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Hicks
10-28-2004, 09:42 PM
I was talking with Kstat about this earlier, and I'm surprised it never reached PD.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/pistons/0410/28/p05-317673.htm

Thursday, October 28, 2004

Can Pacers end playoff failures?

Indiana must find a way to overcome its lack of depth and size on the front-line

By Terry Foster / The Detroit News

The Indiana Pacers should be the biggest threat to the Pistons for best record in the Eastern Conference and home-court advantage in the playoffs.

But can their coach lead them to a NBA title?

That is the question that will dog Pacers Coach Rick Carlisle until he proves his playoff game is as sound as his regular-season game.

Consider these facts: In three seasons as a head coach with the Pistons and Pacers, Carlisle has won three Central Division titles and compiled a 161-85 record (.654).

The Pistons improved by 18 victories under Carlisle during his first season in Detroit. He guided the Pacers to a 13-victory improvement last season after taking over for Isiah Thomas.

Despite all that regular-season success, Carlisle is a mediocre 22-21 in the playoffs. He guided the Pacers to the Eastern Conference finals, but in a bit of irony, he was ousted by Larry Brown, the man who replaced him in Detroit.

However, if the Pacers fall to the Pistons again this season, factors other than Carlisle’s coaching ability will be involved. Their problem is that they are inadequate on the front line against the deep Pistons.

Center Jermaine O’Neal (20.1 points and 10.0 rebounds in 2003-04) is one of the most talented big men in the league. You could argue that he was the best in the East before Miami acquired Shaquille O’Neal.

But will O’Neal be able to hold off the Pistons’ avalanche of big men, led by Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, Antonio McDyess, Elden Campbell and Derrick Coleman?

The Pacers are secretly hoping the Pistons trade one of their big men for point guard help. But right now they have no answers for the Pistons’ front line.

“They don’t have a legitimate center,” Fox Sports Net analyst Marcus Johnson said. “Jermaine is more of a perimeter player. He would rather not go in there and mix it up. He is fighting that center tag, and you ask yourself, who else is there?”

But the Pacers believe their future is bright.

“I’m excited that we’re in a situation where we’ve been with these guys for about a year,” Carlisle said. “Hopefully, we’ll have a better feel for what our strengths are. We would like to get the ball moving more. We would like to have great balance.”

The Pacers attempted to get 6-foot-11 free agent Erick Dampier but were not willing to pay as much as Dallas.

Center Jeff Foster (6-11) and forward Ron Artest (6-7) have the hustle but lack the muscle to match the Pistons. It could force Artest to guard Ben Wallace instead of chasing Rip Hamilton or Tayshaun Prince.

The Pacers might be a tad closer to the Pistons in the backcourt, although Detroit held a clear advantage during the playoffs. Point guard Jamaal Tinsley is in the best shape of his career and wants to see how his hard work stacks up against Chauncey Billups.

The Pacers will start Reggie Miller, 39, out of respect for what he’s done for the organization. He is the team’s all-time leading scorer, but his legs are not what they used to be. Do you really think Prince makes that dramatic block against a younger and more mobile Miller in the Eastern Conference finals?

---
Close, but . . .

Since their last losing season in 1996-97, the Pacers have been to the NBA Finals once and the Eastern Conference finals three times, but have yet to win the title.

* 1997-98: 58-24, lost in seven games in Eastern finals to Chicago.

* 1998-99: 33-17 (strike-shortened season), lost in six games in Eastern finals to New York.

* 1999-00: 56-26, lost in NBA Finals in six games to Lakers.

* 2000-01: 41-41, did not make playoffs.

* 2001-02: 42-40, lost in first round in five games to New Jersey.

* 2002-03: 48-34, lost in first round in six games to Boston.

* 2003-04: 61-21, lost in six games in Eastern finals to Detroit.
---

Many criticized the Pacers for trading Al Harrington to Atlanta for 6-8 guard Stephen Jackson, who won a title with San Antonio in 2003. But did the Pacers have much of a choice? Tired of reserve time, Harrington demanded a trade to a team that could give him prime-time minutes.

Jackson is a long-range shooter who could give the Pistons’ backcourt players fits. He is likely to come off the bench until Miller retires. Jackson has looked strong and athletic in practices and is eager to play the Pistons.

