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View Full Version : Pacers ready to swoop in if Celtics canít land West



diamonddave00
12-11-2011, 02:15 AM
No link

MillerTime
12-11-2011, 02:20 AM
I've always been for signing West (as long as the price tag is reasonable)

tadscout
12-11-2011, 02:20 AM
A 2 year deal would make him a very valuable trade asset after this season. (S&T or at the deadline)

Hypnotiq
12-11-2011, 02:23 AM
2 year deal is fine anything more and no

3 8 thee great t h
12-11-2011, 02:23 AM
Cool with me

pezasied182
12-11-2011, 02:23 AM
I would be happy if we signed West to a two year deal. There's really nothing bad that can come of it. If he produces, we could probably extend it, if he doesn't he's gone after this year probably. He shouldn't be part of our long term plans anyways, and if we're going to make a FA move, this isn't a bad one to make.

Heisenberg
12-11-2011, 02:23 AM
Two years honestly sounds too good to be true, West's market must really be pretty small. Like tadscout said, he immediately becomes a valuable trade asset, and if he had to take a two year deal he'd have to have a chip on his shoulder.

The Boston scenario is 3/24-25, what would we want to offer? 2/20-22? That's an all around win for me.

ChristianDudley
12-11-2011, 02:26 AM
I'm hoping West becomes a Pacer! Think we completely stop negotiating with Landry if that happens, or do we go after both of them?!?! lol...Well, finally we have some new news!

Gremz
12-11-2011, 02:27 AM
I can dig it.

Aw Heck
12-11-2011, 02:27 AM
West for 2 years is a great deal for the Pacers. Also nice to hear they've been negotiating with Landry, just in case they have to move Tyler...

MillerTime
12-11-2011, 02:28 AM
Worst comes to worst we can amnesty him (?)

diamonddave00
12-11-2011, 02:28 AM
I've wanted West all along probably would be a 2 year 18- 19 mil deal with a team option 3rd year. On back to back and 3 games in 3 nights Tyler would see more minutes I would guess would be the plan in the beginning.

graphic-er
12-11-2011, 02:29 AM
well that's a pretty clever move by Bird right there, yes it is.

tadscout
12-11-2011, 02:30 AM
Worst comes to worst we can amnesty him (?)

No - Teams can only amnesty players they had on their roster before the lockout...

pezasied182
12-11-2011, 02:30 AM
Worst comes to worst we can amnesty him (?)

You can't amnesty a player you didn't have on your roster before the new CBA was filed.

diamonddave00
12-11-2011, 02:31 AM
I can't see where the Hornets could deal Jermaine's 6.2 mil contract expecially when he has stated he'd retire if he wasn't traded to a contender.

rock747
12-11-2011, 02:35 AM
A two year deal is about ideal if we sign West. West doesn't overly excite me though.

Day-V
12-11-2011, 02:35 AM
You can't amnesty a player you didn't have on your roster before the new CBA was filed.

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3 8 thee great t h
12-11-2011, 02:40 AM
I'm hoping West becomes a Pacer! Think we completely stop negotiating with Landry if that happens, or do we go after both of them?!?! lol...Well, finally we have some new news!


U do realize we only have three big men on the roster right? We are probably going to sign both and call it a day sounds pretty nice to me.

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 02:45 AM
You know people are used to mediocrity when they get happy of signing an old guy that we don't even know if he can play back to backs and another PF that's not even an improvement to what we already have, great...

tadscout
12-11-2011, 02:47 AM
U do realize we only have three big men on the roster right? We are probably going to sign both and call it a day sounds pretty nice to me.

We have four... and why have Landry who can only play PF as a third stringer? - We only get him if we don't sign West, or we have to trade Tyler.

rock747
12-11-2011, 02:50 AM
A resolution tommorow.... interesting.

tadscout
12-11-2011, 02:51 AM
You know people are used to mediocrity when they get happy of signing an old guy that we don't even know if he can play back to backs and another PF that's not even an improvement to what we already have, great...

You do realize he would have to pass a physical... and he has been working out at full strength...

Also does it make the Celtics mediocre for wanting him?

TheDon
12-11-2011, 02:56 AM
Do you think this would **** off the celtics (not that that matters) but they might be a little less apt to give us their starting point guard if we take David West option away from them. Although if this is accurate then my guess is the Nene ship has sailed.

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 02:56 AM
You do realize he would have to pass a physical... and he has been working out at full strength...

Also does it make the Celtics mediocre for wanting him?

Mike Dunleavy, JO and many other players passed the physical before, that doesn't mean much, getting a guy for two years as another stop gap is BS.

Pacer Fan
12-11-2011, 03:06 AM
We have four... and why have Landry who can only play PF as a third stringer? - We only get him if we don't sign West, or we have to trade Tyler.

We may have 4 on the roster, but Foster isn't reliable and Pendergraph, we have no clue what he can give. I'm sure he is on a very small, non-guaranteed contract. So, I'd say we have 2 1/2 legit bigs. We need another Center for sure and another PF.

Hibbert / ? / Foster
Hans / ? / Pendergraph

CooperManning
12-11-2011, 03:08 AM
Bird and Morway trying to get West or Landry on a two-year deal means they're doing exactly what many of us thought they were doing: putting together a solid team for two years while letting our young players develop.

Over the next two seasons, our core will get experience and we'll enjoy the fruits of being a team under the cap. In 2 years, West or Landry will come off the books and we'll have enough money to sign Smith, Millsap, or perhaps a bigger name in a sign and trade (Ibaka's a RFA that year).

Not a bad strategy at all if you ask me, especially with this shortened season. I know many of you disagree (;) vnzla) but it appears that this is the direction we're heading.

tadscout
12-11-2011, 03:09 AM
We may have 4 on the roster, but Foster isn't reliable and Pendergraph, we have no clue what he can give. I'm sure he is on a very small, non-guaranteed contract. So, I'd say we have 2 1/2 legit bigs. We need another Center for sure and another PF.

Hibbert / ? / Foster
Hans / ? / Pendergraph

Thus why I said we only sign Landry if we don't sign West or have to trade Tyler.

Can only realistically have 2 of West, Hans, and Landry.

pezasied182
12-11-2011, 03:09 AM
We may have 4 on the roster, but Foster isn't reliable and Pendergraph, we have no clue what he can give. I'm sure he is on a very small, non-guaranteed contract. So, I'd say we have 2 1/2 legit bigs. We need another Center for sure and another PF.

Hibbert / ? / Foster
Hans / ? / Pendergraph

Yea I'm definitely not thrilled if the lineup was just the four you mention above without the question marks. We need another PF even if it's just a backup.

Also, I don't see the problem with stop gaps right now. This team is built to be good down the road, not right now, and I feel like signing West to a two year deal is better than signing Landry/Nene to a four. If the Bulls really swing Howard, we need to make a play for Gibson IMO.

tadscout
12-11-2011, 03:11 AM
Bird and Morway trying to get West or Landry on a two-year deal means they're doing exactly what many of us thought they were doing: putting together a solid team for two years while letting our young players develop.

Over the next two seasons, our core will get experience and we'll enjoy the fruits of being a team under the cap. In 2 years, West or Landry will come off the books and we'll have enough money to sign Smith, Millsap, or perhaps a bigger name in a sign and trade (Ibaka's a RFA that year).

Not a bad strategy at all if you ask me, especially with this shortened season. I know many of you disagree (;) vnzla) but it appears that this is the direction we're heading.

:iagree:

pizza guy
12-11-2011, 03:12 AM
Do you think this would **** off the celtics (not that that matters) but they might be a little less apt to give us their starting point guard if we take David West option away from them. Although if this is accurate then my guess is the Nene ship has sailed.

Not necessarily. If the Pacers are able to sign DWest, it will be because the Celtics and Hornets just couldn't work out a deal. It won't be the Pacers' fault.

I'd be OK with West on a 2 year deal. That gives us a lot of flexibility moving forward, and if he plays well and we keep him, we're one step closer.

CableKC
12-11-2011, 03:17 AM
I'm lost here.....WTF is going on here?

I don't see how the whole CP3 deal can affect what the Hornets and Celtics would do....someone please explain in simple terms for me what on earth is going on here.

xBulletproof
12-11-2011, 03:23 AM
I'm lost here.....WTF is going on here?

I don't see how the whole CP3 deal can affect what the Hornets and Celtics would do....someone please explain in simple terms for me what on earth is going on here.

When you become a free agent you don't just disappear off of a teams cap. They have to renounce their rights to you. West made 8 mil last year, so he's probably currently withholding 9 million of New Orleans cap space. To complete the CP3 trade, they probably need that space. When you renounce a players rights, you cannot sign and trade that player any longer.

