PDA

View Full Version : Crawford turns down Pacers offer



JBones19
12-13-2011, 06:02 PM
Per Mike Wells twitter.
Could someone post link for me? Thanks

travmil
12-13-2011, 06:04 PM
****!

JBones19
12-13-2011, 06:05 PM
I would love if we would go after Afflalo but he may be too much.

travmil
12-13-2011, 06:07 PM
@MikeWellsNBA: Jamal Crawford has turned down the Pacers 2 yr, $10 million down offer, according to a source

OlBlu
12-13-2011, 06:15 PM
@MikeWellsNBA: Jamal Crawford has turned down the Pacers 2 yr, $10 million down offer, according to a source
I am not sold on Crawford because he doesn't defend but that said, he has several teams pursuing him.

90'sNBARocked
12-13-2011, 06:24 PM
KBergCBS Having turned down the Pacers' two-year, $10M deal, Jamal Crawford now considering Portland, NY and Sacramento, source says.

NY and Portand dont have money Sac does

So either Jamal wants to be overpaid or with the Knicks in the spotlight or with his buddy LA out in Portland

Kemo
12-13-2011, 06:26 PM
Well, this news kinda sucks..

But to be honest, I would rather just see the minutes Crawford got , go to George,Lance and Hill .

While I understood the want/need for a clutch/ice-in-his-veins creator , it took away from the above mentioned players..

I am totally , more than happy with where we are at now with our roster...

The only thing that needs done, IMO , is we need another good bigman who can backup the 5 spot behind Roy and Foster, and occasionally slide over to the 4 if it was absolutely needed...

Other than that, I really don't believe we need anything else really..
I'd rather see Lance get the opportunity to realize his potential, than to be held back by signing another 1 or 2 guard ...

ApNeDtRiEeW
12-13-2011, 06:29 PM
Offer him more

Heisenberg
12-13-2011, 06:31 PM
Fine with me. We have two young guys that're legitimate starters.

Scot Pollard
12-13-2011, 06:35 PM
So.....what?

Bird's closing the door? I don't think Crawford would if we came back with a better offer.

Out of all the teams listed, we're the best fit for him.

Heisenberg
12-13-2011, 06:37 PM
Sacto? Jimmer, Evans, Thornton, Salmons, and Garcia aren't enough 2s?

pacers74
12-13-2011, 06:38 PM
Oh well, now no Crawford or Mayo. We just have to hope Lance is ready to step it up.

Dr. Hibbert
12-13-2011, 06:40 PM
I think a lot of you are making some really premature leaps with Lance.

pacers74
12-13-2011, 06:42 PM
I think a lot of you are making some really premature leaps with Lance.

I am making no leaps at all with Lance. I am just stating that we did not upgrade our SG position and this opens up some playing time. It is his to take it if he can.

Kegboy
12-13-2011, 06:46 PM
Personally, I would rather go into the season and see how trades develop than pay Crawford more money. Worse case scenario we readdress the wing positions in 7 months when we have a clear idea of exactly what George, Hill, and Lance bring to the table.

Wilk39
12-13-2011, 06:46 PM
Well, this news kinda sucks..


The only thing that needs done, IMO , is we need another good bigman who can backup the 5 spot behind Roy and Foster, and occasionally slide over to the 4 if it was absolutely needed...



A la, Josh McRoberts...

xBulletproof
12-13-2011, 06:47 PM
I really like how Larry is handling things. He goes for guys at HIS price, and if you don't like that price, he moves on. How it should be. I think too many GM's just ask what the highest offer is and just keep topping each other raising the price.

I am severely shocked we haven't heard anything about Nene though. WTF is going on with that?

imawhat
12-13-2011, 06:47 PM
http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/neo.jpg

bphil
12-13-2011, 06:48 PM
Good. I knew Crawford was poison as soon as Kahn showed interest in him.

imawhat
12-13-2011, 06:51 PM
Crawford had a great playoff series against the Magic, but I think he takes minutes away from Hill/George/Lance/Jones more than he adds. I'm underrating his veteran leadership, but not sure how valuable that is at SG. Jones has gone further in the playoffs. Crawford was up there with Dunleavy/Murphy in terms of most career games without reaching playoffs.