The key to this team could be Artest, a talented scorer and defender who sometimes allows emotions to drag him and his team down. He played terribly against the Pistons in the playoffs as he went through one of his mood swings.

Artest also knows that Pacers president Larry Bird attempted to trade him in the off-season. Does Artest forgive and forget, or does he hold a grudge the remainder of the season? He already sent a dagger toward Auburn Hills by saying the Pistons were not that good last season.

Those words might come back to haunt him.

obnoxiousmodesty
10-28-2004, 10:22 PM
Blech. I disagree...

1. JO is not a "perimeter player." No, he is not exclusively a post player but being able to stretch the defense by knocking down 15-18 footers is an asset.

2. JO is a natural PF. He can play the center position in spurts, but like Tim Duncan, JO just fits best at the 4.

3. Yeah, the Pacers made the playoffs in '00-01. They lost in the first round to the Sixers, but still, someone forgot to do their basic background information check. Poor effort there.

ChicagoJ
10-28-2004, 10:23 PM
:confused: I vaguely remember losing to Philly in the 2001 playoffs.

Otherwise, a pretty good article. Like many of us have been saying since June, unless we convince JO he's a full-time center (I believe he should be) and we upgrade at PF, or get a true, wide bodied C, its going to be very difficult to beat Detroit in a playoff series.

The upgrade in the backcourt was okay, but we didn't take care of need #1.

With everybody healthy, we're a very good team. But we may only be the second best team in our division. :mad:

Anthem
10-28-2004, 11:11 PM
Wow, that blows the mind. Ron Artest lacks the muscle to match up with the Pistons? Are we talking about the same Ron Artest? He could break anybody on that team not named Ben Wallace. Speaking of which, what was that "Artest may have to guard Ben Wallace" thing about? First they say Ron has hustle but not muscle, then say he can't guard Prince and will have to guard Ben? News flash to Detroit: NOBODY HAS TO GUARD BEN WALLACE!

Also, did anybody else find it funny that the words "avalanche" was used to describe Elden Campbell and Derrick Coleman? That's not to say that the Piston's three-man rotation of Wallace, Wallace, and a healthy McDyess isn't powerful. But I'm not quaking of the last two.

Ultimate Frisbee
10-29-2004, 02:47 AM
Wow, that blows the mind. Ron Artest lacks the muscle to match up with the Pistons? Are we talking about the same Ron Artest? He could break anybody on that team not named Ben Wallace. Speaking of which, what was that "Artest may have to guard Ben Wallace" thing about? First they say Ron has hustle but not muscle, then say he can't guard Prince and will have to guard Ben? News flash to Detroit: NOBODY HAS TO GUARD BEN WALLACE!

Also, did anybody else find it funny that the words "avalanche" was used to describe Elden Campbell and Derrick Coleman? That's not to say that the Piston's three-man rotation of Wallace, Wallace, and a healthy McDyess isn't powerful. But I'm not quaking of the last two.
:laugh::laugh::laugh: I was going to say the same thing... Ron not tough enough??? The only way I could see us having significant problems dealing with their bigs is if they play Mcdyess and both Wallaces at the same time. or if we're in foul trouble.. or if someone is injured... haha... i guess there are quite a few situations in which we could get into trouble.

Kstat
10-29-2004, 03:23 AM
Wow, that blows the mind. Ron Artest lacks the muscle to match up with the Pistons? Are we talking about the same Ron Artest? He could break anybody on that team not named Ben Wallace. Speaking of which, what was that "Artest may have to guard Ben Wallace" thing about? First they say Ron has hustle but not muscle, then say he can't guard Prince and will have to guard Ben? News flash to Detroit: NOBODY HAS TO GUARD BEN WALLACE!

Also, did anybody else find it funny that the words "avalanche" was used to describe Elden Campbell and Derrick Coleman? That's not to say that the Piston's three-man rotation of Wallace, Wallace, and a healthy McDyess isn't powerful. But I'm not quaking of the last two.


I think that says more about the Pacers lack of big man depth, anthem. I'm pretty sure either Coleman or Campbell would break the Pacers' big man rotation. They're both healthy, and they're both decent big men. The Pacers really don't have much of anything off of their bench, other than Scott Pollard. Bender is 6'10" but plays about 5'9," and Harrison is a wild card at best. In terms of true big men, Indy is sorely lacking, after JO. I think Carlisle would jump at the chance to aquire a player like Coleman.