CooperManning
12-11-2011, 03:24 AM
I'm lost here.....WTF is going on here?

I don't see how the whole CP3 deal can affect what the Hornets and Celtics would do....someone please explain in simple terms for me what on earth is going on here.

Basically, it sounds like the West deal could fall apart because they might not be able to get the right pieces to fit in the sign and trade. Also, it might not be enough money for West.

He might like the idea of taking a 2 year deal with us, for say $10.5-11 mil/year, so he can prove his knee is healthy, then get one more decent contract somewhere else. Wouldn't be a bad idea.

Also, if the Celtics somehow land CP3, I don't think they can afford West.

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 03:27 AM
Bird and Morway trying to get West or Landry on a two-year deal means they're doing exactly what many of us thought they were doing: putting together a solid team for two years while letting our young players develop.

Over the next two seasons, our core will get experience and we'll enjoy the fruits of being a team under the cap. In 2 years, West or Landry will come off the books and we'll have enough money to sign Smith, Millsap, or perhaps a bigger name in a sign and trade (Ibaka's a RFA that year).

Not a bad strategy at all if you ask me, especially with this shortened season. I know many of you disagree (;) vnzla) but it appears that this is the direction we're heading.

Nice so instead of a five years plan now we are extending it to 7? Yeah good luck in another city by then.

tadscout
12-11-2011, 03:29 AM
Basically, it sounds like the West deal could fall apart because they might not be able to get the right pieces to fit in the sign and trade.

Mainly b/c there's no third team that wants JO it sounds like.

Pacer Fan
12-11-2011, 03:31 AM
Basically, it sounds like the West deal could fall apart because they might not be able to get the right pieces to fit in the sign and trade. Also, it might not be enough money for West.

He might like the idea of taking a 2 year deal with us, for say $10.5-11 mil/year, so he can prove his knee is healthy, then get one more decent contract somewhere else. Wouldn't be a bad idea.

Also, if the Celtics somehow land CP3, I don't think they can afford West.

I think they can afford West and CP3.
I was working that abit ago. With them resigning Green for 1 yr. 9 mil. they could do West and CP3. But they would still need the 3rd team for CP3.

ChristianDudley
12-11-2011, 03:43 AM
U do realize we only have three big men on the roster right? We are probably going to sign both and call it a day sounds pretty nice to me.

1) Roy
2) Hansbrough
3) Foster
4) Pendergraph

Well there's 4?? lol...I know what you mean though, and I agree, I wouldn't mind having both West and Landry on our roster.

pezasied182
12-11-2011, 03:46 AM
When you become a free agent you don't just disappear off of a teams cap. They have to renounce their rights to you. West made 8 mil last year, so he's probably currently withholding 9 million of New Orleans cap space. To complete the CP3 trade, they probably need that space. When you renounce a players rights, you cannot sign and trade that player any longer.

I don't think NO would have to renounce his Bird rights, they only have like five players on their roster and are well under the cap.

tadscout
12-11-2011, 03:49 AM
When you become a free agent you don't just disappear off of a teams cap. They have to renounce their rights to you. West made 8 mil last year, so he's probably currently withholding 9 million of New Orleans cap space. To complete the CP3 trade, they probably need that space. When you renounce a players rights, you cannot sign and trade that player any longer.

The issue isn't a CP3 deal... it is flipping JO to another team.

CooperManning
12-11-2011, 04:05 AM
Nice so instead of a five years plan now we are extending it to 7? Yeah good luck in another city by then.

Ages of key championship winning players:

2011:
Dirk - 33
Jason Terry - 33
Tyson Chandler - 28
Jason Kidd - 38
Shawn Marion - 33
JJ Barea - 27
D Stevenson - 30

2010:
Kobe - 31
Pau - 29
Odom - 30
Bynum - 22
Artest - 30
Fisher - 35

2008:
Garnett - 31
Pierce - 30
Allen - 32
Rondo - 21
KPerk - 23
Posey - 31

2007:
Duncan - 31
Manu - 30
Parker - 25
Old guys: Michael Finley, Brent Barry, Bruce Bowen, Robert Horry

2006:
Shaq - 33
Wade - 24
Antoine Walker - 30
Udonis Haslem - 25
Gary Payton - 37
'Zo Mourning - 35
Posey - 29

2005:
Rip - 26
Ben Wallace - 30
Rasheed Wallace - 30
Chauncey - 29
Tayshaun - 24
McDyess - 30

----
Pacers Key Players:
Granger - 28
Hibbert - 24
George - 21
George Hill - 25
Collison - 24
Hansbrough - 26

So yeah, I'm fine with waiting two extra years.

Miller-Time
12-11-2011, 04:06 AM
You can say what you want but if true Bird is playing this just like it has to be played!!!

- 4 guys flew to Denver to get Nene, BUT only if the contract would be reasonable. We had the story we offered 14mil and wouln't go above this

- now we offer a 2 year contract to DWest, which is practically just spot on factoring in the injury, but with a great upside as he is almost an Allstar when still the same guy before the injury

- we are also in contact with Landry if plan A or B fail

- also seems we are pretty well in the run for JCraw


I could live with any of those. Additionally we see we are not desperate to overpay, we never saw a report about the pacers where I had to wonder what we are doing (in danger of facepalm because of offering too much to a player). Seems our FO is following their words and are just reasonable. I like it

daschysta
12-11-2011, 04:54 AM
You know people are used to mediocrity when they get happy of signing an old guy that we don't even know if he can play back to backs and another PF that's not even an improvement to what we already have, great...

What's the point of even bringing up the back to back thing if there has been no indication that it would be an issue?

Best case, he hasn't lost a beat, plays at an all-star level.

Worst case, he is dissapointing, but is a large expiring contract that we can deal to a team looking to shed salary.

2 years is pretty much win win.

daschysta
12-11-2011, 04:56 AM
Mike Dunleavy, JO and many other players passed the physical before, that doesn't mean much, getting a guy for two years as another stop gap is BS.

Another stop gap? If he's healthy, truly then he's much more than a stop gap... He's a recent all-star power forward, which is more than nene can say btw.;)

Pacerized
12-11-2011, 07:26 AM
You can say what you want but if true Bird is playing this just like it has to be played!!!

- 4 guys flew to Denver to get Nene, BUT only if the contract would be reasonable. We had the story we offered 14mil and wouln't go above this

- now we offer a 2 year contract to DWest, which is practically just spot on factoring in the injury, but with a great upside as he is almost an Allstar when still the same guy before the injury

- we are also in contact with Landry if plan A or B fail

- also seems we are pretty well in the run for JCraw


I could live with any of those. Additionally we see we are not desperate to overpay, we never saw a report about the pacers where I had to wonder what we are doing (in danger of facepalm because of offering too much to a player). Seems our FO is following their words and are just reasonable. I like it

I agree, this is why I love having Bird in charge.
I still think we're in the Nene sweepstakes as well, we could bring in both with a 2 year contract to West. If he's healthy, he'd be very tradeable around the deadline.

pacers74
12-11-2011, 07:46 AM
I'm okay with a 2 year contract for West. What has surprised about the last few days as there has been almost no news about Landry. Why haven't we heard about any teams offering him any kind of contract?

able
12-11-2011, 07:57 AM
Signing West to 2/20 is short-sighter and dumb

if it works out he's healthy he will cost more to extend
if he unhealthy he takes away all our options next year

1 or 4 or not

Seems our FO is playing the same console as many posters

Shade
12-11-2011, 08:16 AM
I would rather have Nene, but if you can land West for a 2-year deal at $12.5 or less per, I think you have to do it.

Shade
12-11-2011, 08:18 AM
Signing West to 2/20 is short-sighter and dumb

if it works out he's healthy he will cost more to extend
if he unhealthy he takes away all our options next year

1 or 4 or not

Seems our FO is playing the same console as many posters

$10 mil a year isn't going to break us with how much cap space we have, and it would only be a 2-year deal because of the injury concern and his age. If he doesn't work out, then fine, you trade his expiring deal after one year.

Shade
12-11-2011, 08:19 AM
I'm okay with a 2 year contract for West. What has surprised about the last few days as there has been almost no news about Landry. Why haven't we heard about any teams offering him any kind of contract?

...because he isn't really that good?

PacerPenguins
12-11-2011, 08:22 AM
so if the talks between boston and the hornets dont work out today..... where signing him for sure?

OakMoses
12-11-2011, 08:26 AM
Signing West to 2/20 is short-sighter and dumb

if it works out he's healthy he will cost more to extend
if he unhealthy he takes away all our options next year

1 or 4 or not

Seems our FO is playing the same console as many posters

I completely disagree.

