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View Full Version : Nene turned down a 4 years/50 million deal



yoadknux
07-04-2011, 09:24 AM
Sorry if already posted!


Word circulated quickly within the association's agent community that the Brazilian big man had opted for free agency rather than accept a Nuggets offer of $50 million over four years.

http://www.denverpost.com/krieger/ci_18399750

Looks like we're going to have to massively overpay him if we want him here...

Shade
07-04-2011, 09:25 AM
It all depends on the new CBA. Nene may come to regret that decision (or maybe it's not about the money so much as getting out of Denver).

Shade
07-04-2011, 09:26 AM
Personally, I'm kinda starting to hope for a season-long lock-out. I like Nene, and think he'd be a good fit here, but I would at least like to make a pitch to Dwight Howard first. You never know. :shrug:

ChristianDudley
07-04-2011, 09:35 AM
hmm...Carl Landry anyone?? David West is injured, Nene wants to be way overpaid...Carl Landry sounds good to me. lol

Shade
07-04-2011, 09:38 AM
hmm...Carl Landry anyone?? David West is injured, Nene wants to be way overpaid...Carl Landry sounds good to me. lol

You get what you pay for. :-p

wintermute
07-04-2011, 09:45 AM
Sorry if already posted!



http://www.denverpost.com/krieger/ci_18399750

Looks like we're going to have to massively overpay him if we want him here...

Yeah, it's been posted before.

But why not, it's not like there will be anything new to talk about for several months anyway :p :buddies:

yoadknux
07-04-2011, 10:03 AM
hmm...Carl Landry anyone?? David West is injured, Nene wants to be way overpaid...Carl Landry sounds good to me. lol
I don't think Carl Landry is going to make us any better :(

ECKrueger
07-04-2011, 10:11 AM
I don't think Carl Landry is going to make us any better :(

Not a lot, but he is better than McRoberts. Tyler/Carl is better than Tyler/Josh. I would rather get him than some of the other FAs

pwee31
07-04-2011, 10:59 AM
So Nene turned down $12.5 million a year. How much more does he expect to get?

I expect a team like the Warriors to make a strong push for him as well

able
07-04-2011, 11:07 AM
As long as we are out of the race I am fine with whatever he wants.

pianoman
07-04-2011, 11:44 AM
That sucks. Out of all the free agents this year, he is the one I want. Not a superstar, but if we had a healthy Nene on this team, we'd be looking at one of the top spots in the east. That team could really compete

Larry Staverman
07-04-2011, 12:25 PM
You get what you pay for. :-p


Would you say that about Dunleavy and Murphy?

Or what about Eddie Curry?

Think Herb Simon feels he got his money's worth with Tinsley?

LetsTalkPacers
07-04-2011, 12:30 PM
Would you say that about Dunleavy and Murphy?

Or what about Eddie Curry?

Think Herb Simon feels he got his money's worth with Tinsley?
Having a scapegoat to blame all your franchises problems on. Id say Herb/Mel got a bargain in Tinsleys contract.

LA_Confidential
07-04-2011, 12:47 PM
Too bad for the Nuggets. Bottom line, Bird better get him. He'll punk Noah, Boozer and Bosh and Lopez. He wont back down from KG. He will be a huge help against Dwight and he's a hell of a lot better option against Amare' than Posey.

CableKC
07-04-2011, 12:58 PM
Would you say that about Dunleavy and Murphy?

Or what about Eddie Curry?

Think Herb Simon feels he got his money's worth with Tinsley?
The FA Market for when MurphLeavy and ( to a certain extent ) Tinsley was different back when they were FA ( it was FA Seller's Market ). Whereas for Eddy Curry.....the Knicks had Zeke running the store....need we say more?
You can't compare the FA Market of yester-year BEFORE the Owners tightened their wallets to today's Market.

Infinite MAN_force
07-04-2011, 01:06 PM
I half wonder if Nene isn't destined to be the next Rashard Lewis, more famous for his albatross contract than his actual playing ability.

We are talking about a guy who has never averaged 15 PPG and is not really known as a defender or rebounder. The more I think about it the more I think he is being vasty overrated lately.

CableKC
07-04-2011, 01:09 PM
Well, he's mostly regarded as one of the top 2-3 Big Men FA this offseason add in that it's pretty much a given that we'd be overpaying ANY FA to come to Indy.....overpaying to get him...even at a price of $14 mil a season...sucks ( for us )...but a likely foregone conclusion.