Oh, and the point about Artest guarding Ben: noboy has to guard Ben. Somebody DOES have to box him out, which is why foster got benched. He was getting thrown around in the paint like he wasn't even there.

And yes, I think Artest needs to stay as far away from Prince as possible. He really got into Ron's head last summer. That got ron into a pissing contest, and he basically said, "screw the team, I'm going 1-on-1." Not a good idea.....

Fool
10-29-2004, 08:50 AM
Aside from one mistaken 1st round exist its a pretty accurate article and considering its not the team he covers its not a HUGE mistake (how many times have I come here to find you guys red inking one of your own beat writers facts about the Pacers). With that said, at least it wasn't McCosky writing the article (Piston beat writer) he wouldn't have gotten the team names right.

This is such a vanilla take, there is not much to argue about. It basically said Detroit is bigger and the Pacers have ugraded their backcourt. The rational ones here have been saying that all off-season.

Unclebuck
10-29-2004, 08:56 AM
Two points

1) This idea that Foster could not block out Ben Wallace is baffling me. That is not why he was taken out of the starting lineup first of all that had nothing to do with it. But more importantly, whenever Jeff was on the floor he defended Sheed, so his assignment was not to be blockng out Ben anyway. That was J.O's responsibility, and we all know that J.O does not block out anyone.

2) Let me see if I understand all this. Pistons frontcourt dominated the pacers frontcourt and the Pistons backcourt dominated the Pacers backcourt. OK, maybe I was watching the wrong series. Was the series a 4 games sweep. The series I watched was pretty even. I'll be the first to say the Pistons were the better team overall. But lets look all each game.

Game #1. Could have gone either way, Reggie hits a shot to seal the win.

Game #2. Could have gone either way, Saving blocked shot saved the game

Game #3. I would admit the Pistons controlled most of the way, Pacers got back into it somewhat late

Game #4. Was the most lopsided game, Pacers controlled the whole way.

Game #5. Pistons controlled the second half

Game #6. Pacers lead until about the 5 minute mark of the 4th quarter. Game could have gone either way.

Maybe, some are confusing the Pacers series with the lakers series.

fwpacerfan
10-29-2004, 09:56 AM
The one good thing about all of the injuries the Pacers are facing right now is that it will give quality playing time to guys who need it. The problem last year was that the Pacers were so banged up against Detroit and there wasn't enough experience on the bench to cover. I think Pollard starting the season getting time to work with the 1st unit will prove invaluable in the playoffs.

Good points UB, the way many talk it seems like the Pacers were swept by the Pistons but in reality the Pacers gave the Pistons a much tougher time than the Lakers did.

Anthem
10-29-2004, 03:21 PM
Agree with UB... Foster didn't get thrown around. He did get sealed off the rebound a lot, but part of that has to do with JO's pathological inability to go hard against the guys from Portland.

Fool
10-29-2004, 03:36 PM
I think the point is NOT that the Piston front court dominated the Pacers last year but that it will this year thanks to the Pistons getting Dyess and the Pacers losing Al. The article also said that the noticable difference in the backcourts last year has been closed with your pick-up of Jax. Where is the news break in that?

I don't see where is says that the Pacer front line last year was woefully inadequate when compared to the Pistons front line last year.

Anthem
10-29-2004, 04:05 PM
The article doesn't say it... Kstat does. But we all know he's wrong. :devil:

Kegboy
10-29-2004, 11:59 PM
I don't understand the logic in saying that losing Al will hurt us against Detroit. Al gave us zero, zip, nada, NOTHING in the ECF. Hell, John Edwards probably would have done better. ;)
---
Asked afterward if O'Neal's absence contributed to Charlotte's win, Knight bristled.

"What about Primoz? They didn't have Shaq, but we didn't have Primoz," he said.

Fool
10-30-2004, 12:28 AM
Well, I don't see that in Kstats's post either but whatever,

As for Coleman (which is in Kstats post) Carlisle can have him. He is a turnover machine this playoff and his incredibly slow and out of shape play completely destroys any flow the offense has with him in.

Kstat
10-30-2004, 12:44 AM
Well, I don't see that in Kstats's post either but whatever,

As for Coleman (which is in Kstats post) Carlisle can have him. He is a turnover machine this playoff and his incredibly slow and out of shape play completely destroys any flow the offense has with him in.