From what we've seen so far, Bird seems very unwilling to overpay guys. I think we can assume that we're not going to be paying West much more than $10mm a year. At that rate, he takes away none of our options for next year because his salary is almost entirely canceled out by Posey's expiring contract. Therefore, if there aren't other major deals, we still have room next summer for a max offer if we want to use it.

In the meantime, you add a guy who is one of the top 2 players on your team. You get 2 years (which, by the way, is exactly how many years Hansbrough has left on his contract) to see if Tyler is your future PF. You get 2 years to see if your youth develops enough that you can be considered a contender. Also, you get 2 years of a revenue sharing plan which hopefully turns the Pacers into a moneymaking organization again.

I would be willing to bet that if the Pacers win games and make money for the next two years, Simon will be willing to open up the checkbook for West if it makes sense to do so.

pacers74
12-11-2011, 08:27 AM
...because he isn't really that good?

That kind of scares me. His offensive game is good. He doesn't rebound. How is his defense?

pacers74
12-11-2011, 08:28 AM
so if the talks between boston and the hornets dont work out today..... where signing him for sure?

Nothing is for sure. He has said he wants to play for a contender.

Gamble1
12-11-2011, 08:30 AM
Signing West to 2/20 is short-sighter and dumb

if it works out he's healthy he will cost more to extend
if he unhealthy he takes away all our options next year

1 or 4 or not

Seems our FO is playing the same console as many posters

The 2 year deal is bc tyler contract is up at the same time. It basically buys time to see if th is starting material. Its pretty smart if you ask me.

PacerPenguins
12-11-2011, 08:44 AM
The latest update on the David West trade is that the Pacers are willing to fight Boston for him. Who will win the battle between GMs Danny Ainge and Larry Bird?

:box:

Ozwalt72
12-11-2011, 08:48 AM
Signing West to 2/20 is short-sighter and dumb

if it works out he's healthy he will cost more to extend
if he unhealthy he takes away all our options next year

1 or 4 or not

Seems our FO is playing the same console as many posters

So, if we sign West, and when next year rolls around we'll have about the same cap number as we have now, with QOs out to Roy, Hill and maybe Price. Now, Roy's likely to get paid, but if he gets 10 mil tossed at him we'll still have enough for another 5-6 mil-ish free agent. Hill will get some value too.

IF a free agent wanted to sign with us, we could do one of two things available to us from the new CBA (If I understand what I've heard...):

1.) Extend and lower West's contract. Probably less likely, but could open up three or 4 mil.

2.) Use the stretch provision on West, say he gets 10 mil, the stretch provision would lower his cap value to about 3.3.

And don't discount the possibility we flip either Hill or Hibbert in a sign and trade.

able
12-11-2011, 08:48 AM
I repeat here what i posted elsewere fopr convenience with slight alterations

Of our current team AJ Price and Lance Stephenson have no contract past this year.

Neither do Roy Hibbert and George Hill and Brandon Rush
Dahntay Jones has a player option

accounting for all that our salary would be around 24 million.
for that we would have on our roster;

Granger, Jones, George, Hansbrough, Collison

if we sign West for 2/20 our salary is 34 and 6 players under contract.

to;

A: re-sign Hibbert 9 mio ?? (cheap)
B: re-sign Hill 8 mio ?

We have now got 8 players on our roster @ 51 million payroll

7 more players to acquire, that makes us a player in what ?

Correct nada, after deducting draftpicks we can sign some more pendergasts

And it dont get better after his 2nd year, because than we have to re-sign Hansbrough and George the year after that.

1 year contract, give us room to maneuver, 3 or 4 is commitment. but helps out with the above, not that i am in favor of that, but still,

it just not worht it.

Ozwalt72
12-11-2011, 08:50 AM
:box:

They should whip out their playing careers and compare.

Lance George
12-11-2011, 08:53 AM
Does anyone know what a two-year, $22M front-loaded contract would look like? At this point, I'd be o.k. with David West for two-years, as long as it didn't prevent us from making a major move (trade or 2012 free agency) by the start of next season.

If it would cripple our chances at making a future, major move, then I agree with able that it's really not worth it.

Lance George
12-11-2011, 08:53 AM
MikeWellsNBA Mike Wells
Larry Bird's patience could pay off if he's able to sign West to only a 2 yr contract. They were concerned he wouldn't do a short-term deal

PacerPenguins
12-11-2011, 08:54 AM
I repeat here what i posted elsewere fopr convenience with slight alterations

Of our current team AJ Price and Lance Stephenson have no contract past this year.

Neither do Roy Hibbert and George Hill and Brandon Rush
Dahntay Jones has a player option

accounting for all that our salary would be around 24 million.
for that we would have on our roster;

Granger, Jones, George, Hansbrough, Collison

if we sign West for 2/20 our salary is 34 and 6 players under contract.

to;

A: re-sign Hibbert 9 mio ?? (cheap)
B: re-sign Hill 8 mio ?

We have now got 8 players on our roster @ 51 million payroll

7 more players to acquire, that makes us a player in what ?

Correct nada, after deducting draftpicks we can sign some more pendergasts

And it dont get better after his 2nd year, because than we have to re-sign Hansbrough and George the year after that.

1 year contract, give us room to maneuver, 3 or 4 is commitment. but helps out with the above, not that i am in favor of that, but still,

it just not worht it.

just a "Grumpy Old Man" today arent we ;)

PacerPenguins
12-11-2011, 08:56 AM
all I can say is after all the positive moves Larry has made for this team.... i have full trust in him to make all the right moves..... name me one wrong move larry has made in the last 2-3 years

Ozwalt72
12-11-2011, 08:56 AM
Does anyone know what a two-year, $22M front-loaded contract would look like?.

Assuming the 4.5% max raise, about 11.5 the first year, about 11 the second. Not much of a saving.

able
12-11-2011, 09:04 AM
all I can say is after all the positive moves Larry has made for this team.... i have full trust in him to make all the right moves..... name me one wrong move larry has made in the last 2-3 years

You really don't want to open that can of worms

PacerPenguins
12-11-2011, 09:05 AM
You really don't want to open that can of worms

name some then........ :p

Ozwalt72
12-11-2011, 09:12 AM
name some then........ :p

Please ignore this. I don't want to read a damn post about David West so that we can go through the thorough bi-yearly bashing of Bird.

PacerPenguins
12-11-2011, 09:14 AM
Please ignore this. I don't want to read a damn post about David West so that we can go through the thorough bi-yearly bashing of Bird.

it was obviously a joke hence the :p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p and the ;);););););););););););)

xBulletproof
12-11-2011, 09:20 AM
Of our current team AJ Price and Lance Stephenson have no contract past this year.

Lance has 2 more years in a team option for under a million per.

cordobes
12-11-2011, 09:21 AM
I can understand the reluctance of giving West a long contract because of his injury/surgery. But in a short-term deal, there's no reason to pass on him.

West is a 20 points per game threat. Very versatile scorer. With a good PG, he becomes a nightmare to defend. Not a nuisance in other aspects of the game. His game doesn't rely on athleticism at all, so I don't expect any noticeable decline soon if he recovers from the surgery well.

able
12-11-2011, 09:23 AM
Lance has 2 more years in a team option for under a million per.

there is a team option for 2 years, but it has not been taken yet, so for the record, it is not there.

It will btw be around 1 mio per annum if they take it.
and as such remove even more space

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 09:25 AM
You know people are used to mediocrity when they get happy of signing an old guy that we don't even know if he can play back to backs and another PF that's not even an improvement to what we already have, great...

I would say West, if healthy, is an upgrade but only a slight upgrade. We might find that Tyler plays better. McBob actually did some things better than David West.

Actually, I consider this to be better than nothing. But it's not going to help us win in the playoffs against the better teams. Certainly not against the bigger front lines that always win championships.

But again, better than nothing.

BRushWithDeath
12-11-2011, 09:30 AM
This may be crazy but I would rather have David West on a 2 year, $30 million deal than a 4 year, $30 million deal.

Sollozzo
12-11-2011, 09:33 AM
You really don't want to open that can of worms



Aside from not firing O'Brien sooner, which is indefensible, what bad personal moves has he made? Let's see some specifics.


You have to actually have assets to make things happen in this league. No one wanted the expensive garbage on this team. No one is giving you anything for Mike Dunleavy, TJ Ford, or Tinsley. Yeah, I know that Bird is the one who brought Ford in here, but that was part of a large move that netted us our center of the future. So it was worth it. And it's a miracle that Bird was able to turn Murphy into Darren Collison.

The guys that had trade value (Hibbert and Granger) were players that we actually wanted to keep.

So again, what moves could Bird have done from 08-present that he didn't? What moves did he do that were wrong? I want to hear them.

