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Trader Joe
11-07-2011, 02:02 PM
They should not be allowed to represent the Big Ten in the first conference championship game at the very least, and IMO that should just be the first of the many lashings this athletic department deserves to have. They were still paying for trips to bowl games for this jackass as recently as 2007 and he was taking victims to these events.

Sad that Joe Pa's career will end in such shame, but perhaps not if he was involved in the cover up.

Pretty disgusted right now at the whole university to be honest.

Stryder
11-07-2011, 02:04 PM
Yeah, it's downright uncalled for and sickening.

Trader Joe
11-07-2011, 02:07 PM
Honestly, it makes the stuff that went on at Miami look like littering, at least then we were dealing with people over the age of 18.

We let them into our conference in 1993 and now this started taking place just two years later? Assuming of course that he just suddenly became a child molestor over night. If they are allowed to be in the inaugural conference championship, I will be deeply saddened.

Since86
11-07-2011, 02:35 PM
All of them need punished, and that includes the GA coach who found them. Merely reporting the situation to Joe Pa wasn't enough, clearly, and it shouldn't have been his only course of action.

How do you not phsyically remove the kid and take him straight to the hospital? A 10 year olds *** cannot take a fully grown mans ****, without inflicting serious phsyical damage to the kid. I hate to be so direct, but there's really no way of dancing around the issue.

The whole situation sickens me. Not a single person handled it the way they should have.

Trader Joe
11-07-2011, 02:37 PM
Death penalty for the program?

Slick Pinkham
11-07-2011, 02:41 PM
It is very odd the way this was handled.

If I were the eyewitness to THAT, I know that there are other things I do besides talking to people in-house. I make sure the kid is safe, and then I am in a police station rather than in a coach's office. That is the kind of crime for which keeping things in-house simply doesn't apply.

Trader Joe
11-07-2011, 02:41 PM
I like the Penn State fans that say this shouldn't become an NCAA issue...yeah hilarious.

Slick Pinkham
11-07-2011, 03:59 PM
The scumbag and anyone helping him deserve to rot in jail here on Earth and pay a higher price later on, if you believe in that sort of thing.

I'm not a Penn State person, and obviously this case is terrible, and I am not inclined to defend them in any way. However... we have to find out if there was indeed an organized cover-up going on. It sounds like the witness told Paterno a watered-down version of the account he gave to the grand jury years later.

With that in mind, are we completely sure that this really is an NCAA issue? The guy was not an employee of the University and as far as we know, none of the victims were involved with the University either. It would seem that the NCAA's involvement only makes sense if it is provable that people in the University knowingly covered up a crime to avoid embarassing the University. The legal system will sort that out, in time. Until then I am not sure what the NCAA can or should do in this case.

Trader Joe
11-07-2011, 04:24 PM
It took place on University grounds, heck in Penn State locker rooms. We have allegations that some of these boys were taken to Penn State bowl games and other events using school money. How does this not apply to the NCAA?

cdash
11-07-2011, 04:33 PM
Gotta be honest: When I first saw the kiddie/rape thing I thought it would be an SEC school. Sounds like a real Kentucky thing to do.

On a more serious note, there's really nothing I can say that hasn't already been said. Truly horrific that something like this can happen. Penn State needs to clean house. If they were looking for an excuse to push JoePa out the door, this is certainly it.

Heisenberg
11-07-2011, 10:13 PM
I couldn't care less what the NCAA does to their program, everyone's fired as they should be who's left to punish? I'd much prefer actual justice and long jail sentences for these sacks of garbage.

Trader Joe
11-07-2011, 10:29 PM
Well, yeah I hope they all get tossed in jail for a long, long time, but I think the NCAA has to look at what happened here, especially if the AD was not contacting authorities and if it took place on campus grounds.

Heisenberg
11-08-2011, 01:43 AM
Just want to make clear that not in any way did I mean you were meaning for NCAA sanctions or whatever to take precedence over actual legal rulings.

I fully support letting the case play out, but I don't see any way anyone remotely tied to this remains employed by the school. This is a state school supported by state funding that represents all of rural Pennsylvania. This happened at Purdue you bet your *** I'd cut off all my funding (however small) to the JPC if everyone weren't gone. If they all get canned, then really there's no one to punish but the players that had no idea.

Trader Joe
11-08-2011, 02:18 AM
Players get sanctioned all the time for the actions of past coaches for stuff a lot less trivial than this.

Heisenberg
11-08-2011, 05:53 AM
And in every case I can think of it's retarded. Based on the current standings Penn State has a legitimate shot of representing the B10 in whatever BCS bowl the conference goes to, maybe even a pretty solid shot. I'd completely support a ban on this current PSU squad from the B10 title game and any bowl game they'd be invited to. It'd obviously be an awful few media days of this whole thing getting rehashed. That'd be a simple business decision for the conference and all the schools as a whole.

HOWEVA, should Delaney put on his big boy pants and ban PSU from the postseason, which I honestly don't even think he could do, and then we go through an offseason and PSU cleans house, which they clearly would/should with any sort of guilty verdict/plea deal, I honestly see no reason to sanction them. Penn State's a university and fanbase that prides themselves, sometimes too much so, on "doing it the right way," look up any kind of NCAA sanctions or whatever. Won't find one.

That's why this is so stunning to me. I'm willing to give the shot callers, meaning the presidents not affiliated with athletics and ESPECIALLY the boosters, the benefit of the doubt right now that if come September 2012 it's not a gutted athletic department then they'll be dead in the water, Legend of JoePa be dammed. Penn State's by far the cleanest BCS program you'll find in the last...well, my lifetime, I'm 27. I honestly have faith in them doing what needs to be done.

Foul on Smits
11-08-2011, 07:00 AM
I like the Penn State fans that say this shouldn't become an NCAA issue...yeah hilarious.

If this doesn't fall under " Lack of institutional control " I don't know what does. Joe Pa needs to step down and he shouldn't be on those inspirational big 10 commercials either. Not going to the police is an absolute joke. He should have been outraged. Everyone should have been outraged.

But I don't think the team should be punished and not allowed to play in the title game. If they even get there btw. They have a brutal schedule.

Everyone involved needs to step down now. Including Paterno.

Foul on Smits
11-08-2011, 07:50 AM
This sick **** has six adopted children.

Also he has autobiography called " Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story ". You can't even make this **** up.

This is just disgusting. PSU fans worrying about Paternos legacy should be ashamed.

Foul on Smits
11-08-2011, 07:58 AM
I'll be stunned if Paterno doesn't retire before saturdays game.

travmil
11-08-2011, 09:00 AM
Yeah, this is most definitely an NCAA issue. The man (and I use that term loosely) used his access to the University facilities and athletic department money to acquire, hide, and entertain his victims. Then, when informed of a direct eye witness account of the crimes, athletic department personnel broke the law by not immediately reporting it to police. This includes the graduate assistant and Paterno who should have reported to police in addition to their athletic department. After he survived this scare of being caught with his penis inside a child, I'm sure it only emboldened this cretin to cull even more victims. Everyone involved in this should be absolutley ashamed of themselves. Penn State fans should be ashamed of thier university. Big Ten fans should be outraged. There's nothing going on in college sports with athletes, boosters, and money right now worse than this. NOTHING. If that's not an NCAA issue I don't know what is.

Trader Joe
11-08-2011, 09:49 AM
And in every case I can think of it's retarded. Based on the current standings Penn State has a legitimate shot of representing the B10 in whatever BCS bowl the conference goes to, maybe even a pretty solid shot. I'd completely support a ban on this current PSU squad from the B10 title game and any bowl game they'd be invited to. It'd obviously be an awful few media days of this whole thing getting rehashed. That'd be a simple business decision for the conference and all the schools as a whole.

HOWEVA, should Delaney put on his big boy pants and ban PSU from the postseason, which I honestly don't even think he could do, and then we go through an offseason and PSU cleans house, which they clearly would/should with any sort of guilty verdict/plea deal, I honestly see no reason to sanction them. Penn State's a university and fanbase that prides themselves, sometimes too much so, on "doing it the right way," look up any kind of NCAA sanctions or whatever. Won't find one.

That's why this is so stunning to me. I'm willing to give the shot callers, meaning the presidents not affiliated with athletics and ESPECIALLY the boosters, the benefit of the doubt right now that if come September 2012 it's not a gutted athletic department then they'll be dead in the water, Legend of JoePa be dammed. Penn State's by far the cleanest BCS program you'll find in the last...well, my lifetime, I'm 27. I honestly have faith in them doing what needs to be done.

I wanted to bold that last part, because right now it seems that the perception may not have matched up with the reality.

Anyway, I think at the very least you need to remove them from the B1G Championship Game, just declare them ineligible now pending further investigations. This prevents them from getting a BCS bid and prevents a whole lot of awkward questions for the players and everyone else.

Trader Joe
11-08-2011, 09:50 AM
If this doesn't fall under " Lack of institutional control " I don't know what does. Joe Pa needs to step down and he shouldn't be on those inspirational big 10 commercials either. Not going to the police is an absolute joke. He should have been outraged. Everyone should have been outraged.

But I don't think the team should be punished and not allowed to play in the title game. If they even get there btw. They have a brutal schedule.

Everyone involved needs to step down now. Including Paterno.

Yep, to me that's the rule that at the very least has to be involved here. If an athletic department can get busted for failing to report something like a free t-shirt given to a recruit, then they should definitely be eligible to see some sanctions for not reporting this.

Foul on Smits
11-08-2011, 10:08 AM
How can a man walk in on a child being raped and not do anything about it? How can you turn your back and walk away? I'm about to get sick.

Trader Joe
11-08-2011, 10:17 AM
Yeah, this is most definitely an NCAA issue. The man (and I use that term loosely) used his access to the University facilities and athletic department money to acquire, hide, and entertain his victims. Then, when informed of a direct eye witness account of the crimes, athletic department personnel broke the law by not immediately reporting it to police. This includes the graduate assistant and Paterno who should have reported to police in addition to their athletic department. After he survived this scare of being caught with his penis inside a child, I'm sure it only emboldened this cretin to cull even more victims. Everyone involved in this should be absolutley ashamed of themselves. Penn State fans should be ashamed of thier university. Big Ten fans should be outraged. There's nothing going on in college sports with athletes, boosters, and money right now worse than this. NOTHING. If that's not an NCAA issue I don't know what is.

Yep, if this doesn't become an NCAA issue I'll be deeply saddened. The graduate assistant in particular should be ashamed. But come on it took place ON PENN STATE property, it involved an assistant coach, the head coach, the athletic director, I mean Jesus. How many boxes does it have to check for the NCAA to get involved? But good Lord, if this was one too many phone calls or an athlete signing his name on a jersey so he could get a free dinner the NCAA blood hounds would be all over it.

Since86
11-08-2011, 10:19 AM
If Joe Pa/Penn St are willing to cover up the rape of a minor, I'm pretty sure they'd have no problem covering up NCAA violations. Ohio St. used to hang their hat on the integrity of their coach too, and look what happened.

Benefit of the doubt went out the window the exact time this story dropped.

Slick Pinkham
11-08-2011, 10:25 AM
My understanding was that at least one of the first incidents did go to the police and to the district attorney who decided, somehow, to not press charges even when confronted with the evidence provided by the parent of a victim, including a legally taped phone conversation with the scumbag, implicating himself. The district attorney has apparently been missing and presumed dead for 6 years, in another very odd twist.

I don't know how many incidents there were or when it first got reported. Obviously if it was delayed at all, some large degree of responsibility is on anyone who helped to delay it.

I still can't get over the reaction of the adult eyewitness. To just leave the building without STOPPING IT, and then to not go to the police, is irresponsibility-squared.

Lots of blame to go around here. Wonder what Joe P will do and say today.

Trader Joe
11-08-2011, 10:31 AM
My understanding was that at least one of the first incidents did go to the police and to the district attorney who decided, somehow, to not press charges even when confronted with the evidence provided by the parent of a victim, including a legally taped phone conversation with the scumbag, implicating himself. The district attorney has apparently been missing and presumed dead for 6 years, in another very odd twist.

I don't know how many incidents there were or when it first got reported. Obviously if it was delayed at all, some large degree of responsibility is on anyone who helped to delay it.

I still can't get over the reaction of the adult eyewitness. To just leave the building without STOPPING IT, and then to not go to the police, is irresponsibility-squared.

Lots of blame to go around here. Wonder what Joe P will do and say today.

I've been trying to wrap my mind around it? How do you walk away? How do you turn your back on that kid? I just don't know...how do you not stop it? It just seems like it would be the natural reaction for me to say something, to yell, to shout, to try and stop it, but to just walk away? Man...

Trader Joe
11-08-2011, 10:43 AM
Some crazy stuff on twitter about this right now, including something that as recently as a couple weeks ago Sandusky was apparently at Penn State's practice with an unnamed child? And was still allowed to use the workout facilities on his own at Penn State? Right now it's just on twitter, but I'm trying to find the article that was referenced.

Trader Joe
11-08-2011, 10:45 AM
My understanding was that at least one of the first incidents did go to the police and to the district attorney who decided, somehow, to not press charges even when confronted with the evidence provided by the parent of a victim, including a legally taped phone conversation with the scumbag, implicating himself. The district attorney has apparently been missing and presumed dead for 6 years, in another very odd twist.

I don't know how many incidents there were or when it first got reported. Obviously if it was delayed at all, some large degree of responsibility is on anyone who helped to delay it.

I still can't get over the reaction of the adult eyewitness. To just leave the building without STOPPING IT, and then to not go to the police, is irresponsibility-squared.

Lots of blame to go around here. Wonder what Joe P will do and say today.

Apparently, the prosecutor that disappeared was never found, but his car, his laptop, and his hard drive were found in a nearby river. The last search on his home computer was how to destroy a hard drive.

travmil
11-08-2011, 10:51 AM
You know what's even worse about this? Unless they get a victim or witness willing to go to court, he's gonna walk away from it all. I can tell you from experience that they will have trouble getting someone to go in there and tell what happened. The graduate assistant mentioned several times will likely plead the 5th if forced to testify since he would face charges for admitting what he saw on the stand and not reporting it to police.

Foul on Smits
11-08-2011, 11:00 AM
This Paterno press conference at noon will get ugly fast.

Trader Joe
11-08-2011, 11:14 AM
Peegs predicts Paterno will resign soon.

Slick Pinkham
11-08-2011, 12:16 PM
A great many people have seemingly assumed that the witness told Paterno something specific enough for him sit up and say "I need to go to the police with this information".

