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vnzla81
12-21-2011, 02:31 PM
I am going to say it again, Tyler should be the starter, his defense and hustle is needed with Roy as the starting Center.




http://www.nba.com/pacers/caught_web_indiana_pacers_hansbrough_ready_2011_12 _21.html

Hansbrough showing he's ready for whatever awaits

Dec. 21, 2011 -- Starting is not in the cards for Tyler Hansbrough. As you might expect, that hasn't stopped him from going all-in every time he steps on the court.

The brightest spot in the Pacers' two preseason losses to Chicago, Hansbrough led the team in minutes, scoring and rebounding in both games, averaging 21.5 points and 12.0 boards. Starting at power forward while David West gets acclimated to the team and regains his game legs, Hansbrough knows his days in the lineup are numbered.

Once West is fully ready to go, Hansbrough will head to the bench. Make that the second unit. Hansbrough has little intention of sitting, regardless of role.

"I don't plan on sitting on the bench," he said. "I think I have a lot to contribute to this team. I'm going to come out here and prove myself and hopefully we'll see what happens."

What may evolve is the pairing of West and Hansbrough with some frequency, especially when matched up against the increasing number of teams that lack a traditional center. With Roy Hibbert struggling in Chicago Tuesday night, the two power forwards combined for 10 points in a 14-6 burst that cut an 18-point deficit to 76-66 late in the third period.

Hansbrough finished that game with 24 points and 13 rebounds. West, making his first preseason appearance off the bench, played 15 minutes and had eight points and four rebounds.

"I expect to come in here and play with David," Hansbrough said. "I think he's a good player to learn a lot from. He's been in the league a long time. He's a great addition to the team. Obviously, what he brings to the court is going to help us and makes our team that much deeper. Hopefully it will pay off and we'll get into the playoffs and make a better run."

Though this is Hansbrough's third NBA season and he entered the league as a four-year college standout at North Carolina, he is far from a finished product. Injuries and health issues sidetracked his ability to prepare for each of the past two seasons.

Once he found his rhythm in 2009-10, he began to emerge as a consistently productive force, starting the final 19 games and all five against the Bulls in the first round of the playoffs. In the 16 games when he played at least 30 minutes, Hansbrough averaged 19.7 points and 7.9 rebounds and shot .506 from the field.

"This offseason has been particularly important to me because it's my first healthy offseason," Hansbrough said. "I've actually had time to train and prepare like I want to. I really worked on my left hand and my ability to make post moves and kind of expanded my range a little bit. I'm excited about it.

"People say if you're a four-year guy you are what you are but the NBA is much different than college. There's so much of a learning curve. The game's different, it's played a lot different. There's things you have to learn and pick up on to really get a grasp and a feel for the NBA."

Since West was signed, Coach Frank Vogel has maintained Hansbrough's role may change but his prominence within the rotation will not. In fact, he could be even more of an offensive focal point with the second unit, which needs scoring punch from the frontcourt. The other reserve big men -- Jeff Foster, Lou Amundson and Jeff Pendergraph -- all play with high energy but are not offensive threats.

"He plays at one speed," Vogel said of Hansbrough. "From day one of training camp he didn't look like he was coming out of a lockout. He's got a motor like doesn't exist in this league. He's terrific."

Whenever he enters a game, and whomever he joins on the floor, Hansbrough will play as he always has -- like every possession might be his last. And that quality, more than anything else, assures of him of a prominent role.

"I feel like I've done some things here to prove my point that I can help us win," he said. "Whatever they see my role as, I'll do that and go from there."

glazedham42
12-21-2011, 02:49 PM
If Tyler continues this type of production, only a moron would keep him on the bench. When a guy shows you that he can get 20 and 10 on a consistent basis, you have to put him on the court. If that means that it cuts into Roy's time, then so be it. Roy's stat sheet looked pretty anemic the first two games.

Scot Pollard
12-21-2011, 02:50 PM
Just because he doesn't start doesn't mean it's because he's not important.

This is what Tyler was going to bring in the first place. Energy, scoring, etc. off the bench.

vnzla81
12-21-2011, 03:11 PM
Just because he doesn't start doesn't mean it's because he's not important.

This is what Tyler was going to bring in the first place. Energy, scoring, etc. off the bench.

Again is not about just starting is about who is the best fit to play next to Hibbert and that guy is Tyler, his hustle, rebounding and defense is need it next to Roy, we like or not Roy is a soft center and he needs a tough player next to him.

Regarding West, I don't think he is as soft as Hibbert but he is for sure not as tough as Hansbrough, the ideal combination of players I think should be as follow:

1st unit: Hill,PG,Danny,Tyler,Roy

2nd unit: DC,Lance,DJ,West,Foster/Lou/Pendergraph.

With the 1st unit you get a defensive minded point guard that could guard any starting point guard and can also control the tempo, Paul George could get more touches because DC would be on the bench.

In the second unit our main guys would be DC and West, who knows maybe implement the same offense they were running in NO so they can kill teams in the pick and roll? As centers Lou and Foster would provided the hustle and defense that's need it in the second unit, again, we should have one hustle guy in the game at all times playing two non hustle players at the same time is not a good idea IMHO, the combinations should be Tyler/Roy, West/Foster, Tyler/West, West/Lou,Lou/Roy.

Pacemaker
12-21-2011, 03:19 PM
Tyler is my favorite Pacer right now. :devil:PERIOD:devil:.

Midcoasted
12-21-2011, 03:27 PM
At this point in their careers, Tyler is the better player. The better player should start. I also liked what I saw when Hansbrough and West were on the floor at the same time. They can play next to each other for spurts. Some posters led me to believe that was not possible, and I'm pleasantly surprised that Hansbrough can man the PF and West the center at times.

Everyone says Hansbrough should be on the bench because we need a good bench. But that is a slap in the face to the best player on our team. Your best overall player starts, period. Would West not make a great 6th man backing up Hibbert and Hansbrough? Pretty damn good 6th man to me...

Hansbrough has earned the starting spot. I don't think West will ever be able to outplay Hansbrough on this team. West is a new player and Hansbrough has not done a single thing to warrant pulling him as a starter in favor of a guy we just signed that is still learning and recovering from a very serious injury.

RWB
12-21-2011, 03:31 PM
At this point in their careers, Tyler is the better player. The better player should start.


Have to disagree. Your best players have to finish.....

Midcoasted
12-21-2011, 03:33 PM
Have to disagree. Your best players have to finish.....

