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vnzla81
12-16-2011, 07:43 PM
Again I don't think is crazy to suggest to bring Dwest of the bench and leave Tyler in the starting unit because of his defense.

vnzla81
12-16-2011, 08:48 PM
Tyler is going to be hard to keep off of the court this year! His offensive and defensive game have both improved.

There is a reason why I think he should start, he could get starting power forwards in foul trouble, way better than getting bench players in foul trouble, his defense is also pretty good.

vnzla81
12-16-2011, 09:28 PM
BTW, the way Tyler plays I'm really getting to wonder why we thought PF was an area of weakness. He's a better player than Carlos Boozer right now. That's right.

He is probably better than West too, his impact on the team overall is better.

vnzla81
12-16-2011, 09:39 PM
For those in the "we didnt need to get West" group, who was going to be out backup 4/5?

I think he could be our 6th man, Hill,Rush,PG?, West,Foster could be a good unit, pick and roll all day for Hill and West.

BlueNGold
12-16-2011, 09:40 PM
For those in the "we didnt need to get West" group, who was going to be out backup 4/5?

I'm not complaining. We need the talent. I just have serious doubts that PF was the area of greatest weakness. We have a pretty balanced team talent wise IMO...with C being the biggest area of concern.

vnzla81
12-16-2011, 09:45 PM
Reading too much into the starter title. Everything about Tyler says 6th man. Its an awesome role for his energy and style of play that still nets him 25-30 minutes a game. A healthy David West is an all star.

I'm not reading too much into the starting title, I think Hans is needed to put starting power forwards in foul trouble, his defense and hustle is also needed in the 1st unit I think.

vnzla81
12-17-2011, 12:30 PM
What exactly are you trying to accomplish here?


A drum solo. Mind is made up until West proves him wrong. If he can.

My mind is not made up at all, I hated the signing but like I said before I've have accepted that West is going to be on the team and I want him to do well, what I'm not going to accept is when people tell me that I'm crazy for suggesting to start Tyler over West because West is an "all star" or when somebody talks about West numbers been inflated because of CP3(reasonable) and then everybody gets all mad because "how dare you think CP3 inflated his numbers"? Again I'm not "hating" I am actually truly hoping that the guy is back to his old self, but because of that I'm not going to ignore all the obstacles that he needs to go through.

xBulletproof
12-20-2011, 09:53 PM
If Hibbert plays like a vagina all year, I'd rather see West start with Tyler.

graphic-er
12-20-2011, 10:13 PM
Tyler Hansbrough = equals this years Kevin Love.

vnzla81
12-21-2011, 12:29 PM
Calling my shots...David West is our.. back up power forward, yes if Tyler keeps playing the way he is playing there is not reason for him not to be the starter, I am really hoping that Hill starts playing better so we can send DC to the bench with West making our second unit one of the strongest second units in the NBA.


1st unit: Hill,PG,DG,Tyler,Roy

2nd unit: DC,Lance,DJ,West and Foster.

vnzla81
12-21-2011, 02:31 PM
I am going to say it again, Tyler should be the starter, his defense and hustle is needed with Roy as the starting Center.




http://www.nba.com/pacers/caught_web_indiana_pacers_hansbrough_ready_2011_12 _21.html

Hansbrough showing he's ready for whatever awaits

Dec. 21, 2011 -- Starting is not in the cards for Tyler Hansbrough. As you might expect, that hasn't stopped him from going all-in every time he steps on the court.

The brightest spot in the Pacers' two preseason losses to Chicago, Hansbrough led the team in minutes, scoring and rebounding in both games, averaging 21.5 points and 12.0 boards. Starting at power forward while David West gets acclimated to the team and regains his game legs, Hansbrough knows his days in the lineup are numbered.

Once West is fully ready to go, Hansbrough will head to the bench. Make that the second unit. Hansbrough has little intention of sitting, regardless of role.

"I don't plan on sitting on the bench," he said. "I think I have a lot to contribute to this team. I'm going to come out here and prove myself and hopefully we'll see what happens."

