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View Full Version : Is There Any Chance Brandon Rush Plays To His Potential At Some Point?



presto123
12-15-2011, 11:46 PM
What do you guys think? How old is he? All the tools are there I just always wonder what's going on with the guy. Part of me wants him to stay on the team because I've seen the flashes of what he can do. Is it better to just move him along because he is a lost cause or can he develop into a good NBA player. Is he just immature? Maybe a sports psychologist would help:laugh:

Day-V
12-15-2011, 11:50 PM
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BobbyMac
12-15-2011, 11:51 PM
no

jeffg-body
12-15-2011, 11:52 PM
I think he will play to his full potential, after he is traded to another team.

Really?
12-15-2011, 11:54 PM
He is at his potential, I do not think he will ever change his game, hopefully I am wrong.

Psyren
12-15-2011, 11:55 PM
No.

Doddage
12-15-2011, 11:55 PM
If he ever decides to stop doing weed, then yes.

diamonddave00
12-15-2011, 11:56 PM
You are so right what he is now is the best he'll ever be as a Pacer. Very likely they won't even attempt to re-sign him.

presto123
12-15-2011, 11:59 PM
Get to the point though. What is the #1 problem with his game? I love how many flat out no's were getting though:)

MyFavMartin
12-16-2011, 12:00 AM
Consistency

Psyren
12-16-2011, 12:04 AM
Consistency. Effort. Hes very lazy. Too passive. Often "disappears"

presto123
12-16-2011, 12:07 AM
Consistency. Effort. Hes very lazy. Too passive. Often "disappears"

It's always been beyond me how someone can get paid that much and have that many people watching and not give the effort. I would feel so guilty I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

Eleazar
12-16-2011, 12:08 AM
No, he just doesn't have the mentality. In the right situation he could become extremely good, but not as good as if he had a better start. Out of everyone JOB hurt him the most out of our young guys.

PacersandIU
12-16-2011, 12:15 AM
I think this season will be the only one where we'll actually see any spark from Mr. Rush... he's been a consistent underachiever, and I really don't see that changing other than when his agent reminds him that this is a contract year. If he does better than usual this season, sign-and-trade him out of here and don't look back. Coming from a NCAA championship team, I thought he'd be a high quality guy with good work ethic, but it looks like he's just another Eric Dampier-type player.

Freddie fan
12-16-2011, 12:17 AM
Here's my start of a list with problems in Brandon's game:

1. Lack of consistent aggressiveness, particularly on offense. Looks quite good occasionally, but often disappears. He especially disappears in the final five minutes of close games with only 8.8 points per 48 minutes in those situations: http://82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM
2. Very soft game - I saw a statistic recently that said, if I remember this correctly, that on a percentage basis, Rush is among the bottom players in the league in the percentage of shots he takes near the basket as compared to outside shots. He rarely takes it to the hole, which contributes to him being a low percentage shooter (.421 last season, .422 career) and means he doesn't draw fouls or go to the line often.
3. Not a creator for others. Averaged 0.9 assists per game last season in 26 minutes of play. Averages 1.1 assists for his career.

I don't think Brandon will improve significantly in these areas. He seems immature for his age (26) and it is telling that the Pacers have been trying to get rid of him for a long time.

SkipperZ
12-16-2011, 12:17 AM
he is playing to his potential

diamonddave00
12-16-2011, 12:27 AM
I don't think Rush even likes playing basketball that much , its just something he was always good at growing up. I think it came so natural to him he never had to work that hard at it. But when he became a pro the lack of effort finally caught up to him and others passed him by.

Its basicly a way for him to make a good living without putting out max effort.

Of course this is just my opinion.

Eleazar
12-16-2011, 12:31 AM
he is playing to his potential

The first sign of a Rush hater is this.

presto123
12-16-2011, 12:33 AM
I don't think Rush even likes playing basketball that much , its just something he was always good at growing up. I think it came so natural to him he never had to work that hard at it. But when he became a pro the lack of effort finally caught up to him and others passed him by.

Its basicly a way for him to make a good living without putting out max effort.

Of course this is just my opinion.

