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Gamble1
12-21-2011, 11:44 AM
David West will be our backup Center.

Like many of you I didn't think he could play center at all but looking at how he played Noah I am convinced that Vogels experiment of playing West at Center worked and worked better than most had expected.

First and foremost he held his ground and didn't give Noah and inch. This is no small feat and on a number of occasions albeit limited to 15 minutes he rooted Noah out of rebounding position and was able to score on him in the low post.

You guys can call me crazy but last night even if it was only one preseason game proved to me that David West will get a large chunk of the back up center minutes.

Even if you look at the starting centers in the East who will West not be able to defend? Howard... sure but no one can guard him and who else? Bogut? Those are the only two that come to mind and I am perfectly fine trotting out Foster for those two.

The fact is Tyler and David are just too good not to play 30 minutes a piece and the only way that happens is if David plays some center along with Tyler at pf and from what I saw from last night that is very doable as long as everyone stays healthy and West gets back to game shape.

I have to give thanks for Vogel for actually playing West last night and to Bird for being a good president and landing us a guy like West. Christmas came early for me..:happydanc

Predictions... 5th seed in the East and second round playoff team if everyone stays healthy.

HickeyS2000
12-21-2011, 11:51 AM
I disagree. I think you are forgetting about Amundson and Pendergraph.

West will be starting at PF soon, with Hans backing him up. Do I think West will get some minutes at back C? Yes. But not as many as you do.

Gamble1
12-21-2011, 11:57 AM
I disagree. I think you are forgetting about Amundson and Pendergraph.

West will be starting at PF soon, with Hans backing him up. Do I think West will get some minutes at back C? Yes. But not as many as you do.

I didn't forget about them. I like those players but Amundson and Pendergraph all have very limited offensive games and thats why West will get the lions share of minutes at the backup Center position.

You play the best players as long as they can handle the minutes and West is much better than those two.

bigdaddy19
12-21-2011, 12:01 PM
David West will be our backup Center.

Like many of you I didn't think he could play center at all but looking at how he played Noah I am convinced that Vogels experiment of playing West at Center worked and worked better than most had expected.

First and foremost he held his ground and didn't give Noah and inch. This is no small feat and on a number of occasions albeit limited to 15 minutes he rooted Noah out of rebounding position and was able to score on him in the low post.

You guys can call me crazy but last night even if it was only one preseason game proved to me that David West will get a large chunk of the back up center minutes.

Even if you look at the starting centers in the East who will West not be able to defend? Howard... sure but no one can guard him and who else? Bogut? Those are the only two that come to mind and I am perfectly fine trotting out Foster for those two.

The fact is Tyler and David are just too good not to play 30 minutes a piece and the only way that happens is if David plays some center along with Tyler at pf and from what I saw from last night that is very doable as long as everyone stays healthy and West gets back to game shape.

I have to give thanks for Vogel for actually playing West last night and to Bird for being a good president and landing us a guy like West. Christmas came early for me..:happydanc

Predictions... 5th seed in the East and second round playoff team if everyone stays healthy.

I agree, I think there will be plenty of times that the pacers can have Hans and West at the same time. All depends on the other team, if the other team's center is not a huge offensive threat, then I think that David can be utilized effectively.

Jose Slaughter
12-21-2011, 12:02 PM
Center minutes: Hibbert 30, West 18

Forward minutes: West 14, Hansbrough 28, Amundson 6

Give or take

PacerPenguins
12-21-2011, 12:05 PM
as long as west gets significant minutes.... I'm fine with wherever he plays

PacerHound
12-21-2011, 12:11 PM
David West will be our backup Center.

Like many of you I didn't think he could play center at all but looking at how he played Noah I am convinced that Vogels experiment of playing West at Center worked and worked better than most had expected.

First and foremost he held his ground and didn't give Noah and inch. This is no small feat and on a number of occasions albeit limited to 15 minutes he rooted Noah out of rebounding position and was able to score on him in the low post.

You guys can call me crazy but last night even if it was only one preseason game proved to me that David West will get a large chunk of the back up center minutes.

Even if you look at the starting centers in the East who will West not be able to defend? Howard... sure but no one can guard him and who else? Bogut? Those are the only two that come to mind and I am perfectly fine trotting out Foster for those two.

The fact is Tyler and David are just too good not to play 30 minutes a piece and the only way that happens is if David plays some center along with Tyler at pf and from what I saw from last night that is very doable as long as everyone stays healthy and West gets back to game shape.

I have to give thanks for Vogel for actually playing West last night and to Bird for being a good president and landing us a guy like West. Christmas came early for me..:happydanc

Predictions... 5th seed in the East and second round playoff team if everyone stays healthy.