2/$10 was pretty good/smart on the Pacers' part.

Now let's see if we can develop the young guys a little more. If we really, really need a low % chucking shot creator then I'm sure we can snag Luther Head back up for cheap.

Kid Minneapolis
12-13-2011, 06:58 PM
5 mill a year, he thinks he's gonna do better?

Glad we didn't land either Mayo or Crawford, didn't want them that bad anyway. Both flawed players.

Winner
12-13-2011, 07:00 PM
We don't need him anyway. Let's get Afflalo

Pacer Fan
12-13-2011, 07:02 PM
Just cause rumor is that he turned it down doesn't mean he still won't sign. Pacers may offer another deal or the source could be incorrect.

Anthem
12-13-2011, 07:23 PM
I'm happy with the amount we offered, and not overly concerned that he didn't sign. We're stacked in the backcourt. Use that money on a big man.

rock747
12-13-2011, 07:32 PM
This makes letting a guy who wanted to be here (McRoberts) walk sting a bit for me.

CableKC
12-13-2011, 07:34 PM
It would have been nice if he came to Indy, but if he doesn't want to come to the Pacers while turning down $10 mil a year for 2 years....well, putting it delicately....EFF him.

Is Mayo available for a 2nd round pick? If not, lets go after Afflalo, then Reggie Williams.

ksuttonjr76
12-13-2011, 07:37 PM
Did everyone forget Rush? Personally, I ONLY wanted to get rid of him, because I felt that he was a PR nightmare waiting to happening. However, his 3PT shooting, rebounds, blocking, and defense is still useful for the second unit.

Collison/Hill
George/Rush
Granger/George/Jones
West/Hansbrough
Hibbert/Foster

I can live with it. On NBA 2K12, that is one hell of a team :D.

Really?
12-13-2011, 07:38 PM
If we would have got Crawford for 5 mill then that would have been a steal, I doubt he signs in NY, someone will probably offer about 7 or 8 and he will take it.

Just a chance to sign one of the guys invited to camp if we would like.

Hopefully, Hill, and George step up and turn into that scorer type player that we will need in the Playoffs, I think Hill has it in him for sure.

I say if we want another guy we can go after Reggie Williams, if not then we should just stay as we are.

xBulletproof
12-13-2011, 07:38 PM
*sigh* ...

This McRoberts obsession is never going to end. I swear.

Anthem
12-13-2011, 07:38 PM
Is Mayo available for a 2nd round pick? If not, lets go after Afflalo, then Reggie Williams.
Why do we need more shooting guards at all? If you can add a valuable piece for cheap then I'm all for it, but there's not a high need there.

Gamble1
12-13-2011, 07:41 PM
Sam Amick: Source says Jamal Crawford is now considering offers from New York, Portland and Sacramento (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html). Twitter (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html)


Well lets see how this plays out. I bet he comes back to the table.

Scot Pollard
12-13-2011, 07:44 PM
It would have been nice if he came to Indy, but if he doesn't want to come to the Pacers while turning down $10 mil a year for 2 years....well, putting it delicately....EFF him.

Is Mayo available for a 2nd round pick? If not, lets go after Afflalo, then Reggie Williams.

Not 10M a season, 10M total, rougly 5M a season.

It was a low "we'll give it a try" offer with no one actually making formal offers.

We need to up the offer if we really do want him.

If it were for 10M a year, he'd more than likely take that, but I wouldn't offer him more than 7-8M a year.

pezasied182
12-13-2011, 07:47 PM
We don't need him anyway. Let's get Afflalo

Afflalo is an RFA, it might be a little pricey to pull him from the Nuggets, however, they did just acquire Rudy Fernandez..

bballpacen
12-13-2011, 07:48 PM
Not 10M a season, 10M total, rougly 5M a season.