Good point. Another way of saying he has the skills but not the fire. Sometimes the fire can be almost more important than the skills.

Sookie
12-16-2011, 12:54 AM
I think people are misguided at what his potential is.

Eleazar
12-16-2011, 12:56 AM
Good point. Another way of saying he has the skills but not the fire. Sometimes the fire can be almost more important than the skills.

Most certainly, he is basically the opposite of Hibbert in that sense. Hibbert doesn't have much natural talent, but he puts in the effort to make up for it.

Pacers4Life
12-16-2011, 02:32 AM
No. The guy has no sense of responsibility and plays basketball like a nervous tentative freshman.. College or HS. his defense is average because he's never "locked in" to a game (See: Dahntay Jones). He just has zero IT factor anywhere in his game and I for one am tired of hin.

Haywoode Workman
12-16-2011, 02:36 AM
he smokes weed man don't you know that? that stuff makes you automatically unsuccessful duh! SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE CANT SMOKE WEED DRUGS R DANGERUS! SAVE OUR CHILDRENS!

Peck
12-16-2011, 03:08 AM
Sad part is that he had the talent level to be a lock down defender. Having a coach that encouraged him to hoist perimater shots didn't help but even I won't go so far as to blame Satan for all of that. I am certain even he didn't want Brandon to plant himself in the corner and never move.

Let's also not forget that the guy is a horrid free throw shooter and his free throw attempts are a disgrace. But then again you aren't going to draw fouls shooting 22 ft jumpers all day.

I'd like to say a fresh start in a new place is in order but I think as I've gotten older I've come to believe that you either get it or you don't. Sure some turn on the switch and get it but far fewer ever do & I think Brandon falls into the second catagory.

able
12-16-2011, 05:30 AM
Sad part is that he had the talent level to be a lock down defender. Having a coach that encouraged him to hoist perimater shots didn't help but even I won't go so far as to blame Satan for all of that. I am certain even he didn't want Brandon to plant himself in the corner and never move.


Actually in an interview last year it came out that such was indeed his exact job, be the last option, stay there and stretch.

it was mostly that which made him give up and tune things out.

spazzxb
12-16-2011, 06:03 AM
No, he just doesn't have the mentality. In the right situation he could become extremely good, but not as good as if he had a better start. Out of everyone JOB hurt him the most out of our young guys.

And there it's is. Let the players be responsible for themselves. The excuses are pathetic.

HC
12-16-2011, 07:09 AM
The first sign of a Rush hater is this.


ahh...one of the most ridiculous, overused words in the english dictionary. You disagree with me, so clearly you must be a hater.

Speed
12-16-2011, 07:27 AM
Physical potential?

He's tethered by the mental restrictions in how he's put together, imo. So ya, he's reached his potential.

He was like this a Kansas and every year as a pro.

I understand why coaches limited what he was responsible for. He's physically capable of perform almost any single given task on the floor, since he's so gifted. Its when you start to have to put together a series of smart but yet instinctive basketball plays that he's lost.

So ya, this is as good as he gets. I always thought if you put him on last years Bulls team, he'd be much more highly regarded because he'd ONLY have to do the things he can get his mind around.

McKeyFan
12-16-2011, 07:46 AM
He's physically capable of perform almost any single given task on the floor, since he's so gifted. Its when you start to have to put together a series of smart but yet instinctive basketball plays that he's lost.

One of the great things about sports. Likely "gifted" athletes fail while unlikely suspects excel (Larry Bird, Tim Tebow, short guys like Chuck Hayes, etc.).

It's the reason I believe Tyler could still become really good.

MTM
12-16-2011, 08:02 AM
It was a mistake to re-up him last year - he could be gone already

Pacers24Colts12
12-16-2011, 08:35 AM
Being a contract year, I fully expect this to be the year Rush breaks out.

xIndyFan
12-16-2011, 09:05 AM
i think there still is a chance that brandon can play up to his potential. but i don't think he will be given the chance to play here. unless there is an outbreak of injury, brandon will be watching the games in a suit from behind the bench.

cordobes
12-16-2011, 09:41 AM
I think he's pretty close to it. Good role-player, defends, rebounds, very good shooter from distance.

