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View Full Version : Would you offer Paul George to NOLA to Eric Gordon right now?



aaronb
12-15-2011, 03:50 PM
New Orleans is obviously entering a rebuilding stage. One concern they have to have now is that Eric Gordon will be a RFA at season's end. Totally possible that you could entice them with a George for Gordon swap if they are worried that Gordon bolts at season's end.

Would you make that trade if you were in the Pacers FO?

Gamble1
12-15-2011, 03:55 PM
New Orleans is obviously entering a rebuilding stage. One concern they have to have now is that Eric Gordon will be a RFA at season's end. Totally possible that you could entice them with a George for Gordon swap if they are worried that Gordon bolts at season's end.

Would you make that trade if you were in the Pacers FO?
THe first Heck YES... YAAA...:D

Ownagedood
12-15-2011, 03:57 PM
I love Paul George and think he will be an All-Star..

But at this point i would do that trade.. Gordon is a top tier scorer in this league. George has a lot of potential, but sometimes potential doesn't pan out. And if you can straight up trade potential for an actual star I think you should do it.

Gordon is one of the only players i would trade him for though. Elite scorer and from Indiana

bballpacen
12-15-2011, 03:57 PM
SMH:shakehead

Shade
12-15-2011, 04:02 PM
I wouldn't be quite as enthusiastic as the poll indicates, but yes, I would trade PG for EJ. And there aren't many players I would trade PG for.

P_George
12-15-2011, 04:05 PM
I think PG's potential, mixed with his size, athleticism, and ability to defend multiple positions makes him the only guy on this team I really wouldn't shop around at all. Gordon's good and all, but -- he's not an elite player and I truly think George can develop into a top 15 or so player in this league. He has all of the tools.

Gamble1
12-15-2011, 04:07 PM
If Paul George can have the handles of Eric Gordon I wouldn't do that trade but right now he's not as talented as a scorer as Gordon is.


He has all of the tools. His ball handeling skills suck for a 2 guard.

Kemo
12-15-2011, 04:07 PM
NOPE , no way .. NO HOW...

MrHale
12-15-2011, 04:08 PM
No way. the obsession wit gordon is crazy, I'll take the risk of a 6'10 george being better in the long run and I wouldn't be suprised if george tears it up this year.

The Sleeze
12-15-2011, 04:08 PM
Right now, Yes...but I'd have to be assured that EG would sign an extension.

glazedham42
12-15-2011, 04:10 PM
I would keep Paul for 4 reasons:

1) I think Paul has the potential to be better than EJ at BOTH ends of the court. Currently, he is not. But there is the potential for him to be a perennial all star.

2) Paul is a very big SG. That creates a lot of mismatches and allows him to score more easily. Gives him a definite advantage shooting over smaller defenders.

3) EJ has had some injury problems in the past. He may be healthy for a long time now, or he may continue the trend. I would bet that the injury trend continues. For his sake, I hope it does not.

4) EJ is a small SG at 6'3". It's harder for him to score, get his shot off, and play defense against bigger 2's. He's always going to take more punishment because he's smaller than most of the guys he's playing against. That could play into the injury factor as well.

Cactus Jax
12-15-2011, 04:12 PM
Yes, I'd do this trade. PG can be great, EJ already is great and fits the team better than Paul does. The only problem is I doubt that would be enough alone to do it, you'd probably have to add in Hans and/or a 1st round pick and that makes the trade a little more questionable.

PR07
12-15-2011, 04:12 PM
Gordon is by far a more sure thing because he currently is playing at an all-star level. While George has shown flashes of brilliance, it's yet to be determined whether he'll be able to put it all together. I think I'd make the trade simply based on that even if PG has a higher ceiling. There aren't many people I'd deal him for, so that says a lot.

presto123
12-15-2011, 04:13 PM
Ask me after this season.The time is now for George to step up to the plate and show us more of what we have seen in flashes. Time to get aggressive Paul. Potential is only just that....potential. It means nothing at the end of the day. I still don't see him as an All Star. I hope he proves me wrong and then some. As the old Rush song says.......show me don't tell me.

Sandman21
12-15-2011, 04:14 PM
Why make the deal when we can wait a year and *probably* bring EJ in as an UFA and have BOTH?

CreekShow
12-15-2011, 04:19 PM
THe first Heck YES... YAAA...:D

Strong username/post coorelation.

There is no way that is a good deal for Indiana. Doesnt make sense to trade the player with the most potential on the entire team, for a player, who we already have a good idea of the type of player he'll be (in gordon).

Im 100% in favor of getting EJ whenever we can, and however we can. But the only 2 players who ARENT expendable to me are PG and Tyler

tennymf
12-15-2011, 04:21 PM
I had a problem selecting the "Heck yes!" option, because I wouldn't be that exuberant about it. I would make the trade though. Gordon is established, while George has potential. Also, Gordon is a true 2-guard. I think George is better-suited for the SF position. My biggest concern would be with Gordon's apparent propensity for injury.

thefeistyone
12-15-2011, 04:21 PM
I don't think I could do it. Main reason is I think we have a pretty good shot at signing him after this season or the next.

Sollozzo
12-15-2011, 04:26 PM
Gordon is already what you hope George's maximum ceiling is. Why would anyone not trade PG for Eric Gordon?

Ace E.Anderson
12-15-2011, 04:28 PM
I would be very tempted to do this trade, but a few things stop me from doing so. Aside from shooting/scoring, what else does Gordon bring to the table? Yes he is a strong defender, BUT he won't be able to be a lockdown defender at 6'3. Also EJ has had some injury issues as well.

And then there is the chemistry issue. I think part of what made the pacers a joy to watch after Vogel took over, was the chemistry and cohesion they demonstrated. They all seem to play hard, and play together. Bringing in a player who is more of a one-on-one type of scorer could hurt that cohesion (although we may have a need for that one on one type of scorer in the closing moments of games)

All in all, I'd take a 6'10 wing who has already shown he can be a lockdown defender, and has the potential to be a matchup nightmare, than a 6'3 shooter/scorer who only affects the team offensively.

Gamble1
12-15-2011, 04:29 PM
Strong username/post coorelation.

There is no way that is a good deal for Indiana. Doesnt make sense to trade the player with the most potential on the entire team, for a player, who we already have a good idea of the type of player he'll be (in gordon).

Im 100% in favor of getting EJ whenever we can, and however we can. But the only 2 players who ARENT expendable to me are PG and Tyler
Everybody realizes that Ej is only 23 right and still improving his own game.

Ej is far from being a finished product but he is what most of us want PG to atleast become. IF Paul George doesn't work on his handles he will always have a hard time on offense. He can still be effective but PG makes Danny look like he's an awesome dribble drive guy.

I can't get this moment out of my mind. Look at the 1:15 mark in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5UJYJTFgWI&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Infinite MAN_force
12-15-2011, 04:31 PM
This Eric Gordon stuff is getting ridiculous. Can we focus on our team please?

Ace E.Anderson
12-15-2011, 04:33 PM
Gordon is already what you hope George's maximum ceiling is. Why would anyone not trade PG for Eric Gordon?

We are all going to be a little disappointed If PG's ceiling stops at Eric Gordon's level.

Though I don't fully see him reaching it, I'd say George's MAXIMUM ceiling is T-Mac when he was with the Orlando Magic. And that player was FAR SUPERIOR to Eric Gordon.

Kemo
12-15-2011, 04:35 PM
Yes, I'd do this trade. PG can be great, EJ already is great and fits the team better than Paul does. The only problem is I doubt that would be enough alone to do it, you'd probably have to add in Hans and/or a 1st round pick and that makes the trade a little more questionable.

I wouldn't do it as a 1 for 1 swap , let alone adding more...

I seriously get so frustrated with seeing people making some sort of trade suggestion to trade one of our guys in EVERY thread.. OR making a new thread about it .... I love you all but damn guys ....lol


I know if I were a Pacer, and I covertly read PD often, I would be frustrated as hell... and not know what to think.. It's no wonder Roy had some minor issues with the mental aspect of the game in the past.. If truths knowing , between reading PD and dealing with JOB , it's no wonder Roy had to hire a team psychologist last year...
Are you guys trying to mess with Paul George's head too?
One minute he is kobe 2.0 , the next minute someone wants to trade him..


Can we PLEASE cut some of this trade rhetoric down a few notches? and not in every single thread and in at least 50% of new threads..?


I don't know who your team is , but my team is out on the floor... (in Pacers unis)

Infinite MAN_force
12-15-2011, 04:36 PM
Gordon is already what you hope George's maximum ceiling is. Why would anyone not trade PG for Eric Gordon?

Gordon will never be the defender George is RIGHT NOW, not to say Eric's a bad defender, but Paul George is a freakish athlete with excellent defensive instincts. He's quick enough to defend PG's and big enough to absolutely punish SG's with his size.

George is a huge potential mismatch problem for other teams, and he's on a rookie contract for 3 more seasons. Eric gets paid next season. Likely overpaid.

The only reason everyone is obsessed with Gordon is because he's local. Period.

trs72
12-15-2011, 04:37 PM
I voted no way. Why trade George for Gordon when we might be able to get him if he becomes a free agent. I think his a FA this year or next, cant remember exactly. Why not just wait till then that way we will know if George is for real.

Naptown_Seth
12-15-2011, 04:39 PM
More length, better defender, more likely to have both inside and outside scoring.

EJ is interesting and would be a nice addition to the Danny, Paul 2/3 rotation but I wouldn't even consider swapping them at this point.

CreekShow
12-15-2011, 04:41 PM
This Eric Gordon stuff is getting ridiculous. Can we focus on our team please?

There are plenty of threads for that already :rolleyes:

pezasied182
12-15-2011, 04:41 PM
Gordon will never be the defender George is RIGHT NOW, not to say Eric's a bad defender, but Paul George is a freakish athlete with excellent defensive instincts. He's quick enough to defend PG's and big enough to absolutely punish SG's with his size.

George is a huge potential mismatch problem for other teams, and he's on a rookie contract for 3 more seasons. Eric gets paid next season. Likely overpaid.

The only reason everyone is obsessed with Gordon is because he's local. Period.

Agreed.

Gordon is certainly a great player, but he does get hyped up here a lot. Fans from Indiana are clamoring for him like fans in Utah want Jimmer, and both are likely never to happen

graphic-er
12-15-2011, 04:41 PM
I said no way but its close imo. I'd also have to ask....how clutch is Eric Gordon? Has he hit game winners? Big 4th qtr shots? I'm a bit worried about his durability.

Gamble1
12-15-2011, 04:42 PM
I wouldn't do it as a 1 for 1 swap , let alone adding more...

I seriously get so damn fed up and frustrated with alot of the posters here making some sort of trade suggestion to trade one of our guys in EVERY dang thread.. OR making a new thread about it .... I love you all but damn guys ....lol


I know if I were a Pacer, and I covertly read PD often, I would be frustrated as hell... and not know what to think.. It's no wonder Roy had some minor issues with the mental aspect of the game in the past.. If truths knowing , between reading PD and dealing with JOB , it's no wonder Roy had to hire a team psychologist last year...
Are you guys trying to mess with Paul George's head too?


Can we PLEASE cut some of this trade rhetoric down a few notches?
Man Kemo I think Pro athletes have thicker skin than that.

If I was million dollar pro athlete I would care about what Cactus Jack thought of me (No offense CJ). I think NBA players have had their fair share of doubters growing up so why should this bother them. We aren't denying he's talented.

Infinite MAN_force
12-15-2011, 04:43 PM
There are plenty of threads for that already :rolleyes:

What I'm saying is, I want to focus on things that exist in reality. This Eric Gordon thing is a fantasy, its not gonna happen. People need to let the Hoosier man crush go.

Ratking
12-15-2011, 04:44 PM
Oversized SG/SF dripping with potential beats undersized SG anyday.

yoadknux
12-15-2011, 04:44 PM
It depends. Would Herb be kind enough to invest enough cash so that we could keep Roy and Eric (and maybe George Hill as well) here? If he does, then...
I would absolutely do it and I doubt the Hornets would do it unless we add something like 2 first round picks. In that case, then I would have to think about it.
Gordon is a young scoring shooting guard. I don't care about him being from Indy or anything like that. He's just a really good player and I'd take young PROVEN talent over young POTENTIAL talent

Kemo
12-15-2011, 04:44 PM
Gordon is already what you hope George's maximum ceiling is. Why would anyone not trade PG for Eric Gordon?

Maximum ceiling?? you gotta be kidding me.... no PG's maximum ceiling is that of an elite star in this league...
Gordon probably isn't gonna get much better than he already is.. a little bit , sure... but not a lot

Infinite MAN_force
12-15-2011, 04:47 PM
If Eric Gordon was from California and he went to Duke this thread would not exist, and people would find this idea ridiculous.

People absolutely balked at including George in a deal that would have netted us a top 5 PG in Rondo... now we are swapping him for Gordon? Undersized shooting guard?

Kemo
12-15-2011, 04:47 PM
Man Kemo I think Pro athletes have thicker skin than that.

If I was million dollar pro athlete I would care about what Cactus Jack thought of me (No offense CJ). I think NBA players have had their fair share of doubters growing up so why should this bother them. We aren't denying he's talented.

True, but u also got to understand , rookies and relatively new players coming into the league are gonna be scouring the web seeing what people are writing about them.. That's just human nature... Just because they come into the NBA , don't mean they automatically gain the wisdom of a thick skinned nba player imediately. It's a learned trait, and an important one with the age of the internet.. where every dumb-arse with an opinion has to proclaim it and make it known , no matter how ignorant or well thought out that opinion may be...lol

vnzla81
12-15-2011, 05:00 PM
Yeah I like how people change their minds about every single thing here depending on what side they are on, I remember the "hell no I won't trade Paul George for CP3 are you crazy?" or the "hell no I won't trade him for Rondo because Rondo can't shoot" now they want to trade him for an undersize SG that is hurt must of the time, I think I am going to open a new thread suggesting to trade PG for Monta Ellis(a better player than EJ) to see how many crazy answers I get.

pezasied182
12-15-2011, 05:05 PM
Yeah I like how people change their minds about every single thing here depending on what side they are on, I remember the "hell no I won't trade Paul George for CP3 are you crazy?" or the "hell no I won't trade him for Rondo because Rondo can't shoot" now they want to trade him for an undersize SG that is hurt must of the time, I think I am going to open a new thread suggesting to trade PG for Monta Ellis(a better player than EJ) to see how many crazy answers I get.

I think the only two players you could do a PG for swap that would get some positive feedback would be Hayward and Gordon. The Monta comparison is a good one to make.

Gamble1
12-15-2011, 05:06 PM
If Eric Gordon was from California and he went to Duke this thread would not exist, and people would find this idea ridiculous.

