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View Full Version : I have a question regarding the Seattle SuperSonics



Scot Pollard
07-28-2011, 08:11 PM
Okay, I was reading that the Seattle Mariners are going to have a Sonic Night at their stadium.

I began thinking, they'll eventually get their SuperSonics back someday (good chance the New Orleans Hornets who can't find an owner close by and them being the only team really in danger of moving other than the Kings who would be Anaheim bound anyway). With Steve Ballmer in Seattle very interested in bringing a team back to Seattle, it's a strong possibility it's the Hornets who haven't really even gotten much support in New Orleans to begin with. A lot of people there don't even know who they are. Even though they have one of the best stars in the league on their team and they've been decent for the past few years.

Anyway, suppose the Hornets do move to Seattle and they become the Seattle SuperSonics, do they retrieve the original Sonics' history even though the Thunder are technically the original Sonics? Would the Thunder then branch off and start their own franchise anew? Also, I have a question (probably Gnome can answer this for me because he went there), but do the Thunder have any retired numbers actually hanging from the rafters?

The Hornets also have some history and retired numbers. Would they be dropped if the franchise became the SuperSonics?

An example would when the Cleveland Browns became the Baltimore Ravens and didn't have a team for a few years then they got a team back in Cleveland and called them the Browns and continued on with the Browns legacy.

Just curious and hey, we really don't really have anything else to discuss. ;)

Day-V
07-28-2011, 08:32 PM
It's been awhile since I saw SonicsGate, but I thought they said that the city of Seattle maintains the Colors, "Sonics" name, and history.

Scot Pollard
07-28-2011, 08:44 PM
It's been awhile since I saw SonicsGate, but I thought they said that the city of Seattle maintains the Colors, "Sonics" name, and history.

I believe you are correct and if Seattle gets a team again, it'll be the SuperSonics, green and gold colors, Squatch the mascot, the history, etc.

So I think it's up to Clay Bennett and the Thunder to officially give up the Sonic tie-ins.

So I think the Thunder would branch off.

The bigger question is, would it seem as if the Hornets franchise disappeared/folded if they became the Sonics and took on that legacy/history?

Sandman21
07-28-2011, 09:11 PM
The bigger question is, would it seem as if the Hornets franchise disappeared/folded if they became the Sonics and took on that legacy/history?
Jordan is supposedly looking at changing the name of the Bobkittens.......

Brad8888
07-28-2011, 09:18 PM
I would bet that the windows of any new arena in Seattle for a Steve Ballmer owned franchise would constantly need updating, and the arena would be the site of many crashes of unknown origin. Unless, of course, it is located in a cloud somehow.

Scot Pollard
07-28-2011, 09:21 PM
Another thing, none of this can get done without some sort of arena project in place. That's why the original Sonics moved away in the first place.

Seattle's been working hard to get something in place. Whether it's renovating Key Arena or demolishing it and building a new one in its place.

I've also mentioned a while back on here perhaps using the Tacoma Dome, which is pretty far away from Key Arena as an interim home arena for the Sonics and Storm while they work on a new arena because I can't imagine how the Storm are still playing in there or even allowed.

I know looking up some things about the Tacoma Dome, it is definitely not NBA ready. It seems like a high school gymnasium, but I guess it would be fine for just a year or 2 and enough people would be happy to have the Sonics back to attend.

Scot Pollard
07-28-2011, 09:28 PM
Jordan is supposedly looking at changing the name of the Bobkittens.......

Yeah I heard that.

So if it was to happen, the Charlotte Hornets franchise would return and take that history from the new Sonics. Then it would seem as if the Bobcats would disappear.

They didn't do a thing since expanding in 2004 anyway so they wouldn't be missed. I also remember reading on here from someone that the people in Charlotte really want the Hornets back.

Also, I'm not sure these days the NBA would allow a franchise who isn't moving to change their name. The Bobcats might have an advantage considering the Charlotte Hornets were once a fairly well known team and people would like the change and the Bobcats haven't done a thing and have sucked since they were established.