I was just getting ready to start a thread entitled, "Did Bird Make a Mistake With West?" when I saw your thread and since we are covering much the same ground I will integrate my thoughts here rather than on another thread.


Does anyone else see a problem developing like I do? I don't think there is anyone on this forum who would argue against the fact that Tyler was by far our best player in these 2 preseason games. He has shown tremendous improvement over last year. That spin move early in the first quarter where he ended up being fouled was a thing of beauty and the man can draw fouls and hit them. I do not see how this team is going to win unless Tyler is getting 30 to 36 minutes a game. Now we have West who is also going to need his minutes but they are playing the same position. How are you going to work that out?

It is beginning to look to me like Bird made a mistake and upgraded maybe the strongest position on the team not realizing the kind of development Tyler was going to make over the summer and now it is too late. If Tyler plays like he has West is not a bit better than Tyler and right now not as good (yeah, I know injury). It is beginning to look to me like Tyler and McRoberts could have handled the power forward position just fine and if the preseason is any indication the upgrades were needed elsewhere far worse and the money could have been spent there with better results for the team. We have some guys on this team that need to get their act together fast. If I am Bird I am still shopping for some players but it is late, probably too late.

Finally, if it is said it is preseason and guys don't get excited about putting out and winning games I say this was not a normal preseason and besides I don't want players on my team that are not trying with all their might to win preseason or on the playground.

(I add I think West is going to do fine for us but that does not resolve the problem. Can you play them both at the same time? That is what is going to have to happen to get Tyler sufficient minutes or else we are going to have a problem. Just one man's opinion. You are entitled to yours so don't get mad.)

PacerPenguins
12-21-2011, 12:16 PM
I was just getting ready to start a thread entitled, "Did Bird Make a Mistake With West?" when I saw your thread and since we are covering much the same ground I will integrate my thoughts here rather than on another thread.


Does anyone else see a problem developing like I do? I don't think there is anyone on this forum who would argue against the fact that Tyler was by far our best player in these 2 preseason games. He has shown tremendous improvement over last year. That spin move early in the first quarter where he ended up being fouled was a thing of beauty and the man can draw fouls and hit them. I do not see how this team is going to win unless Tyler is getting 30 to 36 minutes a game. Now we have West who is also going to need his minutes but they are playing the same position. How are you going to work that out?

It is beginning to look to me like Bird made a mistake and upgraded maybe the strongest position on the team not realizing the kind of development Tyler was going to make over the summer and now it is too late. If Tyler plays like he has West is not a bit better than Tyler and right now not as good (yeah, I know injury). It is beginning to look to me like Tyler and McRoberts could have handled the power forward position just fine and if the preseason is any indication the upgrades were needed elsewhere far worse and the money could have been spent there with better results for the team. We have some guys on this team that need to get their act together fast. If I am Bird I am still shopping for some players but it is late, probably too late.

Finally, if it is said it is preseason and guys don't get excited about putting out and winning games I say this was not a normal preseason and besides I don't want players on my team that are not trying with all their might to win preseason or on the playground.

(I add I think West is going to do fine for us but that does not resolve the problem. Can you play them both at the same time? That is what is going to have to happen to get Tyler sufficient minutes or else we are going to have a problem. Just one man's opinion. You are entitled to yours so don't get mad.)

so ur basing ur decisions on 2 preseason games where david west has only played 15 minutes in one game against one of the best defenses in the league?

:notamused:

ColeTheMole
12-21-2011, 12:18 PM
Center minutes: Hibbert 30, West 18

Forward minutes: West 14, Hansbrough 28, Amundson 6

Give or take

So Foster is not going to play at all? I'm going to have to go with a big disagree on that one.

pizza guy
12-21-2011, 12:31 PM
It seems like you're probably onto something with this. Tyler is a heckuva ball player, but West is too. Put them both out there together for significant minutes, and that's a tough frontcourt to defend.

I do, however, feel like upgrading at the PF spot was not as imperative as the SG spot. Once Vogel took over last year, I thought Tyler really made a big jump and showed that he would be a capable, if not very good starting PF in the NBA.

McKeyFan
12-21-2011, 12:32 PM
It is beginning to look to me like Bird made a mistake and upgraded maybe the strongest position on the team not realizing the kind of development Tyler was going to make over the summer and now it is too late.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Might need to give Bird the benefit of the doubt that West was the only major acquisition he could legitimately pull off. And he did it with a great contract.