What may evolve is the pairing of West and Hansbrough with some frequency, especially when matched up against the increasing number of teams that lack a traditional center. With Roy Hibbert struggling in Chicago Tuesday night, the two power forwards combined for 10 points in a 14-6 burst that cut an 18-point deficit to 76-66 late in the third period.

Hansbrough finished that game with 24 points and 13 rebounds. West, making his first preseason appearance off the bench, played 15 minutes and had eight points and four rebounds.

"I expect to come in here and play with David," Hansbrough said. "I think he's a good player to learn a lot from. He's been in the league a long time. He's a great addition to the team. Obviously, what he brings to the court is going to help us and makes our team that much deeper. Hopefully it will pay off and we'll get into the playoffs and make a better run."

Though this is Hansbrough's third NBA season and he entered the league as a four-year college standout at North Carolina, he is far from a finished product. Injuries and health issues sidetracked his ability to prepare for each of the past two seasons.

Once he found his rhythm in 2009-10, he began to emerge as a consistently productive force, starting the final 19 games and all five against the Bulls in the first round of the playoffs. In the 16 games when he played at least 30 minutes, Hansbrough averaged 19.7 points and 7.9 rebounds and shot .506 from the field.

"This offseason has been particularly important to me because it's my first healthy offseason," Hansbrough said. "I've actually had time to train and prepare like I want to. I really worked on my left hand and my ability to make post moves and kind of expanded my range a little bit. I'm excited about it.

"People say if you're a four-year guy you are what you are but the NBA is much different than college. There's so much of a learning curve. The game's different, it's played a lot different. There's things you have to learn and pick up on to really get a grasp and a feel for the NBA."

Since West was signed, Coach Frank Vogel has maintained Hansbrough's role may change but his prominence within the rotation will not. In fact, he could be even more of an offensive focal point with the second unit, which needs scoring punch from the frontcourt. The other reserve big men -- Jeff Foster, Lou Amundson and Jeff Pendergraph -- all play with high energy but are not offensive threats.

"He plays at one speed," Vogel said of Hansbrough. "From day one of training camp he didn't look like he was coming out of a lockout. He's got a motor like doesn't exist in this league. He's terrific."

Whenever he enters a game, and whomever he joins on the floor, Hansbrough will play as he always has -- like every possession might be his last. And that quality, more than anything else, assures of him of a prominent role.

"I feel like I've done some things here to prove my point that I can help us win," he said. "Whatever they see my role as, I'll do that and go from there."

glazedham42
12-21-2011, 02:49 PM
If Tyler continues this type of production, only a moron would keep him on the bench. When a guy shows you that he can get 20 and 10 on a consistent basis, you have to put him on the court. If that means that it cuts into Roy's time, then so be it. Roy's stat sheet looked pretty anemic the first two games.

Peck
12-21-2011, 03:00 PM
I've got a solution to the min. distribution problem.

Start West & Tyler & let Roy get whatever min. he can when they are not being given to Lou, Jeff or Jeff.

I'm only partially joking.

vnzla81
12-21-2011, 03:11 PM
Just because he doesn't start doesn't mean it's because he's not important.

This is what Tyler was going to bring in the first place. Energy, scoring, etc. off the bench.

Again is not about just starting is about who is the best fit to play next to Hibbert and that guy is Tyler, his hustle, rebounding and defense is need it next to Roy, we like or not Roy is a soft center and he needs a tough player next to him.

Regarding West, I don't think he is as soft as Hibbert but he is for sure not as tough as Hansbrough, the ideal combination of players I think should be as follow:

1st unit: Hill,PG,Danny,Tyler,Roy

2nd unit: DC,Lance,DJ,West,Foster/Lou/Pendergraph.

With the 1st unit you get a defensive minded point guard that could guard any starting point guard and can also control the tempo, Paul George could get more touches because DC would be on the bench.

In the second unit our main guys would be DC and West, who knows maybe implement the same offense they were running in NO so they can kill teams in the pick and roll? As centers Lou and Foster would provided the hustle and defense that's need it in the second unit, again, we should have one hustle guy in the game at all times playing two non hustle players at the same time is not a good idea IMHO, the combinations should be Tyler/Roy, West/Foster, Tyler/West, West/Lou,Lou/Roy.