Sandman21
07-28-2011, 09:37 PM
I would bet that the windows of any new arena in Seattle for a Steve Ballmer owned franchise would constantly need updating, and the arena would be the site of many crashes of unknown origin. Unless, of course, it is located in a cloud somehow.

And the window screens would be blue!:laugh:

Day-V
07-28-2011, 09:55 PM
Also, I'm not sure these days the NBA would allow a franchise who isn't moving to change their name.

Oh, I think they'd be all for it. That just means folks will have to go out and spend money on new memorabilia. Plus, they'd start selling (if they haven't already) Old School 90's Hornets jerseys, jackets, hats, etc.

Roaming Gnome
07-28-2011, 10:14 PM
Also, I'm not sure these days the NBA would allow a franchise who isn't moving to change their name.

http://www.tealdragon.net/scott/images/bullet74.gif

As for the Sonics, they get to keep the color scheme and name, but all banners and championship trophies are property of Clay Bennett's franchise. I believe the city wanted these items too in the settlement with the name of the franchise, but Bennett wasn't going to part with them.

Scot Pollard
07-28-2011, 10:29 PM
http://www.tealdragon.net/scott/images/bullet74.gif

As for the Sonics, they get to keep the color scheme and name, but all banners and championship trophies are property of Clay Bennett's franchise. I believe the city wanted these items too in the settlement with the name of the franchise, but Bennett wasn't going to part with them.

About the Bullets/Wizards you are right. The NBA did allow that name change so it's definitely possible for Jordan and the Bobcats. Especially if the Charlotte Hornets are brought back. It would also be cool for the Wizards to become the Bullets again, but with their new, revamped uniforms and new monument logo as the primary.

I also have a question for you since you've been to their arena. Do the Thunder actually have retired Sonic numbers/championship banners hanging from their rafters?

The more I keep reading into this, the more I can understand all hatred towards Clay Bennett. Yes the Sonics moved due to their arena, but this guy ran like to wind to OKC. Seemed to me that he didn't want to have anything to do with Seattle anymore so I would've thought he would've left everything open to them. Colors, name, Squatch, awards, numbers, etc. Probably the right thing to do considering the Thunder don't resemble the Sonics in any way.

Anyway, things will get interesting for the Hornets and Steve Ballmer's interest to not waste a rare opportunity be able to move an NBA team back to Seattle.

Merz
07-28-2011, 10:30 PM
As for the Sonics, they get to keep the color scheme and name, but all banners and championship trophies are property of Clay Bennett's franchise. I believe the city wanted these items too in the settlement with the name of the franchise, but Bennett wasn't going to part with them.

I think that is so stupid. Do the people in Oklahoma City really care about the Sonics championship in '79. As a Indianapolis Colts fan I could care less about Baltimore championships.

It is especially stupid because the Thunder ditched the identity of the Sonics, so it's not like the Atlanta Hawks keeping the championship they won in St. Louis.

I understand that there are people who root for a franchise no matter what city they play in who want those championships...so whatever...I can't even argue 100% for my own point...but that is just how I feel.

Scot Pollard
07-28-2011, 10:33 PM
I think that is so stupid. Do the people in Oklahoma City really care about the Sonics championship in '79. As a Indianapolis Colts fan I could care less about Baltimore championships.

It is especially stupid because the Thunder ditched the identity of the Sonics, so it's not like the Atlanta Hawks keeping the championship they won in St. Louis.

I understand that there are people who root for a franchise no matter what city they play in who want those championships...so whatever...I can't even argue 100% for my own point...but that is just how I feel.

Couldn't agree more.

I feel like Bennett is just being a real dick about it. You never know though. Maybe if the Hornets move there, he would officially branch off and give everything to the new owner and franchise.

I can understand say if they became the Oklahoma City SuperSonics then keep everything, but Bennett appeared to want to branch off and get a new identity.

smj887
07-28-2011, 10:37 PM
Anyway, suppose the Hornets do move to Seattle and they become the Seattle SuperSonics, do they retrieve the original Sonics' history even though the Thunder are technically the original Sonics? Would the Thunder then branch off and start their own franchise anew?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3545175


Bennett will retain the rights to the SuperSonics' name and logos, but has agreed not to use them after moving to Oklahoma City. If a new NBA team arrives in Seattle, Bennett would turn over the rights to the new team's owner at no cost, as long as it meets with NBA approval.

