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Pacer Fan
12-18-2011, 05:12 PM
We have a 3 man rotation in Danny, Paul and Hill to cover the SF, SG positions with Hill having to cover the PG position.

This is not good at all. Jones is terrible, he is everything the word team doesn't stand for and Stephenson, well he just isn't ready (to be nice). Price may not perform to the level needed. Famous was a stick out there on the floor. Lazare seemed ok but was quite slow on his feet.

We have lost Dunleavey and now Rush (our best shooters off the bench) and there isn't much left in FA. I am really upset and getting concerned here. This is not a deep bench at all and we don't really have a legit starting SG.
I think I'd rather have Rush, Dunleavey, McRoberts and West added to the team, then Pendergraph and Amundson. This just doesn't make sense and it's giving me a Big Freakin Headache.

Please, tell me I'm missing something here and stop my panic.

Hibert / Amundson / Foster
West / Hans
Granger / George
George / Hill
Collison / Hill

Ace E.Anderson
12-18-2011, 05:17 PM
I think your making a big stink about nothing. Most teams only go 8 maybe 9 deep in their rotation. We need another wing who can shoot, i agree with that wholeheartedly. But I think we have a much more balanced/big team than what we've had in the past.

Eleazar
12-18-2011, 05:18 PM
I'm right there with you, except for the part about Price.

Eleazar
12-18-2011, 05:21 PM
I think your making a big stink about nothing. Most teams only go 8 maybe 9 deep in their rotation. We need another wing who can shoot, i agree with that wholeheartedly. But I think we have a much more balanced/big team than what we've had in the past.

Just because most teams do it, doesn't mean it is the best way to do it. Most teams actually do go 10 deep in the regular season, it is only once you get to the playoffs that they only go 8 deep. Most teams only go 8 deep because it is difficult to find 10 players worth playing in the playoffs.

yoadknux
12-18-2011, 05:22 PM
This trade didn't make much sense. It's like we traded Rush for Solo.
Maybe Bird plans on signing AK or Afflalo (or w/e his name is)

Deadshot
12-18-2011, 05:23 PM
So let's say we look to bring in a 2 guard. We can either:

A. Severely overpay for someone like Affalo or Nick Young

or

B. Sign a veteran (with the options being Redd, Arenas, Bogans)

or

C. Try and work with what we've got.

Am I missing anything/anyone?

Pacer Fan
12-18-2011, 05:24 PM
Just because most teams do it, doesn't mean it is the best way to do it. Most teams actually do go 10 deep in the regular season, it is only once you get to the playoffs that they only go 8 deep. Most teams only go 8 deep because it is difficult to find 10 players worth playing in the playoffs.

exactly, and with the season the way it is, its all the more reason to be deep on the bench.
Sorry for the Price remark, I was hard, my bad.

thatch3232
12-18-2011, 06:18 PM
I say work with what we've got, I think we can do this mainly by giving Lance Stephenson all the rest of the 3rd string minutes.

Hibbert/Foster/Amundson
West/Hansbrough/Pendergraph
Granger/George/Jones
George/Hill/Stephenson
Collison/Hill/Stephenson

I think we're set.

CableKC
12-18-2011, 06:38 PM
So let's say we look to bring in a 2 guard. We can either:

A. Severely overpay for someone like Affalo or Nick Young

or

B. Sign a veteran (with the options being Redd, Arenas, Bogans)

or

C. Try and work with what we've got.

Am I missing anything/anyone?
D. Live with what we have, give as many minutes to DC/PG/Granger/GH that they can handle, use Lance/Inferno sparingly and wait til the Trade Deadline and see if some opportunity comes up.

or

E. If there aren't any good opportunities that result from "D", ( assuming that he doesn't sign an extension ), save the Capspace and make a MAX run at EJ. If the Hornets/NBA/Stern matches....fine...if not...we at least tried to get a top tier SG.