Midcoasted
12-21-2011, 03:27 PM
At this point in their careers, Tyler is the better player. The better player should start. I also liked what I saw when Hansbrough and West were on the floor at the same time. They can play next to each other for spurts. Some posters led me to believe that was not possible, and I'm pleasantly surprised that Hansbrough can man the PF and West the center at times.

Everyone says Hansbrough should be on the bench because we need a good bench. But that is a slap in the face to the best player on our team. Your best overall player starts, period. Would West not make a great 6th man backing up Hibbert and Hansbrough? Pretty damn good 6th man to me...

Hansbrough has earned the starting spot. I don't think West will ever be able to outplay Hansbrough on this team. West is a new player and Hansbrough has not done a single thing to warrant pulling him as a starter in favor of a guy we just signed that is still learning and recovering from a very serious injury.

trs72
12-21-2011, 03:33 PM
As soon as we signed D West I told my wife the plan was for Tyler to come off the bench, but that they would have a hard time keeping him out of the starting lineup. We need Tyler's toughness in the starting rotation. Honestly how many guys in this league would rather guard Tyler than West?, I doubt nobody. Roy is a fake tough guy, we need Tyler out there to make up for Roy being a wussy. Sorry Hibbert fans but its the truth and this is coming from a Hibbert fan and was pulling for the Pacers to get him in the draft. 7'2 struggles to rebound and when he gets up against a great defender in Noah he disapears all together. If I was the coach I would put Tyler on one side and foster on the other side of Roy in practice and have them just pound the crap out of him until he learned to be a man. By the end of practice he would either be crying or ready to take a swing at someone.

The key to are season is Hibbert and thats why I am so down on him because when he gets up against a competent defender who plays tough he does a dissapearing act.

Richard_Skull
12-21-2011, 03:44 PM
Tyler is going to be our Ginobli (sp?). Arguably the best player on the team, but comes of the bench. I also believe that's a big reason SA was so good.

Edit: Pretty much what Beezer said.

vnzla81
12-25-2011, 10:42 AM
So what exactly has West done for the last 8 years? Any great playoff moments to cite? Any rings?

See this is what's wrong with the NBA. People think X player is better because he puts up better stats than Y. Well I hate to break it to you, but every year, 29 teams flame out and go home losers like the rest. So there can only be one true champion every year. All 29 other teams flame out and are failures to some degree.

So this argument is about winning. No one, based off of stats alone, can build a championship team. What player gives you the best chance to win? I would say up to this point in their overall BASKETBALL careers, Hansbrough is the fiercer competitor and has locked himself into the basketball hall of fame because of his ability to help his team win championships at UNC. Has West ever been a part of a championship team past the high school level?

Is West going to the hall for his 8 years in the NBA? How much of those stats were "empty" just like Troy Murphy's were for many years here? How much did West help the Hornets be a contender? Or was West just feeding off of CP3 and simply scoring "shallow" points like Murphy did?

How can anyone prove one way or the other who truly is the better player? So was Troy Murphy really an All-star caliber player his last year here before we traded him? His stats would leave you to believe so...And this is what everyone is basing how West is "better" than Hansbrough with. Because he has basically put up 17 and 8 through his career in 35-40 minutes per game.

So refute me with some evidence or just a hypothetical argument like mine, or hell ignore me I don't care. I don't hate West. I want him to be good for us. I'm just not so blind to the game and what it takes to win a championship that I'm going to look at stats to decide who the better player is at this point. Most people on this board are looking at West's stats and crowning him the superior player without ever seeing him step on the floor in a regular season game as an Indiana Pacer.

So you my friend, are the one taking the Troy Murphy stance. You are arguing West is the better player when there is no way you have seen him play more than a handful of games in his career. You are basing this off of stats alone like people did with Murphy. You are taking the Murphy stance, not I, and you are crowning West the second coming because of his "stats" through his 8 year career. Not what he has done in the playoffs when the lights are on the pressure is ramped up.

