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View Full Version : Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club



Swish
07-07-2011, 10:56 AM
http://www.nesn.com/2011/07/report-deron-williams-signs-with-turkish-club-besiktas-for-200000-per-month.html


Deron Williams has found a team.

The NBA star has reportedly agreed to terms with Turkish club Besiktas in principle, according to TalkBasket.net, which credits NTV Spor.

By joining Besiktas, he has the opportunity to leave the club to return Stateside if and when the NBA lockout is lifted next season.

Williams, who would be receiving $16.5 million this upcoming season, according to JazzHoops.net, will reportedly receive $200,000 per month.

Hicks
07-07-2011, 10:57 AM
Wow. Didn't think anyone like him would go over seas. Especially not this quickly.

Naturally, it makes perfect sense that he'll be free to come back to the Nets as soon as the season begins.

Since86
07-07-2011, 11:00 AM
Kinda weird how the NBPA is holding out, because they don't want rollbacks on contracts yet DWill would only make 2.4mil for the entire year, assuming they'd pay him out of season.

He's taking a $14mil paycut for one season.

ballism
07-07-2011, 11:03 AM
I'll believe it when it's signed. Non-Euroleague team, 2.4 mil. Come on, can't he do a little better.

naptownmenace
07-07-2011, 11:09 AM
I'll believe it when it's signed. Non-Euroleague team, 2.4 mil. Come on, can't he do a little better.

It's for how many games though? 24 at the most? That's easy money.

If the lockout shortens the season and he misses game checks, this will off-set that. Plus when the lockout ends, he can just go back to the NBA and collect more money.

Speed
07-07-2011, 11:12 AM
From what I've read players under contract need clearance from USA basketball since FIBA requires such from the home country. I have almost no understanding of this whole deal, but I've read its not just as simple as signing a contract you need clearance and the FIBA has to accept it.

If this does happen, I wonder what kind of pressure this starts to put on the league to make things happen, if at all. For instance if I'm Russian Mark Cuban, I'm more ready to get this settled so my best player isn't playing in something that may get him hurt. Just spitballing on this.

wintermute
07-07-2011, 11:18 AM
Marc Stein also reporting it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6745426



New Jersey Nets guard Deron Williams is planning to play in Turkey in the fall if the NBA lockout has not yet been settled, according to sources with knowledge of Williams' thinking.

Sources on Thursday confirmed a report from the Turkey-based sports outlet NTV Spor that Williams has struck an agreement in principal to play for Besiktas, which is the club that briefly employed Allen Iverson last season.

Sources say Williams will not be required to report to the Turkish club before the end of August or early September and that his deal with them will include an immediate out that allows him to return to the NBA as soon as the work stoppage ends.

Williams has two years left on his contract with the Nets but is expected to opt out the final season, valued at nearly $18 million, to become a free agent in the summer of 2012.

Players under contract like Williams would typically need a letter clearance from FIBA -- the sport's world governing body -- to play anywhere else.

But the NBA Players Association has privately maintained for months that it intends to legally challenge any attempt by the NBA or FIBA to block a player such as Williams from playing elsewhere while the NBA has imposed a work stoppage.

"If they try to stop him," one source said of Williams, "the union will fight it."

The bigger risk for Williams is injury-related, especially after he was plagued by a wrist injury throughout the second half of last season after the Nets acquired him from Utah on Feb. 24.

The guaranteed money Williams is owed by the Nets would not be protected in the event of injury overseas, meaning that either Williams or Besiktas will have to make insurance arrangements that protect him against long-term injury.

NTV Spor also reported Thursday that Atlanta Hawks center Zaza Pachulia plans to join Williams with Besiktas as well.


Wow, I didn't expect this. I would have thought insurance alone would eat up most of that salary.

ballism
07-07-2011, 11:25 AM
It's for how many games though? 24 at the most? That's easy money.

If the lockout shortens the season and he misses game checks, this will off-set that. Plus when the lockout ends, he can just go back to the NBA and collect more money.

It's 50-70 games if we are talking full season. Depends on how deep they go in Eurocup, Turkish playoffs etc.

My point is that it's less than way lesser players are getting.
And if it's not about salary, then there are 50 much better options.

Trader Joe
07-07-2011, 11:28 AM
What a moron.

graphic-er
07-07-2011, 11:36 AM
LOL, watch him mess up his knee playing in a 3rd world country.

Marlin
07-07-2011, 11:44 AM
I'll believe it when it's signed. Non-Euroleague team, 2.4 mil. Come on, can't he do a little better.

I think it's credible just because Bsiktas doesn't play the EL.
Those teams who do usually don't like to take such a gamble that their star player, team cornerstone, can run back to the US midseason.


LOL, watch him mess up his knee playing in a 3rd world country.

What? :eek:

graphic-er
07-07-2011, 11:46 AM
Is Deron Williams married? Maybe he is going over there to meet the an exotic beauty to bring back as his wife. Judging by the recent Hardee's commerical Turkey has a lot of talent.

Major Cold
07-07-2011, 12:02 PM
Is Deron Williams married? Maybe he is going over there to meet the an exotic beauty to bring back as his wife. Judging by the recent Hardee's commerical Turkey has a lot of talent.


Did you get hacked or something?

Speed
07-07-2011, 12:03 PM
I wonder if the Union would consider insuring guys, in this scenario, to amp up pressure on the teams as well as challenge the legality of FIBA disallowing it. I think if players start doing this, it puts pressure on teams, big time to get an agreement, even though there are finite number of spots available.

Trader Joe
07-07-2011, 12:08 PM
Did you get hacked or something?

You think this is odd behavior from him?

Kegboy
07-07-2011, 12:10 PM
What a moron.

I don't think so. He's on the last year of his deal, and I'm sure he'll get that insured if he's injured. And that's assuming there will be any games played.

If he wants to do this, better to sign now when there's still money to be had. Not many teams will be able to afford signing an NBA player, even at a fraction of their regular salary.

ballism
07-07-2011, 12:14 PM
Those teams who do usually don't like to take such a gamble that their star player, team cornerstone, can run back to the US midseason.


Hmm I'm not even sure where to begin.

What about top 10 players in the world, Euroleague teams wouldn't risk on those either?

And what are you implying, only EuroLeague teams are looking to win, all the other teams are just show offs?

And exactly what does a 'risk' mean, btw? Not like there's a cap limit. Get a Deron Williams AND keep Omar Cook or Nick Calathes, I can't see the big problem. Especially when you are paying those guys more than D-Williams is asking, anyway.

yoadknux
07-07-2011, 12:15 PM
If a Pacer comes to Maccabi I swear I'm gonna drive to the airport and greet him :dance:

Kuq_e_Zi91
07-07-2011, 12:22 PM
LOL, watch him mess up his knee playing in a 3rd world country.

Wow. There are "3rd world" environments in every country. Yes, even in the mighty U.S.A. I live in DC, and if you make a couple wrong turns from the Capitol at night... you're in another world.

I wish him the best. Hopefully he actually plays for them, instead of just collecting some extra money on the side.

Marlin
07-07-2011, 12:30 PM
Hmm I'm not even sure where to begin.

What about top 10 players in the world, Euroleague teams wouldn't risk on those either?
Top Euroleague teams? No, they wouldn't. I'm sure you know Barcelona, Real or Pana payrolls, and adding yet another great player for half a season isn't worth the price. They know they can get to the top 16 either way, and in their own championship it's not about being great till Jauary.

When Bryant was rumored to be interested in Europe, back in the spring, in case of lockout, the team he was accosted to was Milan. Not exactly one of the top teams, budget and history notwithstanding. And no it didn't have to do with Jelly Bean being there back in the days.


And what are you implying, only EuroLeague teams are looking to win, all the other teams are just show offs?
Where did I state or imply that?
I just said that adding a player like that to a lower level team is less of a gamble. And a greater impact, both on and off the floor.


And exactly what does a 'risk' mean, btw? Not like there's a cap limit. Get a Deron Williams AND keep Omar Cook or Nick Calathes, I can't see the big problem. Especially when you are paying those guys more than D-Williams is asking, anyway.
Risk is just the guy bolting for the States midseason.
As you said, the Cooks, the Rodriguezs, earn more than a Williams. Now you tell me, what do top EL teams have to gain by signing Deron for half a season, basically adding big money to the payroll without being sure that when it counts that player will be there making a difference?

You know very well that no cap limit doesn't mean spend whatever money you can imagine. Especially now. Especially in Spain (with banks less willing to back major sports teams) and Greece.

The only team I'm doubting my position for is CSKA, and it's for a different reason.

vnzla81
07-07-2011, 12:48 PM
LOL, watch him mess up his knee playing in a 3rd world country.

:shakehead .....

graphic-er
07-07-2011, 12:49 PM
You think this is odd behavior from him?

Geez...
i was just messin around.

ballism
07-07-2011, 12:50 PM
I just think that's a complety unrealistic position. "Euroleague teams have less spare money than B level teams, they value first half of the season less than teams in lesser tournaments, and D-Will in Euroleague isn't enough of an upgrade to be worth the trouble compared to Besiktas."
Ok i suppose, sounds ridiculous to me, but then again, 20 years ago i used to believe in santa claus.

graphic-er
07-07-2011, 12:58 PM
Wow. There are "3rd world" environments in every country. Yes, even in the mighty U.S.A. I live in DC, and if you make a couple wrong turns from the Capitol at night... you're in another world.

I wish him the best. Hopefully he actually plays for them, instead of just collecting some extra money on the side.

Really? 3rd World in D.C? I'm pretty sure they have in door plumbing in DC, along with reliable electric power grids, and various other infrastructure amenities.

What you are describing is just blighted urban areas resulting from people who can't get out their own way. Thats not 3rd world.

able
07-07-2011, 12:59 PM
What most of your forget it that even short term contracts with "star" players are very interesting, if anything to advertise the product.

Barcelona already has a great name, however when Madrid was mentioned someone here asked whether it was the football club.

Some very wealthy people are involved and what is nice to "gracefully" sign a short contract with Kobe for a couple of million and get world-wide attention to your team(which often bares the name of the sponsor) ?

Most of these will be "if" contracts, but nonetheless show how far the players are prepared to go

able
07-07-2011, 01:05 PM
Really? 3rd World in D.C? I'm pretty sure they have in door plumbing in DC, along with reliable electric power grids, and various other infrastructure amenities.

What you are describing is just blighted urban areas resulting from people who can't get out their own way. Thats not 3rd world.

The more of your answers in this thread I read, the more I am convinced you would not be able to point at a world map and point out Turkey.

Hicks
07-07-2011, 01:05 PM
Really? 3rd World in D.C? I'm pretty sure they have in door plumbing in DC, along with reliable electric power grids, and various other infrastructure amenities.

What you are describing is just blighted urban areas resulting from people who can't get out their own way. Thats not 3rd world.

As opposed to Turkey?

Let's also not forget we gave several Euro/International posters here, by the way.....

vnzla81
07-07-2011, 01:09 PM
The funny part in all this 3rd world country argument is that if Indiana was a country by itself, it would be a 3rd world country :twocents:

Hicks
07-07-2011, 01:19 PM
The funny part in all this 3rd world country argument is that if Indiana was a country by itself, it would be a 3rd world country :twocents:

If you say so....

spazzxb
07-07-2011, 01:22 PM
Wow. There are "3rd world" environments in every country. Yes, even in the mighty U.S.A. I live in DC, and if you make a couple wrong turns from the Capitol at night... you're in another world.

I wish him the best. Hopefully he actually plays for them, instead of just collecting some extra money on the side.



I had a friend from Brazil with me when we made a wrong turn in Gary, IN. He was the one saying it felt like a third world country.

Marlin
07-07-2011, 01:22 PM
I just think that's a complety unrealistic position. Euroleague teams have less spare money than Besiktas, they value first half of the season less than Besiktas, and D-Will in Euroleague (for half a season) isn't enough of an upgrade to be worth the trouble compared to Besiktas.
Ok i suppose, sounds ridiculous to me, but then again, 20 years ago i used to believe in santa claus.
Sort of.
But well, that's what I think. Personal opinion, as odd as it sounds. I've heard experts on tv (euroleague special for the groups formation) agree with what I stated, for what is worth, so we all will probably receive something good from santa this year :p
As soon as a great name signs with a top euroleague club, I'll tip my hat to you, no problem. Until then, we'll probably disagree. :)

Trader Joe
07-07-2011, 01:24 PM
The funny part in all this 3rd world country argument is that if Indiana was a country by itself, it would be a 3rd world country :twocents:

This isn't true either. Jeez people think for a second before you speak.