People absolutely balked at including George in a deal that would have netted us a top 5 PG in Rondo... now we are swapping him for Gordon? Undersized shooting guard?
I think the only person on here who cares if he would have gone to Duke or not is Naptown Seth...:D

For me I see a 23 year old kid who is already 13th in scoring in the entire NBA despite only playing 3 years in the league. He shoots a high FG% and among the top scorers in the league he ranks around 5th in 3 point shooting.

His assist per game are right up there with Kobe or Wade last year so why again is this idea ridiculous?

Unclebuck
12-15-2011, 05:09 PM
I don't know. I think I would ask for one of the picks the Hpornets got from the Clips (the T-Wolves pick) that would obviously kill the deal and I would stick with George and be very happy.

I have not followed Gordon as closely as most of you, but isn't he injury prone?

I probably wouldn't trade George for Eric, but I don't feel strongly either way

Since86
12-15-2011, 05:10 PM
I voted no, but PG is really the only one I wouldn't want to trade for him. It would really depend on who else is involved. If it's a one-for-one swap, then no.

Lance George
12-15-2011, 05:19 PM
6'3" SG Ben Gordon vs. 6'3" SG Eric Gordon - First 3 Seasons (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=gordoer01&y1=2011&p2=gordobe01&y2=2007)

Statistically, Ben was slightly better through his first three seasons than Eric's been, and he did it while missing only two games, whereas Eric's missed 50 games, including 46 over the past two seasons (20 in 09-10 and 26 in 10-11).

As for Gordon vs. George...

Gordon's more proven, obviously, but has size limitations and major injury concerns.

George is still a wildcard, but his physical gifts are almost flawless.

Gordon is a triple; George is swinging for the fences.

I'm probably an unreasonable homer, but I'll go with Paul George.

Kid Minneapolis
12-15-2011, 05:19 PM
I refrain from answering this question for 1 season. Get back with me after we see what George does this year. Gordon is a helluva offensive player. Right now, you go with Gordon. Down the road, PG could blow him outta the water.

Gamble1
12-15-2011, 05:24 PM
I don't know. I think I would ask for one of the picks the Hpornets got from the Clips (the T-Wolves pick) that would obviously kill the deal and I would stick with George and be very happy.

I have not followed Gordon as closely as most of you, but isn't he injury prone?

I probably wouldn't trade George for Eric, but I don't feel strongly either way
EJ has played 80% of the games in a 3 year period which is a small sample size. I can give you Wades percentage and it would look very similar to EJ's early in his career.



6'3" SG Ben Gordon vs. 6'3" SG Eric Gordon - First 3 Seasons (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=gordoer01&y1=2011&p2=gordobe01&y2=2007)

Statistically, Ben was slightly better through his first three seasons than Eric's been, and he did it while missing only two games, whereas Eric's missed 50 games, including 46 over the past two seasons (20 in 09-10 and 26 in 10-11).

I think everyone realizes that Ben Gordon is no Eric Gordon. Ben hasn't even started the majority of the games he's played in.

swifty1812
12-15-2011, 05:29 PM
I say stick with the one that is going to cost the team less money. PG has too much potential at this point, even if it is for a proven player in EJ. Especially when you take into account EJ's injury history.

tennymf
12-15-2011, 05:32 PM
I think I am going to open a new thread suggesting to trade PG for Monta Ellis(a better player than EJ) to see how many crazy answers I get.


I think the only two players you could do a PG for swap that would get some positive feedback would be Hayward and Gordon. The Monta comparison is a good one to make.


If Eric Gordon was from California and he went to Duke this thread would not exist, and people would find this idea ridiculous.

I hesitantly voted for Gordon. I'm neither an IU fan nor local to Indy. Gordon might as well have been from California and gone to Duke for all I care. I would definitely trade George for Ellis (without hesitation). Monta is a 24.1/5.6/3.5 player with a 18.7 PER. George is an unproven second-year player. I love his potential and love having him on the Pacers, but he is not at the level of Ellis or Gordon.

(For the record, I would not even consider trading George for Hayward.)

PG-24
12-15-2011, 05:41 PM
maybe its an indy thing, but it seems EJ is Eric Gordon? how does that work.. someone fill me in on why and how please

edc
12-15-2011, 05:44 PM
No. If a rookie can guard derrick rose he should be develop more not traded.

Infinite MAN_force
12-15-2011, 05:53 PM
I think the only person on here who cares if he would have gone to Duke or not is Naptown Seth...:D

For me I see a 23 year old kid who is already 13th in scoring in the entire NBA despite only playing 3 years in the league. He shoots a high FG% and among the top scorers in the league he ranks around 5th in 3 point shooting.

His assist per game are right up there with Kobe or Wade last year so why again is this idea ridiculous?

Never said he wasn't a good player, he's really good.

However, he's not a game changer. He's another second tier wing Ala Granger, Gay, Johnson... he's desirable right now because he hasn't had his payday yet. That day is about to come. If he gets the Max like people keep saying he will, its Joe Johnson all over again.

He'd be a nice addition, but not worth trading George (or hibbert for that matter). Also not worth a Max contract. I also think its 95% likely he stays with the hornets... who likely overpay, because what else are they gonna do?

Infinite MAN_force
12-15-2011, 05:54 PM
maybe its an indy thing, but it seems EJ is Eric Gordon? how does that work.. someone fill me in on why and how please

Eric Gordon Jr. Aka EJ.

Sparhawk
12-15-2011, 06:00 PM
Eric Gordon Jr. Aka EJ.

I still think that makes no sense. EG makes more sense than EJ. EJ just sounds dumb to me. How'd he get that nickname?

Sparhawk
12-15-2011, 06:00 PM
If we can also get that Timberwolve first rounder back, I'd do it.

Other than that, I'd prefer to keep PG.

pacer4ever
12-15-2011, 06:01 PM
I still think that makes no sense. EG makes more sense than EJ. EJ just sounds dumb to me. How'd he get that nickname?

well his parents call him that and so does everyone eels so it makes sense.

Pacer Fan
12-15-2011, 06:16 PM
No need to give Paul up at all when the rest of the team can be dealt, plus we have every draft pick available. Just not needed.

Rush, 2012 1st, 2012 2nd, 2014 1st for EJ
Throw Price in there if they'ed like!

Hornets Trade Kaman to Houston for another 1st.

Hornets would be sick at the draft show....wow!

Owner would get to play for sure.

Get it done Larry!

Gamble1
12-15-2011, 06:37 PM
Never said he wasn't a good player, he's really good.

However, he's not a game changer. He's another second tier wing Ala Granger, Gay, Johnson... he's desirable right now because he hasn't had his payday yet. That day is about to come. If he gets the Max like people keep saying he will, its Joe Johnson all over again.

He'd be a nice addition, but not worth trading George (or hibbert for that matter). Also not worth a Max contract. I also think its 95% likely he stays with the hornets... who likely overpay, because what else are they gonna do?
Joe Johnson second contract wasn't crazy it was is his 3rd that everyone was calling stupid. Ej's progression is better than that of Joe Johnson IMo and who knows if EJ will be a game changer or not. I personally have a lot of doubts on whether Paul George can be a game changer offensively speaking. He certainly didn't show it in college and he hasn't really blown people away as a scorer in the NBA. He's young and could grow into that but the NBA is filled with guys who didn't reach their potential.

OlBlu
12-15-2011, 06:47 PM
No, but I would trade Danny Granger for him....

P_George
12-15-2011, 06:52 PM
The EJ love here is ridiculous. He's local and went to IU --- great --- I'm a huge IU basketball fan. EJ's not the defender PG is RIGHT NOW and cannot defend the variety of players that PG can right now(he can guard 1-4). Yes, EJ's a tremendous offensive player and isn't terrible on defense, but -- PG has the potential to be tremendous on both ends of the floor and capable of scoring inside and outside.

No way in bloody hell do you make this trade.

BlueNGold
12-15-2011, 07:08 PM
I said no but it wasn't an easy call. Eric is like Monta Ellis, but without the attitude. A great scorer and undersized, but it doesn't matter. He's going to get his points and would be helpful on a contender.

The bottom line is we don't know how good Paul George is going to be so choosing against that trade is betting on Paul's potential. I would bet Paul turns out to be a better overall player and the fact defense wins championships has a lot to do with my opinion.

Kemo
12-15-2011, 07:22 PM
Alot of you are gonna look real stupid when Paul tears it up this year and we go deep into the playoffs..

doctor-h
12-15-2011, 07:26 PM
You would be giving up on a guy who has a chance to become a superstar. EJ will be very good but he cannot change the game the way PG might. Give George a chance, he has only played 1 year and half of that was with a coach who had no faith in young players. That was wasted time for development. Don't do this, lets stop talking about it and please do not overpay for Gordon next year.

Sookie
12-15-2011, 07:28 PM
Not right now.

Ask me again next season. (In general though, I like 6'10 SGs better than 6'3 SGs)

BRushWithDeath
12-15-2011, 07:34 PM
Wow. You people are crazy.

George may end up being better than Goron but the odds are pretty astronomical.

Pacer Fan
12-15-2011, 07:35 PM
If you ask this question on a national level, the vote would be "yes" to due the trade. But, I think we Pacers fans want to truely see our gem develope. I mean, when was the last time we had a draft choice that signals so much potential? We can't send our Paul somewhere else and take a chance on not having the next Kobe-ish. We have to see what his improvement is this year and then we will know more where his ceiling may be. JMO

Scot Pollard
12-15-2011, 07:40 PM
I really want EJ, but not for Paul. Absolutely not.

Winner
12-15-2011, 07:42 PM
If you ask this question on a national level, the vote would be "yes" to due the trade. But, I think we Pacers fans want to truely see our gem develope. I mean, when was the last time we had a draft choice that signals so much potential? We can't send our Paul somewhere else and take a chance on not having the next Kobe-ish. We have to see what his improvement is this year and then we will know more where his ceiling may be. JMO

Danny Granger, which wasn't so long ago.

imawhat
12-15-2011, 07:50 PM
I see Eric play more than any player not on the Pacers.

He's a very good defender, very underrated. He was probably the 2nd or 3rd best defender on our '10 World Basketball team. His defense last season wasn't his best, but he can almost lockdown on the perimeter.

He's also a very good offensive player and plays very well within a system. He can also create his own shot, drive, pass, whatever you want him to do.

Outside of rebounding, he's one of the most solid all-around basketball players in the NBA. At this point it shouldn't be a question. Eric Gordon is a much better basketball player than Paul George....two years from now, I don't know.

I'm hung up on Paul George's potential and his ability to create nightly mismatches, whereas Eric's actually delivering every night. Tough call.

Pacer Fan
12-15-2011, 07:56 PM
Danny Granger, which wasn't so long ago.

I never thought he would be anymore then he is, so to me he doesn't fit the critera. But, I guess he could for some. I see Paul having the possibilty of being one of the elites, I never ever thought that of Danny or I wouldn't make the comment I did.

Eleazar
12-15-2011, 07:58 PM
There are two reasons to say no. Paul's potential is huge, and Gordon has had injury problems.

mattie
12-15-2011, 08:15 PM
I get both sides of the debate on this issue, but for minor reasons both irritate me.

For one I get the people who say we only want EJ because he's from Indiana and IU. Sure. That's why he's hyped I get it. With that said, he is absolutely a complete player at shooting guard. Other than Wade and Ginobili he's arguably the third best 2 guard in the league.

It's really frustrating to hear people compare him to people like Ben Gordon and Monta Ellis. I don't see how people don't see the big difference between quality scorers, and people who have been given the green light to chuck up shots at an inefficient rate.

TS% and eFG% are very effective at illustrating the difference between the two types of scorers. While there is nothing EJ does particular elite, (he's not lights out athletic, he's not an elite shooter) he's physically built which means despite being a little short, no way he ever gets abused at the position, he's a knockdown shooter though he'll never be compared to elite shooters Ray Allen etc, and he can create his own shot.

We wouldn't hear non-stop threads about EJ coming to Indy if he wasn't from here, but at the same time almost all fans would say they'd want him here if the topic was brought up. EJ is good. Period.

His only real draw back is as some has said is his injury history.

With that said, it's annoying to see almost no loyalty from Pacers fans. Why would Paul George EVER be mentioned in trade threads? Sure given the right offer we'd probably want a trade involving him to happen. But I don't ever want him to be traded. I love our team right now.

And finally, as has been said many times, the Pacers will never truly compete unless we can get a superstar right? Whether it's stupid to think PG could ever be that guy or not, he does have the potential no matter how great or little that potential is- I think it's insane to trade PG unless it's for a truly elite player. Absolutely insane. We need PG to be great in order for the Pacers to truly be great. If he isn't great? Eh so bit it. Either way, let's go with potential and if it doesn't work out than we can go another route.

Pacer Fan
12-15-2011, 08:33 PM
Wow. You people are crazy.

George may end up being better than Goron but the odds are pretty astronomical.

I'll take astronomical for 66+ more games. ty

Scot Pollard
12-15-2011, 08:57 PM
People are so bitter it's ridiculous. I don't get it. I almost feel like I have to debate this team with fans of another team sometimes.

I like EJ and he'll be a hell of a player, but I feel like Paul will be better. That's definitely not an outrageous scenario.

I know it's hard to believe, but people need to look outside the box for a change.

We're a good team and Paul is looking like a rising star.

Let's get the season started so we can base the players on how they are NOW than last season. It's getting annoying.

v_d_g
12-15-2011, 09:02 PM
Wow. You people are crazy.

George may end up being better than Goron but the odds are pretty astronomical.

It's incredible, isn't it? The people here are delusional. You have the SECOND BEST 2 guard in the league, someone who can shoot lights out, get his own shot, draw fouls at an above average rate, run a fine pick and roll, and handle, almost, like a point guard.

Then you have the athletic defensive wiz. Not like there haven't been any number of other athletic guys that can guard the ball but have NO TOUCH.

Gordon shots better from 3 range than George does from 15 feet.

Of course, HERE, George is the valued commodity; when any team in the league (except maybe the Heat and Lakers) would gladly plug Gordon into their 2 spot.

Pacersdigest: where taking charges is held above actually having some SKILL

pezasied182
12-15-2011, 09:06 PM
For one I get the people who say we only want EJ because he's from Indiana and IU. Sure. That's why he's hyped I get it. With that said, he is absolutely a complete player at shooting guard. Other than Wade and Ginobili he's arguably the third best 2 guard in the league.


You forgot Kobe, or at least I hope you forgot him. And Ellis might be better as well. You could also make a case for Joe Johnson, AI, and Curry (if you consider him a sg.) Nonetheless, he's definitely still at least a top 10 sg and really good.

pezasied182
12-15-2011, 09:07 PM
It's incredible, isn't it? The people here are delusional. You have the SECOND BEST 2 guard in the league, someone who can shoot lights out, get his own shot, draw fouls at an above average rate, run a fine pick and roll, and handle, almost, like a point guard.

