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View Full Version : On The Block: Who Should Be Ready to Move?



90'sNBARocked
07-04-2011, 06:32 PM
OK, it's a lockout.

Still life goes on and at some point there will be resolution. As long as that's before the season is lost, eventually there will be a free agency period and a trade deadline.

The rules may change but all we have today is what we know already.

So with that said, which players will be on the trade block once the NBA resumes?

Andre Iguodala (Marreese Speights & Elton Brand) - The Philadelphia 76ers are putting together a nice young core of players but Iguodala has just been around too long. He's paid like a star but in Philadelphia he's just a strong second or third guy.

He'd like to move. The Sixers know this and they'd like to oblige but it's just a matter of finding the right return. It's not just salary relief they're looking for but another piece to go with players like Jrue Holiday, Evan Turner and Thaddeus Young (a restricted free agent they intend to keep).

The problem is they don't have much size even with draftee Nikola Vucevic and Spencer Hawes (also restricted).

Lamar Odom, Chris Kaman and Monta Ellis have been linked to the Sixers for Iguodala.

Also available, based on age and salary, would be Elton Brand but Philadelphia may wait a year when Elton will be an $18.1 million expiring contract.

Marresse Speights has yet to develop into a two-way player and can be had as well.

Lamar Odom (Luke Walton & Steve Blake) - The Lakers don't feel like they have to make a move but they'll explore options for Odom. The team is committed to the Andrew Bynum/Pau Gasol tandem. It's a lot easier to find a reserve big man or two than an impact player on the perimeter (if they can find one for Lamar).

Iguodala makes a lot of sense as a defender and play-maker.

With Darius Morris dropping to the second round, the Lakers may sit with the point guards they have in Derek Fisher, Steve Blake and Morris.

Odom is coming off of one of his best seasons as Sixth Man of the Year. At $8.2 million for the coming season and only $2.4 million of his $8.2 million guaranteed the next year, this may be the best time to get value for him.

Luke Walton, albeit with a 7.5% trade kicker, is someone the Lakers wouldn't mind including in a deal. If a point guard comes back, Steve Blake's contract might need to go out.

Of course L.A. may want to save the Odom contract as part of any significant trade that may come up, should a superstar try to force his way out West (like how Carmelo Anthony got himself to the New York Knicks). The new CBA may impact the Lakers' chances in a positive or negative way.

Chris Kaman (Ryan Gomes) - The Los Angeles Clippers are looking for another piece to help Blake Griffin and Eric Gordon lead the team to the playoffs. If they can land a true star, they'll deal their unprotected 2012 Minnesota pick but barring that, Kaman may be their best bait.

Kaman as the core piece, given his injury history this past season, wasn't enough to entice the Sixers pre-lockout.

The team is happy with Mo Williams and expects to bring back DeAndre Jordan, but that small forward spot is wide open.

It was just a couple of years ago Chris was an All-Star. He's on the last year of his deal at $12.7 million.

Kaman may start the season with the Clippers but don't be surprised if he's moved before the deadline (if we get that far).

Gomes is the expendable piece L.A. would offer out as contract filler if need be.

Monta Ellis (Andris Biedrins, David Lee & Charlie Bell) - New ownership and management, especially Jerry West, opens the door to just about anything with the Warriors.

New head coach Mark Jackson insists the team can win with the smaller, slighter backcourt of Stephen Curry and Ellis. Nonetheless, Ellis has been shopped and will continue to be shopped once player movement opens back up. Don't look for Monta to go in any sort of salary dump. The Warriors want quality and size back (even if that's size on the perimeter).

Also available is Biedrins who is coming off a terrible year but Golden State doesn't want to just take back junk in return.

Bell is an easy piece to throw into a deal with his expiring $4.1 million contract. It wouldn't be a shocker if Lee became available although his contract might scare off prospective suitors.

If Golden State was hesitant in the past to make drastic decisions, West will willingly step into that role.

Josh Smith (Marvin Williams) - The Hawks have been competitive the past few years with Smith a big part of why but he'd welcome a change.

The Hawks can move Al Horford to his more natural position at four if they can land a five with more size. Smith only has a couple of seasons left at $12.5 million and $13.3 million.

There may not be a compelling reason just yet for the Hawks to do it but Smith can be a bit prickly. If the right opportunity comes along, Atlanta will shake it up.

Jameer Nelson (Gilbert Arenas, Hedo Turkoglu, J.J. Redick, Brandon Bass, Chris Duhon, Quentin Richardson, Ryan Anderson, etc.) - Basically anyone but Dwight Howard.

