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PacersPride
12-17-2011, 12:50 PM
i know another EJ thread, but ignore it if you dont want to discuss.

just simply like to know what could be considered a fair deal the league would accept for EJ.

the other Gordon thread is lengthy. hypothetically, lets say Stern is aware Gordon would prefer play in Indiana.

Granger, Rush, DC, 2 first unprotected

in exchange

EJ, Okafor

would that deal get it done and as a pacer fan is it too much to offer.

* George, Hansbro, Hibbert all three Pacers should keep. dont really wannt to see DC go, but of all our young players, im most willing to deal him. Okafor would provide the perfect b/u at pf/c even though overpaid. Granger from NO's could help facilitate the deal.

Bird has to at least pickup the phone and see if the league would consider.

other than losing McBob which i still dont get, pacers have had a great offseaon and the move above would put it over the top.

idioteque
12-17-2011, 12:54 PM
Whether or not your proposal is a fair deal depends entirely on PG's development.

Pacers#1Fan
12-17-2011, 01:05 PM
Jesus, at this point there might as well be an EJ sub-forum.

To answer your question, no. I can wait 'til 2013 when we have a hell of a shot at getting him without giving up anything.

Lance George
12-17-2011, 01:14 PM
Way overpaying for a guy who has Ben Gordon-like production and who has won an average of 27 games per-season in his three-year career.

Eleazar
12-17-2011, 01:34 PM
Way overpaying for a guy who has Ben Gordon-like production and who has won an average of 27 games per-season in his three-year career.

While that is way too much for him, he wouldn't really he that big of an upgrade over Granger if he was an upgrade at all, your arguments against him are just stupid. It doesn't take much to know Eric is much better than Ben, .and we are talking about the freaking Clippers of corset they sucked. Hell everyone thinks Griffiin is the second coming and they still weren't that good last year. Not to meantion as the main guy Granger hasn't ever had a winning record. There is more to basketball than simple stats.

CreekShow
12-17-2011, 01:35 PM
Way overpaying for a guy who has Ben Gordon-like production and who has won an average of 27 games per-season in his three-year career.

What is your obsession with comparing EJ and Ben Gordon? Their last names too much for you to handle ;)

Even though I agree, I think thats a little too much to give up. Granger should mean more to NO than that IMO

troyc11a
12-17-2011, 01:35 PM
Way overpaying for a guy who has Ben Gordon-like production and who has won an average of 27 games per-season in his three-year career.

Did I miss something here? Is this trade proposal about EJ or MJ?

C'mon guys. Gordon is not that darn good or anywhere close to it. Granger and a 1st would be plenty. You cannot dismantle a team for a guy who cannot stay healthy and has not proven he can take over games.
To give up that much, the player coming back should be proven to be healthy and a winner. Gordon is neither.

1984
12-17-2011, 01:38 PM
Horrific deal, you clearly over-value Eric Gordon. Eric Gordon is a 6'3'' combo guard. I would not trade Danny Granger for Eric Gordon under any circumstances, unless the Hornets were to offer a first round pick. I would give two first round picks and Brandon Rush for Eric Gordon.

1984
12-17-2011, 01:39 PM
Okafor is damaged goods. He may be one of the slowest players in the league.

Isaac
12-17-2011, 01:41 PM
Please, stop.

doctor-h
12-17-2011, 01:43 PM
i know another EJ thread, but ignore it if you dont want to discuss.

just simply like to know what could be considered a fair deal the league would accept for EJ.

the other Gordon thread is lengthy. hypothetically, lets say Stern is aware Gordon would prefer play in Indiana.

Granger, Rush, DC, 2 first unprotected

in exchange

EJ, Okafor

would that deal get it done and as a pacer fan is it too much to offer.

* George, Hansbro, Hibbert all three Pacers should keep. dont really wannt to see DC go, but of all our young players, im most willing to deal him. Okafor would provide the perfect b/u at pf/c even though overpaid. Granger from NO's could help facilitate the deal.

Bird has to at least pickup the phone and see if the league would consider.

other than losing McBob which i still dont get, pacers have had a great offseaon and the move above would put it over the top.



God give it up. You want to give up the core of this team for a very good but not great player. It is comical what people come up with. Why would anybody do that when they could maybe get him without giving up anything next year.

