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View Full Version : Josh for Mayo recap



Naptown_Seth
12-18-2011, 03:46 AM
As a McRoberts fan I was obviously against this deal, but as I sat at the game the other night and thought about that deal I did a rundown of the key components and wondered just WTF was going on...

1) You would not have McRoberts on the roster - CHECK

2) You would have to keep Rush - CHECK

3) You would get Mayo - WHIFF

Now with Rush traded anyway it seems even more foolish.

Friday showed us how rough it will be having Hill play the undersized 2 and how wretched Dahntay's game continues to be, and now with Rush gone anyway it's starting to look like that SG situation is worse than we thought.

Add to this that they are bringing in other SGs like Redd because they obviously realize that they need something and it just becomes a real head scratcher. How is it a "win" if you end up with the exact same situation as the trade would have put you in except that you didn't get the guy you wanted?

If they sign the SG they need they will still spend at least some of the money they would have paid Mayo, money they could afford to spend, and the Rush salary they didn't want to eat has been converted to a bench PF anyway.



For all the kudos to not overpay on West and to finally clear some salary, it sure does seem like they botched the whole Mayo situation. Even if they go ahead and get Mayo as a FA later it still is screw up simply because it says that you did want him and could have had him but just completely misread your own situation.


How did the team benefit from not doing a SnT of Josh for Mayo without Rush included? Apart from "really showing those guys" how is this deal nothing more than cutting off your nose to spite your face? The only thing you didn't get was Mayo, the rest of "the deal" went just as Memphis proposed (Josh gone, Rush here).

pacer4ever
12-18-2011, 03:49 AM
I think after Odom was traded there was no S&T discussion anymore Josh was gonna be a Laker regardless. But before Odom was traded and if a S&T was on the table and we didnt take it the FO went crazy IMO(I very much doubt one was on the table though for just Mayo for Jmac).

BornReady
12-18-2011, 03:51 AM
well we don't really know what went down right? we don't exactly know what each team thought about the deal and stipulations to the deal. At first it seemed like Bird wanted to throw in Rush, but at the end it seemed like it was the Grizzlies trying to decide whether they wanted the deal and in the end decided to keep Mayo from all teams.

xBulletproof
12-18-2011, 03:54 AM
Lots of assumptions about things we don't know. Par for the course.

Including that the Rush deal is even done.

Kuq_e_Zi91
12-18-2011, 04:03 AM
My problem is, we didn't even make Josh feel like we wanted him back. We went after Pendergraph instead? And instead of trading Rush for Lou, why not just bring back Josh and keep Rush too? We make it seem like Rush was some type of locker room cancer who had to be traded for anything we could get.

If you need a scorer, you still have the money and the roster spot to spend.

Eleazar
12-18-2011, 04:03 AM
Assuming what we were told is true, it was rather dumb to not take Rush out of the deal after they said no. There is nothing wrong with saying, "Hey how about we include Rush too." When they say no, then you just take the deal without Rush.

Now I do know we don't have all of the information, and it is completely possible most of it was completely made up just to sell a story, or to laugh at the media. If there was any truth to it though it was stupid then and is even more stupid now.

neosmndrew
12-18-2011, 04:17 AM
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, my friend. I wasn't sold that Grizz were gonna ship Mayo for just two players who are worth no more than 2nd round draft picks themselves.

Naptown_Seth
12-18-2011, 04:17 AM
Lots of assumptions about things we don't know. Par for the course.

Including that the Rush deal is even done.
Yes, I am taking the word of someone believed to have a connection to Josh or his situation enough to speak about it. So the assumption is that he is not a liar.

If he's not a liar then the statement of truth was "insisted on inclusion of Rush, Griz decided to walk away because of that, and Josh went on with his FA offers instead".


And since Mackey seems serious about his postings in other areas he doesn't strike me as some nutjob making up stuff, but I'll concede that at this point I don't know this for certain.

xBulletproof
12-18-2011, 04:29 AM
So you think Odom leaving LA had nothing to do with Josh going there? Maybe Xavier Henry missing a month caused Memphis to give pause.

He doesn't have to be a liar, just misinformed. He's only privy to information from one part of a 3 sided deal. There's 2 other sides trying to play hands to get the best deal they can, and they're going to say what they need to, to do so.

Besides that, have you ever played the game where you say something to someone and pass that message on through several people and see how it comes out in the end? I have, and it's never the same. Unless he's the one taking the calls and talking directly to the GM's things can get lost in translation, even.

Being a blatant liar isn't the only way it isn't exactly true.

pacer4ever
12-18-2011, 04:32 AM
So you think Odom leaving LA had nothing to do with Josh going there? Maybe Xavier Henry missing a month caused Memphis to give pause.

He doesn't have to be a liar, just misinformed. He's only privy to information from one part of a 3 sided deal. There's 2 other sides trying to play hands to get the best deal they can, and they're going to say what they need to, to do so.

