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View Full Version : Roy Hibbert Overrated?



PaulGeorge
07-29-2011, 12:18 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-110729/center-ratings


Simon Chun, via Twitter: Kendrick Perkins. Playing in Boston overrated him, then the trade and the subsequent Celtics "collapse" helped further the legend of a center who has averaged just 6.4 points and 6.1 rebounds a game.

Jordan Heimer, ClipperBlog: Roy Hibbert. First he was good, then bad, then good enough down the stretch that Pacers president Larry Bird recently called him untradeable. But for a guy who stands 7-foot-2, Hibbert doesn't bring much to the table when his shot isn't falling. He's an average defender and a below-average rebounder -- hardly ideal for a guy being treated like a franchise center.

Spencer Wellesley Percy, Queen City Hoops: For a guy valued as highly as Kendrick Perkins is, and someone brought in to be OKC's big man of the future, I think this one is easy. Perkins has zero offensive ability and is more interested in complaining to the officials, rather than playing hard and being the physical force everyone wants to give him credit for being.

Jonathan Santiago, Cowbell Kingdom: Tyson Chandler. He's the perfect complementary piece on a great team, but he'll probably be overpaid when a new CBA is agreed upon because of this offseason's paltry free-agent crop.

John Converse Townsend, 48 Minutes of Hell: Andrew Bynum. Put down your pitchforks and torches, Lakers fans; there is no need to burn down the Internets. Bynum is one of the better talents in the NBA when healthy. But frankly, he's bench-ridden far too often to be considered an elite talent -- Bynum has missed 160 games over his six-year career.

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Can't argue with his reasoning but Roy is still "developing" so we think. Is it safe to say that if Roy doesn't make a big impact this year that he will never develop into what we hope?

BringJackBack
07-29-2011, 12:19 PM
I definitely think the most overrated center in the league is Tyson Chandler.

Pingu
07-29-2011, 12:29 PM
I definitely think the most overrated center in the league is Tyson Chandler.

You're kidding, right? He's no Dwight Howard, but he's still very good. His contributions just don't show up that much in his stat line.

Sandman21
07-29-2011, 12:37 PM
I say that guy is jaded by years of following the hands-down crappiest team in the NBA.

Mr_Smith
07-29-2011, 12:37 PM
I definitely think the most overrated center in the league is Tyson Chandler.

I don't think you watched him in the finals when making a statement like that.

BringJackBack
07-29-2011, 12:47 PM
You're kidding, right? He's no Dwight Howard, but he's still very good. His contributions just don't show up that much in his stat line.

This is the same guy, who last season, was traded for Emeka Okafor's terrible contract. And other than this one healthy year, he's been incredibly injury prone. He's going to end up getting a 4 year/50 million contract or something of the sort, when all in all, he's just a more athletic version of Jeff Foster. His offense is/was coming from Jason Kidd/Chris Paul.


I don't think you watched him in the finals when making a statement like that.

Is he pretty good, yeah. He's a rebounder/defender. But he doesn't deserve all of the praise that he gets.

Ownagedood
07-29-2011, 12:52 PM
I love Hibbert and don't want us to trade him.. But I would agree that when Hibbert's shot isnt falling, hes practically worthless. Because it really effects his confidence. He is a terrible rebounder for a 7'2 guy and his defense isn't great but i feel like that part may be a part of his game that is underrated and will be improving as well as his conditioning gets better and hopefully his toughness will improve as well as he gets more experienced.

Day-V
07-29-2011, 12:53 PM
Booooooooooooo.

Pingu
07-29-2011, 12:57 PM
Sure, Chandler's not a good offensive player, he's injury prone, and might get overpaid, although it remains to be seen what the new CBA will be like.

But does Dallas win it all if it's Roy instead of Chandler in the middle for them?

BringJackBack
07-29-2011, 01:07 PM
Sure, Chandler's not a good offensive player, he's injury prone, and might get overpaid, although it remains to be seen what the new CBA will be like.

But does Dallas win it all if it's Roy instead of Chandler in the middle for them?

I think so, but that's just me. They still have Haywood backing him up, if they need the interior presence.

