PDA

View Full Version : Will Bird waive Price



Jose Slaughter
12-19-2011, 12:17 AM
http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/Indiana.htm

The above web site list Price's 2011-2012 salary as 884,293.

However only 200,000 is guaranteed if he is released prior to the start of the season. I realize that is a very modest savings of just 664,293.

Is Price & what he brings to this team worth the small amount of money he would make or could that money be better used on someone else?

Winner
12-19-2011, 12:19 AM
I say waive him and sign a better third string point guard. Travis Diener?

Hicks
12-19-2011, 12:21 AM
I don't think he should. I don't think he will.

ChristianDudley
12-19-2011, 12:22 AM
At that price (no pun intended lol), I'd say keep him. He's worth every penny I'd say.

Sookie
12-19-2011, 12:24 AM
I would hope that if he's going to waive him, he'd do it now/soon (or perhaps earlier) so Price would have an opportunity to get on a different team before opening game starts. Just because that's the correct way to treat players.

But seeing as Lance is, to put it nicely, a work in progress, and we've just traded our backup shooting guard, meaning Hill is going to have to play pretty much all of those minutes, I'd say waiving Price wouldn't be the brightest idea.

I also doubt you put up with a season of Price coming off an injury just so that you can waive him when he's fully healthy.

xBulletproof
12-19-2011, 12:24 AM
As far as guaranteed contracts go, I believe we still have an open roster spot. Even if we want to sign a free agent it won't change much. If we had a full roster of guaranteed contracts and he found a player he wanted, it wouldn't shock me however.

D squared fan
12-19-2011, 12:24 AM
I don't think it ever crossed Birds mind

Dr. Awesome
12-19-2011, 12:26 AM
You know, I don't get it.

I mean, AJ Price is no all-star, but as a third string PG he is damn good. It seems as if all of a sudden our third string PG can't make mistakes? I mean, obviously that is ideal, but not realistic.

I cant think of another third string PG who can come in and take over the game like he can. I mean, obviously his game has a lot of flaws, but every third string PG is coming with flaws, I'd much rather have his game in that slot than most if not all the other third string PGs out there.

Dr. Awesome
12-19-2011, 12:31 AM
This may be a better way of putting it: How many third string PGs single handedly change the momentum of the game?

Granted, he killed it a few times as well, but with a third string PG your always going to have to take the good with the bad. If anything, when AJ is in black hole mode it should fall on Vogel to take him out.

Kraft
12-19-2011, 12:31 AM
I think it just depends on whether or not he needs the roster spot. Otherwise, why cut someone making minimum wage when your Nos. 2 and 3 PGs might turn out to be more useful as shooting guards?

Pacer Fan
12-19-2011, 12:33 AM
As I've mention on here before about his 200k. I would waive him.

jeffg-body
12-19-2011, 12:34 AM
As far as a third string PG I think it would be stupid to waive Price. Sure he has some flaws to his game but he is a guy that works hard and will try his hardest when called upon. If DC were to have an injury that would require a long layoff I believe that Price could step up to the back-up role and play in an acceptable fashion better than anything that is out there right now.

Sookie
12-19-2011, 12:38 AM
This may be a better way of putting it: How many third string PGs single handedly change the momentum of the game?

Granted, he killed it a few times as well, but with a third string PG your always going to have to take the good with the bad. If anything, when AJ is in black hole mode it should fall on Vogel to take him out.

If Vogel wouldn't put Price in the game where he is the only person who can/is willing to score in a half court offense (come on, Foster, Josh, rush, and Dahntay...and Josh was hurt.) you wouldn't have to worry about "black hole mode" for AJ. (Not really Vogel's fault there either, he was under pressure to change the SG and PF spot, which took away the offense in the second unit.)

When he's with other players who can score, he's much better. In fact, the last five minutes of game two he was fantastic..he could actually run an offense.

I don't like Price because he's an all star talent. He's clearly not. He was hindered last year, but he is a guy that actually doesn't have too many flaws, and his best asset is running an offense, which he has rarely been able to do here..and that playoff game showed he can. (Although I curse Jim O'brien's name every time I see him drive to the basket and kick it out for a three..) I like Price for many of the same reasons I like Rush. You win with guys like AJ. Solid, and an incredibly high BBall IQ..which I find to be more important than any skill (other than dribbling) for a PG. It's not a coincidence that our record is significantly better when Price plays than when he doesn't.

Yes, he can "get going" and swing the momentum of a game. That's also been a quality of his I've always liked, but that's not his best quality. And it really isn't the way he should be played. Although if it happens while he's playing, good for us.

Psyren
12-19-2011, 12:39 AM
No, Price is good as a 3rd string PG.

Hes not great, but you can do a lot worse when it comes to a 3rd string PG

Naptown_Seth
12-19-2011, 12:39 AM
This may be a better way of putting it: How many third string PGs single handedly change the momentum of the game?

Granted, he killed it a few times as well, but with a third string PG your always going to have to take the good with the bad. If anything, when AJ is in black hole mode it should fall on Vogel to take him out.
And as I would have done with Josh and Rush, isn't it realistic to say "lets see what these guys can do with more time under Vogel and further away from the JOB era"?

Some of what Price and the rest of the team was doing was created by JOB and his ability to deny PT if he didn't like what he saw. Guys could play well and get yanked.

We might as well dump George and Tyler too since they struggled to show much with JOB in the way. And even post-JOB those 2 were up and down as you might expect.

I just hate that JOB was such a problem and was ruining the chance to do something with surprisingly cheap talent and right after you finally remove him (at least a year too late) you then start dumping all the guys he was holding back.