LA_Confidential
07-04-2011, 01:20 PM
Nene isnt "old" but his carrer was ravaged by injury when he was yonger. Injuries from which he's seemed to bounce back from. Also he played on teams where he was maybe the 4th or even 5th option to score.

Melo, Iverson, JR Smith, Chauncy, K Mart and Camby were all scoring around him. Melo, Martin and Camby and BirdMan grabbed a ton of boards during Nene's stint in Denver as well. So 14/8 with 60%fg should not be a knock on him.

I am convinced that Nene would be our most dominant and consistant rebounder with good defense and shot blocking to boot. Throw in 60% from the field and I dont see why Bird wouldnt be all over this guy.

Mark
07-04-2011, 01:23 PM
At this point I'm just hoping for a pure rebounder that will take 5 million a year or so. Don't really know who that might be. Reggie Evans?

MillerTime
07-04-2011, 01:43 PM
It seems like hes looking for something in the range of 4 years / $60 million...ouch...I'd pass.

Tom White
07-04-2011, 01:49 PM
In my best Robin Williams/Mork from Ork voice I say -

"No-No Nene"

spazzxb
07-04-2011, 02:49 PM
Having a scapegoat to blame all your franchises problems on. Id say Herb/Mel got a bargain in Tinsleys contract.

Some fans will always create a scapegoat, there is no need to pay a penny for one.

Kegboy
07-04-2011, 03:16 PM
Well, that was dumb.

Shade
07-04-2011, 03:22 PM
What Nene wants is irrelevant until the new CBA is in place. Odds are he won't be getting what he was in Denver even, which is why his option to opt out leads me to believe he wanted out of Denver.

Kegboy
07-04-2011, 03:23 PM
What Nene wants is irrelevant until the new CBA is in place. Odds are he won't be getting what he was in Denver even, which is why his option to opt out leads me to believe he wanted out of Denver.

Yep, that's the only way it makes sense.

wintermute
07-04-2011, 03:27 PM
At this point I'm just hoping for a pure rebounder that will take 5 million a year or so. Don't really know who that might be. Reggie Evans?

Not quite a pure rebounder, but here's a cost effective guy who fits our needs:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=65633

:D

Gamble1
07-04-2011, 03:49 PM
What Nene wants is irrelevant until the new CBA is in place. Odds are he won't be getting what he was in Denver even, which is why his option to opt out leads me to believe he wanted out of Denver.
I flew in at 5:30 am today so am a bit slower than usual. Since Nene opted out does that mean he can't do a sign and trade with Denver now?

There are only a handful of teams who could even afford him. Off the top of my head, Pacers, Nets, Kings, Clippers, Nuggets. The kings are probably out since they got Hickson and the Clippers don't make sense since they have to resign their RFA.

Who am I missing?

Shade
07-04-2011, 03:55 PM
I think the only way you can even do a sign-and-trade is if you're a free agent.

Gamble1
07-04-2011, 04:07 PM
I think the only way you can even do a sign-and-trade is if you're a free agent.
I thought if player X was a RFA or could be extended a sign and trade could be done from the players former team but no other team. Since Nene is now a FA doesn't that mean no sign and trade can be done. Meaning very few teams can offer him a 13-15 mill dollar per year contract.

Edit: My prediction now is that Dalembert signs with the Nuggets, the Pacers either get Dwest or Nene. If I had to bet I would say the Nets are the ones to over pay for Nene for the same reasons why we want him.

wintermute
07-04-2011, 04:27 PM
Under the old rules, Denver can sign and trade Nene. Remains to be seen under the new rules - there's talk that they'll do away with sign and trades altogether.

Sign and trades do tend to get abused; Bird rights which are intended to help a team keep their free agent becomes a way for another team to overpay someone. David Lee, I'm looking at you.

Hicks
07-04-2011, 07:15 PM
There's certainly a disconnect between what I think of Nene's abilities and the statistics he produces. It's almost baffling, but then again I don't get to watch him nearly as much as I get to watch Pacer players, so maybe Nuggets fans can explain it to me.

But when I think about his size, speed, and skills, I see a guy who should have better stats than that, which makes me think it's one of two things: He fit in more as a cog in the machine rather than being treated/fed like "the man", or he's simply an underachiever (dare I say like Brandon Rush?).

Obviously the former would make it more worth it to gamble on overpaying him, but the latter could really sting.

Still, in today's league especially, it would be quite a luxury to have his size/skills not just in general, but to play next to another, even bigger, front man.

