PDA

View Full Version : Pacers use amnesty on James Posey (post #6)



Doddage
12-12-2011, 12:50 PM
http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA


WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Pacers are still mulling amnesty on James Posey and $6.9 million left on his expiring contract, league sources said.

pathil275
12-12-2011, 12:54 PM
Only makes sense if they use the remainder of their cap space to acquire OJ Mayo and then intend to bid on someone like Billups. I would actually like that a lot.

IndyJones
12-12-2011, 12:54 PM
Unless the Pacers are expecting to be near the cap I do not see why they would want to do this. It might be Posey but expiring contracts are still good trading pieces aren't they?

Heisenberg
12-12-2011, 12:56 PM
Unless the Pacers are expecting to be near the cap I do not see why they do want to do this. It might be Posey but expiring contracts are still good trading pieces aren't they?If the player's useful. But when it's James Posey at over 7 million, just straight capspace is more valuable.

vnzla81
12-12-2011, 12:56 PM
How far down the cap are they going to be if they do this? can somebody check that out?

Heisenberg
12-12-2011, 12:59 PM
https://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/status/146288033455554560 (https://twitter.com/#%21/WojYahooNBA/status/146288033455554560)


The Pacers have decided amnesty James Posey and his $6.9M contract, league sources tell Y! Sports.

He gone.

tadscout
12-12-2011, 01:02 PM
@TimDonahue8p9s Tim Donahue
@WojYahooNBA Posey's deal is actually about $7.6mm. It had a 10% Trade Kicker added when he came over from NO w/ Collison.

.

wintermute
12-12-2011, 01:02 PM
Wow. Didn't expect that.

We originally had about $23m in cap space, minus $10m for West, about $1m each for Foster and Pendergraph (less for Pendergraph, more for Foster, but let's ballpark for now), then freed up $7m with Posey gone. We still have something like $18m in cap space, enough for a Nene bid.

This doesn't make sense unless we're planning big moves.

Trader Joe
12-12-2011, 01:04 PM
Hmmm, why would we need to clear up so much cap space and try to stock pile and back up all these positions? Interesting...

BPump33
12-12-2011, 01:05 PM
Give that Posey money to Dalembert and let's get this season rolling.....

Rogco
12-12-2011, 01:05 PM
Only reason we need to amnesty Posey is if we need the cap space right now... Hmm, max deal with Gordon in the works :)

Hoop
12-12-2011, 01:05 PM
https://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/status/146288033455554560 (https://twitter.com/#%21/WojYahooNBA/status/146288033455554560)



He gone.

:dance:

righteouscool
12-12-2011, 01:06 PM
Wow. Didn't expect that.

We originally had about $23m in cap space, minus $10m for West, about $1m each for Foster and Pendergraph (less for Pendergraph, more for Foster, but let's ballpark for now), then freed up $7m with Posey gone. We still have something like $18m in cap space, enough for a Nene bid.

This doesn't make sense unless we're planning big moves.

Maybe we're getting someone else from the Grizz?

Slick Pinkham
12-12-2011, 01:06 PM
an amnestied player still counts toward the salary floor, just not toward the salary cap. Thus I don't think that this necessarily means a big move is coming. It just frees a roster spot, but that spot can go to a developmental guy, like... Stanko?

cordobes
12-12-2011, 01:06 PM
Yes, Bird must have something else lined-up. Otherwise he wouldn't amnesty an expiring contract when he's not even at the cap, let alone tax zone.

Nene?

Sign and trade Nene for Roy Hibbert?

naptownmenace
12-12-2011, 01:06 PM
Maybe there's a larger trade in the works with Memphis?

I have a feeling this is going to be a very good week for the Pacers Franchise!

Aw Heck
12-12-2011, 01:07 PM
Maybe the Pacers do bid on Billups...

At best, he comes in and plays well for you. At worst, he retires. No skin off your back. At least it keeps him off of a rival team for the rest of the season.

Probably not. But that is a lot of cap room...

LoneGranger33
12-12-2011, 01:08 PM
And the plot thickens...