AJ can play as far less of a scoring type of PG because he has done it. It's not crazy to think that JOB was part of the problem there and that given a different system and focus that he could still return to his UConn style of PG play.

Sookie
12-19-2011, 12:51 AM
And as I would have done with Josh and Rush, isn't it realistic to say "lets see what these guys can do with more time under Vogel and further away from the JOB era"?

Some of what Price and the rest of the team was doing was created by JOB and his ability to deny PT if he didn't like what he saw. Guys could play well and get yanked.

We might as well dump George and Tyler too since they struggled to show much with JOB in the way. And even post-JOB those 2 were up and down as you might expect.

I just hate that JOB was such a problem and was ruining the chance to do something with surprisingly cheap talent and right after you finally remove him (at least a year too late) you then start dumping all the guys he was holding back.

AJ can play as far less of a scoring type of PG because he has done it. It's not crazy to think that JOB was part of the problem there and that given a different system and focus that he could still return to his UConn style of PG play.

Last five minutes of Game 2. It's still there. JOB hasn't ruined him.

I'm really surprised he didn't get as much credit for that as he should have. Yea, he crapped the bed at first. (AJ doesn't like surprises..)

But it's hard as heck to screw up that badly, and come up as big as he did down the stretch. Especially as a second year player, playing in his first ever playoff crunch time. We didn't win because no one else stepped up with him. He played flawless point guard basketball, the AJ Price that I've watched for years, the only mistake was allowing PG to drive to the basket twice...and I wouldn't call that a mistake it just didn't work out. (BTW: the open three from Kelso was Hans's fault. Tyler was late doubling which forced Price to front Boozer..because Rose had already gotten rid of the ball.. so that he (boozer) didn't get a wide open layup. Then no one switched to cover AJ's man..leaving AJ to scramble.)

Pacer Fan
12-19-2011, 01:00 AM
I'm not hating on Price and if he is here this year, that's fine. I just know that we have seen about the best he can offer and I think there is alot of talent that can be tested for the same or less money. Like a Ben Hansbrough or Jacob Pullen, Demetri McCamey for example. Several really good PG went undrafted.Also, Scotty Hopson, David Lighty, LaceDarius Dunn are some SG's. I know most if not all are playing overseas, but I'm sure some have opt-out clauses.

beast23
12-19-2011, 01:46 AM
If the Pacers waive Price before opening night, they save 560K, only paying him his 200K guaranteed salary. The depth chart probably reads Collison, Hill, Stephenson/Price.

If the Pacers are ever going to give Stephenson an opportunity, from a front office perspective, then Vogel is probably forced to do it if they do not have Price on the roster.

Barring an injury, Collison and Hill will probably consume 40 minutes or more of the PG minutes anyway. Is there really much room for Price if the Pacers are going to give Stephenson minutes to give him an appropriate evaluation?

I would go ahead and waive Price. They certainly aren't going to get a second round pick for him. And, in another year, Price is likely to be out of the league anyway.

We don't really need to roster spot, but we don't really need Price either. So, why not save 560K?

RamBo_Lamar
12-19-2011, 01:55 AM
Price has a big heart, and I like him. He's a good player, and I hope we keep him.

Eleazar
12-19-2011, 02:00 AM
If the Pacers waive Price before opening night, they save 560K, only paying him his 200K guaranteed salary. The depth chart probably reads Collison, Hill, Stephenson/Price.

If the Pacers are ever going to give Stephenson an opportunity, from a front office perspective, then Vogel is probably forced to do it if they do not have Price on the roster.

Barring an injury, Collison and Hill will probably consume 40 minutes or more of the PG minutes anyway. Is there really much room for Price if the Pacers are going to give Stephenson minutes to give him an appropriate evaluation?

I would go ahead and waive Price. They certainly aren't going to get a second round pick for him. And, in another year, Price is likely to be out of the league anyway.

We don't really need to roster spot, but we don't really need Price either. So, why not save 560K?

Because since we traded Rush, our only acceptable back-up SG is Hill.

Peck
12-19-2011, 02:18 AM
I think a lot of this is going to depend on how Price is at accepting a limited role in his 3rd year.

I think the writing is on the wall that he is never going to be anything here other than a spot player so if he's ok with that then there is nobody your going to bring in any cheaper who is better and going to have to learn the plays.

Now on the other hand he may not like his situation and if that is the case then by all means, cut the strings.

BornReady
12-19-2011, 04:31 AM
I'd like to keep Price. I think he's been a really solid player for us.

Heisenberg
12-19-2011, 04:59 AM
At the price, you keep Joe Camel

spazzxb
12-19-2011, 06:25 AM
And as I would have done with Josh and Rush, isn't it realistic to say "lets see what these guys can do with more time under Vogel and further away from the JOB era"?

Some of what Price and the rest of the team was doing was created by JOB and his ability to deny PT if he didn't like what he saw. Guys could play well and get yanked.

We might as well dump George and Tyler too since they struggled to show much with JOB in the way. And even post-JOB those 2 were up and down as you might expect.

I just hate that JOB was such a problem and was ruining the chance to do something with surprisingly cheap talent and right after you finally remove him (at least a year too late) you then start dumping all the guys he was holding back.

AJ can play as far less of a scoring type of PG because he has done it. It's not crazy to think that JOB was part of the problem there and that given a different system and focus that he could still return to his UConn style of PG play.

Having trouble figuring out how to exist without JOB to kick around? These guys were never as good as you thought they were, no one broke them. People never should have made Josh Mcroberts there lightening rod for why the old coach was so horrible. This particular excuse just annoys the hell out of me. We needed a new coach, however it is also true that the team just wasn't very good.