If that's true, then he has put us in a great position: we either find a way to utilize both players on the floor or we trade one of them while their stock is way up for a more strategic piece.

My personal beef is that we did not go after Billups. I would have thrown up to $10 million to get him. He is exactly what we need to play at the next level, even if just for a year or two.

pacers74
12-21-2011, 12:36 PM
As of right now, after the last 2 preseason games if Tyler keeps playing like he did in those games, you can't keep Tyler off of the floor. I say Tyler gets around 30 minutes a game. If West play center or whatever we will have to wait and see.

pacers74
12-21-2011, 12:38 PM
I'd still say the "wing position" is our strongest position.

Ozwalt72
12-21-2011, 12:47 PM
96 minutes a game for bigs...

West 30
Hansbrough 30
Roy 24
And the rest based on matchup for a 4th big. Foster when we need him, or he feels good. Lou or JP (when healthy) otherwise.

PacerPenguins
12-21-2011, 12:55 PM
who cares as long as we win?

funnyguy1105
12-21-2011, 12:57 PM
Does anyone else see a problem developing like I do? I don't think there is anyone on this forum who would argue against the fact that Tyler was by far our best player in these 2 preseason games. He has shown tremendous improvement over last year. That spin move early in the first quarter where he ended up being fouled was a thing of beauty and the man can draw fouls and hit them. I do not see how this team is going to win unless Tyler is getting 30 to 36 minutes a game. Now we have West who is also going to need his minutes but they are playing the same position. How are you going to work that out?

I don't see it as much of a problem as some for two reasons:

1) Tyler is going to be exhausted for the postseason if he is playing 36 minutes a game at his tempo with little space between games.

2) I'm still not convinced Tyler's play is going to be as effective as West's in the postseason. A lot of Tyler's offense comes from being able to draw awkward fouls from his defender and if you look at last postseason he wasn't given those fouls at the same rate as the regular season. People can guard him tougher in the playoffs without worrying about fouling.

Tyler can still be effective with his midrange game but if his shot is off (like most of last year's playoffs) he will again disappear.

West's game on the other hand rely's on solid fundamentals. He is a true veteran that shouldn't have a lot of change from the regular season to the playoffs.

D-BONE
12-21-2011, 01:07 PM
RE: Tyler/West potentially turning into a minutes problem

Not sure, but I am concerned, unless West at C some works as well as some here think it will. If he can't, will we be second guessing not stepping up to the plate for Nene? He would have given us the option to move Roy if need be. I still think he could have played some PF, too. Too early for those considerations. Let's see how West/Tyler pans out.

PR07
12-21-2011, 01:26 PM
Foster's minutes in the regular season will be reduced, but let's not act like he won't play at all.

Gamble1
12-21-2011, 01:27 PM
I was just getting ready to start a thread entitled, "Did Bird Make a Mistake With West?" when I saw your thread and since we are covering much the same ground I will integrate my thoughts here rather than on another thread.


Does anyone else see a problem developing like I do? I don't think there is anyone on this forum who would argue against the fact that Tyler was by far our best player in these 2 preseason games. He has shown tremendous improvement over last year. That spin move early in the first quarter where he ended up being fouled was a thing of beauty and the man can draw fouls and hit them. I do not see how this team is going to win unless Tyler is getting 30 to 36 minutes a game. Now we have West who is also going to need his minutes but they are playing the same position. How are you going to work that out?

It is beginning to look to me like Bird made a mistake and upgraded maybe the strongest position on the team not realizing the kind of development Tyler was going to make over the summer and now it is too late. If Tyler plays like he has West is not a bit better than Tyler and right now not as good (yeah, I know injury). It is beginning to look to me like Tyler and McRoberts could have handled the power forward position just fine and if the preseason is any indication the upgrades were needed elsewhere far worse and the money could have been spent there with better results for the team. We have some guys on this team that need to get their act together fast. If I am Bird I am still shopping for some players but it is late, probably too late.

(I add I think West is going to do fine for us but that does not resolve the problem. Can you play them both at the same time? That is what is going to have to happen to get Tyler sufficient minutes or else we are going to have a problem. Just one man's opinion. You are entitled to yours so don't get mad.)
I understand the concern but this year is different than most. Tyler and West playing 30 minutes is going to take its toll on them and we don't want to play them to much or else they'll be burned out by the post season.

Obtaining West isn't a mistake if he can play some backup center minutes and its lookinig like he can especially in the East. West is a clear upgrade from McBob and thats important. No matter who is on the court we should be able to rely on West and Hans being able to score in the low post and off the pnr. Thats the difference from last year when the Pacers had McBob and Tyler.

