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Young
10-21-2004, 08:18 AM
http://www.indystar.com/articles/7/188084-1507-179.html

I think its a pretty good article. I like to reading that he has improved his game tremendously.

I wish there was a place for him in the rotation but I don't see one. With Artest, Bender, Croshere, JO, Jackson, Miller, and that other Jones I think that all those players will hurt his chance at minuates.

Ragnar
10-21-2004, 09:20 AM
Man I hope he hang on to this kid and give him some playing time. I think he is the future backup to S.Jax rather than F. Jones. He is a better defnender, rebounder and his shot is sweet.

If F. Jones has a future here it is as the backup pg.

ChicagoJ
10-21-2004, 09:52 AM
You're just trying to come up with a way to not watch AJ for the next four years. :D

Unclebuck
10-21-2004, 10:11 AM
Ragnar: Did you say that James Jones defense is better tha Fred Jones defense? Granted, I have not seen enough of James' defense to know that much about it. But Fred's defense is excellent. Overall I consider him the second best one-on-one defender on the Pacers team. Although you could make the case that Fred and Jeff are tied for that honor. I hope James is close to that level.

Ragnar
10-21-2004, 10:26 AM
I have not seen enough to say that without quivocation I guess. Its just that every time he is in (ableit for short time frames) his D was outstanding.

Do you remember the game in Miami where James got his first NBA points? While he was in there he was disrupting the passing and getting rebounds. He has long arms and was able to disrupt the shooter because of that. His timing on the passing lanes is what impressed me the most. It was Foster like.

He did that again in this last game. I really think he is capable of being right behind Ron on the defensive end, even better than Foster.

Plus his shot just looks perfect. Watch him next time he is in. I think you will be impressed with the little things he does that do not show up in the stats.

Dont get me wrong F. Jones is a good defender but he lacks size to guard the bigger sg's in the league. J. Jones is big enough to defend the T. Mac's and quick enough to defend the guys like Hamilton. He will need some time and work to be exactly what we need but with Jax on the team now we have the time.

Mainly with Jones I am concerned with his lack of size. He is a 2 in a 1's body.

Hicks
10-21-2004, 10:41 AM
Ragnar, I don't understand how you think James is quck enough to defend guys like Hamilton. Fred isn't even fast enough, and last I saw, Fred was quicker than James, or faster...

Can you explain that?

Roy Munson
10-21-2004, 10:41 AM
Man I hope he hang on to this kid and give him some playing time. I think he is the future backup to S.Jax rather than F. Jones. He is a better defnender, rebounder and his shot is sweet.

If F. Jones has a future here it is as the backup pg.

A better rebounder and defender than F Jones? You've got to be kidding!!

Ragnar
10-21-2004, 10:58 AM
All I can say is watch him next time he is in the game.

I did not say he was faster than Freddie. I said he was quick enough to defend the Hamiltonís of the league. I am not saying that he would be the best defender on Hamilton; I am saying that he would do an adequate job. You have to take the whole package into account. James is bigger, has longer arms, has a better shot and while he may not be as quick as Freddie he is quick enough.

I think if you gave both of them the same number of minutes J. Jones would out rebound Freddie big time. Maybe I am just seeing something that is not there but his D is a lot like Fosters. He plays the passing lanes and just generally gets into the shorts of the other player. The first thing I noticed about him in the Miami game was his D.

BigDawg44
10-21-2004, 11:08 AM
and just generally gets into the shorts of the other player.


so does Artest, especially Pierce's

Hicks
10-21-2004, 11:23 AM
Ragnar, I'm focusing on the quick enough for Hamilton comment. Fred's quicker than James, and Fred couldn't keep up with him. James would have a tougher time going through the screens.

Now, in a 1-on-1 situation, I think James would be better, because he's too big for Rip to post up, and he has long, dare I say "Prince-like" arms, that could give him more trouble, whereas Fred doesn't have that kind of length to use, and would be easier to drive by.

Anthem
10-21-2004, 11:40 AM
Rip never drove by Freddy... he rubbed him off screens sometimes and did some damage from the post, but I don't think he ever took him off the dribble.

Ragnar
10-21-2004, 11:40 AM
Ok however you want to state it. I am saying that James is good enough to defend Hamilton while Jax is one the bench. (mind you I am talking about a post Reggie Pacers)

I am not saying that James is the end all defender. I am just saying that overall I think he will do better than Freddie because of his size. The fact that he has a knack for the ball and an excelent shot are part of that as well.

If Freddie were 6'7" it would be irrelevent But he is not.

ChicagoJ
10-21-2004, 11:46 AM
I can't see James Jones ever playing SG, especially not at the defensive end.

I know he played PF in college, and was regarded as a pretty good post defender for his size. I think in the NBA he's a prototype SF and he's willing to 'get after it' on D, but I wouldn't want to put him on the perimeter for long stretches of defense.