His only option was to wait for the contracts to expire while stocking up on young talent and he's done a pretty damn good job of doing that. Bird's legacy will be based on what he does over the next couple of years. But as far as the past couple of years are concerned, he's done about as good a job as anyone could ask for. And I'm referring only to 2008-present because there is way too much evidence that Walsh still had most of the pull until 2008. Since Walsh left, Bird has done a very solid job.

xBulletproof
12-11-2011, 09:38 AM
Able hates Bird.

Understand it and leave it at that.

Shade
12-11-2011, 09:43 AM
:box:

Three-point shooting contest!

"Alright, who's coming in second place today...Danny?"

Shade
12-11-2011, 09:47 AM
I repeat here what i posted elsewere fopr convenience with slight alterations

Of our current team AJ Price and Lance Stephenson have no contract past this year.

Neither do Roy Hibbert and George Hill and Brandon Rush
Dahntay Jones has a player option

accounting for all that our salary would be around 24 million.
for that we would have on our roster;

Granger, Jones, George, Hansbrough, Collison

if we sign West for 2/20 our salary is 34 and 6 players under contract.

to;

A: re-sign Hibbert 9 mio ?? (cheap)
B: re-sign Hill 8 mio ?

We have now got 8 players on our roster @ 51 million payroll

7 more players to acquire, that makes us a player in what ?

Correct nada, after deducting draftpicks we can sign some more pendergasts

And it dont get better after his 2nd year, because than we have to re-sign Hansbrough and George the year after that.

1 year contract, give us room to maneuver, 3 or 4 is commitment. but helps out with the above, not that i am in favor of that, but still,

it just not worht it.

Except, West becomes a very tradeable expiring contract.

Who exactly are you expecting the Pacers to target next off-season who is better than West?

able
12-11-2011, 09:49 AM
Able hates Bird.

Understand it and leave it at that.

"Coach you can pick me all you want, I will never play for the Pacers, I am going to the Celtics"

I'll leave it at that, but few quick facts:

he became President of Pacers Basketball in 2003

Walsh started in NY in april 08

for everything else we differ of opinion and that is as far as i will go at any given time.

able
12-11-2011, 09:55 AM
Except, West becomes a very tradeable expiring contract.

Who exactly are you expecting the Pacers to target next off-season who is better than West?

If he fails, perhaps someone wants to take on an expiring on the deadline, however all our other expirings did just that.

Are we building a team or using stopgap?

in case 1 he is to old and to risky
in case 2 he is to expensive

Better next year? the way the current trades and forced trades are going i dont think anyone has an idea, but i am sure some players come along that can do more for us then West.

Would it not be better to try and find a PF a lot younger ? take on a 1 year bad contract for that in exchange? I have not looked at the options but i am sure there is another McBob or Hansbrough out there that costs less and has a better chance of growing with the team.

2 yr West (based upon his curren 31) means that I have to look for another PF the coming 2 years anyway, why not look straight away instead of risking a good chunk of money for a risk?

We are not the Celtics with a closing window, we are the Pacers, we are just opening our window

Dr. Awesome
12-11-2011, 10:00 AM
I'm not a David West fan, but seems like a low-risk high-reward type of move. I'd much rather sign Nene though.

Gamble1
12-11-2011, 10:03 AM
For those who want milsap or josh smith those are 2 year deals as well so I don't see a point in trading for those players who would cost more than just signing west.

thatch3232
12-11-2011, 10:14 AM
If its going to happen, when exactly will this "swooping in" happen? We would need him in training camp sooner than later.

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 10:16 AM
Another stop gap? If he's healthy, truly then he's much more than a stop gap... He's a recent all-star power forward, which is more than nene can say btw.;)

He was an all star power forward, he is not anymore, if that is the case we should just wait to sign KG and Duncan to a huge contract next year.

Ozwalt72
12-11-2011, 10:19 AM
He was an all star power forward, he is not anymore, if that is the case we should just wait to sign KG and Duncan to a huge contract next year.

Except this would only be a two year deal.

If he's the David West of before the injury, we have a heck of a deal.
If he's old, injured, stinky....we can use the stretch provision.

Either way its a 2 year thing, which isn't so bad.

Shade
12-11-2011, 10:20 AM
If he fails, perhaps someone wants to take on an expiring on the deadline, however all our other expirings did just that.

Are we building a team or using stopgap?

in case 1 he is to old and to risky
in case 2 he is to expensive

Better next year? the way the current trades and forced trades are going i dont think anyone has an idea, but i am sure some players come along that can do more for us then West.

Would it not be better to try and find a PF a lot younger ? take on a 1 year bad contract for that in exchange? I have not looked at the options but i am sure there is another McBob or Hansbrough out there that costs less and has a better chance of growing with the team.

2 yr West (based upon his curren 31) means that I have to look for another PF the coming 2 years anyway, why not look straight away instead of risking a good chunk of money for a risk?

We are not the Celtics with a closing window, we are the Pacers, we are just opening our window

What PF would you like them to acquire, who is better than West, that would be willing to play long-term in Indy?

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 10:24 AM
What's the point of even bringing up the back to back thing if there has been no indication that it would be an issue?

Best case, he hasn't lost a beat, plays at an all-star level.

Worst case, he is dissapointing, but is a large expiring contract that we can deal to a team looking to shed salary.

2 years is pretty much win win.

Yes that's great idea, let's sign Broken down guys to a big contract for two years so they could be a huge expiring contract that we are never going to use anyway.

Regarding West condition there was an article that I posted in another thread were he just got the permit from his doctor to play basketball with contact, either way signing West makes no freaking sense for the future, we are not going to compete for S with him so what's the point?


edit: Here is the article I found for those that care:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2011-10-21/david-west-100-percent-after-knee-rehabilitation


“He was pleasantly surprised to get the news that the doctor said everything almost seems to be back to as good as new,” West's agent, Lance Young, told The Times-Picayune. “It was a six-month check-up. (Dr. David Altchek) said, “If I did a bunch of tests on both knees, I couldn’t even tell you which knee had the surgery. In the next couple weeks, if not now, I’d think you would be 100 percent.’

David West is a two-time All-Star and pending free agent. (AP Photo)“That’s some really good news. He said, ‘I don’t need to see you anymore. You’re the doctor now. If it gives you any soreness or anything, just tone it down a little bit.’ But David has had no problems, no soreness with it.”

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 10:27 AM
Except this would only be a two year deal.

If he's the David West of before the injury, we have a heck of a deal.
If he's old, injured, stinky....we can use the stretch provision.

Either way its a 2 year thing, which isn't so bad.

What is the stretch provision? The "five year plan that is now a seven years plan or an eight year plan provision"?

DemonHunter1105
12-11-2011, 10:29 AM
You guys realize trying to argue with people who are against the most logical/sensible course of action at this point in free agency is pointless right?

Ace E.Anderson
12-11-2011, 10:29 AM
If he fails, perhaps someone wants to take on an expiring on the deadline, however all our other expirings did just that.

Are we building a team or using stopgap?

in case 1 he is to old and to risky
in case 2 he is to expensive

Better next year? the way the current trades and forced trades are going i dont think anyone has an idea, but i am sure some players come along that can do more for us then West.

Would it not be better to try and find a PF a lot younger ? take on a 1 year bad contract for that in exchange? I have not looked at the options but i am sure there is another McBob or Hansbrough out there that costs less and has a better chance of growing with the team.

2 yr West (based upon his curren 31) means that I have to look for another PF the coming 2 years anyway, why not look straight away instead of risking a good chunk of money for a risk?

We are not the Celtics with a closing window, we are the Pacers, we are just opening our window

What about playing for now? We can build for the future all we want, but if we don't win consistantly now, we will end up like the baby bulls (BR-before rose w/ gordon, hinrich, deng) Anyone that doesnt think West or even Landry are upgrades over Tyler and J-Mac is kidding themselves. While all four bring various positives to the team, the first two bring us a consistancy that we currently lack. And that's why we are looking to sign them, experience and consistancy; it doesn't hurt our future, it should enhance it, while helping us IN THE PRESENT at the same time

Hicks
12-11-2011, 10:33 AM
Signing West to 2/20 is short-sighter and dumb

if it works out he's healthy he will cost more to extend
if he unhealthy he takes away all our options next year

1 or 4 or not

Seems our FO is playing the same console as many posters

He will likely never command (much) more than 10m again in his career. This contract is the annual amount of money a healthy West should get, not a gimpy one. The injury concern is why they'll only do it for 2 years and no longer. It makes sense. If he's his old self in two years, his new contract might be longer, but it won't be for (much) more than this.

