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View Full Version : What the *bleep* is our cap space good for, again? (Crawford to Knicks?)



Hicks
12-10-2011, 11:44 PM
You gotta be ******** me with these multiple free agents (the relatively "big ones") going to contenders/big markets through these sign and trades.

First David West and the Celtics, now possibly Jamal Crawford to the Knicks.

It's getting ****ing ridiculous as a fan of a small market who patiently waited for YEARS to get cap space only to watch it apparently mean D***.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/new-york-knicks-pursuing-jamal-crawford/

And it's not really about those two in particular (though I had interest in them, to a point), but the general principle of it all. I've never felt like our team was so worthless in the grander picture than I have this week. It's damned demoralizing.

#frustratedbeyondbelief

xBulletproof
12-10-2011, 11:48 PM
I was never sold we wanted Jamal Crawford. Bird rarely lets anyone know what he's really going for. Nene was unavoidable though.

pacer4ever
12-10-2011, 11:49 PM
Why would the Hawks help the Knicks get better they are pretty identical both semi-contenders.

I just dont get why we didnt do this last year with Dunleavy's contract or what not I guess no free agents want to come here?

King Tuts Tomb
12-10-2011, 11:50 PM
I wouldn't be shocked if it happened, but judging from the article it's far from a done deal. The Knicks are "attempting" to acquire a free agent, "if" the Hawks agree. The Knicks "would love to add" Crawford. Doesn't sound like anything is set in stone.

CableKC
12-10-2011, 11:50 PM
I will continue to ask this......

HOW THE EFF are Teams that are way over the FRAKKIN CAP...MUCH LESS the FRAKKIN Luxury Tax Limit able to make a run at the Top Tier FAs this season?

Unclebuck
12-10-2011, 11:53 PM
Cap space never guaranteed anything. And I always argued against the idea that a team has to get really bad before it cam get good, primarily for the very reason that no free agents want to go to teams that has not been good.

It would have been much much easier to sign free agents for the pacers in 2000 than it is right now because the pacers have not been good in years.

Big market is also important, but Indy will never be a big market.

rock747
12-10-2011, 11:54 PM
The NBA is ridiculous. Why am I still paying attention to it?

Mono
12-10-2011, 11:54 PM
It just doesn't seem like a very good free agent class. I wouldn't pay Nene 14 or 15 million a year. I like Tyson Chandler but I probably wouldn't have paid him what the Knicks did. I'm not sure the Pacers even really went after David West.

I have a hard time criticizing the Pacers. When I play fantasy GM in my head, I doubt there's anything I'd do differently.

I guess the main thing I would have done differently, is I would have reached out to McRoberts.

rock747
12-10-2011, 11:55 PM
It doesn't matter how good a team is managed or how good the team is. It matters a whole lot more where they are located.

CableKC
12-10-2011, 11:55 PM
Here's part of the article:


One day after reaching a surprising agreement with center Tyson Chandler, the New York Knicks are attempting to acquire another notable free agent. The Knicks are zeroing in on Jamal Crawford and trying to add the veteran shooting guard through a sign-and-trade, according to sources close to the situation.

The Knicks contacted Crawford’s camp on Friday and are trying to sell him on the situation. Crawford would have to take a significant pay cut to join the Knicks, but sources say he’s open to the idea.

New York is over the cap and has no exception money. They also have few trade assets to offer. If the Hawks were willing to do a sign-and-trade with New York built around Renaldo Balkman’s $1.67 million deal, Bill Walker’s $916,000 deal and Toney Douglas’ $1.145 million deal, the Knicks would be sending out $3.73 million in salaries. The new collective bargaining agreement would allow New York to take back 150 percent plus or minus $100,000, which would give Crawford a starting salary of $5.6 million.

Crawford might as well go to the Heat, Lakers or Nets IF he wants to take a paycut.

pezasied182
12-10-2011, 11:56 PM
I'd like to say that there's always next year, but then I look at the FA class...blah

But honestly, the more I think about it the more
I'm ok with standing pat right now. We've got one of the best young teams in the league and I could see us surprising a few people this year. If we progress this year like I think we will, free agents will be a lot more willing to go to Indiana. Obviously not the superstars, but some top free agents at least. Remember this is a team that finished below .500 last year. It's going to be a few years until we're ready to compete.

Hicks
12-11-2011, 12:00 AM
It just doesn't seem like a very good free agent class. I wouldn't pay Nene 14 or 15 million a year. I like Tyson Chandler but I probably wouldn't have paid him what the Knicks did. I'm not sure the Pacers even really went after David West.

I have a hard time criticizing the Pacers. When I play fantasy GM in my head, I doubt there's anything I'd do differently.

I guess the main thing I would have done differently, is I would have reached out to McRoberts.

I hope there's not a misunderstanding here: I didn't start this thread to criticize the Indiana Pacers. If anything, I was criticizing the National Basketball Association.

Willbo
12-11-2011, 12:00 AM
Must admit that lack of FA signings on our part hasn't worried me one iota. Aside from Nene there is no 'must get' that fits what we are doing. Crawford, West, Landry, are luxuries but not necessities - hardly the difference between contending and not. Our cap space will turn out being valuable in a trading scenario and that is where will see the benefit on the roster.

Once the free and easy money is gone in the next 48hrs on the FA market we will become players.

bphil
12-11-2011, 12:01 AM
I will continue to ask this......

HOW THE EFF are Teams that are way over the FRAKKIN CAP...MUCH LESS the FRAKKIN Luxury Tax Limit able to make a run at the Top Tier FAs this season?

Keep in mind that the new luxury tax rules will not be implemented for the next two seasons...


Teams pay $1 for every $1 their salary is above the luxury-tax threshold in 2011-12 and 2012-13. Starting in 2012-13, teams pay an incremental tax that increases with every $5 million above the tax threshold ($1.50, $1.75, $2.50, $3.25, etc.). Teams that are repeat offenders (paying tax at least four out of the past five seasons) have a tax that is higher still — $1 more at each increment ($2.50, $2.75, $3.50, $4.25, etc.).

I actually think this is a bit wrong as what is written doesn't really make sense... I don't think the extra incremental tax kicks in until 2013-14.

Anyway, the point is that for now things are pretty much the same, but in a couple of years the teams that are way over the cap will get creamed and will be looking to unload some contracts, which is why it may be a good idea for the Pacers to avoid overpaying for anyone right now...

Mono
12-11-2011, 12:03 AM
I hope there's not a misunderstanding here: I didn't start this thread to criticize the Indiana Pacers. If anything, I was criticizing the National Basketball Association.

I wasn't really rebutting or arguing against your post. Just adding some thoughts.

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 12:04 AM
Hicks - why don't you open an IU Basketball Forum? This is coming from a Purdue fan. It's time to show our displeasure. In any event, I think I've decided to follow college basketball this winter.