The time may come when the Magic may lose Howard but before they embrace that notion, they'll do whatever they can to put a team around him.

Nelson is probably the most attractive piece at just $7.8 million this coming season and next (player option on the last year).

Bass is a low-paid power forward with some post game. Anderson is a cheap stretch four.

The Magic might want to trade Arenas or Turkoglu to get out of those contracts but that might be difficult because of those same contracts.

Michael Beasley (Martell Webster, Darko Milicic, Nikola Pekovic, Luke Ridnour, Brad Miller, Anthony Randolph, etc.) - Basically at this point, anyone but Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio, Wesley Johnson and Derrick Williams. Beasley was shopped, along with the #2 pick before it became Williams heading into the draft.

The Wolves won 17 games last year. They don't have a first-round pick in 2012. The Rubio era must be a hit for General Manager David Kahn to survive his post.

This is a GM and a team willing to deal.

Boris Diaw (Corey Maggette, DeSagana Diop, Matt Carroll, Eduardo Najera & D.J. Augustin) - The Bobcats are another team that needs a serious overhaul.

Draft picks Kemba Walker and Bismack Biyombo were nice gets but there's really not much on the roster to play with.

Diaw is in the last year of his deal at $9 million.

O.J. Mayo - The Grizzlies tried to trade Mayo at the deadline but didn't get the deal into the league in time. When Rudy Gay went down with a season-ending shoulder injury, Mayo stepped in and helped Memphis make a surprising playoff run. O.J. will make $5.6 million this season before hitting restricted free agency (barring changes to the system).

The Grizzlies don't really have anyone to dump with Mayo, so they'd be looking for value back in return.

The bigger question will be Gay. Once the team retains Marc Gasol (restricted) as they expect, will the budget allow for Zach Randolph, Mike Conley, Gasol and Gay?

The team did pretty well without him. Some NBA executives believe Gay will eventually end up on the block.

Brandon Rush (James Posey & Dahntay Jones) - The Pacers are buyers with cap room and a roster they believe is improving. A number of teams would love to get Danny Granger but the word out of Indiana is he won't be dealt.
Rush is a decent, still-young player who has shown flashes on both sides of the ball but has yet to put it together night after night. Posey is a $7.6 million expiring contract and Jones is a cheap $2.7 and $2.9 million the next two.

There have been some whispers Roy Hibbert is available for the right price but the Pacers deny that.

If the team can add David West in free agency and make another move via trade, that's a solid group in the East with Granger, Hibbert, Tyler Hansbrough Darren Collison, Paul George and the recently acquired George Hill.

Rashard Lewis (Andray Blatche) - Lewis makes too much and isn't part of Washington's future. Some believe the Wizards have buyer's remorse on the extension they gave Blatche.

Rip Hamilton (Jason Maxiell, Ben Gordon & Charlie Villanueva) - "Please take Rip," signed the Pistons.

Maxiell is definitely available as well. With Gordon and Villanueva, the signings have yet to bear real fruit.

Vince Carter (Robin Lopez, Hakim Warrick, Mickael Pietrus, Josh Childress) - Carter's $18.3 million is only $4 million guaranteed. The Suns and Vince agreed to wait on the decision until right before the start of the season. That gives Phoenix the chance to try and trade him.

Lopez is a decent big coming off of a down season. Pietrus is $5.3 million in the last year of his contract.

Childress was a mistake and his contract still has $27 million on it. Warrick can be had as well.

Antawn Jamison & Baron Davis (Ramon Sessions & Daniel Gibson) - The Cavs want to get the rebuild going and if Jamison's $15.1 million expiring contract can help, then so be it.

Davis was acquired from the Clippers along with L.A's 2011 draft pick and that paid off well. Kyrie Irving makes Baron expendable if Cleveland can find a taker.

Sessions is on the block as well and to a lesser extent, Gibson. The Cavs won't trade three point guards but they'd happily do one or two.

Ray Allen - The Celtics traded Kendrick Perkins midseason to the surprise of many. They may keep the core together for one last try, minus Perkins but don't be surprised if Allen is the bait Boston uses to continue the youth movement.

Brandon Jennings (Drew Gooden) - There was some buzz Jennings was available and that was before Milwaukee acquired Shaun Livingston, Beno Udrih and Stephen Jackson. If they do shop him, expect the price to be high and for the Bucks to try and pawn off Gooden in the deal.