Plus if he is still healthy and productive, it's not a crazy idea to want him to stay longer, yet at the same time we won't necessarily be obligated to keep him. Depending on other moves, we could always go in another direction in 2013.

Scot Pollard
12-11-2011, 10:39 AM
Nice so instead of a five years plan now we are extending it to 7? Yeah good luck in another city by then.

What the hell are you talking about?

removed

Hicks
12-11-2011, 10:40 AM
I repeat here what i posted elsewere fopr convenience with slight alterations

Of our current team AJ Price and Lance Stephenson have no contract past this year.

Neither do Roy Hibbert and George Hill and Brandon Rush
Dahntay Jones has a player option

accounting for all that our salary would be around 24 million.
for that we would have on our roster;

Granger, Jones, George, Hansbrough, Collison

if we sign West for 2/20 our salary is 34 and 6 players under contract.

to;

A: re-sign Hibbert 9 mio ?? (cheap)
B: re-sign Hill 8 mio ?

We have now got 8 players on our roster @ 51 million payroll

7 more players to acquire, that makes us a player in what ?

Correct nada, after deducting draftpicks we can sign some more pendergasts

And it dont get better after his 2nd year, because than we have to re-sign Hansbrough and George the year after that.

1 year contract, give us room to maneuver, 3 or 4 is commitment. but helps out with the above, not that i am in favor of that, but still,

it just not worht it.

So you want them to make no multi year commitments to anyone worth significant money because you think all of our money will need to go to who we already have?

Hicks
12-11-2011, 10:44 AM
If its going to happen, when exactly will this "swooping in" happen? We would need him in training camp sooner than later.

Probably tonight or tomorrow.

Hicks
12-11-2011, 10:45 AM
"Coach you can pick me all you want, I will never play for the Pacers, I am going to the Celtics"


Source??

Scot Pollard
12-11-2011, 10:46 AM
I don't get all the negativity among some people on this board.

I don't really want David West either, but I'm not going to whine about it on here.

What's done is done and you just have to root for him and YOUR Pacers to do well.

PacerPenguins
12-11-2011, 10:46 AM
Source??

able is making up quotes

Sollozzo
12-11-2011, 11:06 AM
I'll leave it at that, but few quick facts:

he became President of Pacers Basketball in 2003

Walsh started in NY in april 08





Yeah, exactly. Walsh had a significant amount of control for the first 5 years that Bird was here. Just ask Chris Mullin who only talked to Walsh when doing the Murph/Dun trade.

Bird's tenure here can be divided up into two very different chapters. For the first 5 years he was part of a "two-headed monster" in which many of us still believe Walsh had the final say.

His second chapter has been from 08-present. During these past 3 years, he without a doubt has the final say as to all moves. In those three years, I think he has done a very solid job at bringing in young talent. He did the best he could given that the team was weighed down by crappy players with huge contracts who no one wanted. The fact that he was able to pull the Murphy for Collison deal is a miracle.

PacerPenguins
12-11-2011, 11:25 AM
if we sign west call it a great offseason and call it a day...... i mean this guy is a 19 pt 8 rb guy.....

Edit: and he can play D

able
12-11-2011, 11:31 AM
Source??


His own book

also Loose Balls

it is a well know story that Pacers had the option to pick him, but he wanted to go to the Celtics and just stayed in college one more year, while being drafted by the Celtcis (possible under the then draft rules)

the story became that the Pacers could not wait a year.

able
12-11-2011, 11:33 AM
able is making up quotes

i suggest you change that post

Hicks
12-11-2011, 11:33 AM
What do you mean his own book? His own book is what I've brought up to you in the past to REFUTE what you're claiming he said!

I wish I still knew where my copy was so we could put this to rest already. Anyone still have it? It's called 'Bird Watching' and it's from around 1999.

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 11:37 AM
if we sign west call it a great offseason and call it a day...... i mean this guy is a 19 pt 8 rb guy.....

Edit: and he can play D

Not he can't, his defense is not Troy Murphy bad but is pretty bad.

Hicks
12-11-2011, 11:51 AM
Okay, this is part of it; Google doesn't let you see the next page, but let me type the page they DO have from 'Bird Watching' by Larry Bird and Jackie MacMullan. 1999, Warner Books, Inc.

http://books.google.com/books?id=SoXikyW3S40C&lpg=PT7&ots=H0yVepBV2-&dq=larry%20bird%20'bird%20watching'&pg=PT47#v=onepage&q=slick&f=false



There was a time when I thought I might play for the Indiana Pacers, because they had the number one pick in the 1978 draft. I was a junior at Indiana State at the time, and I was eligible for the draft, but my plans all along were to go back to school for my senior year. I got a call from my friend Ed Jukes, who ended up being my financial adviser during my career, and he said he had gotten a call from the Pacers general manager, Bob Leonard, who said Indiana had the number one pick and would like to use it to take me in the draft. Ed told him, "I don't know, you better talk to Larry about it." So Leonard, who everyone called Slick, says, "Well, I'd like to sit down with Larry." So Ed and I drive to Indianapolis and we meet Slick at the hotel room in the Hyatt Regency.

Actually it was a suite, so I guess they were trying to impress us, especially since at the time the Pacers really didn't have any money. They had paid millions of dollars to come into the NBA from the ABA, and they had no television rights or anything, and I think they only had about twelve people running the whole franchise. In fact, Slick told me up front the Pacers really wanted me to play for them, but they couldn't pay me very much.

We had been talking a little bit when Slick asked me, "Would you like something to drink?" I asked them what they had, and he said, "We've got beer, sodas, whatever you want." So I said beer. He asked me what kind i wanted and I said, "Heineken!" In college I'd drink all this other stuff, the cheaper the better. I don't think I had ever had a Heineken in m life. But I figured, hey, why not? They said I could have anything.

It's funny how things work out, because more than twenty years later, Slick Leonard and I have become good friends. He does the radio for all the Pacers games, so he travels with the team, and nine times out of ten he ends up in my room having a beer with me after the game. Every time I see Slick he starts teasing me. He says, "Some hillbilly you turned out to be. You came up here and ordered a two-dollar bottle of beer back when just about everything else cost fifty cents." Slick has a long memory, just like me.

The Pacers never did draft me in 1978, because I told them I had promised my mom I would go back to college for my senior year and graduate. Indiana was in a position at that time where it needed to do something right away. The Pacers couldn't afford to wait a whole year to get me. And at the same time they were talking to me, they were trying to re-sign one of their free agents, Dan Roundfield. It turns out slick offered Roundfield $200,000, which was $200,000 ...

And it cuts off there before skipping pages.

Now, do you still believe that the next page is going to have this in it:

"Coach you can pick me all you want, I will never play for the Pacers, I am going to the Celtics"
?

I don't. At best, in the context of knowing Boston was willing to wait a year on him and Indiana couldn't and wouldn't, he may say something matter-of-factly about not playing for the Pacers due to the circumstances, but that's nowhere near the context that he was just being an arrogant ******* about it and talking down to Slick and the Pacers.

Hopefully someone with a physical copy handy can confirm/deny it once and for all.

able
12-11-2011, 12:26 PM
Hicks,

I have a hardcopy, I also have "lose balls" and some other books from the era, LB's story don't tell the whole story.

Also i spoke about this with someone not to far off from Pacers basketball at that time, Mike Storen.

I guess one day I may be around there to ask coach myself, until then i tend to go with the implication in the books and what Mike told me when i visited him and his wife in Atlanta.

imawhat
12-11-2011, 12:40 PM
2yr/$19M is my guess.

Is there any way to lump this with a Chris Paul trade? Get the Hornets a nice trade exception, some young pieces and draft picks, Boston gets West and Paul and Pacers get Rondo?

Strummer
12-11-2011, 01:14 PM
His own book

also Loose Balls

it is a well know story that Pacers had the option to pick him, but he wanted to go to the Celtics and just stayed in college one more year, while being drafted by the Celtcis (possible under the then draft rules)

the story became that the Pacers could not wait a year.

This doesn't sound right. Bird was drafted by the Celtics and THEN he stayed in school one more year. If he was scheming to be a Celtic, then he had no reason to stay in school that final year. He had already been drafted by them.

He was drafted while he still had a year of eligibility left. And he decided to use that year of eligibility. I think he would have played that last year in college no matter who drafted him.

Anyhow, I don't remember any stories from back in the day about him scheming to be a Celtic. Red was given credit for taking a chance by drafting him a year early. And it was a chance that payed off.

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 01:16 PM
2yr/$19M is my guess.

Is there any way to lump this with a Chris Paul trade? Get the Hornets a nice trade exception, some young pieces and draft picks, Boston gets West and Paul and Pacers get Rondo?