Mackey_Rose
07-07-2011, 01:31 PM
The funny part in all this 3rd world country argument is that if Indiana was a country by itself, it would be a 3rd world country :twocents:

Everything about this post is entirely preposterous.

graphic-er
07-07-2011, 01:37 PM
The more of your answers in this thread I read, the more I am convinced you would not be able to point at a world map and point out Turkey.

You would be wrong, I know where Turkey is on the Map.

Look the comparison of DC to Turkey does not work. No Matter how run down DC is, there is generally no where in DC that lacks basic westernized infrastructure, from Water, plumbing, power, education.

Now Turkey on the other hand. I'm not sure I would even classify it as 3rd world anymore as it is developing nicely, and is a member the E8. Certainly an emerging economy. But we can say that there are large swathes of regions in Turkey where basic infrastructure is absent or barely adequate.

Just because some neighborhoods are poor and crumbling does not mean they even come close to "3rd World" conditions. You know they aint crapping in outhouses and the trash man still comes by every Thursday in D.C.

vnzla81
07-07-2011, 01:45 PM
If you say so....


This isn't true either. Jeez people think for a second before you speak.


Everything about this post is entirely preposterous.

There was an article not long ago comparing Indiana to 3rd world countries and yes if Indiana was a country it would be a 3rd world country, by the way 3rd world country doesn't mean that the country is in ruins or anything like that.

able
07-07-2011, 01:46 PM
You would be wrong, I know where Turkey is on the Map.

Look the comparison of DC to Turkey does not work. No Matter how run down DC is, there is generally no where in DC that lacks basic westernized infrastructure, from Water, plumbing, power, education.

Now Turkey on the other hand. I'm not sure I would even classify it as 3rd world anymore as it is developing nicely, and is a member the E8. Certainly an emerging economy. But we can say that there are large swathes of regions in Turkey where basic infrastructure is absent or barely adequate.

Just because some neighborhoods are poor and crumbling does not mean they even come close to "3rd World" conditions. You know they aint crapping in outhouses and the trash man still comes by every Thursday in D.C.

You have proven your total ignorance on the subject of Turkey, you are therefore forgiven.

Let me rest with the fact that Costantinople was a metropole before America was discovered.
In Istanbul alone about 15 million people will disagree with you

PR07
07-07-2011, 01:57 PM
It makes sense, keeps him in game shape and can earn some easy money (assuming he doesn't get hurt). However, I just wonder how it will affect his legs for a long, even if shortened, NBA season.

Trader Joe
07-07-2011, 02:00 PM
There was an article not long ago comparing Indiana to 3rd world countries and yes if Indiana was a country it would be a 3rd world country, by the way 3rd world country doesn't mean that the country is in ruins or anything like that.

I forgot that everything I read is fact regardless of the source or writer. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

Trader Joe
07-07-2011, 02:03 PM
I also question if anyone here realizes that third world countries are actually countries with governments that fail to align with capitalism or communism as a governing style. It was coined after WW2. The media has ruined it and made it mean poor or under developed. The term you guys are all looking for is a "developing country".

graphic-er
07-07-2011, 02:04 PM
You have proven your total ignorance on the subject of Turkey, you are therefore forgiven.

Let me rest with the fact that Costantinople was a metropole before America was discovered.
In Istanbul alone about 15 million people will disagree with you

No ****? Millions of people lived in cities in Turkey before America was discovered. Just because alot of people live there does not mean its developed.
Freaking India is still considered a developing country. My gosh *removed* keep it about the message and not the messenger please 15 million people in Istanbul, and I bet the majority of them live in conditions that are worse than what you find in the most blighted neighborhood of D.C. Last time I checked, D.C. doesn't have tin sheet slums with millions of people living in them.

Major Cold
07-07-2011, 02:05 PM
You think this is odd behavior from him?


More bizarre than usual I guess.

graphic-er
07-07-2011, 02:07 PM
I also question if anyone here realizes that third world countries are actually countries with governments that fail to align with capitalism or communism as a governing style. It was coined after WW2. The media has ruined it and made it mean poor or under developed. The term you guys are all looking for is a "developing country".

Yes you are right, I certainly misused the term 3rd world, its has been mistakenly aligned with poor underdeveloped countries.

Since86
07-07-2011, 02:14 PM
I also question if anyone here realizes that third world countries are actually countries with governments that fail to align with capitalism or communism as a governing style. It was coined after WW2. The media has ruined it and made it mean poor or under developed. The term you guys are all looking for is a "developing country".

Don't get started with facts, it will ruin the conversation.

SMosley21
07-07-2011, 02:40 PM
I think you're all missing out on the real story here.


Zaza Pachulia is going to play for Besiktas.

Swish
07-07-2011, 02:46 PM
Can we keep this on topic, please? Go argue about stupid **** somewhere else.

troyc11a
07-07-2011, 02:54 PM
Let's be realistic here. How many NBA players do you think will go play overseas? 10x more will not. But there again, who are the ones who could be hurt the most by an NBA lockout? Not Deron Williams type players!
I hope the average NBA players break with the agents and superstars to come back and play. After all, they are the ones who will get hurt by whatever system gets put in place.

graphic-er
07-07-2011, 03:22 PM
Let's be realistic here. How many NBA players do you think will go play overseas? 10x more will not. But there again, who are the ones who could be hurt the most by an NBA lockout? Not Deron Williams type players!
I hope the average NBA players break with the agents and superstars to come back and play. After all, they are the ones who will get hurt by whatever system gets put in place.

I agree, wouldn't that be something to see?

Swish
07-07-2011, 03:25 PM
Apparently the coach of the Turkey team wants to set a meeting with Kobe Bryant. Here's a quote that Woj tweeted:


Ataman: "If Kobe wants to play during lockout, wants to play with Deron, live in 1 of world's best cities, we can find some deal on money."

NapTonius Monk
07-07-2011, 03:27 PM
Maybe we should employ the use of one of these:


http://blog.timesunion.com/college/files/2010/07/Sarcasm.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_tCcjI6S-GTw/Sb08U79b-mI/AAAAAAAAAuU/IJj8oBjzO5M/s400/32.+SARCASM+ALERT.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_96Kvbam55yo/TTSxMq2oYnI/AAAAAAAAAQ0/16r17QQ2kaM/s1600/SarcasmAlert.gif

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/41802_378955005554_3533483_n.jpg

http://rlv.zcache.com/irony_sarcasm_mug-p1680108075467686332otmb_400.jpg

http://rlv.zcache.com/sarcastic_comment_loading_tshirt-d2354633193752352813rh4_210.jpg

Swish
07-07-2011, 03:30 PM
Why?

MnvrChvy
07-07-2011, 04:33 PM
There was an article not long ago comparing Indiana to 3rd world countries and yes if Indiana was a country it would be a 3rd world country, by the way 3rd world country doesn't mean that the country is in ruins or anything like that.

Who would even write an article like that? For reference, just about every state except California and Texas would qualify as well (New York included) depending on what your factors are.

King Tuts Tomb
07-07-2011, 04:51 PM
If I was already a millionaire and I could choose to play basketball in New Jersey or Turkey, I'd play in Turkey.

Peck
07-07-2011, 04:58 PM
If I was already a millionaire and I could choose to play basketball in New Jersey or Turkey, I'd play in Turkey.

HMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm................... .

New Jersey is a hop skip & a jump away from NYC, so I'm not sure that your use of Jersey is proper.

Honestly I'd have to think that Indiana would probably be one of the if not the least desirable places for a player to play. At least Utah has mountains and is not that far from Vegas.

Indiana has........ Nice decent living conditions but let's be honest in the entertainment department we are kind of lakcing.

Scot Pollard
07-07-2011, 05:00 PM
Yeah this is a sign that he will most likely not re-sign with New Jersey.

We need to get our cash ready because we're going to be one of the few fairly decent teams to pay him well.

Bird, **** David West! We need Deron Williams!

Swish
07-07-2011, 05:01 PM
I think these players going overseas is a big risk for them. What if they go over there and do not dominate like the laymen think they should?

owl
07-07-2011, 05:05 PM
I think if this becomes a trend that teams will start digging their heals in even more.
Time for a new NBA.

ballism
07-07-2011, 05:18 PM
I think these players going overseas is a big risk for them. What if they go over there and do not dominate like the laymen think they should?

What then? D-Will won't get his max contract anymore? NBA fans won't buy his jerseys?
The only serious risk is injury.



Time for a new NBA.

In Europe!


Yeah this is a sign that he will most likely not re-sign with New Jersey.


Where did that come from?

Scot Pollard
07-07-2011, 05:20 PM
I think anyone would prefer to play in the pros if they could than play for a dinky little overseas team.

And no...we don't need a new NBA! Williams isn't even 100% to sign over there and it won't be long term. Just for a season at most.

Then we can sign him.

He won't be able to sign with the Lakers or Knicks at this point considering they would be way over cap.

Ozwalt72
07-07-2011, 05:23 PM
I think if this becomes a trend that teams will start digging their heals in even more.


How so? The players getting a little bit of cash playing overseas while subjecting themselves to "basketball miles" and injury potential, harming NBA team investments in them does not seem to lead to an NBA "digging their heels in." Heck, if THAT is the NBA's response, you'll probably see more NBA players actually going overseas long-term.

Scot Pollard
07-07-2011, 05:24 PM
Where did that come from?

From my brain making a prediction.

ballism
07-07-2011, 05:28 PM
Ohh. It seemed you used a random numbers generator for that prediction. :p

Swish
07-07-2011, 06:04 PM
Kobe Bryant is open to considering overseas offers for the duration of NBA lockout, sources familiar with his thinking tell Y! Sports.

http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/status/89092150163288065

Cactus Jax
07-07-2011, 06:17 PM
:inbeforethelock:

xBulletproof
07-07-2011, 06:22 PM
Holy cow. I am beginning to wonder if some of these people have ever left the city they were born in, for any reason at all. Just discuss basketball. At least if we disagree on that it can be construed as a matter of opinion. Some of what I have read here is just untrue.

My piece of advice, get a passport and use it. A lot.

Swish
07-07-2011, 06:26 PM
My advice: move on like the rest of us. We are discussion D. Will moving to Turkey if he has to, and Kobe maybe doing the same. Thank you.

Dgreenwell3
07-07-2011, 06:36 PM
Deron williams didnt want to stay in Salt Lake ( a great NBA town) why in the world would he want to come here? I think we would be great with him but I dont see it happening people.

xBulletproof
07-07-2011, 06:42 PM
My advice: move on like the rest of us. We are discussion D. Will moving to Turkey if he has to, and Kobe maybe doing the same. Thank you.

Well .... not all of us have kept up with stupidty and are just now reading it for the first time. Probably because I am 1,000 miles from home traveling as we speak. Something that needs to be done by some more apparently.

Ill move on when its not new to me, mmmk? Not everyone hawks the forum all day and sees it at the same time. KayThksBye.

vnzla81
07-07-2011, 06:53 PM
Holy cow. I am beginning to wonder if some of these people have ever left the city they were born in, for any reason at all. Just discuss basketball. At least if we disagree on that it can be construed as a matter of opinion. Some of what I have read here is just untrue.

My piece of advice, get a passport and use it. A lot.

I am not from Indiana, I'm from a "developing country" or as we like to call it a 3rd world country, trust me I've use my passport few times, thanks for the advise though.

Note:I'm done with this argument anyway.

Peck
07-07-2011, 06:55 PM
God this is going to be a long off-season......:(

pacer4ever
07-07-2011, 07:10 PM
LOL, watch him mess up his knee playing in a 3rd world country.

Turkey isn't 3rd world it actually is pretty nice

Swish
07-07-2011, 08:13 PM
Why do you people not read the entire topic before posting? It's only two friggin' pages long. SMH

Scot Pollard
07-07-2011, 08:24 PM
God this is going to be a long off-season......:(

It will do us very well though on the brightside.