Gamble1
07-29-2011, 01:07 PM
Sure, Chandler's not a good offensive player, he's injury prone, and might get overpaid, although it remains to be seen what the new CBA will be like.

But does Dallas win it all if it's Roy instead of Chandler in the middle for them?
I would put Perkins ahead of Chandler as far as being overrated.

I think Roy is more untradeable do to him being on his rookie contract. Anything you get in returen is going to cost a lot more and be a marginal upgrade.

Really?
07-29-2011, 01:09 PM
Yes, Very...

Unclebuck
07-29-2011, 01:28 PM
I usally reject the notion that someone is overrated or underrated, because I do not know how the players are rated.

Roy is the starting center for a team that won 38 games and lost 4-1 in the first round of the playoffs.

ballism
07-29-2011, 01:34 PM
If Bird calls him untradeable and means it, that's overrating.

Scot Pollard
07-29-2011, 01:47 PM
He's not mentally with it and I don't know how he can fix that.

What I noticed when he plays like a dominant center, we can beat anyone and we have.

We could be a 10+ .500 team if he played well consistently.

Maybe Vogel, who really wants to make Roy the biggest piece to the offense, it'll make him consistent and better and make us better.

What does that ****er Jordan Heimer from ClipperBlog know? Idiot probably doesn't even watch the Pacers and just looks at stats because he definitely brings a lot to the table.

He's still young and getting better. He had a terrible coach in his career in O'Brien and now he's the center piece in Vogel's offense.

notque
07-29-2011, 02:12 PM
Hibbert's defense has gotten much better. His offense has improved. everything about him has improved.

So what is there to worry about, that his improvement stops completely next year? He's still not a bad center if he were stuck where he's at, he'd just be disappointing.

Heisenberg
07-29-2011, 02:34 PM
I've honestly never heard Bird say a player on our team is untradeable. I've heard him say stuff like NO ONE is untradeable.

OakMoses
07-29-2011, 02:56 PM
I usally reject the notion that someone is overrated or underrated, because I do not know how the players are rated.

Roy is the starting center for a team that won 38 games and lost 4-1 in the first round of the playoffs.

You should add that he was, arguably, that team's worst player in the playoffs.

Heisenberg
07-29-2011, 02:57 PM
You should add that he was, arguably, that team's worst player in the playoffs.
After Dunleavy

Hicks
07-29-2011, 03:09 PM
I love Hibbert and don't want us to trade him.. But I would agree that when Hibbert's shot isnt falling, hes practically worthless. Because it really effects his confidence. He is a terrible rebounder for a 7'2 guy and his defense isn't great but i feel like that part may be a part of his game that is underrated and will be improving as well as his conditioning gets better and hopefully his toughness will improve as well as he gets more experienced.

He may be 7'2", but that doesn't mean he's as nimble as a lot of the 6'10" guys are. It's very rare and special to be that tall AND still be able to move at a decent speed (think Hakeem). It's not that surprising that he's not going to be chasing down rebounds. If he's in range, his height and length can go a long way, but he'll never rebound the way a guy like Jeff Foster or Tyler Hansbrough has/does.

Constellations
07-29-2011, 03:11 PM
Ugh...off season...

D-BONE
07-29-2011, 03:37 PM
I don't think you watched him in the finals when making a statement like that.

No way they win the finals without him. They had a C mismatch in their favor. They had to exploit it to win and TC succeeded in doing so in his physical, blue collar, hustle way.

vnzla81
07-29-2011, 03:38 PM
Not as overrated as Magnum Rolle, OJ Mayo and Mike Suckleavy "team defense"

D-BONE
07-29-2011, 03:40 PM
Sure, Chandler's not a good offensive player, he's injury prone, and might get overpaid, although it remains to be seen what the new CBA will be like.

But does Dallas win it all if it's Roy instead of Chandler in the middle for them?

I say no b/c who the hell would have rebounded, scrapped, and otherwise provided a physical presence inside? Roy might have been able to contribute some scoring, but Dallas only needs that peripherally from that position. Roy doesn't have the strength/athletic ability to put with his height that TC used to his advantage to swing the inside toughness/rebounding to the Mavs.