I should have said that because I was thinking he needs to be on the floor at the end of games. I just think he should start, get the starters minutes at PF, and finish the games.

trs72
12-21-2011, 03:33 PM
As soon as we signed D West I told my wife the plan was for Tyler to come off the bench, but that they would have a hard time keeping him out of the starting lineup. We need Tyler's toughness in the starting rotation. Honestly how many guys in this league would rather guard Tyler than West?, I doubt nobody. Roy is a fake tough guy, we need Tyler out there to make up for Roy being a wussy. Sorry Hibbert fans but its the truth and this is coming from a Hibbert fan and was pulling for the Pacers to get him in the draft. 7'2 struggles to rebound and when he gets up against a great defender in Noah he disapears all together. If I was the coach I would put Tyler on one side and foster on the other side of Roy in practice and have them just pound the crap out of him until he learned to be a man. By the end of practice he would either be crying or ready to take a swing at someone.

The key to are season is Hibbert and thats why I am so down on him because when he gets up against a competent defender who plays tough he does a dissapearing act.

90'sNBARocked
12-21-2011, 03:41 PM
You dont sign a 8 year Vet , with multiple All-Star apperences to a 10M a year contract to come off the bench

I love Ty for everything he stands for (being counted against, written off etc) however that should not take place of what West has accomplished

As was pointed out here, its no who starts, its who finishes

I envision most situations will have Ty and West on the floor together in the final 5 minutes

beezer615
12-21-2011, 03:41 PM
6th Man candidate for sure if thats how Vogel plays it. Can a teams best player not be on the court at tip-off? I'd say its more important who finishes games than starts them. Manu didn't start, and he may have been the Spurs best player.

I'd like to see what West is able to do for Collison. He hasn't really showed much in preseason yet.

Richard_Skull
12-21-2011, 03:44 PM
Tyler is going to be our Ginobli (sp?). Arguably the best player on the team, but comes of the bench. I also believe that's a big reason SA was so good.

Edit: Pretty much what Beezer said.

Midcoasted
12-21-2011, 03:49 PM
The key to are season is Hibbert and thats why I am so down on him because when he gets up against a competent defender who plays tough he does a dissapearing act.

To be fair, Noah is one of the top tough defensive players in the game. Roy is going to have to progress this year but I think the first two games were a real challenge for him. From what I've watched, Hibbert struggles against Noah more than any other center, even Dwight Howard. Not that Noah is anywhere close to as good as Howard, it's just situationally, Noah seems to be the toughest match-up for Roy in the league.

He is Roy's kryptonite. If Roy can ever consistently outplay Noah, Roy would be an All-star. Because if he could outplay Noah, he could outplay any center in the game one on one. So let's see what Roy does against the other centers not names Noah before we start for sure labeling him soft again this year. He could make strides over the year and finally outplay Noah a game this year. We will just have to wait and see. But I do expect to see him look much improved against softer defensive front courts, and that will be a building block for him.

Midcoasted
12-21-2011, 03:57 PM
You dont sign a 8 year Vet , with multiple All-Star apperences to a 10M a year contract to come off the bench

I love Ty for everything he stands for (being counted against, written off etc) however that should not take place of what West has accomplished

As was pointed out here, its no who starts, its who finishes

I envision most situations will have Ty and West on the floor together in the final 5 minutes

So say it becomes clear that West will never be what he was pre-ACL, and Tyler Hansbrough proves to be the best player on the team, he should still back-up West simply for what West did in the past on another team?

JOB must have flawed the logic of a lot of people on this board. We owe West nothing. We just handed him 10 million dollars to play ball for one year. I really think West fits better as the 6th man because he can back-up both Hansbrough and Hibbert, and I just don't really see Hansbrough being able to back-up Roy other than situationally.

I think we would be a better team with Hansbrough starting and West as the 6th man because West would be the best defender on the bench and he brings a star quality All-star caliber play to the bench. I think it would be an extreme luxury to bring West off the bench, more so than even Hansbrough because West has already earned his stripes with the officials. So that allows us an All-star veteran in Danny starting, and an All-star veteran in West coming off the bench.

And I definitely could see Hansbrough and West on the floor together finishing a few games this year.

RWB
12-21-2011, 04:05 PM
I think for the West supporters here (I'm included) the spacing will be better between Roy and David.

vnzla81
12-21-2011, 04:08 PM
You dont sign a 8 year Vet , with multiple All-Star apperences to a 10M a year contract to come off the bench

I love Ty for everything he stands for (being counted against, written off etc) however that should not take place of what West has accomplished

As was pointed out here, its no who starts, its who finishes

I envision most situations will have Ty and West on the floor together in the final 5 minutes

Many teams sign former all stars to come off the bench, this wouldn't be the 1st or last time that happens, just because we pay the guy 10mil doesn't mean he should be the starter, if West is close to what he used to be before the knee issue he could help our bench to be one of the best benches in the NBA, he could be the main focus of the offense in the second unit and he would have a "garbage player" next to him at all times (Lou,Foster,Pendergraph)

Hicks
12-21-2011, 04:18 PM
Why would anyone assume Tyler is better than West unless they think he's injured? David will start, now or in a few weeks, and we won't look back unless there are injuries. And I really like Tyler.

vnzla81
12-21-2011, 04:23 PM
Why would anyone assume Tyler is better than West unless they think he's injured? David will start, now or in a few weeks, and we won't look back unless there are injuries. And I really like Tyler.

Is not really about who is better but is more about who is the best fit next to Roy, if Tyler keeps rebounding, playing D and hustling the same way he did against Chicago there should be no question about who is starting, now if Roy for some reason sucks, then you send him and Tyler to the bench and you start foster or Lou with West.

PacerHound
12-21-2011, 04:28 PM
At this point in their careers, Tyler is the better player. The better player should start. I also liked what I saw when Hansbrough and West were on the floor at the same time. They can play next to each other for spurts. Some posters led me to believe that was not possible, and I'm pleasantly surprised that Hansbrough can man the PF and West the center at times.

Everyone says Hansbrough should be on the bench because we need a good bench. But that is a slap in the face to the best player on our team. Your best overall player starts, period. Would West not make a great 6th man backing up Hibbert and Hansbrough? Pretty damn good 6th man to me...

Hansbrough has earned the starting spot. I don't think West will ever be able to outplay Hansbrough on this team. West is a new player and Hansbrough has not done a single thing to warrant pulling him as a starter in favor of a guy we just signed that is still learning and recovering from a very serious injury.

I could not have said it better. In basketball you are suppose to earn your starter's spot, not have it handed to you because of what you did last year or the year before, not based on past history. Yes, I also think it is a slap in Tyler's face and I suspect he feels it too. We do want to resign him when his present contract is up don't we? West at his age has peaked. I sure don't think Tyler has. That said the key is probably play them together as much as possible. That is the only solution to what may become a real problem otherwise with minutes. Don't develop a star player then lose him when his contract is up by the way you have treated him.