Does anyone here not realize that West's efficiency has dropped a lot when the playoffs start? He doesn't even shoot over 50 percent? Becomes slightly less efficient rebounding the ball? It's right there in the stats...The guy sure doesn't get better when the lights come one...I'd say Hansbrough does...

Good post, too bad so many people don't understand what are you talking about here and instead call you a "hater", people forget that West got to play in a team with CP3(superstar), Tyson Chandler(all star) and Peja(former all star) and couldn't do anything, now people expect him many years later and after a knee injury to put the Pacers in his back and carry them to the promise land, I'm sorry but I don't see that happening.

vnzla81
12-25-2011, 10:50 AM
Unless his health is a serious problem, some of you are going to be surprised by David West. I can't believe how dismissive some of you are of how good he's been and could easily still be.

I think he is going to be good but not as good as many people here expect him to be, I don't think he is going to be as good as his 10mil dollars a year paycheck either, I could see him helping but not as much, I think he is going to average like 14 and 5, good but not all star or difference maker good.

vnzla81
01-13-2012, 11:17 AM
NO, first of all hate is not the right word, dislike is the correct one and secondly; the Hansbrough worshipping here of some has reached levels that makes you dislike the fellow to begin with.

If it was up to the Tyler-Fans he would be starting over West or some even suggested he play over Roy; now tell me, what does that look like to you?

Tyler is a nice bench player, IF HE STAYS within himself and his role.

He is not nor will he be starter material a la West or Hibbert..

That is not a bad thing, but his fans on this board make it so.

And don't you dare compare him to DD, because DD played with finesse and smarts whilst being tough. So far Hans has acted tough, but no finess and no smarts.

Mcbob fans like you do the same thing. :potkettle:

And I would like to see a post were somebody said that Tyler should play in front of Hibbert, I'm sorry but I call :bs: on that one.

able
01-15-2012, 09:13 AM
If you want I will gladly post some more examples of what you say was never said!

do i love it when you have a nice archive.

Kid Minneapolis
01-15-2012, 10:19 AM
Tryin to figure out what would make an admin post a spiteful post like this.

Two people making off-hand (semi-joking) comments that Roy should sit in favor of Hansbrough constitutes a majority? lol... I hardly think 99% of people on this board ever did or currently do believe Hansbrough should take Hibbert's place in the starting line-up.

EDIT: However, if Roy came out and played like he did for large parts of the middle of last season, I might have entertained the idea. :P Luckily Frank Vogel happened.

vnzla81
01-15-2012, 10:47 AM
If you want I will gladly post some more examples of what you say was never said!

do i love it when you have a nice archive.

:laugh: Man I thought somebody stole my account.

Regarding all the post that you quoted from me, I am still backing that up, is really West playing that much better than Tyler? same defense(bad defense) similar rebounding and similar points per game, yes I like the veteran dealership off the court but other than that meh, I have been right about West so far, Tyler is making 2mil and West is making 10mil, give me the guy with the same productivity for 8mil less.

I also forgot that we are in PD :laugh: of course some crazy people are going to say some crazy things, my bad for thinking that everybody here is rational, I should have known better after reading the "Westbrook thread" and the "we should bench Danny Granger thread" by bad on that one Able ;)

pacer4ever
01-15-2012, 11:16 AM
Again I don't think is crazy to suggest to bring Dwest of the bench and leave Tyler in the starting unit because of his defense.

:eek: LOL really you wanted to bench West because Tyler's defense is better :laugh:

West is a much better defender than Tyler IMO his 1v1 defense and help defense especially is much better than Tyler's


Tyler Hansbrough = equals this years Kevin Love.

This is just stupid talk comparing Klove to Tyler is just poor judgment

the only thing that is comparable is they both play with energy besides that Klove is better in every other area of the game defense he is better passing he is 100X better rebounding he is 100X better. Shooting and post game he is much better that is unfair to Tyler to compare him to IMO a future HOFer

duke dynamite
01-15-2012, 11:24 AM
I can't say that starting Tyler over West is a completely bad idea, but I really love how Tyler "glues" the second unit together. West is good. I like him. I like Tyler. But I think what we have going here is working. Working VERY well. Maybe we can have him starting in situational reasons, but I can't see when that could happen.

vnzla81
01-15-2012, 11:27 AM
I can't say that starting Tyler over West is a completely bad idea, but I really love how Tyler "glues" the second unit together. West is good. I like him. I like Tyler. But I think what we have going here is working. Working VERY well. Maybe we can have him starting in situational reasons, but I can't see when that could happen.