Pacer Fan
12-17-2011, 01:44 PM
Right now, that trade won't work. EJ has to be traded by himself for the next 60 days. Besides that, You are willing to give up alot of Pacers trading tools for someone that can't stay on the floor. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have EJ, just not at that expense.
Also, I think you defeat the purpose of improving the team just by trading Danny for EJ alone. Look around the NBA and 2012 FA list of SF's. We are lucky to have Danny. We undervalue Danny cause he is ours. Other teams would do back flips to have him.

BlueNGold
12-17-2011, 01:49 PM
If we know we can get him as a free agent, I'd do that first. But if not, I would do that trade without blinking an eye. Gordon is 22 and already better than Danny. Granger is 28. Paul George is 21. We have made strides adding talent to the roster and this would be a small upgrade plus Granger's age will become a factor before Paul is in his prime. In contrast, Gordon and George will enter their prime at about the same time.

Shade
12-17-2011, 02:54 PM
Trading Granger for EJ is pointless. The idea is to pair the two together.

We also have no need for Okafor now, not to mention that his contract would likely cost us Hibbert.

I think an offer of PG, Rush, and our 2012 first would be fair.

The best plan, methinks, is just to wait until 2013. I don't see EJ extending a deal in Nawlins.

imbtyler
12-17-2011, 03:03 PM
I don't like that trade, as it overvalues EJ. He's not CP3, so the league isn't going to just deny the trade instantly. Granger/Rush/DC/2 firsts is WAY too much for him. I would personally try DC/Rush/Jones and try to get another team in to help compensate. It's not unheard of.

As much as I'm ready for PG to move to the 3 and start developing like crazy, Granger is still, and has been, our best player, so I would like to see what production our Pacers made with a line-up of, say, GH/EJ/DG/DW/RH, with PG as the 2/3 sixth-swingman.

Of course, by 2013, who knows what the lineup will look like. I also don't feel like losing next year's first pick, in the case that someone falls to us in as deep of a draft as is expected.

PacersPride
12-17-2011, 03:05 PM
nice to know you all believe we have the assets. EJ will be better than Granger, George is a small forward. we need a sg who can play beside him.

George can play sg or sf but he will have advantages vs sf's.

EJ, Kaman (if not okafor).

Granger, 2 first rounders.


if its known EJ wants to play in INdiana. why not, the Fieldhouse would sell out.

Dr. Awesome
12-17-2011, 03:11 PM
*Sigh*

mattie
12-17-2011, 03:16 PM
nice to know you all believe we have the assets. EJ will be better than Granger, George is a small forward. we need a sg who can play beside him.

George can play sg or sf but he will have advantages vs sf's.

EJ, Kaman (if not okafor).

Granger, 2 first rounders.


if its known EJ wants to play in INdiana. why not, the Fieldhouse would sell out.

Considering PG is only 6'9" there is no way he has any advantages over two guards. Obviously he'd be a bigger matchup nightmare against other 6'9" small forwards. He could use his excellent ball handling skills to beat defenders off the dribble. Good one. ur smrt.

PacersPride
12-17-2011, 03:22 PM
its preseason, so chillax. if EJ is not dealt to the hornets then i doubt much would be speculated .. if a fair deal is available, make the move.

obviously Bird wants a sg from recent reports of mayo and crawford.

mattie
12-17-2011, 03:28 PM
Way overpaying for a guy who has Ben Gordon-like production and who has won an average of 27 games per-season in his three-year career.

Not that your repeated comparisons of Ben and EJ haven't gotten out of hand already but can you please explain how EJ is just like Ben despite being far more efficient? Why is that hard for you to understand? Probably 95% of NBA players can throw up 20 points per game in a season. It's not hard. However very few can do that efficiently. EJ is one of them. Ben Gordon is NOT.

You've posted the stats comparing them multiple times but somehow don't seem to be able to notice the glaring differences.

Edit- That doesn't even get to the eye test which is the easiest part. No one who's watched any Clips games would ever contend Ben is or was anywhere near Eric's talent level.

PacersPride
12-17-2011, 03:30 PM
Considering PG is only 6'9" there is no way he has any advantages over two guards. Obviously he'd be a bigger matchup nightmare against other 6'9" small forwards. He could use his excellent ball handling skills to beat defenders off the dribble. Good one. ur smrt.

really.. u got come at someone like that on a msg board tough guy. lets test your basketball iq.

advantages/ disadavantages for George at 2 gaurd vs sf.

sg:

length over smaller sg's. (adv)
lacks dribble/handles as a sg, speed not as quick as vs a sf (disadv)

sf:

has size to defend all sf's, and his speed is accentuated against all sf's in the league. can still shoot over sfs and get open easier. defensively if you can put him on a Rose, he would dominate many sf's. (adv)

only disadvantage can be strength, but only 21.


guess if you all think george is better at sg than sf, maybe right now, but by next season i think he will excel as a forward.