BornReady
12-16-2011, 10:41 AM
It's always been beyond me how someone can get paid that much and have that many people watching and not give the effort. I would feel so guilty I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

Between you and Rush, that makes one of you :D

1984
12-16-2011, 10:58 AM
He has reached his potential, Brandon Rush will is the coequal of Kareem Rush. Fortunately, Jerryd Bayless is a bust.

Justin Tyme
12-16-2011, 11:05 AM
I think people are misguided at what his potential is.



That could be said of Kareem as well. You remember that great 3 pt shooter who Bird told the fans he was bringing in that season.

sam kaiserblade
12-16-2011, 11:22 AM
He did tear his ACL back in 2007ish. Maybe he never recovered.

ThatPacerFan
12-16-2011, 11:24 AM
I think before his ACL injury(that he injured in an illegal practice session run by the knicks) he was considered a top 5 draft pick

pacers74
12-16-2011, 11:29 AM
He has reached his potential, Brandon Rush will is the coequal of Kareem Rush. Fortunately, Jerryd Bayless is a bust.

I was thinking the same thing about him and his brother. Neither of them reached their potential. I think a one point his brother was a better shooter, but Brandon does play better defense. Brandon is what he is. A role player who can give you 10-15 minutes a night play descent defense and sometimes give you double digits in scoring.

aaronb
12-16-2011, 11:45 AM
He has reached his potential, Brandon Rush will is the coequal of Kareem Rush. Fortunately, Jerryd Bayless is a bust.


Could not disagree more. At the WORST Jerryd Bayless will be a better version of George Hill. At best he will end up being Ben Gordon.

Keep in mind that THIS year would have been his rookie year if he stayed in school. He has shown flashes of brilliant play.

sportfireman
12-16-2011, 11:47 AM
I'm not sure what BRush's potential is but I believe he will make a consistantly good showing this year. It is a contract year for him.... whether it be here or somewhere else I think he wants to get paid, so I say he shows up alot.

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 11:49 AM
I think he's pretty close to it. Good role-player, defends, rebounds, very good shooter from distance.

This!!

Brandon is a very good role player. Which is not bad value for the 13th pick a lot of them end up as bust and out of the league in a few years. People on this board just put ridiculous expectations on every player on the team. Case in point they wouldn't trade Paul George for Eric Gordon.

pacergod2
12-16-2011, 11:53 AM
This!!

Brandon is a very good role player. Which is not bad value for the 13th pick a lot of them end up as bust and out of the league in a few years. People on this board just put ridiculous expectations on every player on the team. Case in point they wouldn't trade Paul George for Eric Gordon.

I would say that Bayless had little to no expectations since he never got to play. Brandon has had a huge amount of expectations with the playing time he got early. He was in a terrible system, yet he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt for the lack of a fit like other players do. Bayless should be able to show what he can do this year in Toronto. I hope he does well. Brandon would be great for a team like the Spurs or Celtics or Lakers, who would utilize him for his defense and three point shooting. Brandon has a good mid-range game that we rarely got to see because of his "role" in the offense. Defensively, he is one of the best defenders in the league at the two spot. People aren't happy with defense and playing within a poor-fitting role, because most people fail to recognize those things. Brandon, you damn pot smoker. I still think we won that Portland deal.

aaronb
12-16-2011, 11:54 AM
This!!

Case in point they wouldn't trade Paul George for Eric Gordon.


Last year we had Roy,Granger,Collision, Paul George,Lance and Magnum Rolle all ready to be perennial all-stars

Scot Pollard
12-16-2011, 11:54 AM
This!!

Brandon is a very good role player. Which is not bad value for the 13th pick a lot of them end up as bust and out of the league in a few years. People on this board just put ridiculous expectations on every player on the team. Case in point they wouldn't trade Paul George for Eric Gordon.

That last statement is a matter of opinion.

It's not like trading Paul is a no brainer.