Edit: Now...we know you're in bed with the Pacers. Probably on the payroll. J/K

CableKC
12-11-2011, 12:04 AM
Keep in mind that the new luxury tax rules will not be implemented for the next two seasons...



I actually think this is a bit wrong as what is written doesn't really make sense... I don't think the extra incremental tax kicks in until 2013-14.

Anyway, the point is that for now things are pretty much the same, but in a couple of years the teams that are way over the cap will get creamed and will be looking to unload some contracts, which is why it may be a good idea for the Pacers to avoid overpaying for anyone right now...
Old CBA or new CBA rules, it doesn't matter....what has happened this offseason with Teams like the Knicks and Celtics where they can make any run at any top Tier FAs is beyond ( as Hicks says ) frustrating.

BTW...the new CBA allowed for the Knicks to get Chandler.....they couldn't do it without amnesty-ing Billups.

crunk-juice
12-11-2011, 12:04 AM
I hope there's not a misunderstanding here: I didn't start this thread to criticize the Indiana Pacers. If anything, I was criticizing the National Basketball Association.

ah, then i take back my thanks. i'm criticizing the indiana pacers for doing jack ****

pacer4ever
12-11-2011, 12:10 AM
Cap space never guaranteed anything. And I always argued against the idea that a team has to get really bad before it cam get good, primarily for the very reason that no free agents want to go to teams that has not been good.

It would have been much much easier to sign free agents for the pacers in 2000 than it is right now because the pacers have not been good in years.

Big market is also important, but Indy will never be a big market.

teams have to get bad so you can build though the draft most teams dont build though FA. But small market teams must suck for 3-5 years before they can contend that's just the nature of the NBA. And when i say suck I say bottom 3 in the NBA for at least a few years. Tanking and good drafting is what helps small markets compete for titles not being stuck mediocre for year after year. No free agent would of went to the Sonics the year they took Kevin Durant but now they can attract them and that is because they have a good team they built from tanking and drafting well. But OKC likely wont get free agents they are focusing on paying there own guys and keep drafting good players like Reggie Jackson.

tadscout
12-11-2011, 12:11 AM
ah, then i take back my thanks. i'm criticizing the indiana pacers for doing jack ****

Excuse my language, but what the :censored: can we do???

If indoor sport players care more about the climate/ market size of teams they go to more than NFL players - What else can we do but be financially smart, and try to build a TEAM in the way the Championship Pistons did?

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 12:12 AM
Hicks I know you don't want to critice the Pacers so I would do it for you ;) I have a huge problem with the way Larry is doing things, it seems to me like he has way to many untouchables on the team, Danny,Hibbert,Paul George,Tyler,Lance, who knows who else in untouchable? how in the F are you going to make trades if you don't want to trade anybody but the players that nobody else wants? I have a feeling that he is trying to low ball everybody from the GM's on the other teams to the free agents, yes it's good to have somebody who is responsable but this is getting ridiculous, he told us to wait for this amazing days and so far he has not deliver.

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 12:13 AM
Miller, Smits and Dale Davis were the foundation of our last good team. Were they not all drafted by the Pacers? The Lakers didn't draft Kobe, Shaq, Odom, Gasol, Artest, etc.

I don't think we needed this free agent season to make it so much more obvious...

Pacers#1Fan
12-11-2011, 12:13 AM
The apparent lack of effort on the part of our front office in free agency tells me there must be some sort of trade they are putting their focus toward. If that's not the case TPTB's jobs can't be safe.

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 12:14 AM
I don't think Bird or Pacer management is a problem. I think the system is broken. Heck, I know the system is broken.

imawhat
12-11-2011, 12:19 AM
This trend has always been there. The only difference is twitter didn't exist so it wasn't shoved in our face.

It's frustrating, and it definitely shows why Larry's strategy makes sense for a team like ours.

Unclebuck
12-11-2011, 12:22 AM
teams have to get bad so you can build though the draft most teams dont build though FA. But small market teams must suck for 3-5 years before they can contend that's just the nature of the NBA. And when i say suck I say bottom 3 in the NBA for at least a few years. Tanking and good drafting is what helps small markets compete for titles not being stuck mediocre for year after year. No free agent would of went to the Sonics the year they took Kevin Durant but now they can attract them and that is because they have a good team they built from tanking and drafting well. But OKC likely wont get free agents they are focusing on paying there own guys and keep drafting good players like Reggie Jackson.

My point is if you are a small market team and you want to sign free agents it is much much easier to sign FA if you have a good contending team to begin with. OKC would have a much easier time signing FA than the pacers are

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 12:25 AM
By the way having that cap space is good so we can help those superteams to get cap space and in exchange we could get some late draft picks and garbage players, that sounds pretty good if you ask me........

Pacer Fan
12-11-2011, 12:25 AM
It's only been 48 hrs. and Larry said he would be looking at trading options as well as FA's and Amnesty. I think he will come thru for us. I really do!

doctor-h
12-11-2011, 12:26 AM
Must admit that lack of FA signings on our part hasn't worried me one iota. Aside from Nene there is no 'must get' that fits what we are doing. Crawford, West, Landry, are luxuries but not necessities - hardly the difference between contending and not. Our cap space will turn out being valuable in a trading scenario and that is where will see the benefit on the roster.

Once the free and easy money is gone in the next 48hrs on the FA market we will become players.

Keep telling yourselves that and be prepared to always be a loser. You have got to show these players you will do what it takes to win. The Pacers do not do that. They are always looking for a one sided deal. How stupid do they think the other teams are. You have to be aggressive on and off the floor. You can't always wait and pray something will fall in your lap. George Hill is a good player but not the type of player who will make a huge difference and put us over the top. Again keep waiting Pacer fans for that which will never come until someone realizes Danny Granger is no where near a star player.

jeffg-body
12-11-2011, 12:29 AM
Patience everyone. The trades will start coming closer to the end of training camp when teams have to get that salary cut down. I know it sucks seeing everyone else clamoring for the FA's this year. I have a feeling there may be a trade or some trades in the pipeline. I think everyone is a little gun shy of trying trades because of the big veto. I think if we are gonna get someone soon it will either be via amnesty or if Nene gets snubbed by NJ and they get Howard. I trust in the FO and they are being careful not to go out and blow our cap space because everyone else is.

pacer4ever
12-11-2011, 12:36 AM
My point is if you are a small market team and you want to sign free agents it is much much easier to sign FA if you have a good contending team to begin with. OKC would have a much easier time signing FA than the pacers are

and that is my point to get to that elite level you have to tank to get the elite talent. Unless you get really lucky and players fall like Danny did. But we dont have that elite talent like OKC because we didn't tank.

The worst place to be in the NBA is in the middle either suck or have an elite team to contend don't be stuck with an 8th seed team.

