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View Full Version : Rick says no Ronnie tomorrow either



Shade
11-09-2004, 11:42 PM
He said it's some kind of "situation" that arose yesterday that was having a negative effect on the team. :mad:

Hicks
11-09-2004, 11:48 PM
Anyone still feel like playing the denial card with this? :shakehead:

It's a shame this happens.

Doug in CO
11-10-2004, 12:06 AM
This is insane - both the 'situation' and his handling of it - either suspend his *** or play him.

Ragnar
11-10-2004, 12:14 AM
I wish Isiah would have done this a couple of years ago, maybe if he had this would not becoming up now.

I dont mind the way Rick is handeling this at all. It is about time we took a hard line with Ron.

Vescy was saying Ron has decided he will retire in two years to pursue his record company, and that it is becoming a real distraction.

Stryder
11-10-2004, 12:24 AM
So, either suspend him or let him play. Those DNP-CD's are freakin' assinine.

TheSauceMaster
11-10-2004, 12:26 AM
I wish Isiah would have done this a couple of years ago, maybe if he had this would not becoming up now.

I dont mind the way Rick is handeling this at all. It is about time we took a hard line with Ron.

Vescy was saying Ron has decided he will retire in two years to pursue his record company, and that it is becoming a real distraction.

I actually agree with you for once , I think this is something Rick shoulda did last year , Artest will ethier pout and regress or he will grow up and play like he should.

ChicagoJ
11-10-2004, 01:26 AM
No. DNP-CD is the right way to handle this.

But for the next game, Rick should force him to sit on the bench with his teammates. Not on the floor, not in the stands.

Ron's not bigger than the team. He's a helluva player, but he's got to get it into his head that he's one of twelve players, and four coaches, and they all want to win just as much, if not more, than he does.

When he disrespects the team: put him in uniform, leave him on the bench, and tell the team you're playing the guys that are committed to the team.

Its a shame Isiah didn't try that until it was too late, and its a shame Rick only did that for the second half of one game last season. That's a big part of the 'enabling' that's allowed it to get this bad.

Peck
11-10-2004, 01:38 AM
In defense of Thomas, he tried everything. Ron is just a very difficult person to deal with. The hammer doesn't work every time it's used.

Cactus Jax
11-10-2004, 02:50 AM
I think this situation is more serious in terms of Ron's head. This doesn't seem like a total anger issue which leads me to a couple ideas of why he did what he did.

First of all, for anybody who watched the Celtics broadcast, after the game they interviewed him, and all he was talking about was his album. It seemed odd, because he wasn't talking basketball at all, and hopefully some silly dream of being a rap star hasn't crept into his head, and honestly this is the least likely of the scenarios.

The other thing I was thinking about is that he's having a bit of a battle with his own mind about if he wants to be with this type of team or not. I think he is all about winning, and wants to do all that's possible...but he wants to be the man who gets all the praise for it, ala Kobe Bryant...

...Or Jalen Rose the year he got traded. I was thinking maybe a team like the T-Wolves or the Nuggets or the Grizz may be willing to take on a guy like Artest for a similar guy who knows his role, like James Posey of Memphis, or Hassell of Minnesota.

Bball
11-10-2004, 05:39 AM
No. DNP-CD is the right way to handle this.

But for the next game, Rick should force him to sit on the bench with his teammates. Not on the floor, not in the stands.

Ron's not bigger than the team. He's a helluva player, but he's got to get it into his head that he's one of twelve players, and four coaches, and they all want to win just as much, if not more, than he does.

When he disrespects the team: put him in uniform, leave him on the bench, and tell the team you're playing the guys that are committed to the team.

Its a shame Isiah didn't try that until it was too late, and its a shame Rick only did that for the second half of one game last season. That's a big part of the 'enabling' that's allowed it to get this bad.



This way he can't hide behind a phony injury nor can Artest apologists stay too deep in denial.

If letting down his teammates isn't enough to make him think I don't know that letting down his fans may be any more effective. But it can't hurt. Also, his rep and the rumors have to have made their way to every GM in the league so shining a light on this most recent episode probably doesn't make any difference. Only a few people likely still believed the puff pieces and smoke and mirrors stuff anyway.