Considering all of the things the witness himself did not do- like stop the act, or go to the police himself- I have to wonder what his meeting with Paterno was really like. Did he just go in there and say "Coach, how well do you know Mr. Sandusky? He seems creepy to me". If the witness didn't want to get involved enough to stop the guy, maybe he didn't even want to be the one to blow the whistle on the guy, until he had to do so under oath.

Just thinking out loud here, and maybe JoePa and others did indeed cover up actual rape, but an awful lot of factors seem to make no sense at all and some issues like who knew exactly what, and when, need to be clarified.

Trader Joe
11-08-2011, 12:24 PM
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7207465/penn-state-nittany-lions-sex-abuse-scandal-jerry-sandusky-was-campus-last-week-reports-say

Excerpt

Former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky had access to the team's weight room as recently as last week, a person familiar with the situation said just hours before Joe Paterno was to give his first news conference since his former protege was charged with child sex abuse.

Slick Pinkham
11-08-2011, 12:52 PM
PSU just cancelled Paterno's weekly press conference scheduled for today, per ESPN (TV), according to what I read on another board.

Slick Pinkham
11-08-2011, 12:54 PM
confirmed now at espn.com, cancelled by the school president, not by Paterno, according to his son.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7207730/penn-state-nittany-lions-call-joe-paterno-news-conference

Hicks
11-08-2011, 12:59 PM
How can a man walk in on a child being raped and not do anything about it? How can you turn your back and walk away? I'm about to get sick.

That's what I was trying to figure out. If I witnessed that, the LEAST that's going to happen is I'm grabbing this guy and throwing him against the nearest wall.

Hicks
11-08-2011, 01:00 PM
My understanding was that at least one of the first incidents did go to the police and to the district attorney who decided, somehow, to not press charges even when confronted with the evidence provided by the parent of a victim, including a legally taped phone conversation with the scumbag, implicating himself. The district attorney has apparently been missing and presumed dead for 6 years, in another very odd twist.

Woah!

travmil
11-08-2011, 01:05 PM
Did he just go in there and say "Coach, how well do you know Mr. Sandusky? He seems creepy to me". If the witness didn't want to get involved enough to stop the guy, maybe he didn't even want to be the one to blow the whistle on the guy, until he had to do so under oath.

Just thinking out loud here, and maybe JoePa and others did indeed cover up actual rape, but an awful lot of factors seem to make no sense at all and some issues like who knew exactly what, and when, need to be clarified.

Well, I think he must have told Paterno something with a bit more substance than that to warrant Paterno reporting it to the AD. You're right that none of us know what it is, but Paterno didn't go to the AD to report that his graduate assistant thought Sandusky was creepy.

judicata
11-08-2011, 01:25 PM
Paterno should resign and everyone else on the staff should be canned. The school should vacate 2 wins, especially since the timing of this is very suspicious with #409 coming about a week ago.

I don't think the NCAA touches this one. It appears to me that they generally only care about violations of their own rules and things that give schools an unfair advantage (freebies, grades, recruiting violations).

Foul on Smits
11-08-2011, 01:26 PM
New york post reporting that PSU is planning Paternos exit.

The last 15 minutes with Matt Millen on espn have been gripping.

Sandman21
11-08-2011, 01:34 PM
Hes done. Plain and simple.

And no, I don't think the NCAA gets involved at this time. This is a law enforcement matter.

travmil
11-08-2011, 01:39 PM
Here's an article I found with a detailed timeline just to clear up what was said by whom to whom and when. I've copied the timeline only but there is an article at the link as well.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/244874/20111107/sandusky-penn-state-scandal-timeline-abuse-cover.htm

By Melanie Jones | November 7, 2011 5:12 PM EST



Here, a timeline of the course of the explosive sex scandal and its apparent cover-up by members of the Penn State faculty.

1977 -- Jerry Sandusky founds The Second Mile, a state-wide non-profit foundation established to help at-risk youth. The organization's web site describes it as a place to "promote self-confidence as well as physical, academic, and personal success."

1994-1997 -- Sandusky allegedly uses The Second Mile grounds to engage in "inappropriate conduct" with three different boys he met separately through the program. One boy was 7 or 8, the second was 10, and the third was between 12 and 13. According to the grand jury report, the three boys, now grown, say Sandusky's behavior ranged from touching to overt sexual come-ons and sexual assault. Several incidents reportedly took place during home games for Penn State football, when the team, staff and the boys were all staying at a nearby hotel.

1998 -- First police involvement. Penn State police and the Penn. Department of Public Warfare are contacted by the mother of an 11-year-old boy, who says Sandusky showered with her son and may have had inappropriate contact with him.

June 1, 1998 -- In an interview with investigators, Sandusky admits showering naked with the pre-teen. He admits that it was wrong, and promises not to do it again. No charges are filed, and the university police chief instructs that the case be closed.

1999 -- Sandusky retires from Penn State after coaching for 32 years. he remains a volunteer, and retains full access to the campus, football facilities, and The Second Mile camp grounds.

2000 -- Sandusky showers with a young boy and tries to touch his genitals during overnight stays at the coach's house, according to the now 24-year-old man's testimony to the grand jury.

2000 -- First eyewitness report. Tim Calhoun, a janitor at the Lasch Football Building on Penn State's campus, tells another janitor and his supervisor that he saw Sandusky performing oral sex on a young boy. The incident goes unreported.

2000 -- Second eyewitness report. Another janitor sees Sandusky and a boy leave the shower room together and walk out of the building hand in hand, according to the grand jury report. No one reports the incident to university officials or law enforcement.

March 2, 2002 -- A graduate assistant allegedly tells Coach Joe Paterno that he saw Sandusky in the locker room shower on Mar. 1 with a young boy. The retired defense coordinator was engaging in anal sex with the boy, believed to be no more than 10 years old.

March 3, 2002 -- Paterno reports the incident to Athletic Director Tim Curley. Paterno tells Curley the grad student had seen Sandusky "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy." The graduate assistant is called to a meeting with Curley and Schultz.

March 3, 2002 -- The assistant, according to the grand jury report, sticks by his story, saying he saw Sandusky having anal sex with the young boy. Schultz, 62, and Curley, 57, told the grand jury they could not remember the details of the meeting. Schultz said Sandusky "might have inappropriately grabbed the young boy's genitals during wrestling," and Curley said he was under the impression, like Schultz, that the affair involved little more than "horsing around."

March, 2002 -- Sandusky's locker room keys are confiscated, and he is told not to bring his Second Mile participants to campus. The incident is not reported to police, and no official investigation is launched.

March, 2002 -- The Second Mile learns of the shower incident through Penn State. Curley tells them that "the information had been internally reviewed, and that there was no finding of wrongdoing."

2005 or 2006 -- Sandusky allegedly befriends and molests another Second-Mile participant. These allegation will form the foundation of the multi-year grand jury investigation about to launch.

2006 or 2007 --Fourth known eyewitness report. A wrestling coach at a high school where Sandusky volunteers surprises the former coach and a young boy. The two are allegedly "lying on their sides, in physical contact, face to face on a mat." Sandusky jumps to feet, telling the coach the two were practicing wrestling moves, which seemed believable. Later, according to the wrestling coach's testimony, Sandusky begins to spend more time with the boy, taking him to sporting events and giving him gifts like a computer, golf clubs, clothing and cash. Sandusky allegedly performs oral sex on the boy over 20 times, and boy performs oral sex on Sandusky at least once, according to grand jury reports.

2008 -- The boy breaks off contact with Sandusky, and his mother calls the high school to report her son has been sexually assaulted. The principal, Steven Turchetta, bars Sandusky from campus and reports the incident to police, calling Sandusky "clingy" and "needy" around the boy. The resulting investigation into the sex abuse claims reveals 118 calls from Sandusky's home phone and cell phone to the boy's home number.

November 2008 -- Sandusky informs The Second Mile that he is under investigation. He is removed from all program activities involving children.

September 2010 -- Sandusky retires from The Second Mile.

Nov. 4, 2011 -- The grand jury report is released.

Nov. 5, 2011 -- Authorities arrest Sandusky. He is charged with seven counts of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse and numerous other charges, including aggravated indecent assault, corruption of minors and endangering the welfare of a child. He is charged with 40 counts n all, 21 of them felonies. Punishment for each of the felonies ranges from seven to 20 years in prison and $15,000-$25,000 in fines. For the 19 misdemeanors, convictions earn two to five years' imprisonment and $5,000-$10,000 in fines.

Nov. 5, 2011 -- Sandusky is freed on $100,000 unsecured bail. Curley and Schultz are each charged with one count of felony perjury for lying to grand jury investigators, and one count of failure to report abuse allegations. They plead not guilty.

Nov. 6, 2011 -- Curley is granted administrative leave to deal with the charges, while Schultz retires.

Nov. 6, 2011 -- Paterno releases a statement calling the charges shocking. "If this is true, we were all fooled, along with scores of professionals trained in such things, and we grieve for the victims and their families." Paterno is questioned about the allegations, since 20 of the charges agaisnt Sandusky to date occured while he was Paterno's defense coordinator at Penn State.

Nov. 7, 2011 -- More begin to step forward. "There were whispers about it," Alex Ricker, a former Penn State student who has worked several Second Mile camps, told USA Today. "But when it came out, I don't think anybody expected that big of a hit or that serious of an indictment, as well as that many charges."

Nov. 7, 2011 -- Pennsylvania attorney general Linda Kelly says Paterno is not a target of the sexual abuse investigation involving his former assistant coach, despite noting his responsibility to report the incidents to law enforcement.

Nov. 7, 2011 -- "I understand that people are upset and angry, but let's be fair and let the legal process unfold," Paterno says in a statement. "In the meantime, I would ask all Penn Staters to continue to trust in what that name represents, continue to pursue their lives every day with high ideals and not let these events shake their beliefs nor who they are."

neosmndrew
11-08-2011, 01:50 PM
I don't mean to be that guy, but Penn State did not violate any NCAA rules (to my knowledge). They broke a crap-ton of laws, and about half of the athletic department is probably guilty of obstruction of justice, but I don't think they deserve NCAA sanctions.

travmil
11-08-2011, 02:30 PM
I'm absolutely positive there's a rule about using university athletics resources in the commission of a crime. I could be wrong but with everything else the NCAA regulates I don't see how there couldn't be.

Trader Joe
11-08-2011, 02:54 PM
Hes done. Plain and simple.

And no, I don't think the NCAA gets involved at this time. This is a law enforcement matter.

Why should Paterno be forced to retire if this is not an NCAA issue? There have been no charges pressed against him.

Either this is an NCAA issue or it is not, and if you think it is not, then I don't understand why you think Paterno should be fired.

Personally, I think he should be fired, and I think it should be a NCAA issue.

Trader Joe
11-08-2011, 03:07 PM
March 2, 2002 -- A graduate assistant allegedly tells Coach Joe Paterno that he saw Sandusky in the locker room shower on Mar. 1 with a young boy. The retired defense coordinator was engaging in anal sex with the boy, believed to be no more than 10 years old.

March 3, 2002 -- Paterno reports the incident to Athletic Director Tim Curley. Paterno tells Curley the grad student had seen Sandusky "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy." The graduate assistant is called to a meeting with Curley and Schultz.

March 3, 2002 -- The assistant, according to the grand jury report, sticks by his story, saying he saw Sandusky having anal sex with the young boy. Schultz, 62, and Curley, 57, told the grand jury they could not remember the details of the meeting. Schultz said Sandusky "might have inappropriately grabbed the young boy's genitals during wrestling," and Curley said he was under the impression, like Schultz, that the affair involved little more than "horsing around."

March, 2002 -- Sandusky's locker room keys are confiscated, and he is told not to bring his Second Mile participants to campus. The incident is not reported to police, and no official investigation is launched.

March, 2002 -- The Second Mile learns of the shower incident through Penn State. Curley tells them that "the information had been internally reviewed, and that there was no finding of wrongdoing."

How is this stretch not an NCAA issue under lack of institutional control? A boy got raped in a NCAA locker room, the athletic director and head coach of a Division 1 football program were told and they didn't call the cops.

In the end though, what happens with the NCAA isn't that important maybe sad that they wouldn't try to police it, but not that important. We just have to hope the courts are able to put everyone away that deserves to be put away.

Trader Joe
11-08-2011, 03:58 PM
Lots of confusing stuff going on right now. PSU cancels the presser, rumors that Paterno was asked to retire and said no and then the board voted him out. Now he is apparently setting up his own off site press conference.

DaveP63
11-08-2011, 05:29 PM
That's what I was trying to figure out. If I witnessed that, the LEAST that's going to happen is I'm grabbing this guy and throwing him against the nearest wall.

Repeatedly until one of us is unconscious.

Cactus Jax
11-08-2011, 07:08 PM
These charges are very serious and disturbing, and everyone at the university should be removed, including Joe Paterno, but what bothers me is just how badly the media wants Paterno to be out of Penn State. This is something that's been boiling for years and they've been trying to get him out for years, they've finally gotten a reason to get him out of there.

I'm not trying to cover the bigger issue which are the disturbing charges, and if true the scumbags involved should get a long jail sentence, but this is a little ridiculous the hatred towards Joe Paterno, unless things change in that regard.

ECKrueger
11-08-2011, 07:40 PM
I guess Paterno had a press conference from his home window recently.

https://twitter.com/#!/PeteThamelNYT/status/134048090616373250

xBulletproof
11-08-2011, 08:22 PM
Anyone who knew about this and didn't go to the police, deserve to rot in ****. In fact, I wouldn't be opposed to sending them there if someone allowed it. I can forgive a ton of things on this planet, but this isn't one of them.

Especially that spineless prick who walked in on it and called his daddy instead of beating that man over the head with the nearest football helmet.

Ugh.

Trader Joe
11-08-2011, 08:46 PM
These charges are very serious and disturbing, and everyone at the university should be removed, including Joe Paterno, but what bothers me is just how badly the media wants Paterno to be out of Penn State. This is something that's been boiling for years and they've been trying to get him out for years, they've finally gotten a reason to get him out of there.

I'm not trying to cover the bigger issue which are the disturbing charges, and if true the scumbags involved should get a long jail sentence, but this is a little ridiculous the hatred towards Joe Paterno, unless things change in that regard.

He was told a 10 year old boy was being raped in his locker rooms and he didn't call the cops. If anything, they're being too nice to Paterno trying to constantly remind us of all the good he has done.

Trader Joe
11-08-2011, 08:49 PM
Good article by SI, including some history of Joe Pa glassing over other issues.