I think he gets a bad rap simply because he's in Darko's way......

Coleman played like crap tonight, but I think he's been ok in camp.

Kstat
10-30-2004, 12:46 AM
I think the point is NOT that the Piston front court dominated the Pacers last year but that it will this year thanks to the Pistons getting Dyess and the Pacers losing Al. The article also said that the noticable difference in the backcourts last year has been closed with your pick-up of Jax. Where is the news break in that?

I don't see where is says that the Pacer front line last year was woefully inadequate when compared to the Pistons front line last year.


Exactly.

Anthem
10-30-2004, 01:10 AM
We mocked the article because it said our all-hustle, no-muscle DPOY small forward might have to play out of position to guard the scoring threat that is Big Ben.

Fool
10-30-2004, 01:15 AM
I think he gets a bad rap simply because he's in Darko's way......

Coleman played like crap tonight, but I think he's been ok in camp.

That might be true in a general sense and I would say tonight was definately Coleman's worst performance. However, he's been more than noticably slow, out of sink with whoever he plays with (aside from Campbell in game 1) and while I haven't hcecked the stats he always seems to be scrambling to just keep the ball. I'm actually worried that Coleman will take away from Campbell's minutes. Not that those are crucial or anything but Campbell is far less of a liability then Coleman so far and I would hate if LB's affection for DC gets Campbell the permanent seat.

Fool
10-30-2004, 01:26 AM
We mocked the article because it said our all-hustle, no-muscle DPOY small forward might have to play out of position to guard the scoring threat that is Big Ben.

It says Foster and Artest have the hustle but not the muscle to match-up with the depth of the Piston big men (which is true). Thats extremely different from calling Artest all hustle no muscle. It then goes on to say that the lack of muscle in the Pacer frontcourt makes having Artest (probably the strongest guy on the team) gaurding Ben (definately the strongest on the Pistons) a real option (one would assume to compensate for the rebounding difference more then the points). That basically praises Artest's strength. Whatever UB says, Foster was thrown around in the ECF (what did he get, like 3 boards a game?)

Care to take a third try Anthem?

JOneal7
10-30-2004, 01:26 AM
hahahahha! DICE? The same dice who IS NEVER HEALTHY? Yeah I'm really afraid of dice. And i bet you anything they cut coleman. Detroit should not be the favor in the east.

Fool
10-30-2004, 01:42 AM
Health?

I'll refer you to this thread

http://www.pacersdigest.com/cgi-bin/bbBoard.cgi?a=viewthread;fid=1;gtid=100994


[it appears I don't know how to post a link here

Kstat
10-30-2004, 02:11 AM
Health?

I'll refer you to this thread

http://www.pacersdigest.com/cgi-bin/bbBoard.cgi?a=viewthread;fid=1;gtid=100994


[it appears I don't know how to post a link here




McDyess is in perfect health, actually......he's played all 8 preseason games and looks like he's in great shape.

The Pacers, on the other hand, will have trouble stopping Mark Blount in the post, if JO goes in IR.....

Just take what Joneal7 says with a grain of salt, Fool.....he's just a kid, don't take him so seriously.

Peck
10-30-2004, 03:08 AM
Two points

1) This idea that Foster could not block out Ben Wallace is baffling me. That is not why he was taken out of the starting lineup first of all that had nothing to do with it. But more importantly, whenever Jeff was on the floor he defended Sheed, so his assignment was not to be blockng out Ben anyway. That was J.O's responsibility, and we all know that J.O does not block out anyone.

2) Let me see if I understand all this. Pistons frontcourt dominated the pacers frontcourt and the Pistons backcourt dominated the Pacers backcourt. OK, maybe I was watching the wrong series. Was the series a 4 games sweep. The series I watched was pretty even. I'll be the first to say the Pistons were the better team overall. But lets look all each game.

Game #1. Could have gone either way, Reggie hits a shot to seal the win.

Game #2. Could have gone either way, Saving blocked shot saved the game

Game #3. I would admit the Pistons controlled most of the way, Pacers got back into it somewhat late

Game #4. Was the most lopsided game, Pacers controlled the whole way.

Game #5. Pistons controlled the second half

Game #6. Pacers lead until about the 5 minute mark of the 4th quarter. Game could have gone either way.