Midcoasted
12-21-2011, 04:34 PM
Why would anyone assume Tyler is better than West unless they think he's injured? David will start, now or in a few weeks, and we won't look back unless there are injuries. And I really like Tyler.

I don't assume. I watch the game and draw conclusions. Hansbrough has been the best overall Pacer just about any time I turn on a game in the past year. There are a lot of things he brings to the floor that you can't measure with statistics either. He is a better rebounder and there is no question about that. Though West really is just about even with him defensively, and even better in certain instances, he just doesn't bring as much toughness, but he is still very tough.

So maybe Tyler gets the edge defensively because he is still young and improving and has just a tad more energy and toughness, he is the far superior rebounder, and I really think he has a better mid range game than West will here. West played with Chris Paul, of course with CP3 drawing in the defense and hitting a wide open shot West he looks great offensively. He will not enjoy that luxury here as much I'm afraid.

I don't just assume Tyler is the better player. He proved the first two preseason games he probably is the best player on our team. West looked okay, but he did not look near as good as Tyler. Sure West can improve once he gets comfortable. But to me saying West is better because of what he did pre-acl with a different team is making an "assumption" more than "assuming" Hansbrough is the better player. The first two games Tyler showed he will probably be our best player this year. I guess if West proves he is better than out best player that is a good problem to have.

I'm just not going to "assume" West is better because of what he did in the past. We are in the here and now. Last night Hansbrough looked worlds ahead of West. Until that changes, I will continue to draw the same conclusion and I'm not going to "assume" West will be better until he steps out on the floor and proves it.

Eleazar
12-21-2011, 04:35 PM
Some of you still don't seem to understand that the starting line-up isn't about putting your best 5 individual players on the court, it is about putting the best group of 5 players on the court. While Tyler might be better than West (way too early to tell, he has only played 1 game with this team after only 1 week of practicing with this team), that doesn't mean Tyler should start. You should start the players who as a group play better than any other group.

vnzla81 if it is about who is the best fit next to Hibbert there is very little in the past to suggest that the person who fits best next to Hibbert is Tyler.

RWB
12-21-2011, 04:35 PM
Folks this isn't high school basketball here. Yeah I know there are immature players who insist they've got to be starters. Your true professionals (like Tyler has demonstrated so far) will do what the team needs to win games. I wouldn't sweat the non starting too much.

PacerHound
12-21-2011, 04:36 PM
Tyler is going to be our Ginobli (sp?). Arguably the best player on the team, but comes of the bench. I also believe that's a big reason SA was so good.

Edit: Pretty much what Beezer said.

If this is done in the right way with playing time, etc., I have no problem with it. Havlicek came off the bench for a long time too before ever starting. I am just saying in my posts treat Tyler fairly, don't just give his spot to someone else without them having to earn it, and right now it just seems the spot is being handed to West automatically.

Midcoasted
12-21-2011, 04:37 PM
I could not have said it better. In basketball you are suppose to earn your starter's spot, not have it handed to you because of what you did last year or the year before, not based on past history. Yes, I also think it is a slap in Tyler's face and I suspect he feels it too. We do want to resign him when his present contract is up don't we? West at his age has peaked. I sure don't think Tyler has. That said the key is probably play them together as much as possible. That is the only solution to what may become a real problem otherwise with minutes. Don't develop a star player then lose him when his contract is up by the way you have treated him.

Thank you. Someone who has some respect for the "right way" to do things. Tyler has earned his starting spot. Until West outplays him and "earns" it, handing it to a new guy who hasn't earned anything on our team is disrespectful. Tyler earned that spot with blood, sweat, and hustle, and proving all the doubters wrong. He just averaged over 20 and 10 on the "best" defensive team in the NBA. It's laughable to me that people want to just hand West the job Hansbrough has earned.

I also agree that we will see them on the floor together a lot so this argument is pretty pointless anyways. I think West would be fine being the 6th man on a contender getting 30 minutes a night backing up the PF and C. Hence why he signed here. He would be really cocky to think he should just be handed a guy of Hansbrough's caliber starting spot. I think he signed here knowing he could slowly play his way into the rotation and become more effective with time. Hansbrough spent all season busting his *** to get better, while West had to sit on his *** and recover from an ACL. It could take West til the end of the season to be in the same shape Hansbrough is in currently.

Eleazar
12-21-2011, 04:39 PM
If this is done in the right way with playing time, etc., I have no problem with it. Havlicek came off the bench for a long time too before ever starting. I am just saying in my posts treat Tyler fairly, don't just give his spot to someone else without them having to earn it, and right now it just seems the spot is being handed to West automatically.

Well this team has a recent history of just handing spots to players, from Collision to Hansbrough and George.

RWB
12-21-2011, 04:45 PM
Thank you. Someone who has some respect for the "right way" to do things. Tyler has earned his starting spot. Until West outplays him and "earns" it, handing it to a new guy who hasn't earned anything on our team is disrespectful. Tyler earned that spot with blood, sweat, and hustle, and proving all the doubters wrong.


I'm not trying to be an @ss here, but this sounds like a comment of someone who is more worried about the individual than the team. I know you don't believe that and your posts have never reflected that. It is hard to believe a player who believes in his own abilities and is self assured is going to have this much drama because he is not starting.

Midcoasted
12-21-2011, 04:47 PM
Well this team has a recent history of just handing spots to players, from Collision to Hansbrough and George.

I would say that every single player you just mentioned was better than any player that was starting over them and probably did earn those spots in practice and in game time. JOB was still sitting them on the bench for inferior players when it was clear they were better.

They did earn their spots. I don't get where you are getting this from. Remember Posey playing over Hansbrough? Ford closing out games over Collison? Dunleavy over George? I do.

Midcoasted
12-21-2011, 04:51 PM
I'm not trying to be an @ss here, but this sounds like a comment of someone who is more worried about the individual than the team. I know you don't believe that and your posts have never reflected that. It is hard to believe a player who believes in his own abilities and is self assured is going to have this much drama because he is not starting.

I want our team to be the best team obviously. I just firmly believe we get that way by having Hansbrough start, and West be the 6th man. Others have their opinions. I don't think Hansbrough would be unprofessional about it, but at this point in time he is the better player. Until West proves otherwise, I would give him that starters minutes at PF and allow him to finish the games, because he gives us the best chance to win.

I think the true argument we just are now starting to touch on is does Hansbrough/West give us the best chance to win at the end of games, or does Hansbrough/Hibbert?