Ace E.Anderson
12-18-2011, 08:04 PM
exactly, and with the season the way it is, its all the more reason to be deep on the bench.
Sorry for the Price remark, I was hard, my bad.

i dont know many teams that consistantly go 10 deep, with end of bench players getting double figure minutes a game. Right now we have a very solid 8 man rotation. It could be 10 if your willing to give pendergraph and stephenson spot mins here or there. Do we need another wing? Yes. Is it 100% necessary for a successful season? Prob not

Ace E.Anderson
12-18-2011, 08:12 PM
exactly, and with the season the way it is, its all the more reason to be deep on the bench.
Sorry for the Price remark, I was hard, my bad.

i dont know many teams that consistantly go 10 deep, with end of bench players getting double figure minutes a game. Right now we have a very solid 8 man rotation. It could be 10 if your willing to give pendergraph and stephenson spot mins here or there. Do we need another wing? Yes. Is it 100% necessary for a successful season? Prob not

Winner
12-18-2011, 08:16 PM
So let's say we look to bring in a 2 guard. We can either:

A. Severely overpay for someone like Affalo or Nick Young
or

B. Sign a veteran (with the options being Redd, Arenas, Bogans)

or

C. Try and work with what we've got.

Am I missing anything/anyone?

I'd give him the 9 million he wants a season if I were the Pacers GM

kellogg
12-18-2011, 08:39 PM
We have a 3 man rotation in Danny, Paul and Hill to cover the SF, SG positions with Hill having to cover the PG position.

This is not good at all. Jones is terrible, he is everything the word team doesn't stand for and Stephenson, well he just isn't ready (to be nice). Price may not perform to the level needed. Famous was a stick out there on the floor. Lazare seemed ok but was quite slow on his feet.

We have lost Dunleavey and now Rush (our best shooters off the bench) and there isn't much left in FA. I am really upset and getting concerned here. This is not a deep bench at all and we don't really have a legit starting SG.
I think I'd rather have Rush, Dunleavey, McRoberts and West added to the team, then Pendergraph and Amundson. This just doesn't make sense and it's giving me a Big Freakin Headache.

Please, tell me I'm missing something here and stop my panic.

Hibert / Amundson / Foster
West / Hans
Granger / George
George / Hill
Collison / Hill

I'm really ok with this trade. Amundson is simply a warm body admittedly but I think it really opens up time for guys like Lance. Although acquiring Mayo would have been nice, I was concerned that had that happened in the end, no one is happy with their PT.

I think it will end up being:

Hibbert/Amundson-Foster (with Foster's minutes being limited until playoffs)
West/Hansbrough
Granger/George
George/Lance/GHill
Collison/GHill/Price

Not including Price or Foster in the above scheme, that is a 9 man rotation...which is really as much or more than any team really runs anyway. I'm ok with Amundson because he knows he's a role player, plain and simple...doesn't need the ball. George Hill and Paul George are the interchangeable pieces at PG-SG (GHill) and SG-SF (PGeorge) and maybe even Lance at PG-SG as well. Hopefully guys like Dahntay and AJ will also realize they're role players and won't be upset about PT.
If the Pacers can somehow land Redd for reasonable $$, that would bring in the second team scorer we need.

Another plus is that I think, with the possible exception of Dahntay (and this is just an impression, nothing more), I don't see any malcontents or underachievers anymore. To me we have guys who fall loosely into three categories now...those who are playing at the peaks of their careers (DG, DW), role players (JF,DJ, AJ, LA), and those still with some upside (DC, LS, GH, RH, TH, PG).

I was not a fan of Bird as the GM/Walsh successor, but I have to admit, he's done a really great job of assembling a team in a small market, took some reasonable gambles when he needed to, and didn't get the team mired in a financial wasteland for years. This team is really good now...and if they stay healthy and Lance turns out to be a good as Bird suspects, who knows where they'll go?