Of course Artest may not realize that NBA GM's are onto him and may think he's MVP material 'as-is'. But dressing him and stuffing him on the end of the bench with a DNP-CD ends that fantasy for him. If anyone didn't think he was a problem before, they have to think it now.



-Bball

able
11-10-2004, 06:55 AM
What I see here, and elsewhere comes awfully close to bashing imo.

Rick's comment after the game (without the multi-quoted "reason"):


I was impressed that he showed up and supported his teammates. He was dressed and out there. He was behind them, and that's what being a good team member is all about."

Please speculate all you want, but he did not have to be with the team if i read this correct.

FireTheCoach
11-10-2004, 07:56 AM
OK.... I've been an Artest fan since he was @ St. Johns. Only because I saw a real baller but I had no idea what a mental basketcase he was.

I stayed optimistic through all the bad times he had when Isiah was around and blamed his antics on his desire to win but being on a mediocre team.

That all changed in the ECF last season. His childlike behaviour totally offsets his basketball skills IMHO. I've got a couple Artest jerseys for sale..... cheap too. Trade his *** ASAP and move on with a team of PROFESSIONAL basketball players.

FTC

Fool
11-10-2004, 09:34 AM
I'm not sure a coach can force a player to sit on the bench instead of the floor. I mean, if Rick "commands" it and Artest still sits on the floor what is Rick going to do? A coach can keep a guy off the court because of NBA rules but I don't know that he can do anything but send the guy to the locker room if he doesn't sit in a chair. And even then, if Artest doesn't go, then what? Security?





I was impressed that he showed up and supported his teammates. He was dressed and out there. He was behind them, and that's what being a good team member is all about."

Please speculate all you want, but he did not have to be with the team if i read this correct.

I agree that the quote implies that Artest had the option (and ultimately he does have the option as he can always not show up to the game/leave the arena whenever he wants). But its also "the right thing to say" if you are the coach. Even when you are punishing a player you find a way to praise him to the media. So while it might be absolutely true (Rick might have given Ron the choice) it could also just be necessarily true (in essense Rick could be saying, "Well, he didn't walk out of the arena.").

beast23
11-10-2004, 10:03 AM
Seems like everytime something flashes up now, it fans the flames and folks come out of the woodwork and bash the hell out of Artest.

When he falls back into line and is making major contributions to a winning team, folks are suddenly quiet, taking great consolation in the wins that their team is compiling.

Jeez. I think that we can all agree that Artest will be a work-in-progress for however long he wishes to play.

[heck, I've been married for 31 years, and although I've become quite domesticated, my wife still refers to me as her work-in-progress.] :)

But I do see that Carlisle and Bird take active roles in trying to bring about a change in Ron.

I have total faith in them in deciding when "enough is enough".

Until then, I'm just going to enjoy my team. Regardless of which 5 guys are on the floor.

sweabs
11-10-2004, 10:26 AM
:disappointed:

I'm so upset with Ronnie. Why can't he just grow up and focus on the game at hand? The guy has so much talent.

I wish I could do what Unclebuck does, and pay no attention to what he says...but this is big...it's becoming a problem...

I'm slowly losing respect for him...especially if he keeps these types of things up.

I hope he realizes what he's doing to his teammates, and his fans. I should have been happy...we beat one of the best teams in the West last night without 3 starters...yet this Artest thing is just killing me.

:disappointed:
That is all.

PaceBalls
11-10-2004, 11:18 AM
Seems like everytime something flashes up now, it fans the flames and folks come out of the woodwork and bash the hell out of Artest.

When he falls back into line and is making major contributions to a winning team, folks are suddenly quiet, taking great consolation in the wins that their team is compiling.

Jeez. I think that we can all agree that Artest will be a work-in-progress for however long he wishes to play.

[heck, I've been married for 31 years, and although I've become quite domesticated, my wife still refers to me as her work-in-progress.] :)

But I do see that Carlisle and Bird take active roles in trying to bring about a change in Ron.

I have total faith in them in deciding when "enough is enough".

Until then, I'm just going to enjoy my team. Regardless of which 5 guys are on the floor.