Then you have the athletic defensive wiz. Not like there haven't been any number of other athletic guys that can guard the ball but have NO TOUCH.

Gordon shots better from 3 range than George does from 15 feet.

Of course, HERE, George is the valued commodity; when any team in the league (except maybe the Heat and Lakers) would gladly plug Gordon into their 2 spot.

Pacersdigest: where taking charges is held above actually having some SKILL

No way is gordon the second best sg in the league, no chance.

Scot Pollard
12-15-2011, 09:12 PM
I don't even know what to say....

Calling us delusional for not judging someone based on their rookie year?

I swear people on here really are delusional and love to hate on this team and the future it has. I think people are so focused on being negative and almost acting like trolls that they sound ridiculous.

It's a matter of opinion, but it's not really easy to say we'll trade him for a guy from Indianapolis. EJ is a hell of a player, but so will Paul. Probably better. Think outside the box. Stop thinking of the same old Indiana Pacers during the rebuilding process.

I'm a big EJ fan and would love to have him, but not for Paul. It's incredible how some people turn on EVERY player on this team. When you turn on Paul George, you've turned on everyone.

I don't get it. I really don't get people that. Get behind your team and this is a team to get behind.

What would you say to some Lakers fan if they said the Pacers suck and will continue to suck because they don't know about our team. Would you agree with them and get all negative about the team?

How about you shut up and wait 10 days before you continue to make it seem like our guys are the same as last season.

Who wants to give me lip about it? I'll wait....

Pacer Fan
12-15-2011, 09:13 PM
I really don't want to live thru another Alex English type regret. Last time Pacers had a legit player and the Pacers let him go pematurely.
I would love to have EJ, just not at the expense of Paul. Pick anyone else and acouple 1st rnd picks and I'm all in.

Lance George
12-15-2011, 09:13 PM
From some of the posts around here, you'd think Eric Gordon was some first-ballot Hall of Famer, rather than an injury-prone 6'3" shooting guard with good-but-far-from-great numbers, 18/3/3, and an 80-166 career record.

sportfireman
12-15-2011, 09:13 PM
No!

mattie
12-15-2011, 09:16 PM
You forgot Kobe, or at least I hope you forgot him. And Ellis might be better as well. You could also make a case for Joe Johnson, AI, and Curry (if you consider him a sg.) Nonetheless, he's definitely still at least a top 10 sg and really good.

Oops did forget Kobe- But not Monta Ellis. He's another inefficient scorer with **** poor defense as well.

Joe Johnson is way overpaid and is one more highly inefficient scorer. That's what I'm talking about. While it is hard to tell what some stats are telling us (if anything) TS% and eFG% are very clear- they point out who is scoring well, and who is just chucking up shots. (or who is aggressive, getting to the line and getting free points)

Curry is a PG.

Also, it's essentially a moot point that EJ is undersized. While at 6'3" we'd consider that a little short, like Wade, he's a physical player with good foot work. He'll never get over powered by two guards, and only the most explosive two guards will beat him off the dribble. (that's a short list-Kobe/Wade). He's a good defender. He's an all around player. I keep reiterating this point, because while I agree it's absurd to trade PG for EJ, I don't like lumping EJ in with the vast majority of flawed two guards in the league. While he is not elite, he's a complete two guard, offering everything you want at the position.

Banta
12-15-2011, 10:56 PM
This absurd obsession with Eric Gordon is nearly the ruination of this forum. For God's sake please stop talking about trading for him and/or him joining this team.

The Pacers are a team on the rise and its an exciting time to be a fan. Try to enjoy what is unfolding in front of you and quit with the incessant wet-dreams about Gordon.

Trader Joe
12-15-2011, 11:15 PM
Paul George better than Eric Gordon? We can only hope and pray cause right now, it ain't even close.

Eleazar
12-15-2011, 11:17 PM
This absurd obsession with Eric Gordon is nearly the ruination of this forum. For God's sake please stop talking about trading for him and/or him joining this team.

The Pacers are a team on the rise and its an exciting time to be a fan. Try to enjoy what is unfolding in front of you and quit with the incessant wet-dreams about Gordon.

Why is it a bad idea to try and get Gordon? He is a good player who is capable of score 20+ ppg and play good defense at the same time. Adding him would not be a bad thing. Do we have a preference for him since he is from Indiana sure, but it isn't like we are talking about Jared Jefferies or anything. Should we trade George for him no, but people want him here for good reason.

Psyren
12-15-2011, 11:17 PM
It's incredible, isn't it? The people here are delusional. You have the SECOND BEST 2 guard in the league, someone who can shoot lights out, get his own shot, draw fouls at an above average rate, run a fine pick and roll, and handle, almost, like a point guard.

Then you have the athletic defensive wiz. Not like there haven't been any number of other athletic guys that can guard the ball but have NO TOUCH.

Gordon shots better from 3 range than George does from 15 feet.

Of course, HERE, George is the valued commodity; when any team in the league (except maybe the Heat and Lakers) would gladly plug Gordon into their 2 spot.

Pacersdigest: where taking charges is held above actually having some SKILL

What?

Eric Gordon is the 2nd best 2 guard in the league? :rolleyes:

So wait.

Let's start off with 2 guys.

1. Kobe
2. Dwayne Wade

Which one of those guys is EJ better than?

PacerGuy
12-15-2011, 11:19 PM
Not right now.

Ask me again next season. (In general though, I like 6'10 SGs better than 6'3 SGs)

THIS!

I want EJ, badly, but I want to see rd. 2 og P.George before I pull that trigger. Hell, he is only 1 summer growth spurt of being what we were told to dream J.Bender would be (see K.Durant).

Trader Joe
12-15-2011, 11:21 PM
THIS!

I want EJ, badly, but I want to see rd. 2 og P.George before I pull that trigger. Hell, he is only 1 summer growth spurt of being what we were told to dream J.Bender would be (see K.Durant).

:laugh:

PacerGuy
12-15-2011, 11:24 PM
:laugh:

Yes, that WAS a joke.
While I do NOT expect P.George to keep growing, I DO expect him to be much better. I want to see how much. I want to get a feel for his celing. Can anyone here say ther have a really good idea on what that is/ could be?

Banta
12-15-2011, 11:35 PM
Why is it a bad idea to try and get Gordon? .

I never said it was. Reading is FUNdamental.

But the Pacers aren't going after him and no one posting here at PD either works in the FO or has any pull in the FO, so the incessant posts and threads about the glorious EJ get very, very old.

jeffg-body
12-16-2011, 12:59 AM
No way in hell would I offer George now. I would however offer Granger and Rush straight up for EJ.

Infinite MAN_force
12-16-2011, 03:13 AM
Wow. You people are crazy.

George may end up being better than Goron but the odds are pretty astronomical.

I get that Gordon is a far superior player right now, but astronomical? That's a bit of a stretch eh?

What team EVER gives up on a rookie with the kind of potential that Paul George has that quickly? Especially a rookie that has already turned that potential into tangible results on the court. In the playoffs no less, and on the defensive end.

Sky's the limit with George, and EJ is about to be overpaid. Hardly a ridiculous call.

Infinite MAN_force
12-16-2011, 03:16 AM
Why is it a bad idea to try and get Gordon?

Its not a bad idea, its just not realistic.

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 03:26 AM
From some of the posts around here, you'd think Eric Gordon was some first-ballot Hall of Famer, rather than an injury-prone 6'3" shooting guard with good-but-far-from-great numbers, 18/3/3, and an 80-166 career record.

so what now EJ is a coach??

Wonder what Dunleavy, Granger,Murphy career "win loss record" is


If outsiders read this board they would think PG24 is an all star player already. Yes he has all star talent and very well could be an all star soon. But EJ is the better player now and he is still growing as a player he has not reached his full potential and with his work ethic he will add things to his game each year. He had a great off season and I expect him to have a breakout year. No one thinks EJ is a HOFer get that hyperbole out of here.

Fact is even if we offered PG24 The Hornets would turn it down.


And for all the people who say "I'll wait till next year before I decide". In this business it is hard to do that. Some players have potential like Paul or a Derrick Favors and there value will be it's highest around this time because they showed flashes of greatness. But then fizzle out and be a bust and they have no value. Not saying this will happen with Paul in fact I think it wont because he has a good work ethic. But im sure if the roles were switched EJ was a Pacer last year and Paul was a Clipper and put up 22pts and a few assists while playing great defense and scoring in the context of the offense. Im sure many people would refuse to trade him to the Clippers for Paul George who just averaged 8. I dont think many posters would be excited and want to do that. Infact i think people would be outraged. This is coming from a guy who has watched all of both players games last season and previous seasons for Eric. JMO I think they have similar upsides I feel they both have superstar potential Eric IMO is already a top 5 SG and in a few years will be the best JMO. Paul IMO has the poential to be a top 5 player at his position as well but he isn't already and for that reason I prefer Gordon he is the much safer option. But for me this is very close I feel in love with Paul George's game watching him at Fresno loved his mentality he had EJ's killer mentality in college but I have yet to see it in the NBA. I think he will be a great player as well. If I see his jumper from his sophomore year at Fresno and the scoring mentality from that year as well in the near future that is a good sign for us have yet to see it this year will be a huge year IMO in finding out what Paul will be 5 years from now.

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 03:30 AM
Its not a bad idea, its just not realistic.

Actually bill plaschke Clippers writer for the LA Times said today on Around the Horn EJ had no intention in staying in Clipper land and said it is less likely he stays in NO. I find it hard to believe but I found it interesting he said that. His Clipper articles have been pretty good over the past few years since EJ has been there and he has done several 1v1 interviews with EJ.

He also said in march this

http://www.clipsnation.com/2011/3/5/2031913/bill-plaschke-this-on-petros-and-money-on-friday-eric-gordon-is-an

Bill Plaschke said this on Petros and Money on friday. "Eric Gordon is an east coast guy I don't think he will resign with the Clippers, his dad wants him to be a star on the east coast."

Iv heard that same thing from a few people who are close to EJ one said he wanted to be a Pacer the other said he wanted to be a Bull as the Pacers and Bucks as backups(His mom told me she wanted him to be a Bull as well and that pissed me off lol. Im pretty sure it isnt BS I think EJ wants to play in the midwest JMO from people I have talked to.


I get that Gordon is a far superior player right now, but astronomical? That's a bit of a stretch eh?

What team EVER gives up on a rookie with the kind of potential that Paul George has that quickly? Especially a rookie that has already turned that potential into tangible results on the court. In the playoffs no less, and on the defensive end.

Sky's the limit with George, and EJ is about to be overpaid. Hardly a ridiculous call.


If George didn't play for the Pacers I dont think you would be saying that JMO. You probably would of looked at his stats and his game and said he needs tons of work and is very unpolished and wont be any more than a Trevor Ariza JMO. There are plenty of guys with Paul's talent that busts and plenty people in other markets never even watch. I bet most Kings fans or just west coast fans dont see Paul George the same way we do. Infact some probably dont even know who PG24 is. Just like many people here dont view a guy like EJ like the people on the west coast just not enough exposure.


The sky is the limit for both EJ and PG24 BTW IMO of course. But Paul has to climb Everest while EJ is already 3/4 of the way up it.


Just a different perspective maybe to think about.

Infinite MAN_force
12-16-2011, 03:37 AM
Fact is even if we offered PG24 The Hornets would turn it down.




This is most likely true. Its the best evidence to why this whole scenario is ridiculous in my opinion.

Its just a deal that doesn't make sense.

It makes the most sense for the Pacers to see what they have right now, and putting together the kind of deal it would take to get EJ is going to cost more than its worth. There is no conceivable need for us to do it right now.

NugzFan
12-16-2011, 04:02 AM
sorry guys, but you have no idea how silly this poll looks outside of indiana.

3 8 thee great t h
12-16-2011, 04:24 AM
Smh on some of the posts on here... U would trade pg because ej is the better player right now makes zero sense.

Ok let's look at it this way...the NBA is very similar to other things in life, quite simply exactly like the stock market. Every NBA player is a stock ok. Now imagine u have ej Inc and pg co. Ok

EJ Inc- has had a lot of success in it's few years in business and still has some if not a lot of room to expand but over the past three years it has shown it's fair show of low marketability (injury) and hasn't been able to have a chance to compete against other similar business types (playoffs)

Now....

PG Co- one of the newest businesses that Fortune 500 magazine has circled as a stock on the rise with unlimited profitability. During the toughest time of the fiscal year actually stood up well against the toughest business owner on it's coast (d rose and the number one seeded bulls) unsure how for it can go but seems to be a stock u hold on to and will pan out

Ok your a stock broker where do u invest ur money? Ur an investment banker which business do u buy?

Eleazar
12-16-2011, 04:25 AM
sorry guys, but you have no idea how silly this poll looks outside of indiana.

I'm sure every team could come up with a trade scenario that most of their fans would say no to, but looks silly to everyone else. If you don't watch that team all of the time you don't see the same things as everyone else.

3 8 thee great t h
12-16-2011, 04:31 AM
But FYI I would not trade one for the other if I'm no I'm trying to get paul if I'm Indy I'm trying to get ej to play alongside one another then tell me about potential dc ej pg west and hibbert would be yes I'm going to take it there the best starting five we've ever had! And what if lance and Hans show progress and take west and dc spots that's an all star caliber NBA contending team!


I would if I was Larry try to and it hurts because dg is my second fave player behind Kobe and also b Roy was tied with Kobe too but I would give them Danny lance and a first. It would work tho because they have aminu and ariza so maybe hill lance and two firsts idk

xBulletproof
12-16-2011, 04:31 AM
sorry guys, but you have no idea how silly this poll looks outside of indiana.

I understand that, and I don't care. They haven't seen him play like we have. I've seen him block Amare Stoudemire at the rim on back to back shots, and then on the flip side watched him cause Derrick Rose to struggle in the playoffs. Defensively he's already there, holding opposing shooting guards to 42% eFG%. That's not FG% mind you, but eFG% where a bonus is given for any 3 point shots made. It's just a matter of getting more aggressive and getting shots to fall on offense. I've seen nothing to even imply that won't happen.

I have a feeling when this season is over, people will understand.

Kemo
12-16-2011, 06:04 AM
I don't even know what to say....

Calling us delusional for not judging someone based on their rookie year?

I swear people on here really are delusional and love to hate on this team and the future it has. I think people are so focused on being negative and almost acting like trolls that they sound ridiculous.

It's a matter of opinion, but it's not really easy to say we'll trade him for a guy from Indianapolis. EJ is a hell of a player, but so will Paul. Probably better. Think outside the box. Stop thinking of the same old Indiana Pacers during the rebuilding process.

I'm a big EJ fan and would love to have him, but not for Paul. It's incredible how some people turn on EVERY player on this team. When you turn on Paul George, you've turned on everyone.

I don't get it. I really don't get people that. Get behind your team and this is a team to get behind.