Carlos Boozer - The Chicago Bulls weren't overwhelmed with what Boozer brought them this past season but he's likely to be with the Bulls another year barring a tremendous offer.

Jose Calderon (Leandro Barbosa) - The Raptors want to become a force defensively but neither Calderon nor Barbosa do much on that front. The trick is Toronto getting a starting caliber point guard to replace Calderon . . . not easy to do.

Tony Parker (Richard Jefferson) - Given the Spurs traded George Hill, Parker may be off the block. If a team will take Jefferson with Tony with some quality youth coming back, San Antonio may be willing to talk as the post-Tim Duncan era is nearly upon them.

Some other players teams aren't necessarily committed to: Brendan Haywood, Al Harrington, Travis Outlaw, Marcus Camby, Jason Thompson and Mike Miller.

Also, keep an eye on the Houston Rockets who may be willing to deal Kevin Martin and pieces like Hasheem Thabeet, Goran Dragic & Jordan Hill.

The Utah Jazz have a bit too much up front with Paul Millsap, Al Jefferson and Mehmet Okur. Okur is very available at $10.9 million on an expiring deal. Millsap would be appealing to a number of teams.

The Jazz also have Derrick Favors and draft pick Enes Kanter. There's just not enough minutes to go around if the team can stay healthy.

Devin Harris may also be available but Utah doesn't have much else at the point.

Amnesty/Hard Cap

One more note: if there's another amnesty clause that allows for teams to waive a player with luxury tax and/or salary cap considerations, some of the available players could end up free agents.

If a hard or flex cap is agreed to in some form, the high payroll teams may need to start planning for payroll trimming. That too could impact who becomes available and for what.

Perhaps Kwame Brown is an expiring somewhere, maybe the Lakers need to deal away Pau Gasol?

Clearly that's in jest.

Even through resolution is far away, a hard cap that severe is probably not something we'll see.

Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=20328#ixzz1RB8F08Fh

Psyren
07-04-2011, 07:00 PM
Thanks for the post, it's nice to read.

Although it's no surprise Brandon should be preparing to go.

I personally can't wait for the day he's gone.

Hicks
07-04-2011, 07:21 PM
I wonder how Rush would do if he played most of his minutes at the 3? I don't see why he couldn't do the same things he does now; he's long and seems to be pretty strong, so I don't think it would make much of a difference.

My thinking is a guy who generally plays good D and can hit long shots is a useful roleplayer to have on one's bench, so why not keep him around since he's cheap and let him be Danny's backup, allowing the backup 2 to be shared between George Hill and Dahntay Jones?

He may not be a "big piece" to the team's core, but that doesn't mean we necessarily need to punt on him, either. Not unless he 1) Gets in trouble for weed again or 2) Demands more money than he's worth once he's a free agent.

OakMoses
07-04-2011, 07:27 PM
I can't think of a single better thing that could happen to the Pacers than someone offering us "the right price" for Hibbert.

OakMoses
07-04-2011, 07:34 PM
I wonder how Rush would do if he played most of his minutes at the 3? I don't see why he couldn't do the same things he does now; he's long and seems to be pretty strong, so I don't think it would make much of a difference.


Most nights it wouldn't be a big deal, but Rush can't guard big 3's in the post. Guys like Melo, Deng, Artest, etc. eat him alive down there.

If we stick with our current wings, I'd really like to see Granger and George play all 48 minutes at the 3 with either Rush or Jones or Stephenson picking up the scrap minutes left at the 2.

Hicks
07-04-2011, 07:49 PM
Most nights it wouldn't be a big deal, but Rush can't guard big 3's in the post. Guys like Melo, Deng, Artest, etc. eat him alive down there.

But in this scenario he's only going to be the BACKUP 3, so do we really care that such a weakness exists? It's not like every rotation player has no holes in their game.

ECKrueger
07-04-2011, 07:51 PM
I don't get how we overpaid for DJ originally, but now he has a cheap contract.

Also, I like Rush staying here, although it does not seem he will. It would be nice to get something back for him though.

Ozwalt72
07-04-2011, 07:52 PM
I don't get how we overpaid for DJ originally, but now he has a cheap contract.

Also, I like Rush staying here, although it does not seem he will. It would be nice to get something back for him though.

If we messed up in the Jones contract, it would be the duration, not the price tag.

Hicks
07-04-2011, 07:53 PM
I don't get how we overpaid for DJ originally, but now he has a cheap contract.

It's because we never overpaid him to begin with AFAIC.

PR07
07-04-2011, 08:03 PM
Agreed on Rush. He's still a useful rotational player despite his shortcomings. I wouldn't just give him away.