Besides that, have you ever played the game where you say something to someone and pass that message on through several people and see how it comes out in the end? I have, and it's never the same. Unless he's the one taking the calls and talking directly to the GM's things can get lost in translation, even.

Being a blatant liar isn't the only way it isn't exactly true.

Mackey said he was leaning toward Memphis until the Gasol CP3 trade. Then he focused his attetion toward LA after he though Gasol was gone and Mackey even said that trade getting nixed cause Josh to not sign. Then after they traded Odom it was back to the Lakers being the favorite to sign Josh because PT opened up.

Psyren
12-18-2011, 04:43 AM
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, my friend. I wasn't sold that Grizz were gonna ship Mayo for just two players who are worth no more than 2nd round draft picks themselves.

That's what I thought as well.

Despite some up and down play for Mayo, his potential + his playoff performance last year, he's still worth far more than Josh and Rush.

I thought the same thing last year when the Mayo discussions occurred that I thought this year.

"Surely Memphis isn't that stupid".

Now maybe Memphis would do that deal, and Josh just chose Lakers causing it to fail. We don't really know. But regardless, I just never thought Memphis would trade a guy like Mayo for 2 guys who really just aren't that good.

Infinite MAN_force
12-18-2011, 04:56 AM
That's what I thought as well.

Despite some up and down play for Mayo, his potential + his playoff performance last year, he's still worth far more than Josh and Rush.

I thought the same thing last year when the Mayo discussions occurred that I thought this year.

"Surely Memphis isn't that stupid".

Now maybe Memphis would do that deal, and Josh just chose Lakers causing it to fail. We don't really know. But regardless, I just never thought Memphis would trade a guy like Mayo for 2 guys who really just aren't that good.

Maybe Mayo's just really not that good?

It has to say something if his value has dropped that much.

Kemo
12-18-2011, 05:02 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LMGOVMh14aA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Kemo
12-18-2011, 05:03 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ostWedPLPqc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Kemo
12-18-2011, 05:05 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PZBiNoJNRiw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

OakMoses
12-18-2011, 10:20 AM
Friday showed us how rough it will be having Hill play the undersized 2 and how wretched Dahntay's game continues to be,

I totally agree about Dahntay, but how did Friday's game show us anything about Hill?

Sandman21
12-18-2011, 12:43 PM
I totally agree about Dahntay, but how did Friday's game show us anything about Hill?

It showed me that GH3 was so disappointed in his effort that he went straight to the practice gym after the game and started shooting baskets.

PR07
12-18-2011, 12:48 PM
There was no reason not to. We would've gotten a talented young player who can score for two players that clearly weren't in the Pacers' future plans. That leads me to believe that:

1) It was Memphis that was holding up the deal

2) We put all of our eggs in the Crawford basket and were burned.

CreekShow
12-18-2011, 12:56 PM
Just getting ready to say Im surprised no one has mention Jamal Crawford in here. Im pretty sure he was there #1 choice anyways. We waited for him, the Mayo deal fell through, then the Crawford deal fell through too.

Seems like its Crawfords fault more than anyones.

tadscout
12-18-2011, 02:30 PM
Also Josh was an UFA... Even if we wanted to trade him to the Griz we couldn't unless he wanted to go there.

Not sure how people think they can blame Bird for the trade falling through when Josh wanted to sign with the Lakers.

Pacer Fan
12-18-2011, 03:08 PM
For my understanding, it didn't matter what Grizzlies or Pacers wanted. Josh went where he wanted to go and that's that. If the Grizzlies would have been his best offer then the deal would have happened, with or without Rush. Rush was not the deal breaker, Josh was.

Kemo
12-18-2011, 03:53 PM
ya, all one has to do is watch the videos I posted, Josh pretty much tells what happened..


I honestly do think , that if Bird would have just done a S&T with Josh to Memphis 1 for 1 , it would have been done... But with Bird kinda hoping for Crawford instead, and with the inclusion of Rush in that trade, too much time had passed . Because once Odom got traded for cap relief and the opportunity opened up for Josh to play and have a good role on the Lakers, it was a no brainer for Josh.. I believe at first Josh wanted to go to Memphis and would have went along with the S&T because he would have made more money and had more PT.. But with Odom gone it opened up an opportunity and Josh's 2nd choice immediately became his first ..

beast23
12-18-2011, 04:25 PM
ya, all one has to do is watch the videos I posted, Josh pretty much tells what happened..


I honestly do think , that if Bird would have just done a S&T with Josh to Memphis 1 for 1 , it would have been done... But with Bird kinda hoping for Crawford instead, and with the inclusion of Rush in that trade, too much time had passed . Because once Odom got traded for cap relief and the opportunity opened up for Josh to play and have a good role on the Lakers, it was a no brainer for Josh.. I believe at first Josh wanted to go to Memphis and would have went along with the S&T because he would have made more money and had more PT.. But with Odom gone it opened up an opportunity and Josh's 2nd choice immediately became his first ..

