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FireTheCoach
08-04-2011, 04:40 AM
http://www.fox59.com/sports/ba-sp-nba-bar-association-0704-20110803,0,3815952.story


NBA Players Association executive director Billy Hunter said Wednesday that if he "had to bet on it," he would wager that the entire 2011-12 season would be wiped out by the lockout.

"We're $800 million apart per year," Hunter told about 200 people during a seminar at a conference in Baltimore of the National Bar Association, an organization of predominantly African-American lawyers and judges.

The union chief said NBA commissioner David Stern was being limited in negotiations by hard-line owners.

"The circumstances have changed among his constituency," said Hunter, the executive director since 1996. "In the last six or seven years, there is a new group of owners to come in who paid a premium for their franchises, and what they're doing is kind of holding his feet to the fire."

Because negotiators are dug in, Hunter said "something has to happen that both of us can use as leverage to save face."
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Asked by a conference attendee whether there would be a 2011-12 season, he replied: "If I had to bet on it at this moment, I would probably say no."

The NBA had no immediate response after being apprised of Hunter's comments, spokesman Tim Frank said.

The lockout began July 1. The NBA believes the economic model needs to change because, it says, 22 of its 30 teams are unprofitable. Among other changes, owners want to significantly reduce the players' share of basketball revenue from 57 percent.

"We agreed to go from 57 to 54," Hunter said.

Hunter was chatty and informal in his comments, encouraging audience members to ask difficult questions and saying he would be as candid as he could. The seminar's moderator said he would discourage questions about Hunter's private negotiating strategy. But Hunter commented on a variety of subjects, including a report denied by the NBA that Stern makes as much as $23 million a year.

"I think it's somewhat ironic. It's inconsistent to me" if Stern makes that much, Hunter said. While the NBA won't disclose executives' salaries, the $23 million has been disputed by the league and in media reports.

During the seminar, Hunter sat on a couch in a downtown hotel ballroom next to NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith. Last month, NFL players settled a 41/2-month labor dispute with owners.

"Billy is where I was two years ago," Smith said. The NFL labor battle "was a very long and extremely public fight. Our young men demonstrated a tremendous amount of resolve," Smith said.

Hunter said NBA players were also united. Of players' signing deals with overseas teams, he said: "I don't encourage them to go. We're not going to stand in their way.'

On Wednesday, Jordan Farmar of the New Jersey Nets became the latest player to head for the European leagues, joining former Nets teammates Deron Williams and Sasha Vujacic, according to multiple reports.

The NBA on Tuesday filed claims against the players association in federal court and with the National Relations Labor Relations Board. The league says the union has not been negotiating in good faith.

"We just don't have as much time as the NFL did," Stern told the Associated Press. "If the union sort of continued to drag its feet and then pursued its preferred decertification strategy, and if the same 41/2 months went by, we'd be well into our season."

The league said its latest proposal would keep average salaries of at least $5 million.

Hunter said owners initially demanded that "we give them back a billion dollars a year," and then it came down to $900 million.

"A month and a half ago, we gave them a proposal that we would give them back $100 million per year," the union chief said. "The gap is far between us."

jeff.barker@baltsun.com

vnzla81
08-04-2011, 06:29 AM
"We agreed to go from 57 to 54," Hunter said.



That's it? :rolleyes:

Unclebuck
08-04-2011, 08:01 AM
No one knows if the season will be cancelled it is only August 4th. It is all negotiations at this point.

Let me add, if you are a big fan of the Pacers and or the NBA you would be wise to not live and die with every comment that comes out during the process of getting a new CBA. Each side will say many dumb things over the next few months. So pay attention at your own peril.

Speed
08-04-2011, 08:38 AM
I am hoping for a mediator to become involved, the sooner the better.

Typically a mediator approaches things with the attitude... 'Okay, we know what you both want, but what can you live with'

Problem is it seems the owners are going for the kill shot and 'what they can live with' may not be very much. We'll see, UBs right, its all posturing/speculation at this point to say there's no season.

duke dynamite
08-04-2011, 08:46 AM
It happens.