It was a low "we'll give it a try" offer with no one actually making formal offers.

We need to up the offer if we really do want him.

If it were for 10M a year, he'd more than likely take that, but I wouldn't offer him more than 7-8M a year.
In that case, pass...

Gamble1
12-13-2011, 07:50 PM
If we would have got Crawford for 5 mill then that would have been a steal, I doubt he signs in NY, someone will probably offer about 7 or 8 and he will take it.

Just a chance to sign one of the guys invited to camp if we would like.

Hopefully, Hill, and George step up and turn into that scorer type player that we will need in the Playoffs, I think Hill has it in him for sure.

I say if we want another guy we can go after Reggie Williams, if not then we should just stay as we are.
There is some competition to sign williams as well.



David Aldridge: Bobcats, Raptors, Blazers, Rockets all trying to sign Reggie Williams, whose qualifying offer from GS was rescinded Sunday. On the HT Blog (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html). Twitter (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html)

QuickRelease
12-13-2011, 07:51 PM
Afflalo is an RFA, it might be a little pricey to pull him from the Nuggets, however, they did just acquire Rudy Fernandez..Probably more to do with lessening the blow of losing Wilson Chandler until March. I wouldn't mind looking at him when he comes back overseas.

Speed
12-13-2011, 07:53 PM
This could be a really big chance for Lance, imo. I hope so.

rexnom
12-13-2011, 07:54 PM
I'm happy with the amount we offered, and not overly concerned that he didn't sign. We're stacked in the backcourt. Use that money on a big man.
I do think that we could have used Crawford (people seem to forget how inconsistent Stephenson and Rush are and how unrefined George's offensive game is). However, I think there will be other opportunities, now and during the season, to get the off-the-bench gunner help we need. Who knows, maybe one of our players even grows into it.

Cherokee
12-13-2011, 07:58 PM
At least now we can make a run at Earl Boykins.

Gamble1
12-13-2011, 07:59 PM
I do think that we could have used Crawford (people seem to forget how inconsistent Stephenson and Rush are and how unrefined George's offensive game is). However, I think there will be other opportunities, now and during the season, to get the off-the-bench gunner help we need. Who knows, maybe one of our players even grows into it.
I think the West signing really helps the team be more balanced overall and opposing defenses won't be able to key on just Danny and Roy.

Collison will probably morph into the go to scorer this year if we don't get a FA to take that role.

MrHale
12-13-2011, 08:03 PM
I do think that we could have used Crawford (people seem to forget how inconsistent Stephenson and Rush are and how unrefined George's offensive game is). However, I think there will be other opportunities, now and during the season, to get the off-the-bench gunner help we need. Who knows, maybe one of our players even grows into it.

I would of loved either mayo or crawford, but I do not think its fair to say stephenson is inconsistant he hasn't had enough time to prove himself

Gamble1
12-13-2011, 08:10 PM
Just to drive home that last point when there is 4 seconds left on the shot clock here is who takes the last shot percentage wise..

Danny at 8%
Collison at 12%
David West at 20%
Jamal Crawford at 20%

This team really needs Collison to play well and here is why. Danny has the highest efg% with 4 seconds left on the shot clock. West and Crawford are about the same but the difference is that West gets his off an assist. OF course we don't have Chris Paul but if Collison can come through in the clutch and make the right play then we got ourselves a team able to score a last second shot.

If Collsion can't then I think Hill can provide what we need.

xBulletproof
12-13-2011, 08:11 PM
Collison will probably morph into the go to scorer this year if we don't get a FA to take that role.

He really can't for the most part. He has to rely on getting to the rim in 1 on 1 situations. His jump shot is so slow and methodical that he can't just shoot over people like that effectively.

I think that job will fall to Paul George if he worked on his handles. He can create space anytime he wants and doesn't have a painfully slow release. I'd say if normal, it'll really be West's job however.