Paterno has done far more good than harm in his career. But if you have been paying attention, you know that he has a bad habit of minimizing serious allegations.
When Penn State receiver Tony Johnson was arrested for driving under the influence a few years ago, Paterno said he would discipline him "just because I have to send a message to the squad that it is inappropriate to be out in the middle of the week having a couple of drinks."
Police said Johnson had a blood-alcohol level of .136, well above the legal limit.
Before a bowl game against Penn State in 2006, Florida State linebacker A.J. Nicholson was accused of sexual assault. Remember: This was not Paterno's player. He didn't have to say anything.
But he said this: "There are so many people gravitating to these kids. Maybe he didn't know what he was getting into, Nicholson. Somebody will knock on the door. A cute girl knocks on the door. What do you do?
"Thank God, they don't knock on my door. I'd refer them to a couple of other rooms.
"But that's too bad. You hate to see that, you really do. You'd like to see a kid end up his career. And he's a heck of a football player, he really is. It's just too bad. That's all I can say. It's just too bad."
To sum up, we have:
1. An administration that feels it can't control Joe Paterno.
2. Paterno's habit of minimizing serious allegations.


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/michael_rosenberg/11/07/pennst.scandal/index.html#ixzz1dAHSbubX

Basketball Fan
11-08-2011, 09:16 PM
Where's Chris Hansen when you need him?

Also if I were a PSU football player I'd never set foot in that lockerroom again.. *shudder*

Slick Pinkham
11-08-2011, 10:41 PM
After reviewing the timeline and reading the whole disgusting grand jury transcript, I was stupid to even half-heartedly try to understand Joe Pa's position earlier in this thread.

The witness description of the showering with a boy in 2002, no matter how detailed or not, was 4 years AFTER the coach was previously investigated (1998), which must have had a lot to do with his sudden retirement a year after that.

If I am Joe Pa, even if the witness simply told me he saw "horseplay in the shower" then I do call the AD just to ask him to meet me and the witness down at the police station, because I know the details. I had reviewed the somewhat similar details 4 years earlier and forced a coach to retire because of it.

Blink
11-08-2011, 10:43 PM
Pretty surprised Sandusky hasn't blown his brains out yet.

Basketball Fan
11-08-2011, 11:08 PM
Pretty surprised Sandusky hasn't blown his brains out yet.

Why? The man has no shred of human decency whatsoever and has been doing this for probably decades at this rate he doesn't feel he's doing anything wrong. After all why would he? Nobody ever held him accountable for it.

Blowing his brains out would be the only decent thing he has ever done at this point.

idioteque
11-09-2011, 09:10 AM
Wow, those Paterno sexual assault comments re: the FSU player are incredibly disgusting.

Since86
11-09-2011, 10:11 AM
These charges are very serious and disturbing, and everyone at the university should be removed, including Joe Paterno, but what bothers me is just how badly the media wants Paterno to be out of Penn State. This is something that's been boiling for years and they've been trying to get him out for years, they've finally gotten a reason to get him out of there.

I'm not trying to cover the bigger issue which are the disturbing charges, and if true the scumbags involved should get a long jail sentence, but this is a little ridiculous the hatred towards Joe Paterno, unless things change in that regard.

How is it ridiculous? These allegations have been surrounding this man for 10+ years and JoePa not only knew about them, but continued to let that scumbag around his program.

If YOU were the coach, and you had a pedophile on your staff, would you just ignore it and watch him continually bring around little boys? I doubt it.

Joe turned his back on the law, on what little morals he did have, and his back to every child in the world. No, I'm not exaggerating. When grown *** men cover something up as horrible as this, it puts kids everywhere in danger. How many lives did he screw up by keeping his mouth shut? There's 9 kids that have stepped forward, and I bet there are many more out there.

It's disgusting, and I hope he spends some of his last days behind bars where he belongs.

Age is not an excuse.

Slick Pinkham
11-09-2011, 11:19 AM
retirement, not immediate, but after the season:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7211281/penn-state-nittany-lions-joe-paterno-retire-end-season-sources-say

That seems to minimize the seriousness of this situation. I think it should be immediate for both JoePa and the assistant coach who did nothing, along with the university president, the AD, etc.

Since86
11-09-2011, 11:24 AM
I hope he's arrested on the sidelines of a game. If he wants to stay in the spotlight, then turn the beams on high.

Trader Joe
11-09-2011, 11:33 AM
retirement, not immediate, but after the season:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7211281/penn-state-nittany-lions-joe-paterno-retire-end-season-sources-say

That seems to minimize the seriousness of this situation. I think it should be immediate for both JoePa and the assistant coach who did nothing, along with the university president, the AD, etc.

I'm going to be really disappointed if they make it to the B1G championship game, luckily their last few games here are pretty tough.

Trader Joe
11-09-2011, 11:35 AM
To me, JoePa staying around just shows that the guy is clearly not altogether upstairs anymore. No one who is thinking straight should want to stay around with these sort of allegations around.

Of course, the university isn't thinking straight either by letting him stay around. Bob Knight was forced out for less, Woody Hayes was forced out for less, why is Joe Paterno being allowed to dictate the terms of how he leaves? Boot his *** out the door already.

However, no one has thought straight or done a sensical thing this whole damn time around Penn State.

Only conclusion that makes sense, the people running Penn State are 1.) asleep at the wheel or 2.) Complete idiots.

Trader Joe
11-09-2011, 11:52 AM
Also, I'm sort of disgusted that the Penn State student body is showing so much support for Paterno. Someone should point out to the 18-22 year old men in the group that was supporting him last night, that they very easily could have been one of those 10-13 year old boys that was abused, assaulted, and demeaned by Sandusky.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7210030/penn-state-nittany-lions-coach-joe-paterno-receives-students-support

Bball
11-09-2011, 11:54 AM
I posted this in another thread but it really belongs here-
I haven't been following this closely but the allegations are so over the top that it makes me think there's something missing here. How could he be so brave and nobody say anything or do anything? That doesn't make sense without more to the story. Even if you'd say that nobody did anything because they were worried about the reputation of the team and university... wouldn't they get rid of this guy for one trumped up reason or another (immediately at the time) before he got caught and the whole thing goes public? Even if they had to pay him money to go away and 'resign'.... Why would they keep him around if they were worried about their reputation?? If he's acting so brazenly as has been alleged then how could they expect this stay on the down low?

I could understand the angle they wouldn't want the story to break so didn't act properly in going to the authorities... I don't agree with that action (or inaction) but understand that argument. But that doesn't explain allowing him to continue on with him being so obvious with what was happening. That's where the disconnect is for me... Has this been explained and I've missed it?

Trader Joe
11-09-2011, 12:00 PM
Bball they did make him "retire" back in 1999, but they allowed him to stay around the university for some un-explained reason.

dal9
11-09-2011, 12:14 PM
Wow...retirement at the end of the season is the absolute minimum they could do...sort of fits the patter of doing the absolute minimum throughout this whole mess...

cheers or boos for JoePa on Saturday?

Slick Pinkham
11-09-2011, 12:21 PM
'devastated' JoePa: "With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more"

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7211281/penn-state-nittany-lions-joe-paterno-retire-end-season

At least there is something in his statement that we can grab onto and say that maybe he gets it.

"I am absolutely devastated by the developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families, and I pray for their comfort and relief"

"I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today."

"That's why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can."

"This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more. My goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the rest of my life doing everything I can to help this university."

travmil
11-09-2011, 12:24 PM
Something along the lines of "I let my love for and loyalty to this university cloud my judgement" would have been more in order. As it is all I hear is a man making excuses for not acting like one.

Trader Joe
11-09-2011, 12:24 PM
The benefit of hindsight? Does he really need benefit of hindsight to see that a boy getting raped in your locker room is wrong? I dunno, I don't think it shows he gets it, I just think it shows he can read a prepared statement.

Slick Pinkham
11-09-2011, 12:38 PM
I am not saying it is nearly enough, but it is at least a sign that somebody at Penn State shows at least an ounce of regret for their own inaction. While that sentiment should be one that is obvious to have, it is one that hasn't been expressed yet, to my knowledge.

The statement still covers up that regret with restating his committment to the university, as is that was equally important.

It also sort of challenges the board of trustees to go against his wishes if they want him out immediately, and as a result it would divide the university even more among his apparent on-campus defenders and his detractors both on-campus and elsewhere.

Trader Joe
11-09-2011, 12:40 PM
IMO, it's just further inaction from a university that has shown it doesn't have the guts to take action.

Bob Knight, Woody Hayes, the landscape is littered with coaches who have been disposed for a lot less.

Slick Pinkham
11-09-2011, 12:49 PM
I don't think the university made this statement or even approved it. We will see what the board of trustees does, and if they have the guts to accelerate the retirement.

Since the university president has yet to say a peep, we know he is either gutless or essentially already out of power. It seems to be up to the board to do the right thing or to cower and do nothing. I would think that they have to say something, though, and TODAY.

Since86
11-09-2011, 12:58 PM
I heard on the radio this morning that the BOT will be meeting today.

Slick Pinkham
11-09-2011, 02:01 PM
get a load of this twit pic of a letter to recruits from the coach who saw a child being raped and neither said nor did anything:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/444214128.png?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1320861946&Signature=2hrhVMvUhkBB3O%2FQrAvMZIWJsvI%3D

http://ology.com/sports/mike-mcqueary-recruiting-letter-told-football-recruits-penn-state-was-without-scandal

Cactus Jax
11-09-2011, 04:08 PM
Maybe what I said was wrong in hindsight, but I think crimes and offenses going unreported to the police by head coaches is more apparant than people think. Players would never want to play for a guy that reports them to the police if they have any sort of criminal capability in them, and the coaches may not want to coach for a guy that reports their issues to the police. (yes it sounds cruel, but it's obvious Sandusky isn't a very sane person)

The only thing close to this seriousness (at least in the major public) the last few years was the dogfighting ring by Michael Vick, and it also seemed in that situation that at least players and maybe coaches had to of ignored that situation until the authorities show up and then all of a sudden everyone comes out.

idioteque
11-09-2011, 08:02 PM
Maybe what I said was wrong in hindsight, but I think crimes and offenses going unreported to the police by head coaches is more apparant than people think.

You might be right. But rape and murder are mentioned together very often because they are such heinous crimes. A coach being complicit in a tattoo-for-merch scandal is probably illustrative of common occurrence in today's NCAA but unreported rape? I hope it hasn't come to that.

Basketball Fan
11-09-2011, 10:28 PM
Bball they did make him "retire" back in 1999, but they allowed him to stay around the university for some un-explained reason.

I bet you he knows serious dirt about these people. I can't think of a logical explanation otherwise.

And while JoePa deserves a lot of blame for this I am bothered by the media pretty much ignoring Mike McQuery in all of this.

At least Sandusky you know he's as good as dead when he goes to prison.

Heisenberg
11-09-2011, 11:14 PM
Paterno gone, effective immediately.

Stay safe Happy Valley.

Trader Joe
11-09-2011, 11:22 PM
Seriously concerned about how the students react to this. Hopefully they are smart.

Heisenberg
11-09-2011, 11:25 PM
This is an incredibly hostile presser

Basketball Fan
11-09-2011, 11:26 PM
While Paterno should be fired Mike McQuery better go with him......

Trader Joe
11-09-2011, 11:32 PM
This is an incredibly hostile presser

Where is it? What's being said?

Heisenberg
11-09-2011, 11:34 PM
Where is it? What's being said?
CNN's got video, it's about over. Just aggressive tones from all the reporters, a bunch of questions about basically questioning the integrity of the board that made the decision.

Not JoePa's integrity, the board's.

Basketball Fan
11-09-2011, 11:39 PM
I can see why the BOT would be questioned.. probably because nobody buys they were clueless either.

I definately don't.

Lance George
11-09-2011, 11:45 PM
Sandusky's biography (http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Jerry-Sandusky-Story/dp/1582613575)...

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web03/2011/11/7/14/enhanced-buzz-28967-1320694254-30.jpg

:hmm:

Trader Joe
11-10-2011, 12:06 AM
So...these students look like asshats.

Also, did you guys know the Big Ten football championship trophy is named after Paterno? Need to change that **** ASAP

Heisenberg
11-10-2011, 12:15 AM
Mike McQueary, the former grad assistant turned WRs coach that saw Sandusky in the showers with a boy, still has a job.

If you're going to fire Paterno for what amounts to "didn't do enough," then WTF?

cdash
11-10-2011, 12:20 AM
So...these students look like asshats.

Also, did you guys know the Big Ten football championship trophy is named after Paterno? Need to change that **** ASAP

They need to change all their stupid trophy and division names. But yeah that one needs to go first.

Trader Joe
11-10-2011, 12:35 AM
Yes, McQueary needs to go as well

Why are they giving the job to someone who has been there for 33 years? CLEAN HOUSE. Fire them all, have no coach for the last 4 games if you have to.

Sandman21
11-10-2011, 12:43 AM
These kids at PSU disgust me. When do you think they'll start burning Sandusky in effigy?

BTW, Sandusky should be thrown in general population once he hits the big house.

BTW: CBS's Gregg Doyel is on the ground. This is going to get ugly:

https://twitter.com/#!/greggdoyelcbs

Trader Joe
11-10-2011, 12:49 AM
How many lives will Jerry Sandusky have ruined by the end of tonight? Hopefully, his terror does not claim any students or police. All we can do is hope at this point, but this crowd has all the makings of a riot waiting to happen. Just one thing needs to happen to set them off.

Trader Joe
11-10-2011, 01:09 AM
At least one news van has fallen victim to the students at Penn State.

pacer4ever
11-10-2011, 01:30 AM
these students are idiots. Joepa is just as guilty as that Sandusky how the **** dont you report it that is just inhumane IMO.


glad there is one intelligent student that ESPN interview. He agreed with the firing and Joepa was morally wrong and they almost are gonna beat him up just for saying that what a damn shame.

Trader Joe
11-10-2011, 01:32 AM
It sounds like the crowd is right on the tipping point of this turning into a full blown riot now. Reports of rocks being thrown, pepper spray, etc.

Trader Joe
11-10-2011, 01:38 AM
All the media reports make the students at Penn State sound like the dumbest people on earth, some guy on ESPN just goes "We're having a hard time finding people who can form cogent sentences."

spreedom
11-10-2011, 01:51 AM
One thing is worth saying (bearing in mind that I am 100% in favor of the removal of Paterno): He is far from the only one to have failed the victims of these crimes.

People are making the mistake of thinking that Paterno is the only one getting sacked. Trust me when I say, that entire athletic department is getting overhauled. Don't make JoePa any kind of sympathetic figure.

Heisenberg
11-10-2011, 01:53 AM
Just something for all the students to think about, a lot of the victims are probably their age. They may have gone to school with them, maybe still do, they can easily know one.