King Tuts Tomb
12-11-2011, 12:37 AM
Bird just spent the last three years drafting wisely, trimming bad contracts and setting us up for the future (the real future, meaning years ahead, not just 2012). Everyone needs to understand that signing two huge contracts as soon some cap space is cleared is not part of the plan he's been working on.

Too many on this board are chasing the fast nickel in favor of the slow dime.

pezasied182
12-11-2011, 12:38 AM
Patience everyone. The trades will start coming closer to the end of training camp when teams have to get that salary cut down. I know it sucks seeing everyone else clamoring for the FA's this year. I have a feeling there may be a trade or some trades in the pipeline. I think everyone is a little gun shy of trying trades because of the big veto. I think if we are gonna get someone soon it will either be via amnesty or if Nene gets snubbed by NJ and they get Howard. I trust in the FO and they are being careful not to go out and blow our cap space because everyone else is.

The problem with trades is no one (or very few people) want to give up any of our main assets to bring in a player. The truth is, we're not making a big trade without including Roy, PG, or Granger IMO. I just don't see our mid round picks or Collison/Hans having that much value especially when we're trying to upgrade at PF and PG.

tadscout
12-11-2011, 12:38 AM
johnhollinger (http://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=johnhollinger) Calm down NYC. Any sign-and-trade for Crawford puts the Hawks in the luxury tax. Non-starter.

Thought there was no point for Atl to do this....

doctor-h
12-11-2011, 12:38 AM
I don't think Bird or Pacer management is a problem. I think the system is broken. Heck, I know the system is broken.

I wish people would stop complaining about the system and put the blame where it belongs. Teams that want to seriously compete do what it takes. The rest of us sit around and blame someone. New Jersey is the armpit of the east and players will go there because they know they will get paid. I have heard everyone on this board talk about how all these teams are overpaying these guys and they are not worth it. We need to save our money and wait for next year. This will be no different next year, the teams that want those players will figure out how to get them even if they have no cap space. Nene was a perfect fit for our team and could have made a huge difference. I hope you all enjoy someone like Landry who will not make much of a difference at all because he is only a role player. But we still have cap room. I wander how much that will help us on the floor.

Foul on Smits
12-11-2011, 12:38 AM
So basically, we better hope Paul George is ****ing awesome.

King Tuts Tomb
12-11-2011, 12:39 AM
The worst place to be in the NBA is in the middle either suck or have an elite team to contend don't be stuck with an 8th seed team.

The Thunder were and 8th seed two years ago. The Grizz were an eighth seed last year. It's all part of a process. You can't go from worst to first overnight.

pacer4ever
12-11-2011, 12:40 AM
So basically, we better hope Paul George is ****ing awesome.

pretty much look at the list of the Pacers top free agents they have ever had. It is pretty short and pathetic.

We can still get players via trade but we arent gonna get good talent via free agency.

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 12:41 AM
The Thunder were and 8th seed two years ago. The Grizz were an eighth seed last year. It's all part of a process. You can't go from worst to first overnight.

I can't wait until the Durant to LA thread.

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 12:43 AM
I don't think Bird or Pacer management is a problem. I think the system is broken. Heck, I know the system is broken.

Yeah the system is broken but what is really holding Bird back for doing anything? he has cap space, young pieces to trade and picks, like I said before, I think he is too much in love with our young players not wanting to trade anybody.

pacer4ever
12-11-2011, 12:43 AM
The Thunder were and 8th seed two years ago. The Grizz were an eighth seed last year. It's all part of a process. You can't go from worst to first overnight.

both teams had retooled in the draft and trade in the Grizzles yes after you tank for a few years of course you will get back to the playoffs and then learn to win. Thats why I said it was a 3-5 year process I believe OKC was down for 3 and then made the playoffs with Kevin Durant who is an elite talent:laugh:

OKC had the 2nd pick then the 3rd and then 4th and the 5th pick in the draft that is what I call rebuilding

those picks were Kevin Durant James Harden and Russel Westbrook.

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 12:44 AM
Bird just spent the last three years drafting wisely, trimming bad contracts and setting us up for the future (the real future, meaning years ahead, not just 2012). Everyone needs to understand that signing two huge contracts as soon some cap space is cleared is not part of the plan he's been working on.

Too many on this board are chasing the fast nickel in favor of the slow dime.

We don't have any time. By the time Granger is a free agent, he will be on to LA or Boston too. He's not about to be Larry Bird's B****, right?

doctor-h
12-11-2011, 12:46 AM
Hicks I know you don't want to critice the Pacers so I would do it for you ;) I have a huge problem with the way Larry is doing things, it seems to me like he has way to many untouchables on the team, Danny,Hibbert,Paul George,Tyler,Lance, who knows who else in untouchable? how in the F are you going to make trades if you don't want to trade anybody but the players that nobody else wants? I have a feeling that he is trying to low ball everybody from the GM's on the other teams to the free agents, yes it's good to have somebody who is responsable but this is getting ridiculous, he told us to wait for this amazing days and so far he has not deliver.

You are exactly right. I would also say that maybe he is dealing with a owner that does not care if we truly compete and ties his hands a bit. If they don't change their thinking, it won't be long till Shaw is gone because he is used to being around winners. Nobody wants to go to a team that is satisfied with mediocrity. We lose a first round series in 5 games and everyone thinks we are competitive and are on the verge of greatness.

Willbo
12-11-2011, 12:47 AM
Keep telling yourselves that and be prepared to always be a loser. You have got to show these players you will do what it takes to win. The Pacers do not do that. They are always looking for a one sided deal. How stupid do they think the other teams are. You have to be aggressive on and off the floor. You can't always wait and pray something will fall in your lap. George Hill is a good player but not the type of player who will make a huge difference and put us over the top. Again keep waiting Pacer fans for that which will never come until someone realizes Danny Granger is no where near a star player.

Ok so we add Crawford at a premium, Landry, and possibly West at a Premium. So we go from 'losers' as you so eloquently put it to what? Slighty less of a 'loser' sans the capacity to make major improvement.

NBA history is littered with beneficial trades for teams with space that remain patient. Likewise it is populated by teams that sprayed their pants at the first sign of cap space.

I am desperate for the team to make aggressive transactions and do not for a moment see how, some 48hrs into this FA signing period, our failure to overpay for players that may not even be starting material means we are either 'passive' or 'always looking for a one sided deal'.

You yourself say George Hill is not the sort of player that will 'put us over the top' well, praytell, who of this FA crop would? Nene would be a massive improvement - but outside of that?

Young
12-11-2011, 12:48 AM
I was optimistic that the Pacers would be able to sign at least one decent player this off season and while it is not over it doesn't look like they will.

I am not surprised though. The Pacers have never been a top free agent destination. The good teams built in Indiana have never been built through free agency. So all this is really no surprise to me.