JB24
12-13-2011, 08:12 PM
@jwquick
Agent Andy Miller confirms Portland's interest in guard Jamal Crawford. They have offered 2 years, $10 million. Crawford considering


http://twitter.com/#!/jwquick/status/146754997529485312

Probably because he's a Seattle guy- hometown (or in this case regional) discount.

jeffg-body
12-13-2011, 08:15 PM
Ok, no Mayo or Crawford. Who is the next guy we could look at through FA or trade?

jeffg-body
12-13-2011, 08:20 PM
Has he made a decision yet? Maybe if we could come back and say up the offer to 2 years at 12 million, just a thought.

Ratking
12-13-2011, 08:20 PM
We just have to put ourselves in a position where we dont need a clutch offensive player. Always win by 10.

Gamble1
12-13-2011, 08:21 PM
He really can't for the most part. He has to rely on getting to the rim in 1 on 1 situations. His jump shot is so slow and methodical that he can't just shoot over people like that effectively.

I think that job will fall to Paul George if he worked on his handles. He can create space anytime he wants and doesn't have a painfully slow release. I'd say if normal, it'll really be West's job however.
His jump shot is slow but most times he can get to the rim and create separation. I think Collison is going to be much better this year without JOB. Adding David West will only help his game and his decision making when the clock is counting down.

Ratking
12-13-2011, 08:26 PM
I think our clutch move could be D. West pick and pop for Collison, with G. Hill and Granger at the corner threes.

Dr. Hibbert
12-13-2011, 08:27 PM
I am making no leaps at all with Lance. I am just stating that we did not upgrade our SG position and this opens up some playing time. It is his to take it if he can.

Didn't mean to target you specifically, sorry if it came off that way. Just meant I keep seeing Lance this, Lance that, lineups factoring Lance into major minutes, assertions that the Pacers don't need other players at guard because they have Lance, assertions that Lance is great depth, etc. Just in generally browsing this board.

And every time, I'm asking myself just what in the heck Lance has done to inspire any confidence yet. Other than behave for an offseason.

Hicks
12-13-2011, 08:27 PM
A la, Josh McRoberts...

If Josh McRoberts were a center, sure.

Scot Pollard
12-13-2011, 08:28 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/jwquick/status/146754997529485312

Probably because he's a Seattle guy- hometown (or in this case regional) discount.

Get on that phone Bird and offer more!

CableKC
12-13-2011, 08:33 PM
Why do we need more shooting guards at all? If you can add a valuable piece for cheap then I'm all for it, but there's not a high need there.
Why?

Ask Bird, he's the one pursuing Mayo and Crawford. I'm thinking that Bird wants a very reliable scorer in the 2nd Unit to pair with GH and PG. Personally, I'm perfectly okay with having with splitting the remaining Guard minutes between Inferno/BRush/Lance in the 2nd unit....but my guess is that Bird is looking at making as deep of a run that he can make in the next 2 years with West still on board.

Lance George
12-13-2011, 08:35 PM
jwquick Jason Quick
The irony: Crawford, Roy are very close and live within minutes of each other in Seattle. For Crawford to be Blazer, Roy needs to be waived

Scot Pollard
12-13-2011, 08:37 PM
Don't ease off the gas Bird. You're on a roll.

CableKC
12-13-2011, 08:38 PM
Not 10M a season, 10M total, rougly 5M a season.

It was a low "we'll give it a try" offer with no one actually making formal offers.

We need to up the offer if we really do want him.

If it were for 10M a year, he'd more than likely take that, but I wouldn't offer him more than 7-8M a year.
No wonder....I thought that it was a $10 mil per year offer. No wonder he turned it down. No one else thinks that a $5mil per year / 2 year offer is low-balling him?

Scot Pollard
12-13-2011, 08:40 PM
No wonder....I thought that it was a $10 mil per year offer. No wonder he turned it down. No one else thinks that a $5mil per year / 2 year offer is low-balling him?

A lot of us do.