We're currently talking about the guy we have the best chance of landing out of most teams.

Scot Pollard
07-07-2011, 08:30 PM
Deron williams didnt want to stay in Salt Lake ( a great NBA town) why in the world would he want to come here? I think we would be great with him but I dont see it happening people.

Because we'd be able to actually offer him a contract, a good one?

We're also not a terrible team to go to compared to some other teams out there with money.

As for Deron Williams and the Utah Jazz, they both needed to part ways for the better.

The owners will more than likely get their strict salary cap which will cause teams like the Lakers and Knicks not to be able to sign whoever they please just because it's a big market. Of course they can trade. Say the Knicks want Dwight Howard. The Magic will definitely want Amare Stoudemire in return. These teams just can't buy their players they did last summer.

These stars have limited choices here to sign with. Either re-sign or pick a different team, but it might not be your dream team in the big city on stage.

This lockout will do us great actually. We're going to have an even bigger advantage. Still a pipedream to get a Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard type of player, but it's definitely not impossible with the owners plan in place and this class being there in 2012.

xBulletproof
07-07-2011, 08:42 PM
Why do you people not read the entire topic before posting? It's only two friggin' pages long. SMH

You're right. Why doesn't everyone get over things just because you have, or why don't we all have the basketball avatar going through a hoop. Get over yourself. Just because YOU'RE over something or whatever, doesn't mean nobody else has a right to say something about it or state their opinion just because 'Swish' is over it.

God forbid I reply in the 'quick reply' section at the bottom of page 2 because I am 1,000 miles from my PC and on my cell. God forbid anyone else have an opinion about something, because you're over it its like God has spoken and everyone should move on.

Shake your head at your arrogance that anyone should care if you're over it. Or shake it at the idea that it's not okay to post without reading every word in a topic. Good God, Im sorry forum Police that we didn't do it EXACTLY your way. Christ.

Dgreenwell3
07-07-2011, 08:44 PM
Because we'd be able to actually offer him a contract, a good one?

We're also not a terrible team to go to compared to some other teams out there with money.

As for Deron Williams and the Utah Jazz, they both needed to part ways for the better.

The owners will more than likely get their strict salary cap which will cause teams like the Lakers and Knicks not to be able to sign whoever they please just because it's a big market. Of course they can trade. Say the Knicks want Dwight Howard. The Magic will definitely want Amare Stoudemire in return. These teams just can't buy their players they did last summer.

These stars have limited choices here to sign with. Either re-sign or pick a different team, but it might not be your dream team in the big city on stage.

This lockout will do us great actually. We're going to have an even bigger advantage. Still a pipedream to get a Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard type of player, but it's definitely not impossible with the owners plan in place and this class being there in 2012.

I get what you are saying but the truth is while we have the ability to be a great team with a paul or Williams type, we wont get them. We will have to be smart drafters and pick up a diamond in the rough say in 3 years when Jake odum comes out (see my profile picture).

vnzla81
07-07-2011, 09:00 PM
Im sorry forum Police that we didn't do it EXACTLY your way. Christ.

PD's Police calling another person forum police? :laugh:

Trophy
07-07-2011, 09:18 PM
A lengthy lockout with the hard cap in place will definitely be a huge positive for us in having a shot at landing Deron Williams.

He said he wouldn't mind and would listen about re-signing with the Nets.

I'm not thinking too deeply into his signing with Turkey.

Either he'll not be in the NBA for a season with a season causing the Nets really suck or there won't be an NBA season at all.

Either way, he's still going to be one of the big names in the FA market in 2012 and I'd love to get.

King Tuts Tomb
07-07-2011, 09:26 PM
HMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm................... .

New Jersey is a hop skip & a jump away from NYC, so I'm not sure that your use of Jersey is proper.


Although my use of the pronoun "I" was proper because I was talking about myself. If I had the choice I'd rather live in Istanbul than New York as well, so your point is moot.

Pacerized
07-07-2011, 09:31 PM
It will be interesting to see if FIBA allows this. If they choose to not allow players under NBA contract to play even though they are locked out, then the union has no power in this. FIBA could care less about the NBA players union.

Pacersalltheway10
07-07-2011, 09:39 PM
:tinfoil::tumbleweed::thisisnotfun:

BlueNGold
07-07-2011, 09:41 PM
Although my use of the pronoun "I" was proper because I was talking about myself. If I had the choice I'd rather live in Istanbul than New York as well, so your point is moot.

Just curious. Have you been to both Istanbul and New York? Just to be clear, I wonder if I would prefer Istanbul as well.

I've been to New York and New Jersey and I have no interest in returning there. But I am certain there are far worse places to live all over the world. What we may think as run down, hectic and densely populated is hardly that compared to many other parts of the world.

BTW, my brother-in-law lives in Chicago (a very nice city IMHO) and his standard of living and quality of life is not as good in some ways compared to Indy. He could double the size of his house and halve his commute if he moved to Indy. His life is simply more stressful there than it would be in Indy. JMHO.

ECKrueger
07-07-2011, 11:04 PM
I think some poster's brains joined the players in being locked out.

Wage
07-07-2011, 11:32 PM
BTW, my brother-in-law lives in Chicago (a very nice city IMHO) and his standard of living and quality of life is not as good in some ways compared to Indy. He could double the size of his house and halve his commute if he moved to Indy. His life is simply more stressful there than it would be in Indy. JMHO.

If it were in any way possible for me to do my job in Indy, I would move back from Chicago in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, it is not. Chicago is a fine city, I just prefer Indy in many ways.

The bottom line here is that these preferences are very personal. I am not sure what kind of progress we can make debating which city people we have never met would prefer to live in.

BlueNGold
07-07-2011, 11:37 PM
If it were in any way possible for me to do my job in Indy, I would move back from Chicago in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, it is not. Chicago is a fine city, I just prefer Indy in many ways.

The bottom line here is that these preferences are very personal. I am not sure what kind of progress we can make debating which city people we have never met would prefer to live in.

Agreed. There are some very interesting opportunities in Chicago that simply do not exist in Indianapolis. Depending on your situation, you might find one or the other the better way to go. My particular background and education would open untold avenues if I moved to the Windy City...

Peck
07-08-2011, 12:13 AM
Although my use of the pronoun "I" was proper because I was talking about myself. If I had the choice I'd rather live in Istanbul than New York as well, so your point is moot.

Fair enough.

Ransom
07-08-2011, 12:54 AM
I remember reading this article (http://insider.espn.go.com/insider/blog/_/name/player_x/id/6578526) in print at the library by "Player X" indicating several NBA stars fully intend to go overseas.

I fully expect more names to come up over the next few months.

317Kim
07-08-2011, 12:57 AM
Paul George just tweeted this, "Just signed my deal to play overseas baby!!!!!"

Is this a joke? (Edit - It was a joke! Sorry!)

Source: http://twitter.com/#!/King24George

ballism
07-08-2011, 03:00 AM
Broussard:

Sources say Deron Williams' one-year deal in Turkey is worth $5 million.
http://twitter.com/#!/Chris_Broussard/status/89078020253548544

That's more like it. Still, lowish.

Sookie
07-08-2011, 12:08 PM
It's a brilliant move by Williams..if a couple of more stars do this..the owners are going to have to crack a bit.

Since86
07-08-2011, 12:15 PM
It's a brilliant move by Williams..if a couple of more stars do this..the owners are going to have to crack a bit.

Why? Deron is going overseas to go play for 5 mil. The owners can offer him 8 mil and they would end up saving MORE money than they're shooting for now.

All this is doing is cutting the players throat, because they're showing they're willing to play for less. A LOT less.

EDIT: I mean even at 5mil for the entire season, instead of the reported 2.4mil he's still taking an 11mil per season pay cut. If he did that here in the States, the owners would sign off on that deal in less than a second.

pacer4ever
07-08-2011, 12:18 PM
Why? Deron is going overseas to go play for 5 mil. The owners can offer him 8 mil and they would end up saving MORE money than they're shooting for now.

All this is doing is cutting the players throat, because they're showing they're willing to play for less. A LOT less.

EDIT: I mean even at 5mil for the entire season, instead of the reported 2.4mil he's still taking an 11mil per season pay cut. If he did that here in the States, the owners would sign off on that deal in less than a second.

it is more like 10m IMO it is tax free with housing and a car and i assume other expenses .

ECKrueger
07-08-2011, 12:19 PM
Why? Deron is going overseas to go play for 5 mil. The owners can offer him 8 mil and they would end up saving MORE money than they're shooting for now.

All this is doing is cutting the players throat, because they're showing they're willing to play for less. A LOT less.

EDIT: I mean even at 5mil for the entire season, instead of the reported 2.4mil he's still taking an 11mil per season pay cut. If he did that here in the States, the owners would sign off on that deal in less than a second.

It really makes no sense. They are over here arguing over having to take pay cuts, but then they go overseas where they take...a huge pay cut.

ballism
07-08-2011, 12:30 PM
Why would the owners crack? If stars keep playing, it doesn't really hurt the owners...
Maybe a particular owner if their player gets hurt.

The stars preserve their brands by playing overseas, maybe even attract new fans.
Long term, that only helps NBA to recover from the lockout faster.
It's a star driven league, and when stars work on their brand during NBA's offseason instead of eating vaseline or getting arrested - that's always a good thing for business.

Owners always knew some guys will find jobs overseas. If Kobe and Deron stay in the center of attention for basketball reasons, it's not a bad thing for the owners.

Since86
07-08-2011, 12:33 PM
it is more like 10m IMO it is tax free with housing and a car and i assume other expenses .

I think you have it backwards. He's getting $200,000 per month, which equals 2.4mil for the year. When you add in all the extra crap he's getting that $2.4mil turns into $5mil.

Ozwalt72
07-08-2011, 12:33 PM
It really makes no sense. They are over here arguing over having to take pay cuts, but then they go overseas where they take...a huge pay cut.

I wouldn't call this a pay cut. Less money than he would be getting in the NBA season, sure, but it's not like its an either or option right now.

Sookie
07-08-2011, 12:50 PM
Why? Deron is going overseas to go play for 5 mil. The owners can offer him 8 mil and they would end up saving MORE money than they're shooting for now.

All this is doing is cutting the players throat, because they're showing they're willing to play for less. A LOT less.

EDIT: I mean even at 5mil for the entire season, instead of the reported 2.4mil he's still taking an 11mil per season pay cut. If he did that here in the States, the owners would sign off on that deal in less than a second.

No, it's showing that they'll go play elsewhere if they don't get what they want. It's also showing that the players won't crack if they run out of money..they'll go get a job overseas.

"Fine, you don't want to pay us what you are capable of paying us, we'll go elsewhere" The NBA can't be successful if the best players are playing in other countries. That's the threat to the owners.

Now New Jersey gets to sit and pray Williams doesn't get hurt and doesn't prefer Turkey.

Since86
07-08-2011, 01:01 PM
You're missing the bigger point.

The NBPA is saying that DWill is owed $16.5mil, which is what he would get this season. The NBA is saying no, we think he should get $12mil, roughly.

The NBPA is declines that offer, and then DWill goes and takes a job that is paying him $5mil.

He's shown that he is willing to play for $5mil. If he's willing to play for $5mil, then he's certainly willing to play for $12mil.

All the NBA needs to do is hold on to that offer of $12mil offer. The NBA is still offering him more money to do the exact same job as what he could get anywhere else in the world.

It makes no sense to refuse a $4mil paycut, and then accept a $11.5mil paycut.

At the end of the day, players are going to chose which league offers them more money. Clearly the NBA is able to pay them more, eventhough they're not going to be getting paid as much as what they were.

Money talks, and the NBA has lots more than anyone else.

wintermute
07-08-2011, 01:26 PM
You're missing the bigger point.

The NBPA is saying that DWill is owed $16.5mil, which is what he would get this season. The NBA is saying no, we think he should get $12mil, roughly.

The NBPA is declines that offer, and then DWill goes and takes a job that is paying him $5mil.

He's shown that he is willing to play for $5mil. If he's willing to play for $5mil, then he's certainly willing to play for $12mil.