McKeyFan
12-19-2011, 07:45 AM
I'm an AJ fan.

Personally, I'd start him over Collison. Not because AJ is great, but because DC is a score first point guard, and hasn't shown himself to be particularly clutch down the stretch.

AJ can be clutch, and he CAN distribute the ball decently at times. Now, it's too bad that we haven't seen that very consistently from him. And because of that, my real preference is for us to acquire a top talent point guard. But those are hard to come by.

In the meantime, I like having AJ around. When he comes in, I don't think, "Oh no, could be bad." I think, "Hmmm. He just may light it up."

King Tuts Tomb
12-19-2011, 07:53 AM
Waive a serviceable third guard to save $600,000? If you're cutting costs like that then you shouldn't own an NBA team.

MillerTime
12-19-2011, 08:18 AM
We shouldn't wavie him.

If he has not spot on this team, I'm hoping we can move him for at least a 2nd round pick. He's not a bad player, at all. There just isn't any room left for him with Collison, Hill and Stephenson around

1984
12-19-2011, 08:34 AM
Why? There is no benefit, we have to spend the money and we needs to fill our roster. You'd rather keep Famous?

Major Cold
12-19-2011, 08:45 AM
And as I would have done with Josh and Rush, isn't it realistic to say "lets see what these guys can do with more time under Vogel and further away from the JOB era"?

Some of what Price and the rest of the team was doing was created by JOB and his ability to deny PT if he didn't like what he saw. Guys could play well and get yanked.

We might as well dump George and Tyler too since they struggled to show much with JOB in the way. And even post-JOB those 2 were up and down as you might expect.

I just hate that JOB was such a problem and was ruining the chance to do something with surprisingly cheap talent and right after you finally remove him (at least a year too late) you then start dumping all the guys he was holding back.

AJ can play as far less of a scoring type of PG because he has done it. It's not crazy to think that JOB was part of the problem there and that given a different system and focus that he could still return to his UConn style of PG play.

But you can't have 3 player projects coming off the bench and try to make a rise in the standings.

Rush was what we needed as the second wing off the bench, but something is was the reason he was shipped.

McRoberts wanted a lengthy contract, something that Bird was not handing out to anyone.

Price is horrible in the PnR, worse than DC. Him getting minutes over Ford last year was a joke.

I do not care about the knee of a backup second rounder with a bum knee, and little promise for that much more improvement.

But as a third string 1, it is too late to seek out another. Might as well let him sit for insurance. This is most likely his last year with us.

D-BONE
12-19-2011, 09:16 AM
AJ is more than adequate behind Collison/Hill. Lance is NOT (IMO) a point guard. Hence, you waive AJ and you have only two legit PG options.

Mackey_Rose
12-19-2011, 09:26 AM
Waiving Price because $600K of his contract is not guaranteed would be ridiculous. The Simon family has never shown themselves to be that cheap.

MillerTime
12-19-2011, 09:37 AM
We shouldn't wavie him.

If he has not spot on this team, I'm hoping we can move him for at least a 2nd round pick. He's not a bad player, at all. There just isn't any room left for him with Collison, Hill and Stephenson around

Mackey_Rose
12-19-2011, 09:39 AM
At this point, there is no reason to believe that Stephenson is a better player than Price. None.

owl
12-19-2011, 10:27 AM
I also doubt you put up with a season of Price coming off an injury just so that you can waive him when he's fully healthy.


I would hope not. He was decent playing on 1 and a 1/2 legs. I like what AJ brings to the table.

Slick Pinkham
12-19-2011, 10:39 AM
Without summer camp, without a long training camp, and without extended practice time to determine if Lance can handle any minutes at all at PG in case of injury, I don't think you can cut AJ. An unspoken but real factor also is that you never know if Lance may screw up again off the court.

ksuttonjr76
12-19-2011, 11:12 AM
Having trouble figuring out how to exist without JOB to kick around? These guys were never as good as you thought they were, no one broke them. People never should have made Josh Mcroberts there lightening rod for why the old coach was so horrible. This particular excuse just annoys the hell out of me. We needed a new coach, however it is also true that the team just wasn't very good.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I thought the team was coached wrong given the talent we had. JOB was a horriible coach, who had a horrible system, and who refused to understand the skills of his players. When old players (Rasho, Posey, Watson, etc) are getting more PT over the younger players with promise due to the system or we sacrifice defense for offense (Murphy and Dunleavy), then there's a problem. IMHO, this team should have made the playoffs SOONER than it did. H*ll...if JOB wasn't fired last season we WOULDN'T have made the playoffs. I wanted JOB fired since the 2009-2010 season.

Let's keep it real. Teams don't go from "isn't very good" to "Top 5 projection in EC" with only two good (I don't want to say great) signings if the team didn't already have the talent to begin with.

ksuttonjr76
12-19-2011, 11:18 AM
Without summer camp, without a long training camp, and without extended practice time to determine if Lance can handle any minutes at all at PG in case of injury, I don't think you can cut AJ. An unspoken but real factor also is that you never know if Lance may screw up again off the court.

And? That comment can be applied to every player on the roster. Let the past be the past.

EDIT: While I'm thinking about it, I felt that Lance was a very POSITIVE influence during the offeseason.

beast23
12-19-2011, 11:39 AM
Waiving Price because $600K of his contract is not guaranteed would be ridiculous. The Simon family has never shown themselves to be that cheap.

If you have no plans of using a player, then why keep him? Why was Price signed to a "team option" to begin with, with only a portion of his salary guaranteed if TPTB did not want the option of setting Price free if he was not in their future? That is the main purpose of a team option.