If Bird really wants him, he'll offer more. I can't imagine he'll offer more than 7-8M a year, 14-16M over 2 years.

I really hope he makes a second offer. We lost out on Mayo and Crawford is right there.

ilive4sports
12-13-2011, 08:46 PM
No wonder....I thought that it was a $10 mil per year offer. No wonder he turned it down. No one else thinks that a $5mil per year / 2 year offer is low-balling him?

still better than the knicks offer.

Anthem
12-13-2011, 08:47 PM
I do think that we could have used Crawford (people seem to forget how inconsistent Stephenson and Rush are and how unrefined George's offensive game is). However, I think there will be other opportunities, now and during the season, to get the off-the-bench gunner help we need. Who knows, maybe one of our players even grows into it.
Exactly. We definitely could have used him, but I didn't want us breaking the bank for him.

CableKC
12-13-2011, 08:48 PM
A lot of us do.

If Bird really wants him, he'll offer more. I can't imagine he'll offer more than 7-8M a year, 14-16M over 2 years.

I really hope he makes a second offer. We lost out on Mayo and Crawford is right there.
I totally agree.....I'm perfectly fine with even going up to $8 mil per year if its a 2 year deal.

Gamble1
12-13-2011, 08:49 PM
He really can't for the most part. He has to rely on getting to the rim in 1 on 1 situations. His jump shot is so slow and methodical that he can't just shoot over people like that effectively.

I think that job will fall to Paul George if he worked on his handles. He can create space anytime he wants and doesn't have a painfully slow release. I'd say if normal, it'll really be West's job however.
I wanted to add this as well.

One thing about Collsion is that he hits tough shots and even though his shot is slow he can still shot over people and make difficult shots.

The Bulls series sort of exposed Collsions weaknesses but it also showed his strengths. Look at the 23 second mark as well as the 2:05 and the 4:24. The 23 mark is shooting a fade away over a 7 footer. The 2:05 shows him going one on one with Rose. The 4:24 shows his ability to work of a pick. All of them are when the shot clock is winding down and clearly if he can be consistent then I like our chances of hitting a game winner with the ball in his hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5UJYJTFgWI&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Dr. Hibbert
12-13-2011, 08:49 PM
Didn't mean to target you specifically, sorry if it came off that way. Just meant I keep seeing Lance this, Lance that, lineups factoring Lance into major minutes, assertions that the Pacers don't need other players at guard because they have Lance, assertions that Lance is great depth, etc. Just in generally browsing this board.

And every time, I'm asking myself just what in the heck Lance has done to inspire any confidence yet. Other than behave for an offseason.

Anyone want to take a crack at why I should be higher on Lance than I am? Not being sarcastic or baiting, I'm entirely interested and maybe just a bit uninformed on the kid.

Gamble1
12-13-2011, 08:57 PM
Anyone want to take a crack at why I should be higher on Lance than I am? Not being sarcastic or baiting, I'm entirely interested and maybe just a bit uninformed on the kid.
Any man who can quote himself in his own post deserves a reply.;)

I think if Larry Bird is high on him then maybe you should be. He is the guy who drafted him and the guy with probably has the most knowledge of the kids talents.

I see no reason why Bird should prop this kid up if it isn't for his basketball skills..... I mean it can't be because he's a milk drinker or anything right? Good locker room guy? NOPE.

So from the very little we have seen of him I think I would trust Bird who has seen him in practice and against good defensive players like Djones Brush and PG.

Pacer Fan
12-13-2011, 09:08 PM
stevekylerNBA Steve Kyler
RT @JerryZgoda: Jamal Crawford's agent Andy Miller just said by text that Wolves are no longer in the running for his client

Why did Andy not text this about Pacers?

Dr. Hibbert
12-13-2011, 09:14 PM
Any man who can quote himself in his own post deserves a reply.;)

I think if Larry Bird is high on him then maybe you should be. He is the guy who drafted him and the guy with probably has the most knowledge of the kids talents.