Teams in the East will have a handful with Tyler and West and just like last night I expect a lot of teams bigs to get into foul trouble trying to guard the Tyler West combo.

Was the West signing a mistake? Not to me but I am biased..;)

I also think we had very limited options at sg that would have actually upgraded that position.



My personal beef is that we did not go after Billups. I would have thrown up to $10 million to get him. He is exactly what we need to play at the next level, even if just for a year or two.
Totally agree but maybe Billups wouldn't have wanted to come here and on top of that he isn't a long term fix being in his mid 30's. I really hope Collison gets his act together offensively.

On a side note I though Collsion played much better D on Rose than he did during the playoffs.

Tyrion
12-21-2011, 01:28 PM
I totally agree that West can play center against all but a couple centers in the East, but even if that doesn't work out this is the best kind of issue to have. West and Hans are both very professional. This won't be a problem, and if Tyler and one of the back-up bigs turn out to develop into something great it will be extremely easy to trade one of the pfs. West has the perfect contract to trade if it came to that...which I don't think it will.

Our cap space is going to be a huge asset in a couple months.

vnzla81
12-21-2011, 01:29 PM
Calling my shots...David West is our.. back up power forward, yes if Tyler keeps playing the way he is playing there is not reason for him not to be the starter, I am really hoping that Hill starts playing better so we can send DC to the bench with West making our second unit one of the strongest second units in the NBA.


1st unit: Hill,PG,DG,Tyler,Roy

2nd unit: DC,Lance,DJ,West and Foster.

Gamble1
12-21-2011, 01:33 PM
Foster's minutes in the regular season will be reduced, but let's not act like he won't play at all.
I am not expecting Foster to get more than 8-10 minutes on average this year.

PR07
12-21-2011, 01:36 PM
I am not expecting Foster to get more than 8-10 minutes on average this year.

You may be right, but two of the minute projections above didn't have him playing at all.

CableKC
12-21-2011, 01:44 PM
Why not Hansbrough have Hansbrough play some Backup Center minutes?

He appears to be built much stronger, has a much better low-post "bang inside" scoring game and the hustle to match up against the smaller Big Men that we would be going up against that will be going Small Ball.

West appears to be more of a finesse scorer that has a WAY better Mid-Range game.

Gamble1
12-21-2011, 02:03 PM
Why not Hansbrough have Hansbrough play some Backup Center minutes?

He appears to be built much stronger, has a much better low-post "bang inside" scoring game and the hustle to match up against the smaller Big Men that we would be going up against that will be going Small Ball.

West appears to be more of a finesse scorer that has a WAY better Mid-Range game.
Watching both of them play against Boozer last night I would say West was better against Boozer. Again I know this is a small sample size but I think West gives us a better chance against defending centers. I looked at how he muscled Noah a couple of times and it clearly bothered him.

West has a finesse game but he can play strong as well. He gave Noah a shoulder to the chest that was brutal and lead to a easy layup.

Trophy
12-21-2011, 02:08 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if we started the season with Tyler starting while West continues to adjust.

Eventually, West will be our starter and even when he is, Tyler's role will still be big.

I don't expect both Tyler and David to play at the same time all the time, but it'd be a good option.

HickeyS2000
12-21-2011, 02:52 PM
All I can think of when I hear West at the 5 is JO. We ruined him by playing him way too much at C. Since playing either West/Hans at C is the only way to get them both 30 minutes, I will agree that they will/need to play some there. I'm really hoping those minutes are against smaller lineups.

glazedham42
12-21-2011, 02:57 PM
Larry said he wanted to have the deepest bench in the league. He's done it at PF. That's for sure.

imawhat
12-21-2011, 03:09 PM
I can't wait to see West play with the first unit. He is such a good pickup.

BornReady
12-21-2011, 03:18 PM
I'm honestly not too concerned with who starts and whatnot so as long as they each get the time they deserve. That being said, Hansbrough clearly deserves significant time based on how he's been playing. I personally felt as though Hansbrough playing next to West was pretty effective - but yes I don't want West playing too much. I haven't given up on Hibbert yet but man does he need to man up.

Peck
12-21-2011, 04:00 PM
I've got a solution to the min. distribution problem.

Start West & Tyler & let Roy get whatever min. he can when they are not being given to Lou, Jeff or Jeff.

I'm only partially joking.

Hicks
12-21-2011, 04:54 PM
I've got a solution to the min. distribution problem.

Start West & Tyler & let Roy get whatever min. he can when they are not being given to Lou, Jeff or Jeff.

I'm only partially joking.