I'm still awfully tempted here, even if I have serious concerns.

Lance George
07-04-2011, 07:23 PM
If he's asking for $15M per, I'd tell him to go... since this is family-friendly board, I'll not finish my thought. Nene's a very good player, but $15M per is 20/10 money (Randolph, Jefferson, Boozer, etc.), something Nene is not, never has been and probably never will be.

I'd offer him 5/$55 with incentives possibly raising it to 5/$60~.

CableKC
07-04-2011, 08:06 PM
At this point I'm just hoping for a pure rebounder that will take 5 million a year or so. Don't really know who that might be. Reggie Evans?
Well, if you want a pure rebounder for less then 5 mil....yea...Reggie Evans is that guy...he literally does nothing else then be a pain in most Players "you know what". Given that he's 31....I wouldn't pay more then $2.5 mil would be okay for 2-3 years.

skyfire
07-04-2011, 08:55 PM
There is no way he'll get close to 12.5mil per season after the lockout. He either really wants to leave Denver or his agent is very foolish.

Rogco
07-04-2011, 09:12 PM
hmm...Carl Landry anyone?? David West is injured, Nene wants to be way overpaid...Carl Landry sounds good to me. lol

Just what we need! Another PF who is undersized, has a good offensive game, mediocre defense and can't rebound.

Nah, only spend if it makes the team better. I'd rather overspend for a good piece than spend less on a piece that doesn't do any good.

ballism
07-04-2011, 09:12 PM
There's no reason why he can't get 4y/50m or more after the lockout if it's a "2 bil guaranteed for 10 years" system as the owners are proposing now. Salaries wouldn't really go down drastically for current players, they just wouldn't go up as much for future players as they used to.

Probably that's what Nene's agent is expecting.

In the end, which player wouldn't want to keep making money at the expense of future players? So the CBA will most likely be along the lines of "great for players now, great for owners 10 years from now".

Rogco
07-04-2011, 09:19 PM
If he's asking for $15M per, I'd tell him to go... since this is family-friendly board, I'll not finish my thought. Nene's a very good player, but $15M per is 20/10 money (Randolph, Jefferson, Boozer, etc.), something Nene is not, never has been and probably never will be.

I'd offer him 5/$55 with incentives possibly raising it to 5/$60~.

Bit rich for me. I wouldn't want a 5 year contract with Nene. Still, so hard to say what will happen with the lockout and cba! Maybe after it's all said and done we can get him for 4/$40. I think he might regred turning down Denver's offer (if it was monetarily motivated, and not just about getting out of Denver!)

Gamble1
07-04-2011, 10:14 PM
If he's asking for $15M per, I'd tell him to go... since this is family-friendly board, I'll not finish my thought. Nene's a very good player, but $15M per is 20/10 money (Randolph, Jefferson, Boozer, etc.), something Nene is not, never has been and probably never will be.

I'd offer him 5/$55 with incentives possibly raising it to 5/$60~.
He'll be 34 by the time that deal is done. Personally I would do a 4 year deal that is front loaded on the first year.

Pacerized
07-05-2011, 12:52 AM
He'll be 34 by the time that deal is done. Personally I would do a 4 year deal that is front loaded on the first year.

Nene has proven himself healthy for the past 3 seasons. I wouldn't mind at all signing him to a 5/55 contract if that would get it done. I think he'd still be quite effective at 34. I like you idea of frontloading any contract that we bring in since the new hard cap won't likely kick in for a few years.
I think you have to draw the line at anything above a 12.5 mil. average for Nene though. He isn't worth a max contract.

A.B.Hollywood
07-05-2011, 02:20 AM
Nene isnt "old" but his carrer was ravaged by injury when he was yonger. Injuries from which he's seemed to bounce back from. Also he played on teams where he was maybe the 4th or even 5th option to score.

Melo, Iverson, JR Smith, Chauncy, K Mart and Camby were all scoring around him. Melo, Martin and Camby and BirdMan grabbed a ton of boards during Nene's stint in Denver as well. So 14/8 with 60%fg should not be a knock on him.

I am convinced that Nene would be our most dominant and consistant rebounder with good defense and shot blocking to boot. Throw in 60% from the field and I dont see why Bird wouldnt be all over this guy.

Look at Nene's stats the second half of the season without Melo and Billups and then see if you still think this. Its wishful thinking and a convenient excuse to try and justify his lack of stats.