And to clear up one last thing then I'm out, I am worried about the team. Just handing a guy one of our starter's spots because of something he has never accomplished as a Pacer could send a bad message to the rest of the team. If West was light years ahead of Hansbrough, I would have no problem with him coming and taking his spot. At this point in time though, I truly believe Hansbrough is the superior player.

beast23
12-21-2011, 05:07 PM
Well... it was bound to happen.

There for a few days, with both Rush and Dunleavy gone, I thought this season might be a little "more harmonious".

But alas, we have our new Rush and Dunleavy. Without further adieu, Vnzla81 brings us Hansbrough versus West.

90'sNBARocked
12-21-2011, 05:15 PM
So say it becomes clear that West will never be what he was pre-ACL, and Tyler Hansbrough proves to be the best player on the team, he should still back-up West simply for what West did in the past on another team?

JOB must have flawed the logic of a lot of people on this board. We owe West nothing. We just handed him 10 million dollars to play ball for one year. I really think West fits better as the 6th man because he can back-up both Hansbrough and Hibbert, and I just don't really see Hansbrough being able to back-up Roy other than situationally.

I think we would be a better team with Hansbrough starting and West as the 6th man because West would be the best defender on the bench and he brings a star quality All-star caliber play to the bench. I think it would be an extreme luxury to bring West off the bench, more so than even Hansbrough because West has already earned his stripes with the officials. So that allows us an All-star veteran in Danny starting, and an All-star veteran in West coming off the bench.

And I definitely could see Hansbrough and West on the floor together finishing a few games this year.

Obviously if it turn out West is a shell of himself and Ty is balling, then yes Ty deserves to start but

1. I dont envision that happening
2. If it did , boy would that be one of our worst FA aquisitions
3. We do owe West something. Our starting PF posiiton , which I assume we promised him, now you are correct we owe him nothing if he is routinely outplayed by Ty

gummy
12-21-2011, 05:49 PM
I don't get all this "Tyler proved X in these two preseason games," "Tyler deserves X based on two preseason games," stuff.

I love Tyler, he's one of my favorite Pacers, if not my favorite. He had two really good preseason games. But did you hear yourself? TWO PRESEASON games. TWO. PRESEASON. GAMES.

I'm sorry, you don't prove anything in two preseason games. Hell, you don't prove anything definitive in two regular season games. But Tyler will get his chance to prove something, because West will likely not be ready to start for a few weeks. In the meantime, as West rounds into form, we'll all get a much better idea of who is a better fit with Roy and the rest of the starting lineup (remember - it's not as simple as throwing your most talented players together, it's about how they fit as a unit).

I am glad that the coaching staff probably won't make many snap decisions based on very limited sample sizes. The reason why they expect that David will start eventually is that they anticipate him returning to his pre-injury form. And if he does there is no question that he is a guy you want on the floor a lot, and he is probably better than Tyler. And if Tyler keeps up his level of play, there's no question he is a guy you'll want on the floor a lot. Maybe he'll turn out to be better than West. But we can't know any of that now. Let the guys play, it'll sort itself out.

vnzla81
12-21-2011, 05:54 PM
I don't get all this "Tyler proved X in these two preseason games," "Tyler deserves X based on two preseason games," stuff.

I love Tyler, he's one of my favorite Pacers, if not my favorite. He had two really good preseason games. But did you hear yourself? TWO PRESEASON games. TWO. PRESEASON. GAMES.

I'm sorry, you don't prove anything in two preseason games. Hell, you don't prove anything definitive in two regular season games. But Tyler will get his chance to prove something, because West will likely not be ready to start for a few weeks. In the meantime, as West rounds into form, we'll all get a much better idea of who is a better fit with Roy and the rest of the starting lineup.

I am glad that the coaching staff probably won't make many snap decisions based on very limited sample sizes. Let the guys play, it'll sort itself out.


Once he found his rhythm in 2009-10, he began to emerge as a consistently productive force, starting the final 19 games and all five against the Bulls in the first round of the playoffs. In the 16 games when he played at least 30 minutes, Hansbrough averaged 19.7 points and 7.9 rebounds and shot .506 from the field.



This looks more than just TWO PRESEASON GAMES to me.

xBulletproof
12-21-2011, 05:57 PM
This looks more than just TWO PRESEASON GAMES to me.

Read the article you quoted. Those stats are cherry picked. In the "games when he played at least 30 minutes". Well guess why he played 30 or more minutes in those games? I can tell you why. He was playing well. In the games he didn't play well, he didn't play 30 minutes. Pretty simple.

So the cherry picked stats from Tyler, are what West has produced several entire seasons.

I like Tyler a lot, but this is getting silly.

gummy
12-21-2011, 06:03 PM
This looks more than just TWO PRESEASON GAMES to me.

See above ^^^

Also, I know it's tempting, but don't assume it's a response to you. There are people in this thread saying Tyler has earned his spot with his preseason play.

Tyler is going to start for now anyway. Like I said, we'll get a chance to make more reliable judgments by a few weeks into the season. I actually have some trust in this coaching staff. I think they will properly evaluate things. If West earns more playing time, he'll get it. This is much ado about nothing at this point.

Eddie Gill
12-21-2011, 06:08 PM
3. We do owe West something. Our starting PF posiiton , which I assume we promised him, now you are correct we owe him nothing if he is routinely outplayed by Ty


This. David West is as good a free agent signing as this team has ever had IMO. Convincing good players to come to Indiana is hard enough. You don't make that harder on yourself by benching the highest profile signing in recent memory. West is an extremely well-liked player around the league, and benching him would turn a lot of people off. Tyler is more than capable of coming off the bench and contributing and I think you have to let him.

vnzla81
12-21-2011, 06:18 PM
Read the article you quoted. Those stats are cherry picked. In the "games when he played at least 30 minutes". Well guess why he played 30 or more minutes in those games? I can tell you why. He was playing well. In the games he didn't play well, he didn't play 30 minutes. Pretty simple.

So the cherry picked stats from Tyler, are what West has produced several entire seasons.

I like Tyler a lot, but this is getting silly.

If you look at his stats from last year there were a lot of games that he played less than 30minutes and still did pretty well, so the 'he didn't play 30minutes because didn't play well" is not right either.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hansbty01/gamelog/2011/

xBulletproof
12-21-2011, 07:26 PM
If you look at his stats from last year there were a lot of games that he played less than 30minutes and still did pretty well, so the 'he didn't play 30minutes because didn't play well" is not right either.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hansbty01/gamelog/2011/

You spend so much time arguing the tiniest of details to defend your stance, that you completely miss the point that was being made.

Kemo
12-21-2011, 07:53 PM
There is something I have always had in the back of my mind about Tyler Hansbrough, but kept to myself for fear of getting flamed on here ..

But I think Hans is one of those very rare guys that only come around once every 10 to 15 years ..