All the NBA needs to do is hold on to that offer of $12mil offer. The NBA is still offering him more money to do the exact same job as what he could get anywhere else in the world.

It makes no sense to refuse a $4mil paycut, and then accept a $11.5mil paycut.

At the end of the day, players are going to chose which league offers them more money. Clearly the NBA is able to pay them more, eventhough they're not going to be getting paid as much as what they were.

Money talks, and the NBA has lots more than anyone else.

You're comparing apples and oranges here.

For one, Deron is not getting a market value contract here, as ballism has been pointing out. He's getting a contract which says that any time the NBA lockout ends, he can leave. That is in no way comparable to his multiyear NBA contract.

For comparison, check out the contract Krstic got - 2 years $9.8m from CSKA. Obviously there's more money available in Europe, but that money won't be available for players who aren't planning to stay in Europe long term.

I think of Deron's move as more of a promotional tour than a serious signing. He'll go over, play a few games, win a few fans, then come back to his NBA day job. Ditto for the Turkish team, getting Deron is more about PR and fan interest than becoming more competitive.

IMO a few players going to Europe won't significantly affect CBA negotiations, either way. Yeah you can argue it relieves some of the financial pressure on players. But frankly there's not enough money in Europe or Asia to employ some 400+ NBA players.

Since86
07-08-2011, 01:37 PM
With what is going on in Europe, I seriously doubt that many teams are able to offer players the level of money a team like CSKA Moscow can.

And while it might be apples to oranges, you can bet that the owners are going to use this signing, and others, as leverage. They're going to argue that the players are willing to play for a significant amout less than what the NBA is currently offering. And I don't know how you're saying it isn't "market value." The NBA is the only market that can offer such a high level of value. NBA players aren't going to go overseas to play basketball, especially when they can recieve more money from the NBA. Josh Childress should have put that argument to rest.

The apples to oranges argument might work for the NBPA, but it certainly won't help their overall argument that the players shouldn't lose money in order for NBA teams to get their financial houses in order.

I can see where the argument doesn't have much value for the league, but there's no way that it's going to be beneificial to the NBPA.

Sookie
07-08-2011, 01:39 PM
You're missing the bigger point.

The NBPA is saying that DWill is owed $16.5mil, which is what he would get this season. The NBA is saying no, we think he should get $12mil, roughly.

The NBPA is declines that offer, and then DWill goes and takes a job that is paying him $5mil.

He's shown that he is willing to play for $5mil. If he's willing to play for $5mil, then he's certainly willing to play for $12mil.

All the NBA needs to do is hold on to that offer of $12mil offer. The NBA is still offering him more money to do the exact same job as what he could get anywhere else in the world.

It makes no sense to refuse a $4mil paycut, and then accept a $11.5mil paycut.

At the end of the day, players are going to chose which league offers them more money. Clearly the NBA is able to pay them more, eventhough they're not going to be getting paid as much as what they were.

Money talks, and the NBA has lots more than anyone else.

No, that's not the case.

The players know that the league can offer them more than the 12 million. They also know that the NBA can't survive with the best players in the world playing elsewhere.

The power the NBA had was that the NBA players consider the NBA to be the preferred league, and weren't looking to go elsewhere.

This signing could start a trend. Wasn't Italy or Russia offering Kobe what amounted to about 50 Million to play there? Suppose Kobe's next. More players might follow.

Now you have a situation where the NBA needs the players more than the players need the NBA. That's the bigger picture. The NBA has the arrogance to think that the players will just accept what they give them, because it's the NBA. And if the players are overseas making money, they don't need the NBA to start again.

Essentially, the NBA loses it's main source of power in this fight.

edit: But there's no leverage.
"You took a 12 Million decrease in salary over there"
"Right, and I'll do it again unless you give me what I want."

Since86
07-08-2011, 01:46 PM
Until Kobe signs a contract worth $50M the argument is moot. Another poster, foreign, talked about how very few teams have the financial ability to sign players to such high contracts. The situation in Europe is going to get worse before it gets better, so there's going to be even less money available in the future.


But regardless, if the Indiana Pacers struggle to sign FA because of location, eventhough they can over pay, do you REALLY think that players are going to move to Europe? Uh, no.

Let's not forget that LeBron took a pay cut in order to go play somewhere outside of Cleveland. Let's also not forget that all 3 of them took a pay cut to play in Miami, had they decided to go play somewhere else.

The NBA is the NBA for a reason. It's the top of the mountain, and players aren't going to move to Europe and thousands and thousands of miles away from their friends and family in order to play for less money, in some pretty dicey situations. (I mean take a look at all the riots happening in Greece)

Until NBA players actually start signing contracts for multi-year deals worth big time money, the argument is pointless. Hypothetical situations aren't going to drastically change the course of the CBA discussions.

wintermute
07-08-2011, 01:51 PM
And I don't know how you're saying it isn't "market value."

What I meant is that if Deron were a true free agent, willing to sign a 2 year or even 1 full-year contract, he'd get a much larger offer. Not anywhere near $16m, but certainly more than $2m.

I've consistently said that Europe isn't a serious long term option for top players. And as I've said, I doubt it would seriously impact CBA negotiations either way.

Sookie
07-08-2011, 01:58 PM
Until Kobe signs a contract worth $50M the argument is moot. Another poster, foreign, talked about how very few teams have the financial ability to sign players to such high contracts. The situation in Europe is going to get worse before it gets better, so there's going to be even less money available in the future.


But regardless, if the Indiana Pacers struggle to sign FA because of location, eventhough they can over pay, do you REALLY think that players are going to move to Europe? Uh, no.

Let's not forget that LeBron took a pay cut in order to go play somewhere outside of Cleveland. Let's also not forget that all 3 of them took a pay cut to play in Miami, had they decided to go play somewhere else.

The NBA is the NBA for a reason. It's the top of the mountain, and players aren't going to move to Europe and thousands and thousands of miles away from their friends and family in order to play for less money, in some pretty dicey situations. (I mean take a look at all the riots happening in Greece)

Until NBA players actually start signing contracts for multi-year deals worth big time money, the argument is pointless. Hypothetical situations aren't going to drastically change the course of the CBA discussions.

That's the point.

It's the NBA because of WHO plays in that league. The players aren't there, it's not the best league in the world anymore.

And that's essentially Deron William's threat. The amount of money he's making overseas doesn't matter.

It's not like William's is making peanuts. It's 5 Million. (And 5 Million means a lot more there...) Doing this allows the players to play just as much hardball as the owners are.

Since86
07-08-2011, 02:13 PM
Players aren't going to go to Europe. I will bet any amount of money, or whatever other prize you want. It's not going to happen.

If they won't sign with the Pacers because it's in Indianapolis, they sure as hell aren't going to go play in Italy, or Greece, or where ever.

Not only that, but no other league in the world can offer as much money as the NBA. As much as we are cutting back on expenses here, the rest of the world is doing just as much, if not more. (except for a few places obviously, but no one is going to go play in China)

The Euro is crumbling, and it's affecting every single nation's economy there. They do not have the funds to pay big name players a bunch of money, and they certainly don't have the funds to pay multiple big name players a lot of money.

Then you get into the fact that Euroleague has rules in place for the number of "foreign" born players on rosters. Teams can't load up on US players, there are rules in place that prohibit it.

So if there was an owner of a team that could absorb big name players for tons and tons of money, he could only take on a select few.

If the worlds aligned perfectly, then yes, the NBA could have some real compeition. But the worlds aren't aligned perfectly, and they're not even aligned decently. They're not even in the same universe right now.

There are too many factors on so many different levels that is effecting the situation and none of them are anywhere near being solved.

If CSKA or whoever offered Kobe $50mil to play one season, then why in the hell didn't he take it? And we're talking about a player who grew up doing the Euro league grinds with his father.

It's not going to happen.

Swish
07-08-2011, 02:26 PM
The NBA absolutely can survive without its top stars. If DWill, Kobe, Dwight Howard, and the Heat douchebags all find a home in Europe, you know who will care: Nobody. The NBA will go on. Those guys will live in relative obscurity, while someone here in the States takes their place. There's not going to be some major surge in popularity in European basketball here in the States if those guys leave. In fact, the NBA would probably be BETTER OFF if those guys left, tbh.

Chewy
07-08-2011, 02:35 PM
It has nothing to do with the economy, basketball is just not and never was popular enough to be self sustainable business in europe, most of the clubs are either run by billionaire basketball fans or are financed by their major soccer clubs. There might be some temporary signings, but they will come back once the lockout ends. The only way some players leave permanently is if the owners proposal of 40something million hard cap comes to fruition, but i doubt that would happen.

I don't see it as some sort of threat or leverage for players union, it's just a player earning some money and keeping himself in shape playing competitive ball during the lockout.

Chewy
07-08-2011, 02:40 PM
The NBA absolutely can survive without its top stars. If DWill, Kobe, Dwight Howard, and the Heat douchebags all find a home in Europe, you know who will care: Nobody. The NBA will go on. Those guys will live in relative obscurity, while someone here in the States takes their place. There's not going to be some major surge in popularity in European basketball here in the States if those guys leave. In fact, the NBA would probably be BETTER OFF if those guys left, tbh.

So the league would be better of if the league wide skill would drop dramatically?

Swish
07-08-2011, 02:42 PM
If they took their me-first, money grubbing attitudes with them so that the NBA can set up a system of league-wide competition with contracts that require players continue to play after the ink has dried on their latest big dollar contract: yes.

And that isn't a condemnation on the guys I mentioned specifically. But if those guys have to go to get rid of the trash keeping the NBA from being competitive like its NFL brethren, so be it.

graphic-er
07-08-2011, 03:05 PM
The NBA absolutely can survive without its top stars. If DWill, Kobe, Dwight Howard, and the Heat douchebags all find a home in Europe, you know who will care: Nobody. The NBA will go on. Those guys will live in relative obscurity, while someone here in the States takes their place. There's not going to be some major surge in popularity in European basketball here in the States if those guys leave. In fact, the NBA would probably be BETTER OFF if those guys left, tbh.

I agree, there is always somebody willing to take your place if you bow out from the being on top of the mountain.

The NBA would go on, it might be alittle smaller revenue wise for a few years, but other players will rise to the top, and be crowned best in the world because they play in the NBA. Because the media is not going to bother to focus on European ball when we have 30 teams along with several hundred college teams here.

Chewy
07-08-2011, 03:08 PM
If they took their me-first, money grubbing attitudes with them so that the NBA can set up a system of league-wide competition with contracts that require players continue to play after the ink has dried on their latest big dollar contract: yes.

And that isn't a condemnation on the guys I mentioned specifically. But if those guys have to go to get rid of the trash keeping the NBA from being competitive like its NFL brethren, so be it.

New players with "me-first, money grabbing attitudes" would be drafted, people don't change. Did i miss some players playing with teams they don't have contracts with?

You cannot compare NFL and NBA, different games, different formats. BO1 versus BO7 playoffs, 11 versus 5 players on the field, if you want randomness then why not make the playoffs into March madness.

graphic-er
07-08-2011, 03:10 PM
Turkey isn't 3rd world it actually is pretty nice

something lik 40% of the population in Istanbul lives in tin sheet slums and shanty towns. Sound just peachy. I betting they don't cover that on the tour though.

Pretty nice for a developing country I guess, and i'm sure pretty nice for millionaire athletes. Though you can say that about any city in the world.

Swish
07-08-2011, 03:11 PM
New players with "me-first, money grabbing attitudes" that now play in a system that is set up to neutralize that to the benefit of everyone. That's the difference.

ilive4sports
07-08-2011, 03:16 PM
Except if all the top players go to Europe and get paid, what will stop the next tier of players from going over and getting paid? Especially as the skill level in the NBA drops. The NBA is popular because its the best basketball league there is. If another league takes that title, then the NBA goes down. Look at the MLS. Inferior product, inferior league, and no one really cares about it. People much rather watch the different European leagues because thats where the best players and are.

Chewy
07-08-2011, 03:20 PM
New players with "me-first, money grabbing attitudes" that now play in a system that is set up to neutralize that to the benefit of everyone. That's the difference.