Yep at this moment I wouldn't want to mess up with the starting unit, either way Tyler is getting most of the minutes because West obviously is still trying to get in shape.

JEM
01-15-2012, 11:28 AM
I think Tyler is good enough to start but I want to wait for a bit more to see if West will get better or stay the same. Right now I think both are similar but I think Tyler plays better defense because alot of the time West looks really slow out there.

vnzla81
01-15-2012, 11:32 AM
:eek: LOL really you wanted to bench West because Tyler's defense is better :laugh:

West is a much better defender than Tyler IMO his 1v1 defense and help defense especially is much better than Tyler's



Both Tyler and West are bad at rotating on defense, one is better than the other one in different areas on defense, but in general both are average at best.

By the way I don't know if you saw Tyler's defense yesterday, he stole the ball from Bass hands and KG, he also had Ray Allen in front of him at one time and was stuck to him not letting him do anything, so yeah I don't think is that ridiculous.

Trader Joe
01-15-2012, 11:35 AM
I really doubt Tyler cares whether or not he starts. And that's all that really matters to me. He gets to come in and beat the **** out of either a tired starter or a backup.

CreekShow
01-15-2012, 11:36 AM
Everything is going pretty well the way it is. Why change now? If Tyler starts playing out of his mind, and in fact does look like he should be a starter, then so be it, start the guy. He will have earned every bit of starter minutes he gets. Until then, keep him where he is at. I mean its not like hes spoken about wanting to be traded bc on non starter minutes. He knows his role, and thats providing huge min off the bench, dominating second units.

I say keep things the way they are, and I might be the biggest Hansbrough fan on this board. I was estatic when Pacers drafted him

pacer4ever
01-15-2012, 11:36 AM
Again I don't think is crazy to suggest to bring Dwest of the bench and leave Tyler in the starting unit because of his defense.


Both Tyler and West are bad at rotating on defense, one is better than the other one in different areas on defense, but in general both are average at best.

yes I agree they are both average or close to it Tyler is worse IMO though. But you said Tyler would start over West because of his defense and I just find that hilarious

vnzla81
01-15-2012, 11:38 AM
I really doubt Tyler cares whether or not he starts. And that's all that really matters to me. He gets to come in and beat the **** out of either a tired starter or a backup.

I actually think he is using that as motivation but yeah I agree with you.

Noodle
01-15-2012, 11:46 AM
West is a much better defender than Tyler IMO his 1v1 defense and help defense especially is much better than Tyler's

I can't begin to tell you how many times I have caught myself yelling at the screen because I could see that D. West was falling asleep on rotation. I could see the inevitable dunk or lay-up coming a many seconds before it happened. I really don't know how you could say that David's help defense is better than Tyler's.

duke dynamite
01-15-2012, 11:49 AM
Yep at this moment I wouldn't want to mess up with the starting unit, either way Tyler is getting most of the minutes because West obviously is still trying to get in shape.

I haven't seen anything yet telling me that West isn't in shape.

vnzla81
01-15-2012, 11:49 AM
yes I agree they are both average or close to it Tyler is worse IMO though. But you said Tyler would start over West because of his defense and I just find that hilarious

Maybe hilarious to you but not to me, I still think the same thing, Tyler showed yesterday and the day before yesterday what kind of the defense he is capable of playing, he also showed that last year during the playoffs by shutting Boozer down, while West has been average all his career, either way as many have said here we are good the way we are right now, we need West passing and ball movement in the 1st unit and Tylers offense in the second unit.

Trophy
01-15-2012, 11:51 AM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Tyler is best suited as the Sixth Man on this team. David is worthy of starting. Neither guy has disappointed in their roles.

West has looked good and obviously, he's helped this team out in so many ways. It was the plan all along to have Tyler bring his energy off the bench.