Pacer Fan
12-18-2011, 08:52 PM
i dont know many teams that consistantly go 10 deep, with end of bench players getting double figure minutes a game. Right now we have a very solid 8 man rotation. It could be 10 if your willing to give pendergraph and stephenson spot mins here or there. Do we need another wing? Yes. Is it 100% necessary for a successful season? Prob not

I understand what you are saying, but I am concerned about the 3 man rotation of SG and SF with 1 of those 3 guys being Hill, which will have to also back up Collison. Not the other 4 man from the C and PF positions. We have no perimeter shooting except Danny.

Larry has talked about having the best bench in the league....where is it. Pacers FO has talked about this schedule and the advantage the Pacers will have with a strong bench. All I see is the strong bench is leaving the building and FA's are thinning.

You talk about other teams having a 8 man rotation, but for the Pacers to be able to beat these teams, our bench has to be better then theirs, because our starters will get beat more times then not. To balance the 48 minutes and challenge the NY's, Boston's, Miami's, ect., our bench has to outperform theirs or we will be lucky to win 30 games.

To think Redd is going to be our savior to help spread the floor and score without getting railroad on defense is a joke. If we do get him I can only hope he makes me eat my words. History says he is gonna have a hard time doing that tho.

PS. I'm not mad here with anyone, i'm just trying to express my concerns.

Eleazar
12-18-2011, 08:53 PM
i dont know many teams that consistantly go 10 deep, with end of bench players getting double figure minutes a game. Right now we have a very solid 8 man rotation. It could be 10 if your willing to give pendergraph and stephenson spot mins here or there. Do we need another wing? Yes. Is it 100% necessary for a successful season? Prob not

What do you mean you don't many, just about every team goes 10 deep. In fact a lot of teams have 11 or 12 guys who average double digit minutes, with 9 or 10 of them play 60 games. Teams don't cut itdown to 8 until the playoffs, the idea that teams do that in the regular season is just a myth. The season is just too long to not go 10 deep.

If you want to make the argument that most teams don't have the talent to go 10 deep I won't disagree, but all but very few go 10 deep because of the length of the season.

Ace E.Anderson
12-18-2011, 10:53 PM
What do you mean you don't many, just about every team goes 10 deep. In fact a lot of teams have 11 or 12 guys who average double digit minutes, with 9 or 10 of them play 60 games. Teams don't cut itdown to 8 until the playoffs, the idea that teams do that in the regular season is just a myth. The season is just too long to not go 10 deep.

If you want to make the argument that most teams don't have the talent to go 10 deep I won't disagree, but all but very few go 10 deep because of the length of the season.

What I'm saying is most teams dont go 10 deep where every player has a major impact on the game. I agree we definitely need another wing who is able to knock down outside jumpers, that's obviously a need. But what I'm saying is from 1 to 8, we have a lineup that is deep and talented and can match up with any style of play. If we dont end up getting another wing, it will not be THAT detrimental to our team. but this is jus my opinion lol

pacers74
12-18-2011, 11:03 PM
I'm not as much concered about the position s people play that will work it self out. When G.Hill plays PG Lance can play SG and they are interchangeable. I'm am more concered that we don't have an outside scoring threat on our bench. If Redd if really healthy again maybe he can be that threat. The last few years when healthy Dunleavy was that outside presence that teams could not slack off of. We need that threat again.

Unclebuck
12-19-2011, 10:46 AM
I think the biggest myth right now for the Pacers is that they have a deep bench. I think the bench is weak. Tyler and George Hill is nice, but beyond that there is nothing that can be counted on. Pacers 8-11 have to mbe one of the weaker teams in the NBA or at least among teams expected to make the playoffs.