However, I do agree with your later post that there is no evidence whatsoever that Stephenson is as good as, or better than Price.

As far as another poster's comment regarding the SG position, we have plenty of players capable of providing minutes at SG, including George, Hill, Granger, DJones, Stephenson. Granted, would not want to see some of these players at SG for extended minutes, but they are certainly capable of filling in for a few minutes per game.

There have been times that I thought Price was a better fit for what the Pacers need at SG than Collison, but that doesn't seem to be the opinion of TPTB. It's kind of like downsizing homes; if you aren't going to use it, then donate it for someone to use elsewhere. With a player you aren't going to use that has no value, you set him free.

vnzla81
12-19-2011, 12:01 PM
I would cut him and never look back, he is just not that good.

Ozwalt72
12-19-2011, 12:19 PM
One injury is all it takes for him to get a pretty good role this season.

90'sNBARocked
12-19-2011, 12:30 PM
But you can't have 3 player projects coming off the bench and try to make a rise in the standings.

Rush was what we needed as the second wing off the bench, but something is was the reason he was shipped.

McRoberts wanted a lengthy contract, something that Bird was not handing out to anyone.

Price is horrible in the PnR, worse than DC. Him getting minutes over Ford last year was a joke.

I do not care about the knee of a backup second rounder with a bum knee, and little promise for that much more improvement.

But as a third string 1, it is too late to seek out another. Might as well let him sit for insurance. This is most likely his last year with us.


As the last true TJ Ford apologist, I agree wholeheartedly and never understood the bolded point

I have always thought , nothing against AJ, but Ford was/is light years ahead of AJ in terms of talent

Apparently San Antonio, who has been known for talent evalutation thinks he can contribute

90'sNBARocked
12-19-2011, 12:33 PM
At this point, there is no reason to believe that Stephenson is a better player than Price. None.

using that anology bro

There is no reason to believe Aj is a better player than Stephenson

None

The love fest for AJ is quite humerous'

He is a decent player , and a nice guy, but could be replaced by any 2nd round pick

Frostwolf
12-19-2011, 01:01 PM
using that anology bro

There is no reason to believe Aj is a better player than Stephenson


analogy

humorous

and that isn't even an analogy. do you even know what he said? he said you cannot say stephenson is a better player than price right now, not that stephenson is not a better player than aj price.

there is no reason to believe stephenson is a better player than aj price because lance never played any meaningful minutes outside of garbage time, and hence we do not know how his play will hold up in meaningful game situations. aj price has played in playoff games and has played significant meaningful minutes. we know what he brings to the table in real game situations. we do not have the same information about lance.

CableKC
12-19-2011, 01:10 PM
The only reason to cut him is if there is a need to clear a roster spot. If there isn't a need, then why waste the money?

Slick Pinkham
12-19-2011, 01:11 PM
And? That comment can be applied to every player on the roster. Let the past be the past.

EDIT: While I'm thinking about it, I felt that Lance was a very POSITIVE influence during the offeseason.

I'm all for people reforming/restructuring their life, and I hope that Lance is on the right path. However, you cannot realistically think that the risks of bad behavior are equal for every player.

A great summer can do wonders, but the last real games our team played included the following announcement on April 10, 2011: "He'll be the fourth point guard through the playoffs," Vogel said. "This is being done for disciplinary reasons."

Not every player on the roster has this kind of track record:

was such a knucklehead in high school that it negatively affected his college recruitment, during which time and time again he left behind a cloud of improper benefits/ illegal behavior

such a knucklehead that he was asked to leave a junior national team "for chemistry reasons"

such a knucklehead in college that teammates and coaches were not upset that he was a 1-and-done

such a knucklehead that he slid to pick #40, and

such a knucklehead that many people on here wanted him cut after the last incident, only to be followed by Vogel's statement about his "ongoing maturity issues"

I hope he is dependable and that past performance doesn't indicate future value. I'm sure that Lawrence Taylor will stay off the coke, Kirstie Ally will get skinny and stay that way, and Alec Baldwin has learned to control his temper. It's all good!

King Tuts Tomb
12-19-2011, 01:21 PM
I would cut him and never look back, he is just not that good.

Third string point guards usually aren't that good, and they usually cost about $800,000, give or take a few hundred grand.

Does anyone truly think cutting Price and replacing him with anyone else will win or lose us even one game?

Strummer
12-19-2011, 01:42 PM
I'm all for people reforming/restructuring their life, and I hope that Lance is on the right path. However, you cannot realistically think that the risks of bad behavior are equal for every player.

A great summer can do wonders, but the last real games our team played included the following announcement on April 10, 2011: "He'll be the fourth point guard through the playoffs," Vogel said. "This is being done for disciplinary reasons."

Not every player on the roster has this kind of track record:

was such a knucklehead in high school that it negatively affected his college recruitment, during which time and time again he left behind a cloud of improper benefits/ illegal behavior

such a knucklehead that he was asked to leave a junior national team "for chemistry reasons"

such a knucklehead in college that teammates and coaches were not upset that he was a 1-and-done

such a knucklehead that he slid to pick #40, and

such a knucklehead that many people on here wanted him cut after the last incident, only to be followed by Vogel's statement about his "ongoing maturity issues"

I hope he is dependable and that past performance doesn't indicate future value. I'm sure that Lawrence Taylor will stay off the coke, Kirstie Ally will get skinny and stay that way, and Alec Baldwin has learned to control his temper. It's all good!

AJ Price suspended from UCONN for the 2005-2006 season.

AJ Price charged with 3 felonies and a misdemeanor.

AJ Price sentenced to 18 months of probation and 400 hours of community service.