Johanvil
01-15-2012, 11:52 AM
It doesn't really matter who starts,does it?I mean Tyler is averaging 25.7 MPG and West 27MPG.It's not like West is 'stealing' Tyler's minutes and progression.Besides,what TraderJoe said,i completely agree with.


He gets to come in and beat the **** out of either a tired starter or a backup.

vnzla81
01-15-2012, 11:58 AM
I haven't seen anything yet telling me that West isn't in shape.

I have seen West guys out running him a lot of times and Vogel replacing him in the next timeout, that pretty much tells me that he is not in basketball shape yet, even West supporters have been saying the same thing in the game threads, either way I'm not really going to hate on the guy because of it, he didn't play for a long time and this was expected.

pacer4ever
01-15-2012, 12:01 PM
Maybe hilarious to you but not to me, I still think the same thing, Tyler showed yesterday and the day before yesterday what kind of the defense he is capable of playing, he also showed that last year during the playoffs by shutting Boozer down, while West has been average all his career, either way as many have said here we are good the way we are right now, we need West passing and ball movement in the 1st unit and Tylers offense in the second unit.

shutting down Boozer?? You do realize Boozer had turf toe he kind of was useless the whole playoffs because of it.


I do agree with the bold though

pacers74
01-15-2012, 12:03 PM
I also think we should not mess with what we have right now. It is got us to 9-3 and the Philly game we were undermanned.

I also believe Tyler could start, but does not need to right now. When this thread was started back in early December, we did not know that Tyler and West could exist on the court together. The only time I really want one of them playing over the other one is at the end of a close game. We need west in for that he is still a lot more clutch than Tyler.

CreekShow
01-15-2012, 12:09 PM
shutting down Boozer?? You do realize Boozer had turf toe he kind of was useless the whole playoffs because of it.


I do agree with the bold though

Did he have turf toe the first preseason game too?

Tyler > Carlos

vnzla81
01-15-2012, 12:10 PM
shutting down Boozer?? You do realize Boozer had turf toe he kind of was useless the whole playoffs because of it.


I do agree with the bold though

Boozer had "turf toe" and Hans had a cauliflower ear for getting the :censored: knocked out of him so yeah not excuses from either side.

graphic-er
01-15-2012, 12:19 PM
This is just stupid talk comparing Klove to Tyler is just poor judgment

the only thing that is comparable is they both play with energy besides that Klove is better in every other area of the game defense he is better passing he is 100X better rebounding he is 100X better. Shooting and post game he is much better that is unfair to Tyler to compare him to IMO a future HOFer

I only meant this comparison in terms of their hustle and intangibles they bring every night. Sure Love is the superior player. But last year when I watched Love play I always thought, how is he producing these numbers? Its the same way with Tyler, how the heck is he producing these numbers ( that was back when he was getting the starters minutes at the beginning of the season and in preseason)

:rolleyes:

Nuntius
01-15-2012, 12:39 PM
The only time I really want one of them playing over the other one is at the end of a close game. We need west in for that he is still a lot more clutch than Tyler.

West is certainly clutch but Tyler is not a choker either. He did hit those FTs at the Atlanta game. I do agree that David is clutchier though and I'm glad we got both :)

able
01-15-2012, 01:19 PM
Tryin to figure out what would make an admin post a spiteful post like this.

Two people making off-hand (semi-joking) comments that Roy should sit in favor of Hansbrough constitutes a majority? lol... I hardly think 99% of people on this board ever did or currently do believe Hansbrough should take Hibbert's place in the starting line-up.

EDIT: However, if Roy came out and played like he did for large parts of the middle of last season, I might have entertained the idea. :P Luckily Frank Vogel happened.

Spiteful ??????
where was it spiteful ? where did i do anything but answer a challenge he posted?
And no Peck at THAT moment in time was NOT joking, i have known him long enough to know he does not want a soft C under no circumstances, his cry was real :)
and whether or not tyler would have to take it was not the question but read it as you want.

VNZLA raised a flag, i raised and called, that is all
Spitefull would be banning him for showing me up with a BS flag
Don't create a Vesuvius where we just dug a molehil :)

ksuttonjr76
01-15-2012, 01:41 PM
Tryin to figure out what would make an admin post a spiteful post like this.

