PDA

View Full Version : Should we overpay for Nene?



Hicks
12-10-2011, 12:36 PM
Decided to take a poll.

Allegedly Bird's limit was 14m per year. So with that in mind, more than 14 is what I will define as overpay in this case.

cordobes
12-10-2011, 12:40 PM
IMO Bird was already willing to overpay and someone decided to overpay even more.

Lance George
12-10-2011, 12:40 PM
If their limit was $14M, and they honestly believe Nene takes us to another level, then I'd go up to $15M.

However, if the asking price continued to escalate, I'd drop out.

Sparhawk
12-10-2011, 12:49 PM
I think $14M would have been too high.

$11-$12M would be as high as I'd go.

I don't blame Bird. If we don't make any moves, it's only because the big market teams abuse the system to get what they want and team just overpaying by a large amount for a player.

vnzla81
12-10-2011, 12:50 PM
Of course you overpay a bit, like I've said before, if they were willing to pay 14mil, 2 and 3 mil shouldn't make that much difference, they can even amnesty DJ if they wanted to, getting Nene this year could have put the Pacers on the map as one of the best teams in the east and maybe then we could have been able to dream to bring a big name here as the last piece in the future, instead now we are gonna have to wait for a big team to clear cap space so we can get our hands in their crappy contracts.

Lance George
12-10-2011, 12:51 PM
NetsDaily NetsDaily.com
Nets offer to Nene is NOT $70m. More like $64m. Starting at a little above $15. You guys are reading wrong story.

That takes the per-season salary average down from $17.5M to $16M. Less insane, but still overpaying.

owl
12-10-2011, 12:52 PM
Isn't there a max that is allowed under the CBA? Is so what is that?

Steagles
12-10-2011, 12:54 PM
If it averages to under 17 mil a year, and is super front loaded, I'd sign that.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

Justin Tyme
12-10-2011, 12:55 PM
With the report the Nets have offered 4/70, 17.5 per year, I'm not interested in getting into a bidding war for Nene's services. Bird is right by not doing it. AND we all know I don't often say Bird is right about something. I'm adopting the Bird philosophy of PATIENCE. Find a player/players thru a trade or two.

Ozwalt72
12-10-2011, 12:55 PM
Was on board with overpaying....but then I started thinking about how I'd rather have Elton Brand's contract for the two years it has left.

PacerPenguins
12-10-2011, 12:57 PM
i wpuld pay nene 17 million but thats all..... he would be a real gamechanger for the pacers and would greatly affect the future of this franchise.... we would be top 5 in the east without question......

Sparhawk
12-10-2011, 01:03 PM
i wpuld pay nene 17 million but thats all..... he would be a real gamechanger for the pacers and would greatly affect the future of this franchise.... we would be top 5 in the east without question......

How is Nene a game changer? I guess I don't see it for a guy that never averaged more than 8 boards. I'm sure the eye test might be better, but he doesn't seem to be a good rebounder at all.

I'd rather try and trade for Okafor. At least Okafor plays good D and has been a pretty constant averaging 10boards.

Or go after Josh Smith (probably need a 3rd team) or Milsap. Hell, I'd rather trade for Jason Thompson/Jordan Hill than over pay by that large of an amount.

Hicks
12-10-2011, 01:12 PM
He's a game changer because of what his presence does to the rest of our team. He makes us much bigger, he gives us a much needed big, strong, athletic finisher at the 4, he gives us two strong options at the C spot. That would have a DRAMATIC effect on this team, IMO.

luis3ep
12-10-2011, 01:13 PM
For that high price i'd rather take someone younger who'll be a little cheaper. My top 2 choices are Milsapp and Josh Smith. Smith will probably be a little pricier but worth it. Nene is 29. and Josh Smith way younger with more upside.

Scot Pollard
12-10-2011, 01:14 PM
Bird made the right move for a guy like Nene.

14M is a good max.

The Nets pulled a major risk.

Don't get me wrong I really wanted Nene, but for the price the Nets paid, no thanks.

vnzla81
12-10-2011, 01:14 PM
With the report the Nets have offered 4/70, 17.5 per year, I'm not interested in getting into a bidding war for Nene's services. Bird is right by not doing it. AND we all know I don't often say Bird is right about something. I'm adopting the Bird philosophy of PATIENCE. Find a player/players thru a trade or two.