Sure, if you want to break David West before the season ends. The guy can hold his own against centers in short bursts, but in the long term that will wear his body right out. And I'd say that if he never tore his ACL. That's almost like asking Tyler to be a center.

RWB
12-21-2011, 05:09 PM
I've got a solution to the min. distribution problem.

Start West & Tyler & let Roy get whatever min. he can when they are not being given to Lou, Jeff or Jeff.

I'm only partially joking.

I think we're all down a little on what we've seen from Roy so far, but I believe we'll be singing his praises again after that first game.

Eleazar
12-21-2011, 05:21 PM
Based on only 1 game it appears to me it would be better to start West, and have Tyler coming off the bench. Granted our sample size is 1, so my opinion is subject to change at any moment, but West just seemed to do some of the little things that will help the starters as a whole play more as a team than Hansbrough. At this point Hansbrough still seems to mostly be a one man team. While that isn't always a bad thing, it isn't always what you want especially when you have players as talented as George and Granger, or a player who has the potential to dominate like Hibbert on the floor.

Scot Pollard
12-21-2011, 05:35 PM
He'll be our starting PF and no, it doesn't mean Tyler is less important because he comes off the bench.

Both will get their fair share of minutes.

This has been the plan.

beast23
12-21-2011, 05:50 PM
What a crock of BS.

Hansbrough's biggest problem last year was lack of consistency. So we are going to watch 2 preseason games and proclaim him to be the second coming of Christ.

Give me a break. Hansbrough will always provide you with a consistent effort, probably at a level higher than anyone on the team. But that in no way means that he will be able to provide consistent production.

And that is exactly why West was acquired. We needed an established player capable of playing PF that was pretty much guaranteed to provide the consistency that we required at the position. We had no reason to believe that either of Hansbrough or McRoberts could provide that... they had not been able to do it thus far.

I'm not saying that Hansbrough will never give us what we need night in and night out. I actually believe he will. I just don't know when that will start. Maybe it has started already, with these first two preseason games. Maybe it will start sometime this year and we will all be perfectly comfortable with his consistency by season's end. Or maybe it will be next year. All I know is that I honestly believe it will eventually come.

Another consideration is that this is a condensed season. If at all possible, we want our best players playing just enough minutes to provide wins. Or just enough minutes to know that we aren't going to be able to pull out the win. We want to play all our players to keep our best players as fresh as possible as the season progresses.

But I have no reason to believe Hansbrough's consistency has arrived yet. And that is why we have West. I'm sure as heck glad he is here.

Peck
12-21-2011, 06:15 PM
I think we're all down a little on what we've seen from Roy so far, but I believe we'll be singing his praises again after that first game.

I want to believe you but then I remember that on opening night he will face Greg Monroe.

daschysta
12-21-2011, 06:27 PM
Keep in mind that this is preseason, and more than that preseason is exactly the type of game Psycho-T is made to dominate in, he give 1000 percent effort 1000 percent of the time, most players don't, and that goes doubly for preseason, where tylers stats are likely more inflated than maybe any other non rookie player in the league.

West will get the starting job, but tyler will get the most minutes at PF, west will get his 30 plus minutes at backup center.

something like

PF West- 18- Hans 28- Amundson/ Pendergraph= assorted garbage minutes.
C Hibbert 30- West 12- Jeff 6 (Saving him for the playoffs)

Tyler will be in the Running for 6 moy, wheras west shouldnt have any problem with most centers not named dwight in the east, and he is too quick for most centers to guard on the other end.

daschysta
12-21-2011, 06:30 PM
I want to believe you but then I remember that on opening night he will face Greg Monroe.

Roy played pretty well against monroe last year, if I remember correctly. Roy was getting swarmed by chicagos defense in these first two pre-season games, Detroit won't be nearly as dangerous and cohesive as chicagos defense. When Roy got Noah 1v1 I wasn't down on what he was able to do, however he constantly rushed his shots when gibson/boozer/ another guard/forward surrounded him, blocked passing lanes and Roy panicked a bit.

Chicago is the worst team to make an evaluation about how Roy will perform against most of the league, they are absolutely incredible defensively, and after seeing how much chemistry Rip already has with their offense, I actually have chicago as my frontrunner for this years NBA title. They are simply better than we are, but we have alot of upside, and we'll see how it goes on game 66 this year, and perhaps in the playoffs.

Chicago has maybe the best big man D in the league, and double/ triple teams better than any team i've seen since the pistons title caliber teams half a decade ago. Roy can score 1v1 against noah, and even against Dwight howard, but chicago was just smothering him with bodies, it goes to show that they respect his game, and by seasons end I don't doubt Roy will be hitting open men left and right. These two games are the equivalent or worse, then the first two preseason games of each year, which noone puts any stock in, take the same lesson here.