I see no reason why Bird should prop this kid up if it isn't for his basketball skills..... I mean it can't be because he's a milk drinker or anything right? Good locker room guy? NOPE.

So from the very little we have seen of him I think I would trust Bird who has seen him in practice and against good defensive players like Djones Brush and PG.

Had to quote myself, got bottom-paged into irrelevance!

I've heard coaches talk up players before. Or players talk up players (one Jamison Brewer). Guess I'm just more of an on-court guy. Show me on court, I'll buy in.

Scot Pollard
12-13-2011, 09:18 PM
stevekylerNBA Steve Kyler
RT @JerryZgoda: Jamal Crawford's agent Andy Miller just said by text that Wolves are no longer in the running for his client

Why did Andy not text this about Pacers?

I told myself not to get worked up over these rumors....

Eddie Gill
12-13-2011, 09:20 PM
If Crawford signs here, the Pacers should give him his own section and call it Crawfordsville.

FrenchConnection
12-13-2011, 09:22 PM
I told myself not to get worked up over these rumors....

Maybe we never were in the running? :whoknows:

Scot Pollard
12-13-2011, 09:28 PM
Maybe we never were in the running? :whoknows:

I'm not sure about that.

croz24
12-13-2011, 09:29 PM
No thanks on a 41%, 32yo "shooter" who can't play a lick of d and has a knack for also being a bit of a black hole offensively. And one good playoff series doesn't make up for a career 38% playoff field goal % imo. No idea what the fascination is with this guy. Because he's older makes him a good leader?

Malakai432
12-13-2011, 09:32 PM
I figured he was going to turn down that offer. He probably wants to go play somewhere else for more $$$ which I can't blame him. I've never been that big of a Crawford anyways. I personally really wanted the Mayo trade to come through but it looks like that's not happening.

peasouptexan7
12-13-2011, 09:32 PM
Go in with what we have right now. Would have liked to add Crawford or Mayo, but didn't think it was necessary. Taking minutes away from PG and Hill didn't seem to make much sense. Plus I would like to see what Lance could do given a little bit more playing time. Adding another quality guard would basically eliminate Lance seeing the floor for the most part.

Heisenberg
12-13-2011, 09:34 PM
If Crawford signs here, the Pacers should give him his own section and call it Crawfordsville.
I would have filed a protest.

Pacer Fan
12-13-2011, 09:35 PM
No thanks on a 41%, 32yo "shooter" who can't play a lick of d and has a knack for also being a bit of a black hole offensively. And one good playoff series doesn't make up for a career 38% playoff field goal % imo. No idea what the fascination is with this guy. Because he's older makes him a good leader?

Hummm, Because he's still better then Hill, Rush, Jones, Lance, Price and he can create his own shot and actually make one unlike the names mentioned.
I don't want to marry the guy, just rent him for the year!

FrenchConnection
12-13-2011, 09:40 PM
stevekylerNBA Steve Kyler
RT @JerryZgoda: Jamal Crawford's agent Andy Miller just said by text that Wolves are no longer in the running for his client

Why did Andy not text this about Pacers?

We don't know that he didn't. Zgoda is the Wolves beat writer for the Star Tribune. He probably only has Wolves FO sources.

croz24
12-13-2011, 09:44 PM
Hummm, Because he's still better then Hill, Rush, Jones, Lance, Price and he can create his own shot and actually make one unlike the names mentioned.
I don't want to marry the guy, just rent him for the year!

Given enough attempts, sure he can make one. Again the guy has made a career out of "getting his". You let Rush, Hill, Jones, etc take 14fga and they too would average 18+ppg and with a better fg%. Crawford is NOT an efficient offensive player and adding him to play alongside our young core will only hinder their development. Don't think it's wise for us to add an inefficient volume shooter at $5+mil.

BlueNGold
12-13-2011, 09:47 PM
Considering he is on the downside of his career, I have a difficult time believing Crawford can command much more than 5M/yr. Maybe 6M. I hope if he's still around the Pacers offer him another half million a year. Man, it's amazing how much these guys are paid.