The report says 65mil, either way I am going to keep beating the same drum, many people here don't want to trade anybody and to make a trade we are gonna have to trade somebody, if overpaying Nene 3mil more a year let's you keep your core intact you do it.

OK let's make a trade for Millsap and then we have to send at least one young player+picks, nice we have our PF but now we need to pay for another center because Milsap can't play center, how much extra we are going to pay for a decent center? by looking at some of the contracts signed yesterday a center is not getting less than 7mil a year, so Ok now we traded our young player and picks to get Milsap 7mil(Hans,DC,Hill,Rush,Hibbert,etc) plus the new center at around 7mil so at the end of the day we ended up paying 14/15mil a year for two players instead of one and lost a young player+ pick, is it worth it to do all this to save 3mil? I don't think so.

HC
12-10-2011, 01:15 PM
Nene must be feeling extremely wanted simmering away on that back burner while NJ chases Howard.

thyrsis
12-10-2011, 01:16 PM
If the Pacers thought he was a real gamechanger at a position of real need, why NOT overpay? Wouldn't his value to the Pacers be awfully high?

The numbers seem like arbitrary cutoffs. What puts us over the cap? Do we really need more players? If not, why NOT pay $18 mil if necessary (if we think he's the best guy available)? Why is 14 or 15 too much?

Paying $10 for somebody who's not as good but seems to have a fairer price tag doesn't strike me as a sure path to the top half of the East. But that's why I ask what the goal is.

Justin Tyme
12-10-2011, 01:16 PM
Anderson Varejao looks better everyday. He solves the b/u C enter situation and can start or b/u the PF spot. He's a tuff smashmouth energy player who can bring the "D". He does not interfer with Hibbert's "O", and helps Hibbert in the paint with the "D". He's got a very reasonable type of contract. JMOAA


Seriously, who would want to look forward to playing against the Pacers with Foster, Hans, and Varejao tuffness?

Hicks
12-10-2011, 01:18 PM
Woah, wait. Is this true??

NetsDaily.com @NetsDaily 9 mins Reply Retweeted Favorite Open
From @chadfordinsider last night. Max for Nene, $15.5M. That's roughly $64M over 4. tinyurl.com/7aq77k3

@chadfordinsider
Following

Max deal #'s under new CBA: 25% is $12.9 M (i.e. Gasol) … 30% is $15.5 M (ie. Nene) … 35% is $18.1 M (player with 10+ yr service)

The MOST Nene can get from anyone but Denver is a deal starting at $15.5m???

vnzla81
12-10-2011, 01:20 PM
Woah, wait. Is this true??

NetsDaily.com @NetsDaily 9 mins Reply Retweeted Favorite Open
From @chadfordinsider last night. Max for Nene, $15.5M. That's roughly $64M over 4. tinyurl.com/7aq77k3

@chadfordinsider
Following

Max deal #'s under new CBA: 25% is $12.9 M (i.e. Gasol) … 30% is $15.5 M (ie. Nene) … 35% is $18.1 M (player with 10+ yr service)

The MOST Nene can get from anyone but Denver is a deal starting at $15.5m???

Yes I posted that at the Nene thread yesterday, I think you can start at 15.5 and go up for up to 4years

Justin Tyme
12-10-2011, 01:21 PM
The report says 65mil, either way I am going to keep beating the same drum, many people here don't want to trade anybody and to make a trade we are gonna have to trade somebody, if overpaying Nene 3mil more a year let's you keep your core intact you do it.

OK let's make a trade for Millsap and then we have to send at least one young player+picks, nice we have our PF but now we need to pay for another center because Milsap can't play center, how much extra we are going to pay for a decent center? by looking at some of the contracts signed yesterday a center is not getting less than 7mil a year, so Ok now we traded our young player and picks to get Milsap 7mil(Hans,DC,Hill,Rush,Hibbert,etc) plus the new center at around 7mil so at the end of the day we ended up paying 14/15mil a year for two players instead of one and lost a young player+ pick, is it worth it to do all this to save 3mil? I don't think so.


Shame on you, of all people, for forgetting Varejao.

Wage
12-10-2011, 01:21 PM
In my opinion anything over $10 million a year is overpaying. Anything at $14 million or above is borderline criminal incompetance.

purdue101
12-10-2011, 01:22 PM
I'll repost from the Nene thread.