Rare in his winning mentality , and his passion to be the best.
Michael Jordan had it , Magic Johnson had it , Larry Bird had it ..

For instance look at how Hans pushed himself in college and broke all those NCAA records , UNC records, and Michael Jordan records..

You don't accomplish all he has, and not carry over that same mentality to the next level...

I mean sure there are all kinds of examples of awesome college players who came to the NBA and didn't do squat...

But not one of them players have done all that Tyler has done in college and at that level...

I know it is still too early to proclaim or assume anything yet, but I give him this season and the next, and he will be considered among the elite and an all star ..

It wouldn't surprise me if at some point, he didn't try and break some season and playoff records in the NBA. That's just the kinda player he is and mental make-up he has ..

It also wouldn't shock me to see him average an insanely high ppg for a PF either...


As long as he stays healthy, the sky is the limit...

Sookie
12-21-2011, 11:08 PM
Hans doesn't remind me of the Larry/Michael/ Kobe's of the world.

But he reminds me of another type of rare player. The best example I can think of, is one of my all time favorite Huskies, Mel Thomas. A kid who didn't have "talent" but was so darn resilient and tenacious, and the motor never stopped. She was essentially a 5'8 shooting guard (that's short for women, if you didn't know, usually they around 6'0) who had poor ball handling, was "slow and unathletic."..she could shoot though.. And yet somehow managed to be a three year starter on the Uconn women's team. And be the person that the Geno Auriemma (IMO, one of, if not the best basketball coaches, period) said if Uconn had her (She was injured her senior season) Uconn goes undefeated and wins the national championship. (They lost in the final four.)

Why? she never stopped. She learned to be the best she could possibly be with the skills she had. She actually did contribute 110%, as imposible as that seems. And her endurance was off the charts. This slow and unathletic girl could somehow manage to defend the other team's best player, and do it quite well..because she just never stopped.

Was she ever going to be as good as those people, like Michael and Kobe (Taurasi and Catchings in the Women's world) who put in the work, had heart, and other such intangilbles, no. But she would be a heck of a lot better than those players who had the talent, but didn't have the mental capabilities, and didn't work as hard, and didn't go 100% ALL the time.

Tyler, to me, is exactly like that. I think for the most part, he'd be the least talented starter on pretty much every team he played on. But he'll be more effective than a majority because a majority don't have the motor he has, don't have the will that he has, and aren't as tenacious. And he'll always find ways to make himself better and improve.

BlueNGold
12-21-2011, 11:15 PM
Tyler reminds me of a guy I used to play with who wasn't any taller than 6 feet, but competed with the guys in the paint. He used to say on D he could get up and bother guys. The truth was, he had a non-stop extreme motor and played with more energy than other players were capable. That capability I think is actually a talent that people simply don't see or respect.

Take Jeff Foster. What talent does the man even have? Same with Dennis Rodman and Ben Wallace. All those guys have is more energy for the most part. That's something that's not handed out to all of us and is a legitimate capability that makes a real difference in games...and that cannot be taken away easily....and cannot really be learned.

Kemo
12-21-2011, 11:52 PM
Hans doesn't remind me of the Larry/Michael/ Kobe's of the world.
.

The only comparison I was making in regards to that statement, was Hansbrough's passion to be the best he can be and his passion to WIN.

Tyler has the heart of a champion.. That is something very very few players have...

Sookie
12-22-2011, 12:59 AM
The only comparison I was making in regards to that statement, was Hansbrough's passion to be the best he can be and his passion to WIN.

Tyler has the heart of a champion.. That is something very very few players have...

yea, I knew you meant mentally, I was just saying I think it's a little different. Simply because I think the mentality of someone extremely talented is different than someone who has to work harder than everyone else just to belong on the court.

PaceBalls
12-22-2011, 03:40 AM
You dont sign a 8 year Vet , with multiple All-Star apperences to a 10M a year contract to come off the bench

I love Ty for everything he stands for (being counted against, written off etc) however that should not take place of what West has accomplished

As was pointed out here, its no who starts, its who finishes

I envision most situations will have Ty and West on the floor together in the final 5 minutes

I agree, but then if you have Tyler playing like a freaking MVP candidate out there... what do you do?

You bench Roy and start West and Hansbrough. I don't want to see anymore coddling of the players for their fragile egos.

It does matter who starts, it sets the tone of the game, it creates the match ups and forces adjustments, especially when Tyler gets the opposing teams starting front court into foul trouble in the first 3 minutes of every game.

able
12-22-2011, 05:11 AM
Preseason; yep that is where we can see who will be the best player on our team.

IF last season AND these two preseason games are anything to go by, then there is no way in hell you make Roy and Tyler start.

Those two do not fit together and as a whole the team plays dramatic, it was like that last year, it is like that now.

Tyler's personal success and numbers are nothing but that, he took 19 shots the last game and made 9, anyone that takes that many is asked to make at least so little.

The day you make Tyler the starter over West you also have to replace Roy as starter.

PGisthefuture
12-22-2011, 05:58 AM
Don't get me wrong, I loved what I saw from Hansbrough, but there is a little bit of overreaction going on here. This is preseason after all. Hansbrough has proven that he is the most conditioned guy on the team. I just don't see Hansbrough starting over West just based on the fact of West's career and what he's proven to do on a consistent basis. I think we will see a lot of Hansbrough and West on the court together. West surprised me with his strength and he handled the Bulls' big guys pretty well. If Tyler continues to do this in the regular season, then yeah Vogel will have to consider starting Hansbrough, heck if Roy doesn't get his act together we could see West starting at the C.

xBulletproof
12-22-2011, 07:12 AM
but there is a little bit of overreaction going on here.

If you're gonna be here a while, you better get used to that.

bphil
12-22-2011, 10:40 AM
It's pretty obvious that eventually we're going to see Tyler at PF and West at C for the bulk of the game. I don't know who will start, but in the end West will take much more time away from Hibbert than from Tyler.

Brad8888
12-22-2011, 10:53 AM
A wonderful problem to have at a somewhat higher level than last year: two power forwards of varying skillsets competing for the starting / finishing slots!

My guess, at this point at least, is that the player who has the most to worry about regarding total playing time is Roy. He still hasn't been taught how to establish himself down low, or just can't due to his lack of the required bulk to truly do so. I am not necessarily advocating his bulking up further, but he might simply not ever be able to take up space in the paint unless he does. And, it probably would not be in Roy's best interests to do so from a longevity standpoint.

If West gets healthy and gets his conditioning back, it could be very interesting to have two scoring 4's on the floor at the same time without a center, and then have them both available to do what they each specialize in, with West being more of a pick and pop kind of guy while Tyler either bulls to the rack for and-1's or curls for midrange jumpers with each being available to clean the glass for the other one offensively.