What would you say to some Lakers fan if they said the Pacers suck and will continue to suck because they don't know about our team. Would you agree with them and get all negative about the team?

How about you shut up and wait 10 days before you continue to make it seem like our guys are the same as last season.

Who wants to give me lip about it? I'll wait....



+ 1 million ...

I have been preaching this as well, but seemed it was falling on deaf ears.
Good to know another person sees this too..


http://media.fakeposters.com/results/2010/09/22/ppncq9sy31.gif
.

BRushWithDeath
12-16-2011, 09:46 AM
I get that Gordon is a far superior player right now, but astronomical? That's a bit of a stretch eh?

What team EVER gives up on a rookie with the kind of potential that Paul George has that quickly? Especially a rookie that has already turned that potential into tangible results on the court. In the playoffs no less, and on the defensive end.

Sky's the limit with George, and EJ is about to be overpaid. Hardly a ridiculous call.

It isn't a hardly a ridiculous call. It's an entirely ridiculous call. Paul George has potential. Maybe even a ton of it. But the notion that anyone wouldn't trade him for Eric Gordon is absolutely absurd.

It wouldn't happen because the Hornets, even the Stu Jackson led Hornets, would hang up the minute the offer was on the table but if Larry Bird could get EJ for PG straight up he would do it immediately.

You say he's already turned some of that enormous potential into tangible results but the fact is, outside of some pretty good defense in the playoffs (which is greatly overstated on this board), he was mostly average last year. He was flat out bad far more often than he was good.

Offensively, he's not even on the same planet as Gordon. He was an awful shooter last year. For all the talk of how pretty his stroke was, it didn't often go in. His ball handling wasn't good at all for a guard. He was basically Brandon Rush without the three point stroke last year. That's not a good thing. He should improve both of those extremely important attributes. He should get better across the board. But he'll never catch Gordon offensively and he'll probably never get close.

Defensively, Paul could be an elite talent. His length will always cause guards problems. He absolutely blocks an inordinate amount of shots for a guard. Hell, he may even approach Dwyane Wade in that category one day. But it's not like EJ is a bad defender. Quite the opposite actually. He's a guy you can put on the other team's best backcourt player every night while still getting you 20+ on the other end.

Right now, there is no comparison between the two. EJ is unquestionably in the top 3 SGs in the league. He'll catch up to Kobe Bryant in a few years as he regresses due to age and EJ continues to improve. By the time that Wade begins falling, EJ will likely be the best at the position in the league.

Paul will certainly keep getting better. He's got tons of potential. But EJ will keep getting better too. Hell, EJ is only a little over a year older the PG. pacer4ever's Everest analogy was perfect. PG is sitting at base camp along with countless other NBA 2 guards. He's got an entire mountain to climb. The odds are better that he gets stuck midway up with the likes of Trevor Ariza and Travis Outlaw than that he reaches the summit. Gordon is already near the top. It's possible that the 1 year younger George eventually reaches his level but the chances are extremely remote.

The most infuriating thing about this discussion? The notion that the only reason people want Eric Gordon is because of his Indiana ties. I could not care any less about something than where a player is from or where he went to school. If EJ was a California kid who went Kentucky, nobody would want him any less. If he wouldn't have backed out on his Illinois commitment and gone to IU, only the IU fanatics wouldn't want him and even most of them would get passed it.

Eric Gordon probably won't be an All-Star this year because the NBA Hornets of New Orleans are going to be awful. That team is a dumpster fire. But he'll be very, very good. He'll be far better than Paul George. And there is absolutely no logical reason to think that will change anytime soon.

Eric Gordon will be 23 years old on Christmas. He's already a near All-Star. Paul George will be 22 in May. He's not even close to an All-Star. And you people wouldn't trade them straight up? That is insanity.

I understand people really like Paul George. I really like Paul George. I hope he turns into a really good player. But he's got a long, long way to go. I hope he turns into the prime Tracy McGrady that you guys say is possible. I think it's more likely that he turns into a somewhat better version of Trevor Ariza. That is not a bad thing. But it's also not better than Eric Gordon. Not even close.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 09:59 AM
I really hope Paul doesn't become the next Pacer that everyone suddenly starts inexplicably hating because he doesn't live up to the absurd expectations being placed on him, that would be a real shame.

If we went back in time to when Brandon Rush had a couple high scoring games at the end of the season a couple years ago, I'd bet we would see similar comments about him on this board, and now look, most of you would run Rush out of town on the next train.

Smits Happens
12-16-2011, 10:07 AM
I thought BRushWithDeath summed it up perfectly. I'm very high on PG. I hope he becomes a superstar. I'd be thrilled if he became as good as EJ. But I'll take the guy who already is EJ 10 times out of 10.

Pacer Fan
12-16-2011, 10:32 AM
sorry guys, but you have no idea how silly this poll looks outside of indiana.

As I said earlier, I understand what it must look like outside of pacers fans. How many pacers games has the nuggets fan watched tho. Does the nation know who Paul is, let alone his abilities. I know, that's all that matters. How many people thought kobe would be what he is. I did. That's all that mattered.

PaulGeorge24
12-16-2011, 10:40 AM
Gordon is better offensively RIGHT NOW, but George already is a way better defender, rebounder and shotblocker. His length, developing body, elite athleticism, (lateral) quickness and ability to read passing lanes will allow him to guard multiple positions and be a serious mismatch on offense. Guy has all-star written all over him.

That, along with the potential George has on offense, is way too valuable to give up. Kid was a rookie last year. He's still growing, adding muscle and getting a feel for the NBA game.

George was an elite offensive player at Fresno who shot 91% from the FT line on 5 attempts, hit two threes per game and put up good defensive numbers. His passing game is also underrated. Once he shows that off as well, he'll be known as the complete package. A star.


PS: And he'll also win a slam dunk contest in his career ;)!

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 10:43 AM
I wonder if some of you have watched Gordon play defense.

PaulGeorge24
12-16-2011, 10:53 AM
I wonder if some of you have watched Gordon play defense.


He's a decent on the ball defender.

Not a good help side defender. Poor defensive rebounder, probably the worst among shooting guards. Not the shotblocker that George is. Doesn't have the size to defend bigger players in the post.

Paul, once his body is fully developed, will be able to guard bigger players in the post.

PacerGuy
12-16-2011, 11:01 AM
Fact is even if we offered PG24 The Hornets would turn it down.

And for all the people who say "I'll wait till next year before I decide". In this business it is hard to do that. Some players have potential like Paul or a Derrick Favors and there value will be it's highest around this time because they showed flashes of greatness.

JMO I think they have similar upsides I feel they both have superstar potential Eric IMO is already a top 5 SG and in a few years will be the best JMO. Paul IMO has the poential to be a top 5 player at his position as well but he isn't already and for that reason I prefer Gordon he is the much safer option.

1). Yes, but it is a conversation starter for sure. In the end, it might be the best young prospect they are offered (but they won't be offered him IMO).

2). True, but how many times is talent given up on too soon. You are talking about a very young kid who is still growing for cripes sake (figuratively & litterly!) who I can not honestly tell you how good he can be. Everyone who watches this kid sees something special. Everyone. Also, do you see P.George's upside as a SG or a SF? Who do you see playing together as a better fit in the next 3-5 yrs: PG/EJ or DG/EJ? If the answer is Paul, then you do not offer him for EJ, you do everything in your power to pair him w/ EJ.

3). Again, what is his position? If it is SF & not SG, then you pair him w/ a top 5 SG (EJ) & you sit back & enjoy the show! IMO his growth spurt has helped TPTB to realize that SF is in his future, just not while we have Danny.

Not sure what the Pacers could/would offer for EJ outside of P.George, but I offer anyoue other then George & Hibbert (I am a believer that 7'2" players take time, & Roy can be a special player in a few yrs - ala, but even better then R.Smits). I would use our cap space & future picks + youth &/or Danny to get a deal done. I do not see such a deal during the season, not in the next off-season a EJ deal will likely happen, & I just hope it is w/ us & NOT involving P.George!

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 11:01 AM
Gordon is a heck of a lot better than decent when it comes to on the ball defense.

If your shooting guard is having to defend people in the post you are in deep ****. Also Gordon is one of the most physically developed guards in the NBA and has been since high school. I don't care how tall he is, his athleticism and wide shoulders makes him very hard to push around. It's why he has always been such a fantastic finisher around the rim.

Right now, Gordon is superior to Paul on both ends of the court. It is possible that Paul will surpass him defensively due to his length, but it is highly unlikely Paul will ever pass him on offense.

PaulGeorge24
12-16-2011, 11:06 AM
Gordon is a heck of a lot better than decent when it comes to on the ball defense.

If your shooting guard is having to defend people in the post you are in deep ****. Also Gordon is one of the most physically developed guards in the NBA and has been since high school. I don't care how tall he is, his athleticism and wide shoulders makes him very hard to push around. It's why he has always been such a fantastic finisher around the rim.

Right now, Gordon is superior to Paul on both ends of the court. It is possible that Paul will surpass him defensively due to his length, but it is highly unlikely Paul will ever pass him on offense.

Take it easy. :laugh: You're right about Gordon being better than decent on the ball.

I never said he HAS to defend people in the post. I'm comparing Paul George to Eric Gordon and some of the things our multifunctional Paul should be able to do.

I guess we will see how things play out. I would not give up George for Gordon and I'm looking forward to watching Paul develop into the player I'm envisioning him to be.

Sollozzo
12-16-2011, 11:09 AM
Maximum ceiling?? you gotta be kidding me.... no PG's maximum ceiling is that of an elite star in this league...
Gordon probably isn't gonna get much better than he already is.. a little bit , sure... but not a lot


PG could be as good as Lebron!

Elite superstar? Come on. How many elite superstars are there in this league right now? An elite superstar is basically a top 10 or so player. It's Lebron, Kobe, Dirk, Wade, CP3, Dwight, Durant, Rose, etc. You are honestly saying that Paul George has a realistic shot at being as good as the above mentioned players? Come on, let's be realistic here. I like PG *A LOT*, but some of the expectations of him on this forum just make me shake my head.

Gordon is a much better player right now and is almost the same age. This would be a no-brainer in Gordon's favor on any other NBA forum. The results of this poll are homerism to the max, IMHO.

Do you all realize how good PG would be if he were as good as Eric Gordon?

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 11:43 AM
I wonder if some of you have watched Gordon play defense.

I wonder if some of them have watched Gordon play outside of the two games with Indy per year.

BRushWithDeath
12-16-2011, 12:26 PM
I wonder if some of them have watched Gordon play outside of the two games with Indy per year.

I wonder if most have even seen those.

Sandman21
12-16-2011, 12:47 PM
The results of this poll are homerism to the max, IMHO.
I don't think its homerism when why should we trade PG for EJ when we can wait a season and have BOTH. I honestly don't see EJ sticking around in NOLA once he becomes an UFA, and we'll have the inside track for him.

xBulletproof
12-16-2011, 01:18 PM
once he becomes an UFA, and we'll have the inside track for him.

So in 6 years, we're all over it then.

Since86
12-16-2011, 01:20 PM
So in 6 years, we're all over it then.

You don't think he's going to take the same exact route as most players and just ask for a trade?

Trophy
12-16-2011, 01:25 PM
I like EJ's game a lot. A solid 2 who can create for himself and others, plays above his height when defending taller 2's and PGs.

It's not like we'd be getting nothing out of the deal. EJ has proven to be a top SG and he's still improving. He's a good teammate and can create nice chemistry. He's not a demanding guard who needs the ball at all times.

Don't think I'd want EJ because he's from Indy. I want him because he's nearly star level right now. He's one of the most underrated players in the league.

Don't get me wrong, I think Paul will become a very good player and a possible star who I look forward to seeing, but EJ has proven he is one. Even in his rookie year.

So if I had to make this trade right at this moment, I would.

Sandman21
12-16-2011, 01:25 PM
So in 6 years, we're all over it then.

I don't see him staying beyond his RFA year (unless theres been an extension I'm not aware of.) If he were still in LA, I'd be less skeptical, but I do not see him staying in NOLA once he becomes an UFA.

xBulletproof
12-16-2011, 01:25 PM
You don't think he's going to take the same exact route as most players and just ask for a trade?

If you've noticed, all those guys were about to be unrestricted. Gordon has another 6 years for that.

Since86
12-16-2011, 01:29 PM
If you've noticed, all those guys were about to be unrestricted. Gordon has another 6 years for that.

So? It's not going to change. Players who demand trades, regardless of where they fall in their contracts, are usually traded.

You might not think it's likely, but at the end of the day it's still an option you can't just dismiss.

BRushWithDeath
12-16-2011, 01:30 PM
If you've noticed, all those guys were about to be unrestricted. Gordon has another 6 years for that.

I cannot think of one single star or even borderline star who didn't re-up with his team following his rookie deal.

There's too much incentive. Gordon will re-sign in New Orleans. He won't really have a choice.

The only way the Pacers have a shot at him within the next 6 years is via trade.

xBulletproof
12-16-2011, 01:30 PM
I don't see him staying beyond his RFA year (unless theres been an extension I'm not aware of.) If he were still in LA, I'd be less skeptical, but I do not see him staying in NOLA once he becomes an UFA.

RFA year? What is an RFA year? He's going to be restricted. Whatever he signs they will match. He won't take the qualifying offer and be a UFA after next year. It won't happen.

I really wonder if some of you understand what he has to give up, or what has to happen for him to be a UFA anytime soon.

aaronb
12-16-2011, 01:34 PM
I like EJ's game a lot. A solid 2 who can create for himself and others, plays above his height when defending taller 2's and PGs.

It's not like we'd be getting nothing out of the deal. EJ has proven to be a top SG and he's still improving. He's a good teammate and can create nice chemistry. He's not a demanding guard who needs the ball at all times.

Don't think I'd want EJ because he's from Indy. I want him because he's nearly star level right now. He's one of the most underrated players in the league.

Don't get me wrong, I think Paul will become a very good player and a possible star who I look forward to seeing, but EJ has proven he is one. Even in his rookie year.

So if I had to make this trade right at this moment, I would.


As would I

RWB
12-16-2011, 01:38 PM
I really wonder if some of you understand what he has to give up, or what has to happen for him to be a UFA anytime soon.

Trick question I guess? Wait until 13/14 season and sign a shorter contract?

spazzxb
12-16-2011, 02:06 PM
I thought BRushWithDeath summed it up perfectly. I'm very high on PG. I hope he becomes a superstar. I'd be thrilled if he became as good as EJ. But I'll take the guy who already is EJ 10 times out of 10.

Pg is 6'10. His ceiling is more like Durante than gordan(the most overhyped pd player ever.

aaronb
12-16-2011, 02:15 PM
Pg is 6'10. His ceiling is more like Durante than gordan(the most overhyped pd player ever.


He's comparable to Durant in that both guys receive a paycheck for playing basketball.

