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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
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Rule #6

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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Article about Zone Defense usage

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  • #1

    Article about Zone Defense usage

    Here's an article about the usage of the Zone Defense in the NBA...one of the many Teams that use it are the Warriors

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baske...Top+Stories%29

    The zone defense has found its place in the NBA

    By Jeff Zillgitt, USA TODAY

    During the Western Conference finals two seasons ago, then-Los Angeles Lakers coach Phil Jackson derided, in his unique way, the Phoenix Suns' use of the zone defense.

    Suns coach Alvin Gentry played along. "If we have to play our girlie zone, as somebody said, we'll play our girlie zone," he said. "We're going to do whatever we have to do to win."

    There is a certain disdain for zone defenses. "Zone is usually an admission that you're not as good as the other team," TNT analyst and former Suns general manager Steve Kerr said.

    Zone defense makes players guard an area on the court, not a specific player. It's become more than a gimmick if not quite a mainstay defense since being allowed in a 2001-02 rule change. NBA executives thought the game had become mired in one-on-one and two-on-two isolation on one side of the court while players on the opposite side essentially watched.

    Teams switch to zone to slow an efficient offense, give a different look, force a bad shooting team into taking outside shots or to limit a dominant big man. It can also help a player in foul trouble stay on the court.

    There are drawbacks. Good shooters can quickly get a team out of zone with three-pointers. It's also more difficult to box out for rebounds when a defender is not guarding a specific player.

    There is one exception in the NBA to a traditional zone: defenders cannot stay in the lane for more than three seconds at a time if they are not actively guarding an opponent. The result is a technical foul for defensive three seconds. Allowing zone, in theory, creates a more fluid game.

    The Golden State Warriors play zone 10.3% of the time, followed by the Charlotte Bobcats (9.3%) and Toronto Raptors (7.5%), according to Synergy Sports, which tracks every NBA play and provides in-depth statistical analysis.

    The Atlanta Hawks face zone defenses the most, on 9.2% of their possessions, followed by the Miami Heat (8.8%), Bobcats (8.3%) and Oklahoma City Thunder (7.5%).

    It's no coincidence the Heat and Thunder face zones. "Those might be the two most athletic teams," Kerr said.

    Zone defenses have a tendency to make offenses stationary, and teams such as the Heat and Thunder are much better with player and ball movement. Settling for jump shots instead of attacking the middle of the zone is often an offense's downfall.

    Zones were used to disrupt the Heat in last year's NBA Finals. The Dallas Mavericks played it just enough to limit what they did offensively.

    Raptors coach Dwane Casey, an assistant for the Mavericks last season, is credited with designing Dallas' zone. Casey said he uses it less as a change of pace and more like baseball's Eephus pitch — a junk pitch even slower than a changeup aimed at flustering the batter and keeping him off balance.

    "You've got to be a good man-to-man team in the NBA before you start putting in the zone," Casey said. "The zone we have is based on man-to-man principles more than zone principles.

    "I didn't think about putting in zone in Toronto until our man (defense) was solid. I didn't want to distort the idea and say, 'Hey, we can play zone if things don't work out.' Our rock has to be our man-to-man."

    The Hawks, when they beat the Heat on Jan. 2, used zone on 25 of 90 defensive possessions, Synergy says. Miami scored on 11 of those possessions.

    The Heat are ranked 20th against the zone, according to Synergy. They are No. 4 against a man-to-man.

    But holes in a zone can be found. "I tell our guys, 'We don't know exactly where it's going to be. It's your basketball IQ that has to figure it out,' " Thunder coach Scott Brooks said.

    The next key to beating the zone in half-court sets is universal. Find a versatile player who can dribble, drive or shoot flashing to the middle of the foul line. That forces the zone to collapse on the ballhandler, opening options: an open shot or drive to the basket, shooters on the perimeter or post players down low.

    Zones remain divisive. NBA TV analyst Steve Smith, a former All-Star, said he would outlaw it, arguing that players who can't guard a man should get off the court or get help. "You put in zone, you take away stars," he said. "It takes away from what the NBA game was."

    Kerr objected. He loves the added strategy of the zone.

    "If a team goes zone, you have to bring your shooters on the floor," he said. "If you're too small at the other end with your shooters, you have to figure out a countermove defensively. Maybe you press, maybe you trap with speed.

    "Whatever it is, it's the coach's job to figure out. That's what I love about the game, the back and forth."
    Given what we saw what the Kings do to us in the 4th QTR, is it good or bad that the Warrior use Zone Defense enough to possibly disrupt our offense?

    How do you beat a ZONE defense?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Article about Zone Defense usage

    Originally posted by CableKC View Post
    How do you beat a ZONE defense?
    Hit your shots. Prevent second- and third- chance shots at the other end.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Article about Zone Defense usage

      You've got to get the zone moving by attacking it. How you do it really doesn't matter. There isn't just one way to do it.