EDIT

Against Detroit Roy Averaged 13.5 ppg 6.7 rpg 2 apg 1.5 bpg on 48.7% field goals, he was inconsistent, and those numbers do include a monster 29-9-3-2 game, but he's shown that he's at the very least capable of dropping huge numbers on the pistons.

BornReady
12-21-2011, 06:37 PM
What a crock of BS.

Hansbrough's biggest problem last year was lack of consistency. So we are going to watch 2 preseason games and proclaim him to be the second coming of Christ.

Give me a break. Hansbrough will always provide you with a consistent effort, probably at a level higher than anyone on the team. But that in no way means that he will be able to provide consistent production.

And that is exactly why West was acquired. We needed an established player capable of playing PF that was pretty much guaranteed to provide the consistency that we required at the position. We had no reason to believe that either of Hansbrough or McRoberts could provide that... they had not been able to do it thus far.

I'm not saying that Hansbrough will never give us what we need night in and night out. I actually believe he will. I just don't know when that will start. Maybe it has started already, with these first two preseason games. Maybe it will start sometime this year and we will all be perfectly comfortable with his consistency by season's end. Or maybe it will be next year. All I know is that I honestly believe it will eventually come.

Another consideration is that this is a condensed season. If at all possible, we want our best players playing just enough minutes to provide wins. Or just enough minutes to know that we aren't going to be able to pull out the win. We want to play all our players to keep our best players as fresh as possible as the season progresses.

But I have no reason to believe Hansbrough's consistency has arrived yet. And that is why we have West. I'm sure as heck glad he is here.

whoa. you need to relax. the big majority of this thread is just talking about minute distribution.
yes, people are overexcited about Hansbrough, but don't you think you're doing the same by saying "what a crock of bs?"
there's no need to ostracize fans for finally being able to be excited about something.

Pacersalltheway10
12-21-2011, 06:51 PM
I was just getting ready to start a thread entitled, "Did Bird Make a Mistake With West?" when I saw your thread and since we are covering much the same ground I will integrate my thoughts here rather than on another thread.


Does anyone else see a problem developing like I do? I don't think there is anyone on this forum who would argue against the fact that Tyler was by far our best player in these 2 preseason games. He has shown tremendous improvement over last year. That spin move early in the first quarter where he ended up being fouled was a thing of beauty and the man can draw fouls and hit them. I do not see how this team is going to win unless Tyler is getting 30 to 36 minutes a game. Now we have West who is also going to need his minutes but they are playing the same position. How are you going to work that out?

It is beginning to look to me like Bird made a mistake and upgraded maybe the strongest position on the team not realizing the kind of development Tyler was going to make over the summer and now it is too late. If Tyler plays like he has West is not a bit better than Tyler and right now not as good (yeah, I know injury). It is beginning to look to me like Tyler and McRoberts could have handled the power forward position just fine and if the preseason is any indication the upgrades were needed elsewhere far worse and the money could have been spent there with better results for the team. We have some guys on this team that need to get their act together fast. If I am Bird I am still shopping for some players but it is late, probably too late.

Finally, if it is said it is preseason and guys don't get excited about putting out and winning games I say this was not a normal preseason and besides I don't want players on my team that are not trying with all their might to win preseason or on the playground.

(I add I think West is going to do fine for us but that does not resolve the problem. Can you play them both at the same time? That is what is going to have to happen to get Tyler sufficient minutes or else we are going to have a problem. Just one man's opinion. You are entitled to yours so don't get mad.)

Thank you for sparing us another thread of complaining.

daschysta
12-21-2011, 06:55 PM
I've got a solution to the min. distribution problem.

Start West & Tyler & let Roy get whatever min. he can when they are not being given to Lou, Jeff or Jeff.

I'm only partially joking.

I would hope you're joking man. Roy was no worse than alot of our players were, and we were playing against the team which gives him the most trouble of any in the NBA. We were really sloppy as a team, and didn't pass the ball into the post well, even when Roy established great position (which imho he looked much, much better at doing). Roy was able to get off really good, solid shots whenever he had Noah with single coverage, it's early, and he was a bit rusty, but he got GOOD shots that just didn't fall. We know Roy is more than capable of hitting the hooks he got against chicago, they were more on balance, they just didn't fall. Sometimes it happens. Getting judged right off the bat against a swarming, double, triple teaming chicago in the post isn't really the most objective way of doing it.