Heisenberg
11-10-2011, 01:57 AM
The circus like press conference (http://deadspin.com/5858146/)

neosmndrew
11-10-2011, 02:28 AM
I'm sorry Trader Joe, but I think you are being completely unfair here with who you are calling disgusting. ONE MAN (allegedly, though all evidence supports that he did) committed these acts. TWO MEN knew about it and did nothing. Joe Paterno knew about it and reported it to those two men and they did nothing. Could JoePa have done more? Obviously. But he did what he should have done and it isn't his fault that the other two did jack ****. Still, you are painting Penn St with much to broad a brush. Of course the students will be angry JoePa is out- he lead them for 45 years, most of which they were in the national spotlight.

I agree that Sandusky is a terrible person and deserves the worst the law can legally dish to him. But calling essentially everyone related to Penn State "disgusting" is too far.

Steagles
11-10-2011, 04:51 AM
You all need to get off JoePas ***, he reported to the AD and it isn't his fault the AD was an idiot. He didn't do anything wrong


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

Kstat
11-10-2011, 08:46 AM
You all need to get off JoePas ***, he reported to the AD and it isn't his fault the AD was an idiot. He didn't do anything wrong



Who cares that he went to his boss? This isn't an NCAA or a football matter!

He should have gone to the POLICE. This line of thinking is unconscionable. In most places in this country, if you know about a child getting abused and you do not go to the police, you go to JAIL.

Now, did Paterno know this for a fact? No, but McQueary did, and he should be behind bars. Paterno had more than enough to take to police though, and he passed the buck and hoped someone else would take care of the problem.

I am so disgusted by this I don't know where to begin. So many adults were in a position to stop this, and nobody did anything until it was too late.

The students who rioted last night over losing their football coach shame both themselves and their university. You just found out multiple children were molested on YOUR campus, by one of YOUR football coaches, and you're rioting over who's going to coach next Saturday? Grow up.

Trader Joe
11-10-2011, 10:05 AM
I'm sorry Trader Joe, but I think you are being completely unfair here with who you are calling disgusting. ONE MAN (allegedly, though all evidence supports that he did) committed these acts. TWO MEN knew about it and did nothing. Joe Paterno knew about it and reported it to those two men and they did nothing. Could JoePa have done more? Obviously. But he did what he should have done and it isn't his fault that the other two did jack ****. Still, you are painting Penn St with much to broad a brush. Of course the students will be angry JoePa is out- he lead them for 45 years, most of which they were in the national spotlight.

I agree that Sandusky is a terrible person and deserves the worst the law can legally dish to him. But calling essentially everyone related to Penn State "disgusting" is too far.

Bob Knight was fired. There were no riots at IU.

Joe Paterno is fired and Penn State acts like it is the end of the world.

Again, the man had a report given to him that a 10 year old boy was anally raped in his locker room and he did not go to the police and what's worse is he allowed that scum, Jerry Sandusky, to continue having an office in the football building even after this was reported. That is the real failing here, why was he allowed to stay around? Joe Pa failed, that is the fact, he failed those kids, he failed future kids, he just failed.

He should have gone to the police, he should have removed Sandusky from the Penn State premises for good. He should have told him to never come back, but he didn't do any of these things. He went to his
"superior" and give me a break, only a complete idiot would think the AD was actually Joe Paterno's superior. No individual person on that campus ranks higher than Paterno and that is just a fact.

Trader Joe
11-10-2011, 10:06 AM
Who cares that he went to his boss? This isn't an NCAA or a football matter!

He should have gone to the POLICE. This line of thinking is unconscionable. In most places in this country, if you know about a child getting abused and you do not go to the police, you go to JAIL.

Now, did Paterno know this for a fact? No, but McQueary did, and he should be behind bars. Paterno had more than enough to take to police though, and he passed the buck and hoped someone else would take care of the problem.

I am so disgusted by this I don't know where to begin. So many adults were in a position to stop this, and nobody did anything until it was too late.

The students who rioted last night over losing their football coach shame both themselves and their university. You just found out multiple children were molested on YOUR campus, by one of YOUR football coaches, and you're rioting over who's going to coach next Saturday? Grow up.

Like someone tweeted last night, all you could really hope as you watched those riots is that none of the victims were watching.

Unclebuck
11-10-2011, 10:53 AM
Anyone else read the grand jury report - very disturbing. so sad that young lives are ruined like that

Trader Joe
11-10-2011, 10:54 AM
Oh...my... God

SHOCKING PENN STATE RUMOR: Jerry Sandusky 'Pimped Out Young Boys To Rich Donors'

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/jerry-sandusky-donors-2011-11#ixzz1dJYpd5gO

Sandman21
11-10-2011, 11:20 AM
If thats true, then I don't think Penn State should be playing Big Ten football next season at the very least.

Heisenberg
11-10-2011, 11:20 AM
Oh...my... God

SHOCKING PENN STATE RUMOR: Jerry Sandusky 'Pimped Out Young Boys To Rich Donors'

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/jerry-sandusky-donors-2011-11#ixzz1dJYpd5gO
That's from Mark Madden. The same guy that wrote about this whole thing 6 months ago and for whatever reason it never got picked up nationally. So it's not like it's just some random guy.

Heisenberg
11-10-2011, 11:23 AM
I honestly think Penn State should consider putting the football program on hiatus indefinitely.

Foul on Smits
11-10-2011, 11:30 AM
That's from Mark Madden. The same guy that wrote about this whole thing 6 months ago and for whatever reason it never got picked up nationally. So it's not like it's just some random guy.

World Championship Wrestling Mark Madden?

Heisenberg
11-10-2011, 11:33 AM
World Championship Wrestling Mark Madden?
Yes. He has a sports radio show in Pittsburgh.

Foul on Smits
11-10-2011, 11:38 AM
Something still smell's funny here. Too many key players in this story, including victims and victims families and more importantly McQueary have been way too quiet for too many years. Why is he still employed right now? When he goes to OSU, he will get eaten alive.

This is going to sound disrespectful on some levels, but I think this hasn't even began to unfold. I think your scape goat has been established with Spanier and Paterno on lesser levels. I honestly believe money has exchanged hands. I think victims and there families have been paid to keep there mouths shut and I think McQueary has also.

Slick Pinkham
11-10-2011, 11:49 AM
ONE MAN (allegedly, though all evidence supports that he did) committed these acts. TWO MEN knew about it and did nothing. Joe Paterno knew about it and reported it to those two men and they did nothing. Could JoePa have done more? Obviously. But he did what he should have done and it isn't his fault that the other two did jack ****.

We know of about a dozen adults who did next-to-nothing- McQueary, his father, JoePa, the AD, the VP, several janitors who witnessed other assaults, others told by those janitors, and probably dozen of witnesses of dozens of assaults we know nothing about, YET.

JoaPa's legal responsibility may well been 100% fulfilled by speaking to the AD and the VP. However, when nothing happened at all with regard to a police investigation or arrest, is it right that he didn't follow up on it? Especially since this was not the first time he know about Sandusky and little boys? When he had to be personally involved with forcing the guy to retire, three years earlier, for fooling around with little boys in the shower?

When JoePa saw Sandusky hanging about the team, the facilities, football events, bowl games, etc, for NINE YEARS afterward, in the company of little boys, did JoePa shake his hand and say "How ya doin' Jerry?" and give the little boy with him a chuck on the shoulder?

His inaction, over years and years, is reprehensible and inexcusable. It's not just one lapse of judgement JoePa made on one day, it was a mistake he consciously chose not to correct, time and time and time again.

avoidingtheclowns
11-10-2011, 01:24 PM
We know of about a dozen adults who did next-to-nothing- McQueary, his father, JoePa, the AD, the VP, several janitors who witnessed other assaults, others told by those janitors, and probably dozen of witnesses of dozens of assaults we know nothing about, YET.

We also know it goes beyond those at Penn State. The people involved with Second Mile were aware of the previous allegations against Sandusky and still provided access to children until 2008.


The nonprofit agency at the center of the Penn State University child sex abuse scandal had warning signs of questionable conduct by its founder, longtime football defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, a full decade before it acted to ban him from contact with children it served.

The Second Mile, a program for at-risk youth, said in a statement that it immediately acted in 2008 to ban Mr. Sandusky from programs involving children when he told them he was under investigation for sexual contact with a juvenile but had denied any wrongdoing.

However, the organization knew as early as 1998 that Mr. Sandusky was under investigation for similar sexual misconduct in a Penn State shower involving a different boy from the program, according to a presentment by a statewide investigating grand jury.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11312/1188304-143.stm

Like Kstat said, it's incomprehensible how many adults turned a blind eye to what was going on and for so long.

Trader Joe
11-10-2011, 02:27 PM
If thats true, then I don't think Penn State should be playing Big Ten football next season at the very least.

They should be kicked out of the ****ing conference if that is true. I want nothing to do with these slime bags. They are a disgrace.

And yes the source seems fairly reliable, I have a feeling this is going to get very, very ugly. My dad actually predicted that something higher than Sandusky was at least OK with this based on the fact it was tolerated for so long, and if rich donors were in on it, well that sort of explains it. What a disturbing story, it's like a horror movie.

cdash
11-10-2011, 02:37 PM
Penn State has entered the Tyson Zone. Nothing will surprise me at this point.

SoupIsGood
11-10-2011, 03:25 PM
The riots really surprise me. I cannot imagine being that obsessively wrapped up in a sports team.

I don't care if my favorite coach ever was fired because he liked butterflies and the AD didn't. Rioting because a coach lost his job. . . I mean maybe I'd write letters or something.

I'm actually kinda scared to read whatever it is TJ linked.

cdash
11-10-2011, 03:28 PM
The riots really surprise me. I cannot imagine being that obsessively wrapped up in a sports team.

I don't care if my favorite coach ever was fired because he liked butterflies and the AD didn't. Rioting because a coach lost his job. . . I mean maybe I'd write letters or something.

I'm actually kinda scared to read whatever it is TJ linked.

They happened in Bloomington when Knight was fired too. I don't think it was to this extent, but there was definitely student protests. College atmospheres are more reactionary and follow a mob mentality more than normal society. Plus rampant drinking/drug use, and you get a formula for this sort of thing.

SoupIsGood
11-10-2011, 03:57 PM
What's the scoop on the grad assistant? How is he still around?

cdash
11-10-2011, 03:58 PM
What's the scoop on the grad assistant? How is he still around?

That's exactly what I want to know. How is this guy still employed for essentially doing the same thing as Paterno?

Trader Joe
11-10-2011, 04:14 PM
Because the leaders of the school are fundamentally morons.

Trader Joe
11-10-2011, 04:16 PM
They happened in Bloomington when Knight was fired too. I don't think it was to this extent, but there was definitely student protests. College atmospheres are more reactionary and follow a mob mentality more than normal society. Plus rampant drinking/drug use, and you get a formula for this sort of thing.

IU just had that gathering in the arboretum, there was nothing even approaching what we saw last night. Students gathered to hear Knight speak and that was it for the most part IIRC, maybe they milled around a bit afterward.

cdash
11-10-2011, 04:53 PM
IU just had that gathering in the arboretum, there was nothing even approaching what we saw last night. Students gathered to hear Knight speak and that was it for the most part IIRC, maybe they milled around a bit afterward.

They did some marching and tooled around Kirkwood with signs and chants and what not. You're right though, it was nothing like that mayhem last night.

Dab
11-10-2011, 05:01 PM
TWO MEN knew about it and did nothing. Joe Paterno knew about it and reported it to those two men and they did nothing. Could JoePa have done more? Obviously. But he did what he should have done and it isn't his fault that the other two did jack ****.

I disagree with the last part. Joepa could have and should have done much more to follow up.

xBulletproof
11-10-2011, 05:10 PM
You all need to get off JoePas ***, he reported to the AD and it isn't his fault the AD was an idiot. He didn't do anything wrong


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

This is the attitude that kept getting kids molested and raped by this monster for another 10 years. Good plan.

Kstat
11-10-2011, 05:33 PM
That's exactly what I want to know. How is this guy still employed for essentially doing the same thing as Paterno?

I can see him possibly trading his job security in return for info on this:

http://www.businessinsider.com/jerry-sandusky-donors-2011-11

I really hope this rumor winds up not to be true....because if so, the entire penn state university is culpable in a conspiracy so wide and sick I find it difficult to fathom.

One sick pedophile was bad enough...but an entire network of penn state pedophiles? With the sick ******* coach acting as a pimp?

No...I can't buy that.

xBulletproof
11-10-2011, 05:46 PM
I can see him possibly trading his job security in return for info on this:

http://www.businessinsider.com/jerry-sandusky-donors-2011-11

I really hope this rumor winds up not to be true....because if so, the entire penn state university is culpable in a conspiracy so wide and sick I find it difficult to fathom.

One sick pedophile was bad enough...but an entire network of penn state pedophiles? With the sick ******* coach acting as a pimp?

No...I can't buy that.

I'd love to not to be able to buy it .... but it kind of reeks of something bigger, doesn't it? The FBI is involved. A prosecutor who had a confession and ignored it. High ranking officials at the school who knew and did nothing. Too many witnesses, and chances for him to get caught, but nobody did anything to stop it .....

As I put it all together it seems more likely, not less. Lets hope I'm wrong.

Trader Joe
11-10-2011, 05:47 PM
I believe anything is possible at this point, the story is already unbelievable anyway and yet it is true.

neosmndrew
11-10-2011, 08:09 PM
All I'm saying is that most of the people who are at fault are being dealt with legally, and I really do not think JoePa is at that much blame. The reason I'm defensive is because this reminds me all too much of a certain series of events that happened at a certain high school I happened to be attending at the time two or so years ago. I was painted with a broad brush like you are painting all of Penn State with now. Granted, the allegations at PSU are much more significant, but it is far from a majority of the program that even knew about it and thus we should sanction these people to the full extent of the law, and those who acted in bad morale standing but not illegally should be removed from their positions (as they are being, minus McQueary) . The students are convinced that Joe Pa isn't at fault here because he did nothing illegal and they are their hero. If Reggie Miller had a huge sex scandal against him, I'd really want to defend him unless he did something so horrific that I could not, and PATERNO, IMO, did not (Sandusky, however, did).

pacer4ever
11-10-2011, 08:24 PM
looks like what i though will happen will. Joepa is hiring a lawyer and trying to defend his name.


NBC News reports Joe Paterno has hired a prominent Washington criminal defense lawyer to represent him in the Penn State sex abuse case

xBulletproof
11-10-2011, 10:21 PM
All I'm saying is that most of the people who are at fault are being dealt with legally, and I really do not think JoePa is at that much blame.