FrenchConnection
12-13-2011, 09:52 PM
He seems to be considering three teams:

1) Sacto: Must be offering the most money
2) Portland: Closest to his hometown of Seattle
3) Knicks: He played most of his career there and provides a really good chance to win. Would kind of right a wrong.

We were offering the same money as Portland, but he would rather go almost home.

PR07
12-13-2011, 10:23 PM
Looks like we dropped the ball on this one.

Went from getting one of two useful potential combo guards, to getting none at all :(

Sollozzo
12-13-2011, 10:26 PM
Man, it's amazing how much these guys are paid.


When you try to comprehend it, it really does just blow you away. I can't even fathom what having that kind of money would be like.

Pacer Fan
12-13-2011, 10:34 PM
When you try to comprehend it, it really does just blow you away. I can't even fathom what having that kind of money would be like.

Deep breath....Relieved!

BlueNGold
12-13-2011, 10:34 PM
When you try to comprehend it, it really does just blow you away. I can't even fathom what having that kind of money would be like.

Yes. An "extra" half million a year...as if that's a 3% raise or something.

MillerTime
12-13-2011, 10:46 PM
Are we now going to focus our attention to Mayo??

McBob is gone, so that S&T will not work.

Scot Pollard
12-13-2011, 10:52 PM
Are we now going to focus our attention to Mayo??

McBob is gone, so that S&T will not work.

Bird has to do something and he seems determined to get one of the two.

If Crawford is gone soon, then I think he'll push for Mayo. Give Memphis trade exception, for starters.

Pacerized
12-13-2011, 11:05 PM
Crawford is proof that pro basketball players aren't always the most intelligent people. He thinks he can go elsewhere for less money and prove himself worthy of a larger contract on next years free agent market. At his age the money will only go downhill from here. He won't be getting another 5 mil contract offer again.

travmil
12-14-2011, 01:06 AM
So, missing out on Mayo and Crawford. If the Pacers stand pat, where does that leave them financially for next summer? Good enough to make an offer the Clips cant match on Gordon if he chooses not to extend there and becomes a RFA?

Hicks
12-14-2011, 01:14 AM
There is nothing the Clippers wouldn't match.

pezasied182
12-14-2011, 01:15 AM
So, missing out on Mayo and Crawford. If the Pacers stand pat, where does that leave them financially for next summer? Good enough to make an offer the Clips cant match on Gordon if he chooses not to extend there and becomes a RFA?

Only like $33mil on the books for next season, however that doesn't include cap holds for Hibbert and Hill (and also Rush, but I bet we'll renounce his rights immediately.) So yes, room for a max contract to Gordon where the team stand now, but my guess is the Clips immediately match it and Bird doesn't offer it in the first place.

However, if the Clips struggle this season I could see Sterling getting cheap again with his money. He spent a lot this offseason.

Kemo
12-14-2011, 01:30 AM
When you try to comprehend it, it really does just blow you away. I can't even fathom what having that kind of money would be like.

I couldn't even fathom what having 1/80th of 10 million dollars, in cold hard cash would be like... ; let alone millions...

NBA players are definitely among the most blessed of mortals ... lol

ECKrueger
12-14-2011, 02:12 AM
When you try to comprehend it, it really does just blow you away. I can't even fathom what having that kind of money would be like.

I saw in the remaining FA thread that Stephen Graham makes a million dollars. Stephen Graham. A million dollars.

daschysta
12-14-2011, 02:16 AM
Eh, i say just go into the season as we are. The trade deadline is still a long ways away, and we were gonna have a hard enough time juggling backcourt minutes as it is without someone like crawford coming over and expecting 30 MPG.