I don't think NJ has formally offerred him anything - how could they when they are in the Dwight Howard sweepstakes? Signing Nene would take them out of that. If all that money was on the table, Nene would have signed already.

I'm sure the Nets have told him Dwight is their priority, but if it falls through they will compensate him more than what other teams are offering. Nene is just in a waiting game now. If NJ lands Dwight, game over, and suddenly our offer (or Denver or Houston) now becomes his best option.

Gasol is likely in the same boat. Memphis has likely low-balled him and would rather match an offer, however teams like Indy, Houston, etc., are all waiting on Nene, who is waiting on Dwight.

Once Dwight's fate is decided, all the dominos will fall

vnzla81
12-10-2011, 01:26 PM
Shame on you, of all people, for forgetting Varejao.

Hey you know I love Varejao, I am just not sure how healthy he is after not playing much last year, I want to see him playing first before making a decision.

Justin Tyme
12-10-2011, 01:28 PM
He's a game changer because of what his presence does to the rest of our team. He makes us much bigger, he gives us a much needed big, strong, athletic finisher at the 4, he gives us two strong options at the C spot. That would have a DRAMATIC effect on this team, IMO.


I here ya, but I just can't see 17 mil or more to get him. Unless the 4th year is a Team Option, which I highly doubt he'd be willing to do. It's a hard tuff decision, and one I'm glad I don't have to be the one to make.

Justin Tyme
12-10-2011, 01:36 PM
The Pacers have until March the 15th to find the right pieces to the puzzle. Getting caught up in the heat of a bidding war isn't prudent way to do things IMO.

What is the date that you can trade a signed FA this year?

imawhat
12-10-2011, 01:39 PM
He's a game changer because of what his presence does to the rest of our team. He makes us much bigger, he gives us a much needed big, strong, athletic finisher at the 4, he gives us two strong options at the C spot. That would have a DRAMATIC effect on this team, IMO.

I think a lot of his talent gets minimized until we gt a true point guard that can deliver the ball in transition or set up easy buckets in half court. For example, Josh is an amazing finisher who will look much, much better on the Lakers (if they get Paul) or Grizzlies.

The opposite will happen here. Nene is not a shot creator and Karl's offense was designed effectively to maximize Nene's strengths.

I hope we get him because he appears to be the best available piece, but I think his production will drop without someone like Rondo here.

imawhat
12-10-2011, 01:42 PM
The Pacers have until March the 15th to find the right pieces to the puzzle. Getting caught up in the heat of a bidding war isn't prudent way to do things IMO.

What is the date that you can trade a signed FA this year?

This is crucial. If it were before March 15, the amnesty player strategy would be the best way for us to collect assets, IMO.

vnzla81
12-10-2011, 01:47 PM
This is crucial. If it were before March 15, the amnesty player strategy would be the best way for us to collect assets, IMO.

But are those amnesty players really going to help you to win anything? they are getting amnesty for a reason, they could be nice additions if you want to complement the players you have but they shouldn't be "the additions".

2minutes twoa
12-10-2011, 02:44 PM
Overpaying is a slippery slope. Let's say you pay Nene $17m a year. Then, when Hibbert is due an extension, he sees that his numbers are similar to Nene's. So guess what, Roy feels he deserves $17m a year. Slightly overpaying is one thing, but it will effect the other players on the team.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.061492,-85.533822

Justin Tyme
12-10-2011, 02:52 PM
Overpaying is a slippery slope. Let's say you pay Nene $17m a year. Then, when Hibbert is due an extension, he sees that his numbers are similar to Nene's. So guess what, Roy feels he deserves $17m a year. Slightly overpaying is one thing, but it will effect the other players on the team.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.061492,-85.533822



More likely Hibbert's agent feels he's worth 17 mil and starts filling his head with jumping ship for more money.

vnzla81
12-10-2011, 02:54 PM
More likely Hibbert's agent feels he's worth 17 mil and starts filling his head with jumping ship for more money.

The Max for Hibbert would be like 12.5mil

idioteque
12-10-2011, 03:03 PM
If he was on the other side of 30 and I knew we had enough money to keep Hibbert and George, yes. But that's not the case.

Lance George
12-10-2011, 03:20 PM
If he was on the other side of 30 and I knew we had enough money to keep Hibbert and George, yes. But that's not the case.

Nene's only 29, and wont turn 30 until next season's training camp (September 13).