Why are you only trashing Lance?

the link (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2224935)

Sookie
12-19-2011, 01:48 PM
using that anology bro

There is no reason to believe Aj is a better player than Stephenson

None

The love fest for AJ is quite humerous'

He is a decent player , and a nice guy, but could be replaced by any 2nd round pick

Fine, I'm just going to say it.

Lance has been terrible. TERRIBLE. every time he comes into the game.

Sure, he has one fancy play that "show cases his court vision" (or his intense need to be a show boat), but for the most part, he's been awful. Price on one leg was considerably better. Price as a rookie...no comparison.

The only reason why people think he's good, is because they got annoyed at our two young point guards, because they were struggling at times because Collison was put in a rough situation and Price was coming off an injury (and then later put in a hard situation) And then Lance would make one good play - and it'd usually be a bad decision that worked out for him and looked nice - and try hard on defense and people thought he was a world beater, and essentially ignored everything else he did wrong.

He's a project because he has a lot of streetball talent. That's completely different than organized basketball, and the likelihood Lance ever makes the transition is slim to none. (although better if he plays as a two guard rather than a 1) Then you have the whole character issue.

There isn't a love fest for AJ. Only a very few people think he should have a consistent role this season. There's a love fest for Lance. A guy who has been nothing but trouble since he's got here, and hasn't proved a darn thing on the floor. But yet people will claim "he's the best player/most talented player etc.." sorry, not seeing it. He's flashy and ball dominant, and we'll lose if he plays significant minutes.

And let me be clear, I don't dislike Lance because he may take away minutes from Price. (DC is one of my favorite players on the team) If Price weren't on the team, I'd still watch the Pacers because I love Frank, PG, DC, Roy, Tyler, Danny, and I even like DJones (just..on the bench). I don't know much about Hill but I have a feeling I'll like him too. My problem with Lance is he way he plays basketball, and certain off court situations.

And TJ was terrible too. I don't even know how that's debatable. And that rookie they drafted will probably be playing over him by the end of the season, even if TJ plays well, he's a terrible match for Ginobili.

edit: Because the laptop incident was six years ago. He actually took his punishment, has never been considered a team cancer, and his only issue since was missing a practice. And didn't follow up the laptop incident with repeated issues. If Lance goes six years without another issue, he'd probably no longer be considered a problem..

vnzla81
12-19-2011, 01:57 PM
Third string point guards usually aren't that good, and they usually cost about $800,000, give or take a few hundred grand.

Does anyone truly think cutting Price and replacing him with anyone else will win or lose us even one game?

I rather give that Money to a veteran or even Diener, at least he knew how to pass the ball and shoot when needed, AJ ball hogging and mistake making doesn't help us win games, he is just a bad point guard that's it.

BornReady
12-19-2011, 02:11 PM
I would cut him and never look back, he is just not that good.

My question to you is what do you expect out of a 3rd string PG? Are other 3rd string PGs on opposing teams better than Price?

vnzla81
12-19-2011, 02:21 PM
My question to you is what do you expect out of a 3rd string PG? Are other 3rd string PGs on opposing teams better than Price?

The point is that we have players that can fill that position, Lance can fill that position and all he has to do to be like AJ is ball hog, shoot threes in a low percentage and turn the ball over when needed, I don't think is that hard for any other player to play like AJ I'm sorry but he sucks.

ksuttonjr76
12-19-2011, 02:33 PM
A great summer can do wonders, but the last real games our team played included the following announcement on April 10, 2011: "He'll be the fourth point guard through the playoffs," Vogel said. "This is being done for disciplinary reasons."

For all we know, he missed some team practices or flights. We have NOTHING to indicate what was the nature of his violation was.


was such a knucklehead in high school that it negatively affected his college recruitment, during which time and time again he left behind a cloud of improper benefits/ illegal behavior

He had his choice of Arizona, Maryland, St. Johns, and Kansaas. Plus, he was cleared by the NCAA which allowed him to play for Cincinnati.


such a knucklehead that he was asked to leave a junior national team "for chemistry reasons"

One thing I realize about Stephenson, he's very a boostful individual.


such a knucklehead in college that teammates and coaches were not upset that he was a 1-and-done

This has got to be the DUMBEST reason to call someone a knucklehead :rolleyes:.


such a knucklehead that he slid to pick #40, and

So those players who are drafted after him or go undrafted are bigger knuckleheads, huh?


such a knucklehead that many people on here wanted him cut after the last incident, only to be followed by Vogel's statement about his "ongoing maturity issues"

He IS young, and I do expect him to make stupid mistakes. The fans of Indiana have the right to the opinion of wanting him cut, because of being fearful of another Jackson and Tinsley situations. However, Lance has done NOTHING since to indiciate this will be an ongoing behavior. If anything, he shown that he's trying to move past that mistake, learn from it, and trying to be a positive impact on his team.

Wow...we have WAAAAYYYYY too many people who think they're holier than thou on this forum.

tadscout
12-19-2011, 02:43 PM
I find it silly we are even worrying about this, when we still have 2 roster slots open.

Justin Tyme
12-19-2011, 03:02 PM
I find it silly we are even worrying about this, when we still have 2 roster slots open.


Bingo, we have a winner.

Not to mention the Pacers have kept 4 PG's numerous times.

beast23
12-19-2011, 04:00 PM
I find it silly we are even worrying about this, when we still have 2 roster slots open.
Or, the fact that it is being met with widely mixed emotions leads one to a conclusion. If I can borrow a term from Satan, it just shows how irrelevant Price is.