Kevin Durant was winning scoring titles in the NBA at an age when Paul George was scoring 15 PPG and shooting 41% for a .500 bad mid major college team.

Paul George is an intriguing athlete. He seems like a good bet to be a solid defending 3 going forward.

That being said a better career comp for Paul George is Derrick McKey. An exciting athlete who just doesn't have the natural aggressiveness or personality to be the offensive force that people hope he can be.

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 02:17 PM
Pg is 6'10. His ceiling is more like Durante than gordan(the most overhyped pd player ever.

Durant at 19 was already averaging 20ppg in the NBA. PG at 19 didn't even score 17ppg on 42% shooting in the WAC. No shot PG ever becomes as good of scorer as Durant absolutely zero. Durant is a very rare player who is a once in a generation type talent in terms of how good he is at scoring the basketball.

If PG has Durant type upside that would be like saying Eric would have better than Dwade type upside. That would be like saying Eric Gordon has Jordan type upside :laugh:

Im really done with the discussion the homer-ism is unbelievable.

Gamble1
12-16-2011, 02:23 PM
Durant at 19 was already averaging 20ppg in the NBA. PG at 19 didn't even score 17ppg on 42% shooting in the WAC. No shot PG ever becomes as good of scorer as Durant absolutely zero. Durant is a very rare player who is a once in a generation type talent in terms of how good he is at scoring the basketball.

If PG has Durant type upside that would be like saying Eric would have better than Dwade type upside. That would be like saying Eric Gordon has Jordan type upside :laugh:

Im really done with the discussion the homer-ism is unbelievable.
Totally agree.

I also wanted to say that I have also heard that EJ wants to be a Bull or a Pacer as well. This is coming from a family friend but like many people pointed out I am not sure how much he is willing to take a pay cut.

I hope the stories are true though because I like our chances over the Bulls considering our cap situation and young inexpensive talent.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 02:30 PM
It's going to be sad when 2 years from now we have threads that say "Will Paul George ever live up to his potential?" When in reality he'll probably be a good player that fills his role, just not the Kobe Bryant-Kevin Durant love child some are expecting.

Sollozzo
12-16-2011, 02:32 PM
To those who wouldn't trade PG for Gordon, I'm guessing you'd pick PG over Granger too? I think Granger and Gordon are pretty close in terms of what they bring to the table....

Can we please never bring up Kevin Durant in a Paul George thread again? If you are saying PG has a Durant ceiling then you are basically saying he has the ability to win like 8 scoring titles in his career. That's beyond hysterical.

Like pacer4ever said, Durant is a once in a generation type of scorer. PG will never ever ever be able to score the ball like KD can. I would say his MAX ceiling offensively is what Gordon already is. Hence why I think it's ludicrous that 75% of the board wouldn't trade him for EJ right now. EJ is already what you hope George can become. EJ's D is shamefully underrated here.

This question would get someone laughed off of any non-Pacer message board.

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 02:33 PM
Worst...idea...ever...I think maybe OP wants Bird to make this move so he can be as incompetent as he thinks he is. George is already the better defender, and can get his shot off much easier...I see Gordon as a fringe All-star, while George has the chance to be a superstar. Trading George for Gordon would be equivalent to trading Kobe after his first year for a fringe All-star guard that is "proven."

I think in the NBA potential talent can be many times more valuable then a "sure thing."

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 02:34 PM
To those who wouldn't trade PG for Gordon, I'm guessing you'd pick PG over Granger too? I think Granger and Gordon are pretty close in terms of what they bring to the table....

Can we please never bring up Kevin Durant in a Paul George thread again? If you are saying PG has a Durant ceiling then you are basically saying he has the ability to win like 8 scoring titles in his career. That's beyond hysterical.

Like pacer4ever said, Durant is a once in a generation type of scorer. PG will never ever ever be able to score the ball like KD can. I would say his MAX ceiling offensively is what Gordon already is. Hence why I think it's ludicrous that 75% of the board wouldn't trade him for EJ right now. EJ is already what you hope George can become. EJ's D is shamefully underrated here.

This question would get someone laughed off of any non-Pacer message board.

Defense wins championships. Paul George at barely 20 years old is already a better defender than EJ, and it would be fairly debatable that George is a better defender than Durant already. No one thinks George can score like Durant, but they are similar in that they are so long that their shot is almost impossible to defend.

People might think I'm crazy for thinking George may have better defense than Durant, but George is the best defender out on the wing I've ever seen the Pacers employ. Maybe Artest was close, but George proved to be one step ahead with that phenomenal effort he put forth in guarding the MVP/fastest point guard in the NBA as a rookie.

xBulletproof
12-16-2011, 02:35 PM
I think the world of Paul George, but I would do the trade. It's about the only type of trade I would do for Paul George. It would have to be a top 5 guy at their position. Gordon qualifies.

Anytime you can turn a guys potential into what you hope he becomes, you should.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 02:36 PM
RE: Defense wins championships

Eric Gordon is regarded, on a national level, as one of the best defensive shooting guards in the NBA. Seriously, his first two years in the league people liked him more for his defense than his scoring.

Sollozzo
12-16-2011, 02:36 PM
Defense wins championships



Yeah, and uh, Gordon can play defense...........

He will also likely average 20+ PPG for the next decade.

He is a better player than PG right now and it's not even close.

Gamble1
12-16-2011, 02:37 PM
Defense wins championships
When you can think of anything else to say...... Defense wins championship is everyones retort.

Offense and Defense win championships. You can't have one without the other.

Lance George
12-16-2011, 02:38 PM
Can someone present a coherent argument for why Eric Gordon will be significantly better than Ben Gordon? I'm not looking for an emotional argument, I'm looking for logic and reason, supported by factual evidence.

Their production through their first three seasons is eerily similar, yet Ben did it (a) in lesser playing time, and (b) on winning teams.

On top of the above, there's also the fact that Eric has been one of the league's most injury plagued players over the past two seasons, with 46 missed games. His "breakout" season came in a sample size of a whopping 56 games. Prior to that, he was a 16/3/3 producer in his first two seasons with an average PER.

People marvel at his defense, yet it certainly hasn't had much effect on the Clippers' win column. They've sucked in all three of his seasons, even this past season while playing next to an elite, 23/12/4 big man in Blake Griffin.

I realize the homerism is intense when it comes to Eric Gordon, and I risk being burnt at the stake for this post, but I'm just not seeing what makes Eric Gordon some elite, untouchable talent. He has potential, sure, but he looks much closer to a young Ben Gordon than a young Dwyane Wade to me.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 02:41 PM
I like how the people who are saying they would do this trade are considered homers. How insane is that? I also like how some of the Paul George supporters are acting like the majority opinion is that George should be traded for Gordon and they are putting their neck out there by suggesting otherwise. Do you guys see the current poll results? Getting burnt at the stake for saying you wouldn't trade George for Gordon? Hilarious.

Gamble1
12-16-2011, 02:55 PM
I realize the homerism is intense when it comes to Eric Gordon, and I risk being burnt at the stake for this post, but I'm just not seeing what makes Eric Gordon some elite, untouchable talent. He has potential, sure, but he looks much closer to a young Ben Gordon than a young Dwyane Wade to me.
I personally don't feel that he is a elite untouchable talent but I do think he is on par with Danny Granger and has a good chance to surpass him and thats the type of player I would like Paul George to be.

Ben Gordon is a chucker and even though you listed him as a 6'3 he's actually closer to 6'2. EJ is a little over 6'3 and a better athlete than Ben Gordon which is why people are higher on him. EJ is a better defender and he turns the ball over less than Ben did earlier in his career.

Bens a good player but EJ is a guy people can't really stop from scoring. I don't think the same can be said of Ben. Ej isn't just a jump shooter he actually gets to the basket much more than Ben and he finishes better than Ben. As a consequence EJ draws twice as many fouls as Ben and overall this is why he is a better player.

Sollozzo
12-16-2011, 03:01 PM
People marvel at his defense, yet it certainly hasn't had much effect on the Clippers' win column. They've sucked in all three of his seasons, even this past season while playing next to an elite, 23/12/4 big man in Blake Griffin.




Well I guess Blake Griffin must be crap too since they didn't win many games last year........

Gamble1
12-16-2011, 03:03 PM
Well I guess Blake Griffin must be crap too since they didn't win many games last year........
Also remember Griffen was out last year with a knee injury. People forget that the Clipps haven't had EJ Griffen Jordan the entire 3 seasons.

RWB
12-16-2011, 03:03 PM
Totally agree.

I also wanted to say that I have also heard that EJ wants to be a Bull or a Pacer as well. This is coming from a family friend but like many people pointed out I am not sure how much he is willing to take a pay cut.

I hope the stories are true though because I like our chances over the Bulls considering our cap situation and young inexpensive talent.

The Bulls will not have the money and frankly I would think EJ will get tired of hearing the Hornets are moving during the season and want out. New Orleans is a bad situation for all involved. Bird has been patient and I would think the word will get to Gordon through some back channels.

Gamble1
12-16-2011, 03:11 PM
The Bulls will not have the money and frankly I would think EJ will get tired of hearing the Hornets are moving during the season and want out. New Orleans is a bad situation for all involved. Bird has been patient and I would think the word will get to Gordon through some back channels.
I don't think they have the money but they do have the players to make it work.

Deng could be packaged with Taj Gibson and their european pick last year who will be a stud when he comes over. IS that better than say Danny and say Tyler? That depends on who you ask but overall they have enough to get something done.

Lance George
12-16-2011, 03:19 PM
6'3", 22-year-old, third-year SG Eric Gordon vs. 6'4", 23-year-old, second-year SG Marcus Thornton's stint in Sacramento:

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7493/egvsmt.gif

Yes, Thornton's production was only 27 games, but Gordon's was only 56, so both were small sample sizes. Thornton's scoring was also in-line with his career per-minute scoring, so I'm inclined to believe it was legit, whereas Gordon's was roughly 25% higher than his first two seasons, causing me to be a bit more skeptical that he truly is a low-20s-level scorer, rather than a high teens scorer.

Sookie
12-16-2011, 03:19 PM
I like how the people who are saying they would do this trade are considered homers. How insane is that? I also like how some of the Paul George supporters are acting like the majority opinion is that George should be traded for Gordon and they are putting their neck out there by suggesting otherwise. Do you guys see the current poll results? Getting burnt at the stake for saying you wouldn't trade George for Gordon? Hilarious.

I don't know what it is about George, some of it's rational some of it's irrational.

He's loaded with the P word. I hate that word. I roll my eyes at that word. The players I prefer pretty much show that I think a player who is a pretty good player now, is better to have than a player who has a shot to be fantastic in the future.

Why? Because 1 out of 100 players live up to their potential. Usually, that pretty good player ends up being better throughout his or her entire career.

Why? because when you are 18/19 and you have the talent to be a fantastic player, usually you've reached the level of "pretty good." And if you haven't, than something is missing. You aren't competitive, you lack confidence, you are just playing because you are good rather than because you love playing basketball, you're stupid, you're lack work ethic, you've had a lot of injuries etc..And odds are pretty good you won't reach it.

But Paul George is different. He's raw because he started playing basketball in high school. He seems to be an intelligent young man. He's shown he has the ability to drive to the basket. He's got a beautiful shot. He has shown he's a pretty good passer. He's shown he can hit big shots. He's incredibly athletic. He's a 6'10 guy, who defended the MVP of the league - a point guard - incredibly well.

He's the type of guy who actually does have a shot of living up to his potential.

And it's not abnormal for people to want to get to see what that is before you trade him, because he's got all the assets to be a better player than Gordon, we just don't know if he ever will. Once again, odds are pretty high he won't. But they are much better than those other guys labeled with the "potential" tag.

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 03:44 PM
Wells and Dakich talking EJ right now.


Eric played over Granger for team USA cause his great defense fact that's a good point Wells made. That really tells you all you need to know why EJ is better than Ben Gordon:laugh: Marcus Thornton is a good scorer but thats all he does. He doesn't create for others and is bad off the ball and not a good passer like EJ is EJ is a very underrated passer. He gets a lot of hockey assists. Both Ben and Marcus are worse than bad defenders.

EJ is a winner his personality is a winners personality he works his *** off and is a leader and not a guy who is a follower he will prove all you doubters wrong this season.

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 03:47 PM
RE: Defense wins championships

Eric Gordon is regarded, on a national level, as one of the best defensive shooting guards in the NBA. Seriously, his first two years in the league people liked him more for his defense than his scoring.

Really? Because I don't regard him as such. Sure against players that are close to him in size, he is a good defender. I would say overall he is a good defender. One of the best in the NBA? That's not how I would regard his defense. You can't just say "shooting guard." That is too broad. Wings always ending up having to defend other wings. Paul George has proven, as a rookie, he can guard small speedy guys, and big, long guys.

Gordon's biggest knock is he gets abused by size. I think it would be a nightmare for Gordon to have to go up against Durant or George 1 on 1 on a regular basis. The best way I've found to compare players that play the same position is who would struggle against who in a one on one? I think George's size and athleticism would be a nightmare for Gordon. So when the game is one the line in the playoffs and the intensity is at 100 percent, you know who I'd choose.

Gordon is a shooting guard in a point guards body. The one thing I noticed about him at IU is he gives hustle, but he plays below the rim. He didn't have great leaping ability at 19 and there is no way it has improved too much at 23 with the wear and tear of the NBA season on his body.

A lot of people are taking Gordon's 20 ppg and running with it. On a winning team, he should not be the main offensive option. He is not a number 1 option super star on the wing because bigger defenders can easily alter his shot when the game is on the line. It all comes down to size and athleticism. Paul George seems special because he has more raw talent than anyone drafted in the last 5 years and he is a hard worker playing for one of, if not the, best franchise for developing their young players over the last few years.

aaronb
12-16-2011, 03:47 PM
He's incredibly athletic. He's a 6'10 guy, who defended the MVP of the league - a point guard - incredibly well.




Derrick Rose DID average 27.8 PPG in the series and we got dispatched in 5 games. So lets be honest about how much George really "locked Rose down".

Did he defend him better than Darren Collision? Yes...... Can Darren Collision guard anyone better than a WNBAer? No

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 03:50 PM
Please Midcoasted, find me someone who says Eric Gordon gets abused defensively because of his size like you claim. Please.

Also, Eric Gordon playing BELOW the rim? Hilarious.

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 03:52 PM
Derrick Rose DID average 27.8 PPG in the series and we got dispatched in 5 games. So lets be honest about how much George really "locked Rose down".

Did he defend him better than Darren Collision? Yes...... Can Darren Collision guard anyone better than a WNBAer? No

He also held him to season lows in shooting percentages. You also forgot the rule change. You actually have to be in the act of shooting to get to the free throw line now. Rose earned over 10 ppg from the line because the refs were way too whistle happy if anyone even got near him. They also swallowed the whistle on several offensive fouls Rose committed so I'm not going to look at his gifts from the refs as a valid argument.