11-12: 29
12-13: 30
13-14: 31
14-15: 32

That's not bad, age-wise. Even if he declines at 32, he'll be a large expiring contract by that point.

ksuttonjr76
12-10-2011, 04:09 PM
Who's going to blink first between Indiana and New Jersey? On paper, both teams have the right team makeup where Nene would be a great addition to either team. He should come to Indiana though, because our players will be around longer.

xIndyFan
12-10-2011, 04:19 PM
Woah, wait. Is this true??

NetsDaily.com @NetsDaily 9 mins Reply Retweeted Favorite Open
From @chadfordinsider last night. Max for Nene, $15.5M. That's roughly $64M over 4. tinyurl.com/7aq77k3

@chadfordinsider
Following

Max deal #'s under new CBA: 25% is $12.9 M (i.e. Gasol) 30% is $15.5 M (ie. Nene) 35% is $18.1 M (player with 10+ yr service)

The MOST Nene can get from anyone but Denver is a deal starting at $15.5m???

FWIW, chad ford's numbers, 12.9, 15.5 and 18.1 are the pro-rated amounts for this season. the salary cap numbers are still 14.5, 17.4 and 20.2 or so. the salary cap hits are still 25% of 58 = 14.5, 30% of 58 = 17.4.

nene has a max cap number of 30% which is about 17.5 or so. that gives him a total max contract amount of $74M or so. [base of 17.5 and raises of 4.5% for 4 years.]

BlueNGold
12-10-2011, 04:55 PM
Here are the reasons why I think we should overpay up to 16-17M/yr:

1) Granger is entering his prime now. The next 4 years are crucial.
2) Nene is an incredibly efficient offensive player scoring over 60% from the field.
3) Nene provides a quality big front-line with Hibbert. He's 6'11", not pretending to be a big. David West is a pretender and so are most. Good luck facing the Laker front-line or any of the contenders with your miniature PF.
4) Nene can play C when a mismatch gives Hibbert problems. Tyler shifts right next to Nene for a small front-line. He is just a great complement for both Hans and Hibbs.
5) 4 years is not forever. I find it odd that we are now concerned about this contract after paying many bench players 8-12M/yr to stink. One Nene costs less than two of these guys and will get us twice as many wins.
6) We paid well over 20M/yr for a PF who shot 44% from the floor and only played half the games. Now, that contract was bad!

thatch3232
12-10-2011, 05:39 PM
Here are the reasons why I think we should overpay up to 16-17M/yr:

1) Granger is entering his prime now. The next 4 years are crucial.
2) Nene is an incredibly efficient offensive player scoring over 60% from the field.
3) Nene provides a quality big front-line with Hibbert. He's 6'11", not pretending to be a big. David West is a pretender and so are most. Good luck facing the Laker front-line or any of the contenders with your miniature PF.
4) Nene can play C when a mismatch gives Hibbert problems. Tyler shifts right next to Nene for a small front-line. He is just a great complement for both Hans and Hibbs.
5) 4 years is not forever. I find it odd that we are now concerned about this contract after paying many bench players 8-12M/yr to stink. One Nene costs less than two of these guys and will get us twice as many wins.
6) We paid well over 20M/yr for a PF who shot 44% from the floor and only played half the games. Now, that contract was bad!

I agree with all of these things and would love to have him, but past patterns and what Larry said in the press conference leads me to believe that there is no chance we 'overpay' for Nene.

Major Cold
12-10-2011, 06:16 PM
Starting PF should cost 8-10 million. Solid Center reserve 5-7 million. Nene would have been worth 15 Million.

Hicks
12-10-2011, 06:22 PM
FWIW, chad ford's numbers, 12.9, 15.5 and 18.1 are the pro-rated amounts for this season. the salary cap numbers are still 14.5, 17.4 and 20.2 or so. the salary cap hits are still 25% of 58 = 14.5, 30% of 58 = 17.4.

nene has a max cap number of 30% which is about 17.5 or so. that gives him a total max contract amount of $74M or so. [base of 17.5 and raises of 4.5% for 4 years.]

I guess I don't understand 'pro-rated'. ?

BlueNGold
12-10-2011, 06:24 PM
Starting PF should cost 8-10 million. Solid Center reserve 5-7 million. Nene would have been worth 15 Million.

I like how you are thinking, but I would adjust that slightly.