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 12:49 AM
Yeah the system is broken but what is really holding Bird back for doing anything? he has cap space, young pieces to trade and picks, like I said before, I think he is too much in love with our young players not wanting to trade anybody.

In all honesty, you really make a good point. It's becoming clear that one factor is that you have to spend money even if it means overpaying. But it all depends on who you spend it on. At the same time, some locations are simply going to be destinations...and there will be collusion among the players to centralize talent and the typical loser isn't going to be a giant market.

doctor-h
12-11-2011, 12:49 AM
By the way having that cap space is good so we can help those superteams to get cap space and in exchange we could get some late draft picks and garbage players, that sounds pretty good if you ask me........

That seems to be the plan.

Scot Pollard
12-11-2011, 12:49 AM
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE??????

HEY JUST FOLD ALL BUT 5 TEAMS IN THIS LEAGUE!

As Dan Gilbert said, call them the Washington Generals.

I'm pissed beyond belief right now.

It's one thing if he went to the Timberwolves, but not the DAMN ****IN KNICKS!!!!!!!!!

King Tuts Tomb
12-11-2011, 12:50 AM
We don't have any time. By the time Granger is a free agent, he will be on to LA or Boston too. He's not about to be Larry Bird's B****, right?

If your business plan is "we don't have any time" then you're almost doomed to failure. Is our goal to be good or is our goal to win a title? If it's to win a title, then patience and smart investing are our keys to success. If our goal is to be the Atlanta Hawks, then sure let's go ahead and sign some big contracts and get the 5th seed in the East for the next half decade.

doctor-h
12-11-2011, 12:51 AM
Patience everyone. The trades will start coming closer to the end of training camp when teams have to get that salary cut down. I know it sucks seeing everyone else clamoring for the FA's this year. I have a feeling there may be a trade or some trades in the pipeline. I think everyone is a little gun shy of trying trades because of the big veto. I think if we are gonna get someone soon it will either be via amnesty or if Nene gets snubbed by NJ and they get Howard. I trust in the FO and they are being careful not to go out and blow our cap space because everyone else is.

Yea we will be able to trade for whatever the big boys don't want. Can't wait

doctor-h
12-11-2011, 12:53 AM
If your business plan is "we don't have any time" then you're almost doomed to failure. Is our goal to be good or is our goal to win a title? If it's to win a title, then patience and smart investing are our keys to success. If our goal is to be the Atlanta Hawks, then sure let's go ahead and sign some big contracts and get the 5th seed in the East for the next half decade.

I wouldn't want to be a competitive 4th or 5th seed, I would rather be that easy out in the first round eight seed.

Scot Pollard
12-11-2011, 12:54 AM
Well.

At least we have Paul George.

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 12:54 AM
If your business plan is "we don't have any time" then you're almost doomed to failure. Is our goal to be good or is our goal to win a title? If it's to win a title, then patience and smart investing are our keys to success. If our goal is to be the Atlanta Hawks, then sure let's go ahead and sign some big contracts and get the 5th seed in the East for the next half decade.

I'm not the type to hurry into things. However, I recognize the league has changed from perhaps 5 or 10 years ago. Players bolt and try to centralize talent more now than ever. If that's the case, you need to strike when the iron is hot...because the window for a small market team just got really short. There is no longer any loyalty...and Danny isn't going to be Larry's B...

pacer4ever
12-11-2011, 12:54 AM
to answer the question our cap space is to resign our own players and hopefully add a few players via trade

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 12:56 AM
Well.

At least we have Paul George.

Not for long. Asking for trades and bolting once you're a free agent is what the NBA is all about now.

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 12:57 AM
Bird just spent the last three years drafting wisely, trimming bad contracts and setting us up for the future (the real future, meaning years ahead, not just 2012). Everyone needs to understand that signing two huge contracts as soon some cap space is cleared is not part of the plan he's been working on.

Too many on this board are chasing the fast nickel in favor of the slow dime.

He didn't trimmed bad contracts he just let them expired, huge difference, by the way I would like to know what the plan is, to let our young players get old so we can start another 5 years rebuilding plan?

HC
12-11-2011, 12:58 AM
Well I guess it's time for the Pacers to tank so that the lottery can screw them also.

Scot Pollard
12-11-2011, 01:00 AM
Wow I'm mad.

Pacerized
12-11-2011, 01:01 AM
I can't get the link to open, but I don't see how the Knicks can afford Crawford. After signing Chandler they should be capped out. I don't think Crawford would sign for whats left of their MLE after signing Bibby.

King Tuts Tomb
12-11-2011, 01:01 AM
There is no longer any loyalty

I was recently reading Halberstram's "Breaks of the Game" and the owners were complaining about this exact same problem, in 1977.

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 01:02 AM
Well, maybe we'll pick up a scrap or two. Of course, our players are probably as good as the scraps. It's no wonder there's not a big talent difference between our bench and starters. All scraps.

pacer4ever
12-11-2011, 01:05 AM
I was recently reading Halberstram's "Breaks of the Game" and the owners were complaining about this exact same problem, in 1977.

ya players back in the 70s demanded trades like they do now just to certain teams. It just isnt well know because back then the league wasn't very popular comparatively and technology

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 01:06 AM
I was recently reading Halberstram's "Breaks of the Game" and the owners were complaining about this exact same problem, in 1977.

They were right back then too. The league had 4 teams share 10 championships. But it's getting worse now in terms of loyalty. There isn't any at all.

King Tuts Tomb
12-11-2011, 01:06 AM
He didn't trimmed bad contracts he just let them expired, huge difference, by the way I would like to know what the plan is, to let our young players get old so we can start another 5 years rebuilding plan?

People seem to underestimate how good a job Larry has done over the last five years. This franchise was almost destroyed by the ugliest brawl in the history of American professional sports. And yet, we never won less than thirty games, we were constantly drafting high level talent later in the draft than almost anyone else, and we never tanked or bottomed out.

I take a lot of pride in the fact that it would have been really easy for Larry to throw a season away and try and win a lottery but he never did that. He did his job and tried to field a competitive basketball team. I truly respect that.

pacer4ever
12-11-2011, 01:06 AM
Well I guess it's time for the Pacers to tank so that the lottery can screw them also.

you cant get screwed anymore if you finish bottom 3 your almost guaranteed a top 4 pick.

Mourning
12-11-2011, 01:08 AM
Must admit that lack of FA signings on our part hasn't worried me one iota. Aside from Nene there is no 'must get' that fits what we are doing. Crawford, West, Landry, are luxuries but not necessities - hardly the difference between contending and not. Our cap space will turn out being valuable in a trading scenario and that is where will see the benefit on the roster.

Once the free and easy money is gone in the next 48hrs on the FA market we will become players.