Ya it's really sick, everyones all of a sudden is Rons personal psychologist with the proper medication they want to force feed him or buy out his contract. Yet no one says a word when he puts up 30 8rbs 5assists 4sts.

Hicks
11-10-2004, 11:23 AM
Don't know why that bothers some of you. When he ****s up, people talk about it. When he doesn't, they don't. Simple enough to me. You won't find anyone saying he's NOT a great player, so when he does well you won't see this kind of attention given to him.

Harddrive7
11-10-2004, 11:35 AM
Don't know why that bothers some of you. When he ****s up, people talk about it. When he doesn't, they don't. Simple enough to me. You won't find anyone saying he's NOT a great player, so when he does well you won't see this kind of attention given to him.



If our team loses because a professional basketball player that makes millions of dollars can't keep his head on straight and gets benched for it then hell yes I'm going to say something.

If that same player gets 30 points for us in a game win or lose the he will get my props for a job well done.

If Ron does things that is detrimental to a team that i love and want to see do well and get that championship banner hung in the rafters that we ALL have been waiting for, then absolutely I'm going to say something.

Yes it bothers me.

Fool
11-10-2004, 11:44 AM
When isn't Artest discussed around here? I guess its been quite the last week or two but did you miss the pre-season "Trade Artest" vs "Don't Trade Artest" campaign?

Indyfan
11-10-2004, 11:45 AM
I think we all were hoping he would be more mature and ready to help take this team to the next level, but this pretty much puts it before us that he is a head case! No sense denying it, at least Rick is taking measures to try and get him under control. Last year he responded well to discipline, but he still blew off Larry for the exit meeting, and completely lost his head in ECF when the pressure got to be too much. Can't blame people for being upset and dissappointed! He has so much talent and could be really great but he also can blow up at anytime. He's a captain and he is acting like a fool.

I don't think we could get close to equal talent value for him with all the baggage, at least not right now. Maybe a year or two down the road. I don't think Larry will want to just give him up for nothing either so I think he'll be our s for a while and maybe Rick can get him to respond. Lets hope so because with him on board, this is one great team! Its pretty good without him too.

Harddrive7
11-10-2004, 11:54 AM
"at least Rick is taking measures to try and get him under control."

Just as Isiah did and we still seem to be here talking about the same thing. I wonder now if Ronnie can be reached?

skyfire
11-10-2004, 11:59 AM
I think the worst thing about this situation is that if Ron played consistantly the way we all know he can play then he could be MVP of the entire league*. When he is playing as part of the team and the team is doing well then Ron does well.

I hope that RC is doing the right thing and it all sorts itself out so i can return to the denial card.

*Presuming Pippen in his prime - esque numbers+ here

Roy Munson
11-10-2004, 12:11 PM
I don't think we could get close to equal talent value for him with all the baggage, at least not right now. Maybe a year or two down the road. I don't think Larry will want to just give him up for nothing either so I think he'll be our s for a while and maybe Rick can get him to respond. Lets hope so because with him on board, this is one great team! Its pretty good without him too.

He's quickly approaching un-tradeable status, if he hasn't reached it already. Clearly, they tried hard over the summer.

There also appears to be a fairly strong effort to cover up his ongoing transgressions so as to not diminish his trade value. It looks like Rick finally reached his limit of patience.

I suppose they could just give him away, but having him focused and on board for 30 or 40 games per season might be better than just giving him away. Looking back at last year's playoffs I'm wondering how frustrated Carlisle must have been that Ron lost focus at the wrong time. It could be that in Carlisle's mind, the Pacers were a Ron Artest-meltdown away from being NBA champions and I wonder if there is some resentment because of that.

ChicagoJ
11-10-2004, 12:17 PM
If this is directed at me - I don't think its appropriate for me to bellyache about the guy in-season unless we have something new to add to his long, long list of disruptions. If anybody is unclear where I stand on this topic, well you must be new around here or I'm on your ignore list aleady anyway.

What do you want me to do, still ***** and moan about him after he and and LBJ have a very memorable, very entertaining matchup in the opener? I may be a bitter old man but I'm not *that* cranky (am I?)