Naptown_Seth
12-19-2011, 05:26 PM
Having trouble figuring out how to exist without JOB to kick around? These guys were never as good as you thought they were, no one broke them. People never should have made Josh Mcroberts there lightening rod for why the old coach was so horrible. This particular excuse just annoys the hell out of me. We needed a new coach, however it is also true that the team just wasn't very good.
If they weren't very good then how did the new coach instantly win a lot more with them?

Why does that push to the playoffs, the winning record under Vogel, and the quality effort against the Bulls equate to "just weren't very good"?

Of course they were, they actually played pretty good ball for all of Vogel's run other than during the Lance experiment: 1-5 when he played 10 minutes, 3-9 when he played at all, 17-9 when he didn't play and Vogel was coaching. 20-18 under Vogel in total.

From that you walked away with "the players just weren't very good"?


JOB thought that Paul George stunk too in case you weren't aware. I watched him chew him out 15 seconds after he entered that last Orlando game. And as far as I could tell PG hadn't blown any kind of switch that would warrant that kind of reaction.

Hibbert went into the tank under JOB after his quick start, and then magically started to recover when JOB left.


But I'm just leaning on an excuse because the 2.5 months of non-JOB ball told you everything you need to know about how this group would play under Vogel, how each player could actually perform under a different coach.


Reminds me how people trashed the Henderson pick due to his play under Larry Brown. Suddenly Gerald becomes a pretty solid player the instant Larry is fired.



What kills me the most is that Digest had so many people ready to kick Carlisle to the curb because his conservative offense was holding guys like Tinsley back, and once RC was gone we'd see the real Tinsley despite Rick's strong W-L record. But now when it comes to a bunch of young players we might as well dump them 3 months after dumping the coach mid-season because we've seen enough.

It's not a consistent approach.



Don't worry, these guys will all flop elsewhere and you can make me eat crow and that will be the end of that lame excuse. As long as that's what happens.

Naptown_Seth
12-19-2011, 05:34 PM
Or, the fact that it is being met with widely mixed emotions leads one to a conclusion. If I can borrow a term from Satan, it just shows how irrelevant Price is.
Because there weren't mixed emotions about Tyler.

I don't think "mixed emotions" indicate irrelevant at all. Tebow gets mixed emotions and he's definitely not irrelevant, whether you think he's helping or hurting.



If the thread was 1 page of "meh", that would mean irrelevant.



He's just a young PG that I'd like to see have a shot to run the floor at times for Vogel with the idea that he might turn out to be a pretty useful bench PG, a "control the game" PG that could facilitate the scoring of other guys and play some D.

For his salary it's a low cost investment that's pretty par for course in the NBA. If he becomes nothing then it's not that big a deal. I'd spend the same to try Patty Mills out too.


Or are people just mad because he's going to prevent Lance from being a star? (Ironically Lance "stinks" because JOB didn't play him and we already saw by his output and W/L that he couldn't do it for Vogel either, end of debate....oh, that only works if it's guys you don't like, sorry)

Trader Joe
12-19-2011, 05:44 PM
If the Lance Stephenson we saw against Chicago is the Lance Stephenson we're going to see all season, you have to keep AJ.

Slick Pinkham
12-19-2011, 05:46 PM
So those players who are drafted after him or go undrafted are bigger knuckleheads, huh?

Were any of those other players McDonalds All-Americans 12 months earlier?

I don't hate Lance or want to get rid of him. Maybe he has turned it around for good. I am saying, though, that he has a very long history, so if his talent and current behavior does ever get him to the point where (putting myself in Bird's shoes) you have a defined role for him to play, you had best cover yourself for the possibility that history might repeat itself.

Trader Joe
12-19-2011, 05:46 PM
At this point, there is no reason to believe that Stephenson is a better player than Price. None.

This is the harsh truth. Lance was one of our worst players on Friday against the Bulls.

90'sNBARocked
12-19-2011, 06:42 PM
analogy

humorous

and that isn't even an analogy. do you even know what he said? he said you cannot say stephenson is a better player than price right now, not that stephenson is not a better player than aj price.

there is no reason to believe stephenson is a better player than aj price because lance never played any meaningful minutes outside of garbage time, and hence we do not know how his play will hold up in meaningful game situations. aj price has played in playoff games and has played significant meaningful minutes. we know what he brings to the table in real game situations. we do not have the same information about lance.

right it works both ways

I think time will show though Lance has more talent and will have the better career. If AJ gets cut, Lance is not the reason though

speakout4
12-19-2011, 08:11 PM
Why? This question hasn't occurred to anyone else. Next is DJ going to be waived? He's no worse than Diener or Sarunas so as a 3rd string he's fine.

spazzxb
12-19-2011, 08:40 PM
If they weren't very good then how did the new coach instantly win a lot more with them?

Why does that push to the playoffs, the winning record under Vogel, and the quality effort against the Bulls equate to "just weren't very good"?

Of course they were, they actually played pretty good ball for all of Vogel's run other than during the Lance experiment: 1-5 when he played 10 minutes, 3-9 when he played at all, 17-9 when he didn't play and Vogel was coaching. 20-18 under Vogel in total.

From that you walked away with "the players just weren't very good"?


JOB thought that Paul George stunk too in case you weren't aware. I watched him chew him out 15 seconds after he entered that last Orlando game. And as far as I could tell PG hadn't blown any kind of switch that would warrant that kind of reaction.

Hibbert went into the tank under JOB after his quick start, and then magically started to recover when JOB left.


But I'm just leaning on an excuse because the 2.5 months of non-JOB ball told you everything you need to know about how this group would play under Vogel, how each player could actually perform under a different coach.


Reminds me how people trashed the Henderson pick due to his play under Larry Brown. Suddenly Gerald becomes a pretty solid player the instant Larry is fired.