Pacemaker
12-12-2011, 01:08 PM
TimDonahue8p9s Tim Donahue
. @MikeWellsNBA Re: Posey Amnesty: Is that (a) just clearing the locker room and adding flex down the road or (b) Step 1 of something else?


I can't wait !!! :happydanc:devil::happydanc

Pacemaker
12-12-2011, 01:10 PM
Yes, Bird must have something else lined-up. Otherwise he wouldn't amnesty an expiring contract when he's not even at the cap, let alone tax zone.

Nene?

Sign and trade Nene for Roy Hibbert?

I hope not ! We should keep this recent smart trend about money!

Doddage
12-12-2011, 01:10 PM
So to sum it up: We traded Troy Murphy for Darren Collison and one year of James Posey.

wintermute
12-12-2011, 01:11 PM
Wow. Didn't expect that.

We originally had about $23m in cap space, minus $10m for West, about $1m each for Foster and Pendergraph (less for Pendergraph, more for Foster, but let's ballpark for now), then freed up $7m with Posey gone. We still have something like $18m in cap space, enough for a Nene bid.

This doesn't make sense unless we're planning big moves.

My numbers are badly off compared to what ESPN Insider had in the article CooperManning posted in the other thread. That one said we had $5m before, $12m now with Poset amnestied. Anyone know why? Is there a cap hold I'm missing? Or is Foster making more than I thought?

Shade
12-12-2011, 01:12 PM
This really doesn't make any sense unless another deal is in the works. Or unless Posey was an Artest-level problem in the locker room.

Trader Joe
12-12-2011, 01:12 PM
I know Bird likes M. Gasol.

Hibbert and JMac for Mayo and Gasol?

aceace
12-12-2011, 01:12 PM
Makes you wonder what's about to happen.

JB24
12-12-2011, 01:12 PM
Speculation or has he heard something?


@johnhollinger
Other Indy angle nobody is talking about: Could take run at Rodney Stuckey.


https://twitter.com/#!/johnhollinger/status/146290310824206336

Trader Joe
12-12-2011, 01:13 PM
I just don't see us dropping a potential valuable trading chip, an expiring contract, unless we had a reason to.

Heisenberg
12-12-2011, 01:14 PM
My numbers are badly off compared to what ESPN Insider had in the article CooperManning posted in the other thread. That one said we had $5m before, $12m now with Poset amnestied. Anyone know why? Is there a cap hold I'm missing? Or is Foster making more than I thought?
Solo? Not that his hold'd be big enough to make up that difference.

Marlin
12-12-2011, 01:14 PM
Didn't expect it, you guys are right, it wouldn't make sense if it weren't for some other move. Big move, we have again a boatload of cap space now.

Too bad for Posey that my memories of him in our jersey will be forever linked to the former coach and his irrational love for the new stretch 4.

Trader Joe
12-12-2011, 01:15 PM
Speculation or has he heard something?



https://twitter.com/#!/johnhollinger/status/146290310824206336

I don't see any purpose that Stuckey could serve on this team, especially at the price we would likely have to give to get him. I'm more interested in the fact that Paul to the Clippers is dying and that Hollinger said yesterday he would be writing about another possible angle to the West signing.

Aw Heck
12-12-2011, 01:15 PM
Speculation or has he heard something?



https://twitter.com/#!/johnhollinger/status/146290310824206336
Probably just speculating. It's something the Pacers COULD do. I'd rather have Mayo than Stuckey.

pacergod2
12-12-2011, 01:17 PM
I don't see any purpose that Stuckey could serve on this team, especially at the price we would likely have to give to get him. I'm more interested in the fact that Paul to the Clippers is dying and that Hollinger said yesterday he would be writing about another possible angle to the West signing.

I could see a three way deal between NO and us with Memphis as the facilitator, so they can keep Chris Paul out of the West.

wintermute
12-12-2011, 01:18 PM
Speculation or has he heard something?

https://twitter.com/#!/johnhollinger/status/146290310824206336

Interesting. And expensive. Stuckey is asking for $10m per.