> only concern i have w/ gordon is injury. gordon is the only guy i would deal granger for, otherwise im good with granger at his salary.

mattie
12-17-2011, 03:50 PM
really.. u got come at someone like that on a msg board tough guy. lets test your basketball iq.

advantages/ disadavantages for George at 2 gaurd vs sf.

sg:

length over smaller sg's. (adv)
lacks dribble/handles as a sg, speed not as quick as vs a sf (disadv)

sf:

has size to defend all sf's, and his speed is accentuated against all sf's in the league. can still shoot over sfs and get open easier. defensively if you can put him on a Rose, he would dominate many sf's. (adv)

only disadvantage can be strength, but only 21.


guess if you all think george is better at sg than sf, maybe right now, but by next season i think he will excel as a forward.

> only concern i have w/ gordon is injury. gordon is the only guy i would deal granger for, otherwise im good with granger at his salary.

When did I ever suggest I was tough? (Ironically seems like you're challenging me, so I guess you're the tough guy??) If so, yes I am scared.

Any who, that's completely ridiculous. PG obviously because of size has a clear advantage over two guards, where as almost all his physical advantages are negated if he played at SF. I'm sure in the future he'll eventually move on down to SF as he won't always retain the speed he has to defend smaller and quicker guards.

Either way I'm not going to continue to argue the point, it's just differing opinions and though one of the opinions has no semblance of logic, you still have your right to it.

Lurkster
12-17-2011, 04:02 PM
bad trade. also, "ej" is a terrible nickname. turrible.

Banta
12-17-2011, 04:46 PM
Not that your repeated comparisons of Ben and EJ haven't gotten out of hand already but can you please explain how EJ is just like Ben despite being far more efficient? Why is that hard for you to understand? Probably 95% of NBA players can throw up 20 points per game in a season. It's not hard. However very few can do that efficiently. EJ is one of them. Ben Gordon is NOT.

You've posted the stats comparing them multiple times but somehow don't seem to be able to notice the glaring differences.

Edit- That doesn't even get to the eye test which is the easiest part. No one who's watched any Clips games would ever contend Ben is or was anywhere near Eric's talent level.

I don't think the comparison the BG is all that outrageous. Early in his career, BG was always getting big hype and there was much talk about how it was foolish that he was playing the 6th man role instead of ebing a starter. In many circles, he was considered to be an extremely promising player with tons of upside and many people expected great things from him.

That aside, the incessant talk of bringing Eric Gordon to this team is not only pointless and stupid, but it trivializes the potential and promise of the Pacers team that actually exists. You know, the one here in wonderful ol' REALITY.

If you're not familiar with Reality, I suggest you check it out.

mattie
12-17-2011, 05:07 PM
I don't think the comparison the BG is all that outrageous. Early in his career, BG was always getting big hype and there was much talk about how it was foolish that he was playing the 6th man role instead of ebing a starter. In many circles, he was considered to be an extremely promising player with tons of upside and many people expected great things from him.

That aside, the incessant talk of bringing Eric Gordon to this team is not only pointless and stupid, but it trivializes the potential and promise of the Pacers team that actually exists. You know, the one here in wonderful ol' REALITY.

If you're not familiar with Reality, I suggest you check it out.

I'm not in favor of trading for EJ in any way. Not sure how you got that. I'm just arguing how absurd it is to compare a chucker with someone who is a talented scorer. The differences are clear.

Kemo
12-17-2011, 05:18 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/x74TkNlP6tc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

CableKC
12-17-2011, 06:33 PM
id have no problem with making a Max level contact offer to EJ next season. Unless PG make a huge step forward and makes Granger expendable...I don't see Bird moving Granger in any move...whether it is a move for EJ (which I don't see the Stern led Hornets taking for financial reasons ) or another make a move for another Player.

I can see some legitmate interest in making a MAX run at a top tier SG that MAY ( and I admit that I am guessing here ) be interested in returning to his hometown ( hence the willingness to choose Indy over any other City/Team ) while filling an apparent need while being a huge draw to the local and state. IMHO its the perfect storm of opportunity to fill the need to solidify a very young core that could compete against the Superteams. If the Hornets match....fine, let him match....but I think that EJ is capable of being a top tier SG for the near future and is worth making a run at.