What kills me the most is that Digest had so many people ready to kick Carlisle to the curb because his conservative offense was holding guys like Tinsley back, and once RC was gone we'd see the real Tinsley despite Rick's strong W-L record. But now when it comes to a bunch of young players we might as well dump them 3 months after dumping the coach mid-season because we've seen enough.

It's not a consistent approach.



Don't worry, these guys will all flop elsewhere and you can make me eat crow and that will be the end of that lame excuse. As long as that's what happens.

simply put, josh and Rush were not the difference makers last season. I doubt JOB thought George stunk, and my point was that JOB didn't do anything to these boys that would require a multi year recovery process to determine if there any good (personally I do see them both legitimate NBA role players). I don't really want to have the rest of that argument.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

billbradley
12-19-2011, 09:16 PM
At this point, there is no reason to believe that Stephenson is a better player than Price. None.

Well thats not true. One reason is that people who get paid to evaluate talent and have seen Lance more than just sparingly his rookie year and his first preseason game of the season say he's a rare talent.

Mackey_Rose
12-19-2011, 09:37 PM
Well thats not true. One reason is that people who get paid to evaluate talent and have seen Lance more than just sparingly his rookie year and his first preseason game of the season say he's a rare talent.

The guy who drafted him says that. Not the most unbiased source. Bird said he was the most talented player on the team last year. More accurately, last season, he was the 15th most talented player on the team. If you want to blindly have faith in what Larry says to the media, that's your prerogative. I choose to formulate my own opinion.

Why Bird has decided to hitch his wagon to a person like Lance is a complete mystery to me. Simply put, he is just not very good right now.

We know that Price can be an effective NBA player on a regular basis. He's done it. He's been that. Lance hasn't.

billbradley
12-19-2011, 09:41 PM
The guy who drafted him says that. Not the most unbiased source. Bird said he was the most talented player on the team last year. More accurately, last season, he was the 15th most talented player on the team. If you want to blindly have faith in what Larry says to the media, that's your prerogative. I choose to formulate my own opinion.

Why Bird has decided to hitch his wagon to a person like Lance is a complete mystery to me. Simply put, he is just not very good right now.

We know that Price can be an effective NBA player on a regular basis. He's done it. He's been that. Lance hasn't.

So you think Bird is the only person who believes Lance is talented? I don't "blindly have faith" I simply haven't seen enough and I think he's too young to judge fairly.

But you said there is no reason, "none" to think Lance can be a better NBA player, when there are reasons.

Mackey_Rose
12-19-2011, 09:44 PM
So you think Bird is the only person who believes Lance is talented? I don't "blindly have faith" I simply haven't seen enough and I think he's too young to judge fairly.

But you said there is no reason, "none" to think Lance can be a better NBA player, when there are reasons.

Nothing you've seen has given you any reason to suggest Lance is a better basketball player.

come on

Sookie
12-19-2011, 09:48 PM
Nothing you've seen has given you any reason to suggest Lance is a better basketball player.

Does that satisfy your sheepish mind?

I'd be curious to see what the rest of the guys on the team thought, although I have my guesses.

Mackey_Rose
12-19-2011, 09:51 PM
I'd be curious to see what the rest of the guys on the team thought, although I have my guesses.

They think the man upstairs called the 15th best player on the team, the best player on the team.

As you can guess, the other 14 really appreciated it.

billbradley
12-19-2011, 09:56 PM
Nothing you've seen has given you any reason to suggest Lance is a better basketball player.

Does that satisfy your sheepish mind?

Ha, sheepish mind? What an interesting way to describe someone who disagrees with your false assertion.

I think Lance was given more tools to work with than Price. That gives me another reason to believe Lance could be a better player.

imawhat
12-19-2011, 10:03 PM
Why do I keep getting the impression the players dislike Larry?

billbradley
12-19-2011, 10:06 PM
At this point, there is no reason to believe that Stephenson is a better player than Price. None.

This from Mike Wells would be another reason to believe that Vogel sees Lance as a better option than Price.


At the rate things are going, itíll be hard for Vogel not to play Stephenson. Stephenson has been one of the most impressive players in training camp so far.

vnzla81
12-19-2011, 10:13 PM
They think the man upstairs called the 15th best player on the team, the best player on the team.

As you can guess, the other 14 really appreciated it.

"the man upstairs"? ............Tebow?

Trader Joe
12-19-2011, 10:19 PM
Did you guys watch Lance on Friday against Chicago? He got abused on D and he looked completely lost on offense during a time when we desperately needed him to show us some of that natural scoring/creating ability. I know what has been said about him in training camp now for the past two years, but it has not been translating to the court.

billbradley
12-19-2011, 10:26 PM
Did you guys watch Lance on Friday against Chicago? He got abused on D and he looked completely lost on offense during a time when we desperately needed him to show us some of that natural scoring/creating ability. I know what has been said about him in training camp now for the past two years, but it has not been translating to the court.

Yeah, but how can you be so sure from 12 minutes of PT in first preseason game after a rookie year? He looked awful for the most part, but he was 1-3 with 1 assist 1 turnover and 1 steal. If the staff is playing Lance over Price, that says something. I do trust Vogel.

Ozwalt72
12-19-2011, 10:30 PM
Did you guys watch Lance on Friday against Chicago? He got abused on D and he looked completely lost on offense during a time when we desperately needed him to show us some of that natural scoring/creating ability. I know what has been said about him in training camp now for the past two years, but it has not been translating to the court.

I saw a couple of times where his length made a difference defensively, as well as a time or two where he had the right idea offensively, and the other guy couldn't finish.