Solo? Not that his hold'd be big enough to make up that difference.

Nope, his cap hold is just under $2m according to Sham. Maybe Jeff is making $6m for one year instead of the vet min I assumed? It's in-line with his previous salary.

PacerGuy
12-12-2011, 01:21 PM
@johnhollinger
Other Indy angle nobody is talking about: Could take run at Rodney Stuckey.

Stuckey, Mayo, Lance, Hill
Not a true PG among them, not a true 2 among them.

I like Stuckey, but other then aquiring assets, what gives?

Pacer Fan
12-12-2011, 01:24 PM
37mil beginning team salary leaving approx. 21mil

Add Contracts
West 10mil
Pend 750k
Mayo 5.6mil
Foster?
53.35 without Foster

Subtract Contracts
Rush 3mil
Posey 7mil

43.35 mil
Approx. 15mil left without Fosters contract

I believe Price can be cut for 200k, 200k is all that is guaranteed

xBulletproof
12-12-2011, 01:24 PM
We were 21 mil under the cap. We sign West we're 11 under. Pendergraph ... 1 mil? so we're 10 under. Amnesty Posey and we're back to 17/18 million under. How much cap space we have all depends on how much Foster is making but it's a large amount again.

I'm .. curious.

Hicks
12-12-2011, 01:25 PM
It's interesting. I'm obviously as curious as anybody to see what we do, but it could just be done to give us maximum cap flexibility between now and the trade deadline. Anyone else we'd amnesty next year makes less than 3 million, so it's practically worthless after this. It makes sense to at least open up more options.

vnzla81
12-12-2011, 01:27 PM
Give that Posey money to Dalembert and let's get this season rolling.....

I like this but the rumors is that Dalembert is fat reason why some teams are not pushing hard for him.

Hicks
12-12-2011, 01:27 PM
I dismissed it at first, but then again I don't know the rules for certain: If your restricted free agent signs an offer sheet with a potential new team, and then you match that offer to keep him, could you still use him in a sign-and-trade based on that offer sheet's $ numbers?

Heisenberg
12-12-2011, 01:27 PM
One of my favorite stats; James Posey took 241 shots as a Pacer. 88% of them were 3s.

docpaul
12-12-2011, 01:28 PM
It's got to be a big. It's the only thing that makes sense for this roster, unless key members of our core are about to be traded.

Pritchard's involvement with the team makes things a little more volatile, IMO.

Ballerzfan
12-12-2011, 01:33 PM
I know Bird likes M. Gasol.

Hibbert and JMac for Mayo and Gasol?

I think you'd have to toss in a 1st to get their attention, but I'd be all for it.

90'sNBARocked
12-12-2011, 01:34 PM
I think there is nothing to read into this other than the fact that Possey had a run in with Vogel last year and they would rather give him the "Tinsley treatment" and keep him away from the locker room

smart move in my opinion, but I doubt it is part of a bigger plan, hope I am wrong though

vnzla81
12-12-2011, 01:34 PM
By the way I would like to say thanks to Larry Bird for getting rid of this scrub, I wasn't really looking forward to see him on the bench, anytime I got to see him the JOB era came back to my mind. :thankyou: Larry.

CooperManning
12-12-2011, 01:35 PM
We might be reading too much into this. We need to clear a little cap room to facilitate the OJ deal and maybe sign a backup big. There's really no reason to amnesty Dahntay or Rush and Posey has no trade value, so we just decided to get it over with.

I'll be surprised if bigger moves than OJ are at play.

Heisenberg
12-12-2011, 01:38 PM
Amnestied guys count towards the salary floor?

PaulGeorge
12-12-2011, 01:38 PM
The Indiana Pacers have decided to amnesty swingman James Posey, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports.

Posey came over from the New Orleans Hornets when the Pacers landed Darren Collison, but the veteran couldn't even stay in their rotation last season.