If you're put in a position to defend children who can't defend themselves and you ignore that, yes you're to blame. All it would have taken is one, ONE phone call. It was apparently decided that helping children being raped and molested weren't worth that gargantuan of an effort. Man, that's rough.

Yeah, guess I don't blame him either. :rolleyes:

Trader Joe
11-10-2011, 10:47 PM
All I'm saying is that most of the people who are at fault are being dealt with legally, and I really do not think JoePa is at that much blame. The reason I'm defensive is because this reminds me all too much of a certain series of events that happened at a certain high school I happened to be attending at the time two or so years ago. I was painted with a broad brush like you are painting all of Penn State with now. Granted, the allegations at PSU are much more significant, but it is far from a majority of the program that even knew about it and thus we should sanction these people to the full extent of the law, and those who acted in bad morale standing but not illegally should be removed from their positions (as they are being, minus McQueary) . The students are convinced that Joe Pa isn't at fault here because he did nothing illegal and they are their hero. If Reggie Miller had a huge sex scandal against him, I'd really want to defend him unless he did something so horrific that I could not, and PATERNO, IMO, did not (Sandusky, however, did).

I hope you're never in the position Paterno was in then if you think he did all he could and is not that much to blame. And I mean that in all sincerity.

neosmndrew
11-10-2011, 11:40 PM
I'm not saying Paterno did the right thing, nor am I saying anything close to that. I'm saying he reported it to the people it was his job to report to. Is it stupid that he wasn't supposed to report it to the police? Of course. Should his morale have kicked and and told him to do it anyway? Obviously most of us (including myself) think so. But this is how bureaucracy works, and its situations like this that make all of its downsides evident.

Trader Joe
11-10-2011, 11:43 PM
So you admit he should have gone to the police yet you're willing to continue to trust him to do his job.

cdash
11-10-2011, 11:52 PM
I'm not saying Paterno did the right thing, nor am I saying anything close to that. I'm saying he reported it to the people it was his job to report to. Is it stupid that he wasn't supposed to report it to the police? Of course. Should his morale have kicked and and told him to do it anyway? Obviously most of us (including myself) think so. But this is how bureaucracy works, and its situations like this that make all of its downsides evident.

You know, I'm going to defend you a little here. From the outside, this is so easy, so cut-and-dry, so morally reprehensible, that we can resort to the levels of rhetoric that we have taken to. But I think given the context of the situation and knowing how things really work (sad state of affairs it is) in organizations, these sort of cover ups probably aren't totally uncommon. I'm not going to defend anyone, because the whole thing is horrible, but no one likes to be a whistle-blower, no one wants to be the person to point out scandal in an organization they hold dear to their hearts (and built), no one wants to send a friend or mentor to jail.

Trader Joe
11-10-2011, 11:54 PM
There are certain things you send a friend to jail for, this is one of them.

SoupIsGood
11-10-2011, 11:54 PM
All I'm saying is that most of the people who are at fault are being dealt with legally, and I really do not think JoePa is at that much blame. The reason I'm defensive is because this reminds me all too much of a certain series of events that happened at a certain high school I happened to be attending at the time two or so years ago. I was painted with a broad brush like you are painting all of Penn State with now. Granted, the allegations at PSU are much more significant, but it is far from a majority of the program that even knew about it and thus we should sanction these people to the full extent of the law, and those who acted in bad morale standing but not illegally should be removed from their positions (as they are being, minus McQueary) . The students are convinced that Joe Pa isn't at fault here because he did nothing illegal and they are their hero. If Reggie Miller had a huge sex scandal against him, I'd really want to defend him unless he did something so horrific that I could not, and PATERNO, IMO, did not (Sandusky, however, did).

You agree that he acted immorally and that he should have been fired. What exactly are you objecting to, then?

SoupIsGood
11-11-2011, 12:07 AM
You know, I'm going to defend you a little here. From the outside, this is so easy, so cut-and-dry, so morally reprehensible, that we can resort to the levels of rhetoric that we have taken to. But I think given the context of the situation and knowing how things really work (sad state of affairs it is) in organizations, these sort of cover ups probably aren't totally uncommon. I'm not going to defend anyone, because the whole thing is horrible, but no one likes to be a whistle-blower, no one wants to be the person to point out scandal in an organization they hold dear to their hearts (and built), no one wants to send a friend or mentor to jail.

What he and others did in covering it up or not reporting it is understandable, but that doesn't mean it's excusable. I get that in moments of weakness ordinarilly decent people can do ****** things, but they have to answer for their actions regardless of kind or chummy they normally are.

I guess I don't really get these white-knight Paterno posts. What is the aim? What is he being defended against?

cdash
11-11-2011, 12:10 AM
What he and others did in covering it up or not reporting it is understandable, but that doesn't mean it's excusable. I get that in moments of weakness ordinarilly decent people can do ****** things, but they have to answer for their actions regardless of kind or chummy they normally are.

I guess I don't really get these white-knight Paterno posts. What is the aim? What is he being defended against?

Nah it's not excusable at all. Just because I can sort of understand why they did what they did doesn't make it excusable in any way, shape, or form.

To be clear: I'm not defending Paterno. Like usual, I'm playing devil's advocate and shedding light on the other side of the argument.

cdash
11-11-2011, 12:12 AM
There are certain things you send a friend to jail for, this is one of them.

Absolutely. Really, even if I learned that my best friend in the world did something like this, I would cease to consider them my friend at all. For the record, I don't think that was the main motivation behind the cover up. I think everyone was more concerned about the Penn State institution than any other factor. They didn't want to bring scandal upon what was otherwise a sparkling, clean program. All they did was delay the inevitable and make it about 100 times worse.

Trader Joe
11-11-2011, 12:13 AM
Which is why the whole dirty house needs to be swept clean IMO.

cdash
11-11-2011, 12:17 AM
Which is why the whole dirty house needs to be swept clean IMO.

It is. President out, coach out, AD will be out, after the season the entire coaching staff will be let go I'm sure.

presto123
11-11-2011, 01:07 AM
It is. President out, coach out, AD will be out, after the season the entire coaching staff will be let go I'm sure.

Yep. The whole deck of cards is falling. No doubt about it. wow..........after going back and reading all this thread that's all I can say. I had read the grand jury report but that is all I knew. Like Trader Joe said this is like a horror movie. Will the investigation bring the true scope of everything that was going on? It's already a huge story but this could grow into a story so huge and far reaching that none of us could have anticipated. Wonder how many total victims there was once all this comes out? Sad.

neosmndrew
11-11-2011, 02:20 AM
You agree that he acted immorally and that he should have been fired. What exactly are you objecting to, then?

This whole vibe I'm getting that he is just as much to blame as Sandusky. He isn't.

Kstat
11-11-2011, 02:50 AM
Nobody is saying that....not one person. Sandusky is going to prison. all Paterno lost was his job, which was 8 years overdue.

Cactus Jax
11-11-2011, 08:10 AM
Well I just don't like how the media there is handling things, after the board decided to fire Joe Pa, and the president, the first question asked (by multiple people at once) is: Who's coaching the football game on saturday? That's what disturbes me about the media. There should be more said about the victims, what they've had to deal with and not about a stupid football game.

Dab
11-11-2011, 10:10 AM
It's going to get uglier, no doubt about that.

Joe Pa was in a unique position that few coaches attain; he had become an institution, and wielded considerably more power than the average college coach, power he could have used years ago to put a stop to this. The obvious local parallel is Coach Bob Knight. Knight also became an institution and had a lot of influence (some would say too much) at IU. Knight had his failings but I can guarantee he would not only nipped this in the bud, he would have confronted the predator directly and probably would have kicked his a**.

Penn State needs to seriously consider dropping football entirely for a year or two, IMO.

Since86
11-11-2011, 10:19 AM
I'm most definitely saying he's on par with Sandusky.

Joe Paterno might not have known it was anal rape, but he KNEW it was "fondling or something of a sexual nature." I put that in quotation marks because that is the phrase that the Grand Jury report uses that JoePa told investigators. That is what he told the police, when they asked what he reported to Curley, the AD.

If you KNEW that someone around your program was "fondling" or doing "something of a sexual nature" to little boys in the shower stalls of your locker room, do you really keep your mouth shut about it for 9 ****ing years?

HELL NO!

He continued to ignore the situation, while Sandusky was bringing around MORE children to the football facilities. He knew Sandusky was at worst a child molester and didn't care enough to remove him from his facilities.

That is allowing it to happen. He might as well paid for a hotel room, or drove the boy to Sandusky.

His actions allowed children to be raped. Period.


He should not only lose his job. He should go to jail. Age is not an excuse.

Since86
11-11-2011, 10:26 AM
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/Presentment.pdf

There is the Grand Jury report, page 7, paragraph 3. Read it for your own eyes.

Not only that, but Sandusky was fired in 1999 for sexually assualting a young boy. PSU felt they had enough reason to fire him, but they continued to watch him bring young boys around the facilities.

It's disgusting.

They blantantly watched a known pedophile parade his children around and they didn' do anything to stop him. Oh, they took away his keys. My bad.

cdash
11-11-2011, 10:48 AM
I'm most definitely saying he's on par with Sandusky.

Joe Paterno might not have known it was anal rape, but he KNEW it was "fondling or something of a sexual nature." I put that in quotation marks because that is the phrase that the Grand Jury report uses that JoePa told investigators. That is what he told the police, when they asked what he reported to Curley, the AD.

If you KNEW that someone around your program was "fondling" or doing "something of a sexual nature" to little boys in the shower stalls of your locker room, do you really keep your mouth shut about it for 9 ****ing years?

HELL NO!

He continued to ignore the situation, while Sandusky was bringing around MORE children to the football facilities. He knew Sandusky was at worst a child molester and didn't care enough to remove him from his facilities.

That is allowing it to happen. He might as well paid for a hotel room, or drove the boy to Sandusky.

His actions allowed children to be raped. Period.


He should not only lose his job. He should go to jail. Age is not an excuse.

See, I can't agree with this line of thinking. A guy who had second hand knowledge of alleged misconduct, who reported it to his superiors, should be on par with the guy that did the actual act? Can't buy into that. You are really twisting this situation into your own narrative at this point.

Since86
11-11-2011, 11:57 AM
Joe Paterno knew that Jerry Sandusky was a child molester since 1999. Sandusky was fired that year for taking a shower with a little boy.

If you knew one of your friends was a child molester, would you watch him walk around your football facilities with children for another 12 years?

I doubt it.


Read the Grand Jury report. Joe Pa told investigators that Sandusky was "fondling" or doing "something of a sexual nature" in 2002. So you fired the man for child abuse in 1999, you were told he was again in the shower with a little boy "fondling" him or subjecting him to "something of a sexual nature" and you don't tell anyone other than your Athletic Director?

You feel comfortable enough to allow Sandusky with unlimited access to your facilities with children?

Get real.

If you know someone is preying on little kids, and you turn your back and ignore the situation, you are allowing it to happen.

If it's not the law, then it needs to be changed. You should be required by law to report sexual assualts to the police, period. It's disgusting.

Joe Paterno and Mike McQueary absolutely disgust me. They actively participated in the covering up of multiple children being molested and watched him parade around possible victims.

They all share responsibility.

cdash
11-11-2011, 12:08 PM
Joe Paterno knew that Jerry Sandusky was a child molester since 1999. Sandusky was fired that year for taking a shower with a little boy.

If you knew one of your friends was a child molester, would you watch him walk around your football facilities with children for another 12 years?

I doubt it.


Read the Grand Jury report. Joe Pa told investigators that Sandusky was "fondling" or doing "something of a sexual nature" in 2002. So you fired the man for child abuse in 1999, you were told he was again in the shower with a little boy "fondling" him or subjecting him to "something of a sexual nature" and you don't tell anyone other than your Athletic Director?

You feel comfortable enough to allow Sandusky with unlimited access to your facilities with children?

Get real.

If you know someone is preying on little kids, and you turn your back and ignore the situation, you are allowing it to happen.

If it's not the law, then it needs to be changed. You should be required by law to report sexual assualts to the police, period. It's disgusting.

Joe Paterno and Mike McQueary absolutely disgust me. They actively participated in the covering up of multiple children being molested and watched him parade around possible victims.

They all share responsibility.

I don't disagree with any of that. I just don't think Paterno is "on par" with Sandusky, who, you know, actually committed the crimes.

Basketball Fan
11-11-2011, 12:19 PM
You know the more I think about it even if Joe Pa took it to a higher authority(outside of campus police) I still think this was going to end up covered up because they're enslaved to the institution that is Penn State.

You have to protect the reputation at all costs regardless of human decency. You may think I'm overreacting but doesn't it sound like this is why they tried to keep this hidden for so long? I mean what did the police do? Nothing the BOT? Nothing.. Nobody did anything except delay the inevitable.

That and the men loving boys network is highly influential and powerful. Either he kept his mouth shut or he disappears like the DA from this case did.

Not to absolve Joe Pa because that's impossible here but I think this is actually bigger than him and the President of Penn State at this point.

Since86
11-11-2011, 12:19 PM
If you know someone is preying on children, and you do nothing to stop them, you are responsible for those victims. Your inaction lead to the terrorizing of more victims. You had the power to prevent them from being molested, and you refused to do anything.

You allowed it to happen. (Collective you, of course)

cdash
11-11-2011, 12:22 PM
We have a fundamental difference of opinion. That is all.

Since86
11-11-2011, 01:32 PM
And now one of the mothers of a victim, victim #1 in the Grand Jury report, say's that Sandusky was taking her son out of school without her knowledge or consent.





The woman, who was not identified, said: "I'm infuriated. ... Even if [Penn State] had the slightest inclination that anything inappropriate was going on it should have been reported, or at least brought to my attention. I didn't even know he was leaving the school with my child, taking him out of classes. They never told me that."



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/police_launch_inquiry_into_possible_zTzo2AQXIPJ1nb gZbGVcTJ#ixzz1dQ1YxDJH

presto123
11-11-2011, 02:51 PM
See, I can't agree with this line of thinking. A guy who had second hand knowledge of alleged misconduct, who reported it to his superiors, should be on par with the guy that did the actual act? Can't buy into that. You are really twisting this situation into your own narrative at this point.