PacerGuy
08-04-2011, 08:53 AM
Best case - 50 game season. No way there is a full slate. Once games start getting missed, the courts start getting involved, & Euro seasons start & more & more players go over seas, there will be some uneasiness & motivation (from both sides).

Speed
08-04-2011, 08:58 AM
I wonder what the truth is, if I was Stern or Hunter, I would be spewing exactly the same rhetoric, if I believed it or not.

Roaming Gnome
08-04-2011, 01:40 PM
Wake me up when these b*st**ds really start negotiating in November... :pissed:

BillS
08-04-2011, 01:56 PM
Wake me up when these b*st**ds really start negotiating in November... :pissed:

Wake up, Gnome... Gnome... wake up.

The good news is that there's going to be negotiations.

The bad news is that it's 2020...

rock747
08-04-2011, 02:04 PM
Could the players organize their own league? Would that be illegal?

Unclebuck
08-04-2011, 02:26 PM
Could the players organize their own league? Would that be illegal?


Not sure about the legality, but where would or could they play.

rock747
08-04-2011, 02:51 PM
Not sure about the legality, but where would or could they play.

Not sure where they would play, but if the entire season were to be missed, the prospect of having NBA stars team up and play in the U.S. may be an enticing and lucrative idea.

Kid Minneapolis
08-04-2011, 03:16 PM
Whatever they're finaggling over surely doesn't equal the loss of an entire NBA season. Seems like everyone involved is cutting off the nose to spite the face.

Constellations
08-04-2011, 03:20 PM
I'm already over this.

DocHolliday
08-04-2011, 04:30 PM
I don't get why they're going to wait until games are in jeopardy of being canceled before putting in serious work to come to an agreement. Look at the NFL, they waited until their HOF game was canceled and training camp was next on the chopping block before really making progress.

Cactus Jax
08-04-2011, 05:01 PM
The players have no clue about how things are right now for the owners, this isn't the NFL where all the owners are making millions upon millions of dollars, most teams owed money last year.

Saying 54% is fair is insulting, 3% is petty though I'm guessing they don't want to say what their real number is. 50% would be at least a decent negotiating number, but even the NFL players don't make 50 now, it's going to be somewhere between 43-48% when all is set and done most likely, so that's how far off the players are.

Losing a season for most of the owners (or at least a fair bit of them) is actually less damaging then playing a season as is again.

Scot Pollard
08-04-2011, 05:39 PM
There's no reason for these ******** to not be optimistic about there being a season or even games missed. The fact that it's only August 4th.

Maybe in a month, you can start thinking about what's to come soon, but keep an open mind.

It's only best considering we're 3-4 months from the season.

owl
08-04-2011, 06:06 PM
Time for a new league.

Scot Pollard
08-04-2011, 06:41 PM
This is foolish. Billy Hunter should STFU and work! What kind of professional would actually comment on a question like that?

Just compromise already and get it over with. That's what's going to happen. That's what always happens. Eventually, both sides are going to give in because no is going to win.

If the players are unhappy, they need to keep in mind the better chance they're team can WIN. I thought that's all what matters to these guys.

Although the big issue is that the 22/30 teams probably would welcome that, but the big market winners want their money still because they have it all.

At least our guys are dedicated to the game and would of course be mad about losing money, but at the same time have an even better chance to grab some decent players and contend in the near future.

It's annoying how guys like Derek Fisher who are going to be retiring soon anyway, are flipping a **** about losing some million of their gigantic salaries.

Take a small step to reality now.

speakout4
08-04-2011, 07:31 PM
This is going to be much uglier than the NFL because there are NBA owners who are losing money which probably is not the case in the NFL..

Just look at all the empty seats in various arenas and it's obvious that the NBA does not have the same profit margins the NFL has.

Who knows at this point how much of a season there will be but there are 2 months left and that's not long given all the crap that has to be waded through.

idioteque
08-04-2011, 08:10 PM
The gap between the NFL and NBA is about to increase even more.