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 12:03 PM
I would say that Bayless had little to no expectations since he never got to play. Brandon has had a huge amount of expectations with the playing time he got early. He was in a terrible system, yet he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt for the lack of a fit like other players do. Bayless should be able to show what he can do this year in Toronto. I hope he does well. Brandon would be great for a team like the Spurs or Celtics or Lakers, who would utilize him for his defense and three point shooting. Brandon has a good mid-range game that we rarely got to see because of his "role" in the offense. Defensively, he is one of the best defenders in the league at the two spot. People aren't happy with defense and playing within a poor-fitting role, because most people fail to recognize those things. Brandon, you damn pot smoker. I still think we won that Portland deal.
Thats the thing with some Pacer fans they think it is a popularity contest instead of a basketball game. Do I agree with the things Brush does off the court?? No not really(I dont really care) but I dont let that cloud my judgment of Brandon Rush the player. It just seems like some people dis like the player Brandon Rush because he smokes weed which is sad. I feel Brandon will go to a team like the Heat next year and backup Dwade and you will see how valuable Brandon is great defense and 3pt shooting is a great thing to have off the bench. Just look at Thabo Sefolosha's role in OKC he didnt look that great in Chicago because they stunk but he went to a good team and he looks great. Brandon is a much better player than he gets credit for on this board and in a few years he will show it.



Last year we had Roy,Granger,Collision, Paul George,Lance and Magnum Rolle all ready to be perennial all-stars

to be an allstar to most PD'ers you just have to tweet out positive stuff ;)

tfarks
12-16-2011, 12:08 PM
One of the great things about sports. Likely "gifted" athletes fail while unlikely suspects excel (Larry Bird, Tim Tebow, short guys like Chuck Hayes, etc.).

It's the reason I believe Tyler could still become really good.

What is this isht?

How was Larry Bird unlikely to excel? When he was drafted a measly 6th overall?

Tebow is an elite athlete. Have you seen his combine numbers? Running the ball and making an occasional competent pass was not at all unlikely. In fact it's all he's ever done.

Since86
12-16-2011, 12:16 PM
What is this isht?

How was Larry Bird unlikely to excel? When he was drafted a measly 6th overall?

Tebow is an elite athlete. Have you seen his combine numbers? Running the ball and making an occasional competent pass was not at all unlikely. In fact it's all he's ever done.

And Larry and Tim aren't excelling because of phsyical traits, but rather mental ones. Larry was routinely laughed at on the basketball court, until he started playing.

That's his point. You can't teach someone mental toughness, determination, etc. They either take it upon themselves to exhibit those traits, or they don't. Brandon Rush doesn't. He has every phsyical tool to be a better basketball player, but he doesn't have the space inbetween his ears right to do it.

And it's not a bad thing, but at a certain point in time, you are what you are.

RWB
12-16-2011, 12:17 PM
to be an allstar to most PD'ers you just have to tweet out positive stuff ;)

Or at least don't tweet negative juvenile stuff (yeah I know he was hacked). He needs to learn to be professional in all aspects.

tfarks
12-16-2011, 12:23 PM
They both excelled from physical traits. What's so impressive about Tebow mentally? That he's still running a college offense? Good God has this guy been hyped up beyond belief.

Did Bird not benefit from being 6'9"? Or is it all mental to have the coordination to make a pinpoint pass running full speed?

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 12:24 PM
What is this isht?

How was Larry Bird unlikely to excel? When he was drafted a measly 6th overall?

Tebow is an elite athlete. Have you seen his combine numbers? Running the ball and making an occasional competent pass was not at all unlikely. In fact it's all he's ever done.

http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=1735241

Tebow was a 5 star recruit and Bama and Florida were fighting for his service. Tebow has been the best player at every level for his team I don't know how people cant call him gifted especially in terms of physically. He is athletic beast and he can throw and he has thrown at every level.

Yes Tebow and Bird success mostly because they refuse to lose a trait most dont have but they were both very skilled physically especially Tebow.

And Bird was 6"9 and had amazing quick hands and amazing coordination. He had more talent physically than people give him credit for yes he worked his *** off like Tebow but so does 90% of pro athletics.

tfarks
12-16-2011, 12:25 PM
Can we stop overrating the intelligence level of white guys in sports period, actually?