I've never said I don't think he's an outstanding player. I just think he's a even better at disrupting the Pacers behind-the-scenes than he his at disrupting his oppenent's offensive game.

ChicagoJ
11-10-2004, 12:21 PM
-snip-It could be that in Carlisle's mind, the Pacers were a Ron Artest-meltdown away from being NBA champions and I wonder if there is some resentment because of that.


Surely you don't think Rick is *the only one* in the lockerroom that thinks that, do you?

ChicagoJ
11-10-2004, 12:33 PM
No. DNP-CD is the right way to handle this.

But for the next game, Rick should force him to sit on the bench with his teammates. Not on the floor, not in the stands.

Ron's not bigger than the team. He's a helluva player, but he's got to get it into his head that he's one of twelve players, and four coaches, and they all want to win just as much, if not more, than he does.

When he disrespects the team: put him in uniform, leave him on the bench, and tell the team you're playing the guys that are committed to the team.

Its a shame Isiah didn't try that until it was too late, and its a shame Rick only did that for the second half of one game last season. That's a big part of the 'enabling' that's allowed it to get this bad.



This way he can't hide behind a phony injury nor can Artest apologists stay too deep in denial.

If letting down his teammates isn't enough to make him think I don't know that letting down his fans may be any more effective. But it can't hurt. Also, his rep and the rumors have to have made their way to every GM in the league so shining a light on this most recent episode probably doesn't make any difference. Only a few people likely still believed the puff pieces and smoke and mirrors stuff anyway.

Of course Artest may not realize that NBA GM's are onto him and may think he's MVP material 'as-is'. But dressing him and stuffing him on the end of the bench with a DNP-CD ends that fantasy for him. If anyone didn't think he was a problem before, they have to think it now.



-Bball



I wanted to add one thing to further de-bunk the myth that the Pacers could somehow help Ron's trade value by covering up his disruptions...

As Vecsey said last night, he's actually matured quite a bit from his Chicago days. But don't think for second that loose-lipped Krause hasn't let all the secrets out to the other GMs around the league.

They may know he's making progress, but they also have seen and heard what he's capable of doing to disrupt the team he's playing for, and I'm sure in the back of thier heads many of them are saying what Jerry West basically said last summer, "I don't really want him on my team, period."

Harddrive7
11-10-2004, 12:40 PM
Pat Riley said at one time that he wished that he had 7 Artest's on his team. Will he take at least one now?

ChicagoJ
11-10-2004, 01:00 PM
Well, that's the flip side to it, you've got a few egomaniacs on the coaching/ management side that also believe they could be "just the right coach to get him under control."

McKeyFan
11-10-2004, 01:57 PM
Pat Riley said at one time that he wished that he had 7 Artest's on his team. Will he take at least one now?

There's a scary thought: Shaq, Wade, and Artest.:mad:

TheSauceMaster
11-10-2004, 02:00 PM
I don't think we could get close to equal talent value for him with all the baggage, at least not right now. Maybe a year or two down the road. I don't think Larry will want to just give him up for nothing either so I think he'll be our s for a while and maybe Rick can get him to respond. Lets hope so because with him on board, this is one great team! Its pretty good without him too.

He's quickly approaching un-tradeable status, if he hasn't reached it already. Clearly, they tried hard over the summer.

There also appears to be a fairly strong effort to cover up his ongoing transgressions so as to not diminish his trade value. It looks like Rick finally reached his limit of patience.

I suppose they could just give him away, but having him focused and on board for 30 or 40 games per season might be better than just giving him away. Looking back at last year's playoffs I'm wondering how frustrated Carlisle must have been that Ron lost focus at the wrong time. It could be that in Carlisle's mind, the Pacers were a Ron Artest-meltdown away from being NBA champions and I wonder if there is some resentment because of that.


Why Blame Artest ? Rick clearly had the power to do the same last year but he didn't , so point fingers a Rick too for not doing this last year when problems came up with Ron.

Also you may want to note Bird said Artest was not the only team member to have problems with the playoff run last year , he didn't say names of who else ...but he did say other players on the team.