That's not the point beying made. The point is that IF it were a good FA-class and we really wanted to sign a decent to good FA from it then the chances of getting that guy are so slim it looks more like us and most smaller market teams get the scrumbs, while the big mother *****ing market teams just take what they please, whether well or badly managed. It feels like we and most other smaller market teams are token players.

We can only trade, but FA not even beying a realistic option to us for acquiring a good FA, because they ALL go to big market teams whether they have the cap room or not, makes us severely handicapped in our abilities and options to get to much higher levels. I almost feel like we are beying cheated here.

HC
12-11-2011, 01:09 AM
you cant get screwed anymore if you finish bottom 3 your almost guaranteed a top 4 pick.

Is this new?

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 01:11 AM
People seem to underestimate how good a job Larry has done over the last five years. This franchise was almost destroyed by the ugliest brawl in the history of American professional sports. And yet, we never won less than thirty games, we were constantly drafting high level talent later in the draft than almost anyone else, and we never tanked or bottomed out.

I take a lot of pride in the fact that it would have been really easy for Larry to throw a season away and try and win a lottery but he never did that. He did his job and tried to field a competitive basketball team. I truly respect that.

I agree with this. He's done a fine job. We are a better team. He will be judged, however, on how he handles the next year or two. It's going to be more difficult and the more challenging decisions...like this free agency situation...are now going to be the test. Ignoring context of the situation and state of the team and simply concluding that a player isn't worth the money in a vacuum isn't necessarily going to lead to the right decision.

Mourning
12-11-2011, 01:11 AM
I can't get the link to open, but I don't see how the Knicks can afford Crawford. After signing Chandler they should be capped out. I don't think Crawford would sign for whats left of their MLE after signing Bibby.

I wouldn't be surprised if he suddenly wouldn't mind so much all of a sudden...

pacer4ever
12-11-2011, 01:11 AM
Is this new?

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2011/04/reminder_on_how_the_nba_draft.html


The first three selections are determined via a lottery, and the remaining picks are determined by order of regular-season finish. That means, at worst, the Timberwolves will get the fourth pick in this draft.

I think it is a few years old. If someone moves up you just move down one slot. So it was highly unlikely Twolves got the 4th pick. They got unlucky this year and got the 2nd pick defiantly an improvement. In the past the team with the worst record could drop really low.

TMJ31
12-11-2011, 01:13 AM
Yea, this "Free Agent Period" (Which I will rename "Coastal Team Collusion Period") is just ridiculous and frustrating.

And all the fans of "those" teams still have the nerve to think they are getting screwed.

Ugh!

Pacerized
12-11-2011, 01:14 AM
I don't buy into this rumour since it just doesn't add up financially.
There is no way we should assume that our money isn't just as good as someone elses unless we find a F.A. that we're willing to offer a max contract to and he doesn't choose us.
Right now I think we're still very much in the Nene sweepstakes. If we lose out I think it will only be because some other team was willing to overpay more then we were. It's just money, it's not the team.

I don't think I can remember a time when PD was this collectively negative.
After the brawl people were more pissed off then depressed.
Give it some time, and give Larry a chance.

Scot Pollard
12-11-2011, 01:14 AM
Do the Knicks really need Jamal Crawford?

Is Landry Fields not good enough because he's not really that big of a name?

King Tuts Tomb
12-11-2011, 01:16 AM
He will be judged, however, on how he handles the next year or two. It's going to be more difficult and the more challenging decisions

Totally agree with this. Everything Larry has done for the past five years has been leading up to this. I trust him to do it the right away.

HC
12-11-2011, 01:16 AM
http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2011/04/reminder_on_how_the_nba_draft.html



I think it is a few years old. If someone moves up you just move down one slot. So it was highly unlikely Twolves got the 4th pick. They got unlucky this year and got the 2nd pick defiantly an improvement. In the past the team with the worst record could drop really low.

That looks really old. Wierd..I could of sworn I've seen teams with the most balls drop to at least 5.

Scot Pollard
12-11-2011, 01:18 AM
Yes, I still have full trust in Bird to do the right things.

If Crawford turns out to not go to the Knicks, then I hope Bird gets right in.

But it's up to Bird if he feels it's right.

tadscout
12-11-2011, 01:20 AM
Do the Knicks really need Jamal Crawford?

Is Landry Fields not good enough because he's not really that big of a name?


johnhollinger (http://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=johnhollinger) Calm down NYC. Any sign-and-trade for Crawford puts the Hawks in the luxury tax. Non-starter.

Thy can't/ most likely not be able too... was a pipe dream pretty much.

Willbo
12-11-2011, 01:20 AM
Woe is me (us)....

I understand that the lockout has made the whole competitive balance issue prominent in our minds but lets not degenerate into a bunch of 'they are out to get us' tin-foil hat wearing types that dont acknowledge that this team has made decisions and operated competitively in this market.

Yes, there are variables at play that mean that it is more difficult for the Pacers to regularly contend. But this is not European Soccer. Over the last decade we have twice been in positions to contend and have fallen short due to not being good enough. Fair enough. Thems the breaks.

But the current wave of 'woe is me' sentiment is totally over the top. A lackluster FA group is being pillaged by the rich. Boo Hoo. We have to be better. Its harder, yes, about that there is no doubt, but isnt that part of the romance of this franchise? Against the odds, the underdog, taking it to the big boys and being very sucessfull. For a team whose talisman was the embodiment of this attitude, Reggie Miller, it saddens me that the culture of the fan base seems to be about 'how unfair it is what is happening to us' when it historically has been about 'what we are going to do to you'.

Ill take our lot and the history of this franchise every time over the whinging of the Dan Gilbert's of this world. That is why you watch games you seemingly have no chance of winning, that is why you keep putting money into a dream. When we win we do it thanks to nobody else, and I wouldnt have it any other way.

Now bring on the opening tip, this pent up aggression would be best directed at our opposition rather than ourselves and the NBA.

/endrant

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 01:20 AM
People seem to underestimate how good a job Larry has done over the last five years. This franchise was almost destroyed by the ugliest brawl in the history of American professional sports. And yet, we never won less than thirty games, we were constantly drafting high level talent later in the draft than almost anyone else, and we never tanked or bottomed out.

I take a lot of pride in the fact that it would have been really easy for Larry to throw a season away and try and win a lottery but he never did that. He did his job and tried to field a competitive basketball team. I truly respect that.

We finished 8th last year, if you call that a good job, good for you I guess.

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 01:22 AM
I don't buy into this rumour since it just doesn't add up financially.
There is no way we should assume that our money isn't just as good as someone elses unless we find a F.A. that we're willing to offer a max contract to and he doesn't choose us.
Right now I think we're still very much in the Nene sweepstakes. If we lose out I think it will only be because some other team was willing to overpay more then we were. It's just money, it's not the team.

I don't think I can remember a time when PD was this collectively negative.
After the brawl people were more pissed off then depressed.
Give it some time, and give Larry a chance.