My guess is 2 years/12m, maybe more.

wintermute
12-11-2011, 01:48 PM
My guess is 2 years/12m, maybe more.

:eek:

Landry will get more than that.

2 years/$19m, 2 years/$20m sounds about right. Woj did say that Pacers were offering less years but more money per year compared to the Celtics 3 years/$24m offer.

xBulletproof
12-11-2011, 01:49 PM
I'm not that high on West, but I am okay with 2 years. I'd rather have Landry though.

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 01:55 PM
:eek:

Landry will get more than that.

2 years/$19m, 2 years/$20m sounds about right. Woj did say that Pacers were offering less years but more money per year compared to the Celtics 3 years/$24m offer.

West was taking a pay cut to be with the Celtics and was going to get 9mil a year for three years again to play with the Celtics, I don't think he is going to be taking less than 12mil at least to come here for two years, maybe more.

ksuttonjr76
12-11-2011, 02:01 PM
I can understand the reluctance of giving West a long contract because of his injury/surgery. But in a short-term deal, there's no reason to pass on him.

West is a 20 points per game threat. Very versatile scorer. With a good PG, he becomes a nightmare to defend. Not a nuisance in other aspects of the game. His game doesn't rely on athleticism at all, so I don't expect any noticeable decline soon if he recovers from the surgery well.

No one is disputing what he's capable of doing. The question is "Can he still do it?". Personally, I don't even want the Pacers to waste a million on a player that's expected to be productive, but is not.

David West is the fool's gold of the offseason.

xtacy
12-11-2011, 02:07 PM
there is one thing i can say about this we have we cap space thing.

i hope we don't panic and make a mistake. overpaying west is one.

PacerPenguins
12-11-2011, 02:09 PM
ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Sources tell ESPN that Pacers making progress toward two-year, $20M deal with David West thanks to West's stalled sign-and-trade to Boston

:)

PaceBalls
12-11-2011, 02:10 PM
ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Sources tell ESPN that Pacers making progress toward two-year, $20M deal with David West thanks to West's stalled sign-and-trade to Boston

damn... please no.

PacerPenguins
12-11-2011, 02:12 PM
ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Sources tell ESPN that Pacers making progress toward two-year, $20M deal with David West thanks to West's stalled sign-and-trade to Boston

damn... please no.

i beat u 2 it and plz yes! :D:D:D:D

ksuttonjr76
12-11-2011, 02:19 PM
i beat u 2 it and plz yes! :D:D:D:D

Please no. Has there been any reports of him actually playing this offseason?

Trader Joe
12-11-2011, 02:19 PM
You guys are really scared about paying David West 10mil/yr for 2 years? That still gives us a ton of flexibility. He becomes an expiring contract after THIS SEASON, and could be used in a trade this summer, while also giving us immediate scoring from the 4.

Love that deal.

Trader Joe
12-11-2011, 02:20 PM
Please no. Has there been any reports of him actually playing this offseason?

Yes, he has been working out a lot in the offseason to rehab his knee.

Justin Tyme
12-11-2011, 02:22 PM
I'm not excited about West nor Landry as I feel a 12 mil his high for him, BUT for only 2 years it would be liveable. The 2nd year his contract is an expiring that could be traded if he's not what the Pacers expected.


Edit: I see now it's a 2 year 20 mil contract. That even makes it better.

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 02:22 PM
Please no. Has there been any reports of him actually playing this offseason?

Nope he was just cleared to practice a month ago.

edit: here is the article from a month ago:
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2011-10-21/david-west-100-percent-after-knee-rehabilitation



“That’s some really good news. He said, ‘I don’t need to see you anymore. You’re the doctor now. If it gives you any soreness or anything, just tone it down a little bit.’ But David has had no problems, no soreness with it.”


No yet.

imawhat
12-11-2011, 02:23 PM
He's fully cleared to play, but it's going to be a rough season, IMO.

If we could get Nene for two years at $15 per, I'd rather do that.

pacer4ever
12-11-2011, 02:24 PM
Please no. Has there been any reports of him actually playing this offseason?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_david_west_return_102011


Yes he has been playing since late October and many people report he is in the best shape of his life


but it normally takes some time to get back to 100% from ACL surgery. He could be a great trade chip in year two of his deal after he reaches 100%.

PacerPenguins
12-11-2011, 02:26 PM
who says this isnt a massive plan of birds to get cp3?.....

Ratking
12-11-2011, 02:28 PM
He might have the most snore-fest highlight reel of any allstar, but I love him for our team. If this works out for 2yr/20mil, and we manage to steal Mayo, I think that can be categorized as a brilliant offseason.

Sandman21
12-11-2011, 02:29 PM
2yr 20 mil is VERY reasonable.

This puts me from the no thank you on West camp into the let's do it camp.

BringJackBack
12-11-2011, 02:30 PM
This is such a great deal! Holy crap!

Pacersalltheway10
12-11-2011, 02:30 PM
I wonder if its a sign and trade with Posey to NO again.

PacerPenguins
12-11-2011, 02:31 PM
hes a 20 8 guy who wouldnt want that on their team?...... or maybe we do west/collison for rondo/bass

xBulletproof
12-11-2011, 02:31 PM
If West is healthy and can play, his familiarity with Collison and that jump shot he's going to challenge Granger as this teams high scorer. He'll also do it more efficiently than Hansbrough by far.

If we get West/Mayo .... Bird will be very close to getting what he wants. Little to no drop off when going to the bench. Especially if Foster can play center.

imawhat
12-11-2011, 02:32 PM
I've always thought Paul was Bird's real target, but we better speed the f*** up if that's what we want.

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 02:32 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_david_west_return_102011


Yes he has been playing since late October and many people report he is in the best shape of his life


but it normally takes some time to get back to 100% from ACL surgery. He could be a great trade chip in year two of his deal after he reaches 100%.

I'm still waiting for JO, Dunleavy and a bunch of other players to get to a 100%

Ratking
12-11-2011, 02:33 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_david_west_return_102011


Yes he has been playing since late October and many people report he is in the best shape of his life


but it normally takes some time to get back to 100% from ACL surgery. He could be a great trade chip in year two of his deal after he reaches 100%.

The fact that he still chose to opt our of his 7.5 mil in June is a good sign I think. Him and his agent must feel he is healthy to receive a better offer. Also, he never had a vertical game, so Im not sure the injury should have as profound an effect as we have seen with other bigs. He will still be able to nail 9 mid-range jumpers a game, regardless.

ksuttonjr76
12-11-2011, 02:33 PM
Hmmmm....For me, there's a difference between being cleared for practice to being cleared to playe actual games. His "practice" could be just walking around the basketball court ten times.

Put me in the camp that would rather pass on David West.

Aw Heck
12-11-2011, 02:33 PM
Latest from Marc Stein:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7341777/indiana-pacers-work-trade-oj-mayo-according-sources



Sources: Pacers trying to get O.J. Mayo

The Memphis Grizzlies are in advanced discussions with the Indiana Pacers on a sign-and-trade deal that would bring free agent Josh McRoberts to the Grizzlies and send guard O.J. Mayo to the Pacers, according to sources close to the process.

Sources also told ESPN.com that the Pacers are making progress toward a two-year deal with free-agent forward David West in the $20 million range after West's sign-and-trade to the Boston Celtics got held up this week.

It was not immediately known if the Celtics would try to salvage their West deal with the New Orleans Hornets. The Pacers, sources say, also have Carl Landry and Andrei Kirilenko alongside West at the top of their frontcourt wish list.

The Indianapolis Star reported earlier Sunday that the New York Knicks' pursuit of Jamal Crawford in a sign-and-trade deal with Atlanta and one more unspecified team was expected to put the Pacers back on the Mayo trail. Yahoo! Sports reported Saturday night that the Pacers had moved strongly into the bidding for West when the Hornets and Celtics could not immediately complete a sign-and-trade deal to land West with the Celtics.

The Mayo-McRoberts deal, if it goes through, is a re-run of the deal that the teams nearly pulled off at the trade deadline in February before a snafu in submitting the deal to the league office resulted in the trade collapsing. In that deal, Memphis was set to acquire McRoberts and a first-round pick for Mayo.


First I've heard of the Pacers' interest in Kirilenko.

purdue101
12-11-2011, 02:35 PM
If we can get West at 2 years 20-24M and land Mayo for McBob/pick, this offseason is a huge coup in my opinion.

While I loved Nene up front long term, West could be a good fit in the interim b/c he can flat out score, as can Mayo. I've never been too concerned with West's knee as he's never been an explosive player to begin with. Adding West/Mayo, in addition to the development of our young core, and the regression of Boston/Orlando, I think we are a 4-5 seed in the East. We also maintain a ton of flexibility cap wise AND add another young asset in the process, which will allow us to make big moves down the road (and resign Hibbert/Hill).