Nene is what nene is: 14 and 7. I do think his rebounding is what has the most potential but he's not a glass cleaner by any means even with that. At most he's a 16/9 guy for us (and thats pushing it IMO). I'd definitely take that but is that worth 13 million a season? Is Nene REALLY going to be our highest paid player the one we want to pin our hopes on money wise? (because at that cost, we are)

You tell me. But I think any rational Pacer fan that watches the game knows the answer to this.

A.B.Hollywood
07-05-2011, 02:23 AM
Too bad for the Nuggets. Bottom line, Bird better get him. He'll punk Noah, Boozer and Bosh and Lopez. He wont back down from KG. He will be a huge help against Dwight and he's a hell of a lot better option against Amare' than Posey.

Other than the horribly obvious Posey line I don't even know how to respond to this.

People really need to watch more NBA games before making these kinds of statements.

Wage
07-05-2011, 02:36 AM
If you watched games you would know JOB put Posey on Amare in the 4th quarter in NY. He though he was the best option. He also had Posey guard Blake in LA.

If you read posts you would see that he stated the Posey line was obvious.

Am I doing it right?

pacer4ever
07-05-2011, 02:37 AM
If you read posts you would see that he stated the Posey line was obvious.

Am I doing it right?

ok ya I re read the post and now it makes sense :laugh:

crunk-juice
07-05-2011, 02:40 AM
i dont care if we 'overpay'. we are not going to be a serious contender unless we add pieces like him. and let's face it, he's about the highest caliber player we could bring in through free agency.

someone like Landry would be a decent consolation prize however. wouldnt make us a contender, but would significantly improve our bench (regardless of who starts)

GizzyStardust
07-05-2011, 02:56 AM
At this point I'm just hoping for a pure rebounder that will take 5 million a year or so. Don't really know who that might be. Reggie Evans?

:notamused:

mattie
07-05-2011, 03:43 AM
i dont care if we 'overpay'. we are not going to be a serious contender unless we add pieces like him. and let's face it, he's about the highest caliber player we could bring in through free agency.

someone like Landry would be a decent consolation prize however. wouldnt make us a contender, but would significantly improve our bench (regardless of who starts)

Well think about it for a little bit.. Think about what it takes to win, and what you have endured ok?

We've heard the following from upset Pacers fans:

1. Trade Granger, he's not the "1" so let's get rid of him, all he does is keep us mediocre..

2. We've heard various complaints about each and every Pacer about how they aren't good enough, Granger can't ISO, Roy is too soft, DC has no court vision etc.

3. The endless complaints about Dunleavy and Troy's contracts..


Now, you want the Pacers to willingly over pay for someone who most likely will keep the Pacers a slightly above mediocre team?

I don't get the reasoning from people who want to just grab someone now. "It's the best we can get" etc... We've went through years of terrible play, underachieving, low talent.. And the second we have cap space Pacers fans want to willingly blow any and all cap space on the best available??

What is wrong with waiting until we get the right pieces? Imagine if Paul George becomes a great player.. Do you think other players would want to play with him? I bet they would, and if we had the cap space we could sign them! What if PG doesn't? Then we can dump Granger and start over in the draft!

I mean if you avoid signing a bad contract, it's as if you have all the options in the world. You sign one stupid contract and you're literally ****ed. There is no way to describe it.

Now I'm not saying Nene isn't a good pickup, but let's consider:

No matter how great we think he is in Denver, here in Indiana we'll watch him night after night and his weaknesses will be exposed. This is what you'll see:

He'll infuriate you because he doesn't rebound. He'll frustrate you because he's not a true low post offensive threat. It'll bother you that he isn't the best at rotating on defense. It'll drive you nuts that a 6'11" guy blocks shots as well as Dale Davis.

Consider the scenario: You think to yourself, "well Nene really isn't that good. I mean good enough to make us future big time competitors." So, you think about the Pacers talent now and how a lot of the young talent will improve. No matter who the Pacers pickup, unless it is DH in '12, they will not compete. Now we can come to the conclusion that maybe signing someone right away isn't that necessary is it? I mean you're not going to win a in 12 or 13. No matter who the Pacers sign. So what's wrong with waiting??

The Pacers could sit on all their talent now and make a serious play for Howard in 12. Not saying that could work but hey, at least it's trying to win. Isn't that better than knowingly signing a bad contract like Nene who you know will never make you win??

Shade
07-05-2011, 08:42 AM
There's certainly a disconnect between what I think of Nene's abilities and the statistics he produces. It's almost baffling, but then again I don't get to watch him nearly as much as I get to watch Pacer players, so maybe Nuggets fans can explain it to me.