Nene, as a PF is worth a solid 12M as your starter. He will play C at least 10 minutes a game and that's probably worth 4-5M in my book.

Consider this. West could not play PF and is injured. At most, I'd be willing to throw 7-8M at him. Too risky and quite honestly doesn't add much when you have Tyler available....and quite frankly Granger is probably capable of playing there some minutes.

Milsap would be a consolation prize. Good player, but the drawback is that he cannot play C legitimately.

Nene is probably the best big the Pacers are going to have a shot at for a 2 or 3 years...and I'm afraid we will not have a better chance in Granger's prime...

Wage
12-10-2011, 06:28 PM
I guess I don't understand 'pro-rated'. ?

I would assume it means that since this is a shortened season, the first year of contracts signed this offseason will be reduced (like everyone else's contract this year) to compensate for the missed games.

For example:

We will be playing roughly 80% of the normal 82 games this year. That would mean that a $15.5 million dollar contract X 80% would equal 12.4 million dollars this season. I would assume for cap purposes the contract would still be considered a $15.5 million dollar contract the first year.

able
12-10-2011, 06:29 PM
Here are the reasons why I think we should overpay up to 16-17M/yr:

1) Granger is entering his prime now. The next 4 years are crucial.
2) Nene is an incredibly efficient offensive player scoring over 60% from the field.
3) Nene provides a quality big front-line with Hibbert. He's 6'11", not pretending to be a big. David West is a pretender and so are most. Good luck facing the Laker front-line or any of the contenders with your miniature PF.
4) Nene can play C when a mismatch gives Hibbert problems. Tyler shifts right next to Nene for a small front-line. He is just a great complement for both Hans and Hibbs.
5) 4 years is not forever. I find it odd that we are now concerned about this contract after paying many bench players 8-12M/yr to stink. One Nene costs less than two of these guys and will get us twice as many wins.
6) We paid well over 20M/yr for a PF who shot 44% from the floor and only played half the games. Now, that contract was bad!


I don't agree with you and I'll keep it at that, I think 14 was overpaying, but market determines real value, not what we think.
However I have a question, who's that PF you refer to in 6 ?

Major Cold
12-10-2011, 06:36 PM
However I have a question, who's that PF you refer to in 6 ?

http://www.enterprisenews.com/archive/x1143352670/g12c000000000000000818eec50dc06e4e1ad8c840c1bfb0b4 613072794.jpg

able
12-10-2011, 06:39 PM
http://www.enterprisenews.com/archive/x1143352670/g12c000000000000000818eec50dc06e4e1ad8c840c1bfb0b4 613072794.jpg

well that would be wrong, he never made that kind of money in Indiana, he was traded the year he threatened making 19.2 million and while we can argue JO after his injuries, when he signed for 13 mio starting max contract, he was worth it and others were ready to give it to him as well.

but 13 starting, and you are prepared to give 17 starting to Nene? for 4 years ? JO was a double double player when he got that contract, Nene is not even close to that class.

BlueNGold
12-10-2011, 06:43 PM
I don't agree with you and I'll keep it at that, I think 14 was overpaying, but market determines real value, not what we think.
However I have a question, who's that PF you refer to in 6 ?

Ok. JO played 42 games his last year and shot 44% from the floor.

Historically he may have been more like 65% of his games and average out to 45% his last 5 years. Still I hope no one thinks that was a good contract.

In contrast, Nene has averaged 78 games a year and over 60% from the floor for the last 3 years.

Major Cold
12-10-2011, 06:45 PM
well that would be wrong, he never made that kind of money in Indiana, he was traded the year he threatened making 19.2 million .

:rolleyes:

BlueNGold
12-10-2011, 06:46 PM
well that would be wrong, he never made that kind of money in Indiana, he was traded the year he threatened making 19.2 million and while we can argue JO after his injuries, when he signed for 13 mio starting max contract, he was worth it and others were ready to give it to him as well.

but 13 starting, and you are prepared to give 17 starting to Nene? for 4 years ? JO was a double double player when he got that contract, Nene is not even close to that class.

Murphy is the double double king. Now what was your point?

Jermaine was a good player and might have been worth his original contract. He had far more potential than Nene. In this instance, however, I'm agreeing that this would be overpaying. The difference, however, is that sometimes you have to overpay to make real progress. The Pacers are going to be hard pressed to avoid that, particularly when talent is concentrating in other places...

able
12-10-2011, 07:04 PM
Ok. JO played 42 games his last year and shot 44% from the floor.