The Pacers will save $6.7 million this season. However, this was their lone chance to use the amnesty clause for the length of the new CBA, so they had better hope that one of their top-contract earners in the future doesn't go down with a career-ending injury or turn into a flop.

CooperManning
12-12-2011, 01:40 PM
Amnestied guys count towards the salary floor?

Yes, I believe so.

31andonly
12-12-2011, 01:43 PM
Jim O'Brien probably doesn't know what the world's coming to...

Hicks
12-12-2011, 01:44 PM
Wells is speculating that maybe this clears the way for the Mayo trade without sending Brandon along. Memphis doesn't want another guard, and we clear a roster spot and some money even with Rush still present.

Heisenberg
12-12-2011, 01:46 PM
Wells is speculating that maybe this clears the way for the Mayo trade without sending Brandon along. Memphis doesn't want another guard, and we clear a roster spot and some money even with Rush still present.
But why would we even need to do that? Unless we gave Jeff a lot more than we all assumed?

wintermute
12-12-2011, 01:49 PM
count55 says we have some $14m in cap space now:



Tim Donahue @TimDonahue8p9s

Pacers now have something close to $14mm in cap room, again. If they can get MEM to take Rush, they'll still have around $11mm.


So Foster's deal is around $4m?

That's still significant space, and we could have absorbed Mayo ($5m) without Posey's amnesty or sending Rush back.

xBulletproof
12-12-2011, 01:54 PM
If they amnestied Posey so they could keep Rush out of the deal with Memphis, that means he plans on adding a player that will cost money. Not a minimum player. We don't need to include Rush to sign near minimum players.

RichardHawes
12-12-2011, 01:54 PM
Its insane to think back about the contracts of Tinsley, Murphy, and Dunleavy and where we stand now...I haven't been this excited to be a Pacers fan in a good while

CableKC
12-12-2011, 01:56 PM
Wells is speculating that maybe this clears the way for the Mayo trade without sending Brandon along. Memphis doesn't want another guard, and we clear a roster spot and some money even with Rush still present.
Makes sense.....I'm guessing that this also gives the Pacers more opportunities closer to the deadline.

As for BRush not being included in any deal going to Memphis...I'm not really surprised. The Pacers could try to include him...but it makes no sense for the Grizzlies to take him on.

I'm not as concerned about the Pacers moving BRush. IMHO....BRush could be sent to any Team for a 2nd round pick...some Team that needs a 3pt shooting WingMan that can defend. My total guess as to which Team Bird should call up is the Bobcats. They need some depth at the Wing, need some scoring and have very few 3pt threats. I'd easily send him to the Bobcats for a 2nd round pick.

D-BONE
12-12-2011, 01:57 PM
Damn this is suspenseful!

Heisenberg
12-12-2011, 01:58 PM
I'm honestly surprised the Bulls haven't asked about BRush. He pretty much does well exactly what they'd ask of him. Division rival and all, but still.

Eleazar
12-12-2011, 01:59 PM
Simply put it was to add a roster spot and get rid of Posey. The only logical reason to include Rush in the Mayo deal was to open a spot. Since Memphis doesn't want Rush the best way to clear a spot is to amnesty Posey. They defiantly have a plan for that spot, but that plan could be someday thing as small as signing a 3rd string center. Don't let gyour imaginations get the better of you.

Wage
12-12-2011, 02:03 PM
I think we may be reading too much into the Posey amnesty.Posey was the only bad contract on the books (damn that feels good to say) so we were either going to use it on him, or not at all.

Keeping Posey has no upside whatsoever. Using the amnesty opens a roster spot, clears cap, gets him out of the locker room, and adds a possibility however small that we may not have to pay his full contract.

D-BONE
12-12-2011, 02:04 PM
Simply put it was to add a roster spot and get rid of Posey. The only logical reason to include Rush in the Mayo deal was to open a spot. Since Memphis doesn't want Rush the best way to clear a spot is to amnesty Posey. They defiantly have a plan for that spot, but that plan could be someday thing as small as signing a 3rd string center. Don't let gyour imaginations get the better of you.