Get it done Larry

Sandman21
12-11-2011, 02:36 PM
daldridgetnt David Aldridge
Source: Sign/trade between Boston, NO for David West is dead, confirms ESPN.com report that Pacers closing in on signing West.
25 seconds ago

purdue101
12-11-2011, 02:36 PM
Latest from Marc Stein:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7341777/indiana-pacers-work-trade-oj-mayo-according-sources



First I've heard of the Pacers' interest in Kirilenko.

I like AK a lot. Not a good scorer, but his defense/athletiscm would be a nice addition to the frontcourt. He's been tearing it up in Russia.

Heisenberg
12-11-2011, 02:37 PM
AK47's playing in Russia and far as I know it'd take some cash to get him back from there

pacer4ever
12-11-2011, 02:40 PM
AK47's playing in Russia and far as I know it'd take some cash to get him back from there

no he is coming back he is injured though I watched his euro league teams last game where he was named MVP for the month Moscow is still unbeaten in euoleague play. I guess he may stay but ive heard he is coming back to the NBA.

Milos Tesdoic + Kristic plus AK47= :drool: that team was so fun to watch and crazy good.



daldridgetnt David Aldridge
Source: Sign/trade between Boston, NO for David West is dead, confirms ESPN.com report that Pacers closing in on signing West.

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 02:41 PM
Hmmmm....For me, there's a difference between being cleared for practice to being cleared to playe actual games. His "practice" could be just walking around the basketball court ten times.

Put me in the camp that would rather pass on David West.

Exactly, running around the court is way different than playing a real basketball game, just wait until he gets to play back to backs to see how the knee is holding, paying the guy 20mil without knowing that for sure is ridiculous.

PacerPenguins
12-11-2011, 02:42 PM
david west always plays great against the pacers..... hopefully he plays great for the pacers!

imawhat
12-11-2011, 02:42 PM
Best news we can hear is that Mayo gets pulled from Memphis practice.

Trader Joe
12-11-2011, 02:42 PM
He's fully cleared to play, but it's going to be a rough season, IMO.

If we could get Nene for two years at $15 per, I'd rather do that.

But that is not a realistic deal to expect Nene to consider.

righteouscool
12-11-2011, 02:43 PM
This is a great deal if it's only 2 years. GREAT. That's an all star level stop gap at PF.

Pacersalltheway10
12-11-2011, 02:43 PM
who says this isnt a massive plan of birds to get cp3?.....
http://www.nola.com/hornets/index.ssf/2011/03/new_orleans_hornets_guard_chri_39.html

From March 26, 2011 : CP3 on David West's injury


"Man, that's my guy, that's all I can say," said Paul, who talked in a post-game television interview about how difficult the day was Ė "We lost my brother; it's been the hardest day ever." "I was emotional in my post-game interview, but that's my guy. Plain and simple.

"I told him some people in your life that you meet, you have friends that are closer than family. He's one of those guys for me. It may sound crazy, but I'm hurt just as bad as he is that he can't play."

PacerPenguins
12-11-2011, 02:44 PM
nene has had 2 knee surgeries.... west has had 1

ksuttonjr76
12-11-2011, 02:44 PM
The fact that he still chose to opt our of his 7.5 mil in June is a good sign I think. Him and his agent must feel he is healthy to receive a better offer. Also, he never had a vertical game, so Im not sure the injury should have as profound an effect as we have seen with other bigs. He will still be able to nail 9 mid-range jumpers a game, regardless.

Nah...his agent gave him the "There's a sucker born every minute." speech.

CooperManning
12-11-2011, 02:45 PM
If Bird gets David West on a 2 year, $20 mil deal and pulls off a Mcbob for OJ Mayo sign and trade, that's an off-season that improves the team in the short term and leaves flexibility for the future. Really impressive, imo. I hope Larry pulls it off.

HC
12-11-2011, 02:45 PM
Hmmmm....For me, there's a difference between being cleared for practice to being cleared to playe actual games. His "practice" could be just walking around the basketball court ten times.

Put me in the camp that would rather pass on David West.

I'm sure the Pacers have done their due dilligence with this just as they have everything else. At the worst he doesn't pan out for 66 games and becomes an expiring contract next year while the Pacers maintain flexibility.

Trader Joe
12-11-2011, 02:46 PM
Look... there is absolutely no risk to signing David West to a 2 year 20 million dollar contract...none. At worst, if he sucks it up this year, you roll with the Hoosiers line, "My team is on the floor" and just bench and you have a massive expiring deal to use next summer as a trade chip.

I just don't see any risk with this at all this. 3 years or 4 years, I might start worrying, but 2 years? Sign me up all day long. Add in Mayo too for McRoberts? And I'm positively giddy.

Sandman21
12-11-2011, 02:46 PM
ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
TNT's David Aldridge reports Celts out of David West mix. By all accounts, BOS deal perished w/out team to take Jermaine O'Neal from Hornets
43 seconds ago


I was one of those who didn't want West either, but I cannot hate signing him to a 2 year agreement. Thats AWESOME for us.

yoadknux
12-11-2011, 02:46 PM
TNT's David Aldridge reports Celts out of David West mix. By all accounts, BOS deal perished w/out team to take Jermaine O'Neal from Hornets
http://twitter.com/#!/ESPNSteinLine

Trader Joe
12-11-2011, 02:46 PM
nene has had 2 knee surgeries.... west has had 1

Was wondering if anyone was going to bring up Nene's knee injuries.

2minutes twoa
12-11-2011, 02:52 PM
Larry is building a deep TEAM without overpaying! If West isn't quite 100% or needs a break from the compressed schedule, then Tyler gets the start. This is going to be a tough, in your face team that I can't wait to watch! Larry and company are doing a great job!!


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.061038,-85.534268

PacersForever
12-11-2011, 02:52 PM
Can I get some mayo with that west ?

ksuttonjr76
12-11-2011, 02:52 PM
I'm sure the Pacers have done their due dilligence with this just as they have everything else. At the worst he doesn't pan out for 66 games and becomes an expiring contract next year while the Pacers maintain flexibility.

I'm not getting this "Let's waste money for sake of wasting money." mindset that so many people are expressing.

I have an X-Box 360 that used to work until it got the Red Ring of Death, and I sent it out for repairs. I got it back, and the paperwork says it should work. I haven't plugged it in yet, but do anyone want to buy for $100?

PaceBalls
12-11-2011, 02:55 PM
I'm not getting this "Let's waste money for sake of wasting money." mindset that so many people are expressing.

I have an X-Box 360 that used to work until it got the Red Ring of Death, and I sent it out for repairs. I got it back, and the paperwork says it should work. I haven't plugged it in yet, but do anyone want to buy for $100?

The analogy would be more accurate if you were trying to sell it for $400 over two years...

Aw Heck
12-11-2011, 02:57 PM
West has signed! Two years $20 million per David Aldridge and Wojo!

Aldridge:

Agent Lance Young confirms David West agrees with Indiana on two-year, $20 million deal: "David is ready to help them win a championship."

daschysta
12-11-2011, 02:58 PM
WOO!!! THAT's a great deal for us imo! Welcome David West!

HC
12-11-2011, 02:58 PM
Was wondering if anyone was going to bring up Nene's knee injuries.

Or Amare...K-Mart...etc

PacerPenguins
12-11-2011, 02:59 PM
WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
David West has agreed to a 2 year, $20 million deal with Pacers, league source tells Y.

:D !!!

pathil275
12-11-2011, 02:59 PM
WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
David West has agreed to a 2 year, $20 million deal with Pacers, league source tells Y.

cordobes
12-11-2011, 02:59 PM
Good deal for Indiana.

Bad day for Boston. Such is life.

pacer4ever
12-11-2011, 02:59 PM
West has signed! Two years $20 million per David Aldridge and Wojo!

Aldridge:

best free agent signing of all time but that's not saying much loll love that deal for us wasnt a fan of bringing him in on a long deal but on a 2 year deal? thats a no brainier IMO

PaceBalls
12-11-2011, 02:59 PM
WojYahooNBA (http://twitter.com/#%21/WojYahooNBA) Adrian Wojnarowski



David West has agreed to a 2 year, $20 million deal with Pacers, league source tells Y.

I'll stop with the DWest criticism until at least February :)

I really hope this works out!

wintermute
12-11-2011, 03:00 PM
Very reasonable contract. That's what we get for being patient. Hope he's recovered from his injury though.

purdue101
12-11-2011, 03:00 PM
West has signed! Two years $20 million per David Aldridge and Wojo!