Historically he may have been more like 65% of his games and average out to 45% his last 5 years. Still I hope no one thinks that was a good contract.

In contrast, Nene has averaged 78 games a year and over 60% from the floor for the last 3 years.

71.96 % over all 8 years

94% over the 1st 4 years
63% over the last 4 years

numbers also influenced by 15 games suspension, not taken out

salary over the 1st 4 years

6,325
6,900
13,152
14,173


Nene, taken 8 years as well, starting his 2nd year (9 year vet)

68.17 over tall 8 years

1st 4 years 60.06%
last 4 years 76.22%


sources patricia and basketballreference

able
12-10-2011, 07:10 PM
The difference, however, is that sometimes you have to overpay to make real progress. The Pacers are going to be hard pressed to avoid that, particularly when talent is concentrating in other places...

In part i want to give you that one, which is why i agreed to say 14 mio for Nene, but that is indeed the absolutge max and already seriously overpaid.
I dont care who signs him for more, they will come to regret it.

he plays a physical part in a contact sport, and he is 29 with a history.

JO never really recovered from the 04-05 injury/suspension, yet in the 2 following years he still gave us close to 20/10

he really dropped of when he turned 29 and that is not unfamiliar for PF's

xIndyFan
12-10-2011, 07:15 PM
I guess I don't understand 'pro-rated'. ?

there are only 66 games this year so salaries are reduced to 66/82 of their normal value.

example. salary cap = $58M. max salary of 25% is 58 x 25% = 14.5. 14.5 is the cap number. but this year the players will not get their full salary because the league only plays 66 games. the salary is pro-rated for that 66 game by taking the 14.5 x 66/82 = 12.9. a guy like marc gasol will only earn 12.9 million this year because the teams play less games than normal.

BlueNGold
12-10-2011, 07:18 PM
I'm not claiming JO, when originally signed, was as overpaid. But his contract became far worse than what Nene's could possibly be.

You disguise the real facts Able. The reality is that he was paid almost 19M a year the last two years in Indiana and was owed well over 20M a year his last two years of his contract signed with Indiana. At that time, he was on the bench about half the time and was owed over 44M the last two years...and his productivity and effectiveness was terrible. Dude never was efficient for us...never over 50% and as a big man that's weak.

Anyway, the point is, his contract was many, many times worse than Nene's contract would be and worse than it could be.

Edit: BTW, technically we didn't pay JO 44+ million his last two years since he was traded, but in reality we committed to it. There is a cost there that we did incur.

Really?
12-10-2011, 07:48 PM
If we can get him for 15, then I would, it would be valuable for our team, if we want to contend then we need to act like it and make the moves.

CableKC
12-10-2011, 08:49 PM
Anderson Varejao looks better everyday. He solves the b/u C enter situation and can start or b/u the PF spot. He's a tuff smashmouth energy player who can bring the "D". He does not interfer with Hibbert's "O", and helps Hibbert in the paint with the "D". He's got a very reasonable type of contract. JMOAA


Seriously, who would want to look forward to playing against the Pacers with Foster, Hans, and Varejao tuffness?
I know that you'd love to get SideShow Bob....but despite the assumption that the Cavs are rebuilding, SideShow Bob...is owed roughly $36+ mil over the next 4 seasons....which IMHO...is a fairly good price for a Startinq quality Center. IMHO....he's a good piece to have as a foundation for a rebuilding Team like the Cavs.

Ignoring that....if he could be had....how much would you be willing to give up to get him?

I'd think that it would minimally cost a 1st+TPE+Prospect to get him....IMHO...he's not going to be had for mere capspace and I doubt that adding a 1st round pick would make much of a difference.

I'm not disagreeing with you that he's a great Player to have...I'm just saying that I think that he will come at a cost that we may not want to pay.

Justin Tyme
12-10-2011, 09:01 PM
I know that you'd love to get SideShow Bob....but despite the assumption that the Cavs are rebuilding, SideShow Bob...is owed roughly $36+ mil over the next 4 seasons....which IMHO...is a fairly good price for a Startinq quality Center. IMHO....he's a good piece to have as a foundation for a rebuilding Team like the Cavs.

Ignoring that....if he could be had....how much would you be willing to give up to get him?