You're probably right...

but now that we've cleared out some more $, we might as well talk to Dalembert.

CableKC
12-12-2011, 02:06 PM
Simply put it was to add a roster spot and get rid of Posey. The only logical reason to include Rush in the Mayo deal was to open a spot. Since Memphis doesn't want Rush the best way to clear a spot is to amnesty Posey. They defiantly have a plan for that spot, but that plan could be someday thing as small as signing a 3rd string center. Don't let gyour imaginations get the better of you.
Sounds about right.

If this is a move to clear space ( both roster and SalaryCap space ) to get Mayo....I can totally see Bird sitting on the remaining Cap space to see if there are any opportunities before the Trade Deadline while continuing to shop BRush for a 2nd round pick.

Despite what many of us think of BRush.....he can come onto any Team and provide about 15mpg of solid perimeter defense, above average rebounding for a Guard and hit an open 3pt shot. IMHO...some Team will need that...add in the likely cost of a 2nd round pick...and I don't see him in a Pacer uniform beyond the Trade deadline.

At this point...assuming that Mayo is coming to Indy.....any trade that is made is to improve the likely lineup of DC/PG/Granger/West/Hibbert/GH/Mayo/Hansbrough/Foster. After adding Mayo and West.....we are tapped out at all of our positions EXCEPT for the Backup Center spot ( assuming that Foster isn't going to play 20 mpg the entire season...which I can't see happening ).

The only moves that we can make at this point is to either ADD a Backup Center or improve on any of our current rotational Players.

wintermute
12-12-2011, 02:10 PM
I'm honestly surprised the Bulls haven't asked about BRush. He pretty much does well exactly what they'd ask of him. Division rival and all, but still.

They already signed Rip though.

Also, there's no sense using the amnesty on Posey just because he's a bad contract. If we bought him out normally we'd actually get a chance to save some money on a buyout. Amnesty takes him off the cap but Pacers still have to pay him full value (I doubt anyone bids on him). So we must plan to use the cap space at some point this season.

CooperManning
12-12-2011, 02:10 PM
You're probably right...

but now that we've cleared out some more $, we might as well talk to Dalembert.

If we get Mayo, we don't have the money for Dalembert, considering the kind of deals big men have been getting this off-season.

We need to save $ for re-signing Roy and George Hill. David West + OJ Mayo + Foster + Pendergraph = about $20 mil. Sure, we had a lot of cap room going into the off-season, but it disappears quickly.

CableKC
12-12-2011, 02:14 PM
You're probably right...

but now that we've cleared out some more $, we might as well talk to Dalembert.
He's not going to come here to play 18-20 mpg or split time with Hibbert. On top of that, I don't want to pay him that much $$$ to play between 18 to 24 mpg.

CooperManning
12-12-2011, 02:14 PM
They already signed Rip though.

Also, there's no sense using the amnesty on Posey just because he's a bad contract. If we bought him out normally we'd actually get a chance to save some money on a buyout. Amnesty takes him off the cap but Pacers still have to pay him full value (I doubt anyone bids on him). So we must plan to use the cap space at some point this season.

Why would Posey take a buyout for anything less than 100% of his contract though? Doubt he's trying to go to Miami like a lot of buyout candidates. He's probably trying to go to the Bahamas.

wintermute
12-12-2011, 02:19 PM
We need to save $ for re-signing Roy and George Hill. David West + OJ Mayo + Foster + Pendergraph = about $20 mil. Sure, we had a lot of cap room going into the off-season, but it disappears quickly.

Technically, we don't need to save cap to re-sign Hibbert and Hill because we have their Bird rights. But it's true that we'll want to stay under the tax ($70m). If we figure Hibbert costing at least $12m and Hill $5m, then we shouldn't spend more than $53m this season, maybe $50m to be safe. That's close to where we'll be with West and Mayo.

So if we make any more big moves, it would probably be for one year deals. Like a large amnesty bid on Billups perhaps. Nothing else makes a lot of sense.