Since86
12-16-2011, 12:26 PM
Every professional athlete has physical traits. Maybe not every, but 90+%. Players like Brian Cardinal are the exceptions.

The mental aspect is what seperates professional athletes. MJ wasn't the most gifted athlete in the NBA, but his personality set him apart.

Or Gerald Green would still be producing in the league, instead of barely hanging on.

Since86
12-16-2011, 12:27 PM
Can we stop overrating the intelligence level of white guys in sports period, actually?

You're reading way too far into it.

tfarks
12-16-2011, 12:30 PM
You're reading way too far into it.

I get the fact that 2 people with similar physical traits, mentality wins out.

But I think I'm reading just right into white guys intelligence bias in sports.

tfarks
12-16-2011, 12:31 PM
How damn smart is that Denver defense?

Trophy
12-16-2011, 12:35 PM
Brandon's really not a bad person at all or even a bad player.

As mentioned, he's a solid role player who plays good D and can make open shots when created for him.

As a person, he's a really cool guy. Always fun to talk to before games.

Although, it looks like he won't get too much time and I wouldn't be angry if we traded him and got something valuable to us in return.

Justin Tyme
12-16-2011, 01:32 PM
Fortunately, Jerryd Bayless is a bust.


REALLY! You might just want to go back to last years games in April when Bayless was getting PT. He averaged 20 plus PPG playing PG. That's anything but a bust. You seem to be making the bust call a little premature.

Justin Tyme
12-16-2011, 01:40 PM
I'm not sure what BRush's potential is but I believe he will make a consistantly good showing this year. It is a contract year for him.... whether it be here or somewhere else I think he wants to get paid, so I say he shows up alot.


Some place else in another team's uni maybe, but not in a Pacers uni. Bird has realized what BRush is as a player, and he has tried 2 years in a row to trade him at the trade deadline. If it is correct the S&T trade of McBob for Mayo failed, b/c Memphis wouldn't take Rush. 3 times trades have soured he was part of.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 01:44 PM
How did Tim Tebow get into a thread about Brandon Rush?

BPump33
12-16-2011, 01:45 PM
How did Tim Tebow get into a thread about Brandon Rush?

Because Tim Tebow is everywhere. Tim Tebow is all around us.

Justin Tyme
12-16-2011, 02:00 PM
Thabo Sefolosha's role in OKC he didnt look that great in Chicago because they stunk but he went to a good team and he looks great.


He doesn't look great. He's in the same role Dahntay was in at Denver with JR Smith being the better player with Dahntay having gotten the starting minutes. Thabo isn't even the best SG on the team, his b/u is.... James Hardin.

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 02:07 PM
He doesn't look great. He's in the same role Dahntay was in at Denver with JR Smith being the better player with Dahntay having gotten the starting minutes. Thabo isn't even the best SG on the team, his b/u is.... James Hardin.

I agree he shouldn't be starting and have heard he wont be this year but he is a good role player just like Rush.
Thabo has played 31,28,26 mpg last 3 years I expect him to be around 25 this year with Harden playing a bigger role but he still plays quite a bit.

Since86
12-16-2011, 02:22 PM
Harden said on twitter last night that he will be coming off the bench again this season.

Hicks
12-16-2011, 02:43 PM
Talk about Tebow someplace else, please. Thanks.

beast23
12-16-2011, 05:46 PM
This!!

Brandon is a very good role player. Which is not bad value for the 13th pick a lot of them end up as bust and out of the league in a few years. People on this board just put ridiculous expectations on every player on the team. Case in point they wouldn't trade Paul George for Eric Gordon.

Oh come on. Last year it was the DunJr vs Rush debate. This year it's just trying to say that Rush has a place on the team.

Pure and simple, it's time for Rush to crap or get off the pot. What I expect from even mediocre players is consistent effort every night out. We don't get that from Rush. What I expect from a very good role player is at least some level of mental toughness... every night out. We don't get that from Rush.

Even if Rush is not contributing offensively, he should be a great defender, each and every game. That is NOT expecting too much; it is a very real expectation, considering his abilities.