I'd think that it would minimally cost a 1st+TPE+Prospect to get him....IMHO...he's not going to be had for mere capspace and I doubt that adding a 1st round pick would make much of a difference.

I'm not disagreeing with you that he's a great Player to have...I'm just saying that I think that he will come at a cost that we may not want to pay.



Varejao's 4th year is either a TO or not guaranteed. Which makes his contract even better.

They just drafted PF Tristan Thompson, so my feeling is a combo of a young player (Rush or Stephenson), 1st, and Cap. They are in a rebuilding mode., so who knows.

Pacerized
12-10-2011, 09:02 PM
I can live with Nene at 14, or if Chandler has set the market for Nene with his 58 mil contract, then I could live with that which would average 14.5.
If we land Nene or anyone else I hope we front load the contract. It isn't a big difference from my understanding. A 58 mil contract front loaded would start at 15.4 and go down to 13.5. At least it gives us a little more cap room at the end. At some point we have to draw the line. I think teams overpaying now will be at our mercy in a few years if we can stomach being patient. I think NJ's plan is a flawed one under the new cba.

BlueNGold
12-10-2011, 09:07 PM
I find it odd that we lived with Posey, TJ, Tinsley, Murphy and MDJ being paid something north of 40M a year and have heartburn about spending less than half that much on a much better piece to the puzzle.

Shade
12-10-2011, 09:43 PM
If Dwight is definitely off the market, then I reverse my previous stance and say that, yes, we need to go hard after Nene. Then throw the max at Eric Gordon next year and roll with a team of:

Hibbert
Nene
Granger
Gordon
Collison

That team could do some damage.

pacer4ever
12-10-2011, 09:45 PM
If Dwight is definitely off the market, then I reverse my previous stance and say that, yes, we need to go hard after Nene. Then throw the max at Eric Gordon next year and roll with a team of:

Hibbert
Nene
Granger
Gordon
Collison

That team could do some damage.

unless Herb Simon is gonna pay the tax and deep into the tax that isn't gonna happen regardless if it could happen.

Pacer Fan
12-10-2011, 09:47 PM
14 mil for 12/7....:rolleyes:

Hicks
12-10-2011, 09:50 PM
14 mil for 12/7....:rolleyes:

You're right; we should shoot for a double-double power forward like Troy Murphy. Plus, he shoots way better than Nene.

BlueNGold
12-10-2011, 09:50 PM
Considering we competed well with Chicago and added George Hill and Lance Stephenson...adding Nene could make us a contender. It sounds crazy, but we were a .500 team last year and this could push us up toward contention. At least a shot at the ECF. That's how I see this move. It's going to take more talent guys...and it's not going to get handed to us.

Shade
12-10-2011, 09:51 PM
I find it odd that we lived with Posey, TJ, Tinsley, Murphy and MDJ being paid something north of 40M a year and have heartburn about spending less than half that much on a much better piece to the puzzle.

It's actually because of those toxic deals that some of us are so wary about overpaying for second-tier and lower talent.

Pacer Fan
12-10-2011, 09:52 PM
You're right; we should shoot for a double-double power forward like Troy Murphy. Plus, he shoots way better than Nene.

Where that come from? lil over the top isn't it!

Shade
12-10-2011, 09:53 PM
You're right; we should shoot for a double-double power forward like Troy Murphy. Plus, he shoots way better than Nene.

NEEDZ MOR GREEN

Hicks
12-10-2011, 09:54 PM
Where that come from? lil over the top isn't it!

Honestly, I think it's about as over-the-top as your post.

Shade
12-10-2011, 09:54 PM
unless Herb Simon is gonna pay the tax and deep into the tax that isn't gonna happen regardless if it could happen.

I'd have to crunch the numbers, but I don't see why we can't afford that while other teams can somehow afford to pay 2-3 superstars.

Aw Heck
12-10-2011, 09:55 PM
I want Nene much like everyone else. I just don't want Larry to talk himself into way overpaying Nene just to get him here. We'd have an Okafor situation on our hands. A productive player for sure, but one so overpaid it hamstrings us financially and is basically untradeable.

Shade
12-10-2011, 10:08 PM
I want Nene much like everyone else. I just don't want Larry to talk himself into way overpaying Nene just to get him here. We'd have an Okafor situation on our hands. A productive player for sure, but one so overpaid it hamstrings us financially and is basically untradeable.