Mikey85
07-04-2011, 08:09 PM
I'm pretty convinced that Posey was only brought here to be trade bait at the deadline this year anyway(expiring contract). I expect to see his expiring deal shopped with a now expendable guard.

I'd rather see Jones go than Rush. Rush can be a great player, but its always seemed to me that he's had confidence issues in the NBA(J.O.B. maybe? I guess we will see this season).

Steagles
07-04-2011, 08:52 PM
Just about every Laker fan wants Rush. I think we should try to ship him there and get as much out of him as possible if the Lakers management want him too.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

pacer4ever
07-04-2011, 08:56 PM
I'm pretty convinced that Posey was only brought here to be trade bait at the deadline this year anyway(expiring contract). I expect to see his expiring deal shopped with a now expendable guard.

I'd rather see Jones go than Rush. Rush can be a great player, but its always seemed to me that he's had confidence issues in the NBA(J.O.B. maybe? I guess we will see this season).

Posey was brought here so NO would accept the trade and get cap relief. We didnt want Posey but he was the price to get DC2

joew8302
07-04-2011, 08:59 PM
I am sorry, I think Hibbert is available. Much like what you guys have said about Rush, we wouldn't just give him away, but his rebounding and defense is not ideally what you want from a guy his size. He is also extremely inconsistent.

Hibbert has his positives, but he is FAR from untouchable IMO.

ECKrueger
07-04-2011, 09:44 PM
It's because we never overpaid him to begin with AFAIC.

This is what I was referring to:


http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/27361

Adam (St. Louis)
John -- Any thoughts on the Pacers' acquisition of Dahntay Jones? Nice addition but a little overpaid at 4yr 11mil?
John Hollinger
(3:10 PM)
Ridiculous contract, this year's Eduardo Najera. What makes it worse is Indy was already in danger of being a tax team next year, even before paying Jarret Jack, and the Pacers already had a stopper-in-training with Brandon Rush.

In the first Jones thread there were several posts such as these claiming we overpaid for him.

CooperManning
07-04-2011, 09:50 PM
Just about every Laker fan wants Rush. I think we should try to ship him there and get as much out of him as possible if the Lakers management want him too.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

I'd probably trade Rush for Darius Morris. No idea if the Lakers would be interested. I would even do Rush for their trade exception and then AJ for Morris. Might sound crazy to give up Rush and AJ for a second rounder, but I like Morris. Was one of the best steals of the drafts. I'm glad the Lakers took him at #41, because if he had of fallen to #42 I'd be more upset about giving our pick to the Spurs.

pacer4ever
07-04-2011, 09:57 PM
I'd probably trade Rush for Darius Morris. No idea if the Lakers would be interested. I would even do Rush for their trade exception and then AJ for Morris. Might sound crazy to give up Rush and AJ for a second rounder, but I like Morris. Was one of the best steals of the drafts. I'm glad the Lakers took him at #41, because if he had of fallen to #42 I'd be more upset about giving our pick to the Spurs.

The Spurs should of taken him at #29 IMO. I am not one to doubt the Spurs but Corey Joseph out of Texas was a reach IMO. I had him almost going undrafted boy was i wrong lol.

Sookie
07-04-2011, 10:10 PM
The Spurs should of taken him at #29 IMO. I am not one to doubt the Spurs but Corey Joseph out of Texas was a reach IMO. I had him almost going undrafted boy was i wrong lol.

The funny thing is, with them talking about a "package trade" with Indiana, I assumed it was probably going to be Price and the 15, considering the Spurs lack of point guard.

That didn't happen, and I've seen Corey Joseph play like once (and uh..Kemba ate him for dinner), so I don't know if it's true or not, but I've seen a lot of NBA comparisons that literally said "poor man's AJ Price" ... I LOl'd But San Antonio is pretty good with their drafting..so..who knows.

pacer4ever
07-04-2011, 10:16 PM
The funny thing is, with them talking about a "package trade" with Indiana, I assumed it was probably going to be Price and the 15, considering the Spurs lack of point guard.

That didn't happen, and I've seen Corey Joseph play like once (and uh..Kemba ate him for dinner), so I don't know if it's true or not, but I've seen a lot of NBA comparisons that literally said "poor man's AJ Price" ... I LOl'd But San Antonio is pretty good with their drafting..so..who knows.