No he shouldn't be on par with Sandusky but Paterno and any other administrator who repeatedly saw Sandusky with young boys after the first incident turned a blind eye because of the damage it would do to the PROGRAM. They knew what was going on. They are partially responsible for every other victim after that and there has to a price to pay for such blatant disregard of young victims. And this went on for years and years. It truly is sickening.

cdash
11-11-2011, 02:58 PM
No he shouldn't be on par with Sandusky but Paterno and any other administrator who repeatedly saw Sandusky with young boys after the first incident turned a blind eye because of the damage it would do to the PROGRAM. They knew what was going on. They are partially responsible for every other victim after that and there has to a price to pay for such blatant disregard of young victims. And this went on for years and years. It truly is sickening.

I know this. Haven't argued otherwise. I just don't think he's on par with Sandusky. The rest, I absolutely agree with.

Trader Joe
11-11-2011, 03:59 PM
I don't think Paterno's on par with Sandusky, however I guess there are just different levels of scum. Compliant scum and active scum.

Since86
11-11-2011, 05:09 PM
Thought I'd share this. Very good article, but it sounds like to me a man that understands what is happening, but he's just not ready to accept the god-awful role Paterno played during the ordeal. Like knowing your dad just died, but not really accepting it fully.

But still a very good article and worth the time to read, IMHO.



The End of Paterno (http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/11/10/the-end-of-paterno/)



Let me start with this: I am writing a book about Joe Paterno. I am getting paid a sizable amount of money to do so, some of which I plan to donate to the charity of Joe’s choice, some of which I plan to keep. I have been working on this book, on and off, speed bumps and traffic jams, for a couple of years now. I moved away from my family, to State College, for the football season. I had many hard feelings about that. But I believed — as my wife believed — that it was the right thing to do. I came here to write about one of the giants of sports.
And my wife and I both felt that the only way to tell the story, for better and worse, was to be around it every day.

The last week has torn me up emotionally. This doesn’t matter, of course. All
that matters are the victims of the horrible crimes allegedly committed by former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky. I cannot say that enough times.

Sometimes, I feel like the last week or so there has been a desperate race among commentators and others to prove that they are MORE against child molesting than anyone else. That makes me sick. We’re all sickened. We’re all heartbroken. We’re all beyond angry, in a place of rage where nothing seems real. The other day, I called it “howling.” I meant that in the purest sense of the word — crying in pain.


So, two points to get out of the way:

1. I think Joe Paterno had the responsibility as a leader and a man to stop the horrific rapes allegedly committed by Jerry Sandusky, and I believe he will have regrets about this for the rest of his life.

2. Because of this, Joe Paterno could no longer coach at Penn State University.
Beyond these two points, though, I said (http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/11/06/darkness/) I wasn’t going to write about this because I feel like there’s still a lot of darkness around. I don’t know what Joe Paterno knew. I don’t know how he handled it. I don’t know if he followed up. I don’t know anything about Paterno’s role in this except for what little was said about that in the horrifying and stomach-turning grand jury findings (http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf). People have jumped to many conclusions about Paterno’s role and his negligence, and they might be right. I’ll say it again: They might be right. But they might be wrong, too. And I’m writing a book about the man. I can’t live in that world of maybes.

It hasn’t been easy to stay silent — nor is it my personality. As anyone who knows me will tell you, I will write 5,000 words about an infomercial I don’t like. But I thought it was important that I stay out of the middle of this, observe the scene, and I still think that’s important.

But — well, I’ve already said that my emotions don’t matter here, that they are nothing like what the victims went through, but for the purposes of this essay I’ll tell you them anyway: I’ve been wrecked the last week. Writing a book comes from the soul. It consumes you — mentally, emotionally, spiritually, all of it. I have thought about Joe Paterno, his strengths, his flaws, his triumphs, his failures, his core, pretty much nonstop for months now. I have talked to hundreds of people about him in all walks of life. I have read 25 or 30 books about him, countless articles. I’m not saying I know Joe Paterno. I’m saying I know a whole lot about him.

And what I know is complicated. But, beyond complications — and I really believe this with all my heart — there’s this, and this is exclusively my opinion: Joe Paterno has lived a profoundly decent life.

Nobody has really wanted to say this lately, and I grasp that. The last week has obviously shed a new light on him and his program — a horrible new light — and if you have any questions about how I feel about all that, please scroll back up to my two points at the top.

But I have seen some things in the last few days that have felt rotten, utterly wrong — a piling on that goes even beyond excessive, a dancing on the grave that makes me ill. Joe Paterno has lived a whole life. He has improved the lives of countless people. I know — I’ve talked to hundreds of them. Almost every day I walk by the library that he and his wife, Sue, built. I walk by the religious center that tries to bring people together, and his name is on the list of major donors. I hear the stories, the countless stories, of the kindnesses that came naturally to him, of the way he stuck with people in their worst moments, of the belief he had that everybody could do a little bit better — as a football player, as a student, as a human being. I’m not going to tell you these stories now, because you can’t hear them. Nobody can hear them in the howling.

But I will say that I am sickened, absolutely sickened, that some of those people whose lives were fundamentally inspired and galvanized by Joe Paterno have not stepped forward to stand up for him this week, have stood back and allowed him to be painted as an inhuman monster who was only interested in his legacy, even at the cost of the most heinous crimes against children imaginable.

Shame on them.

And why? I’ll tell you my opinion: Because they were afraid. And I understand that. A kind word for Joe Paterno in this storm is taken by many as a pro vote for a child molester. A quick, “Wait a minute, Joe Paterno is a good man. Let’s see what happened here” is translated as an attempt to minimize the horror of what Jerry Sandusky is charged with doing. It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you.

And that’s shameful. I have not wanted to speak because it’s not my place to speak. I’m Joe Paterno’s biographer. I’m here to write about the man. I’m not here to write a fairy tale, and I’m not here to write a hit job, and I hope to be nowhere near either extreme. I’m here to write a whole story. I’ve had people ask me: “Will you include all this in the book?” Well, OF COURSE I will — this is the tragic ending of a legendary career. I’m going to wait for evidence, and if it turns out that Joe Paterno knowingly covered this up, then I will write that with all the power and fury I have in me.

I will wait, though. I will have to wait.

But then, yeah, I opened my big mouth. On Thursday morning, I went to speak at the “Paterno and the Media” class on the Penn State campus — I have spoken at the class the last two or three years. This was obviously one day after Paterno had been fired, and the campus had been turned inside out. I woke up wondering if I really should go. But I decided I had to go.

And when I was asked questions, I had to say how I felt. It spilled out of me. I suppose it caused a bit of a Twitter uproar — I say “I suppose,” because for the first time in memory I am not checking Twitter, and I think I’ll stay away for a while — but what I remember saying is:

1. Joe Paterno is responsible for what happens on his watch. Period.

2. People are making assumptions about what Joe did or didn’t know, what Joe did or didn’t do, and I can’t tell you that those assumptions are wrong. But I can tell you that they are assumptions based on one side of the story.

3. We are in a top-you world where everyone is not only trying to report something faster but is also trying to report something ANGRIER. One guy wants Joe Paterno to resign, the next wants him to be fired, the next wants him to be fired this minute, the next wants him to be fired and arrested, the next wants him to be fired, arrested and jailed, on and on, until we’ve lost sight of who actually committed the crimes here.

4. I think the University could not possibly have handled this worse. It was disgusting and disgraceful, the method in which they fired Joe Paterno after 60 years of service, and yes, I do think Paterno was a scapegoat. Of course he was. I’ve already said that he had to be let go. But to let him dangle out there, take up all the headlines, face the bulk of the media pressure, absolutely, that’s the very definition of scapegoat. Three people were indicted and arrested. A fourth, I hear, will be indicted soon. Joe Paterno is not one of the four.

5. It is still unclear what Paterno did in this case. It will remain unclear for a while. You might be one of the hundreds and hundreds of people I’ve heard from who know EXACTLY what Paterno did. He HAD to know this. He DEFINITELY knew that. He COULD have done something. I respect that. Joe Paterno’s a public figure. You have every right to believe what you want to believe and be absolutely certain about it. But since we have not heard from Joe, not heard from former athletic director Tim Curley, not heard from GA/assistant coach Mike McQueary, not heard from anyone who was in the room, I’ll repeat: It’s unclear. A determined grand jury did not charge Joe Paterno with any crime. A motivated reporting barrage, so far, anyway, has not uncovered a single thing that can tell us definitively what Joe Paterno knew.

You can say that he knew enough to stop this, and I’d say you were right. I have tried so hard to make it clear that I am not defending Joe Paterno’s actions or inactions, but I know that won’t be enough. You may be writing an email right now telling me how terrible child molestation is, how awful a person Joe Paterno is, how awful a person I am for wanting to wait and see. I understand. This case hits emotions that are unstoppable.

But I will say this: Paterno has paid a price here. His job is gone. His life’s work has been soiled. His reputation is in tatters. Maybe that should be the price. Maybe there should be more of a price. You don’t have to type: “Well, his price is nothing like the price of those victims…” I already know that.

But I think the way Joe Paterno has lived his life has earned him something more than instant fury, more than immediate assumptions of the worst, more than the happy cheers of critics who have always believed that there was something phony about the man and his ideals. He deserves what I would hope we all deserve — for the truth to come out, or, anyway, the closest thing to truth we can find.

I don’t think Joe Paterno has gotten that. And I think that’s sad.
And with that, I’m going back underground to wrestle with my book and doubts and emotions and everything that goes with that.

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/11/10/the-end-of-paterno/

Stryder
11-11-2011, 07:47 PM
I'm no legal scholar. Is Btown still around?

Could Paterno or any other be charge with being an accessory to these Sandusky charges? They knew of the crime being committed and failed to report it to authorities. In a sense they also encouraged it by allowing access to facilities, etc. I know in some jurisdictions, criminal facilitation can be considered.

Is this possible?

Young
11-11-2011, 07:52 PM
I'm no legal scholar. Is Btown still around?

Could Paterno or any other be charge with being an accessory to these Sandusky charges? They knew of the crime being committed and failed to report it to authorities. In a sense they also encouraged it by allowing access to facilities, etc. I know in some jurisdictions, criminal facilitation can be considered.

Is this possible?

I don't know that he can be charged as an accessory. It is illegal to not report child abuse in Indiana. I don't know what the law in Pennsylvania though. From the way it sounds Pennsylvania doesn't have such a law.

http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/law-says-all-hoosiers-must-report-child-abuse%2C-neglect

Kstat
11-11-2011, 09:37 PM
McQueary is gone. He saw the writing on the wall and fired himself.

Basketball Fan
11-11-2011, 11:23 PM
McQueary is gone. He saw the writing on the wall and fired himself.

A pity he didn't do it sooner

cdash
11-11-2011, 11:36 PM
McQueary is gone. He saw the writing on the wall and fired himself.

Didn't realize he was a ginger. That explains a lot.

Heisenberg
11-12-2011, 12:44 AM
McQueary's on PAID leave, he didn't quit. At this point the only thing I can think of is he's cooperating in some kind of investigation or something.

Kstat
11-12-2011, 12:45 AM
He told his football tram he quit.

SoupIsGood
11-12-2011, 12:48 AM
Well I just don't like how the media there is handling things, after the board decided to fire Joe Pa, and the president, the first question asked (by multiple people at once) is: Who's coaching the football game on saturday? That's what disturbes me about the media. There should be more said about the victims, what they've had to deal with and not about a stupid football game.

This does kind of irk me. Whenever I catch ESPN it seems like it's crimping their style to have to think about something other than sports. Considering that these games are played by men of the correct age range to have potentionally been a victim of the abuse, it just seems really messed up.

Seeing Millen's fury toward the end of the reaction-bit he gave was one of the few things that made me feel not totally alienated by the (tv) coverage of this.

SoupIsGood
11-12-2011, 01:15 AM
I don't think Paterno's on par with Sandusky, however I guess there are just different levels of scum. Compliant scum and active scum.


Does it make sense that I agree with both this and since?


Ultimately I think it's just as dishonorable and immoral to be the primary actor in a heinous crime as it is to be the guy(s) chilling in the background financing it, or shielding it from the public/police, or what have you. And it's not like Since is coming out of nowhere with his reasoning: whether it's the more recent parables you always hear about the "good Germans" or Thoreau writing about the relation of a just man to unjust institutions in "Civil Disobedience," you can trace a long line of moral thought that holds no punches when it comes to the "background actors," if that makes sense.

And yet it would seem to take a unique level of clinical perversity (or even psychopathy? general evilness?) to actually be the person shoving his penis into a 10-y/o boy. Rather than just being the dude at a desk who's too scared of potential institutional backlash to do anything about it. Both are immense failings, but imo the latter is more ordinary, more boringly human.

I guess if we're talking about the net destruction done to young lives and who should be held accountable, I have to side with Since, since it seems like the most comprehensive and just line of reasoning. Anything other seems like shortchanging the victims. Yet if we're talking about clinical makeup and how creepy/evil/sociopathic any of the given actors may be, I'm going to agree with those who say there's something exceptional about Sandusky.

Trader Joe
11-12-2011, 01:27 AM
I don't think I really disagree with Since :shrug: I wouldn't be upset if I found out Paterno was going to jail.

What's that old quote

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

vapacersfan
11-12-2011, 10:30 AM
McQueary is gone. He saw the writing on the wall and fired himself.

I heard legally he cannot be fired due to whisteblowing laws.

Some disturbing stories coming out this morning. I will post them here in a minute

vapacersfan
11-12-2011, 10:31 AM
Take a wild guess on who was still helping with recruiting last year.

http://www.wyff4.com/news/29738465/d...oFYfCg.twitter (http://www.wyff4.com/news/29738465/detail.html#.Tr17KoFYfCg.twitter)

vapacersfan
11-12-2011, 10:32 AM
Anyone read this from espn? Sorry if already posted.


No, but another former Nittany Lion said he hasn't forgotten Sandusky, even as the former assistant coach stands accused of having sex with young boys.

Sam Stellatella, a three-position player in the 1950s, has donated money to Sandusky's defense and urged other former players to do the same.

"I told him he's going to need a million dollars to defend himself," the 73-year-old Stellatella said. "He called me back and said, 'What am I going to do with this money?' I said, 'Use it for your lawyer because you're going to need it.' "

vapacersfan
11-12-2011, 10:34 AM
nyone seen this yet?

Sandusky may face child sex abuse charges in Texas (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45255919/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/)

SAN ANTONIO, Texas — Prosecutors in Texas have opened an investigation into the possibility of filing charges against former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, police have said.

The move comes following the release of grand jury testimony indicating Sandusky may have sexually assaulted one of his young victims when the Penn State team was in San Antonio for the 1999 Alamo Bowl.

"We are looking into the possibility that an offense may have happened in San Antonio," San Antonio Police Sergeant Chris Benavides said.