The question is, does it really even matter anymore? If players of Nene's calibur are the best we can hope to attract to Indy, then who are we holding our money for?

Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are not walking through that door.

Pacer Fan
12-10-2011, 10:15 PM
Honestly, I think it's about as over-the-top as your post.

You would think that way, Sorry for your poor judgement.

vnzla81
12-10-2011, 10:33 PM
The question is, does it really even matter anymore? If players of Nene's calibur are the best we can hope to attract to Indy, then who are we holding our money for?

Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are not walking through that door.

I've been saying this forever but you know "next year free agents are better"

BlueNGold
12-10-2011, 10:48 PM
The question is, does it really even matter anymore? If players of Nene's calibur are the best we can hope to attract to Indy, then who are we holding our money for?

Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are not walking through that door.

This.

Hello! I think we have a winner.

xBulletproof
12-10-2011, 10:52 PM
The question is, does it really even matter anymore? If players of Nene's calibur are the best we can hope to attract to Indy, then who are we holding our money for?

Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are not walking through that door.

That logic sounds good, but really it supports not overpaying him. If you can't get a superstar, then you need to maximize every dollar to get as many good players as you can get. You don't do that by overpaying one guy like he IS that superstar you can't get.

BlueNGold
12-10-2011, 11:08 PM
That logic sounds good, but really it supports not overpaying him. If you can't get a superstar, then you need to maximize every dollar to get as many good players as you can get. You don't do that by overpaying one guy like he IS that superstar you can't get.

It takes talent to win and we are short of it. Who else is available? Just sit tight and not overpay next summer too?

MaHa3000
12-10-2011, 11:16 PM
Can we just move on from Nene. He's not coming here.

Ozwalt72
12-10-2011, 11:19 PM
Can we just move on from Nene. He's not coming here.

Sure, move from Nene to....what?

Aw Heck
12-10-2011, 11:22 PM
Can we just move on from Nene. He's not coming here.
I would agree with this, but I just saw the revised Chris Paul trade. In the revised version, Houston gets Gasol AND Odom, which hurts Houston's ability to sign Nene.

If the Howard to NJ trade happens, it hurts their ability to sign Nene.

So if both deals happen, Nene's suitors are down to Denver and Indy. Indy could still be outbid by Denver, but at least our chances will have increased.

I'm more optimistic than I was an hour ago.

Pacer Fan
12-10-2011, 11:29 PM
Can we just move on from Nene. He's not coming here.

:notamused:

MaHa3000
12-10-2011, 11:34 PM
I would agree with this, but I just saw the revised Chris Paul trade. In the revised version, Houston gets Gasol AND Odom, which hurts Houston's ability to sign Nene.

If the Howard to NJ trade happens, it hurts their ability to sign Nene.

So if both deals happen, Nene's suitors are down to Denver and Indy. Indy could still be outbid by Denver, but at least our chances will have increased.

I'm more optimistic than I was an hour ago.


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KX5jNnDMfxA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hicks
12-11-2011, 02:35 AM
So apparently the earlier report that Nene was going to wait until the end of the day (Saturday) to make his decision was actually code for, "Nene was waiting for the LAL/NOH/HOU trade to finish so he could sign with the Rockets?"

xBulletproof
12-11-2011, 02:36 AM
Who knows.

A few hours ago Mavs fans were up in arms that Cuban was letting everyone leave and get nothing in return. Now they're getting Odom.

Things change way too fast anymore. I stopped trying to figure it out a couple days ago. I'm just waiting and seeing without blowing my top out of impatience.

Aw Heck
12-11-2011, 02:40 AM
So apparently the earlier report that Nene was going to wait until the end of the day (Saturday) to make his decision was actually code for, "Nene was waiting for the LAL/NOH/HOU trade to finish so he could sign with the Rockets?"
Probably. I think he's waiting for the dust to settle with the CP3 and Howard trades before he makes his decision.

jeffg-body
12-11-2011, 02:45 AM
I would not go above 15 mil for Nene. If we could pull of this coup and get Nene because NJ get Howard I would jump for joy. I think he fits the team perfectly. Add if somehow we could get Rondo as well somehow I'd be peeing my pants even if we have to give up Hans. I would much rather see us giving up Posey, Rush/DC and or draft picks though. If Nene commanded more than that in the open market I would not be too dissappointed though. I think there are other alternatives via trades.