The league hasn't yet announced a new name for the Oklahoma City franchise, which has applied for trademarks for six: Thunder, Bison, Energy, Wind, Marshalls and Barons.

That team will be allowed to use the SuperSonics' statistical history, although a future Seattle NBA franchise could also stake a claim to share those records.

Some aspects of the settlement still aren't finished.

Sounds like the Thunder currently maintain the Sonics' history (at least in terms of licensing,I don't know to what degree they actually reference it), but once a new Seattle team pops up that team will take the Sonics' history back and there would just be a "defunct period" in the team's history. Even though it says OKC would still be entitled to a share of that history, I can't imagine them using it for any purpose or really needing it. At least in my mind, I think of the Baltimore Colts and Indianapolis Colts as 2 separate entities. I imagine OKC fans would feel the same about the distinction between the Sonics and the Thunder and the organization's marketing and presentation would reflect this.

Also, the beginning of the article does mention that the banners and trophies stayed in a museum in Seattle, while Bennet only gets rights to borrow them for events, or something along those lines.

Scot Pollard
07-28-2011, 10:48 PM
It's really interesting.

It seems like everything regarding the Sonics is up to Clay Bennett, but like I mentioned before, the original Cleveland Browns who became the Baltimore Ravens seemed to have given up everything when moving to Baltimore which gave the new Browns the rights to everything to original franchise had.

It might be different because the new Browns were an expansion team, this will probably wind up being the Hornets who go to Seattle. However, I really don't think Steve Ballmer really wants to keep that identity and will leave it to New Orleans.

My point being the new Browns were able to get back everything from the original team which went to Baltimore.

So, it's definitely possible Bennett would decide to give up all the Sonic tie-ins if they were to be brought back.

I really don't get why he would still want to be a part of them anymore considering he ran like the wind out of Seattle and to OKC.

Sandman21
07-28-2011, 11:04 PM
It's really interesting.

It seems like everything regarding the Sonics is up to Clay Bennett, but like I mentioned before, the original Cleveland Browns who became the Baltimore Ravens seemed to have given up everything when moving to Baltimore which gave the new Browns the rights to everything to original franchise had.

My point being the new Browns were able to get back everything from the original team which went to Baltimore.

The reason that Cleveland was able to get the Browns' name back for their expansion team was part of the legal settlement that they made with Modell when they sued his rear end when he announced the move. Look into the specifics on that move and Baltimore isn't looking like so much of an NFL victim because of the Colts move anymore.

Scot Pollard
07-28-2011, 11:18 PM
The reason that Cleveland was able to get the Browns' name back for their expansion team was part of the legal settlement that they made with Modell when they sued his rear end when he announced the move. Look into the specifics on that move and Baltimore isn't looking like so much of an NFL victim because of the Colts move anymore.

It appears Seattle has the SuperSonics' name and colors to be able to give the new team that name, but all the rest are up to Bennett and the new owner to work something out either face to face or take Bennett to court because there's no reason he should still hold any part of the Sonics when he completely did away from them and Seattle.

Quite frankly, the Thunder fans and organization could probably give a **** about having the Sonics legacy/history. They have a great, dedicated fanbase and a good team to begin fresh.

Time to branch off. Especially once the vacancy of an Seattle NBA team is filled. It would almost be like he's owning 2 franchises.

It's all about Clay Bennett being a prick and why people can't stand him.

Eleazar
07-28-2011, 11:42 PM
To me the name and location of the franchise doesn't really matter. If they moved and changed their name they are still the same franchise just in a different location and name. I honestly don't like it when teams keep a name when they move, but I don't think it should be removed from their official history. They didn't start from scratch as an expansion team, they are just in a different location and different name.

Roaming Gnome
07-29-2011, 01:18 AM
I also have a question for you since you've been to their arena. Do the Thunder actually have retired Sonic numbers/championship banners hanging from their rafters?