Maybe, some are confusing the Pacers series with the lakers series.




Jeff wasn't just taken out of the starting lineup. He was benched and by benched I mean he barley played again the rest of the series.

It didn't matter which Wallace he was going against, he was doing nothing. His lack of offense was killing us & the fact that he is just not a physically dominating player on the boards did not help. Jeff gets boards but not in the thick of battle type that you have to get vs. the Pistons.

On your other point. It was a close series. Take away J.O. & Tins. injury's & we might have been able to take them.

But that was then & this is now. They have the taste of success & even with that success they upgraded thier frontcourt.

While adding Jackson is a good thing I question if we have the depth or strength in the middle to compete with Detroit. God help us when we face Shaq.

We desperately need a muscle man on our team to go against these big guys on the Pistons.

Unclebuck
10-30-2004, 11:16 AM
Peck, I don't believe the way to compete with the Pistons is to have muscle guys. Not muscle guys who are not extremely quick and athletic.

I'll say this again, Foster was taken out of the lineup not because of anything he did or didn't do. Rather he was taken out because of what the other 4 guys on the court did not do. No one could score, so the coaching staff, and rightfully so, had to try to get some scoring in the lineup. If Tinsley, Reggie, and Artest could have scored a few points then Foster could have stayed in the lineup, and if he did the Pacers defense and rebounding would have been much better than it was in games 4, 5, 6.

Kegboy, I disagree with you about Al's performance in the Pistons series. I thought he was effective, and I do think not having Al against the Pistons will hurt the Pacers. He is the type of player you need against the pistons.

One other thing. Coleman and Campbell don't worry me at all. Too old and too injured. If the Pistons beat the pacers again it will have nothing to do woth those two guys.

Anthem
10-30-2004, 11:58 AM
We mocked the article because it said our all-hustle, no-muscle DPOY small forward might have to play out of position to guard the scoring threat that is Big Ben.

It says Foster and Artest have the hustle but not the muscle to match-up with the depth of the Piston big men (which is true).... Whatever UB says, Foster was thrown around in the ECF (what did he get, like 3 boards a game?)

Care to take a third try Anthem?

No, it's NOT true. It doesn't make any sense. You say Artest doesn't have the muscle to match up with any if the Pistons frontline, but then say Artest will have to guard Ben because he's best able to match up? It doesn't compute, man. It's logically inconsistent. One of these things is not like the other. Both statements can't be true. I don't know how else to say it. Besides, Jermaine guarded Ben last year and I don't recall any problems with that.

Foster didn't get thrown around in the ECF, he got sealed off. If he was on Sheed, Sheed would seal Jeff and let Ben get the rebound. If he was on Ben, Ben would seal Jeff and let Sheed get the rebound. It really impressed me, actually, because it's savvy and veteran and team-first basketball. It was also very intentional... obviously something Larry talked about going into the series. I really like the way Larry Brown coaches. Fpr the most part, Foster's matchup was Sheed, and he did a great job. I don't see that changing.

If that's a third try, fine. But I've been saying the exact same thing over and over.

SoupIsGood
10-30-2004, 01:06 PM
I'm sorry but I don't even get why we are talking about Artest guarding Ben. It's not going to happen. Artest will guard a perimeter player, and do a damn fine job. Foster and JO can and will match-up with Ben and Sheed.

Peck
10-30-2004, 07:24 PM
Peck, I don't believe the way to compete with the Pistons is to have muscle guys. Not muscle guys who are not extremely quick and athletic.

I'll say this again, Foster was taken out of the lineup not because of anything he did or didn't do. Rather he was taken out because of what the other 4 guys on the court did not do. No one could score, so the coaching staff, and rightfully so, had to try to get some scoring in the lineup. If Tinsley, Reggie, and Artest could have scored a few points then Foster could have stayed in the lineup, and if he did the Pacers defense and rebounding would have been much better than it was in games 4, 5, 6.

Kegboy, I disagree with you about Al's performance in the Pistons series. I thought he was effective, and I do think not having Al against the Pistons will hurt the Pacers. He is the type of player you need against the pistons.

One other thing. Coleman and Campbell don't worry me at all. Too old and too injured. If the Pistons beat the pacers again it will have nothing to do woth those two guys.