I don't think that is possible, even in theory. And i don't even think this is what the owners are about with this lockout.

graphic-er
07-08-2011, 03:21 PM
That's the point.

It's the NBA because of WHO plays in that league. The players aren't there, it's not the best league in the world anymore.

And that's essentially Deron William's threat. The amount of money he's making overseas doesn't matter.

It's not like William's is making peanuts. It's 5 Million. (And 5 Million means a lot more there...) Doing this allows the players to play just as much hardball as the owners are.

I totally disagree, the NBA is a result of developing the best players in the world. Thats what makes it the best of the best. If the best players of the NBA leave for Europe it will cheapen their accomplishments. The level of competition will not match the NBA. You would expect these elite level players to win all sorts of European Championships. I can see it now, Kobe could average +30 over in Europe. The reaction will be hell, why not more? Look who he is playing against!

Chewy
07-08-2011, 03:24 PM
I totally disagree, the NBA is a result of developing the best players in the world. Thats what makes it the best of the best. If the best players of the NBA leave for Europe it will cheapen their accomplishments. The level of competition will not match the NBA. You would expect these elite level players to win all sorts of European Championships. I can see it now, Kobe could average +30 over in Europe. The reaction will be hell, why not more? Look who he is playing against!

Wouldn't he be playing against Lebron, Wade etc?

graphic-er
07-08-2011, 03:37 PM
Except if all the top players go to Europe and get paid, what will stop the next tier of players from going over and getting paid? Especially as the skill level in the NBA drops. The NBA is popular because its the best basketball league there is. If another league takes that title, then the NBA goes down. Look at the MLS. Inferior product, inferior league, and no one really cares about it. People much rather watch the different European leagues because thats where the best players and are.

Here is a competing example:

In Soccer, David Beckam was one of the most celebrated athletes of the past 20 years. Granted being English had alot to do with it. Towards the end of his elite playing days he took giant money grab pay day of 100 million dollars to sign with the LA Galaxy. He is now just considered a celebrity athlete. Heck he had mostly a ceremonial captain's role on the last World Cup team. David Beckam, once a great player now just considered and older player playing against inferior competition in America.......why would the same not be said about Kobe Bryant?

graphic-er
07-08-2011, 03:43 PM
Wouldn't he be playing against Lebron, Wade etc?

What would it matter? So the handful of NBA superstars ditch the league and become Euroleague superstars.... They are still playing with a bunch of mediocre competition. If those guys left the NBA then the players that are left will better compensated, and have bigger roles. You don't think a Player of Granger's calibur would see more success if players like Lebron, Kobe, and Wade werent in the league?

Swish
07-08-2011, 03:51 PM
Except if all the top players go to Europe and get paid

Top superstars are not going to get paid more in Europe than they would in the NBA. Williams is proof.

Chewy
07-08-2011, 04:07 PM
What would it matter? So the handful of NBA superstars ditch the league and become Euroleague superstars.... They are still playing with a bunch of mediocre competition. If those guys left the NBA then the players that are left will better compensated, and have bigger roles. You don't think a Player of Granger's calibur would see more success if players like Lebron, Kobe, and Wade werent in the league?

PlayerS plural, not a handfull. Why would the players leave? Money. If there would be hypothetical league that would as whole have a bigger sustainable payroll than NBA, then most of the top players would naturally follow the money, thus making that league the strongest in the world and further attracting the young best young players. Your argument didn't make any logical sense, but maybe because we are talking about different scenarios.

So if owners push too much for salary reductions, they would get closer to loosing talent. The current offer is not there yet but it's pretty damn close.

ilive4sports
07-08-2011, 04:08 PM
Here is a competing example:

In Soccer, David Beckam was one of the most celebrated athletes of the past 20 years. Granted being English had alot to do with it. Towards the end of his elite playing days he took giant money grab pay day of 100 million dollars to sign with the LA Galaxy. He is now just considered a celebrity athlete. Heck he had mostly a ceremonial captain's role on the last World Cup team. David Beckam, once a great player now just considered and older player playing against inferior competition in America.......why would the same not be said about Kobe Bryant?

Well Kobe is still a much better player than what Beckam was. And what about LeBron, Wade, Howard, Nowitzki and company, all at the top of their game? Its a very different situation where old, past their prime players come to MLS for some money, compared to players at the top of their game going to Europe to play there.

And if you think they won't get paid, you are wrong. Quite frankly I think this whole thing by Williams is a bit of a stunt. I don't think he expects to be there very long, if at all. But if players seriously consider going over there, they will be paid very well.

ballism
07-08-2011, 04:15 PM
Top superstars are not going to get paid more in Europe than they would in the NBA. Williams is proof.

Hypothetically, Europe is more than capable of 'stealing' and sustaining a major league next to soccer, with NBA-like salaries. But it would take NBA shutting down for years, which will never happen.
Still, Berlin Pacers? I'd get to a few games each year!

Since86
07-08-2011, 04:56 PM
No one has even attempted to answer my questions.

1.) Someone said that CSKA Moscow has offered Kobe $50M in the past to play for them. If it's all about the money, then why didn't he leave the NBA then?
2.) If the Pacers struggle to sign FA, because of location, then how in the hell are teams in Europe going to get players to sign?

Since86
07-08-2011, 05:01 PM
Let's be real about the situation.

European leagues didn't just pop up out of no where. They've been around for quite some time. Do you really not think that the NBPA hasn't already threatened that their players would simply go overseas?

Are we really going to sit here and think that DWill just came up on this idea on his own, and that it hasn't been discussed between the NBA and the NBPA?

Come on now....

If Europe was able to absorb NBA players, and give them more money than the NBA is able too, it would have already happened.

We were told how players were going to start going to Europe to get around the NBA's age limit rule. We were told how players were going to go to Europe to get better contracts, when Josh Childress left.

Neither has happened. I wonder why......

Chewy
07-08-2011, 05:05 PM
No one has even attempted to answer my questions.

1.) Someone said that CSKA Moscow has offered Kobe $50M in the past to play for them. If it's all about the money, then why didn't he leave the NBA then?
2.) If the Pacers struggle to sign FA, because of location, then how in the hell are teams in Europe going to get players to sign?

1.) There was no such offer, no offer at all actually, Kobe was asked if he would play in Europe for 50m a year in interview, he said yes. But there was no offer.

2.) Why wouldn't they, this an odd question.

ballism
07-08-2011, 05:21 PM
Idk why someone wouldn't like to live in Paris or Rome because of location. It's about money, stability and image of the league (which leads to shoe deals etc).
Sure, there's the thing of acclimatization in a foreign country. But everyone gets over it, so I'm not sure why US players wouldn't. Euro soccer leagues seem to attract US players just fine.

BlueNGold
07-08-2011, 08:40 PM
I totally disagree, the NBA is a result of developing the best players in the world. Thats what makes it the best of the best. If the best players of the NBA leave for Europe it will cheapen their accomplishments. The level of competition will not match the NBA. You would expect these elite level players to win all sorts of European Championships. I can see it now, Kobe could average +30 over in Europe. The reaction will be hell, why not more? Look who he is playing against!

I don't buy this. Great players are going to be great anywhere. Sure, the NBA may be the most competitive league and may hone the players' skills better...but unless someone is attempting to come back to the US at the age of 34 after being there 5 years...I would say it's a non-factor. One or two years will change nothing either in their skill level or their reputations. Give me an example of someone who lost their edge after one year overseas...and returned less effective.

dal9
07-09-2011, 11:34 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6753259



SAN DIEGO -- Though he plans to play in Turkey during the lockout, New Jersey Nets point guard Deron Williams will rejoin the NBA as soon as an agreement on a collective bargaining agreement is reached. But if the owners break the players and get the proposal they're pushing for, Williams believes some stars could opt to play overseas long term.

"If the proposal (the owners) have, if that's what they're sticking with and that's what they want, then I think it would be hard for a lot of guys to come back to the NBA," Williams said Friday in an interview at a private golf resort in San Diego.

Williams said any collective bargaining agreement that would leave stars such as Kobe Bryant making only $11 million a year -- the owners have proposed cutting players' salaries by roughly a third -- could open the door for an unprecedented exodus to Europe.

"(Kobe) could go make more money overseas, I guarantee you." said Williams, who has a one-year, $5 million deal with Besiktas. "If (European teams) knew he could be there for a full season, or they knew I could be there for a full season, or they knew LeBron James could be there for a full season, they'll pay more money, of course."

If other stars follow Williams to Europe during the lockout, it could be a blow to the league's owners, giving the players' union the leverage it needs to fight off the owners' demands. Williams said he spoke with the union before agreeing to play in Turkey to make sure he wasn't damaging its cause. He said NBPA executive director Billy Hunter was in favor of the move.

"I talked to Mr. Hunter and he said he supported it," Williams said. "He was happy for me. He thought I made a great decision, a business decision. He was behind me."

Williams' new coach, Ergin Ataman of Besiktas, has said he hopes to sign Bryant to play alongside Williams. But Williams can see Bryant signing elsewhere first.

"I see him going to China or somewhere," said Williams, who teamed with Bryant to help the U.S. win the gold medal at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. "He's big in China. I was over there with him in Beijing. He's 'The Man' over there."

Williams said he has not spoken with Bryant, but he estimates he's heard from 10 to 15 other players, some of them superstars, since his decision to play overseas became public. He said many players are willing to follow his lead.

"I've talked to a lot of players, you would be surprised," he said, refusing to name names. "I talked to a few before and I knew some guys were considering it as well. But since it came out, it was just like a snowball of guys calling me (saying) 'What are you doing? When are you leaving?' And guys want to go too. They want to do it."

Williams said he started thinking about playing overseas two years ago, when the union began telling players a lockout was likely. While he has not been allowed to speak with the Nets since the lockout was imposed on July 1, Williams made them aware of his intentions before the work stoppage.

Williams, who has two years and $34 million remaining on his deal, can opt out next summer. If the entire season is lost to the lockout, it could mean he never plays another game for the Nets. With the club scheduled to move to Brooklyn for the 2012-2013 season, that would be a crushing blow to the franchise, which traded Devin Harris, Derrick Favors and two first-round draft picks to Utah for Williams in February.

Williams said he has not yet decided whether he will opt out, but he admitted it would be unfortunate for him and the Nets if the season is canceled.

"I think it will kind of put a damper on things because I want to see where the Nets are going this season," Williams said. "See what kind of additions we can make, because that will definitely help. But I don't know. I still can't really say anything until the new CBA because who knows if I even can opt out? There's no telling."

Williams spoke highly of the Nets' organization, saying he played golf with GM Billy King and coach Avery Johnson before the lockout. The club has pitched Williams on being the face of the new franchise in Brooklyn, and he likes what he's heard so far.

"They have big dreams for Brooklyn and I can kind of picture that," he said. "It kind of excites me. I think it can be big."

If Williams, who had surgery on his right wrist in April, were to get hurt in Turkey, the Nets could void his contract. He said he is in the process of securing personal insurance against injury just in case. But ultimately, he isn't worried about injury.

"People say, 'Oh, you're going to get hurt,'" Williams said. "I can get hurt playing at (the University of San Diego) or wherever I'm at. I can get hurt walking down these steps. Of course, that's a big part of it. But I also did my due diligence, researched insurance. I'll be covered."

Some have speculated that Williams, who has made more than $40 million over his six-year career, is going overseas because he needs the money. He laughed at that notion.

"It's ridiculous," he said. "We've known this lockout's coming. I have plenty of money saved for the lockout purpose. Now, I don't even need to touch that money. I can invest that money. I can go grow that money. It's not something that's money-driven.

"It's more about the experience. Experience and being able to compete and play basketball. I don't want to sit around. That's what the NBA wants us to do right now. They locked us out of our gyms, they locked us out of facilities. We got to go find somewhere on our own to go hoop, to put games together. I don't have to do that. I've got a team. I'm going to go through organized practices. I'm going to be in game situations. So if the lockout is lifted, I'm going to be ready to play."

Williams has not yet signed his contract with Besiktas, but the franchise's management team is planning to come to the United States next week to wrap everything up. While there is a clause in the contract that will allow him to return to the NBA whenever the lockout ends, he doesn't see that happening quickly.

"I don't see a deal getting done anytime soon," he said, "because we're so far apart."