Unsealed grand jury testimony in the Sandusky case in Pennsylvania indicates that a now 27-year-old man described in the transcript as "Victim Number Four" testified he was brought to San Antonio as part of the "Sandusky family party" to watch the Nittany Lions beat Texas A&M in the 1999 Alamo Bowl.

vapacersfan
11-12-2011, 10:35 AM
From another forum (http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?357983-The-Mess-going-on-at-Penn-state-Thread/page67)



I work with a retired cop.
His explanation is this... in the past, when he was called to a "burglary" it was often reduced to "theft." And it wasn't his call. He would do what his superiors asked. When crime is low, you want statistics to reinforce that. And the greater area--town or city or county--want crime statistics to be low. It makes the area appear safe and most of the time they are safe. Then there are outlier stats that don't fit in with the usual stats. Efforts are made to reduce them.

This is common nationwide. And it's not unusual at all. In my opinion, it is wrong, wrong, WRONG.

It appears Curley may have wanted things to appear less severe b/c of the over-arching consequences of a larger crime. And for that--and many other retarded decisions--he should be JAILED for a very long time.

There is no doubt in my mind that many involved in this scandal have a CYA file at home. (Cover Your *** file). And that file is probably loaded with proof of every single thing they were involved in, including memo's that proved they were trying to have the pedophilia investigated with no help form the higher ups. My coworker still has his CYA file to this day. There is no doubt in my mind that McQueary is still employed for 2 reasons... 1.) he has a CYA file and dares them to fire him... and 2.) I think he falls under the protection of Whistle-blower laws in PA.

vapacersfan
11-12-2011, 10:36 AM
http://twitter.com/BryanDFischer/sta...77450316120064 (http://twitter.com/BryanDFischer/statuses/135077450316120064)
Interesting. RT @CBSSportsPSU: #nittanylions Report: UVa coach contacted about job, not interested bit.ly/tLiT1R

vapacersfan
11-12-2011, 10:38 AM
Here is a post on a running board from a PSU Alum, who held American records in distance running ... WARNING - GRAPHIC

"Maybe you are still Penn State, but I am not.

I am requesting that any association between myself and Penn State be terminated. All references linking me to Penn State -- in text or images in Penn State media guides and the PSU Hall of Shame -- shall be removed permanently. I do not bleed blue and white, I bleed red. I could give a damn about the institution whose negligence created the atmosphere and opportunity for a monster to stalk the community for victims. I’m outraged by the misconduct by those enablers who allowed this scandal to happen.

I’m turning my back on you and all those who still support Penn State.

If I were to drive down to Penn State All Sports Museum tomorrow, with an HD video recorder and a can of spray paint in hand, and spray-painted over an image of myself “**** YOU JOE”. Do you think the university would sit on the incident and do nothing for 13 years?

Penn State Football has never been the lily-white program that has been portrayed. It was an isolated an untouchable regime, a culture that was cultivated by Joe Paterno and enabled by blind and diffident University officials and an adoring fan base. It was corrupt to the core.

The Sandusky child rape incidents were not an anomaly. They were the culmination of the leitmotiv that had spanned decades.

In 1973, Penn State quarterback Tom Shuman raped a freshman student. Paterno himself got involved and intimidated the girl, and charges never saw the light of day. I have no doubt that over Paterno’s storied career on the field there were many other such misdeeds off of it, this latest one being exposed only because of the heinousness and repulsiveness of crimes. Had it been merely another rape, you would have never heard a thing.

If you don’t believe what I just said then copy it and send it to Paterno, his high profile legal team, the Pennsylvania Attorney General, and the interim football coach Tom Bradley. Please…. make my day. Pablo knows where to find me.

Why do you think that Sandusky was butt-****ing little boys in the Penn State showers? Ask yourself that question. The answer is easy – because the Penn State showers were a safe zone for him. He knew it.

What the hell was he doing taking showers little boys in the first place?

Who the hell thought sleepovers were a good idea?

“Horseplay” and “soap games” in the showers? WTF? I don’t remember anything like that when I was at Penn State.

There were no grown-ups to be found anywhere at Penn State. Not once did anyone say, “Sleepovers? What the **** is the matter with you?”

Had Sandusky been screwing his WIFE in the Penn State lockerrooms, that would have been grounds for dismissal. Butt-****ing little boys? Let’s have a meeting at Joe’s house. Then another meeting. Let’s not rush to judgment here, ....

Right or wrong, Joe Paterno WAS the ultimate authority at Penn State. Nothing ever happened in Happy Valley without Joe knowing it. NOTHING. It is an insular culture much like the Mafia or the Nike Corporation. Paterno had his own set of rules. Wonder why Mike McCreary didn’t do more than he did? If he broke the code of omerta and he’d never, ever, have a coaching career.

Many of Sandusky’s victims would not have been, had it not been for one man: JOE PATERNO, and his wiliness to protect his close friend, Sandusky.

If you read the chronology of the Penn State can you honestly say that at any other football program in the land that Sandusky would have had access to Penn State facilities, even after it was known he was raping little boys? Can you say that?

In the end it was Joe Paterno himself, who showed what he was made of. The lasting images of Joe Paterno’s legacy was on full display for the world to see: a vacuous student body in full support of a senile old man with a corrupt soul. Paterno was shown falling-down drunk on a Grande narcissistic cocktail, in front of hundreds of revelers, as they conducted a pep-rally on his yard – completely oblivious to gravity of the scandal, and the despicable conduct that occurred because of the environment that he had created."

Basketball Fan
11-12-2011, 11:22 AM
While I don't doubt that guys story here I don't buy that Joe Pa was the most powerful person at Penn State. Most recognizable yes. Especially since this took more than him covering it up and in the end even he was expendable. Like I said there's a reason the DA disappeared from that case he's the only person brave enough to expose all this and say it was wrong.

Joe Pa, and the rest of the coaching staff would've shared that same fate as well...

Shade
11-12-2011, 12:20 PM
This whole situation is just so surreal, and keeps getting even more and more bizarre with each passing report.

This is the kind of thing that can completely destroy an institution. And, in this case, it looks to be deserved.

Just unreal.

Hicks
11-12-2011, 12:45 PM
Didn't realize he was a ginger. That explains a lot.

I'm baffled that these jokes are socially acceptable.

cdash
11-12-2011, 01:21 PM
I'm baffled that these jokes are socially acceptable.

Oh for crying out loud...

Delete it if you are so offended by it.

idioteque
11-12-2011, 02:10 PM
Here is a post on a running board from a PSU Alum, who held American records in distance running ... WARNING - GRAPHIC

"Maybe you are still Penn State, but I am not.



Didn't want to quote the whole thing, but this story seems entirely plausible to me and his depiction of the culture of Penn State football is entirely realistic. If you don't think JoePa was in any way as powerful as he was depicted here, then you didn't go to a high school or college where football was a key revenue generator for the school. I did, and it was fairly obvious that football players had much more free reign than everyone else both because football is so popular and because they made so much money for the school. Sports, and specifically football, trump nearly everything in America.

Hicks
11-12-2011, 02:14 PM
Oh for crying out loud...

Delete it if you are so offended by it.

All I'm saying is swap out 'ginger' for some other ethnic reference of a similar nature to somebody other than red-heads and see how softly people react to that.

Stryder
11-12-2011, 02:17 PM
All I'm saying is swap out 'ginger' for some other ethnic reference of a similar nature to somebody other than red-heads and see how softly people react to that.

But the fact remains it isn't an ethnicity or ethnic reference, etc. It's a damned red head joke...you know like the millions of blonde jokes out there?

:)

cdash
11-12-2011, 02:18 PM
All I'm saying is swap out 'ginger' for some other ethnic reference of a similar nature to somebody other than red-heads and see how softly people react to that.

People take things so seriously on message boards. I said the exact same thing to my actual ginger friend and he laughed. Comparing the term "ginger" to other, admittedly offensive, terms for races or religious groups is not apples to apples. It's more fun and light hearted. The red headed person who is offended by the term "ginger" is the red headed person with absolutely no sense of humor.

Hicks
11-12-2011, 02:24 PM
You know, I don't want to hijack this any further, so I'll drop it.

Sookie
11-12-2011, 03:35 PM
Penn State University seems to have a history of just covering stuff up. Rene Portland, the former Women's basketball coach, used to essentially harass, discriminate, abuse, "Create a hostile environment" (whatever you want to call it) any girl on her team that she believed was homosexual. This didn't get to widespread because, it's women's basketball, Portland retired quietly etc..

Paterno (and I'm sure the Athletic Department knew) apparently covered up rape from his players.

And now we have this. Something that is so far beyond the ideas of human decency...

I think if an Athletic Department would cover up something as heinous as this, other pretty damn awful crimes in the Football program, and coverup a less significant program, then perhaps an entire investigation needs to be done with Penn State Athletics. Seems like there's a pattern here. This is clearly an athletic department that thought they were above everyone else. And there may be other people being hurt just because a department wants to keep the University's "good name"

dal9
11-12-2011, 04:35 PM
People take things so seriously on message boards. I said the exact same thing to my actual ginger friend and he laughed. Comparing the term "ginger" to other, admittedly offensive, terms for races or religious groups is not apples to apples. It's more fun and light hearted. The red headed person who is offended by the term "ginger" is the red headed person with absolutely no sense of humor.



substitute "absolutely no sense of humor" with "not that sensitive"...I mean objectively, it is just not that funny...

also it IS very funny that your defense is the exactly the same as the one you get with ethnic jokes:

"i have plenty of [insert ethnicity] friends and they don't mind when I use the term"

cdash
11-12-2011, 05:23 PM
substitute "absolutely no sense of humor" with "not that sensitive"...I mean objectively, it is just not that funny...

also it IS very funny that your defense is the exactly the same as the one you get with ethnic jokes:

"i have plenty of [insert ethnicity] friends and they don't mind when I use the term"

:laugh:

Man, you people. Okay, here goes: I apologize to any red haired, freckled men/women who might have been offended by my unfunny joke.

dal9
11-12-2011, 05:25 PM
^what do you mean "YOU PEOPLE???!!!"

cdash
11-12-2011, 05:27 PM
^what do you mean "YOU PEOPLE???!!!"

:laugh:

Best possible response. For that, I think it's time for :tacocat:

Trader Joe
11-12-2011, 05:32 PM
^what do you mean "YOU PEOPLE???!!!"

What do YOU mean "YOU PEOPLE?!?!?!"

http://gotchamovies.com/ul/photos/movie/tropic-thunder/2bb1196735df9c2d582de51605ceb35d-sc.jpg

Major Cold
11-12-2011, 06:21 PM
I heard an ESPN reporter say that Penn State should eliminate their football program altogether. That to wipe their hands of Joe Paterno it would have to go to that extreme.

I think that would eliminate PSU completly. Selling out a 100,0000+ stadium brings in some serious cash. The program, like many colleges, helped them to become the academic institution they are today.

cdash
11-12-2011, 06:23 PM
I heard an ESPN reporter say that Penn State should eliminate their football program altogether. That to wipe their hands of Joe Paterno it would have to go to that extreme.

I think that would eliminate PSU completly. Selling out a 100,0000+ stadium brings in some serious cash. The program, like many colleges, helped them to become the academic institution they are today.

That's a little strong. You would be punishing a lot of innocent people by doing something like that. I'm all for punishments, but punish the people responsible. These kids on the team, and most of the current coaches, had nothing to do with any of that crap. Same goes for their fans and alumni. Really unnecessary punishment imo.

Major Cold
11-12-2011, 06:26 PM
^what do you mean "YOU PEOPLE???!!!"

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FoPmd_wc7s8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

cdash
11-12-2011, 06:28 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FoPmd_wc7s8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That is truly incredible. Wow. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

That might be the silliest protest I've ever seen. Proves people will ***** about anything.

Major Cold
11-12-2011, 07:02 PM
It is a joke. You know IMPROVEVERYWHERE. No one should take ginger jokes serious. They have no souls ya know.

cdash
11-12-2011, 07:04 PM
It is a joke. You know IMPROVEVERYWHERE. No one should take ginger jokes serious. They have no souls ya know.

:laugh:

I was gonna say...

BRushWithDeath
11-12-2011, 11:01 PM
I was just told from someone in the IU athletics department, that they've petitioned the Big Ten to remove Ped State from the conference. I have no idea if any other school has done the same or if anything will come of it but I won't be surprised if the conference goes back to eleven for a short time until a replacement is found.

cdash
11-12-2011, 11:15 PM
No way that happens. I just can't see it.

SoupIsGood
11-13-2011, 01:51 AM
I don't really get ginger jokes as jokes. "Hur hur, red hair!!" Er, OK? :confused: I like the lighthearted spirit of them and how they subvert past racist/sexist/whatever jokes, but usually I wind up feeling like someone forgot the funny part. It reminds me of a Family Guy episode I saw the other day where they're mocking the HIMYM "bro code" stuff: "Hold on--are these jokes? Do people in other castles think this is funny?"

Anyway, I think I'm gonna read the business-insider link. Has anyone seen anything else come up regarding the matter?

edit- Well, hrm. Guess I was hoping for something a little more thorough. A browse of google doesn't seem to reveal much progress in this story. This HuffPo article kind of lays it all out neatly and includes the SportsByBrooks tweets: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/10/penn-state-scandal-rumors-sandusky-pimping_n_1086099.html

Guess we'll see what happens.

Trader Joe
11-13-2011, 12:30 PM
No way that happens. I just can't see it.

I could see it. Penn state hasn't even been in the conference for 20 years and if you were going to try and replace them now would be the time with all the shuffling.

idioteque
11-13-2011, 02:45 PM
If the B1G kicks Penn State out or imposes some other program-dehabilitating penalty, the NCAA should let any Penn State player who wishes to transfer do so without losing any eligibility. The current PSU players should not be punished at all, but given that the NCAA treats student athletes like **** it wouldn't surprise me if they are.

Basketball Fan
11-13-2011, 03:10 PM
I was just told from someone in the IU athletics department, that they've petitioned the Big Ten to remove Ped State from the conference. I have no idea if any other school has done the same or if anything will come of it but I won't be surprised if the conference goes back to eleven for a short time until a replacement is found.

I could totally see that. And its a joke we're still called the Big 10 even though there's more than 10 teams but that's another story.

At this point Penn State could be an independent team when all is said and done with all the realignment of the conferences.

Now would be the time to do it.

cdash
11-13-2011, 05:12 PM
I could totally see that. And its a joke we're still called the Big 10 even though there's more than 10 teams but that's another story.