I have seen him play a lot and he wont make it in the league IMO. He is a decent defender and decent play maker but that is about it. He cant shoot very well he cant score and more importantly he isnt a very good pentator IMO. He had so much talent around him and made a lot of poor decisions with the basketball. But who know what he can become if it was about any other team I would say it was crazy. But the Spurs normally spot good talent. I still say he will just be a backup at best and even that is a stretch in my mind. I still have that game on my DVR and the only guy i liked on Texas was Jordan Hamilton. He needs a lot of coaching but he flat out can score the basketball

SMosley21
07-04-2011, 10:28 PM
I'll say the same thing now as I did when we first signed Dahntay. I absolutely positively feel that in no way did we overpay for Dahntay.

oz_pacer
07-04-2011, 10:29 PM
is lamar odom the power forward we've been looking for how do we get him posey rush and a 1st rounder?

pacer4ever
07-04-2011, 10:30 PM
is lamar odom the power forward we've been looking for how do we get him posey rush and a 1st rounder?

i want no part of Odom. I wouldn't trade a 2012 draft pick right now. (unless we get a young core player with upside) That pick is gonna be valuable might be the best draft since 03 IMO and it is crazy deep.

Pacer Fan
07-04-2011, 10:41 PM
If Lakers wouldn't do Rush for Morris. I'd take Rush for Ebanks.

Pacer Fan
07-04-2011, 10:44 PM
Better yet, Rush & Price for Morris & Ebanks.

pacer4ever
07-04-2011, 10:50 PM
Better yet, Rush & Price for Morris & Ebanks.

Brian Shaw and Ebanks are very close it seemed. When they came to Indy they had a 3pt shoot out Shaw smoked Ebanks.

I dont want to trade Rush he is a good role player. But this would make me think. Ebanks has crazy defensive potential but is a lost offensive player and I really like Darius Morris.

Pacer Fan
07-04-2011, 10:59 PM
Brian Shaw and Ebanks are very close it seemed. When they came to Indy they had a 3pt shoot out Shaw smoked Ebanks.

I dont want to trade Rush he is a good role player. But this would make me think. Ebanks has crazy defensive potential but is a lost offensive player and I really like Darius Morris.

I don't think Ebanks is lost, I thought he done pretty good when I have saw him. He just needs some more time and sure up his jump shot. He is like 20 or 21 yrs old.

Pacer Fan
07-04-2011, 11:09 PM
I think moving Hibbert would be crazy. To me he has to much potential still. If a trade was to bring in a Center, better be a damn good one. Like Howard or D. Howard, Or Dwight Howard or Superman Howard.

Eleazar
07-04-2011, 11:43 PM
I think moving Hibbert would be crazy. To me he has to much potential still. If a trade was to bring in a Center, better be a damn good one. Like Howard or D. Howard, Or Dwight Howard or Superman Howard.

I think Hibbert is in a similar situation as Granger. They might listen to trades, but unless we are getting someone at his position back that is just as good as him he isn't going to be traded. So for all intents and purposes he isn't going to be traded.

A.B.Hollywood
07-05-2011, 12:19 AM
I don't think Ebanks is lost, I thought he done pretty good when I have saw him. He just needs some more time and sure up his jump shot. He is like 20 or 21 yrs old.

As a Hoosier fan I followed Ebanks right after he committed (but then of course left with the Sampson debacle). He's intriguing to me for sure. I actually think he has a ton of potential if in the right system.

In regards to Rush though I'd rather trade him for any 1st round pick in 2012. I think there will be teams at the end of the draft that will be interested in this and even at 25+ we still get excellent value IMO.

A.B.Hollywood
07-05-2011, 12:24 AM
I think Hibbert is in a similar situation as Granger. They might listen to trades, but unless we are getting someone at his position back that is just as good as him he isn't going to be traded. So for all intents and purposes he isn't going to be traded.

Trading Hibbert for a Center is just dumb IMO. The whole reason you even *consider* trading Hibbert is because so many teams will overvalue a true young Center with potential and in turn will overpay for him.

i.e. Josh Smith in Atlanta

imawhat
07-05-2011, 01:32 AM
I wonder how Rush would do if he played most of his minutes at the 3? I don't see why he couldn't do the same things he does now; he's long and seems to be pretty strong, so I don't think it would make much of a difference.

My thinking is a guy who generally plays good D and can hit long shots is a useful roleplayer to have on one's bench, so why not keep him around since he's cheap and let him be Danny's backup, allowing the backup 2 to be shared between George Hill and Dahntay Jones?

He may not be a "big piece" to the team's core, but that doesn't mean we necessarily need to punt on him, either. Not unless he 1) Gets in trouble for weed again or 2) Demands more money than he's worth once he's a free agent.