Williams spoke extensively with his former Utah Jazz teammate Mehmet Okur, who is from Turkey, before making his decision. He also spoke with former University of Illinois teammate Dee Brown, who has played professionally in Turkey. He did not get to speak with Allen Iverson, who played briefly for Besiktas last season.

Williams will take his wife and four kids with him to Istanbul, where the team will provide them with an apartment, a car and personal security.

"It's just different," Williams said. "There is no other time in my career that I'll be able to go live and play in another city, experience a different lifestyle, see new things. I'm looking forward to it."

Chris Broussard is a senior writer for ESPN The Magazine.

Follow Chris Broussard on Twitter: @chris_broussard

Banta
07-10-2011, 09:00 AM
The funny part in all this 3rd world country argument is that if Indiana was a country by itself, it would be a 3rd world country :twocents:

:rolleyes:

BlueNGold
07-10-2011, 09:13 AM
Deron is doing what I would expect all the players to do. That is, make use of the free market. I'm glad he's doing this.

Am I surprised there is no talk of the NBPA forming a new league? Nope....because the NBA as it is presently constructed is not profitable for most owners. Otherwise, there would be people taking up that opportunity.

This is why the players really only have one option and it's what Deron is doing...playing for another organized league overseas...probably for less money...because the money players make in the NBA isn't based on economics of the business. It's based on whatever a billionaire is willing to burn to have their hobby.

So, go for it Deron. Good for you, dude. This is what it's all about...

bulldog
07-10-2011, 12:41 PM
If the proposal (the owners) have, if that's what they're sticking with and that's what they want, then I think it would be hard for a lot of guys to come back to the NBA," Williams said Friday in an interview at a private golf resort in San Diego.

Deron Williams said that the NBA won't be financially appealing to players from A PRIVATE GOLF RESORT! HAHAHAHAHA.

Unemployment is at 9.2%.

Shade
07-10-2011, 12:56 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6753259


Chris Broussard is a senior writer for ESPN The Magazine.

Follow Chris Broussard on Twitter: @chris_broussard

Total bluff.

1) Most NBA players will make significantly less overseas, which negates the whole point of the players' stance during the lockout. They're now cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

B) Most NBA players, particularly those with family, won't want to go overseas, especially for equal or less money.

Personally, I hope all these spoiled players go overseas and stay there.

Hicks
07-10-2011, 03:36 PM
It's easy to play for $5m a season when you've already made several multiples of that in your career. Try convincing players on their rookie deals that this is the life for them instead of the NBA and making more money when this is over.

Kstat
07-10-2011, 06:31 PM
Deron is as short sighted as they come.

If a top-3 point guard in the world can only bank $5 million, what message does that send everyone else?

King Tuts Tomb
07-10-2011, 09:07 PM
Deron is as short sighted as they come.

If a top-3 point guard in the world can only bank $5 million, what message does that send everyone else?

I'm assuming it's only $5 million for two reasons:

1. From the article: "There is a clause in the contract that will allow him to return to the NBA whenever the lockout ends." He's taking a pay cut because he has an insanely flexible opt out contract. He says later: "If (European teams) knew he could be there for a full season, or they knew I could be there for a full season, or they knew LeBron James could be there for a full season, they'll pay more money, of course." Were he to sign a true multi-year deal I doubt it would be for only 5 mil.

2. If I remember correctly, the Euro season is shorter, around half of an NBA season, and definitely shorter than the 90+ games Williams has been playing a season for most of his career.

LA_Confidential
07-10-2011, 09:24 PM
Honestly, I hope that some major players follow D Will's lead. The NBA is a league of stars and without the Kobes, LeBrons, Wades, Melos and Durants the league would surely suffef. That would ultimately force the NBA's hand if all their golden geese went over seas and ran the risk of injury.

Franchises may be able to weasel out of contracts if a player does get hurt but that would still hurt the franchise from a fan morale perspective. Imagine if Kevin Durant goes to Istanbul to play ball and all of a sudden.........How much worse would this lockout be for OKC fans. The backlash from fan bases would be tremendous.

Low level player and guys on rookie deals are a dime a dozen. Sorry to say it but its true in the NBA. The League is driven by Star Players and if the stars revolt then the owners hand will be forced.

Since86
07-11-2011, 09:36 AM
2.) Why wouldn't they, this an odd question.

They won't come to Indianapolis, because of it's location and we are, what, 3hr flight to Florida, and a 5hr flight to CA.

I'm sure most NBA players would tell you that they would like to visit cities like Rome, etc, but I seriously doubt any of them are too fond of the idea of actually living there.

Pacerized
07-11-2011, 10:35 AM
A good piece by Stephen Smith. There is no way this helps the position of the players.
The superstars get one vote to approve a new cba. The majority of nba players won't get the opportunity to play and wouldn't get a fraction of the money Williams is getting. The fact that the money that might be offered to a select few nba players is only a fraction of what the nba is offering them should clue them in that they have a pretty sweet deal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=smith_stephen&id=6747406


"Here's the bottom line," a league executive told me Thursday. "Not only does Williams help the Nets by remaining in basketball shape and helping to globalize the brand, but he divides the players in a way without even knowing it.
"With the money he made last year, with him in position to collect on the $16.3 million for next season, assuming the lockout ends, if he's going to go and collect more cash in Turkey while mid-level, relatively unknown players remain here waiting for a deal -- because Turkey ain't inviting them overseas -- how is the union going to stand up and tell players they need to stand together? It ain't happening."
It's not happening because those mid-level players are the ones who'll need the money the most. They're the ones who'll complain the loudest. And the one argument the stars normally would have on their side, about sticking together and standing unified like Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady and others have done in the NFL, fly right out the window with any credibility they once had.

CableKC
07-11-2011, 01:07 PM
What's funny is that every other NBA Player that is more established is coming out saying that they could play for some European Team. To the common fan like me, this seems more like a ploy to show the Owners that if they can't work in the US...they'll just go elsewhere to find it and get paid. In theory..not a bad strategy...but seems transparent to me.

On a side note that is hilarious....Even Artest said that he could go play for some Team in Great Britain:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/214671/Artest_Plans_To_Play_For_British_Basketball_League #ixzz1Roilng6a

Ron Artest said he is going overseas to play during the lockout, but not where you might think.

Instead of playing for one of the prestigious teams in southern Europe, he plans to play for either the Cheshire Jets or Glasgow Rocks of the British Basketball League.

"The teams aren't good, but I'm going there to finish a movie, so why not?" he said.


Artest would be playing some basketball in Great Britain against some British Team that what would be considered be the equivalent to some NCAA Division II Teams as a sidenote to filiming some Movie ( I'm guessing that he's filming a sequel to the Dennis Rodman movie, "Double Team", with Jean Claude-Van Damme :rimshot: ), but this is Artest we are talking about here.

DeS
07-11-2011, 05:22 PM
On a side note that is hilarious....Even Artest said that he could go play for some Team in Great Britain...
Actually, Deron Williams signing Besiktas is almost the same as Artest signing team in GB. That is not the competitive or known team. Money - is the only reason i could see.
On the other hand - it is very hard to find a job in top european clubs. NBA players are being considered second-tier players, because nobody is considering building a team around the players who will leave by christmas or after one year. Last year Euroleague champion coach (yep - usually (not allways) the last word belongs to coach) said, that they will not sign any short-term contract. Top teams are already stacked with talent and huge contracts.
Basicly - business is over, if some NBA player still want to go in Europe, he should do it ASAP.

Constellations
07-11-2011, 05:34 PM
Is Deron Williams married? Maybe he is going over there to meet the an exotic beauty to bring back as his wife. Judging by the recent Hardee's commerical Turkey has a lot of talent.


LOL, watch him mess up his knee playing in a 3rd world country.


http://i53.tinypic.com/k2bitf.jpg

bellisimo
07-11-2011, 07:14 PM
As a Turk, reading this thread makes me laugh :D

PS...Turkey actually has some connections to Kobe as well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFYM4ECGpZA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebAtR5SlSMk

so who knows what might happen...

Marlin
07-12-2011, 11:43 AM
Actually, Deron Williams signing Besiktas is almost the same as Artest signing team in GB. That is not the competitive or known team. Money - is the only reason i could see.
On the other hand - it is very hard to find a job in top european clubs. NBA players are being considered second-tier players, because nobody is considering building a team around the players who will leave by christmas or after one year. Last year Euroleague champion coach (yep - usually (not allways) the last word belongs to coach) said, that they will not sign any short-term contract. Top teams are already stacked with talent and huge contracts.
Basicly - business is over, if some NBA player still want to go in Europe, he should do it ASAP.



Looks like DeS and Obradovic agree with me, Ballism. The Satnta Claus party is getting bigger :p

graphic-er
07-12-2011, 12:03 PM
http://i53.tinypic.com/k2bitf.jpg

I don't see how they are trollish remarks at all. The first one was a freaking joke.
The second one does not meet the definition of a trollish remark. I just said watch him get injured playing overseas.

Trolling is making a ridiculous statement just to illicit negative comments.

So maybe you are the troll.

Since86
07-12-2011, 04:10 PM
Chad Ford will have an article out sometime in the near future, should be later today or tomorrow, about Josh Childress and how he said he won't be going back to Europe.

Here's his tweet


@RicBucher (http://twitter.com/RicBucher) Josh Childress, who knows a bit about playing overseas, wouldn't dream of going back during the lockout. Story filed with the mothership.

Since86
07-14-2011, 12:11 PM
The only aspect of the current NBA labor dispute more curious than the owners' insistence on a save-us-from-our-own-stupidity system is the growing number of players talking about playing overseas as though it's a logical alternative should the 2011-12 season be truncated or aborted.



I can appreciate a player wanting to defy commissioner David Stern telling him he can't ply his craft, but for the vast majority of NBA players the thought of playing in Europe is reckless at best and closer to outright illogical.



For Sonny Weems (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3467/sonny-weems), the 25-year-old Toronto Raptors forward who made $850,000 last season, locking in a similar deal in Lithuania rather than risking a year making nothing is shrewd. Same with 33-year-old Philadelphia 76ers free agent Darius Songaila (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/1784/darius-songaila) signing with Turkey's Galatasaray for $1.5 million.



For Kobe Bryant (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/110/kobe-bryant), Ron Artest (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/25/ron-artest), Rudy Gay (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3005/rudy-gay), Amare Stoudemire (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/1727/amare-stoudemire), Deron Williams (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2798/deron-williams) or any other star risking his current NBA contract and future earning power, to play for a significantly smaller, non-guaranteed contract? Hardly.



But don't take my word for it. Phoenix Suns swingman Josh Childress (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2373/josh-childress) returned to the NBA this season after spending the previous two playing for the Grecian version of the Boston Celtics (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/bos/boston-celtics), Olympiacos. Now that he's back in the NBA, I asked if he'd consider returning to Europe to play during the lockout and jeopardize the last four years of his five-year, $33 million deal.



"No, I wouldn't," he says. "And I don't know why guys would. I understand that guys really want to play. But you sometimes have to look at what you have and treat this as a business. The only way I could see it making sense is if you're a player from a particular country going back. But for an American player with a good-sized guaranteed deal here, I can't see why you'd do it."



One great misnomer is that a player is just as at risk of a contract-voiding injury playing at Pauley Pavilion or in some other offseason pick-up game as playing overseas.

"Couldn't be further from the truth," says agent Mark Bartlestein, whose agency, Priority Sports & Entertainment, has nearly 40 NBA clients and two dozen players overseas, including Songaila. "Every NBA player contract that I'm aware of has language in it that allows them to play pick-up basketball. But you're not protected if you're playing in a summer league, charity game or for a team in Europe. For a player who is in a big-time lucrative contract, there's tremendous risk."



It's known as the "For the Love of the Game" clause, or Exhibit 5, and it's the part in every standard NBA contract in which protected activities are listed. Bartlestein says it's routine to list informal offseason training sessions under it, including even summer pro-am leagues. But unless Kobe Bryant had the foresight to stipulate in his Exhibit 5 that he has the right to barnstorm China or play in Italy, should he injure that balky knee and be impaired upon his return, the Los Angeles Lakers would have grounds to take some or all of the $83.5 million they owe him over the next three years. Same goes for Williams and the $33 million the New Jersey Nets owe him over the next two years if he's hurt playing for Turkey's Besiktas.