Are you really asking me to give it some time?

Hicks
12-11-2011, 01:23 AM
So basically, we better hope Paul George is ****ing awesome.

Well, that as well as that he REALLY likes playing for the Blue and Gold in the coming years, enough to not want to demand a trade or leave in free agency.....

TMJ31
12-11-2011, 01:23 AM
Yes, I still have full trust in Bird to do the right things.


I trust Bird as well.

I am just so beyond frustrated that Larry doesn't seem to be able to DO any of the things he wants just as a byproduct of the Pacers geographical location.

Same can be said for many other teams obviously, it's not just us.

EVERY rumor out there is "LA Gearing up to trade for superstar A" "Boston looking to trade for Superstar B" "The Lakers are gift wrapped a trade exception so they can acquire Superstar C"

It's revolting, it's NOT good for the league and it's CERTAINLY not good for the competitive spirit of the league.

Goodness do I miss the days when superstar players WANTED to face off against each other, instead of ganging up on the second tier players.

HC
12-11-2011, 01:25 AM
thats from this years draft i meant the rule is a few years old

The way I read it though I interpreted it as the current rule has been in place since '94. Maybe I need to take another look.

King Tuts Tomb
12-11-2011, 01:26 AM
We finished 8th last year, if you call that a good job, good for you I guess.

Considering the age of our roster and the potential we have in it, I consider it a great success, as long as we continue to build on it this coming season. As I said earlier, the Thunder were an 8th seed two years ago. Gotta walk before you can run.

pacer4ever
12-11-2011, 01:26 AM
The way I read it though I interpreted it as the current rule has been in place since '94. Maybe I need to take another look.

ya it is my bad i just didn't realize that's how it work till a few years ago sorry. 5th is the further est you can fall i think and that is unlikely and you must have 3rd worst record

HC
12-11-2011, 01:27 AM
Well, that as well as that he REALLY likes playing for the Blue and Gold in the coming years, enough to not want to demand a trade or leave in free agency.....

QFT..If you look at the Durant situation it is the same type of deal I think. I'm not comparing the players, only the situation. It seems like the only way for a small market team to get a truly elite player is to draft said player and have him grow within the franchise.

Scot Pollard
12-11-2011, 01:28 AM
I mean, there are 30 teams in the NBA after all.

King Tuts Tomb
12-11-2011, 01:30 AM
EVERY rumor out there is "LA Gearing up to trade for superstar A" "Boston looking to trade for Superstar B" "The Lakers are gift wrapped a trade exception so they can acquire Superstar C"


Because those are some of the biggest media markets on planet earth. The sports media's goal is not to provide accurate information, it is to get as many people as possible in LA to click that link that says "DWIGHT HOWARD TO LAKERS?"

Every superstars is always going to play for the Knicks if you follow media reports, yet the only free agent of note who has signed there in the last 20 years is Amar'e Stoudemire, a very very good, not great player.

Scot Pollard
12-11-2011, 01:33 AM
Thy can't/ most likely not be able too... was a pipe dream pretty much.

So there's hope? :evil:

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 01:35 AM
Considering the age of our roster and the potential we have in it, I consider it a great success, as long as we continue to build on it this coming season. As I said earlier, the Thunder were an 8th seed two years ago. Gotta walk before you can run.

You need to stop comparing the Pacers to the Thunder, they have Westbrook and Durant two players that are in another planet compare to our players.

tadscout
12-11-2011, 01:36 AM
So there's hope? :evil:

Yeah... also with Chicago wanting Rip...

Only team I can see challenging us is the Nets if they don't land D12.

King Tuts Tomb
12-11-2011, 01:37 AM
You need to stop comparing the Pacers to the Thunder, they have Westbrook and Durant two players that are in another planet compare to our players.

Okay, let's do it another way:

Considering the age of our roster and the potential we have in it, I consider it a great success, as long as we continue to build on it this coming season. As I said earlier, the Grizz were an 8th seed last year. Gotta walk before you can run.

idioteque
12-11-2011, 01:39 AM
Well, that as well as that he REALLY likes playing for the Blue and Gold in the coming years, enough to not want to demand a trade or leave in free agency.....

If we build effectively around George he will be as happy here as Durant is in OKC.

BlueNGold
12-11-2011, 01:40 AM
The Pacers have a good young core. But no one on this team is in the top 20 of the league. We aren't going to contend.

Naptown_Seth
12-11-2011, 01:40 AM
The Free Agent market of the NBA is the place failure is made of.

Detroit "won" the FA pool a couple of years ago and now amnesty is being thrown around as an option.

The Pacers "lost" Peja to FA.


You've got to find a way to save some money for next summer too rather than just overpaying for whatever is left on the shelf this year. If anything the cap space works best from a trading standpoint, and trades this early on are going to be tough.

The lockout really wrecked this offseason.

Scot Pollard
12-11-2011, 01:41 AM
Yeah... also with Chicago wanting Rip...

Only team I can see challenging us is the Nets if they don't land D12.

Bird needs to swoop in and get him now. He wants Crawford.

Scot Pollard
12-11-2011, 01:43 AM
You need to stop comparing the Pacers to the Thunder, they have Westbrook and Durant two players that are in another planet compare to our players.

Yeah I'm not usually a naysayer, but I agree.

We aren't close to the Thunder.

The Thunder can very well win a championship.

tadscout
12-11-2011, 01:44 AM
Bird needs to swoop in and get him now. He wants Crawford.

I think we've always been Crawford's #2 landing spot (well neck and neck with NJ)... #1 being a big market team that could be contenders (Chi & NY)...

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 01:57 AM
The Free Agent market of the NBA is the place failure is made of.

Detroit "won" the FA pool a couple of years ago and now amnesty is being thrown around as an option.

The Pacers "lost" Peja to FA.


You've got to find a way to save some money for next summer too rather than just overpaying for whatever is left on the shelf this year. If anything the cap space works best from a trading standpoint, and trades this early on are going to be tough.

The lockout really wrecked this offseason.

I have a feeling that if we don't do anything this year you are going to be able to reuse this post. and the year after that and the year after that......

Scot Pollard
12-11-2011, 02:05 AM
Hopefully we get something done and Crawford comes here.

This rumor sounds like just another way to get the Knicks into the media hype.

I can't imagine they'll have the money to sign him or anyone.

They're already signing Mike Bibby.

edit - Apparently, the Knicks can't even sign their rookie Iman Shumpert because they don't have any cap room left so how the hell are they going to sign Jamal Crawford? They can't S&T for him because that puts the Hawks over the cap. So they're going to need to forget it.

CableKC
12-11-2011, 02:28 AM
Hopefully we get something done and Crawford comes here.

This rumor sounds like just another way to get the Knicks into the media hype.

I can't imagine they'll have the money to sign him or anyone.