Sandman21
12-12-2011, 02:31 PM
gwashburn14 gary washburn
Agent Mark Bartelstein said E'Twaun Moore expected to practice today for first time and he will gauge #celtics interest in one James Posey
11 minutes ago
Retweeted by TimDonahue8p9s

Celts' David West fallback plan? :D

presto123
12-12-2011, 03:15 PM
JOB will let Posey sleep on his couch until he gets back on his feet:laugh:

rock747
12-12-2011, 03:29 PM
Speaking of JOB has he said anything to the media since his firing? What's he doing now? Managing a 7/11?

Heisenberg
12-12-2011, 03:35 PM
Speaking of JOB has he said anything to the media since his firing? What's he doing now? Managing a 7/11?
Not a peep. Which I respect him very much for.

31andonly
12-12-2011, 03:39 PM
gwashburn14 gary washburn
Agent Mark Bartelstein said E'Twaun Moore expected to practice today for first time and he will gauge #celtics interest in one James Posey
11 minutes ago
Retweeted by TimDonahue8p9s

Celts' David West fallback plan? :D

Well...he's good in defending the post. Ask Amare!

Strummer
12-12-2011, 04:02 PM
Maybe Memphis wants Posey but not at his contract value. Perhaps they asked us to amnesty him as part of the trade being discussed, knowing that no one else is likely to bid on him. They could claim him for a token amount. Low risk veteran to add to their roster without adding much salary.

Farfetched? Yes.

Kemo
12-12-2011, 04:03 PM
Yes, Bird must have something else lined-up. Otherwise he wouldn't amnesty an expiring contract when he's not even at the cap, let alone tax zone.

Nene?

Sign and trade Nene for Roy Hibbert?

HELL NO.. :censored::censored:

Team Indy
12-12-2011, 04:15 PM
I think we may be reading too much into the Posey amnesty.Posey was the only bad contract on the books (damn that feels good to say) so we were either going to use it on him, or not at all.

Keeping Posey has no upside whatsoever. Using the amnesty opens a roster spot, clears cap, gets him out of the locker room, and adds a possibility however small that we may not have to pay his full contract.

There's no reason to clear cap space if there are no further planned moves. If a roster is needed, or if Posey is disruptive, just waive him, at full salary if necessary. Using the amnesty clause for the sake of it is wasteful, especially if next season, the team needs to clear a couple of million to make a max bid for a player they do like.

Heisenberg
12-12-2011, 04:18 PM
There's no reason to clear cap space if there are no further planned moves. If a roster is needed, or if Posey is disruptive, just waive him, at full salary if necessary. Using the amnesty clause for the sake of it is wasteful, especially if next season, the team needs to clear a couple of million to make a max bid for a player they do like.
The amnesty clause can only be used on contracts on your books pre-lockout. The only other candidate that doesn't make peanuts is Danny, and that's obviously not happening.

Strummer
12-12-2011, 04:19 PM
There's no reason to clear cap space if there are no further planned moves. If a roster is needed, or if Posey is disruptive, just waive him, at full salary if necessary. Using the amnesty clause for the sake of it is wasteful, especially if next season, the team needs to clear a couple of million to make a max bid for a player they do like.

If you "just waive him" then what happens when a great deal comes along and you need that $7 million of cap space to fit it in? Doh!

But I agree, I probably would have waited til closer to the amnesty deadline (friday I think) unless something is going on now.

Team Indy
12-12-2011, 04:24 PM
The amnesty clause can only be used on contracts on your books pre-lockout. The only other candidate that doesn't make peanuts is Danny, and that's obviously not happening.

The player I had in mind is Jones. Although it's only a few million, it could make a difference.

Team Indy
12-12-2011, 04:26 PM
If you "just waive him" then what happens when a great deal comes along and you need that $7 million of cap space to fit it in? Doh!

But I agree, I probably would have waited til closer to the amnesty deadline (friday I think) unless something is going on now.

I think we agree that it should only be used if something is imminent. I think the teams that have used it thus far are those that either had an imminent deal or were above the luxury tax line.