Last year Roy got bullied into bad shots, and he couldn't do anything about it, based on our very limited sample I saw Roy hold his position and miss shots that we know he's more than capable of making on a regular basis.

It's a mistake to judge based on production in preseason, especially this truncated one. It will lead to Tyler, who looks awesome, getting overrated, and others getting underrated. Tyler was born to dominate exibitions, he treats them like they are a game 7 in a playoff series, he'll be great this year, but I doubt he could pull off 20-10 for any extended period without burning out. I saw a lot of good from Roy, stats non-withstanding. He'll be much improved if he keeps getting the shots he was getting against other teams not as good defensively as Chicago.

Pacer Fan
12-21-2011, 06:56 PM
obviously the Pacers are gonna play small ball at times...nothing new here, just got 2 PF's that are better then in the past few years.

Gamble1
12-21-2011, 06:59 PM
Just look at it like this Peck. Theres no better year to suck a little than this one. Big Roy's contract will atleast be reasonable.

vnzla81
12-21-2011, 07:01 PM
wheras west shouldnt have any problem with most centers not named dwight in the east, and he is too quick for most centers to guard on the other end.

Ok here is a short list of Center West could have trouble with if he plays long minutes at center:

Amare(plays center when they go small)
Tyson Chandler(the new center in NY)
Andrew Bogut
Greg Monroe
Brook Lopez
Noah
Horford
KG(if he plays center with the Celtics)
Bargnani?

Just to name few.

righteouscool
12-21-2011, 07:04 PM
Ok here is a short list of Center West could have trouble with if he plays long minutes at center:

Amare(plays center when they go small)
Tyson Chandler(the new center in NY)
Andrew Bogut
Greg Monroe
Brook Lopez
Noah
Horford
KG(if he plays center with the Celtics)
Bargnani?

Just to name few.

almost half of those players are power forwards...

Peck
12-21-2011, 07:13 PM
Ok here is a short list of Center West could have trouble with if he plays long minutes at center:

Amare(plays center when they go small)
Tyson Chandler(the new center in NY)
Andrew Bogut
Greg Monroe
Brook Lopez
Noah
Horford
KG(if he plays center with the Celtics)
Bargnani?

Just to name few.

Which one of those does Roy not have trouble with?

vnzla81
12-21-2011, 07:22 PM
Which one of those does Roy not have trouble with?

You tell me I don't know :dunno:

Gamble1
12-21-2011, 07:24 PM
Ok here is a short list of Center West could have trouble with if he plays long minutes at center:

Amare(plays center when they go small)
Tyson Chandler(the new center in NY)
Andrew Bogut
Greg Monroe
Brook Lopez
Noah
Horford
KG(if he plays center with the Celtics)
Bargnani?

Just to name few.
Lopez is a sieve and Chandler has no offensive game outside of dunking. Bogut and and maybe Monroe would be tough but like Peck said those guys give Roy problems. Also you have to factor in that West would be going against some backup centers as well.

Pacer Fan
12-21-2011, 07:35 PM
Ok here is a short list of Center West could have trouble with if he plays long minutes at center:

Amare(plays center when they go small)
Tyson Chandler(the new center in NY)
Andrew Bogut
Greg Monroe
Brook Lopez
Noah
Horford
KG(if he plays center with the Celtics)
Bargnani?

Just to name few.


Which one of those does Roy not have trouble with?

Any one of them that don't poke him in the back....:happydanc JK

Hicks
12-21-2011, 07:56 PM
I want to believe you but then I remember that on opening night he will face Greg Monroe.

Yeah, the power forward sized version of Roy Hibbert.

D-BONE
12-21-2011, 07:56 PM
I want to believe you but then I remember that on opening night he will face Greg Monroe.

Ouch! Another physical bruiser. Not Roy's forte. He has to be able to find away to at least break even with his strengths relative to the weaknesses in his game these types expose. He does not have to dominate. He just has to contribute.

BlueNGold
12-21-2011, 07:57 PM
But I have no reason to believe Hansbrough's consistency has arrived yet. And that is why we have West. I'm sure as heck glad he is here.

I'm glad we have West, but I must say, keep feeding the beast.

Hicks
12-21-2011, 07:58 PM
Yeah, Roy sucks so bad that Chicago made him their first priority on defense. Makes sense.

Some of you are way, way too hard on him.

Peck
12-21-2011, 08:11 PM
Yeah, the power forward sized version of Roy Hibbert.

6'11" 250 lbs hmmmmm.....

Dwight Howard 6'11" 265 lbs
Joakim Noah 6'11" 232 lbs
DeMarcus Cousins 6'11" 270 lbs

I assume that you think all of the above are power forwards then?