They're already signing Mike Bibby.

edit - Apparently, the Knicks can't even sign their rookie Iman Shumpert because they don't have any cap room left so how the hell are they going to sign Jamal Crawford? They can't S&T for him because that puts the Hawks over the cap. So they're going to need to forget it.
The article said it.....the Knicks tried to convince JCraw to take less $$$.

Miller-Time
12-11-2011, 03:02 AM
edit - Apparently, the Knicks can't even sign their rookie Iman Shumpert because they don't have any cap room left so how the hell are they going to sign Jamal Crawford? They can't S&T for him because that puts the Hawks over the cap. So they're going to need to forget it.

First they can sign their rookie no matter what. The signing was just put on hold because if it were made before they signed T.Chandler their capspace for THIS signing would have been smaller. By signing own rookies any team can go over the cap.

Concerning JCraw - they just use their MLE, but as far as I can tell they just have the 2.5mil available, since they got under the cap and hence don't have the 5mil MLE available.
However, I can't see JCraw joining them for this. And a sign and trade with Atlanta doesn't seem to work either.

tadscout
12-11-2011, 03:16 AM
Concerning JCraw - they just use their MLE, but as far as I can tell they just have the 2.5mil available, since they got under the cap and hence don't have the 5mil MLE available.
However, I can't see JCraw joining them for this. And a sign and trade with Atlanta doesn't seem to work either.

They are using the 2.5 exception on Bibby.

Miller-Time
12-11-2011, 03:31 AM
They are using the 2.5 exception on Bibby.

Thought Bibby is a vet minimum signing.

Just had a look over the Knicks board on RealGM, they are talking about a S&T between Atl - NY would give up Tony Douglas...

tadscout
12-11-2011, 03:35 AM
Thought Bibby is a vet minimum signing.

You are right.

CableKC
12-11-2011, 06:19 AM
Thought Bibby is a vet minimum signing.

Just had a look over the Knicks board on RealGM, they are talking about a S&T between Atl - NY would give up Tony Douglas...
How do the Salaries work out there?

Can you do a S&T of a Player at a bigger contract while sending out a Player with a very small contract?

For example, S&T JCraw using the Mini MLEthen trade him to the Knicks for Toney Douglas whose owed only $1.1 mil a year?

Is that even possible? Does a S&T have to have Salaries match when it comes to 2 Teams that are over the Cap?

I'm having trouble here trying to figure out how this will work UNLESS JCraw takes a significant paycut. I know that there is some draw to play for the Knicks....but this is JCraw's last huge contract.....I don't see how he can take a significant paycut in order to play for the Knicks.

Miller-Time
12-11-2011, 06:27 AM
If JCraw will be a Knick, his check will be significant smaller - that's for sure

Scot Pollard
12-11-2011, 11:58 AM
The article said it.....the Knicks tried to convince JCraw to take less $$$.

Good luck with that. :laugh:

Take less money to play a small role.

He'd play a big role with us AND get a nice pay.

docpaul
12-11-2011, 12:04 PM
The Pacers have a good young core. But no one on this team is in the top 20 of the league.

Not yet.

JB24
12-11-2011, 12:19 PM
@NYPost_Berman
Told #Knicks and Hawks working on 3-team deal for Jamal Crawford with Douglas involved in one scenario


http://twitter.com/#!/NYPost_Berman/status/145897766504247297

I'm guessing this is being engineered to pay Crawford what he wants and keep the Hawks under the tax. Has to be with an under-the-cap team if that's the case.

cordobes
12-11-2011, 12:20 PM
If JCraw will be a Knick, his check will be significant smaller - that's for sure

Aren't they reduced to that $2.5 million exception for teams that went under the cap and then run out of room? There's no way whatsoever Crawford takes such a haircut.

I can't see a direct sign'n'trade working either. What kind of salary are the Hawks willing to take?

The only way this gets done is through a 3rd team deal - but that will force the Knicks to give up some assets (some combination of Fields, Douglas, their rookies and picks).

ps - and after posting this I just read that JB24 post with Berman's tweet. Which team may be willing to take in salary for a shot at Douglas? Can the Pacers be players?

pacers74
12-11-2011, 12:22 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/NYPost_Berman/status/145897766504247297

I'm guessing this is being engineered to pay Crawford what he wants and keep the Hawks under the tax. Has to be with an under-the-cap team if that's the case.

Well I don't think we need Tony Douglas. We have Collison and G.Hill.

JB24
12-11-2011, 12:36 PM
Aren't they reduced to that $2.5 million exception for teams that went under the cap and then run out of room? There's no way whatsoever Crawford takes such a haircut.

I can't see a direct sign'n'trade working either. What kind of salary are the Hawks willing to take?

The only way this gets done is through a 3rd team deal - but that will force the Knicks to give up some assets (some combination of Fields, Douglas, their rookies and picks).

ps - and after posting this I just read that JB24 post with Berman's tweet. Which team may be willing to take in salary for a shot at Douglas? Can the Pacers be players?

I'm looking at teams under the cap and none of them make much sense. Denver has Lawson and Miller. Houston has Lowry and Dragic. Pacers have Collison and Hill. Maybe Washington- he could backup Wall and play off the ball at the two.

Justin Tyme
12-11-2011, 01:00 PM
Once the free and easy money is gone in the next 48hrs on the FA market we will become players.


This is what I'm hoping for. I'm hoping Pritchard/Bird/Morway have been burning up the lines looking for good trades. We know they have tried for Nene and Battier in FA, so it's not like they aren't making an effort. Hopefully their effort will come to fruition in the very near future.

I'm trying to take the positive approach, for a change, about your FO ability Mr. Bird, so please don't disappoint me.

Scot Pollard
12-11-2011, 01:04 PM
I don't know why Crawford wants to take less money and a smaller role.

I know he played for the Knicks already, but he's not going to be what he was back when he played for them.

Pacemaker
12-11-2011, 01:05 PM
MikeWellsNBA Mike Wells
As it appears Jamal Crawford may end up n NYC, the Pacers r expected to reach out to Memphis about OJ Mayo again,

Scot Pollard
12-11-2011, 01:12 PM
MikeWellsNBA Mike Wells
As it appears Jamal Crawford may end up n NYC, the Pacers r expected to reach out to Memphis about OJ Mayo again,

S&T for Josh?

Redo.

Pacemaker
12-11-2011, 01:14 PM
S&T for Josh?

Redo.

May be, who knows?

Justin Tyme
12-11-2011, 01:17 PM
Old CBA or new CBA rules, it doesn't matter....what has happened this offseason with Teams like the Knicks and Celtics where they can make any run at any top Tier FAs is beyond ( as Hicks says ) frustrating.

BTW...the new CBA allowed for the Knicks to get Chandler.....they couldn't do it without amnesty-ing Billups.