Bill Duffy, head of BDA Sports Management, suggested there could be strong legal grounds to prevent an NBA team from voiding an existing contract, seeing as the lockout is forcing players to play elsewhere to earn income. But that still wouldn't protect a star, such as Williams, who could suffer an injury that isn't career-ending but simply value-diminishing. Several agents gave the same example: Shaun Livingston (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2393/shaun-livingston). A potential franchise-cornerstone point guard, Livingston was building toward a maximum-salary deal or close to it before shredding his knee on a fast break four years ago. He's back playing but the chances of him signing an eight-figure deal are gone.

"For the NBA player with a market value of $2 million or more, Asia and Europe present very little in the way of legitimate playing options," says Mark Termini, whose agency has been placing clients with European teams for the past 25 years.



One report had Williams' contract with Turkey's Besiktas worth $5 million, but sources say that figure is inflated by incentives as lofty as Williams being the league MVP and Besiktas reaching the Turkish Finals, which it has done twice in its 108-year history, most recently in 2005.



Childress, comparatively, signed a three-year, $20 million deal with Olympiacos, but that's when its owners were trying to make a splash and Childress had to agree to stay at least one full season. With Greece's economy in ruins, both Olympiacos and Panathanaikos are now up for sale, leaving the number of teams able and willing to offer a deal comparable to Williams' at "less than 10," according to multiple sources.


Several teams from the Turkish League are spending lavishly because the country's economy is booming, but it is the exception thanks to, in part, not being a full member of the European Union. Not only are the days of the Greek government arranging tax-free concessions for its sports franchises over, but the cost of bailing out Greece has prompted other governments in the European Union to close tax loopholes for their country's teams as well.



NBA players are aghast at the thought of not having guaranteed contracts, but that's what they'd be signing with any European club. Childress doesn't see anything in Europe worth risking the $27 million remaining on the contract he signed with the Hawks as part of a sign-and-trade deal that landed him in Phoenix.



"One of the biggest things guys will have to realize is that whatever offer you get, there's no guarantee you'll actually get all that money," Childress says. "If a guy isn't playing well or a team is out of the playoffs, they'll just stop paying you. I know tons and tons of players who just walked away because they didn't want to go through the hassle of going to court to get their money."



And while Besiktas gave Williams an option to leave whenever the NBA lockout ends, the best teams in Europe are not inclined to do that.



"They want to build a team, not just get guys for a few months of entertainment," Childress says.



"Those teams don't look at themselves as a younger brother to the NBA or a feeder system or inferior level of competition," says one agent, who requested anonymity.

"Their perception and pride is not what it was 10 years ago."


Star players, no matter how big, should not expect star treatment, either. By anyone.



"Here the stars run the show," Childress says. "Over there it's the coach, and the coach only. You really have to buy into the system. The style of play is slower, a lot closer to a college style. It's a lot less reliant on talent and more on tactics and execution. They definitely have a high opinion of how they play the game and view NBA basketball as street ball. You go over there, you're playing against everyone -- other players, fans, referees, everyone. You don't get calls because you're stronger, faster and more athletic, so they think you should be able to take it."



The chance of injury, or falling out of favor, is heightened by travel and training that is considerably more spartan as well.



"I played for one of the biggest clubs in Europe," Childress says. "But there were still six- and seven-hour bus rides, we didn't stay at the best hotels and we flew commercial nine out of 10 times. And not all coaches care about your body. It's more military style. There's no getting tired. I'll be interested to see how guys' bodies respond."



Childress says he believes there may be a couple of select opportunities still available overseas and doesn't begrudge anyone from looking into them. But he had a word of advice:


"Do your research. Look into who the coaches are and the teams that don't pay. The worst thing is going over to play for however many months and then having to fight to get your money. I welcome guys to ask me questions. I can help them out. They play by different rules over there."



Ric Bucher is a senior writer for ESPN The Magazine.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/6764023/nba-ric-bucher-perils-going-europe

I hope that some more FA go over to Europe, then they can realize how freaking good they have it here.

Hicks
07-14-2011, 12:23 PM
This was very enlightening to me:



One great misnomer is that a player is just as at risk of a contract-voiding injury playing at Pauley Pavilion or in some other offseason pick-up game as playing overseas.

"Couldn't be further from the truth," says agent Mark Bartlestein, whose agency, Priority Sports & Entertainment, has nearly 40 NBA clients and two dozen players overseas, including Songaila. "Every NBA player contract that I'm aware of has language in it that allows them to play pick-up basketball. But you're not protected if you're playing in a summer league, charity game or for a team in Europe. For a player who is in a big-time lucrative contract, there's tremendous risk."

Hicks
07-14-2011, 12:29 PM
That is an interesting dichotomy I'm noticing in the discussions about this. First you'll hear how bad/unjust/unfair/whatever to not give NBA players guaranteed contracts, and how if the NBA locks out they can just take their talents elsewhere, but there's never any mention from that side of the argument of how "elsewhere" means non-guaranteed money.

Swish
07-14-2011, 12:31 PM
Personally, I hope all these spoiled players go overseas and stay there.

This to a million times infinity

dal9
07-14-2011, 02:39 PM
This to a million times infinity

You might be on the wrong board then...the address I believe you are looking for is Madantsdigest.com

Swish
07-14-2011, 03:51 PM
You might be on the wrong board then...the address I believe you are looking for is Madantsdigest.com

If I had Mad Ants on my TV, I'd watch them before watching these spoiled "superstars".

pacer4ever
07-15-2011, 04:39 PM
If I had Mad Ants on my TV, I'd watch them before watching these spoiled "superstars".

there is free feeds of there games online

naptownmenace
07-15-2011, 06:04 PM
Players aren't going to go to Europe. I will bet any amount of money, or whatever other prize you want. It's not going to happen.

If they won't sign with the Pacers because it's in Indianapolis, they sure as hell aren't going to go play in Italy, or Greece, or where ever.

<snip>

The Euro is crumbling, and it's affecting every single nation's economy there. They do not have the funds to pay big name players a bunch of money, and they certainly don't have the funds to pay multiple big name players a lot of money.


Well the Turkish club doesn't have to compete with the Pacers because there is a lockout and the Pacers can't even make them an offer. They're only doing this because of the lockout. They are purposely trying to put pressure on the Owners by threatening to go play overseas if they don't start negotiating in their favor. It could be a bluff but I think the players will go overseas if the league cancels games.

Also, the Euro is still stronger than the dollar isn't it? One Euro will still get you $1.41 bucks in the US.

5,000,000.00 EUR = 7,076,439.37 USD

Plus they probably won't even have to pay income taxes or pay less taxes in Turkey than they would in New Jersey and other NBA cities.

ilive4sports
07-15-2011, 06:10 PM
If I had Mad Ants on my TV, I'd watch them before watching these spoiled "superstars".

No one is making you watch the NBA.

BlueNGold
07-15-2011, 10:18 PM
If I had Mad Ants on my TV, I'd watch them before watching these spoiled "superstars".

I would probably pull out a can of Raid...but that's just me.

graphic-er
07-16-2011, 12:59 AM
One thing that has not been touched on in regards to superstars bolting for Europe and mid-level stars following them and thus diluting the league's talent is the the idea that sports, like politics is local. If Kobe left LA to go play in italy. There would be a huge backlash in this marketability. I'd imagine people would be burning his jersey on Rodeo drive. Money doesn't buy you respect, fans, sponsors, etc.. So you become a big star in a much smaller pond. ESPN is no longer playing your highlights every night.

ilive4sports
07-16-2011, 01:56 AM
One thing that has not been touched on in regards to superstars bolting for Europe and mid-level stars following them and thus diluting the league's talent is the the idea that sports, like politics is local. If Kobe left LA to go play in italy. There would be a huge backlash in this marketability. I'd imagine people would be burning his jersey on Rodeo drive. Money doesn't buy you respect, fans, sponsors, etc.. So you become a big star in a much smaller pond. ESPN is no longer playing your highlights every night.

If the stars go to Europe, ESPN will cover it.

King Tuts Tomb
07-16-2011, 02:31 AM
If I had Mad Ants on my TV, I'd watch them before watching these spoiled "superstars".

Lucky you.

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2011/07/346986802.jpg

graphic-er
07-16-2011, 12:17 PM
If the stars go to Europe, ESPN will cover it.

How can you say for sure. Yes they will probably report on it for a handful of games, but look the stars become stars because people want to see them, part of that allure is because they can go a game and see them play. After about a year of not being able to see players like Kobe and Lebron actually play basketball in person, they will sure fade from their attention. THen they will turn their attentions and fandom to players they can go and actually watch. Relevancy is all about exposure. For example, I was a big fan of formula 1 for years when they US Grand Prix here in Indy. Thats because its something I could actually go and watch and be a part of. So I had a vested interest in the following the entire series so that I knew what was going on for the race. Once they ended the race here in Indy I just couldn't see myself caring anymore. I couldn't stay up into the wee hours of the morning on the weekend to watch the races. It will be the same thing for European basketball.

Deadshot
07-16-2011, 12:25 PM
How can you say for sure. Yes they will probably report on it for a handful of games, but look the stars become stars because people want to see them, part of that allure is because they can go a game and see them play. After about a year of not being able to see players like Kobe and Lebron actually play basketball in person, they will sure fade from their attention. THen they will turn their attentions and fandom to players they can go and actually watch. Relevancy is all about exposure.

The whole idea of exposure brings up several options for ESPN though. ESPN typically hypes whatever sports they are playing on TV or have big deals with (think Nascar in the last 4-7yrs...they used to show a highlight or two at the end of Sportscenter on Mondays and now there are days when Dale Jr. or Danica has been one of the leading stories). In this case, ESPN can either keep up with some of the stars in Europe to try and maintain interest for a sport they broadcast, or they can instead use that time to hype a sport they currently air. Realistically, they'll probably go for the second option.

graphic-er
07-16-2011, 12:29 PM
The whole idea of exposure brings up several options for ESPN though. ESPN typically hypes whatever sports they are playing on TV or have big deals with (think Nascar in the last 4-7yrs...they used to show a highlight or two at the end of Sportscenter on Mondays and now there are days when Dale Jr. or Danica has been one of the leading stories). In this case, ESPN can either keep up with some of the stars in Europe to try and maintain interest for a sport they broadcast, or they can instead use that time to hype a sport they currently air. Realistically, they'll probably go for the second option.

I see your point, but I wonder if the Team USA games this past summer got good TV ratings or not? Many of them were shown on ESPN.

Deadshot
07-16-2011, 12:33 PM
It's hard to realistically gauge the interest for those games I think. I was very interested but wasn't looking to get up in the middle of the night to watch them live - and then I had usually seen a score by the time of the replay. Durant was the big draw but Love and DRose still weren't as popular then as they are at this point (you never would have seen something like the recent "Love in the Shower" ads then). People still regarded that team as the NBA's B squad.

The one thing ESPN will do well at is hyping Lebron and the Heat when the league returns, and as much as I hate hearing about them, people are legitimately interested in watching the drama unfold and it promotes the league. The hype surrounding the NBA playoffs this year was great. Most of my friends who don't even watch basketball tuned in to the finals just to see if Lebron would win or lose (and in the process, many of them became Dirk fans).

graphic-er
07-16-2011, 12:39 PM
It's hard to realistically gauge the interest for those games I think. I was very interested but wasn't looking to get up in the middle of the night to watch them live - and then I had usually seen a score by the time of the replay. Durant was the big draw but Love and DRose still weren't as popular then as they are at this point (you never would have seen something like the recent "Love in the Shower" ads then). People still regarded that team as the NBA's B squad.

The one thing ESPN will do well at is hyping Lebron and the Heat when the league returns, and as much as I hate hearing about them, people are legitimately interested in watching the drama unfold and it promotes the league. The hype surrounding the NBA playoffs this year was great. Most of my friends who don't even watch basketball tuned in to the finals just to see if Lebron would win or lose (and in the process, many of them became Dirk fans).