Pacergeek
12-21-2011, 08:13 PM
Yeah, Roy sucks so bad that Chicago made him their first priority on defense. Makes sense.

Some of you are way, way too hard on him.

I think some posters are short changing Noah. I hate him as much as everybody else, but you cannot deny his talent. Noah is one of the top centers in the east and will probably be an all star. If Roy struggles against someone like Javale Mcgee, then I will be concerned.

xBulletproof
12-21-2011, 08:13 PM
Yeah, Roy sucks so bad that Chicago made him their first priority on defense. Makes sense.

Some of you are way, way too hard on him.

Actually I believe they just made ANYTHING inside a priority. The packed it in regardless, whether it was a driving player or a post up. It wasn't Roy, it was challenging us to hit jump shots.

BlueNGold
12-21-2011, 08:19 PM
The Bulls are a tough defensive team...and defense is ahead of offensive systems at the moment unless you are familiar with the offense and players like the Bulls. People need to keep in mind that Vogel has never had an opportunity to practice due to the lockout. No summer league. New players. Young players. It's tough, but easy to see what's happening. The team hasn't had nearly enough time to gel.

Also, FWIW, Tyler is the kind of guy who will thrive in chaos. That's his game anyway. We might see the other guys come along once guys get used to playing their system.

Major Cold
12-21-2011, 08:22 PM
So we are going to watch 2 preseason games and proclaim him to be the second coming of Christ.



If he was that we would be winning...

Hicks
12-21-2011, 08:43 PM
6'11" 250 lbs hmmmmm.....

Dwight Howard 6'11" 265 lbs
Joakim Noah 6'11" 232 lbs
DeMarcus Cousins 6'11" 270 lbs

I assume that you think all of the above are power forwards then?

It's a figure of speech. He's like Roy, but smaller. Is that better?

D-BONE
12-21-2011, 08:49 PM
Actually I believe they just made ANYTHING inside a priority. The packed it in regardless, whether it was a driving player or a post up. It wasn't Roy, it was challenging us to hit jump shots.

Good call. And we better get used to it. And if we don't start making some, it will be an arduous year given expectations. Wish we'd bring in a shooter.

D-BONE
12-21-2011, 08:52 PM
It's a figure of speech. He's like Roy, but smaller. Is that better?ii

I think he's a much more accomplished rebounder than Roy, especially on the offensive end. Roy obviously has the height advantage, but he struggles with these guys because of their strength and low center of gravity. That's part of the reason he doesn't get deeper post position. But, Monroe certainly is not as rugged as Noah, so it will be interesting to see how the matchup plays out, assuming they guard each other.

Hoop
12-21-2011, 10:03 PM
I think people get to caught up in positions, PF-C, SG-SF. Just call them Bigs and Wings, we now have excellent players at all those positions.

There are very few true centers are in the league anyway. Roy is one of the few, but I don't think he is ever going to be a real high minute type player, It's just crucial we get Roy quality touches when he is in the game.

West and Hans on the floor together will work out just fine for long stretches depending on match ups, I'm looking forward to it.

owl
12-21-2011, 10:10 PM
I've got a solution to the min. distribution problem.

Start West & Tyler & let Roy get whatever min. he can when they are not being given to Lou, Jeff or Jeff.

I'm only partially joking.


I wonder how confident Bird is in Roy, considering the Gasol rumours.

Scot Pollard
12-21-2011, 10:29 PM
The mindset of people on Pacers Digest changes every damn day.

I don't know what more I can say other than people are being bipolar.

It's like people don't WANT to be excited about the regular season.

We're going to be a hell of a team and everyone recognizes us. The buzz is back in Indy that hasn't been here for quite some time.

People saying we're not going to make the playoffs, what's wrong with us? Lighten up! I know it's a matter of opinion, but we're better than it seems. I know it's hard to believe that this team once with Jim O'Brien and Troy Murphy, Travis Diener, etc. is now looking to compete?

I have never seen anyone take preseason so seriously. I would rather have the outing we had than see key guys go down with injuries because they gave it their all in games that don't matter. There's a reason teams don't play their better players that many minutes and play scrubs.

I'm sorry, but get real..... :rolleyes:

Eleazar
12-22-2011, 03:28 PM
I think some posters are short changing Noah. I hate him as much as everybody else, but you cannot deny his talent. Noah is one of the top centers in the east and will probably be an all star. If Roy struggles against someone like Javale Mcgee, then I will be concerned.

Defensively yes, but Noah is about as good on offense as Jeff Foster, just a lot more energetic when he dunks.