It's not like the Pacers are the first team in NBA history to have a meltdown in the playoffs , we are a very young team and I think our downfalls of last year will only help us this year.

ChicagoJ
11-10-2004, 02:05 PM
Artest on South Beach? If we're trading him because he's a disruption in little old Indianapolis, I wouldn't worry about him being in Miami.

Shaq v. Kobe
or
Shaq v. Artest

Discuss...

Bball
11-10-2004, 02:17 PM
I wanted to add one thing to further de-bunk the myth that the Pacers could somehow help Ron's trade value by covering up his disruptions...

As Vecsey said last night, he's actually matured quite a bit from his Chicago days. But don't think for second that loose-lipped Krause hasn't let all the secrets out to the other GMs around the league.


Knowing how Isiah rarely took the blame for anything bad that happened in Pacerland during his tenure I have to think he's spread a few things about Artest throughout the league trying to separate himself from the problems.

-Bball

Harddrive7
11-10-2004, 02:24 PM
I wanted to add one thing to further de-bunk the myth that the Pacers could somehow help Ron's trade value by covering up his disruptions...

As Vecsey said last night, he's actually matured quite a bit from his Chicago days. But don't think for second that loose-lipped Krause hasn't let all the secrets out to the other GMs around the league.


Knowing how Isiah rarely took the blame for anything bad that happened in Pacerland during his tenure I have to think he's spread a few things about Artest throughout the league trying to separate himself from the problems.

-Bball




If Isiah did anything like that would he be trying to seperate himself or set himself up to take Ron off the Pacers hands one day? Would Isiah want him? seems like a perfect fit to me. Being in NY and all.

Hicks
11-10-2004, 03:46 PM
Don't know why that bothers some of you. When he ****s up, people talk about it. When he doesn't, they don't. Simple enough to me. You won't find anyone saying he's NOT a great player, so when he does well you won't see this kind of attention given to him.



If our team loses because a professional basketball player that makes millions of dollars can't keep his head on straight and gets benched for it then hell yes I'm going to say something.

If that same player gets 30 points for us in a game win or lose the he will get my props for a job well done.

If Ron does things that is detrimental to a team that i love and want to see do well and get that championship banner hung in the rafters that we ALL have been waiting for, then absolutely I'm going to say something.

Yes it bothers me.



Sorry, guess I wasn't clear enough. When I was talking about anyone being bothered, I was referring to those that get bothered by those like you, myself, or Jay who point it out when he screws up. I agree with you, that when Ron does this it bothers me too.

DisplacedKnick
11-10-2004, 03:59 PM
"at least Rick is taking measures to try and get him under control."

Just as Isiah did and we still seem to be here talking about the same thing. I wonder now if Ronnie can be reached?

Isiah did?

After the NY incident where he ripped the camera from the guy's shoulder and trashed it Isiah said he didn't see why Artest should be suspended and he loved the passion he brought to the game.

After the Pat Riley/Miami Heat incident Isiah said he didn't see why Artest should be suspended and he loved the passion he brought to the game.

When Ron was getting suspended for flagrants Isiah said the NBA was picking on Ron - as opposed to how Byron Scott handled the similar K-Mart problem by saying that Kenyon WAS bing watched more closely and called more tightly than other players but he'd have to be aware of that and adjust - and he'd brought all that scrutiny on himself by his actions.

Isiah ignored the problem just like he ignored Jalen Rose hanging around in the backcourt conversing with refs while the other team went down the court on a 3-on-1 break.

It wasn't until Artest trashed the Pacers locker room that he got a one-game suspension - and IIRC, Donnie Wlash had a hand in making even that much happen.

I fail to see where Isiah did much of anything except make excuses for his behavior.

Shade
11-10-2004, 06:00 PM
No trades for Ron until after the season. I still think we need him here to get that ring this year.

I'll reserve judgment on him until then.

McKeyFan
11-10-2004, 11:14 PM
"I fail to see where Isiah did much of anything except make excuses for his behavior."

Good points, Rimfire. That's about the only thing in this depressing episode that gives me a little hope. Perhaps, just perhaps, the strong leadership of Carlisle and Bird will be a difference-maker for Ron.