Constellations
07-29-2011, 03:43 PM
Not as overrated as Magnum Rolle, OJ Mayo and Mike Suckleavy "team defense"

Really?

D-BONE
07-29-2011, 03:46 PM
I don't think Roy's overrated at this point. I think the jury is heavily still out on him. I never expect him to be a truly dominant, physical style C.

If he can continue to improve offensively - of which a big piece is just being consistent- and maintain his shotblocking and passing realtive to (hopefully) a little more PT, then I'll be happy and I think he'll be seen as an above average C.

So if the above happens AND he can manage to average 7-8 boards per game, then we're really talking. If none of that happens, inconsistency and mentals dog him, etc., then he won't be overrated. He'll just be viewed as mediocre to not that good.

BornReady
07-29-2011, 04:32 PM
I don't think Hibbert is overrated at all. Everybody was aware when he played well or poorly, and reacted accordingly.

crunk-juice
07-29-2011, 04:46 PM
"when his shot isn't falling"

so.... always?

90'sNBARocked
07-29-2011, 05:25 PM
Wouldnt the use of the term overrated indicate that people are rating very high?

I was unaware there was a "Roy Hibbert Bandwagon" from a national perspective

Merz
07-29-2011, 05:39 PM
Wouldnt the use of the term overrated indicate that people are rating very high?

I was unaware there was a "Roy Hibbert Bandwagon" from a national perspective

Exactly, who rates him high enough to be overrated?

I don't think Bird considers him untouchable as a whole, just untouchable in the type of deals they were looking at (ex. Mayo) unless the got a solid starting big man in return...which most teams don't deal away themselves (especially ones on rookie deals).

Eleazar
07-29-2011, 05:59 PM
I think the notion that he is overrated doesn't come from how good people think he is right now, but how good people think he could be in a year or two.

RLeWorm
07-29-2011, 06:29 PM
In this present day there aren't real centers no more. All of them shoot threes and all of this non sense. I wouldn't want Bird to trade Hibbert unless a superstar was coming.

LetsTalkPacers
07-29-2011, 06:30 PM
Im not saying Hibbert is a lock down defender, but I have noticed a lot less players come into the paint when he's on the floor.

Lance George
07-29-2011, 07:07 PM
I'll call Roy overrated when people start calling him amazing and concocting wild conspiracy theories to explain why he's never been named an All-Star.

As it stands now, I'd say he's rated exactly where he should be: A highly skilled center with a ton of potential, but who has yet to put it all together.

Eleazar
07-30-2011, 01:00 AM
Im not saying Hibbert is a lock down defender, but I have noticed a lot less players come into the paint when he's on the floor.

I agree, he isn't a great defender, but he isn't a bad defender either. I would say he is above average.

mattie
07-30-2011, 01:04 AM
He may be 7'2", but that doesn't mean he's as nimble as a lot of the 6'10" guys are. It's very rare and special to be that tall AND still be able to move at a decent speed (think Hakeem). It's not that surprising that he's not going to be chasing down rebounds. If he's in range, his height and length can go a long way, but he'll never rebound the way a guy like Jeff Foster or Tyler Hansbrough has/does.

Side note: Roy's rebounding per 36 is higher than anyone on the team other than Foster (who was third in the league I believe, off the top of my head)

Gremz
07-30-2011, 03:42 AM
Hadn't noticed that the league had take as much interest in him to make him overrated. He's doing well for a player on a team in turmoil/poor system for a player like himself/coaching change.

He's not groundbreaking, but I don't have a problem with how he's growing.

To expect the world of him would be too much. Great character guy, and wants to be better though.

BlueNGold
07-30-2011, 06:59 AM
He's not overrated as much as speculation about his potential has increased. Originally, he was underrated at the time of the draft. Now people are seeing that he does have potential and there is lots of speculation...and for good reason.

As for his defense, is a lot better than the previous year. As a second year player he was 11th in the entire league for blocks...and defense is supposed to be his weakness. His offensive game with more maturity could be spectacular. That's a far, far cry from what people thought on draft night.

So, is he overrated? Sure, by some people....but not most people. That's the nature of the beast when a player has potential.