He looked bad for most of it, yeah, but the coaches are working with him, and I'm a sucker for those end of the bench developmental players. Like Al Harrington.

Anyway, it doesn't matter how Lance looks, there isn't much reason to cut Price.

lol, vnzla, least of all for Travis Diener. If there were one sure way to make our point guard defense any worse than it already is...

Edit: Oh, and I'm not saying Lance is comparable to Al. Different team situations etc

ksuttonjr76
12-20-2011, 12:40 AM
Lance did look good during the summer games in 2010, and widely considered one of the better players of the Orlando summer games. Personally, I believe he'll be a better player than Price. HOWEVER, I haven't seen enough of him in regular season games to make a truly fair assessment of him.

As for Price...he won't be waived unless we're trying to free up a roster spot.

Trader Joe
12-20-2011, 12:42 AM
Yeah, but how can you be so sure from 12 minutes of PT in first preseason game after a rookie year? He looked awful for the most part, but he was 1-3 with 1 assist 1 turnover and 1 steal. If the staff is playing Lance over Price, that says something. I do trust Vogel.

Believe me, my opinion about Lance is based on a lot more than just those 12 minutes, however they certainly didn't help make the case that he has been much improved. Curious to see him tomorrow since he knows he'll be getting consistent minutes and also should know he needs to make a better impression.

PR07
12-20-2011, 12:45 AM
I see no point in cutting Price as the roster currently stands. If we add Redd or another 1 or 2, you at least can have the discussion.

Pacergeek
12-20-2011, 12:46 AM
Believe me, my opinion about Lance is based on a lot more than just those 12 minutes, however they certainly didn't help make the case that he has been much improved. Curious to see him tomorrow since he knows he'll be getting consistent minutes and also should know he needs to make a better impression.

Lance got pulled after the 3rd quarter, when he was getting it going. He should have started the 4th quarter

xIndyFan
12-20-2011, 02:52 AM
I see no point in cutting Price as the roster currently stands. If we add Redd or another 1 or 2, you at least can have the discussion.

i don't.

unless the pacers add another PG, not combo guard, but a real PG. i don't think the pacers will cut him. if DC goes down, AJ is the only real PG on the team. AJ has run a team before.

billbradley
12-20-2011, 01:50 PM
Conrad Brunner just said on 1070 that Lance looked like the backup PG

billbradley
12-20-2011, 02:20 PM
so with Rush gone and Brunner's comment it sounds like our wing and guard rotation will look like...

DC/Lance/Hill/Price
PG/Hill/Jones/Lance
DG/PG

I bet Lance gets around 20 minutes tonight. You think Price sees any action?

EDIT: I'll go out on a limb and predict a nice game for Lance. 12/5/5 with 2 turnovers and a clutch shot.

90'sNBARocked
12-20-2011, 02:47 PM
Whether Lance set the place on fire when he played Friday or he stunk it up, cant read too much into it

Many of the staff memebers on the Pacers have commented how talented he is, how good he looks and how he has matured. If multiple people who have far more insight and access to Lance, than 99% of us , think it to be so, got to take their word for it

Price has benefits. He is on a very cheap contract, can get hot, can run the point, so I think he stays this year. Next year will be the real test

Sookie
12-20-2011, 02:55 PM
Whether Lance set the place on fire when he played Friday or he stunk it up, cant read too much into it

Many of the staff memebers on the Pacers have commented how talented he is, how good he looks and how he has matured. If multiple people who have far more insight and access to Lance, than 99% of us , think it to be so, got to take their word for it

Price has benefits. He is on a very cheap contract, can get hot, can run the point, so I think he stays this year. Next year will be the real test

I've got a feeling AJ will go elsewhere next season.

In fact, the smart thing for him to do would be to go elsewhere. So many other teams even lack a decent backup point guard. Why would he stay here when Larry is clearly more invested in Hill, Lance, and DC. The only thing that would make him stay would be emotional ties to Indy. Which, I'm sure he's friends with his teammates but he can make new friends, elsewhere. :P (Similar to Josh, as much as Josh wanted to be here, he's better off as a Laker.)

I don't really care what people from the Pacer's organization say. I've seen Lance play. I watched him at Cincy, and I've watched him in the few times he's played here. Brunner's boosting isn't going to change my opinion. They've been doing that since he's been here. Lance is the only one that can change my opinion.

My guess assuming things stay the same, we start the season with Price not getting minutes, we end the season with Price as our primary backup.

threein73
12-21-2011, 05:58 PM
wouldn't mind him proving me wrong, but so far i think aj is a better PG than lance... and he seems to be more consistent hitting the outside jumper as well...

90'sNBARocked
12-21-2011, 06:02 PM
I've got a feeling AJ will go elsewhere next season.

In fact, the smart thing for him to do would be to go elsewhere. So many other teams even lack a decent backup point guard. Why would he stay here when Larry is clearly more invested in Hill, Lance, and DC. The only thing that would make him stay would be emotional ties to Indy. Which, I'm sure he's friends with his teammates but he can make new friends, elsewhere. :P (Similar to Josh, as much as Josh wanted to be here, he's better off as a Laker.)

I don't really care what people from the Pacer's organization say. I've seen Lance play. I watched him at Cincy, and I've watched him in the few times he's played here. Brunner's boosting isn't going to change my opinion. They've been doing that since he's been here. Lance is the only one that can change my opinion.

My guess assuming things stay the same, we start the season with Price not getting minutes, we end the season with Price as our primary backup.

I honestly dont care if Price goes, just as long as you stay :). Really the place I think price could go and benefit from is a return home to NY and play in D'antoni system who favors a PG that can shoot