1 on 1, Paul George defended Derrick Rose better than anyone in the NBA did all of last year. And that is not a homer opinion. Several unbiased analysts would say the same thing.

Rreed10
12-16-2011, 03:54 PM
I would trade granger in a heart beat, he is the one of the only players to jack up a shot in the most ridiculous times. In his behalf he has thought he has had to because we forced him to be in the spotlight. A trade to the hornets would be a good fresh start for Danny in his home town, and ej would fit in well here.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 03:55 PM
Fact: Gordon is one of the strongest players in the NBA pound for pound. That has been one of his biggest advantages for years is how developed his body is.

Also fact, Paul George is probably one of the weakest players in the NBA pound for pound.

Gamble1
12-16-2011, 03:57 PM
Gordon is a shooting guard in a point guards body. The one thing I noticed about him at IU is he gives hustle, but he plays below the rim. He didn't have great leaping ability at 19 and there is no way it has improved too much at 23 with the wear and tear of the NBA season on his body.
You do realize that EJ has a 40 inch vertical right? Thats up there with the best and 30% of his field goal attempts are close to the basket. Thats more than Kobe.

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 03:59 PM
Please Midcoasted, fine me someone who says Eric Gordon gets abused defensively because of his size like you claim. Please.

Also, Eric Gordon playing BELOW the rim? Hilarious.

I have seen several posters say the same thing so I know for a fact I am not alone in my opinion. But that's what this all is, is opinion. I don't think anyone is basing this off of statistics. This is us watching the game and drawing conclusions from it. And sometimes that's the best way to see the biggest picture. I just get this notion that you rarely watch him play, and base what you know from what you read about him.

Eric Gordon is not very long and it is not like he has a Vince Carter vertical. But for an NBA guard making millions of dollars, I wouldn't consider his leaping ability great. I was 6 foot with a 40 inch vertical when I was 15 and I could dunk. Could I palm the ball? Hell no. But it's not like the dude plays "above the rim" like Paul George does for a fact.

pacers74
12-16-2011, 03:59 PM
Fact: Gordon is one of the strongest players in the NBA pound for pound. That has been one of his biggest advantages for years is how developed his body is.

Also fact, Paul George is probably one of the weakest players in the NBA pound for pound.

Maybe as a rookie PG was "weak", but he will get stronger. Just look at the photo's of him latley he has gotten a lot bigger and will be able to bang with almost all SG's and SF's.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 03:59 PM
You do realize that EJ has a 40 inch vertical right? Thats up there with the best and 30% of his field goal attempts are close to the basket. Thats more than Kobe.

Yeah, saying that Eric Gordon is not a good leaper and plays below the rim shows that he is out of touch reality.

That would be like me saying that Paul George is not a good leaper. It's fine to disagree, but let's try to keep it grounded in reality.

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 04:00 PM
You do realize that EJ has a 40 inch vertical right? Thats up there with the best and 30% of his field goal attempts are close to the basket. Thats more than Kobe.

I had a 40 inch vertical when I was 15. Sure I was only 6 foot and still am, but that's not "phenomenal." Smaller guys usually have higher verticals, it is the only way to get to the rim.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 04:01 PM
I have seen several posters say the same thing so I know for a fact I am not alone in my opinion. But that's what this all is, is opinion. I don't think anyone is basing this off of statistics. This is us watching the game and drawing conclusions from it. And sometimes that's the best way to see the biggest picture. I just get this notion that you rarely watch him play, and base what you know from what you read about him.

Eric Gordon is not very long and it is not like he has a Vince Carter vertical. But for an NBA guard making millions of dollars, I wouldn't consider his leaping ability great. I was 6 foot with a 40 inch vertical when I was 15 and I could dunk. Could I palm the ball? Hell no. But it's not like the dude plays "above the rim" like Paul George does for a fact.

So you're sticking to this "Eric Gordon plays below the rim" thing huh? Interesting choice.

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 04:01 PM
You do realize that EJ has a 40 inch vertical right? Thats up there with the best and 30% of his field goal attempts are close to the basket. Thats more than Kobe.

and he attacks 24/7 that is the only reason I compare his style to Wades. EJ is not a jumper shooter he is a slasher slash creator off the PnR for himself and others with also the shooting ability of a Ben Gordon. He just doesn't settle for jumpers like Ben Gordon does. He plays smart and knows what a high % shot is and wants to take high % shots not low % shots. He wants to break you down off the dribble first and take a jump shot 2nd I love that mentality in a player.

Gamble1
12-16-2011, 04:01 PM
I have seen several posters say the same thing so I know for a fact I am not alone in my opinion. But that's what this all is, is opinion. I don't think anyone is basing this off of statistics. This is us watching the game and drawing conclusions from it. And sometimes that's the best way to see the biggest picture. I just get this notion that you rarely watch him play, and base what you know from what you read about him.

Eric Gordon is not very long and it is not like he has a Vince Carter vertical. But for an NBA guard making millions of dollars, I wouldn't consider his leaping ability great. I was 6 foot with a 40 inch vertical when I was 15 and I could dunk. Could I palm the ball? Hell no. But it's not like the dude plays "above the rim" like Paul George does for a fact.
Did you watch this game?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70CNKHAM2pY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=Axpr855fQ2w

Before College he couldn't jump.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrAc3mSeyyE

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 04:03 PM
Yeah, saying that Eric Gordon is not a good leaper and plays below the rim shows that he is out of touch reality.

That would be like me saying that Paul George is not a good leaper. It's fine to disagree, but let's try to keep it grounded in reality.

That's just the conclusion I draw from watching him. He has a small wing span. Sure, on a wide open dunk, the dude can leap. But his vertical seems to go south when he goes up in traffic. I noticed this at IU and I still notice when I do get to see him play.

Maybe it is his size and his small wing span playing tricks on my mind because he isn't soaring high? Sure. I guess he can jump. But he isn't "soaring" like Paul George is on blocks and dunks.

pacers74
12-16-2011, 04:04 PM
They are both great players, and right now Gordon is the better of the two, no doubt, but I am really excited to see what PG can turn into. If we can't get Gordon in free agency or a trade for Granger, than I would rather kepp PG and watch him devolp.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 04:04 PM
That's just the conclusion I draw from watching him. He has a small wing span. Sure, on a wide open dunk, the dude can leap. But his vertical seems to go south when he goes up in traffic. I noticed this at IU and I still notice when I do get to see him play.

Maybe it is his size and his small wing span playing tricks on my mind because he isn't soaring high? Sure. I guess he can jump. But he isn't "soaring" like Paul George is on blocks and dunks.

Is this an uncontested dunk?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Axpr855fQ2w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

MrPreGame
12-16-2011, 04:04 PM
Didn't read all the responses but here's my 2 cents

I went to NC with EJ and i grew up down the street from him, saw him play for a long time. I wouldn't do the trade b/c you can't teach EJ to grow 7+ inches. One of the biggest advantages the Pacers have is how lengthy the team is. PG is way behind EJ offensively, but PG could come close while being light years better defensively. I mean once PG learns that no guard can block his jumper and starts to develop it he could be Durant-lite.

Don't get me wrong EJ is my boy and I would LOVE to bring him home, but not for Paul. If we could have both I would cry tears of joy but we can only dream about that. I know EJ could learn to play point b/c he's not a selfish guy, but it's just a pipe dream. I say wait on EJ to hit the market and give him everything he wants in a contract, or S/T him for anything but DG, PG, or Hibbert. Hopefully NO has an owner by then and realizes he should take whatever he can get before EJ comes here in FA.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 04:05 PM
That's just the conclusion I draw from watching him. He has a small wing span. Sure, on a wide open dunk, the dude can leap. But his vertical seems to go south when he goes up in traffic. I noticed this at IU and I still notice when I do get to see him play.

Maybe it is his size and his small wing span playing tricks on my mind because he isn't soaring high? Sure. I guess he can jump. But he isn't "soaring" like Paul George is on blocks and dunks.

What about this one?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4PtAPCDdinQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 04:05 PM
So you're sticking to this "Eric Gordon plays below the rim" thing huh? Interesting choice.
anyone who says that hasn't watched EJ play ever.

EJ was playing with a broken hand at IU of course he didnt want to dunk a lot.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kzPpdSWH1Cw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

love the block at 1:40


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rRWUvHknGr4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

"Eric is like a truck he can attack the rim he can really finish"

"seriously he is so low to the ground and he is so strong he just rocked Grant Hill back


funny thing is EJ is just what the Pacers are missing someone who creates his own shot and shots for others. Yet they wont trade PG for him? I just dont get it.

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 04:06 PM
and he attacks 24/7 that is the only reason I compare his style to Wades. EJ is not a jumper shooter he is a slasher slash creator off the PnR for himself and others with also the shooting ability of a Ben Gordon. He just doesn't settle for jumpers like Ben Gordon does. He plays smart and knows what a high % shot is and wants to take high % shots not low % shots. He wants to break you down off the dribble first and take a jump shot 2nd I love that mentality in a player.

I would agree that Gordon is a slasher. The dude gets to the lane with great footwork and dribbling. He is a good player and excellent in those areas.. I feel like I'm bashing him but I'm not. Paul George is soaring high like Jordan his rookie year, and Gordon has not and will not. I guess it's just the "awe" factor when you see a 6'10 guy with George's leaping ability dunk it or get a block on the MVP.

Maybe I was off base saying Gordon can't play "above the rim." But when you are 6'3 and you have a 40 inch vertical you aren't "soaring."

Since86
12-16-2011, 04:07 PM
Derrick Rose DID average 27.8 PPG in the series and we got dispatched in 5 games. So lets be honest about how much George really "locked Rose down".

Did he defend him better than Darren Collision? Yes...... Can Darren Collision guard anyone better than a WNBAer? No

It was in Mike Wells' column yesterday about PG's growth, but after PG was switched to DRose he shot 18-57 from the field. That's 31.5% shooting.


Rose went 18-of-57 from the field after Vogel made the switch.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20111215/SPORTS04/112150368/1062/SPORTS04

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 04:08 PM
I would agree that Gordon is a slasher. The dude gets to the lane with great footwork and dribbling. He is a good player and excellent in those areas.. I feel like I'm bashing him but I'm not. Paul George is soaring high like Jordan his rookie year, and Gordon has not and will not. I guess it's just the "awe" factor when you see a 6'10 guy with George's leaping ability dunk it or get a block on the MVP.

Maybe I was off base saying Gordon can't play "above the rim." But when you are 6'3 and you have a 40 inch vertical you aren't "soaring."


Yep, Paul George was just compared to Michael Jordan. I'm out. This is reaching new levels of absurdity.

Gamble1
12-16-2011, 04:08 PM
It was in Mike Wells' column yesterday about PG's growth, but after PG was switched to DRose he shot 18-57 from the field. That's 31.5% shooting.


http://www.indystar.com/article/20111215/SPORTS04/112150368/1062/SPORTS04
Facor in also that Rose hurt his ankle and wasn't the same after that.

Since86
12-16-2011, 04:09 PM
But when you are 6'3 and you have a 40 inch vertical you aren't "soaring."

A 40inch vertical is a freak of nature. DWade doesn't even have a 40inch vert.

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 04:10 PM
anyone who says that hasn't watched EJ play ever.

EJ was playing with a broken hand at IU of course he didnt want to dunk a lot.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kzPpdSWH1Cw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

love the block at 1:40


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rRWUvHknGr4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

"Eric is like a truck he can attack the rim he can really finish"

"seriously he is so low to the ground and he is so strong he just rocked Grant Hill back


funny thing is EJ is just what the Pacers are missing someone who creates his own shot and shots for others. Yet they wont trade PG for him? I just dont get it.

Yes. I get it. The dude can dunk. He is an NBA star. This is also his highlight video, so a dunk like that doesn't even happen once a game. Paul George's dunks make his look silly.

Hicks
12-16-2011, 04:10 PM
Is it okay to think highly of both Gordon AND George? I'd hate to see this become a "choose a side" blood issue between too many people. I'm higher on Paul than most, but at the same time I have no reason to doubt the Gordon lovers, either.

Gamble1
12-16-2011, 04:11 PM
Yes. I get it. The dude can dunk. He is an NBA star. This is also his highlight video, so a dunk like that doesn't even happen once a game. Paul George's dunks make his look silly.
I think you said he "plays below the rim" which is why the videos smack that argument down let alone the stats that you dismissed as well.

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 04:12 PM
Yes. I get it. The dude can dunk. He is an NBA star. This is also his highlight video, so a dunk like that doesn't even happen once a game. Paul George's dunks make his look silly.

This is basketball it isnt a dunk contest Eric Gordon is a basketball player not a dunker your arguments are making you look silly.

Eric Gordon is a fundamentally sound player who happens to be able to jump out of the gym as well.

Please I beg you people buy league pass and watch Eric play a game before making crazy statements about a player you have obviously never seen play.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 04:12 PM
Yes. I get it. The dude can dunk. He is an NBA star. This is also his highlight video, so a dunk like that doesn't even happen once a game. Paul George's dunks make his look silly.

You said he plays below the rim and that he isn't a good leaper!

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 04:13 PM
A 40inch vertical is a freak of nature. DWade doesn't even have a 40inch vert.

Freak of nature? Really? Damn I should have been a pro athlete...Too bad these heart problems got in the way...

I was actually a superb athlete though so yea I had almost the highest vertical in my whole school. I was also the best long jumper and could have probably competed for state because I was jumping over 20 feet as freshman who had never squatted a day in his life. Once I started squatting I could easily dunk but my damn heart kept getting in the way.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 04:13 PM
When Paul George can take his man off the bounce, spin in traffic and then finish it over someone who is 7'2", please give me a call.

Gamble1
12-16-2011, 04:15 PM
Is it okay to think highly of both Gordon AND George? I'd hate to see this become a "choose a side" blood issue between too many people. I'm higher on Paul than most, but at the same time I have no reason to doubt the Gordon lovers, either.
I think most people like both but everyone realizes that Paul George is the "hope" of this franchise for foreseeable future so when ever you bring up trading him it becomes a debate on should that "hope" be placed in someone else.

I think it should and obviously 75% of others think I am wrong.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 04:16 PM
Is it okay to think highly of both Gordon AND George? I'd hate to see this become a "choose a side" blood issue between too many people. I'm higher on Paul than most, but at the same time I have no reason to doubt the Gordon lovers, either.

I don't think a single person who is supporting Gordon has said they think George will be a bust. On the flip side, you have plenty of people on the George side who seem to think Gordon is just a one trick pony.

Since86
12-16-2011, 04:16 PM
Facor in also that Rose hurt his ankle and wasn't the same after that.

He went on to shoot 45% from the field against ATL. Injuries usually hardly ever get better during the playoffs, because they don't have time to heal.