OTOH, I know Fred -right now- can use his althletic ability to make up for having a PG's body. But he's just a sprained ankle away from being a defensive liability against bigger SGs (pretty much all of them) so that's a concern, too.

If Stephen Jackson works out (and early returns are encouraging), and Artest stays focused (one never knows...) then both Jones boys are redundant. Unless Fred develops into a combo guard.

Its also possible that AJ could develop into a better combo guard than Fred - he's not very good at initiating the offense but he can defend both guard positions and hit his shots so I'm not opposed to the idea of him being the primary backup at both guard spots (post Reggie, I mean) just to get to a three-guard rotation.

Grammar police

Suaveness
10-21-2004, 12:45 PM
There sure is a lot of FJ complaining going on. JJ plays SF, so I don't think you can compare the two of them. He would be a better rebounder because he plays SF rather than SG, and he is well, bigger. I like both of these kids, and I think that they should both play this year. It's not like Bender is going to be playing much at all. Giving JJ and FJ some time in my opinion will be well worth it.

Roy Munson
10-21-2004, 01:21 PM
All I can say is watch him next time he is in the game.

I did not say he was faster than Freddie. I said he was quick enough to defend the Hamiltonís of the league. I am not saying that he would be the best defender on Hamilton; I am saying that he would do an adequate job. You have to take the whole package into account. James is bigger, has longer arms, has a better shot and while he may not be as quick as Freddie he is quick enough.

I think if you gave both of them the same number of minutes J. Jones would out rebound Freddie big time. Maybe I am just seeing something that is not there but his D is a lot like Fosters. He plays the passing lanes and just generally gets into the shorts of the other player. The first thing I noticed about him in the Miami game was his D.


As soon as a shot goes up, Freddy is getting back on defense. Carlisle NEVER has him going to the boards because it is a priority to slow down the other team's break. If Freddy was allowed, or if Carlisle chose to have him attack the boards he would put up very big rebounding numbers for a SG. It's just a matter of the position he plays and the coaches philosophy about getting back on D.

I think Freddy could outrebound JJ.

Ragnar
10-21-2004, 06:07 PM
He could indeed. I dont know what the future holds. If I did I dont know that I would have been able to live through the late 90's:laugh:

I am just telling you what I see. Everyone told me I was crazy right about this time last year when I was saying Tins was the best pg on the team and that he would get his starting job back. :cool: And when I said Pollard would be a total waste that year.

This year I am saying that if James Jones gets any sort of playing time he will move ahead of Freddie. His shot is better, he is taller and he will be a better defender on the taller guards in the league.

We will need Freddie when we face Miami. Other than Miami I think Jimmy fits better.

Edit---> We can go big and mobile with J.Jones in the rotation.

beast23
10-21-2004, 06:46 PM
From the SG position, I doubt there would be much difference in their rebounding totals.

But, JJ will NOT be playing SG. His position is the wing, where he can stretch the defense and still be able to hold his own defensively against other SFs.

To state that JJ is better than Freddie defensively is like comparing apples and oranges. Freddie is a backcourt player and is not assigned to guard SFs.

JJ is a wing player and is not assigned to guard SGs.

Freddie is SIGNIFICANTLY quicker than JJ. JJ may be able to successfully guard SG/SF swingmen, but probably could not successfully guard many pure SGs.

Freddie's biggest advantage is that he is able to go over or under screens. JJ, on the other hand, would probably be forced to go under most screens in an attempt to cut off his man, leaving the man wide open for a jumper behind the screen. And that's where Hamilton would absolutely kill us.

Kegboy
10-21-2004, 09:56 PM
Do you remember the game in Miami where James got his first NBA points?

Oh, for the love of God, not more talk about the fabled Miami game!!! How in the hell is it that a game where he played TWO minutes, missed TWO field goals, and had a grand total of TWO free throws at the end of a blowout becomes his Christmas game?

Give it a couple years, and people will start acting like he was Darvin Ham back in '96-97. Oh, sorry Jay, I mean "the season we don't talk about."

howboutanicebrew_er
10-21-2004, 11:33 PM
James Jones has an amazingly pure shot. I don't get to many games, but one of them I saw last year I watched JJ warm up before the game. He hit at least 7 straight from the corner. Unfortunately, once in the game, he air balled everything. But, he does have the shot--if he can get the confidence.

So far, in summer league and pre-season, he's playing better, and from that article, he's feeling more comfortable on the court. He will be a great weapon soon, maybe not this season, but, in the coming years. Once FJ and JJ can get more PT, those two will form a great combo, along with JO and eventually David Harrison, it looks good to me.

In terms of D, FJ is great. JJ, well, I haven't seen him play enough to determine it. But, if JJ can be a solid defender, whether or not he is as good as FJ-just not a weak defender-he'll be force-eventually.

MSA2CF
10-21-2004, 11:37 PM
"Everyone told me I was crazy right about this time last year when I was saying Tins was the best pg on the team and that he would get his starting job back."

Well, not everyone.