I think he's a good role player but there's probably more to the story. He must be doing something behind the scenes for us to want to trade him.

Eleazar
07-05-2011, 02:06 AM
Most nights it wouldn't be a big deal, but Rush can't guard big 3's in the post. Guys like Melo, Deng, Artest, etc. eat him alive down there.

If we stick with our current wings, I'd really like to see Granger and George play all 48 minutes at the 3 with either Rush or Jones or Stephenson picking up the scrap minutes left at the 2.

Yeah I don't think it would be a good idea to have him guard bigger SF's who are strong in the post, but if we are playing against more wing oriented SF's I think he would do well.

CooperManning
07-05-2011, 02:10 AM
I think he's a good role player but there's probably more to the story. He must be doing something behind the scenes for us to want to trade him.

I think it mainly has to do with not having enough wing minutes to go around. There's just really not minutes for both Rush and Dahntay. Since Dahntay has basically no trade value, Rush is the odd man out. I like the guy, but I wouldn't hesitate to trade him for a young backup upgrade at another position.

Kraft
07-05-2011, 03:18 AM
I wonder how Rush would do if he played most of his minutes at the 3? I don't see why he couldn't do the same things he does now; he's long and seems to be pretty strong, so I don't think it would make much of a difference.

My thinking is a guy who generally plays good D and can hit long shots is a useful roleplayer to have on one's bench, so why not keep him around since he's cheap and let him be Danny's backup, allowing the backup 2 to be shared between George Hill and Dahntay Jones?

He may not be a "big piece" to the team's core, but that doesn't mean we necessarily need to punt on him, either. Not unless he 1) Gets in trouble for weed again or 2) Demands more money than he's worth once he's a free agent.

I want to feel this way, too, but here's the problem in my mind. The Pacers still need another scoring wing. Rush isn't it. Jones isn't it consistently. Hill is going to spend a lot of time at the point.

So by my rationale only, that leaves Jones and Rush as wings Nos. 4 and 5. And I don't think you can pay wing No. 5 nearly $3M when you have other needs. I like Dahntay Jones more ... more intensity, more intangibles.

Same type of rationale for me to jettison A.J. Price. Collison starts. Hill gets half his minutes at the one when Collison isn't on the court. Stephenson gets the slop minutes.

That leaves A.J. Price making an unguaranteed $800K as a fourth PG. So trade him for a future second and let another team cut him for cap savings.

Of course, a lot of this is moot if there isn't a season. But it's July, and we're bored.

EDIT: I think on the very remote chance there is an actual offseason, the poo-poo platter of Posey (last year of deal), Rush (last year of deal, can contribute) and Price (insta-savings) could be worthwhile for a team that has to shave some payroll to get under whatever the two sides agree on. There's got to be a team out there that has a scoring wing or serviceable center available.

BKK
07-05-2011, 04:07 AM
This list made me think too many stupid contracts have been handed the last few years... And we are kinda paying for it now. Both players and owners definitely have their responsibilities in this matter.

Hicks
07-05-2011, 10:10 AM
I guess I'm of the assumption that George Hill will see more time at the 2, and also that Paul George's offense will begin to blossom.

naptownmenace
07-05-2011, 10:12 AM
I'll say the same thing now as I did when we first signed Dahntay. I absolutely positively feel that in no way did we overpay for Dahntay.

I was also one of the few that felt that Dhantay's deal was reasonable. I think the 4th season has team option too but even if it doesn't I don't have a problem with his deal.

I think he earned his money with his solid play against the Bulls in the playoffs.

xtacy
07-05-2011, 10:20 AM
Both players and owners definitely have their responsibilities in this matter.

how can we blame players for getting paid too much? if someone overpays you, you take the money you don't say i don't deserve this give me less.

Justin Tyme
07-05-2011, 11:03 AM
I'm pretty convinced that Posey was only brought here to be trade bait at the deadline this year anyway(expiring contract). I expect to see his expiring deal shopped with a now expendable guard.

I'd rather see Jones go than Rush. Rush can be a great player, but its always seemed to me that he's had confidence issues in the NBA(J.O.B. maybe? I guess we will see this season).


OR Bird saw only having to pay the rest of Posey's 011-012 contract and half to none of his 012-013 due to the lockout. To me that's more reasonable as I just don't feel Bird felt that he took on Posey, b/c he could trade his expiring. That's a huge assumption when 5 Pacers contracts just expired without being traded.