BringJackBack
07-30-2011, 07:11 AM
I don't even know how I found this but I just did. Haha:

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XQOMjSb6ciQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Heisenberg
07-30-2011, 09:39 AM
Remember when we were running at a crazy pace, well not so much running but jacking shots, when we drafted Roy? And how drafting this big plodding monster outta Georgetown made no sense? It's not like he's David Robinson now but the work he put in to just be able to get minutes (and then make a tiny mistake and get yanked) was pretty impressive.

BlueNGold
07-30-2011, 11:12 AM
Remember when we were running at a crazy pace, well not so much running but jacking shots, when we drafted Roy? And how drafting this big plodding monster outta Georgetown made no sense? It's not like he's David Robinson now but the work he put in to just be able to get minutes (and then make a tiny mistake and get yanked) was pretty impressive.

That's right. Jim's offense is the opposite of what a Rik Smits type player needs. Not saying Roy is Rik...but there are worse comparisons. Imagine Rik trying to play Jim ball.

Roy was in a worse case situation entering the league IMO. Mentally he didn't need Jim. On the court was bad as well. I hope we see a new man if the NBA ever comes back.

ksuttonjr76
07-30-2011, 05:25 PM
Meh...I can't complain about a 17th pick that has been steady improving every year since coming into the league.

EDIT: Seeing who was picked after him was he REALLY a bad pick given that we unloaded JO's contract?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2008.html

ballism
07-30-2011, 06:27 PM
EDIT: Seeing who was picked after him was he REALLY a bad pick given that we unloaded JO's contract?


Seeing who was picked after him - sure he wasn't a great pick. But you should never judge a no.17 pick that way. He was a steal at 17, even if Ibaka and possibly McGee, George Hill, Batum, Asik or DeAndre Jordan will end up as bigger steals.

joew8302
07-31-2011, 08:31 PM
Hibbert's defense has gotten much better. His offense has improved. everything about him has improved.

So what is there to worry about, that his improvement stops completely next year? He's still not a bad center if he were stuck where he's at, he'd just be disappointing.

Interesting so many people "like" this. I got absolutely killed last month by some when I asserted that Roy may have/will be in the process of peaking and what you see is what you get.

graphic-er
07-31-2011, 09:52 PM
I just wish big roy would act like he is tallest player on the court and dunk the ball when he is 3 feet from the from the rim.

BlueNGold
07-31-2011, 10:07 PM
I just wish big roy would act like he is tallest player on the court and dunk the ball when he is 3 feet from the from the rim.

I like big Roy and he does have a lot of offensive skills...but that's not his game. He may be 7'2" but there are guys guarding him who are 3 inches shorter but can jump 6 or more inches higher. That's why he's not constantly on the rim...

Eleazar
07-31-2011, 11:36 PM
Roy's strength is fundamentals, not athleticism. That will go a long way towards a long career, but he first needs to get good enough to make it worth it. Luckily for us those who don't rely on athleticism to thrive and who are hard workers tend to continue to improve longer than those who rely mostly on superior athleticism.

daschysta
08-01-2011, 03:05 AM
Interesting so many people "like" this. I got absolutely killed last month by some when I asserted that Roy may have/will be in the process of peaking and what you see is what you get.


You can't see the difference between what he said and what you said, which was that Roy will probably never average more than 14 and 6 or so? Difference between saying if he is coming close to peaking it isn't horrible and claiming he cannot improve anymore.

Speed
08-01-2011, 08:16 AM
Not sure if he's rated wrong or right, but he is headed the right direction, imo.

I liked his goals, someday, that he discussed on the interview with Mark Montieth.

Allstar
10 rebounds a game
part of all defense team
towards the top in the league in Blocked shots

Everyone of those things are great goals for him, I think.

Justin Tyme
08-01-2011, 01:12 PM
Hibbert, IMO, is never going to be much more than an average Center. His problem to me is mental which makes him weak. Until he overcomes that, if he ever can, he's just an average Center who can disappear faster in a game than money in a shopaholics hand. I'm not sure he's got as much potential as some seem to feel he has.

adamscb
08-01-2011, 06:23 PM
roy's confidence issues were because of him who shall not be named, same thing can be said with brandon. now that him who shall not be named is gone, hibbert can keep improving. adding brian shaw will help big roy with any confidence issues.

ballism
08-01-2011, 06:46 PM
adding brian shaw will help big roy with any confidence issues.