If Rush were a very good role player, I would expect him, first of all, to know his limitations. And secondly, I would expect him to learn to play to his potential with respect to his limitations. Rush doesn't have a clue what his limitations are because he plays far too passively. When he gets on the floor, he needs to see his opportunities, even if he doesn't seek to create them, and take advantage of these opportunities as they present themselves.

Unfortunately, after 3 years, I have no faith whatsoever in Rush taking advantage of the opportunities as they come along, because he either is afraid to play aggressively, or simply doesn't have the stomach for it.

A good role player? Hardly. Why? Because you don't have a clue what you are going to get.

The sooner he is traded the happier I will be.

P.S. I will GLADLY apologize to "the world" should Rush change his demeanor and start playing even like half the player he is capable of being. However, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

vnzla81
12-16-2011, 05:57 PM
This!!

Brandon is a very good role player. Which is not bad value for the 13th pick a lot of them end up as bust and out of the league in a few years. People on this board just put ridiculous expectations on every player on the team. Case in point they wouldn't trade Paul George for Eric Gordon.

Case in point people expecting 20 and 9 from Dwest ;)

1984
12-17-2011, 09:22 AM
REALLY! You might just want to go back to last years games in April when Bayless was getting PT. He averaged 20 plus PPG playing PG. That's anything but a bust. You seem to be making the bust call a little premature.

You're right, he was explosive for the freakin' Raptors. Maybe it isn't right to call him a "bust", but it is relieving to see that Bayless has not overachieved. I did not like the Bayless trade; I thought Bayless was far better than Rush.

speakout4
12-17-2011, 10:40 AM
Ask why Brandon is always part of every trade Larry attempts each year? They seem intent to want to get rid of him. To say that one can't expect more from his draft position is to say we should expect less from DG, DC, AJ, Tyler and everyone else who was drafted lower than Brandon.

He is a good shooter when he shoots but doesn't shoot unless there is absolutely no one near him. If DG picked his shots the way Brandon does he would be in the Larry Bird category.

I fully expect that he will perform better in his contract year and hopefully we don't fall for that ploy.

Justin Tyme
12-17-2011, 10:41 AM
You're right, he was explosive for the freakin' Raptors. Maybe it isn't right to call him a "bust", but it is relieving to see that Bayless has not overachieved. I did not like the Bayless trade; I thought Bayless was far better than Rush.


Look at it this way, Rush couldn't even succeed to the level of his supposed potential with the Pacers either. I also feel Bayless is better than Rush. I've monitored his career from the beginning. To be quite honest, if Bayless continues to play like he did the latter part of last season, w/o a doubt he'll be the better player between the two. I'm looking forward to seeing how he plays this year.

To be quite honest, this trade could end up being nothing more than a wash.

Winner
12-17-2011, 01:09 PM
Get to the point though. What is the #1 problem with his game? I love how many flat out no's were getting though:)

Confidence and consistency.

Strummer
12-17-2011, 01:25 PM
It depends. It's obvious at this point he can't do it himself.

If we sign a SG to be our bench scorer, then Rush will never reach his potential with us.

If we don't sign anyone then it's up to the coaches and point guards to get the most out of Rush.

The coaches need to sit down with Rush and explain his role. Tell him they want him to shoot the ball. Early and often. See if they can develop that mentality.

And they need to define where it is on the floor that he wants to shoot from. Make it Collison and Hill's responsibility to get him the ball in those places. Make it a team goal to get Rush a minimum of 10 open shots per game from his favorite locations. But even though it's a team goal, the passes need to come from either the point guards or kick outs. We don't want everyone looking for Rush every play.

Try that for 10 games or so. See what happens. If he shoots well let that become a natural part of the offense.

And if Rush passes up open shots then the point guards need to get on him. This is where leadership comes in.

What do we have to lose? (Games? oh yeah...)

Pacer Fan
12-17-2011, 01:31 PM
Bird, Tebow and...and...Rush? (that was hard to do in the same sentance)
What is the connection here? Cause everything Bird and Tebow was/are... Rush isn't?

Brad8888
12-18-2011, 07:05 PM
He probably will, now that he is going to a new team.