Rush=Inconsistancy. Rush had half a season under Vogel to show something and didn't, while Dahntay, after being in Jimmy's doghouse all season, took advantage of his opportunity to play under Vogel. I'd rather keep Dahntay than Rush, but I wouldn't be upset if both were traded for better assets. It would relieve the amount of wings the Pacers currently have. IF it came down to one or the other being Granger's b/u, I'd rather go with Dahntay.

Justin Tyme
07-05-2011, 11:09 AM
The funny thing is, with them talking about a "package trade" with Indiana, I assumed it was probably going to be Price and the 15, considering the Spurs lack of point guard.

That didn't happen, and I've seen Corey Joseph play like once (and uh..Kemba ate him for dinner), so I don't know if it's true or not, but I've seen a lot of NBA comparisons that literally said "poor man's AJ Price" ... I LOl'd But San Antonio is pretty good with their drafting..so..who knows.


IIRC, he was a T-Bird sleeper.

Kraft
07-05-2011, 12:42 PM
I am pretty sure Bird took on Posey to get Darren Collison. Pretty straightforward.

Pacers4Life
07-05-2011, 05:28 PM
Im simply baffled by the people who still think Rush is worth anything to us. We have Paul George Hill, DG, and DJones and Lance I guess. Did anyone see Inferno's playoff performance? Better question: Do you remember Brandons? I have his jersey.. And I'm ready to ship him off for peanuts if they offer them. PleAse give me more Dhantay Jones.. Dudes tenacious.. As opposed to timid.

LA_Confidential
07-05-2011, 07:26 PM
I would much rather trade Dahntay than Rush. Rush may have confidence isseues from time to time but when he's on, he's on. Brian Shaw might be just what the Doctor ordered.

Dahnty on the other hand doesnt lack any confidence offensively and sadly thats the problem. He is a black hole on O but doesnt possess the skills to be that.

Hibbert
07-05-2011, 07:35 PM
Trade for Darko. Really.

ECKrueger
07-05-2011, 07:48 PM
I would much rather trade Dahntay than Rush. Rush may have confidence isseues from time to time but when he's on, he's on. Brian Shaw might be just what the Doctor ordered.

Dahnty on the other hand doesnt lack any confidence offensively and sadly thats the problem. He is a black hole on O but doesnt possess the skills to be that.

If only we could combine them. Then we'd have an averagely aggressive offensive player with incredible defense.

I still want both for the record.

Eleazar
07-05-2011, 09:07 PM
Better question: Do you remember Brandons?

Yes, and in the little time he did play he played rather well. The reason Brandon didn't play more had to do more with match-up than because he played poorly in the time he got. There were a couple of times he came up absolutely huge on defense. He absolutely smothered Korver at the end of one game, and in another game he played defense in the post against Boozer like he had Foster on the back of his jersey when the defense broke down.

Don't act like he didn't play well just because he didn't get a lot of playing time.

CableKC
07-05-2011, 09:39 PM
Trade for Darko. Really.
I'm not sure if you are joking or not....but I'd be okay with getting Darko as a Backup Center .... assuming that the price is right. He's a decent Backup Center that can block shots and is supposed to be a somewhat solid Defender in the low post.

spreedom
07-05-2011, 10:05 PM
Really, how does anyone still see anything in Rush?

spreedom
07-05-2011, 10:07 PM
Trade for Darko. Really.


I'm not sure if you are joking or not....but I'd be okay with getting Darko as a Backup Center .... assuming that the price is right. He's a decent Backup Center that can block shots and is supposed to be a somewhat solid Defender in the low post.


Darko is above-average defensively, completely inept offensively, and an outstanding shotblocker. The only thing that he does exceptional well is the shotblocking. But you could get worse from your backup... though you'd want better if you're paying him $5M per.

speakout4
07-05-2011, 10:17 PM
I would much rather trade Dahntay than Rush. Rush may have confidence isseues from time to time but when he's on, he's on. Brian Shaw might be just what the Doctor ordered.

Dahnty on the other hand doesnt lack any confidence offensively and sadly thats the problem. He is a black hole on O but doesnt possess the skills to be that.
You think Brandon lacks confidence in himself? No it is the Pacers who lack confidence in Brandon. Brandon is much more the dark hole because you have no idea whether the guy will come to play that game or not.

CableKC
07-05-2011, 11:46 PM
Really, how does anyone still see anything in Rush?
Yes, I still see him as what he has turned out to be.....a "stand in the corner and wait for the ball to be passed to him" 3pt shooter that is a very solid perimeter defender.