Pacerized
12-19-2011, 11:09 AM
I think depth is a major issue with us. Trading Rush made no sense to me at all considering what we got in return. I assume that Bird has a plan and that he expects someone else to be amnestied or a player or 2 to be available in a salary dump.
We have too many combo guards and not enough depth at the pg or sg position. I don't trust Stephenson or even Hill to man either one of those spots full time if we needed them to.
We better in the front court but we're too small. I wouldn't care about size so much if our undersized players were Charles Barkely but they're not. We needed a traditional pf/c who could score in the post and defend.
Bird gets a guy that I honestly don't know much about but he does sound like he can't score at all and at 6'9" 225lbs. I don't expect he'll be pushing Howard out of the post anytime soon.
I don't think we're a better team right now, but 2 good trades and we're a true contender. I hope Bird still has something else significant in mind for this season.

naptownmenace
12-19-2011, 11:09 AM
I think the biggest myth right now for the Pacers is that they have a deep bench. I think the bench is weak. Tyler and George Hill is nice, but beyond that there is nothing that can be counted on. Pacers 8-11 have to mbe one of the weaker teams in the NBA or at least among teams expected to make the playoffs.

I agree.

The Bench is thin at Center and Shooting Guard. If Roy gets in foul trouble or if any of the other starters go down with an injury, this bench will cost us some games.

I think Michael Redd would be a good player to sign just for backup insurance purposes. Hopefully a player like Wilson Chandler will become available after the China basketball season ends in March.

billbradley
12-19-2011, 11:11 AM
I think the biggest myth right now for the Pacers is that they have a deep bench. I think the bench is weak. Tyler and George Hill is nice, but beyond that there is nothing that can be counted on. Pacers 8-11 have to mbe one of the weaker teams in the NBA or at least among teams expected to make the playoffs.

Not sure the 8-11 part is true.

Rose, Boozer, Noah, Deng, Hamilton, Gibson, Korver would be Bulls front 7.

8-11 would be Watson, Brewer, Asik, Scalabrine?

I don't see how we can be one of the weaker teams 8-11 when I don't see us being terribly worse than one of the top teams.

I like Brewer and Asik's game, but is Lance, Jones, Amundson, Foster and Price much worse than the Bulls? How about the Heat, Knicks and Celtics 8-11?

And when you factor in how many of our guys can play so many different positions and we are still looking for shooting, I think we're fine.

Gamble1
12-19-2011, 11:35 AM
I am not sure whats the big deal. I mean the Pacers if they need to can go after Wilson Chandler or JR Smith when they get back from China.

Also whats all the hate on Djones. The guy still has averaged 45% FG% and is a solid defender. Sure he doesn't pass at all but he's coming off the bench.

Freddie fan
12-19-2011, 04:06 PM
I think the biggest myth right now for the Pacers is that they have a deep bench. I think the bench is weak. Tyler and George Hill is nice, but beyond that there is nothing that can be counted on. Pacers 8-11 have to mbe one of the weaker teams in the NBA or at least among teams expected to make the playoffs.

That there's nothing that can be counted on after Tyler and Hill is true, but I think that means the bench could be weak, not that it is weak. I don't know how you can tell at this point. We know that Foster is a good bench player when he's healthy and the two other new big guys could be pretty good as role players, too (okay, some will disagree with that), but one has a knee injury right now and the other had a down year when he was banged up last season. In the backcourt, either Lance or A.J. (coming off his injury season) might be decent, but again we don't know.

Unless a good shooter or a good center falls into their lap in the next few days, I think it would be fine for the Pacers to take a while, play some games and see what they have with their bench and make any necessary moves later. No reason to panic. The team has made some good moves since last season - even if we don't all agree with some of them. Not all of the steps need to be made now. It's easier to have some patience when the team is at least bringing in some pretty good new players coming off a long-awaited trip to the playoffs.

By the way, I found this picture (http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&biw=1366&bih=599&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=F2b0sFpjE12r6M:&imgrefurl=http://spectrumculture.com/2011/11/film-dunce-slap-shot.html&docid=niojx8GH0C6tRM&imgurl=http://spectrumculture.com/assets/slapshot1.jpg&w=600&h=328&ei=YJXvTprGK4Tg0QG_8oSpCQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=672&sig=118017459546999148026&page=1&tbnh=87&tbnw=159&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0&tx=74&ty=24)of the big guys we now have on our bench.