I'm comfortable with George and Hill that spot.

rexnom
12-14-2011, 02:29 AM
I saw in the remaining FA thread that Stephen Graham makes a million dollars. Stephen Graham. A million dollars.
This is a whole 'nother thread but, to play devil's advocate, Stephen Graham will likely make how much over his career? 10 million? More? Probably not. That's high. Assuming no taxes or no expenses (incredibly unrealistic), Graham now has to make that 10 million last from 20 until death. There is an NBA pension that kicks in at 62 but it is less than generous for players that have a small career (the average per annum under the last CBA was around 50K). Assuming that Graham lives until 80 years old, that's 10 million over 60 years, which is about 160K/year.

This is a basic model--players can certainly invest money. However, they are also likely to have expenses and serious tax deductions (I also may have gotten some of the nuances of the pension wrong--more knowledgeable folks can correct me).

To further complicate the story, there is a whole literature in behavioral economics about how people with lumpsum salaries or lottery winners are worse at savings and investment. Thus, we would expect players--regular folks that make most of their money in a short period of time--to be particularly bad at saving and investing their money for a variety of reasons.

Sure, NBA salaries are inflated. However, they aren't as inflated as they might seem at first glance. Definitely 1% level, but not as egregious as it might seem.

rexnom
12-14-2011, 02:31 AM
Crawford is proof that pro basketball players aren't always the most intelligent people. He thinks he can go elsewhere for less money and prove himself worthy of a larger contract on next years free agent market. At his age the money will only go downhill from here. He won't be getting another 5 mil contract offer again.
Or maybe he thinks his value is more likely to decrease on a team that's fairly crowded at the guard spots.

If I were him, I'd take Brandon Roy's spot in Portland for the $5mil, opt out after one year, and look to sign with some team (maybe even Portland) for more next year when even more teams will have cap space.

Bball
12-14-2011, 02:56 AM
This is a whole 'nother thread but, to play devil's advocate, Stephen Graham will likely make how much over his career? 10 million? More? Probably not. That's high. Assuming no taxes or no expenses (incredibly unrealistic), Graham now has to make that 10 million last from 20 until death. There is an NBA pension that kicks in at 62 but it is less than generous for players that have a small career (the average per annum under the last CBA was around 50K). Assuming that Graham lives until 80 years old, that's 10 million over 60 years, which is about 160K/year.

This is a basic model--players can certainly invest money. However, they are also likely to have expenses and serious tax deductions (I also may have gotten some of the nuances of the pension wrong--more knowledgeable folks can correct me).

To further complicate the story, there is a whole literature in behavioral economics about how people with lumpsum salaries or lottery winners are worse at savings and investment. Thus, we would expect players--regular folks that make most of their money in a short period of time--to be particularly bad at saving and investing their money for a variety of reasons.

Sure, NBA salaries are inflated. However, they aren't as inflated as they might seem at first glance. Definitely 1% level, but not as egregious as it might seem.

So players must earn a lifetime of money in a few seasons of basketball....What makes them entitled to to a lifetime of earnings in a few seasons? Why can't it be after their basketball career they have to do what everyone else does and find a job (or jobs) for the rest of their life? Why does basketball have to fund the rest of their lives?

rexnom
12-14-2011, 03:12 AM
So players must earn a lifetime of money in a few seasons of basketball....What makes them entitled to to a lifetime of earnings in a few seasons? Why can't it be after their basketball career they have to do what everyone else does and find a job (or jobs) for the rest of their life? Why does basketball have to fund the rest of their lives?
I think a lot of them do try to find jobs for the rest of their lives. Many go back to school.

That being said, we are the ones who entitle them. We create the market for professional sports. The salary cap and, by extension, salaries are based off of basketball-related income. Fan consumption is, more or less, basketball-related income.

Basketball players have a certain skillset for which there exists a lucrative market. It's really not different from talented lawyers or investment bankers. Inflated compared to our salaries, yes. Inflated compared to market value? Arguably, no.

Moreover, because they have to focus on maximize their basketball income, many of these guys are poorly equipped to do anything else. Here, we, as consumers, have indirectly created serious social pressures that leave many of these folks ill-equipped to handle the windfall that comes their way during their 20s and the task of finding post-basketball income after their 20s.