Two people making off-hand (semi-joking) comments that Roy should sit in favor of Hansbrough constitutes a majority? lol... I hardly think 99% of people on this board ever did or currently do believe Hansbrough should take Hibbert's place in the starting line-up.

EDIT: However, if Roy came out and played like he did for large parts of the middle of last season, I might have entertained the idea. :P Luckily Frank Vogel happened.

I was trying to figure out why vnzla81 was having a conversation by himself, lol.

Major Cold
01-15-2012, 02:26 PM
We need ball movement in the starting lineup. And Tyler is just now getting that concept. He would "get his" more often off of the bench with Hill and other bench players.

Hoop
01-15-2012, 05:25 PM
West is the superior player, he does things that don't always show up on on the stat sheet. West has not been near as good as he will be, but he has been very clutch for us. I think West is only at about 75%, it takes time coming back from a major knee injury.

The lack of a proper training camp has probably hurt West more than most of the players. They haven't said it, but it's my believe that the coaches are limiting West's minutes early in the season.

I love what Tyler brings, but he's in the role he needs to be in right now. The thing that has impressed me about Tyler, is he still has very little real NBA experience. His rookie year was almost a complete waste (injury), his second season was half wasted by JOB's idiotic DNP's, he's still not had a proper training camp. Still there is no doubt he can play crucial minutes and be a main contributor on a really good team.

Peck
01-15-2012, 05:36 PM
In my defense this was said after watching the two pre-season Bulls games.:blush:

Ok, so I'm eating my words about Roy. :footinmou

Mackey_Rose
01-16-2012, 10:43 AM
:laugh: Man I thought somebody stole my account.

Regarding all the post that you quoted from me, I am still backing that up, is really West playing that much better than Tyler? same defense(bad defense) similar rebounding and similar points per game, yes I like the veteran dealership off the court but other than that meh, I have been right about West so far, Tyler is making 2mil and West is making 10mil, give me the guy with the same productivity for 8mil less.

I also forgot that we are in PD :laugh: of course some crazy people are going to say some crazy things, my bad for thinking that everybody here is rational, I should have known better after reading the "Westbrook thread" and the "we should bench Danny Granger thread" by bad on that one Able ;)

West doesn't look like he's completely recovered from his knee injury yet. I wouldn't expect him to be either. I don't expect him to be 100% until next season. Another full offseason should really help him out. He'll probably keep getting better as this season goes along though, and he gets his legs more underneath him.

The reason you don't start Tyler Hansbrough over David West, is the same reason he never should have started last year either. It has nothing to do with the numbers. He just isn't a great fit with the other players that would be around him, compared to how he can play his role off the bench. Putting him in the starting lineup, negatively alters both the first and second units.

When you look at the numbers, it doesn't make any sense either.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=hansbty01&y1=2012&p2=westda01&y2=2012

West has had a horrible start to the season shooting the ball, at only 43.7%. Yet, he's still shooting 5% better than Tyler. On a per-36 basis, he's averaging 14.6 points per game, 9.1 rebounds per game, and 3.2 assists, compared to 16.4 points, 8.6 rebounds, and 0.5 assists for Tyler. Somehow, Tyler has 1 more turnover despite having 25 fewer assists.

The only area where you can really say Tyler has been significantly better, is getting to the free throw line. At 7.1, he's getting 3.5 more attempts per-36 than West is. I think you'd lose a lot of that advantage if you put him in the starting line-up, considering he averaged 5.9 last year, but only 4.2 in games he started. His usage rate probably wouldn't decrease any, because when Tyler plays, he plays the same way no matter who he's with. However, I think it's fair to suggest that against the better/smarter defenders he'd see as a starter, he won't get to the line as much.

No reason to even think about making this change right now. West is the better player, and is the better fit as a starter. Tyler is probably a better scorer off the bench, and should be kept in that role.

ilive4sports
01-16-2012, 11:49 AM
Like mackey said, tyler doesnt fit in with the starters like west does. Tyler is a scorer, let him come off the bench and be just that.