Naptown_Seth
12-12-2011, 04:47 PM
Keeping Posey has no upside whatsoever.
When Danny goes down with a knee injury and you want to make his contract go off the books you'll see an upside, heaven forbid.


You still pay him and it has no impact on the salary basement. You have tons of cap space.

There is absolutely, positively no GOOD reason to amnesty him unless you need the extra cap space or the roster spot and need it right away.

2 months from now you trade his deal or amnesty him as needed. Or you are hoping someone grabs him before he clears (they won't) to relieve your salary burden a little.



The Pacers just folded when they were only being asked to check or raise.




edit - are there time windows per season for amnesty? They have 2 years, but are there blackout periods on that?

What if you trade Posey's salary for a match and want to amnesty someone else to get to the cap space, like Hill if something flopped? You never give up options for free, there has to be a gain or you might as well stay put and wait.

naptownmenace
12-12-2011, 04:54 PM
When Danny goes down with a knee injury and you want to make his contract go off the books you'll see an upside, heaven forbid.


You still pay him and it has no impact on the salary basement. You have tons of cap space.

There is absolutely, positively no GOOD reason to amnesty him unless you need the extra cap space or the roster spot and need it right away.

2 months from now you trade his deal or amnesty him as needed. Or you are hoping someone grabs him before he clears (they won't) to relieve your salary burden a little.



The Pacers just folded when they were only being asked to check or raise.

That's awfully premature. We don't even know the reason they did it and you're declaring it a failure.

If Danny does go down with an injury, they'll at least have another roster spot available to sign another SF if necessary. However, I think they did it because they have more than one FA signing coming or trades and needed the roster spot.

Heisenberg
12-12-2011, 05:01 PM
There is a window of when you can amnesty guys. No one knows the specifics for next year apparently. This year you only get a week to use it.

We also have the stretch provision, which can only be used on post-lockout contracts. You can't just flat drop a guy's cap hit with it, but you can waive him and it's a contract length x 2 + 1 deal. So say we want to use it on West next season (just an example), the remaing $10.2 million would be stretched out to 3 years with equal cap hits.

BillS
12-12-2011, 05:02 PM
edit - are there time windows per season for amnesty? They have 2 years, but are there blackout periods on that?

Yes, period for this year ends the 16th.

Justin Tyme
12-12-2011, 05:07 PM
Interesting. And expensive. Stuckey is asking for $10m per.



Maybe Jeff is making $6m for one year instead of the vet min I assumed? It's in-line with his previous salary.


If it is, I'll go absolutely flipp'n ballistic!! You'll think ckill was mellow compared to me.

count55
12-12-2011, 05:15 PM
By amnestying Posey now, you create $7.6mm in actual cap space that can be used at any point between now and the trade deadline in March. The actual cap space is far more attractive to a trading partner than Posey's expiring contract, because the cap relief is instant.

It gives the Pacers about $14mm in cap space again, which allows them to remain a potential partner in every trade floating, and potentially chase almost every FA still available. If they didn't want Posey to come to camp, and they didn't see a potential amnesty (which they probably don't, as they have only $18mm in guaranteed contracts in 2013/14 right now), this was the best way to maximize the amnesty.

It creates the greatest amount of flexibility for the longest period of time.

wintermute
12-12-2011, 05:19 PM
count55, do you have numbers for Foster and Pendergraph's contracts? How'd you come up with $14m?

count55
12-12-2011, 05:29 PM
count55, do you have numbers for Foster and Pendergraph's contracts? How'd you come up with $14m?

I do not, but I'm ballparking based on the reported $6mm remaining (per Wells) plus the $7.6mm on Posey's deal.

It's give or take $1mm.

Wage
12-12-2011, 05:40 PM
When Danny goes down with a knee injury and you want to make his contract go off the books you'll see an upside, heaven forbid.


You still pay him and it has no impact on the salary basement. You have tons of cap space.

There is absolutely, positively no GOOD reason to amnesty him unless you need the extra cap space or the roster spot and need it right away.