It's a brand name, nothing more, nothing less.

cdash
11-13-2011, 05:14 PM
I'd be shocked to see Penn State removed from the B1G. Really can't see it happening. What would that accomplish? Would the victims and the families of the victims feel any better about that? It would certainly punish Penn State, but with that, again, you are punishing a lot of innocent people. I can see it being casually discussed, but I would be shocked if it were actually implemented.

Trader Joe
11-13-2011, 05:29 PM
I think it comes down to considering how long this negative press is going to hang around that university. It's not going to be gone in a week, a month, or even a year. This is going to take a while to sort through.

travmil
11-13-2011, 05:36 PM
The reason I don't think it will happen is that the conference couldn't just kick them out and effectively contract. They'd have to replace Penn State. If for some reason you thought Notre Dame was finally ready to align with a conference then yeah I could see it happening. But they're not, and it won't.

Slick Pinkham
11-14-2011, 02:06 PM
Joe Paterno's name taken off the new Big Ten championship trophy

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7233492/big-ten-removes-joe-paterno-name-championship-trophy

Trader Joe
11-14-2011, 02:23 PM
Thank God

Slick Pinkham
11-14-2011, 04:39 PM
The SNL "devil" skit was pretty good:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/snls-devil-is-horrified-with-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-rape-scandal/

cdash
11-15-2011, 01:24 AM
Whoa, whoa, false alarm guys. He says he's innocent. Phew! And I thought we had a real scandal on our hands.

Trader Joe
11-15-2011, 01:26 AM
He admitted he probably shouldn't have showed with those boys though, this guy has really turned over a new leaf.

Foul on Smits
11-15-2011, 01:32 AM
He said he touched there legs. But it wasn't sexual.

.. .........
.........
....
....
.

BRushWithDeath
11-15-2011, 09:06 AM
If when asked, "are you sexually attracted to young boys?", you do not emphatically answer "NO!" immediately something is very, very wrong.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out what his lawyer was thinking allowing that interview.

Trader Joe
11-16-2011, 11:32 AM
Rumor is that Paterno's statue will be taken down over Thanksgiving.

Since86
11-16-2011, 11:40 AM
Paterno Passed On Home to His Wife for $1

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — Joe Paterno (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/p/joe_paterno/index.html?inline=nyt-per) transferred full ownership of his house to his wife, Sue, for $1 in July, less than four months before a sexual abuse scandal engulfed his Penn State (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/p/pennsylvania_state_university/index.html?inline=nyt-org) football program and the university.
</NYT_HEADLINE>
Documents filed in Centre County, Pa., show that on July 21, Paterno’s house near campus was turned over to “Suzanne P. Paterno, trustee” for a dollar plus “love and affection.” The couple had previously held joint ownership of the house, which they bought in 1969 for $58,000.

According to documents filed with the county, the house’s fair-market value was listed at $594,484.40. Wick Sollers, a lawyer for Paterno, said in an e-mail that the Paternos had been engaged in a “multiyear estate planning (http://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/planning/estate-planning/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) program,” and the transfer “was simply one element of that plan.” He said it had nothing to do with the scandal.

Paterno, who was fired as the football coach at the university last week, has been judged harshly by many for failing to take more aggressive action when he learned of a suspected sexual assault of a child by one of his former top assistants.

Some legal experts, in trying to gauge the legal exposure of the university and its top officials to lawsuits brought by suspected victims of the assistant, Jerry Sandusky, have theorized that Paterno could be a target of civil actions. On Nov. 5, Sandusky, Penn State’s former defensive coordinator, was charged with 40 counts related to the reported sexual abuse of eight boys over 15 years. Paterno, 84, was among those called to give testimony before a grand jury during the investigation, which began in 2009.

Experts in estate planning and tax law, in interviews, cautioned that it would be hard to determine the Paternos’ motivation simply from the available documents. It appears the family house had been the subject of years of complex and confusing transactions.

Lawrence A. Frolik, a law professor at the University of Pittsburgh who specializes in elder law, said that he had “never heard” of a husband selling his share of a house for $1 to his spouse for tax or government assistance purposes.

“I can’t see any tax advantages,” Frolik said. “If someone told me that, my reaction would be, ‘Are they hoping to shield assets in case if there’s personal liability?’ ” He added, “It sounds like an attempt to avoid personal liability in having assets in his wife’s name.”

Two lawyers examined the available documents in recent days. Neither wanted to be identified because they were not directly involved in the case or the property transaction. One of the experts said it appeared to be an explicit effort to financially shield Joe Paterno. The other regarded the July transaction, at least on its face, as benign.

Last Wednesday, the university’s board of trustees fired Paterno and Graham B. Spanier, the university’s president.

In 2002, Mike McQueary, then a graduate assistant in the football program, told Paterno that he had seen Sandusky with a boy in the football building’s showers. How explicit McQueary was in describing what he saw is in dispute. But according to state prosecutors, Paterno testified under oath that McQueary had told him that he had seen Sandusky doing something of a sexual nature to a roughly 10-year-old boy.
Paterno did not report the incident to the police or encourage McQueary to make

such a report. Instead, he passed along the allegation the next day to the university’s athletic department and one other senior administrator.

On the day he was fired last week, Paterno said he and his wife were praying for the victims, described the events as a tragedy and admitted that he wished he had done more in 2002.

“Coach Paterno wants to tell his side of the story and answer questions, and I am hopeful he will be able to do so down the road,” said Sollers, Paterno’s lawyer.

The lawyer whose name is attached to the latest matter involving the couple’s house is David C. Pohland of Cassidy, Kotjarapoglus & Pohland of Greensburg, Pa. Pohland did not return a telephone message on Tuesday. The maiden name of Sue Paterno, who is 13 years younger than her husband, is Pohland. It was uncertain if there was any relation between her and the lawyer.
<NYT_AUTHOR_ID>
Nate Schweber and Jo Becker contributed reporting.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/16/sports/ncaafootball/in-july-paterno-transferred-ownership-of-home-to-his-wife-for-1.html

Trader Joe
11-16-2011, 11:52 AM
To me, the removal of the statue indicates that people in power know that this is going to get worse before it gets better. I think we've just seen the tip of the iceberg for Penn State and Joe Paterno.

cdash
11-16-2011, 01:36 PM
To me, the removal of the statue indicates that people in power know that this is going to get worse before it gets better. I think we've just seen the tip of the iceberg for Penn State and Joe Paterno.

Nah, I think the worst is out there. In two months (max), this will cease to be a real story anymore.

Since86
11-16-2011, 02:27 PM
McQueary said he went to the police after he stopped the incident in the shower. If he did actually go to the police, then it's gonna get bigger.

presto123
11-16-2011, 03:19 PM
If he was in any way pimping out boys for money it's going to get a lot lot bigger.

Trader Joe
11-16-2011, 04:11 PM
Nah, I think the worst is out there. In two months (max), this will cease to be a real story anymore.

:laugh:

idioteque
11-16-2011, 08:45 PM
If he was in any way pimping out boys for money it's going to get a lot lot bigger.

I saw a rumor about this days ago but haven't heard any follow up, so what prompted you to post this?

presto123
11-16-2011, 10:32 PM
McQueary said he went to the police after he stopped the incident in the shower. If he did actually go to the police, then it's gonna get bigger.


Saw something on ESPN ticker that the Police have said they never heard from McQueary at all. Why do these people keep lying? It's going to come out in the end. Surely not a Police cover up right?

presto123
11-16-2011, 10:34 PM
I saw a rumor about this days ago but haven't heard any follow up, so what prompted you to post this?


Same as you it was rumored days ago that this could be a reality. If it is I'm sure it will probably come out then there will be a lot of people involved in the charges.

Slick Pinkham
11-16-2011, 10:47 PM
it's going to get a lot lot bigger.
http://tshirtgroove.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/thats-what-she-said-tshirt.jpg

Stryder
11-16-2011, 10:51 PM
http://www.pennlive.com/editorials/index.ssf/2011/11/right_to_know_law_psu_shouldnt.html

Anyone see this? In 2007, Spanier lobbied for and got an exemption for Penn State to be exempt from the right to know laws in Pennsylvania. ALL other state-related agencies (other than universities) are subject to it, but not Penn State...me thinks something was up with his specific lobbying? Did he know much more at that time?

Sandman21
11-17-2011, 12:05 AM
If he was in any way pimping out boys for money it's going to get a lot lot bigger.

If thats true, there's going to be tremendous pressure to see PSU shut down their entire athletic program. It'll be another SMU.

As for Sandusky, that creep needs to be laying low. Its bad enough he lives next to a elementary school, but apparently he's telling people he's going to beat the rap? He better hope for his sake he doesn't get thrown into general population when he gets to the big house.

cdash
11-17-2011, 01:16 AM
:laugh:

Laugh all you want. Two months from now, we won't be hearing much about this. The dust will have settled and some other story will be dominating headlines. That's the way the world works these days.

ECKrueger
11-17-2011, 02:39 AM
Laugh all you want. Two months from now, we won't be hearing much about this. The dust will have settled and some other story will be dominating headlines. That's the way the world works these days.

I can't say I disagree with you on this. I don't know that it will be gone in a couple months, but it would not surprise me at all.

Since86
11-17-2011, 10:22 AM
I saw a rumor about this days ago but haven't heard any follow up, so what prompted you to post this?


Same as you it was rumored days ago that this could be a reality. If it is I'm sure it will probably come out then there will be a lot of people involved in the charges.

And it isn't just any rumor. It was started by the guy, Mark Madsen, who first reported the PSU story in April of this year. So he's been the one on top of the entire thing, and four months ahead of everyone else.

Dab
11-17-2011, 11:43 AM
And it isn't just any rumor. It was started by the guy, Mark Madsen, who first reported the PSU story in April of this year. So he's been the one on top of the entire thing, and four months ahead of everyone else.

Mark Madden, actually - former WCW announcer (not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Mark Madsen is the former Stanford basketball player.

BRushWithDeath
11-17-2011, 12:08 PM
Mark Madsen is the former Stanford basketball player.

And one hell of a dancer.

Dab
11-17-2011, 04:29 PM
Nearly two full weeks after the Penn State sex abuse story hit the mainstream media, the scope of the scandal continues to grow. And it's growing not only in terms of number of victims, but in potential duration. The Patriot-News is reporting (http://mobile.pennlive.com/advpenn/db_96886/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=zbVb6VJB) that the timeline of alleged abuse, which originally went back to the 1990s, may go back much farther than that.

. . . Thursday morning brought another startling story from the paper. After watching former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky profess his innocence in a televised interview with NBC's Bob Costas, "several potential victims" contacted lawyers to tell their alleged stories of abuse.

And one of them, the Patriot-News reports, claims the abuse dates back to the 1970s, when Sandusky founded his Second Mile charity in Pennsylvania.

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201111/report-alleged-sandusky-victims-far-back-1970s-contact-lawyers

Trader Joe
11-17-2011, 05:54 PM
Just wait til we find out the charity has been a front for this all along...just wait.

Cactus Jax
11-17-2011, 10:26 PM
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7248184/syracuse-police-investigating-bernie-fine-molesting-boy-1980s

Syracuse, your turn is next it seems.

Trader Joe
11-17-2011, 10:35 PM
Good...Lord.

Cactus Jax
11-18-2011, 02:17 AM
It doesn't have as much going for it as the Penn State scandal does as far as evidence, but if it's true at all then they're going to have to clean house as well.

idioteque
11-18-2011, 02:57 PM
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7248184/syracuse-police-investigating-bernie-fine-molesting-boy-1980s

Syracuse, your turn is next it seems.

What the hell is going on in this country? We inherited many of our democratic principals from ancient Greece, but that doesn't mean we need to mimic their other....characteristics.

Dab
11-18-2011, 03:04 PM
Wow, Boeheim has flat out said the accuser is lying. Interesting.

Kstat
11-18-2011, 03:16 PM
Well, if 4 witnesses would not corroborate a molestation allegation against your good friend, you'd be screaming liar from the rooftops too...

cdash
11-18-2011, 03:32 PM
I'm officially worn out with this crap. I don't want to see it, hear it, talk about it, or anything anymore. There is enough depressing **** in the world.

presto123
11-18-2011, 03:42 PM
I'm officially worn out with this crap. I don't want to see it, hear it, talk about it, or anything anymore. There is enough depressing **** in the world.


If any of these scandals get more real victims to come forward and let healing start it is a good thing. We can't let people in positions of power and trust keep perpetrating these horrible crimes. Sounds like too many times this stuff has been swept under the rug or had a blind eye turned to it.

presto123
11-18-2011, 03:46 PM
Wow, Boeheim has flat out said the accuser is lying. Interesting.


Of coarse he did. What else is he going to say because if it is true Boeheim's career is over.

Ransom
11-19-2011, 01:12 AM
To add to the surreal turns: Joe Paterno has lung cancer (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Joe-Paterno-former-Penn-State-coach-has-lung-cancer-son-says-111811?ocid=ansfox11).

Basketball Fan
11-19-2011, 12:24 PM
If any of these scandals get more real victims to come forward and let healing start it is a good thing. We can't let people in positions of power and trust keep perpetrating these horrible crimes. Sounds like too many times this stuff has been swept under the rug or had a blind eye turned to it.

I agree but I also get cdash's point which is why I've stayed away from this story for the past few days I mean it was ugly to begin with its not exactly going to get better why read about it. There seems to be one tragedy after another with sports these past few days if its not pedophilia its plane crashes etc.

A good sports story would be a nice reprieve.

However I also think these scandals unfortunately bring out people who take advantage of a situation for their own personal gain too and do a real disservice to the real victims out there.

And to answer the other post about Paterno having lung cancer I'm not surprised he looked ill I mean he's almost 85 its a matter of time. Would also explain why he gave his wife the house for $1 so she's taken care of.

Since86
11-21-2011, 11:53 AM
Would also explain why he gave his wife the house for $1 so she's taken care of.

If he passed, the house would have been hers anyways.

Trader Joe
11-21-2011, 12:55 PM
If he passed, the house would have been hers anyways.

Estate taxes and their rules are extremely lenient this year. A lot of people are taking advantage of it and passing on assets. That is likely what happened here IMO. Estate planning by Paterno if the cancer took a turn for the worse.

Slick Pinkham
11-23-2011, 04:10 PM
Not surprising, but still disgusting: one of the newest victims to come forward is a Sandusky family member, presumably one of his 6 adopted kids.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7274012/penn-state-nittany-lions-scandal-one-new-allegations-jerry-sandusky-came-family-member-attorney-says

What a total scum of the Earth.

Sandman21
11-23-2011, 04:58 PM
He gonna have fun in prison.