RubberSoul
12-22-2011, 12:04 PM
Time will tell what kind of NBA career Hansbrough will have, but I won't be surprised if he actually plays in an NBA all-star game at some point. During his UNC career I was working as an Associate Sports Editor and The (Raleigh) News & Observer and a couple of things stand out as I look back.

No. 1, UNC beat Duke in Cameron all four years he played. If you have any understanding of how intense that rivalry is, that's an incredible accomplishment. And the main reason UNC won those games was because Hansbrough is a fearless competitor who absolutely loved playing in that kind of hostile environment, where he was the particular focus of the Duke students. His attitude carried his teammates. Not only did UNC win those games, the closest one was 6 points (101-87, 76-68, 79-73, 83-76).

Throughout his career, he improved. As a freshman he succeeded through sheer effort around the basket. By the time he was a senior, he was a very good perimeter shooter. I always thought he was capable of becoming one because he was such a good free throw shooter, right from the start. His form is so solid and he has great touch for a guy who relies so much on being strong with the ball around the basket. The one part of his game that took the longest to develop was passing out of the post, which is a concern for a lot of you. But during his senior season, he did start giving up the ball because the Heels were so balanced. His scoring average dipped and folks figured he was regressing. In fact, after winning national player of the year awards as a junior but losing to Kansas in the Final Four, the only thing that mattered to him was winning an NCAA title and he understood guys like Lawson, Ellington and Green needed to get their shots. In the title game against Michigan State, he had two or three really nice feeds to Deon Thompson in the post that led to easy baskets. He'll figure that out in Indiana.

Hansbrough understands his limitations. He'll never be a shot-blocker, but he learned to play pretty good positional defense. I'm actually surprised that he's been able to rebound as well as he has at the NBA level, but I think what he gets is through sheer hustle. I don't remember him ever being in foul trouble during college because he was too smart to commit careless fouls.

I understand why folks may be skeptical about him. He's not a graceful player by any means, but he's a better athlete than some give him credit for and as you've seen he'll play harder than anyone he's matched up against.

Every player who comes to the NBA wants to prove himself and Tyler is no different. After what he's been through the past couple of years with the leg injury, the vertigo, a coach who didn't seem to be sold on him, it's remarkable he was able to play with so much confidence once he got some meaningful minutes.

The bottom line with this guy is that he wants to win. So whether he starts or comes off the bench, he'll play just as hard.

Eleazar
12-22-2011, 02:16 PM
I would say that every single player you just mentioned was better than any player that was starting over them and probably did earn those spots in practice and in game time. JOB was still sitting them on the bench for inferior players when it was clear they were better.

They did earn their spots. I don't get where you are getting this from. Remember Posey playing over Hansbrough? Ford closing out games over Collison? Dunleavy over George? I do.

How were they mot given their starting positions. Collision was in no way any better than Ford, and maybe only slightly better than Price. Collision was given the starting spot for reasons other than basketball.

Yes there was Poesy, but anyone on here should no that was not what I was talking about. The best line-up, and it wasn't even remotely close, last year in included Dunleavy and McRoberts. While an argument could be made for George to start for developmental reasons he wasn't the best option to be starting. Hibbert has always played better next to McRoberts than Hansbrough. The starters played better with McRoberts, how the hell can you seriously argue that Hansbrough was not given the starting spot? There was not one logical basketball reason to start Hansbrough lazt year, but he was just given it.


Not to meantion the Lance debacle from last year. To say any of them actually earnedthe starting spot is ridiculous.

A.B.Hollywood
12-22-2011, 03:07 PM
This is ridiculous. Hans had a decent stretch but then fell completely flat on his face right after. His one 10 game "outburst" and 2 pre-season games do not equate to what David West has done for the past 8 years.

Hansbrough in his absolute best and peak is not as good as the Worst year West has had in his career.

This is all just because one dude on this board is hell bent on hating West and will not stop at anything to prove this. I may have to go to an ignore list even. Thats how tired and frustrating it is.

I feel like I am back to arguing with the old Pacer fans on the Indy star board about Troy Murphy when they talked him up like the second coming.

A.B.Hollywood
12-22-2011, 03:11 PM
At this point in their careers, Tyler is the better player.

I disagree for a completely different reason: He is NOT the better player. Not by a long shot.

Wait till 25 or 30 games in and see if anyone is clamoring for this garbage. David West is an absolute stud and it is only a matter of time before everyone with a pulse realizes this and stops insulting the man asking for a passing deficient hustle player with a decent (albeit streaky) touch to start in front of him.

Anthem
12-22-2011, 04:28 PM
With West showing he can play C, I'm not sure what the debate's even about now. West/Hibbert/Tyler will all get all the minutes they want.

JEM
12-22-2011, 04:32 PM
How were they mot given their starting positions. Collision was in no way any better than Ford, and maybe only slightly better than Price. Collision was given the starting spot for reasons other than basketball.

Yes there was Poesy, but anyone on here should no that was not what I was talking about. The best line-up, and it wasn't even remotely close, last year in included Dunleavy and McRoberts. While an argument could be made for George to start for developmental reasons he wasn't the best option to be starting. Hibbert has always played better next to McRoberts than Hansbrough. The starters played better with McRoberts, how the hell can you seriously argue that Hansbrough was not given the starting spot? There was not one logical basketball reason to start Hansbrough lazt year, but he was just given it.


Not to meantion the Lance debacle from last year. To say any of them actually earnedthe starting spot is ridiculous.

I remember last year when Hansbrough was inserted in to the starting lineup.. It had something to do with the starters always starting the game off crappy and the bench having to come in and save the day.

So the starters didnt really play better with McRoberts IMO. His 2 or 3 assists ( maybe ) a game didnt make up for his deficiencies in other areas.. areas that the team needed.

Anthem
12-22-2011, 04:42 PM
I remember last year when Hansbrough was inserted in to the starting lineup.. It had something to do with the starters always starting the game off crappy and the bench having to come in and save the day.

So the starters didnt really play better with McRoberts IMO. His 2 or 3 assists ( maybe ) a game didnt make up for his deficiencies in other areas.. areas that the team needed.
I haven't seen a game yet, and I'm excited that Tyler's been tearing it up.

One of the ways I'm hoping Tyler improves this year is in fitting into a team offense. Last year, I sometimes felt that he played outside the team offense and hurt the flow. He improved over time, though, so I don't expect it to be an issue this year.

vnzla81
12-22-2011, 04:55 PM
Too bad he can only do it in preseason

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xDyG7Ga2ZZY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

bigdaddy19
12-22-2011, 05:15 PM
I have visited Pacers Digest for about four years now, mostly reading posts, posting myself rarely. My question is why does every post have to be so polarizing (spl?). I really like Tyler Hansbrough he is fast becoming my favorite player, but is it such a big deal to wait and see if what he can do for the rest of the season before discrediting anything West has done or possibly can do.