I won't complain if he's still on the roster at the end of the next season's trade deadline cuz I think that he's still a solid rotational Player that can help the Team ( even more then what he does now if he pulled his head out of his "you know what" from time to time and not be as passive as he can be at time ) or any Team that he is moved to. BTW....If you were expecting a high quality Starting SG at whatever spot we drafted him at....then I'd point you to count55 thread on "what to expect from drafting in the early teens"....he turned out to be a "decent to solid" 7th to 8th rotational Wingman....which is pretty much what you can expect from a 11th or 13th pick ( I forget which one he was )....that did help us at times over the last couple of seasons.

I do not doubt that he is now expendable and that Bird wouldn't blink twice if he was included as "useful filler"....but just because he didn't turn out to be the Starting SG that Bird and many of us hoped he would be when we drafted him...it doesn't mean that he's a useless Player on the roster just because he has made stupid mistakes that were clearly bad PR-wise for the Pacers. Thankfully, the stupid things that he's done wasn't on the level that we have seen from other PR-nightmares that the Pacers have seen before ( see Artest/Tinsley/SJax ).

As we have figured out....he is what he is....I've gotten used to what he turned out to be and think that he can help out a Team if he is put in the right situation.

CableKC
07-06-2011, 12:05 AM
Darko is above-average defensively, completely inept offensively, and an outstanding shotblocker. The only thing that he does exceptional well is the shotblocking. But you could get worse from your backup... though you'd want better if you're paying him $5M per.
I'll live with that if we could dump Posey for him. I don't mind having a defensive minded Big Man that can block shots when it comes to having a Smashmouth Frontcourt.

Hicks
07-06-2011, 12:07 AM
Trade for Darko. Really.

Just don't **** him off! :eek:

http://youtu.be/woWqSmichOo?t=21s *NSFW*

speakout4
07-07-2011, 05:58 PM
..If you were expecting a high quality Starting SG at whatever spot we drafted him at....then I'd point you to count55 thread on "what to expect from drafting in the early teens"....he turned out to be a "decent to solid" 7th to 8th rotational Wingman....which is pretty much what you can expect from a 11th or 13th pick ( I forget which one he was )....that did help us at times over the last couple of seasons.
As we have figured out....he is what he is....I've gotten used to what he turned out to be and think that he can help out a Team if he is put in the right situation.
Rush is probably the second highest pick on the team behind George so you would expect him to be the second best player. The logic that as a 11th or 13th pick he should be a 7th or 8th man off the bench is faulty since our Center and best player fell behind that. Saying that you can't expect better is just an excuse for a player who failed to meet expectations. Rush was picked 4 or 6 places ahead of Hibbert in the same draft (depending on how you count our drafting Bayless originally).

CableKC
07-07-2011, 06:21 PM
Rush is probably the second highest pick on the team behind George so you would expect him to be the second best player. The logic that as a 11th or 13th pick he should be a 7th or 8th man off the bench is faulty since our Center and best player fell behind that. Saying that you can't expect better is just an excuse for a player who failed to meet expectations. Rush was picked 4 or 6 places ahead of Hibbert in the same draft (depending on how you count our drafting Bayless originally).
All Players that are drafted have a "ceiling and floor"....what I was saying is that BRush being picked at the place he was picked.....what we see of him over the last couple of seasons suggests that BRush "panned out" to be the "floor" version and not the "ceiling" version.

Should an 11th pick Player turn out to be better then a 17th picked player?

Technically, yes....but that's in a vacuum if all things were equal. Given that Drafting Players in the NBA is not a "science"....when it comes to draft order where we are speaking of 4 to 6 spots in the draft in the Teens....it's not like Teams haven't picked a Player higher then he should have been picked and a Player being picked lower then they should have been picked.

My whole point was that I always hoped that BRush would be a high quality Starter...but he turned out to be a solid "rotational" player...which is what I expected as a "Worst Case" scenario for BRush.

spreedom
07-07-2011, 06:36 PM
There are definitely too many factors involved for someone to be able to say "Pick #13 in an average draft should only be expected to be a role player and a 7th/8th man," so in principal I disagree with anyone saying that we had higher expectations for Rush than we should have.

Can't we all just agree that his tenure here has been extremely disappointing and that he is what he is at this point?

speakout4
07-07-2011, 06:52 PM
No one is making the same arguments for Danny or Tyler or even DC who were further down in the draft. I just don't understand the excuses made particularly for Brandon while DC and sometimes Roy get roasted.