Your own words are evidence to the contrary of what you are saying. You said "Foster was taken out of the lineup not because of anything he did or didn't do".

All Jeff would have had to do then was score something/anything. So in essence, it was something he didn't do.

Also, & I know you aren't going to like or agree with this, there is nobody in the Pistons frontcourt that he can really play well against. They are all almost as quick as Jeff & they are all stronger than him.

Muscle men aren't going to beat the Pistons? While that may be true a team of jump shooters who will throw up a three at the drop of a hat isn't going to get the job done either.

Do you honestly believe that adding S. Jackson is enough to beat the Pistons?

What makes Foster any more valuable vs. the Pistons now than what he was last season? In other words when it comes time to play them again Austin Croshere will be the main powerforwar/center with J.O.

Do you think that is a good idea? I like Austin a heck of a lot more than you do & even I cringe at the thought of this.

Not getting a big man this off-season was just dumb.

Our season record may be good, although I suspect it won't be as good as last years, but it will all be for naught if we once again go down in flames because of our lack of a true big man.

Anthem
10-30-2004, 08:10 PM
but it will all be for naught if we once again go down in flames because of our lack of a true big man.

What's Jermaine O'Neal?

Destined4Greatness
10-30-2004, 09:43 PM
Smells like fear to me. And they act like JO is going to have to go up against the entire Pistons roster himself. Jeez this is just to bias to read.

Fool
10-31-2004, 01:08 PM
We mocked the article because it said our all-hustle, no-muscle DPOY small forward might have to play out of position to guard the scoring threat that is Big Ben.

It says Foster and Artest have the hustle but not the muscle to match-up with the depth of the Piston big men (which is true).... Whatever UB says, Foster was thrown around in the ECF (what did he get, like 3 boards a game?)

Care to take a third try Anthem?

No, it's NOT true. It doesn't make any sense. You say Artest doesn't have the muscle to match up with any if the Pistons frontline, but then say Artest will have to guard Ben because he's best able to match up? It doesn't compute, man. It's logically inconsistent. One of these things is not like the other. Both statements can't be true. I don't know how else to say it. Besides, Jermaine guarded Ben last year and I don't recall any problems with that.

Foster didn't get thrown around in the ECF, he got sealed off. If he was on Sheed, Sheed would seal Jeff and let Ben get the rebound. If he was on Ben, Ben would seal Jeff and let Sheed get the rebound. It really impressed me, actually, because it's savvy and veteran and team-first basketball. It was also very intentional... obviously something Larry talked about going into the series. I really like the way Larry Brown coaches. Fpr the most part, Foster's matchup was Sheed, and he did a great job. I don't see that changing.

If that's a third try, fine. But I've been saying the exact same thing over and over.

You are grossly missunderstanding my post which is completely consistent.

1) I didn't say Artest doesn't have the muscle to go up with "any [o]f the Pistons frontline" (quote from your post) and neither did the article. I (and it) said that Artest and Foster don't have the muscle "to match-up with the depth of the Piston big men" (thats an exact quote from my post).

Now, it seems that you are trying to understand that statement as something like, "Artest isn't as strong as any one of the Pistons' big men." Thats not what it means at all. It means that no matter how strong Artest is, he isn't strong enough to match-up with all the strength of the multiple big men the Pistons have this year. Thats more than consistent with saying Artest is the strongest Pacer and could be put on the blocks to help your team on the boards with Ben Wallace. Its also what I said the entire way.

The fact is the Pacers have less ability in their 4 and 5 slots then last year and the Pistons have more than last year. But as I've said at least 3 times in this thread, that isn't news.

As to your point about JO on Ben. Ben averaged 15 rebounds a game (his highest in any round of the playoffs) and his points were only moderately lower (7.8 instead of 9.5). I guess that doesn't have to be seen as a problem but its certainly not good turn-out from the Pacers point of view.

Foster was more than just "sealed off" he was shut out of everything, rebounds, points, even the game after a while, as Carlisle looked for more production out of your C spot. If you don't want to call that "thrown around", thats fine. Call it whatever you want. Just don't expect better with the Pistons' frontline this year.

I like Indiana. I think they are at the very least the 2nd best team in the East (which many Indy fans here aren't even sure of). But only a grossly incorrect reading of the argument I am makeing allows for calling my post inconsistent.

As to you making the same argument in all three of your attempts ... if you say so.