Aldridge:

Wow, just amazing move. Never in a million years did I think we could get West for 2 yrs at $10M per year That's unbelievable and as much as I wanted Nene, I couldn't turn this down as it's almost zero risk and we improve up front. Kudos to Larry. Now he needs to put the icing on the cake (Mayo) and call it a day.

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 03:00 PM
I'm not getting this "Let's waste money for sake of wasting money." mindset that so many people are expressing.

I have an X-Box 360 that used to work until it got the Red Ring of Death, and I sent it out for repairs. I got it back, and the paperwork says it should work. I haven't plugged it in yet, but do anyone want to buy for $100?

Yeah I like that way of thinking, "let's don't overpay Nene but instead get a guy for 20mil so he can be an expiring next year" great.

RLeWorm
12-11-2011, 03:02 PM
i honestly wasn't excited about david west. But i bet he is going to do good things for us and everyone that wasn't on board is going to bite their lip.

Sollozzo
12-11-2011, 03:02 PM
This is a freaking good deal for us.

This off-season we've traded the 15th pick in a weak draft and second rounder for George Hill and have added a two time all star big man for a very reasonable price. Yeah, I'd say Bird is doing a good job....

Mackey_Rose
12-11-2011, 03:02 PM
Really good deal for the Pacers. Not sure he's the best fit, but West is a hell of a player.

Smits Happens
12-11-2011, 03:02 PM
Very happy with this signing, in terms of dollars and years. Looking forward to seeing West in a Pacers uniform!

ChristianDudley
12-11-2011, 03:03 PM
HE'S OURS!!!!!!!!!!!! D-WEST!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trader Joe
12-11-2011, 03:04 PM
Very, very good deal. Possible immediate talent upgrade, and at the very least still provides us with flexibility this upcoming offseason. You'd have to be looking very hard/intentionally being negative to find a downside to this deal.

Trader Joe
12-11-2011, 03:05 PM
Yeah I like that way of thinking, "let's don't overpay Nene but instead get a guy for 20mil so he can be an expiring next year" great.

So you'd rather pay Nene 62 million over 4 years than pay David West 20 million over 2 years? You really think Nene is that much better?

rel
12-11-2011, 03:05 PM
now the big question. What number does he wear? 30's not an option :P

My guess, 36!

pacer4ever
12-11-2011, 03:06 PM
Good deal for Indiana.

Bad day for Boston. Such is life.


WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Celtics simply couldn't make 3 way deal with Hornets and Jermaine O'Neal contract.


Im glad the Hornets didn't do it they were not benefiting at all. If you guys give up the Clippers pick I bet a trade could of happen.

Heisenberg
12-11-2011, 03:06 PM
Really wasn't a big fan of chasing West. But that's when I thought it'd take like 4/50 to get him. His market really shrank apparently.

Pretty excited about it, high five Larry.

ksuttonjr76
12-11-2011, 03:06 PM
Damn...now I gotta support the team now that the decision has been made. Good signing if he's the David West from previous season. Hopefully this won't be JO 2.0 at half the cost.

cordobes
12-11-2011, 03:08 PM
Im glad the Hornets didn't do it they were not benefiting at all. If you guys give up the Clippers pick I bet a trade could of happen.

I think the idea was to find a 3rd team under the cap willing to take O'Neal' plus with JaJuan Johnson or picks as a sweetener. I hope that Ainge didn't value that Clippers pick so much. I'd have thrown it.

owl
12-11-2011, 03:09 PM
Sign Nene and trade for Rondo. Send out Tyler,1st and Collison. Just dreamin. I love what Tyler brings to the team.

Trader Joe
12-11-2011, 03:09 PM
Personal opinion, this was one of the savviest moves you could have expected from Bird, bided his time, didn't really show his hand and got a great value piece.

HC
12-11-2011, 03:09 PM
I'm not getting this "Let's waste money for sake of wasting money." mindset that so many people are expressing.

I have an X-Box 360 that used to work until it got the Red Ring of Death, and I sent it out for repairs. I got it back, and the paperwork says it should work. I haven't plugged it in yet, but do anyone want to buy for $100?

Youre right...lets stand pat and do nothing.

wintermute
12-11-2011, 03:11 PM
Mike Wells: It turns out Jermaine O'Neal helped his former team land David West.

:lol:

Pacersalltheway10
12-11-2011, 03:11 PM
West and CP3 are said to be best friends and like family ( even that is possibly an understatement). If CP3 wants a reunion he knows where to go.

Strummer
12-11-2011, 03:12 PM
I like this move, especially for two years. Low risk and it gives us 2 years to draft his replacement.

But, if he dominates then we may have a quandry. Because we won't hold his Bird rights. But we can cross that bridge if/when we come to it.

ksuttonjr76
12-11-2011, 03:16 PM
WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Celtics simply couldn't make 3 way deal with Hornets and Jermaine O'Neal contract.

Interesting. Larry Bird was able to unload that contract when JO had two years and $44MIL left and only played 42 games.

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 03:16 PM
West and CP3 are said to be best friends and like family ( even that is possibly an understatement). If CP3 wants a reunion he knows where to go.

Granger, Collison, 2012 1st pick. Would that be enough?

Mackey_Rose
12-11-2011, 03:20 PM
So you'd rather pay Nene 62 million over 4 years than pay David West 20 million over 2 years? You really think Nene is that much better?

Nene fills more than 1 gap on this roster, but he isn't a better player at all.

At that price point, David West is a great get.

pathil275
12-11-2011, 03:20 PM
I like this move, especially for two years. Low risk and it gives us 2 years to draft his replacement.

But, if he dominates then we may have a quandry. Because we won't hold his Bird rights. But we can cross that bridge if/when we come to it.

I like it, too, but drafting his replacement with draft picks potentially being in the range of 20-22 it gets more and more difficult ;)

ksuttonjr76
12-11-2011, 03:20 PM
Granger, Collison, 2012 1st pick. Would that be enough?

Before or after we get Mayo?

Trader Joe
12-11-2011, 03:22 PM
Nene fills more than 1 gap on this roster, but he isn't a better player at all.

At that price point, David West is a great get.

FYI, I've never said that Nene is clearly better than David West. Was merely asking vnzla to back up his opinion.

cordobes
12-11-2011, 03:30 PM
Interesting. Larry Bird was able to unload that contract when JO had two years and $44MIL left and only played 42 games.

And 29 years old and just 1 year removed from a 20/10/3 season.

tadscout
12-11-2011, 03:31 PM
Very, very good deal. Possible immediate talent upgrade, and at the very least still provides us with flexibility this upcoming offseason. You'd have to be looking very hard/intentionally being negative to find a downside to this deal.

:amen:

sopgy
12-11-2011, 03:39 PM
TheRocketGuy Bill Ingram
David West had better offers, but the Pacers presented him with the best chance to win - 2 years, $20 million.

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 03:43 PM
FYI, I've never said that Nene is clearly better than David West. Was merely asking vnzla to back up his opinion.

The market will show just how much more Nene is valued. He is very likely to command 50% more money. That's a lot better. It's a lot better because he can cover both C and PF with no problem while (and this is key) providing you a quality BIG and SMALL lineup. There are very few guys in the league capable of this and precisely why his price is high. Bottom line is, you get what you pay for.

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 03:44 PM
TheRocketGuy Bill Ingram
David West had better offers, but the Pacers presented him with the best chance to win - 2 years, $20 million.

Better offers? How about more money.

I hope this means the Pacers are making a very hard push for CP3.

ksuttonjr76
12-11-2011, 03:44 PM
And 29 years old and just 1 year removed from a 20/10/3 season.

Fair enough...I'll give you that one.

thatch3232
12-11-2011, 03:45 PM
TheRocketGuy Bill Ingram
David West had better offers, but the Pacers presented him with the best chance to win - 2 years, $20 million.

When is the last time us Pacer fans have heard that?!? Amazing news, loving watching this franchise get better and better through smart, methodical moves.

HC
12-11-2011, 03:48 PM
The market will show just how much more Nene is valued. He is very likely to command 50% more money. That's a lot better. It's a lot better because he can cover both C and PF with no problem while (and this is key) providing you a quality BIG and SMALL lineup. There are very few guys in the league capable of this and precisely why his price is high. Bottom line is, you get what you pay for.

Exactly, so why is everyone upset? Whether we agree with it or not, it was noted from the jump that Bird had absolutely no intentions of overpaying Nene.

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 03:52 PM
Exactly, so why is everyone upset? Whether we agree with it or not, it was noted from the jump that Bird had absolutely no intentions of overpaying Nene.

I'm glad we got West. I don't think he's the ideal PF to place next to Roy Hibbert, but he is a significant upgrade. We will be a better team and it's only two years...so I'm good with it.