I must have missed some brian shaw stories. Can you elaborate?

adamscb
08-01-2011, 06:51 PM
I must have missed some brian shaw stories. Can you elaborate?

not any stories in particular, i hear he's a great guy and is good with building relationships with players.

BlueNGold
08-01-2011, 09:43 PM
Hibbert, IMO, is never going to be much more than an average Center. His problem to me is mental which makes him weak. Until he overcomes that, if he ever can, he's just an average Center who can disappear faster in a game than money in a shopaholics hand. I'm not sure he's got as much potential as some seem to feel he has.

Based on what I've seen from others who suffer similar to Roy, once he solves his problem and starts headed in the right direction, you will see a steadily growing confidence. A person who is much stronger mentally because he's gone through a very tough process. If you have not seen someone close to you struggle like that...and see the growth process...you just might not get this.

Hicks
08-01-2011, 10:32 PM
Whenever it comes along ( :( ), I'm pretty curious to see how Roy does with (yet again) a new and improved body (obviously this time it's not about shedding fat and slimming down, but gaining muscle and strength) and a full year with Coach Vogel. I think he'll be noticeably better and/or more consistent.

joew8302
08-02-2011, 11:30 AM
You can't see the difference between what he said and what you said, which was that Roy will probably never average more than 14 and 6 or so? Difference between saying if he is coming close to peaking it isn't horrible and claiming he cannot improve anymore.

That is not what I said at all.

aaronb
08-02-2011, 12:14 PM
I usally reject the notion that someone is overrated or underrated, because I do not know how the players are rated.

Roy is the starting center for a team that won 38 games and lost 4-1 in the first round of the playoffs.


37 games

bulldog
08-02-2011, 02:15 PM
Is he pretty good, yeah. He's a rebounder/defender. But he doesn't deserve all of the praise that he gets.

So you admit he's a good rebounder and defender? Then the argument is over. Rebounding and defense are two of the most important skills in basketball. They are certainly two of the skills most closely correlated with winning.

johndozark
08-02-2011, 04:01 PM
I looked at the per 36 minutes stats of Roy Hibbert alongside five others centers mentioned in the ESPN article that sparked this discussion: Marcin Gortat, Brook Lopez, Marc Gasol, JaVale McGee, Robin Lopez. Each has strengths and weaknesses. Roy holds his own pretty well in this group. He is number 1 in assists, number 2 in points, blocks, and free throw percentage, and number 3 in total rebounds. His statistical weaknesses are in field goal percentage, and having too many fouls and turnovers.
I believe his field goal percentage and turnovers will improve with a consistent and appropriate role in the offense for which he is well prepared. I think that fouls may remain something of a problem. This just points out that we need a good backup for him who can also put in some minutes at PF.

In case you want to know, M. Gasol was his closest competitor in assists, only Brook Lopez was ahead of him in points, only McGee was ahead of him in blocks, while Gortat and McGee led him in rebounds.

It is worth noting that, of these six, the top three in assists were the worst three in turnovers.

BringJackBack
08-02-2011, 09:05 PM
So you admit he's a good rebounder and defender? Then the argument is over. Rebounding and defense are two of the most important skills in basketball. They are certainly two of the skills most closely correlated with winning.

No it is not over. He's a healthy version of Jeff Foster. Not worthy of great praise.

BillS
08-03-2011, 11:06 AM
No it is not over. He's a healthy version of Jeff Foster. Not worthy of great praise.

Foster is the opposite of most players. During a season when he is bringing it on boards and defense, people say "Wow, I forgot how strong he was in those areas." During the off-season, people go back to believing he's just sort of a "meh" defender and rebounder.

I think he doesn't get the respect he deserves. A healthy version of Jeff Foster on rebounds and defense is a heck of an asset for most teams. The differentiator is if there's offense as well.