PacersPride
12-17-2011, 06:40 PM
as i prefaced the opening sentence. if you dont wanna discuss Gordon then dont bother with the thread topic. any semblance of logic to reading before commenting.

plain and simple, gordon energizes the fan base and its a good move for the team on the floor as well.

not taking this to seriously. i agree, might as well wait instead of dealing with nba owned team.

very content with the moves over the offseason. not expecting a championship banner raised this season.

1984
12-17-2011, 06:55 PM
We won't be able to trade for every Indianapolis-based star. There will be too many. We should certainly make him an offer via free agency, but where does a 6'3" combo guard belong? There are point guards who are taller than Eric Gordon - Paul George will destroy Eric Gordon with his 7" height advantage!

PacersPride
12-17-2011, 09:02 PM
We won't be able to trade for every Indianapolis-based star. There will be too many. We should certainly make him an offer via free agency, but where does a 6'3" combo guard belong? There are point guards who are taller than Eric Gordon - Paul George will destroy Eric Gordon with his 7" height advantage!

eventually george will be a sf.

1984
12-17-2011, 09:45 PM
That's an assumption.

PacersPride
12-17-2011, 10:41 PM
That's an assumption.

what if george grows one more inch, 6'11? lets say adds 20 more lbs bringing him to 240.

sounds more like his natural position will be sf. the above is an accurate assumption.

tadscout
12-17-2011, 10:43 PM
what if george grows one more inch, 6'11? lets say adds 20 more lbs bringing him to 240.

sounds more like his natural position will be sf. the above is an accurate assumption.

You just argued, making an other assumption. :hmm:

CableKC
12-18-2011, 12:30 AM
We won't be able to trade for every Indianapolis-based star. There will be too many. We should certainly make him an offer via free agency, but where does a 6'3" combo guard belong? There are point guards who are taller than Eric Gordon - Paul George will destroy Eric Gordon with his 7" height advantage!
You lost me on the logic here.....what does PG destroying EJ with his 7 foot height ( more like 6'10" height ) have to does with how EJ is going to perform in the future? Is PG going to be the only person guarding EJ for the rest of his career?

EJ has averaged 16/16/20 ppg on 45% shooting in the 3 seasons he's been in the NBA as a 6'3" Starting SG on a crappy team against NBA level talent...many of which are taller then he is. I have ZERO concern about his height as he's been able to put up very good #s in this 1st 3 Seasons....I have no reasons to think that he cannot continue this progression as he gets older. I could care less if he is paid more then Granger....but I think that you have to offer EJ a MAX Level contract and force the NBA to match....he'd easily take us to the next level if you succeed in acquiring him.

PacersHomer
12-18-2011, 01:39 AM
I hope Gordon signs a max deal with New Orleans tomorrow so this crap can stop.

CableKC
12-18-2011, 02:50 AM
I hope Gordon signs a max deal with New Orleans tomorrow so this crap can stop.
Until he does sign a MAX Deal with NO, some Owner buys the Hornets, the Pacers signs some SG for the long-term that will eat into the SalaryCap of the Team or EJ indicates that he's willing to stay in NO....then I'm inclined to suggest that this topic of conversation will not fade.

Although I think that the Pacers will have a much better chance at signing a contract in the 2016-2017 season as a UFA....I don't mind as much if the Pacers does make a MAX RFA Offer to him next season.

PacersHomer
12-18-2011, 03:13 AM
Eric Gordon, Aminu, and Kaman looked thrilled to be in New Orleans!

http://www.hornets247.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/new-hornets.jpg

Eleazar
12-18-2011, 04:46 AM
Eric Gordon, Aminu, and Kaman looked thrilled to be in New Orleans!

http://www.hornets247.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/new-hornets.jpg

Wow, haha they all look like they would rather die.

This is what I imagine them thinking in this picture.
Aminu: "What the *** am I doing here?"
Gordon: "I hate my life."
Kaman: "**** you."

IndySDExport
12-18-2011, 04:48 AM
Eric Gordon, Aminu, and Kaman looked thrilled to be in New Orleans!

http://www.hornets247.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/new-hornets.jpg

This is an amazing photo.

1984
12-18-2011, 09:01 AM
You lost me on the logic here.....what does PG destroying EJ with his 7 foot height ( more like 6'10" height ) have to does with how EJ is going to perform in the future? Is PG going to be the only person guarding EJ for the rest of his career?