I had actually considered the injury angle, but the only way we would amnesty Granger would be if his career were over. I'm pretty sure insurance kicks in then anyway doesen't it?

It's really pretty simple. Posey was the only option, and it's better to have cap space and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

clownskull
12-12-2011, 05:57 PM
If the player's useful. But when it's James Posey at over 7 million, just straight capspace is more valuable.

yeah posey is about as useful as a short troy murphy minus the offense.
like many others, i suspect this is so we can go after another player before the season starts.

wintermute
12-12-2011, 06:04 PM
I do not, but I'm ballparking based on the reported $6mm remaining (per Wells) plus the $7.6mm on Posey's deal.

It's give or take $1mm.

Ok, so the 2 Jeffs are making something like $6m combined? I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Pendergraph has a minimum deal, so that means Foster is still pulling in a market rate contract. I had thought Jeff F was getting the minimum too.

pacer4ever
12-12-2011, 06:57 PM
Ok, so the 2 Jeffs are making something like $6m combined? I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Pendergraph has a minimum deal, so that means Foster is still pulling in a market rate contract. I had thought Jeff F was getting the minimum too.

why would jeff take the min. When other contenders were offering the MLE ?? That would just be stupid on his part.

speakout4
12-12-2011, 07:09 PM
By amnestying Posey now, you create $7.6mm in actual cap space that can be used at any point between now and the trade deadline in March. The actual cap space is far more attractive to a trading partner than Posey's expiring contract, because the cap relief is instant.

It gives the Pacers about $14mm in cap space again, which allows them to remain a potential partner in every trade floating, and potentially chase almost every FA still available. If they didn't want Posey to come to camp, and they didn't see a potential amnesty (which they probably don't, as they have only $18mm in guaranteed contracts in 2013/14 right now), this was the best way to maximize the amnesty.

It creates the greatest amount of flexibility for the longest period of time.
You mean that FAs won't consider the pacers because they don't have the full cap space now? The pacers have let it be known that Posey is gone if the right FA comes along? This is like having your money in the bank and not in cash. Everyone knows Posey is highly amnestiable.

I just don't understand why they are not waiting. Posey does not have to be told not to report to camp. You don't carp about losing 30M and then **** 7M away for no obvious reason. i hope an obvious reason becomes clearer.

Larry Staverman
12-12-2011, 07:37 PM
With all due respect I will trust the combo of Bird, Morway and Pritchard to make the right decision, as to on whom and when to use the amnesty clause, over anyone on this board!

Pacer Fan
12-12-2011, 07:39 PM
johnhollinger John Hollinger
I suspect the James Posey auction will be less eventful.

Ya Think?

speakout4
12-12-2011, 08:05 PM
With all due respect I will trust the combo of Bird, Morway and Pritchard to make the right decision, as to on whom and when to use the amnesty clause, over anyone on this board!
That's what we do on this board, question everything and argue everything. We're not lemmings.

Hicks
12-12-2011, 11:36 PM
If Danny had an injury so bad you wanted to amnesty him, I think his salary comes (mostly?) off the books eventually anyway due to his medical status. Someone might look up what happened with Yao Ming's contract.

RichardHawes
12-12-2011, 11:38 PM
If Danny had an injury so bad you wanted to amnesty him, I think his salary comes (mostly?) off the books eventually anyway due to his medical status. Someone might look up what happened with Yao Ming's contract.

I believe this is true...Remember the Darius Miles backlash and how Portland was irate that they were not going to get the relief if Darius played 10 games

pacer4ever
12-12-2011, 11:45 PM
If Danny had an injury so bad you wanted to amnesty him, I think his salary comes (mostly?) off the books eventually anyway due to his medical status. Someone might look up what happened with Yao Ming's contract.

He would have to retire. Then he would get medical retirement and a year after he retires his salary goes off the books. But I really hope he never gets injured nothing but healthy ball for DG please.

jeffg-body
12-12-2011, 11:48 PM
I honestly cannot think of another player to use the amnesty on. Good move if this happens.