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 04:16 PM
You said he plays below the rim and that he isn't a good leaper!

Okay. I admit it. I was wrong. Hell I can admit that. But in my mind I'm comparing to what I seen Gordon for for 20 something games at IU and a few Clippers games a year, with Paul George, who may be the best dunker in the NBA.

I stand corrected. Gordon can leap and doesn't play below the rim, especially for a guy his size. But compared to Paul George, he is average at best in that respect.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 04:17 PM
Okay. I admit it. I was wrong. Hell I can admit that. But in my mind I'm comparing to what I seen Gordon for for 20 something games at IU and a few Clippers games a year, with Paul George, who may be the best dunker in the NBA.

I stand corrected. Gordon can leap and doesn't play below the rim, especially for a guy his size. But compared to Paul George, he is average at best in that respect.

You should play defensive back in the NFL.

sig
12-16-2011, 04:17 PM
Seems like George and Granger play the same position. Obviously George has not reached the potential to be considered better than Grnager yet. If this is a no brainer(??), maybe the Pacers should try to deal Granger for a Gordon/Ariza deal. IMo, Granger is currently the best player in the deal but Gordon has some more potential to realize himself. Ariza gives that Pacers depth and fairly decent player to start until George blossoms in the starting 3.

The Hornets could probably deal Kaman or Okafor to Houston for Martin and have Granger and Martin.

MrPreGame
12-16-2011, 04:17 PM
And to this guy that says EJ cant jump you need to lay off whatever drugs your on. He's short so he can't just raise up and bang on the 7 footers out there. I have seen with my own eyes this guy pull some MJ-esque acrobatic layups from High School to the NBA. What you have to realize is he has a high basketball IQ and a great jumper. So he won't drive into the lane and put himself in harm's way if he can just get a good look on a jumper. But it's RIDICULOUS to say he can't play above the rim. He's just smart enough to not get banged around like Wade or Iverson did for their careers, cuz EJ is a little injury prone.

Lance George
12-16-2011, 04:19 PM
Ben and Eric have a similar rate of drawing fouls throughout their careers. That's usually a good indicator of how much a player takes it to the hole vs. settling for jump shots.

Ben peaked at 5.9 FTA per-36 minutes in his third season.

Eric's peak? 5.9 FTA per-36 minutes in his third season.

For comparison's sake, Dwyane Wade's had two seasons of 10 FTA per-36, five seasons of 9+ FTA per-36, and seven (out of his eight-season career) of 8+ FTA per-36.


As for passing: For his career, Ben's assisted on 16.7% of baskets made while he's been on the court, which is slightly higher than Eric's rate of 15.8%. Dwyane Wade? 33.3%, with a peak of 40.5% five-years ago.


Any way you slice it, Eric Gordon is much, much closer to a Ben Gordon-type player than a Dwyane Wade-type.



I wouldn't do the trade b/c you can't teach EJ to grow 7+ inches.

The pumps don't work. I know, I've tried. :(

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 04:19 PM
And to this guy that says EJ cant jump you need to lay off whatever drugs your on. He's short so he can't just raise up and bang on the 7 footers out there. I have seen with my own eyes this guy pull some MJ-esque acrobatic layups from High School to the NBA. What you have to realize is he has a high basketball IQ and a great jumper. So he won't drive into the lane and put himself in harm's way if he can just get a good look on a jumper. But it's RIDICULOUS to say he can't play above the rim. He's just smart enough to not get banged around like Wade or Iverson did for their careers, cuz EJ is a little injury prone.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/e3__sEzUOo0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/10osANIBWcY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Gamble1
12-16-2011, 04:20 PM
He went on to shoot 45% from the field against ATL. Injuries usually hardly ever get better during the playoffs, because they don't have time to heal.
Hey I want to believe that PG can shut down or atleast limit Rose and I guess we'll see here soon how good he can do against a healthy Rose.

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 04:22 PM
Okay. I admit it. I was wrong. Hell I can admit that. But in my mind I'm comparing to what I seen Gordon for for 20 something games at IU and a few Clippers games a year, with Paul George, who may be the best dunker in the NBA.

I stand corrected. Gordon can leap and doesn't play below the rim, especially for a guy his size. But compared to Paul George, he is average at best in that respect.

he was a shell of himself at IU having a broken wrist will do that to you. His shooting wasn't as good as he is normally and he was tentative because HE HAD A BROKEN HAND.

I've followed him since HS I just think people need to watch him play before voting in this poll.

Since86
12-16-2011, 04:22 PM
Freak of nature? Really? Damn I should have been a pro athlete...Too bad these heart problems got in the way...

I was actually a superb athlete though so yea I had almost the highest vertical in my whole school. I was also the best long jumper and could have probably competed for state because I was jumping over 20 feet as freshman who had never squatted a day in his life. Once I started squatting I could easily dunk but my damn heart kept getting in the way.

Yes, a freak of nature. Here's an ebook link to a sports performance book that has verticle jump percentiles.
http://books.google.com/books?id=3TzwC4likFoC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=vertical+jump+percentiles&source=bl&ots=93bthAWBSi&sig=O-oQGomTS4W6V-Mm-wa_cGJ2AxE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=n6frTqflK8jg2QXUptilDw&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=vertical%20jump%20percentiles&f=false

Notice the D1, D1 Womens, and NBA columns.

A vertical at 31.2inches is in the 90th percentile for NBA athletes.

EDIT: The link didn't take it directly to the page. You've got to scroll down to page 60. It's table 5.9.

aaronb
12-16-2011, 04:23 PM
It was in Mike Wells' column yesterday about PG's growth, but after PG was switched to DRose he shot 18-57 from the field. That's 31.5% shooting.


http://www.indystar.com/article/20111215/SPORTS04/112150368/1062/SPORTS04

You can cherry pick samples sizes to say almost anything you want. Heck I can use a 1 game sample size to show you that Willie Burton averages 53 PPG.

Paul George is a nice little prospect. He's also a kid who didn't excel at a bad college program. And that put up 7.8 PPG in the regular season a 6 PPG on 30% shooting in the playoffs.

Durant and Jordan comps are COMPLETELY ridiculous. Derrick McKey, Chris Morris and Willie Anderson comps are a little more in line with reality.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 04:24 PM
Comparing Paul George to Kevin Durant is a little bit like saying, let me sell you this BMW! It's painted red just like a Ferrari, so it must be as good as a Ferrari!

The BMW is still a great car, but it's not a Ferrari.

Since86
12-16-2011, 04:25 PM
It's not cherry picking stats. Those are the ONLY stats with PG guarding Rose.

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 04:25 PM
When Paul George can take his man off the bounce, spin in traffic and then finish it over someone who is 7'2", please give me a call.

Once Paul George is 23, and he has years in this league under his belt under Vogel, then I guarantee I will make that call. Let's not doubt how much O'Brian hindered George's progress as well. I really seen George start to soar at the end of the year under Vogel.

And did I say Paul George was as good or will ever be as good as Jordan? No. Is it possible? Anything is possible. But to say you can't compare the two is ludicrous. Paul George's leaping ability and athleticism are the only way you can currently measure him up against the greatest, and in that regard, he is up there at the top of potential candidates.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 04:26 PM
I will be shocked, and I mean shocked, if Paul George can ever handle the ball as well as Eric Gordon. The odds are completely stacked against him.

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 04:27 PM
Yes, a freak of nature. Here's an ebook link to a sports performance book that has verticle jump percentiles.
http://books.google.com/books?id=3TzwC4likFoC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=vertical+jump+percentiles&source=bl&ots=93bthAWBSi&sig=O-oQGomTS4W6V-Mm-wa_cGJ2AxE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=n6frTqflK8jg2QXUptilDw&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=vertical%20jump%20percentiles&f=false

Notice the D1, D1 Womens, and NBA columns.

A vertical at 31.2inches is in the 90th percentile for NBA athletes.

EDIT: The link didn't take it directly to the page. You've got to scroll down to page 60. It's table 5.9.
Only other small guard who I know of with a 40 inch vertical is the guy I wanted to draft last year Reggie Jackson. But it's not official because he didn't do it at the combine.



I will be shocked, and I mean shocked, if Paul George can ever handle the ball as well as Eric Gordon. The odds are completely stacked against him.

and the thing is EJ's goal is to have them get even better. He wants to handle the ball like an elite pg he is still a long way from there but his handle should be better this year. EJ wants to eventually be able to play pg I doubt it ever gets that good. But he is smart enough to play pg just right now doesn't have his handle good enough.

EJ just like Danny has an underrated post game if he moves to pg he would be a nightmare match up in the post.

Gamble1
12-16-2011, 04:28 PM
Ben and Eric have a similar rate of drawing fouls throughout their careers. That's usually a good indicator of how much a player takes it to the hole vs. settling for jump shots.

Ben peaked at 5.9 FTA per-36 minutes in his third season.

Eric's peak? 5.9 FTA per-36 minutes in his third season.

For comparison's sake, Dwyane Wade's had two seasons of 10 FTA per-36, five seasons of 9+ FTA per-36, and seven (out of his eight-season career) of 8+ FTA per-36.


As for passing: For his career, Ben's assisted on 16.7% of baskets made while he's been on the court, which is slightly higher than Eric's rate of 15.8%. Dwyane Wade? 33.3%, with a peak of 40.5% five-years ago.


Any way you slice it, Eric Gordon is much, much closer to a Ben Gordon-type player than a Dwyane Wade-type.

You keep cherry picking everyones best year when obviously Ben's been in the league for a lot longer than the 3 year player still on his rookie contract. Bens turnovers were terrible his first 3 years which is why you used Ben's full career to make your point.

If you think EJ has peaked thats fine I just disagree.


I will be shocked, and I mean shocked, if Paul George can ever handle the ball as well as Eric Gordon. The odds are completely stacked against him.
Totally agree but he can shoot over people. Paul George needs to work on his handles but really what he needs to do is be able to do is create space like Danny does and just hit the jumper on a consistent basis.

MrPreGame
12-16-2011, 04:31 PM
<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/e3__sEzUOo0" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>


<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/10osANIBWcY" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>


Should have clarified, he can do it but he's not gonna do it consistently. His game just allows him other options than just banging. But he is a banger when he wants to be. It just isn't as pretty as other guys who are taller.

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 04:32 PM
Comparing Paul George to Kevin Durant is a little bit like saying, let me sell you this BMW! It's painted red just like a Ferrari, so it must be as good as a Ferrari!

The BMW is still a great car, but it's not a Ferrari.

No because nothing you can ever do will make the BMW better than that Ferrari. So did you know for sure when the Lakers picked Kobe in the teens he would arguably be just as good as Jordan? I don't think he is, but the rings, MVPs, and statistics don't lie...We can dream that Paul George will be the best player Indiana ever had, because it is possible! Is it likely? No! Possible? Yes!

And it's not like Paul George doesn't have the talent to reach that dream we have. He does. So it is extremely possible, even if history shows us it is unlikely.

Paul George has the most potential of any player we have ever drafted, and as a rookie played the best perimeter defense an Indiana NBA team has ever seen in the playoffs. It was nothing short of phenomenal the way he defended MVP Derrick Rose. And this was after everyone on the board had already drawn the conclusion before the season ever started that George was "too slow" or "too clumsy" to even guard quicker 2 guards, let alone a point guard that is arguably the fastest player in the NBA.

aaronb
12-16-2011, 04:32 PM
It's not cherry picking stats. Those are the ONLY stats with PG guarding Rose.


It's also an extremely small sample size.

Gamble1
12-16-2011, 04:34 PM
Paul George has the most potential of any player we have ever drafted, and as a rookie played the best perimeter defense an Indiana NBA team has ever seen in the playoffs. It was nothing short of phenomenal the way he defended MVP Derrick Rose. And this was after everyone on the board had already drawn the conclusion before the season ever started that George was "too slow" or "too clumsy" to even guard quicker 2 guards, let alone a point guard that is arguably the fastest player in the NBA.
Bender had the most potential. The guy could grab dimes off the top of the backboard.

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 04:36 PM
No because nothing you can ever do will make the BMW better than that Ferrari. So did you know for sure when the Lakers picked Kobe in the teens he would arguably be just as good as Jordan? I don't think he is, but the rings, MVPs, and statistics don't lie...We can dream that Paul George will be the best player Indiana ever had, because it is possible! Is it likely? No! Possible? Yes!

And it's not like Paul George doesn't have the talent to reach that dream we have. He does. So it is extremely possible, even if history shows us it is unlikely.

Paul George has the most potential of any player we have ever drafted, and as a rookie played the best perimeter defense an Indiana NBA team has ever seen in the playoffs. It was nothing short of phenomenal the way he defended MVP Derrick Rose. And this was after everyone on the board had already drawn the conclusion before the season ever started that George was "too slow" or "too clumsy" to even guard quicker 2 guards, let alone a point guard that is arguably the fastest player in the NBA.

Kobe went in the teens because he refused to play for anyone eles. NJ would of took him over Kittles but he wouldn't play there.

Not saying you cant find stars in the teens cause you can. But Kobe was the best talent in that draft but he refused to go anywhere but LA.



Bender had the most potential. The guy could grab dimes off the top of the backboard.
Whats that have to do with basketball? When I think potential I think of guys who showed they have basketball talents as well as physical talents. For that reason alone would of been the reason I draft Durant over Oden. Watching him play in college was insane by far the best player/ prospect ive ever seen play college ball but im young lol. He had it all the ability and the size and athleticism and work ethic.

Since86
12-16-2011, 04:37 PM
It's also an extremely small sample size.

A small sample size is still better than no sample size.

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 04:38 PM
I will be shocked, and I mean shocked, if Paul George can ever handle the ball as well as Eric Gordon. The odds are completely stacked against him.

Dribbling is something a guy as raw as George can improve on. You can't tell me when you were younger spending hours working on your dribbles didn't make them better. He will get better at ball handling. Had he been a basketball player his whole life in camps teaching him how to dribble, and he was where he is at now, sure I would be more worried.

But George is the definition of raw and many of this board were questioning if he would even be ready to play for 2 or 3 years. He came in right away and defended the MVP point guard 1 on 1 better than anyone did all of last year. That is something to really be excited about, and a player I'm sure Bird considers "untouchable."

xBulletproof
12-16-2011, 04:40 PM
It's also an extremely small sample size.

Any stats from a single playoff series are a small sample size. And you brought that into the discussion, so what's your point then?

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 04:40 PM
When it comes to ball handling, being 6'10" hurts Paul George. Just flat out.

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 04:40 PM
Kobe went in the teens because he refused to play for anyone eles. NJ would of took him over Kittles but he wouldn't play there.

Not saying you cant find stars in the teens cause you can. But Kobe was the best talent in that draft but he refused to go anywhere but LA.

Really? I never heard that. From every thing I read over the years, Kobe "slipped" to LA. And I don't remember when we played LA in the Finals anyone crowning Kobe as the next Jordan like they did with LeBron.