I really like having both on the Pacers, Tyler stated that he does not have a problem playing from the bench, as long as he gets consistant minutes and the Pacers are winning I think he would be happy.

I get that everyone has an opinion, I would never try to put a damper on another person's fandom. But I think that maybe we should temper out responses, and curb our hyperbole, for everyone's sake.

Anthem
12-22-2011, 06:35 PM
I get that everyone has an opinion, I would never try to put a damper on another person's fandom. But I think that maybe we should temper out responses, and curb our hyperbole, for everyone's sake.
Agreed. This season, more than any in a while, is going to be a serious up-and-down ride. The trick's going to be avoiding getting too high after a win and too low after a loss.

owl
12-22-2011, 06:56 PM
All I know is that Pacers basketball is back and promising. Lets play some basketball.
All the hyperbole has no affect on the Pacers. Flame on.... :-)

ksuttonjr76
12-22-2011, 07:20 PM
Interesting...I didn't think this would be much of an argument. I personally believe that Tyler's presence in the second unit will either us back into a game or continue to bury the team that we're playing against. I just can't see us losing a lead with him in the lineup against another team's second unit.

As a side note...I finally saw the word that I was looking for when it comes to Tyler. The man is REALLY NOT graceful at all, lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOYsQHjuxWM&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLDC27D17920F90A27

Love the song for Psycho T. Good God...he got bigger since he came into the NBA?????

ksuttonjr76
12-22-2011, 07:44 PM
After watching some more YouTube videos (YouTube is the devil!), I STRONGLY believe Tyler WILL be the difference maker for us to beat Chicago. Chicago is the ONLY team that can match us at all positions and depth.

I'm calling it now...Chicago (#1 seed) and Indiana (6th or 7th seed) will be in the Eastern Conference Finals.

JEM
12-22-2011, 08:01 PM
Love the song for Psycho T. Good God...he got bigger since he came into the NBA?????

Love that video..

And yea he has gotten bigger. I noticed it much more this year though. He looks leaner and his arms have much more definition to them.

Infinite MAN_force
12-24-2011, 04:39 PM
Man, I'm so happy we can draw so many strong conclusions from two preseason games, against the same team no less. Really works out conveniently.

Roy sucks.

Tyler is clearly better than two time all star David West, so much better that it would be insulting to Tyler to even think about bringing him off the bench.

And if we go ahead and extrapolate our preseason winning percentage, Pacers are going 0-66 this year.

Might as well call it a day. No need to even watch, really.

Infinite MAN_force
12-24-2011, 04:47 PM
Agreed. This season, more than any in a while, is going to be a serious up-and-down ride. The trick's going to be avoiding getting too high after a win and too low after a loss.

People on message forums have a problem grasping this concept, I've noticed.

I can picture post game threads where player's make the transition from "future hall of famer" to "worthless scrub" in the span of days.

I also guarantee that if the team is below .500 about 20 games in, somebody starts a tank thread.

CreekShow
12-24-2011, 05:04 PM
Hes got such a level head. He is exactly what the Pacers need. I dont think the fact of him not starting will hurt one bit, he is going to provide extremely valuable minutes off the bench. If anything that will just motivate him more, if thats even possible.

Its kinda special being a Carolina fan and watching him since HS, then getting to watch him play all 4 years in college, and eventually getting drafted by my fav NBA team. Everyone doubted him coming into the NBA, and Ill admit I never really imagined hed be making the impact hes making. It just goes to show you what happens when some people WANT it more than others. Dude deserves everything he gets.

1984
12-24-2011, 08:51 PM
Oh, how I wish Tyler Hansbrough were a 6'11'' center.

Ozwalt72
12-24-2011, 09:30 PM
Oh, how I wish Tyler Hansbrough were a 6'11'' center.

:)

Be grateful for what he is, though. Right? 6'9" PF that's proven a lot of us wrong.

Midcoasted
12-25-2011, 10:05 AM
This is ridiculous. Hans had a decent stretch but then fell completely flat on his face right after. His one 10 game "outburst" and 2 pre-season games do not equate to what David West has done for the past 8 years.

Hansbrough in his absolute best and peak is not as good as the Worst year West has had in his career.

This is all just because one dude on this board is hell bent on hating West and will not stop at anything to prove this. I may have to go to an ignore list even. Thats how tired and frustrating it is.

I feel like I am back to arguing with the old Pacer fans on the Indy star board about Troy Murphy when they talked him up like the second coming.

So what exactly has West done for the last 8 years? Any great playoff moments to cite? Any rings?

See this is what's wrong with the NBA. People think X player is better because he puts up better stats than Y. Well I hate to break it to you, but every year, 29 teams flame out and go home losers like the rest. So there can only be one true champion every year. All 29 other teams flame out and are failures to some degree.

So this argument is about winning. No one, based off of stats alone, can build a championship team. What player gives you the best chance to win? I would say up to this point in their overall BASKETBALL careers, Hansbrough is the fiercer competitor and has locked himself into the basketball hall of fame because of his ability to help his team win championships at UNC. Has West ever been a part of a championship team past the high school level?

Is West going to the hall for his 8 years in the NBA? How much of those stats were "empty" just like Troy Murphy's were for many years here? How much did West help the Hornets be a contender? Or was West just feeding off of CP3 and simply scoring "shallow" points like Murphy did?

How can anyone prove one way or the other who truly is the better player? So was Troy Murphy really an All-star caliber player his last year here before we traded him? His stats would leave you to believe so...And this is what everyone is basing how West is "better" than Hansbrough with. Because he has basically put up 17 and 8 through his career in 35-40 minutes per game.

So refute me with some evidence or just a hypothetical argument like mine, or hell ignore me I don't care. I don't hate West. I want him to be good for us. I'm just not so blind to the game and what it takes to win a championship that I'm going to look at stats to decide who the better player is at this point. Most people on this board are looking at West's stats and crowning him the superior player without ever seeing him step on the floor in a regular season game as an Indiana Pacer.

So you my friend, are the one taking the Troy Murphy stance. You are arguing West is the better player when there is no way you have seen him play more than a handful of games in his career. You are basing this off of stats alone like people did with Murphy. You are taking the Murphy stance, not I, and you are crowning West the second coming because of his "stats" through his 8 year career. Not what he has done in the playoffs when the lights are on the pressure is ramped up.