      You either gotta swing the ball side to side to get the defense to move, and create more open spaces, or you've got to attack the space inbetween two defenders off the dribble and then pass the ball.

      You've got to get the zone moving though. A continuous movement. Once you receive a pass, you've either gotta put the ball on the floor and attack, or pass the ball. The longer it's in your hands, the less effective you are with the ball.
      “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Article about Zone Defense usage

        Simple. Hi-Low can work wonders. Having West at the Hi and Danny at the Low.

        The Triangle could work as well. Do not treat the zone like colleges do. They have the shot clock to be patient and swing the ball. With 24 seconds it is not wise to swing from side to side to find a chink in the armour.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Article about Zone Defense usage

          Beat your man off the dribble from the top, making the low zone man have to step up, and dish it, or if he doesn't step up, pull up jumper. I think that'd beat it.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Article about Zone Defense usage

            Originally posted by BillS View Post
            Hit your shots. Prevent second- and third- chance shots at the other end.
            Let's see, we're near the bottom when it comes to scoring and shooting....strike 1. Hmm....we're top 3 in total rebounding, #10 in Defensive rebounding ( where's Murphy when you need him? ) and top 3 in Offensive rebounding". Not sure how well we are going to do tomorrow. I don't see Foster as the end-all-be-all when it comes to rebounding for the Team...but I'm not so sure that Amundson is the answer either.
            Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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            • #7
              Re: Article about Zone Defense usage

              I really just want Danny, Paul, and Jones to shut down Rush.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Article about Zone Defense usage

                I might even argue that last night the defense the Kings played in the fourth quarter was almost less of a zone as it was a zone trap. They were very aggressive trapping the ball and getting out to the shooters. It certainly was not a soft zone at all.

                Maybe I would need to watch the 4th quarter again, but it wasn't your normal zone IMo

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Article about Zone Defense usage

                  Originally posted by Major Cold View Post
                  I really just want Danny, Paul, and Jones to shut down Rush.
                  I'm going to the game tomorrow....so I actually want them to win the game. Shutting down BRush would be icing on the cake.
                  Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Article about Zone Defense usage

                    Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                    I might even argue that last night the defense the Kings played in the fourth quarter was almost less of a zone as it was a zone trap. They were very aggressive trapping the ball and getting out to the shooters. It certainly was not a soft zone at all.

                    Maybe I would need to watch the 4th quarter again, but it wasn't your normal zone IMo
                    Is this a new concept?

                    or

                    Did Keith Smart just invent this defense out of thin air?
                    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Article about Zone Defense usage

                      Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                      Is this a new concept?

                      or

                      Did Keith Smart just invent this defense out of thin air?
                      I don't think there is anything new to it, its just designed to force you into really bad shots. They were sending 2 players every time the ball was passed. Basically preventing any offensive rhythm.
                      You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Article about Zone Defense usage

                        Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                        Is this a new concept?

                        or

                        Did Keith Smart just invent this defense out of thin air?
                        No not at all, high school and college teams play that kind of zone all of the time.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Article about Zone Defense usage

                          It's really not hard to beat a zone at all.. Why you do think they run it so rarely? When you run it a lot it comes easier and easier to beat it because the defense becomes predictable. I play basketball on Sunday's with a big group of guys and one of the teams always seems to play a zone. It's pretty easy to pick a zone apart though, even one that's been practiced. Good shooting is one way and its the way everyone brings out.. But that's not even the best way. You really need to be slashing. Slash right in between the zones, defenders will collapse on you, or ignore you and blame the other zone, but more often than not you will get mugged.. Which is exactly what you want. Because then you will have at least one teammate wide open. And if you run your offense effectively and smart, you can normally get a close open shot, if not a layup. Obviously its not as easy in the NBA but the fundamentals are the same.

                          Pacers just failed to do those things last night.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Article about Zone Defense usage

                            Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                            Here's an article about the usage of the Zone Defense in the NBA...one of the many Teams that use it are the Warriors

                            http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baske...Top+Stories%29



                            Given what we saw what the Kings do to us in the 4th QTR, is it good or bad that the Warrior use Zone Defense enough to possibly disrupt our offense?

                            How do you beat a ZONE defense?
                            dribble into the gaps, the defense has to collapse. if they dont you are in the middle of the key one on one.. if they do, at least one person will be wide open. problem is noone plays aggressive against zones. you dribble into the gaps in a zone, theyll call it off in 5 possessions... on any level.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Article about Zone Defense usage

                              Originally posted by BillS View Post
                              Hit your shots. Prevent second- and third- chance shots at the other end.
                              when you tell a team "hit shots and youll beat the zone," youre setting them upf or failure.

                              Comment

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