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what happened. The Pacers pecking order was 1-Crawford 2-Mayo. At one point, the Pacers asked all FAs being considered to "get back to them by the end of the day". Crawford strung them out for another 24 hours before stating he wasn't interested. By that time, Odom was traded and it was obvious that LA would be a better opportunity for Josh. At that time, it didn't matter whether or not Josh was originally willing to go to Memphis on a S&T, his focus was elsewhere.

As for the Pacers not making an offer to Josh, I don't think the Pacers wanted to commit 2.5M - 3M for 2-3 years for what would no better than a #5 big on the depth chart. c - Hibbert / Foster PF - West / Hansbrough were all going to be ahead of Josh. Why not shell out 500K to 800K for Pendergraph rather than 2.5M or more for Josh to cover the #5 big.

Of course, we now have Admundson being paid 2.5M to cover the #5 big, but he has only one year left on his contract. Go figure.

PR07
12-18-2011, 04:35 PM
It seems like on both Mayo trade opportunities, we got greedy and wanted more, and both times it cost us.

graphic-er
12-18-2011, 05:36 PM
Its seems to be a consensus that the Pacers should have resigned McRoberts being so thin at the 5. But you half to remember, McRoberts definetly wanted more PT. I don't think that he would have gotten it this year in Indiana. SO yeah Josh wanted to stay with the Pacers in the beginning, but there is no guarantee that he would have resigned with us when West was brought in. Guys who had starter minutes the year before don't resign with this same teams when will go to 3rd on the depth chart.

xIndyFan
12-18-2011, 05:39 PM
It seems like on both Mayo trade opportunities, we got greedy and wanted more, and both times it cost us.

don't think bird was all that set on mayo. he was more a target of opportunity than a guy bird is eager to get. the trade struck me more as a chance to get rid of brandon than anything else.

when MEM didn't want brandon, the pacers just didn't care about it much after that.

vnzla81
12-18-2011, 07:32 PM
It looks like Artur is out for the year, could we flip Lou for Mayo now?


ZachLowe_SI Zach Lowe
Darrell Arthur is a HUGE loss for Memphis. Made a giant leap last season. Brutal setback for what looked like a legit contender.

IndySDExport
12-18-2011, 07:35 PM
It looks like Artur is out for the year, could we flip Lou for Mayo now?

If Bird could get Mayo for Rush, via Lou, he would be the greatest exec. In history.

Kemo
12-18-2011, 08:41 PM
Would be cool to do a 3 way trade...

Memphis gets Lou
Pacers get Mayo
Golden State gets Rush


This is a trade that makes sense for everyone...

Make it happen Larry

Justin Tyme
12-18-2011, 08:51 PM
Of course, we now have Admundson being paid 2.5M to cover the #5 big, but he has only one year left on his contract. Go figure.


Or Pendergraph + Amundson salary = Rush. (I'm just guessing at JP's salary.) Pacers didn't take on any new salary this year, and Lou is an expiring. Looks like a win for the Pacers.

Kuq_e_Zi91
12-18-2011, 09:10 PM
I don't think you'll get Mayo for Amundson straight up. No matter how much Memphis needs a big, they won't give up Mayo for that. You have to give up more value than just Amundson to get Mayo. But what are you willing to give up?

Ideally, I'd want to ship out Dahntay, but I don't know if that works financially or if Memphis would even consider that. But then what have we done? We've traded depth at the wings (Rush) for depth up front (Amundson), then traded the aforementioned, recently acquired up front depth along with more wing depth (Jones) for a wing player (Mayo) who has red flags off the court, and inconsistent play on it. I thought that was the justification for trading Rush in the first place? At least Rush was a good locker room guy.

Either way, if you include Amundson in a deal for Mayo, we still need to look for another big. So we're back where we started, except we lost more depth (at the wing) in the process. Again, what are we doing?

We were fine with:

Collison/Hill/Price
George/Stephenson/Hill
Granger/Rush
West/Hansbrough/Pendergraph
Hibbert/Foster/(?)

We just needed to sign a big as insurance for Foster, and we had the cap space. Now, Jones gets more minutes. And we all know what that means.

pacer4ever
12-19-2011, 12:07 AM
It looks like Artur is out for the year, could we flip Lou for Mayo now?

:50cent:

Major Cold
12-19-2011, 12:21 PM
We have no idea what Hill will do at the 2 and Friday night showed nothing to shed light on that.

I have no idea why we did not resign Josh, but I gather is that he wanted 4/5 years and we were not going to give anyone that longevity.

The Mayo trade was never as advanced as reported. The Griz were hesitant to send Mayo. They wanted Josh, but I think that their Conley/Mayo future is still a reality to then. That is until someone gives him ridiculous money.

I would have signed Josh for no more than 3 years. Or 4 with a team option. But my guess is that the Pacers did not want Josh longer than Hansbrough's rookie deal.

Kid Minneapolis
12-19-2011, 01:48 PM
I wish we had kept McRoberts and avoided Crawford and Mayo. /shrug