EJ has averaged 16/16/20 ppg on 45% shooting in the 3 seasons he's been in the NBA as a 6'3" Starting SG on a crappy team against NBA level talent...many of which are taller then he is. I have ZERO concern about his height as he's been able to put up very good #s in this 1st 3 Seasons....I have no reasons to think that he cannot continue this progression as he gets older. I could care less if he is paid more then Granger....but I think that you have to offer EJ a MAX Level contract and force the NBA to match....he'd easily take us to the next level if you succeed in acquiring him.

Wait until they match-up. Paul George is as can jump higher, run faster, and look over the head of Eric Gordon. Add in Paul's length and he will destroy Gordon.

1984
12-18-2011, 09:03 AM
This league hAs had it's share of Eric Gordon's, but Paul George is unique.

Pacers#1Fan
12-18-2011, 02:47 PM
Wow, haha they all look like they would rather die.

This is what I imagine them thinking in this picture.
Aminu: "What the *** am I doing here?"
Gordon: "I wanna go home!"
Kaman: "**** you."

Fixed ;)

Pacersalltheway10
12-18-2011, 05:59 PM
Why the hell would you want Eric Gordon to sign an extension with NO. The Pacers would be lucky to get him as a free agent. If you don't like people talking about trading for him then don't open or continue looking at the thread if it upsets you so much. I hope he doesn't sign an extension and becomes a free agent in 2013 so the Pacers have a chance of getting him.

troyc11a
12-18-2011, 06:03 PM
I hope Gordon signs a max deal with New Orleans tomorrow so this crap can stop.

If Gordon gets a max deal, lets all hope and pray its not with the Pacers.
I am in favor of the Pacers signing him, just not for a max deal because he is not a max player.

CableKC
12-18-2011, 06:47 PM
Wait until they match-up. Paul George is as can jump higher, run faster, and look over the head of Eric Gordon. Add in Paul's length and he will destroy Gordon.
EJ has performed at a very high level as a 6'3" 3 year Combo Guards against quality NBA Level Talent and has still scored against most of them.

If you are pointing out to me that PG...a Player that will AT MOST only play EJ twice a year ( assuming that he stays in the West ) or 5 times a season...I don't see why PGs length is going to make any difference to EJ for 78 to 80 other games that EJ will be playing.

I agree with you there are 6'3 Combo Guards that haven't succeeded against taller Guards in the NBA....but EJ appears to be one of the exceptions.

BTW...I'm not suggesting that the Pacers trade PG for EJ...I'm suggesting that we make a run at him as a RFA.

CableKC
12-18-2011, 06:52 PM
If Gordon gets a max deal, lets all hope and pray its not with the Pacers.
I am in favor of the Pacers signing him, just not for a max deal because he is not a max player.
I'm curious as to why you think that. He's a 3rd year Player that has scored 16/16/20 on 45% shooting as a SG. Yes, he's on a crappy Team....but if there is anything that he's proven....he's a scorer.....something that Bird OBVIOUSLY thinks the Team needs...REGARDLESS IMHO of how PG develops. EJ hasn't even entered his prime yet. At the very least, he's a near MAX Player.

troyc11a
12-19-2011, 12:16 AM
I'm curious as to why you think that. He's a 3rd year Player that has scored 16/16/20 on 45% shooting as a SG. Yes, he's on a crappy Team....but if there is anything that he's proven....he's a scorer.....something that Bird OBVIOUSLY thinks the Team needs...REGARDLESS IMHO of how PG develops. EJ hasn't even entered his prime yet. At the very least, he's a near MAX Player.

He is much like Danny Granger. He is a catch and shoot guy. Unlike Granger he is undersized for his position. But most importantly, why would the Pacers give him a max contract when he has not shown he can stay on the court. He probably will get close to Granger money but let some other team pay it. He will be a very expensive cheerleader.

CableKC
12-19-2011, 12:32 AM
Eric Gordon, Aminu, and Kaman looked thrilled to be in New Orleans!

http://www.hornets247.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/new-hornets.jpg
Geez....whose the PR guys for the Hornets? Kaman looks like a homeless man.

jeffg-body
12-19-2011, 12:38 AM
I'd rather keep PG at the 2 spot for right now unless we end up trading Granger for a top tier 2 guard that can stay healthy and the ability to create thier own shot. Don't get me wrong, I am a big EJ fan but I think he would not be a good fit here and I am enamored with PG at the 2 spot for right now because of the match-up nightmare for other teams.