CableKC
08-04-2011, 10:17 PM
This is pure posturing if you ask me. I betcha that Stern or some Owner comes out and says that they have been bending over backwards and the Players are just unreasonable. This is like the whole debt ceiling debate all over again :suicide4:

ndcoltsnpacers
08-05-2011, 12:26 AM
Missing this entire upcoming season would be such a bad blow for the Pacers. You thought the past few seasons were bad, give people a year and a half to forget the playoff run coupled with an ugly lockout and see who comes out then. Really really sucks.

King Phoenix
08-05-2011, 02:04 AM
Haven't posted in a while.....

But question... if there's no season not assuming it won't be how will that affect contracts will it be like they lost a year and everyone that has one year left on their contract be a fa, or will contracts roll back a year?

How did it work in the last lockout?

ilive4sports
08-05-2011, 03:00 AM
Good thing the Eagles signed a ton of talent to keep me more than entertained. See y'all next year!

CableKC
08-05-2011, 03:47 AM
Haven't posted in a while.....

But question... if there's no season not assuming it won't be how will that affect contracts will it be like they lost a year and everyone that has one year left on their contract be a fa, or will contracts roll back a year?

How did it work in the last lockout?
I thought I read somewhere that the contracts will just roll back a year. So Players that have contracts that expire in 2012-2013, they will just be pushed back a season.

Frostwolf
08-05-2011, 06:07 AM
why doesn't the nba reduce the number of games per season? i can only see good things for the owners, players and fans if that were implemented.

PacerDude
08-05-2011, 07:36 AM
why doesn't the nba reduce the number of games per season? i can only see good things for the owners, players and fans if that were implemented.This whole thing is about money. Fewer games = less money.

Haywoode Workman
08-06-2011, 06:27 AM
http://www.fox59.com/sports/ba-sp-nba-bar-association-0704-20110803,0,3815952.story


Baltimore of the National Bar Association, an organization of predominantly African-American lawyers and judges.


jeff.barker@baltsun.com

what the hell was the point of this line?

King Tuts Tomb
08-06-2011, 07:39 AM
what the hell was the point of this line?

I'm assuming it's a black professional organization. Before the integration of professional fields, minorities had to form their own political associations because they weren't allowed entry into white organizations. A lot of them still exist today.

owl
08-07-2011, 11:41 PM
Here is an interesting article from Hoopshype. One man's view on when the season probably will start. One of the more optimistic views.

http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/heisler/2011/08/03/still-not-time-to-panic/

Stryder
08-08-2011, 07:34 PM
what the hell was the point of this line?

A description of the conference organization. Why?

LetsTalkPacers
08-08-2011, 08:27 PM
Here is an interesting article from Hoopshype. One man's view on when the season probably will start. One of the more optimistic views.

http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/heisler/2011/08/03/still-not-time-to-panic/
though i read hoopshype myself. i dont take much stock in what i read there

Heisenberg
08-08-2011, 08:52 PM
Read today an "anonymous owner" says there's a handful of owners that want player endorsement money to be included in the "Basketball Related Income" because without the NBA the players wouldn't get any endorsements. Good luck with that.

xBulletproof
08-08-2011, 09:14 PM
Read today an "anonymous owner" says there's a handful of owners that want player endorsement money to be included in the "Basketball Related Income" because without the NBA the players wouldn't get any endorsements. Good luck with that.

That doesn't make any sense. The higher the BRI number, the more the owners will owe the players percentage wise. Why would you want to raise that number?

Right?

Heisenberg
08-08-2011, 10:29 PM
That doesn't make any sense. The higher the BRI number, the more the owners will owe the players percentage wise. Why would you want to raise that number?

Right?
Whatever the percentage is the players would be paying into the BRI money they don't pay any into right now. It's not going to happen anyway, I don't even know if something like that'd be legal.

Here's a link (http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/david_aldridge/08/08/morning-tip-usa-basketball-update/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1).


The source said owners frequently speak of "being tired of making these guys rich" and are even contemplating asking for more, such as including income the players receive from their commercial endorsements and sponsorship money into the BRI pot -- the theory being the players wouldn't become famous and able to make such deals if not for the NBA infrastructure that puts them on television and other media.