Does anyone here not realize that West's efficiency has dropped a lot when the playoffs start? He doesn't even shoot over 50 percent? Becomes slightly less efficient rebounding the ball? It's right there in the stats...The guy sure doesn't get better when the lights come one...I'd say Hansbrough does...

Midcoasted
12-25-2011, 10:17 AM
How were they mot given their starting positions. Collision was in no way any better than Ford, and maybe only slightly better than Price. Collision was given the starting spot for reasons other than basketball.

Yes there was Poesy, but anyone on here should no that was not what I was talking about. The best line-up, and it wasn't even remotely close, last year in included Dunleavy and McRoberts. While an argument could be made for George to start for developmental reasons he wasn't the best option to be starting. Hibbert has always played better next to McRoberts than Hansbrough. The starters played better with McRoberts, how the hell can you seriously argue that Hansbrough was not given the starting spot? There was not one logical basketball reason to start Hansbrough lazt year, but he was just given it.


Not to meantion the Lance debacle from last year. To say any of them actually earnedthe starting spot is ridiculous.

I just don't even know how to respond to this most of it is so over reaching. Our best line-up was with Dunleavy and McRoberts on the floor? Are you ****ing kidding me? Wait, let me guess, you are basing this on some senseless "stat" that doesn't take into account who they were playing, at what point in the game, etc. You just look to the stats and say that when McRoberts and Dunleavy were on the floor they were the better players? That is just laughable to me.

Yea that was our "best" line-up if you buy the JOB line. When they were playing over Hansbrough and George early on in the year we were getting smoked and the playoffs looked impossible. Even JOB had given up on them because he kept fielding craptastic, soft sub .500 line-ups.

Oh then, all of a sudden, Vogel comes along and plays the better players. George plays over Dunleavy, Hansbrough over McRoberts, and Collison over Ford, and duh, duh, duh, we win over half of our games to close out the season! Ford was better than Collison? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

So look to your "stats" to determine that these players were just "given" their jobs and didn't deserve them over those players. Then I'll replay the game film in my mind and look at the win-loss record and feel confident that we have a million times better chance of winning games and a playoff series with Collison, George, and Hansbrough playing over guys like Ford, Dunleavy, and McRoberts...

vnzla81
12-25-2011, 10:42 AM
So what exactly has West done for the last 8 years? Any great playoff moments to cite? Any rings?

See this is what's wrong with the NBA. People think X player is better because he puts up better stats than Y. Well I hate to break it to you, but every year, 29 teams flame out and go home losers like the rest. So there can only be one true champion every year. All 29 other teams flame out and are failures to some degree.

So this argument is about winning. No one, based off of stats alone, can build a championship team. What player gives you the best chance to win? I would say up to this point in their overall BASKETBALL careers, Hansbrough is the fiercer competitor and has locked himself into the basketball hall of fame because of his ability to help his team win championships at UNC. Has West ever been a part of a championship team past the high school level?

Is West going to the hall for his 8 years in the NBA? How much of those stats were "empty" just like Troy Murphy's were for many years here? How much did West help the Hornets be a contender? Or was West just feeding off of CP3 and simply scoring "shallow" points like Murphy did?

How can anyone prove one way or the other who truly is the better player? So was Troy Murphy really an All-star caliber player his last year here before we traded him? His stats would leave you to believe so...And this is what everyone is basing how West is "better" than Hansbrough with. Because he has basically put up 17 and 8 through his career in 35-40 minutes per game.

So refute me with some evidence or just a hypothetical argument like mine, or hell ignore me I don't care. I don't hate West. I want him to be good for us. I'm just not so blind to the game and what it takes to win a championship that I'm going to look at stats to decide who the better player is at this point. Most people on this board are looking at West's stats and crowning him the superior player without ever seeing him step on the floor in a regular season game as an Indiana Pacer.

So you my friend, are the one taking the Troy Murphy stance. You are arguing West is the better player when there is no way you have seen him play more than a handful of games in his career. You are basing this off of stats alone like people did with Murphy. You are taking the Murphy stance, not I, and you are crowning West the second coming because of his "stats" through his 8 year career. Not what he has done in the playoffs when the lights are on the pressure is ramped up.

Does anyone here not realize that West's efficiency has dropped a lot when the playoffs start? He doesn't even shoot over 50 percent? Becomes slightly less efficient rebounding the ball? It's right there in the stats...The guy sure doesn't get better when the lights come one...I'd say Hansbrough does...

Good post, too bad so many people don't understand what are you talking about here and instead call you a "hater", people forget that West got to play in a team with CP3(superstar), Tyson Chandler(all star) and Peja(former all star) and couldn't do anything, now people expect him many years later and after a knee injury to put the Pacers in his back and carry them to the promise land, I'm sorry but I don't see that happening.

Hicks
12-25-2011, 10:42 AM
Unless his health is a serious problem, some of you are going to be surprised by David West. I can't believe how dismissive some of you are of how good he's been and could easily still be.

vnzla81
12-25-2011, 10:50 AM
Unless his health is a serious problem, some of you are going to be surprised by David West. I can't believe how dismissive some of you are of how good he's been and could easily still be.

I think he is going to be good but not as good as many people here expect him to be, I don't think he is going to be as good as his 10mil dollars a year paycheck either, I could see him helping but not as much, I think he is going to average like 14 and 5, good but not all star or difference maker good.

Infinite MAN_force
12-25-2011, 11:23 AM
No matter how many times people refute it, the fallacious argument that West lived off of CP3 will never die.

Infinite MAN_force
12-25-2011, 11:54 AM
So this argument is about winning. No one, based off of stats alone, can build a championship team. What player gives you the best chance to win? I would say up to this point in their overall BASKETBALL careers, Hansbrough is the fiercer competitor and has locked himself into the basketball hall of fame because of his ability to help his team win championships at UNC. Has West ever been a part of a championship team past the high school level?



Are we talking about what Hansbrough did in college? Has it really come to that?

Some of you people might actually want to do some research on David West's game, because if you are comparing him to Troy Murphy, you are simply embarrassing yourself.

CreekShow
12-25-2011, 03:46 PM
You have to factor in that Tyler has had his fair share of health problems and injuries himself. People must not be factoring that this is only Hansbrough 3rd year in the league and hes done nothing but get better. Not only was he working against injuries, he was also working against JOB. If he doesnt start over West no big deal, id like to see him dominate some second units. But ANYONE saying Tylers best year wont be better than Wests worst year, that is just plain Ignorant and you must just watch Highlights on ESPN.

The only bad thing you can say about him is being consistent. He hasnt even really had a ton of chances to be consistent yet. Give him some time and he will prove any doubters wrong, hes been doing it his whole life