I was never in favor of the amenesty in the new CBA. It just rewarded teams for their prior stupidity of giving bad contracts.

doctor-h
12-11-2011, 01:17 PM
Ok so we add Crawford at a premium, Landry, and possibly West at a Premium. So we go from 'losers' as you so eloquently put it to what? Slighty less of a 'loser' sans the capacity to make major improvement.

NBA history is littered with beneficial trades for teams with space that remain patient. Likewise it is populated by teams that sprayed their pants at the first sign of cap space.

I am desperate for the team to make aggressive transactions and do not for a moment see how, some 48hrs into this FA signing period, our failure to overpay for players that may not even be starting material means we are either 'passive' or 'always looking for a one sided deal'.

You yourself say George Hill is not the sort of player that will 'put us over the top' well, praytell, who of this FA crop would? Nene would be a massive improvement - but outside of that?
Nene is exactly what we needed. An athletic, strong, talented big guy who could do many different things and also could slide over and play the 5. Which would strenghten two positions greatly. We did not need anything else.

Justin Tyme
12-11-2011, 01:25 PM
Hicks I know you don't want to critice the Pacers so I would do it for you ;) I have a huge problem with the way Larry is doing things, it seems to me like he has way to many untouchables on the team, Danny,Hibbert,Paul George,Tyler,Lance, who knows who else in untouchable? how in the F are you going to make trades if you don't want to trade anybody but the players that nobody else wants? I have a feeling that he is trying to low ball everybody from the GM's on the other teams to the free agents, yes it's good to have somebody who is responsable but this is getting ridiculous, he told us to wait for this amazing days and so far he has not deliver.


Patience! It hasn't even been 2 full days of being able to operate. Lets give the Pacers FO some time to work this out. If it comes that nothing happens, I'll carry the lantern while you and others bring the pitchforks, tar n feathers as we march on Conseco.

DieHard
12-11-2011, 01:27 PM
S&T for Josh?

Redo.

Makes sense for both teams. We are not bringing Josh back anyway, they have interest, and they take Mayo's salary off their cap to make room for Gasol. It's great for us, getting Mayo for pretty much nothing, and really good for Memphis, as they get the big man they're after while saving some much needed coin.

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 01:42 PM
Not much movement means, not trades and no signings, I have a feeling that Nene and the other free agents feel the same way.



MikeWellsNBA Mike Wells
Miller continued: "But there hasn't seemed to be much movement so we've had to look at other opportunities as well."


MikeWellsNBA Mike Wells
Agent Andy Miller on Crawford's situation: "We've had interest in Indiana. We've made it clear they're one of the teams we're considering."

HC
12-11-2011, 01:46 PM
Not much movement means, not trades and no signings, I have a feeling that Nene and the other free agents feel the same way.

Apparently they haven't heard Bird talk about patience.

cordobes
12-11-2011, 01:51 PM
Not much movement means, not trades and no signings, I have a feeling that Nene and the other free agents feel the same way.

Crawford's agent had to look at other opportunities because the interest wasn't mutual, no?

ksuttonjr76
12-11-2011, 01:56 PM
Not much movement means, not trades and no signings, I have a feeling that Nene and the other free agents feel the same way.

Everyone is too busy waiting for Dwight Howard and CP3 to be traded somewhere. Reminds me of last summer. Once Lebron announced that he was going to Miami, there was a flurry of movements then. I wish that I could go NO and Orlando and say "Can you all make a d*mn move already, so we can get busy with ours!".

Justin Tyme
12-11-2011, 01:58 PM
ps - and after posting this I just read that JB24 post with Berman's tweet. Which team may be willing to take in salary for a shot at Douglas? Can the Pacers be players?


What would the Pacers be getting? I don't see anything that the Knicks would be willing to give up that the Pacers need. It must me another team than the Pacers. Besides why would the Pacers want to help the Knicks get Crawford who supposedly the Pacers want?

vnzla81
12-11-2011, 01:59 PM
Crawford's agent had to look at other opportunities because the interest wasn't mutual, no?

Of course, my point is that they were waiting for something to happen in the Pacers front and got tired of waiting, now he is going to NY and would be taking less money.

Justin Tyme
12-11-2011, 02:10 PM
Nene is exactly what we needed. An athletic, strong, talented big guy who could do many different things and also could slide over and play the 5. Which would strenghten two positions greatly. We did not need anything else.


Yes, AND Nene/ANY FA has to WANT to come to the Pacers and play. If they don't want to come, they aren't going to come. They can't be forced to come by Bird.

DaveP63
12-11-2011, 03:16 PM
Two things. One, Bird isn't going to spend it just to spend it. He'll get what he wants eventually. Might not be in your time frame, but it'll happen.

Item two. I'll admit that it feels a lot like the old man who saves up a million dollars but dies without giving it to anyone. But, I'll trust in the front office to either spend it or hold on to it for next year if there's nothing there they want.

cordobes
12-11-2011, 05:04 PM
What would the Pacers be getting? I don't see anything that the Knicks would be willing to give up that the Pacers need. It must me another team than the Pacers. Besides why would the Pacers want to help the Knicks get Crawford who supposedly the Pacers want?

I'm not sure, that's why I asked. Maybe they could be interested in some combo of Douglas, Balkman and Bill Walker with a 2nd rounder if they need salaries to get to the salary floor. To have one Douglas or Walker in an extended try-out at little cost.

Unless the Knicks are willing to offer Fields, they need to trade Douglas+Balkman+Walker to offer Crawford a starting salary that he may start considering.

If Bird was seriously interested in Crawford, he'd have already signed him. Or maybe he's only interested if it's an exceptional bargain.

beast23
12-11-2011, 05:33 PM
Well, looking at the thread title, I guess by now we all know that at least one question has been answered.

We all know "what the *bleep* our cap space is good for". Right?

I guess after watching "Parenthood" for the umpteenth time the other day, I can really relate. Sure and simple, I like the "roller coaster".

Our emotions have been all over the place. But one thing's for sure, our emotions during this FA session have never remained stable. Up, down, up down. It's been great. And, it has taught us all a little bit about patience. I for one am glad that Larry Bird is much more patient than the rest of us. Nearly all of us would have been financially broke by now.

Scot Pollard
12-11-2011, 05:37 PM
Woo!

I'm don't even care if we get Crawford anymore. I've warmed up to the idea of getting Mayo again.

If we get Crawford, great. If we don't and wind up with Mayo (which seems much more likely) than even better.

Hicks
12-12-2011, 12:56 AM
I'm happy about the West deal.

But make no mistake, this doesn't happen if Stern doesn't veto the LAL/NO/HOU trade. JO would have gone to Dallas using the TE (don't have a link, read it earlier and moved on) in a 3-way trade to get West to Boston before he/we could change our mind(s).

I'd like to think I'm wrong, but I don't.