In your friends case, it was probably very easiy for them to tune into the finals because the NBA is a known quantity, they atleast have a inkling of knowledge of who the teams are. I would not see that happening with the Euroleague. Sports is local. The people who are really into Nascar, generally have a Nascar race that they can go to.

Deadshot
07-16-2011, 12:45 PM
I agree, I'm just hoping they can settle this before the season starts because I feel the NBA has a great level of momentum right now and I fear the league will fade into obscurity again.

Basketball Fan
07-16-2011, 04:04 PM
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/16/report-kobe-bryant-was-near-deal-with-besiktas-in-turkey-prior-to-match-fixing-scandal/#respond



Report: Kobe Bryant was near deal with Besiktas in Turkey prior to match-fixing scandal
Jul 16, 2011, 3:12 PM EDT
Leave a comment
Getty Images
Hey, so that whole thing about Besiktas being in trouble for football match-fixing?

Yeah, bad timing on that.

Jonathan Givony from Draft Express reports that Besiktas was nearing a deal for Kobe Bryant for $450,000 a month. Thatís a $250k increase over what Deron Williams is reportedly getting. Which makes sense, since Bryant is arguably the biggest internationally known basketball player in the world.

So, yeah, having your account frozen, if the earlier report is accurate, thatís a bit of bad luck, that.

Deron Williams and Kobe Bryant on the same team would be the biggest ticket in Europe for basketball. It would likely open doors to television opportunities and increase sponsorship exponentially. If Besiktasí personnel is cleared of the charges and Bryant does agree to come over, that changes the whole complexion of their future. It also sends a strong message to the owners that the best players will be going over.

The problem, naturally is that the $450,000 Besiktas would pay Bryant is money that could go to multiple members of the NBA non-elite, who are the ones that will struggle the most in the lockout. If the players are doing this only for themselves, great, should be a nice working vacation. But if this is being done to try and break ownership, some of that money needs to be spread to the rest of the players. Otherwise, all the stars will be doing is taking away more opportunities for the majority of the union to survive a prolonged lockout.

Williams and Bryant. Heíd finally have a point guard worthy of his talents.

ballism
07-16-2011, 04:34 PM
It's a shame though. Two of best basketball players, together, in Europe. And we won't even see them against top teams in Euroleague.
I'm not even sure how to watch full Besiktas games, maybe there'll be some net stream by local fans.

dal9
07-16-2011, 06:00 PM
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/16/report-kobe-bryant-was-near-deal-with-besiktas-in-turkey-prior-to-match-fixing-scandal/#respond

looks like it could still happen if they come up with the $, no?

pacer4ever
07-16-2011, 06:22 PM
It's a shame though. Two of best basketball players, together, in Europe. And we won't even see them against top teams in Euroleague.
I'm not even sure how to watch full Besiktas games, maybe there'll be some net stream by local fans.

NBA TV put all there games on when AI was there. I am sure there are streams also

ilive4sports
07-17-2011, 10:37 PM
I saw Deron Williams today at the celebrity golf tournament in Lake Tahoe and asked him if he was really gonna go oversea's. He said "we will see" and then gave me his autograph.

I forgot to tell him to sign with the Pacers in 2012 though :(

pacer4ever
07-17-2011, 11:03 PM
I saw Deron Williams today at the celebrity golf tournament in Lake Tahoe and asked him if he was really gonna go oversea's. He said "we will see" and then gave me his autograph.

I forgot to tell him to sign with the Pacers in 2012 though :(

:censored: u :D

dal9
07-18-2011, 01:08 PM
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/16/report-kobe-bryant-was-near-deal-with-besiktas-in-turkey-prior-to-match-fixing-scandal/#respond

Report: Besiktas not after Kobe Bryant
mark stein, espn link (http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/6780429/turkish-team-besiktas-pursuit-kobe-bryant-hold)

The Turkish team that recently reached an agreement to sign All-Star guard Deron Williams if the NBA lockout drags on has placed its pursuit of Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant on hold, according to an overseas report.

Turkey's NTV Spor reported Monday that Besiktas' basketball funds have been tied up by the match-fixing scandal that has ripped through the Turkish soccer world, forcing Besiktas to search for outside funding to help with the further pursuit of NBA players.



According to NTV Spor, Besiktas was initially prepared to offer Bryant a monthly salary of $500,000. But Bryant, according to the report, is seeking a monthly salary of $1 million to join Williams. Sources told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard earlier this month that Williams' overall deal with Besiktas is worth $5 million.

DraftExpress.com first reported over the weekend that Besiktas and Bryant's camp were exchanging financial figures before the growing soccer crisis intervened.

Any further Besiktas basketball moves, according to the NTV Spor report, will depend on finding a wealthy outside sponsor. It remains to be seen, though, whether Bryant's own endorsement deal with Turkish Airlines can eventually help him land a deal with Besiktas or another Turkish club to give him a temporary new home should the lockout extend into October.

Williams tweeted a picture Friday of his signed Besiktas contract. There has been no indication yet that the financial problems suddenly confronting Besiktas because of the soccer scandal will impact Williams' deal with the Istanbul club, which has faced FIBA sanctions as recently as the 2009-10 season for not paying American players (Lonny Baxter and Kevin Fletcher) on time.

The deals Besiktas has offered Williams and Bryant include an out clause permitting the players to return immediately to the NBA once the lockout is lifted.

Marc Stein is a senior NBA writer for ESPN.com.

looks like its not completely out of the question

DeS
07-21-2011, 04:50 PM
According to latest news, Kobe Bryant is going to Besiktas...Kind of Besiktas found finances and the team will pay 300.000$ per month and Turkish airlines will pay the rest (700.000$)

dal9
08-05-2011, 11:04 PM
Blazers pick Diebler signs 1-yr deal with Greek team. Unlike Moore's contract, no opt out.

dal9
08-06-2011, 04:27 PM
Jon Leuer, Bucks 2nd Rounder, to German team, with opt out clause (same agent as E'twaun).

dal9
08-06-2011, 11:15 PM
summary of those signed so far, with contracts/teams.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/08/03/overseas/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_bf3_a2
author unknown (SI.com)


Jeff Adrien
Old Team: Golden State Warriors (free agent) | Position: SF
New Team: Benetton Treviso (Italy) | Reported Deal: One year, with opt-out clause


David Andersen
Old Team: New Orleans Hornets | Position: F-C
New Team: Montepaschi Siena (Italy) | Reported Deal: Three years, no opt-out


Hilton Armstrong
Old Team: Atlanta Hawks (free agent) | Position: F-C
New Team: ASVEL Villeurbanne (France) | Reported Deal: One year, no opt-out


Nicolas Batum
Old Team: Portland Trail Plazers | Position: G-F
New Team: SLUC Nancy (France) | Reported Deal: One year, with opt-out


Trevor Booker
Old Team: Washington Wizards | Position: PF
New Team: Bnei Hasharon (Israel) | Reported Deal: One year, with opt-out


Jon Diebler
Old Team: Portland Trail Blazers | Position: SG
New Team: Panionios (Greece) | Reported Deal: One year, no opt-out


Jordan Farmar
Old Team: New Jersey Nets | Position: PG
New Team: Maccabi Tel-Aviv (Israel) | Reported Deal: One year, with opt-out


Trey Johnson
Old Team: Los Angeles Lakers | Position: SG
New Team: Teramo (Italy) | Reported Deal: One year, no opt-out


Nenad Krstic
Old Team: Boston Celtics (free agent) | Position: C
New Team: CSKA Moscow (Russia) | Reported Deal: Two years, no opt-out


Acie Law
Old Team: Golden State Warriors (free agent) | Position: PG
New Team: Partizan Belgrade (Serbia) | Reported Deal: One year, no opt-out


Jon Leuer
Old Team: Milwaukee Bucks | Position: F
New Team: Skyliners Frankfurt (Germany) | Reported Deal: One year, with opt-out


E'Twaun Moore
Old Team: Boston Celtics | Position: G
New Team: Benetton Treviso (Italy) | Reported Deal: One year, with opt-out


Timofey Mozgov
Old Team: Denver Nuggets | Position: C
New Team: Khimki Moscow (Russia) | Reported Deal: One year, with opt-out


Chris Quinn
Old Team: San Antonio Spurs (free agent) | Position: G
New Team: Khimki Moscow (Russia) | Reported Deal: One year, no opt-out


Mustafa Shakur
Old Team: Washington Wizards (free agent) | Position: PG
New Team: Pau-Orthez (France) | Reported Deal: One year, no opt-out


Darius Songaila
Old Team: Philadelphia 76ers (free agent) | Position: F-C
New Team: Galatasaray (Turkey) | Reported Deal: One year, no opt-out


DaJuan Summers
Old Team: Detroit Pistons (free agent) | Position: F
New Team: Montepaschi Siena (Italy) | Reported Deal: Two years, opt-out after one


Garett Temple
Old Team: Charlotte Bobcats (free agent) | Position: G
New Team: Casale (Italy) | Reported Deal: One year, no opt-out


Sasha Vujacic
Old Team: New Jersey Nets (free agent) | Position: SG
New Team: Anadolu Efes (Turkey) | Reported Deal: One year, no opt-out


Von Wafer
Old Team: Boston Celtics (free agent) | Position: G
New Team: Venoli Cremona (Italy) | Reported Deal: One year, with opt-out


Sonny Weems
Old Team: Toronto Raptors (restricted free agent) | Position: G-F
New Team: Zalgiris Kaunas (Lithuania) | Reported Deal: One year, no opt-out


Deron Williams
Old Team: New Jersey Nets | Position: PG
New Team: Besiktas (Turkey) | Reported Deal: One year, with opt-out


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/08/03/overseas/index.html#ixzz1UJEpd9jJ

the NBA cannot survive the loss of Timofey Mozgorov. Thank God for the opt out clause/

Lance George
11-29-2011, 09:30 PM
He's getting his number retired...

Besiktas retires Deron Williams' jersey - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7295220/besiktas-retires-deron-williams-jersey)


Besiktas retired Deron Williams (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2798/deron-williams)' No. 8 jersey as part of a farewell ceremony prior to Tuesday's game.

Williams played about a month-and-a-half with the Turkish League after signing a contract with Besiktas in July. But with the 149-day NBA lockout over and training camp slated to begin on Dec. 9, Williams will be returning to New Jersey and rejoining the Nets for the start of the shortened 2011-12 season.

"Amazing Besiktas jersey retirement ceremony before tonight's game," Williams tweeted, along with a video of the ceremony, which was posted on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DnEXB132Nk).

"Just had a great time with the fans for the last time at Besiktas Milingaz! Arena taking the team out for dinner! I'm going to miss them ..."

Williams didn't play in Tuesday's game. But he recently scored 50 points for Besiktas -- the first time he scored that many points in a game at any level of basketball.

"The best part about the game was how the fans really got into it," Williams told ESPN NewYork.com. "You could tell that once I had 40 with like three minutes left they were counting. Every time I would score, you could see the excitement in the gym. You could tell they wanted me to get 50.

"My teammates were into it too. Every time I came to the bench, my teammate Mehmet 'Memo' Yagmur was like, 'six more,' then 'four more,' and 'two more.'"

Williams said his surgically repaired right shooting wrist is feeling much better. His health was certainly a concern heading into the offseason.

"I don't want to jinx myself -- knock on wood -- but my wrist is so much better from where it was the last year and a half," Williams said.

"It was just so frustrating to me because I was told that all I needed to do was rest it, and when I did that, it never got better. I'm happy I had the surgery when I did, so now I don't have to worry about it and that's allowed me to play my game."

According to eurobasket.com, Williams averaged 19.7 points and 6.4 assists per game while overseas.

The star point guard became the first major NBA star to ink a deal with a professional club overseas as a result of the lockout.

Once he returns to the United States, speculation about Williams' future will begin to swirl. He's under contract for this season, but can opt out of the final one-year and $17.8 million of his deal prior to the start of the 2012-13 campaign.
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ballism
11-30-2011, 12:58 PM
He's getting his number retired...

Besiktas retires Deron Williams' jersey - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7295220/besiktas-retires-deron-williams-jersey)


<object height="315" width="420">
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7DnEXB132Nk?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="315" width="420"></object>

hilarious