I just didn't think people thought he was that talented when LA got him in the teens. If what you say is true, then I hate Kobe even more. He would be the definition of what is wrong in the NBA.

Trader Joe
12-16-2011, 04:41 PM
LA didn't even draft Kobe so I'm not sure what you're reading. Charlotte drafted him and used him as bait for the Lakers because Kobe said he would only sign with the Lakers.

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 04:43 PM
When it comes to ball handling, being 6'10" hurts Paul George. Just flat out.

I can definitely agree. It will always be harder for him to keep the ball away from the defender. But the defender also almost has no chance of altering his shot when he does drive to the hole if he keeps getting stronger. There are very few guys in the NBA I truly believe can get up higher than George.

If you take two guys with equal basketball talent, the longer more athletic guy will always win. Sure being long and athletic doesn't mean you have talent, hence why we have seen so many flops over the years. But Paul George has already proved a lot of doubters wrong and I believe he will continue to do so.

Gamble1
12-16-2011, 04:45 PM
Whats that have to do with basketball? When I think potential I think of guys who showed they have basketball talents as well as physical talents. For that reason alone would of been the reason I draft Durant over Oden. Watching him play in college was insane by far the best player/ prospect ive ever seen play college ball but im young lol. He had it all the ability and the size and athleticism and work ethic.
Bender by far had the most potential out of all the Pacers drafted. Unfortunately he didn't go to some small college and refine his skills before going to the draft but if he had he would have been much better prospect than PG IMO.

Since86
12-16-2011, 04:47 PM
Really? I never heard that. From every thing I read over the years, Kobe "slipped" to LA. And I don't remember when we played LA in the Finals anyone crowning Kobe as the next Jordan like they did with LeBron.

I just didn't think people thought he was that talented when LA got him in the teens. If what you say is true, then I hate Kobe even more. He would be the definition of what is wrong in the NBA.

It's true. Coach Cal wanted him in NJ, and they even had dinner together. Kobe let it be known, after the dinner, that he didn't want any part of NJ, so they passed on him. Would have taken him 8th too.

I'll dig up the link.

EDIT:

The night before the draft, Calipari and Nash had dinner with Bryant's parents, Joe and Pam, at the Radisson in Secaucus, N.J. Kobe's mother and father were thrilled that their son would be playing within commuting distance of their suburban Philly home.



Joe -- who had played in the NBA and in Italy, where Kobe spent part of his youth -- told the Nets' executives he believed Kobe would develop into a starter as a rookie and into an All-Star during his second season. "As we left that dinner," Nash recalled, "Cal told me, 'Wow, Joe really has unrealistic goals for Kobe.' As it turned out, Joe's goals were pretty realistic."



Over lunch on draft day, Calipari and Nash told one of the Nets' seven owners, Joe Taub, that Bryant would be a Net in eight hours. Taub preferred John Wallace (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/884/john-wallace), the Syracuse senior, and worried that a high school kid might ultimately leave for a bigger market and a better team in free agency.



Only Bryant wasn't about to wait years for his liberation. He called Calipari after the coach's lunch with Taub, and Bryant's agent, Arn Tellem, called Nash. Prospect and agent declared they wanted no part of Jersey; Tellem even threatened that his client would play in Italy if the Nets ignored their wishes.



Nash met with a panicked Calipari and tried to calm the coach. The GM made some phone calls and figured out that the Lakers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/lal/los-angeles-lakers)' Jerry West had reached an agreement with Charlotte, holding the 13th pick, to trade Vlade Divac (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/205/vlade-divac) for Bryant; West was confident that Kobe would make it to No. 13 if the Nets passed at No. 8.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=oconnor_ian&id=6255802

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 04:47 PM
LA didn't even draft Kobe so I'm not sure what you're reading. Charlotte drafted him and used him as bait for the Lakers because Kobe said he would only sign with the Lakers.

Well it's just blurry in my memory from over the years but I guess I never really cared too much to check into it because I hate the Lakers. I was a kid in those days and the Pacers were in the finals, you think I cared about anyone on the Lakers? I freaking hated Shaq.

But I just lost a lot of respect for Kobe. Cried his way to a big market so Shaq could carry him to a bunch of rings? Definitely not as good as Jordan.

Midcoasted
12-16-2011, 04:51 PM
Bender by far had the most potential out of all the Pacers drafted. Unfortunately he didn't go to some small college and refine his skills before going to the draft but if he had he would have been much better prospect than PG IMO.

I would say they are similar in potential. I drank Bender away in my memory a long time ago. You just brought up some hard feelings. If Bender would have had good knees, Reggie may have gotten a ring. But I could say a million different things could have happened, and Reggie would have got a ring.

Simply put: it still haunts me Reggie didn't get a ring.

Lance George
12-16-2011, 05:23 PM
There is no cherry picking of stats in my comparison of the Gordons and Dwyane Wade. For anyone who doubts that, here's the numbers (linked to BasketballReference.com) from Ben Gordon's, Eric Gordon's, and Dwyane Wade's first three years:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/816/68446906.gif (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=gordobe01&y1=2007&p2=gordoer01&y2=2011&p3=wadedw01&y3=2006)

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 05:26 PM
There is no cherry picking of stats in my comparison of the Gordons and Dwyane Wade. For anyone who doubts that, here's the numbers (linked to BasketballReference.com) from Ben Gordon's, Eric Gordon's, and Dwyane Wade's first three years:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/816/68446906.gif (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=gordobe01&y1=2007&p2=gordoer01&y2=2011&p3=wadedw01&y3=2006)

Baksetball isn't baseball the game isn't played by stats. Do we need a reminder of Troy Murphy. Please just buy league pass and watch the players before you even talk about EJ you don't know what your talking about. And please watch both ends of the floor not just one.

Gamble1
12-16-2011, 05:34 PM
There is no cherry picking of stats in my comparison of the Gordons and Dwyane Wade. For anyone who doubts that, here's the numbers (linked to BasketballReference.com) from Ben Gordon's, Eric Gordon's, and Dwyane Wade's first three years:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/816/68446906.gif (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=gordobe01&y1=2007&p2=gordoer01&y2=2011&p3=wadedw01&y3=2006)
Can you have Ben Gordon play against starters for the first 3 years. That would help his stats for sure. :)

Since86
12-16-2011, 05:36 PM
All I take away from that is that EJ scores a little lower, with much better shooting percentages. I think it shows EJ in a more positive light than the other 2, atleast scoring wise.

Lance George
12-16-2011, 05:37 PM
Baksetball isn't baseball the game isn't played by stats. Do we need a reminder of Troy Murphy. Please just buy league pass and watch the players before you even talk about EJ you don't know what your talking about. And please watch both ends of the floor not just one.

Win/Loss Record: Stats.
Final Scores: Stats.

Stats are just measured production, and out-producing other teams is what leads to victories.

Honestly, I think you're too emotionally invested in Eric Gordon to have an unbiased opinion. You want him to be something more than a Ben Gordon clone, but there's little-to-no evidence to support that he is.

Even if we ignore individual production, there's still the fact that Ben was winning more than Eric through his first three seasons. Ben was the leading scorer on a 49-win team in his third season, for Christ's sake.

Eric? The second leading scorer on a lowly 32-win team. Ouch.

Lance George
12-16-2011, 05:40 PM
Can you have Ben Gordon play against starters for the first 3 years. That would help his stats for sure. :)

Ben played 29.5 mpg─nearly two-thirds of the game. It's inevitable that a large portion of his time on the court was against opposing teams' starters.

pacer4ever
12-16-2011, 05:41 PM
Mark Boyle just said he wouldn't of traded EJ straight up for Chris Paul and said NO got the better end of the trade.

I think he has been reading PD he is using all of my points to explain why.;)

Mark is a smart man ;)

Gamble1
12-16-2011, 05:45 PM
Even if we ignore individual stats, there's still the fact that Ben was winning more than Eric through his first three seasons than Eric has. Ben was the leading scorer on a 49-win team in his third season. Eric? The second leading scorer on a lowly 32-win team.
You realize that Ben Gordon's production droped when he went to a worse team right?

I mean even if you look at his per 36 minute stats his production dropped so why wouldn't Eric Gordons production improve if he had played with a more complete team. You know one without Baron Davis and Drew Gooden ala Charlie V.

RWB
12-16-2011, 05:51 PM
Mark is a smart man ;)

With an opinion like everyone here. :D And if I'm not mistaken he thought the Pacers should have kept Ron Ron over JO during their season of discontent. I think that might have been a strike. Of course it's kind of like choosing the less of two problems.

spazzxb
12-16-2011, 06:11 PM
Durant at 19 was already averaging 20ppg in the NBA. PG at 19 didn't even score 17ppg on 42% shooting in the WAC. No shot PG ever becomes as good of scorer as Durant absolutely zero. Durant is a very rare player who is a once in a generation type talent in terms of how good he is at scoring the basketball.

If PG has Durant type upside that would be like saying Eric would have better than Dwade type upside. That would be like saying Eric Gordon has Jordan type upside :laugh:

Im really done with the discussion the homer-ism is unbelievable.

Dude its called a ceiling and was mostly referring to body type and athleticism. I never said there was a great chance of him reaching it. However 6'10 wings are a lot less common than 6'5(guessing) wings. Really I am just pointing out that they are completely different animals. Gordon is not Paul's ceiling.

vnzla81
12-16-2011, 07:04 PM
Mark Boyle just said he wouldn't of traded EJ straight up for Chris Paul and said NO got the better end of the trade.

I think he has been reading PD he is using all of my points to explain why.;)

Mark is a smart man ;)

Good idea for him to stay on the radio, he would suck as a GM if he think that.

CP3>> Gordon and is not even close and I like EJ.

Doddage
12-17-2011, 12:08 AM
Good idea for him to stay on the radio, he would suck as a GM if he think that.
And I suppose him pushing for us to pursue Baron Davis, Gilbert Arenas, and Nene at max salary would make him a better one?


CP3>> Gordon and is not even close and I like EJ.
Well duh, but that's right now. But in a few years when CP's older and his knees haven't gotten any stronger, the trade will look like a home-run for the Hornets that will have an EJ who will just be hitting his prime. And that's not even to mention the other pieces they'll have.

HC
12-17-2011, 12:35 AM
Well it's just blurry in my memory from over the years but I guess I never really cared too much to check into it because I hate the Lakers. I was a kid in those days and the Pacers were in the finals, you think I cared about anyone on the Lakers? I freaking hated Shaq.

But I just lost a lot of respect for Kobe. Cried his way to a big market so Shaq could carry him to a bunch of rings? Definitely not as good as Jordan.

Yeah except they both arrived in LA during the same offseason, and always hated each other.

pacer4ever
12-17-2011, 12:50 AM
Good idea for him to stay on the radio, he would suck as a GM if he think that.

CP3>> Gordon and is not even close and I like EJ.

NOLA was never gonna contend with CP3 now obviously CP3 is the better player. But if the want to win a title that trade made sense IMO even if CP3 didnt ask for a trade. But NOLA would never trade him because how marketable he is and how he he draws money wise this is a business and not every team wants to win titles.

xBulletproof
12-17-2011, 01:53 AM
It's not just Pacers homers ....

http://blogs.bulls.com/2011/12/bulls-open-preseason-by-beating-pacers-again/


 If Paul George gets more aggressive he’d going to be an offensive version of Scottie Pippen.

This says 'blog', and just so you know it's not just some guy in his basement, he's been a writer for the Chicago Tribune, Sporting News, and has written a couple of books about the NBA.

PacersPride
12-17-2011, 12:42 PM
giving up paul george for gordon is too much at this time. rather let it play out and see if we can acquire EJ over the 2012 offseason. Bird is loyal and may not be willing to deal Granger but i would think that deal makes some sense for the hornets b/c its where Granger is from.

realistically, if we were to go after him now, Granger, 2 first rounders unprotected, Rush (rush can go in any deal) and take back salary in either okafor or kaman, might be a deal the league may accept.

Danny really would be Sterns *****. dont want to see us give up PG24, Hansbro, Hibbert.

Would be willing to deal DC as well, in the above trade. believe the hornets have to consider it.

Granger, DC, Rush, 2 firsts

for

EJ, Okafor

Isaac
12-17-2011, 01:34 PM
It's not just Pacers homers ....

http://blogs.bulls.com/2011/12/bulls-open-preseason-by-beating-pacers-again/



This says 'blog', and just so you know it's not just some guy in his basement, he's been a writer for the Chicago Tribune, Sporting News, and has written a couple of books about the NBA.

Haha this is Sam Smith, not exactly the most reputable guy. He also wrote that the Pacers have one of the worst benches in the NBA in that blog. He writes on a blog because he's written his way out of every job he's had. He is one of the worst reporters in NBA history.

However, he's right on PG. :)

Dgreenwell3
12-17-2011, 02:27 PM
Haha this is Sam Smith, not exactly the most reputable guy. He also wrote that the Pacers have one of the worst benches in the NBA in that blog. He writes on a blog because he's written his way out of every job he's had. He is one of the worst reporters in NBA history.

However, he's right on PG. :)

Wow, the guy slams the pacers bench,
When the bench is
Considered to be one of the best in. The NBA. I am guessing he's just basically a bulls fan.

Lance George
12-17-2011, 02:53 PM
Welcome Your Newest Hornets | Hornets247.com (http://www.hornets247.com/blog/2011/12/17/welcome-your-newest-hornets/#more-25141)

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/2339/newhornets.jpg

:laugh:

vnzla81
12-17-2011, 03:05 PM
Damn those guys look so happy :laugh:

Day-V
12-17-2011, 03:18 PM
Looks like a prison photo.

Kid Minneapolis
12-17-2011, 03:26 PM
Welcome Your Newest Hornets | Hornets247.com (http://www.hornets247.com/blog/2011/12/17/welcome-your-newest-hornets/#more-25141)

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/2339/newhornets.jpg

:laugh:

"We went to NOLA, and all we got was this crappy t-shirt..."

1984
12-17-2011, 04:10 PM
Let's start a new section called "North Central High School" where Eric Gordon trades can be discussed.

Hicks
12-17-2011, 04:24 PM
Kaman looks like the old man shoveling salt in Home Alone.

idioteque
12-17-2011, 05:50 PM
Wow, that picture is absolutely priceless!

1984
12-17-2011, 06:58 PM
Welcome Your Newest Hornets | Hornets247.com (http://www.hornets247.com/blog/2011/12/17/welcome-your-newest-hornets/#more-25141)

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/2339/newhornets.jpg

:laugh:

"Mom and Dad, we are still alive."

It looks like a hostage photo, but instead of a newspaper the hostage takers gave them jerseys.

BlueNGold
12-17-2011, 07:59 PM
It looks like they're at a funeral. Maybe the Hornets should just cut'em.