There isn't one mention of the franchises past anywhere INSIDE the arena. No banners or numbers hanging that I could see.

Scot Pollard
07-29-2011, 04:21 PM
I would be very surprised if Bennett doesn't voluntarily return all of his Sonic tie-ins to Seattle once the Sonics returned.

Ballmer would probably leave all the Hornets tie-ins with New Orleans and they can do what they want with it. Perhaps give it to Jordan and the Bobcats.

PaulGeorge
07-29-2011, 07:22 PM
When baltimore got the Ravens they wanted the Colts rights so they could continue what they had lost. i think irsay told them they couldnt afford the rights to buy the name back. hah suck it baltimore. Also the reason the bullets were able to change their name was because of violence going on at the time and the name just wasn't family friendly i suppose. the Wizards is a horrible name still and sounds like a wnba team jus like the Thunder. Best thing the wizards have done is change their colors back.

Scot Pollard
07-29-2011, 08:25 PM
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nba/2008035531_soni06.html


Even though he's gone, Clay Bennett will forever be linked to the Sonics.

His settlement this week with the city put the Sonics' name, colors and logo on ice, but Bennett still will take what's being called the franchise's "shared history" to Oklahoma City.

The two sides are still negotiating what that means, with a meeting scheduled Aug. 1 to finalize the agreement.

The settlement allows Bennett to replicate and use copies of Sonics memorabilia, including the 1979 NBA trophy, championship banners and the team's six retired jerseys.

Bennett described the memorabilia as "assets," which he intends to use to market and promote the Oklahoma City team. And while he retains possession of the Sonics name, logo and colors, he agreed not to use them.

Additionally, he owns the Sonics' original championship trophy, banners and retired jerseys and is permitted to periodically display them in Oklahoma City. For most of the year, the items will be kept in Seattle at the Museum of History and Industry. Bennett agreed to return their ownership to Seattle should an NBA franchise emerge here.

City attorney Tom Carr said the city and Bennett's attorneys had rushed to complete the settlement on Wednesday, a few hours before District Court Judge Marsha Pechman would have delivered her ruling in the trial between the city and the Sonics.

"We couldn't work out all of the details of the settlement in the time we had, so we had to make sure we covered the basic points and had ourselves protected," Carr said.

For now, the two parties agree to share the history of the team that played 41 years in Seattle. The Oklahoma City team will refer to Sonics records, statistics and history as its own.

According to the agreement, if Seattle is granted an expansion team in the next five years, that franchise will share the Sonics' history with the Oklahoma City team.

If Seattle lands a team through relocation of an existing franchise, most likely the Oklahoma City team will retain sole possession of the Sonics history.

Carr is considering several proposals, including a scenario in which the Oklahoma City team's history begins in 2006 when Bennett bought the franchise for $350 million from Howard Schultz.



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"It was a condition of the deal for us that we keep the history, the name, the logo and the memorabilia," Carr said. "That was a demand from Day 1. To that extent, the paragraph was put in at our insistence. It got changed a lot in the end."

During negotiations, both parties learned the NBA owns the names and intellectual properties of teams and licenses them to owners. The league prohibits owners from giving away their team's names to anyone other than another owner.

The NBA also didn't want a team playing in Oklahoma City without a past history.

"I'm not happy with any of this," Carr said. "I would prefer that the Sonics stay here, but in terms of a compromise, I think it gets us what we wanted. We had a big fight over leaving the memorabilia. They didn't want to do that.

"We had to insist that was a deal-breaker for us to the extent that it keeps the name alive and the enthusiasm alive. That's what's going to get us a team in the future."

When asked what happens to Sonics mascot Squatch, Carr chuckled.

"Nobody thought about preserving Squatch," he said. "I don't know that they're going to take him with them. We might be able to negotiate to keep that. I'll put that on the list."


The bold part is what I believed was going to happen.

Once a team returns to Seattle and goes by SuperSonics, they get everything and the Thunder would branch off.

So it'll be just like the Browns/Ravens settlement.