But when I think about his size, speed, and skills, I see a guy who should have better stats than that, which makes me think it's one of two things: He fit in more as a cog in the machine rather than being treated/fed like "the man", or he's simply an underachiever (dare I say like Brandon Rush?).

Obviously the former would make it more worth it to gamble on overpaying him, but the latter could really sting.

Still, in today's league especially, it would be quite a luxury to have his size/skills not just in general, but to play next to another, even bigger, front man.

I'm still awfully tempted here, even if I have serious concerns.

I wish Brandon Rush "underachieved" like Nene.

Speed
07-05-2011, 09:17 AM
It'd be nice to make a starting line up comparison for the East against the current Pacers starters.

It should help solidfy where people think the weaknesses are and where it might be worth spending/over spending to have the greatest impact.

Like Tyler vs Blatche, Josh Smith etc.

DC versus John Wall, Jrue Holiday etc.

Paul George versus Joe Johnson, Ray Allen etc.

....picking spots at random here.

I think it will show us how often we feel we have an advantage on a given night. Sure its not in a bubble, but I find myself enamored by Tylers energy and physical play, but then I start to compare him to his counterpart each night and it lends some perspective.

Tie in to the thread is this... how much better do you feel on a night by night comparison if you attain PF like Nene vs Tyler. And bottom line is how many wins does it buy you over the course of a full season?

ballism
07-05-2011, 09:52 AM
I don't think Nene is underachieving, I think he's just got overrated. For a guy without elite jumping ability and no quick second jump, he's doing very well.

He shoots a high %, throws down some powerful dunks and (when he cares) in certain situations (namely pnr) he defends as well as any big man, which leads to incredible hype levels.
And the lack of free agents will probably lead to incredible offers.

But yes, 50 mil / 4 years would already be too much for a piece like him imo. Anything more is insane.

Hicks
07-05-2011, 10:17 AM
Look at Nene's stats the second half of the season without Melo and Billups and then see if you still think this. Its wishful thinking and a convenient excuse to try and justify his lack of stats.

Nene is what nene is: 14 and 7. I do think his rebounding is what has the most potential but he's not a glass cleaner by any means even with that. At most he's a 16/9 guy for us (and thats pushing it IMO). I'd definitely take that but is that worth 13 million a season? Is Nene REALLY going to be our highest paid player the one we want to pin our hopes on money wise? (because at that cost, we are)

You tell me. But I think any rational Pacer fan that watches the game knows the answer to this.

You could also think of it like this: $13mm a year gets you Nene's 14/7 or 16/9 or whatever, AND it allows you to have a team where Tyler Hansbrough is your backup PF, AND it gives you your primary backup center, and serves as insurance in the event that Roy never figures it all out, all in one deal. Is all of that worth $13mm? I don't know, but I find it more compelling when I consider the domino effects of signing Nene.

dohman
07-05-2011, 10:39 AM
You could also think of it like this: $13mm a year gets you Nene's 14/7 or 16/9 or whatever, AND it allows you to have a team where Tyler Hansbrough is your backup PF, AND it gives you your primary backup center, and serves as insurance in the event that Roy never figures it all out, all in one deal. Is all of that worth $13mm? I don't know, but I find it more compelling when I consider the domino effects of signing Nene.

yeah but how does this set the payday expectations for everyone else on the team. Inflated contract for one player could mean bye bye for some of our up and coming talent when the pacers do not throw them the same bone.

Shade
07-05-2011, 11:36 AM
If the new CBA allows Nene to get $13-15M a year, then it's a total failure.

A.B.Hollywood
07-05-2011, 12:33 PM
You could also think of it like this: $13mm a year gets you Nene's 14/7 or 16/9 or whatever, AND it allows you to have a team where Tyler Hansbrough is your backup PF, AND it gives you your primary backup center, and serves as insurance in the event that Roy never figures it all out, all in one deal. Is all of that worth $13mm? I don't know, but I find it more compelling when I consider the domino effects of signing Nene.

Well, he BETTER do that right? I mean, this is the man that we are saying is worth the most to our team. if this is true he also better play the point and be a team trainer on the side.

13-14 million per season for a man who has conceivably already reached his fairly limited ceiling is just *not* cutting it IMO.

I'm reaching the point now where the only people I want out of this group are those in the 9 million per season max category.

A.B.Hollywood
07-05-2011, 12:41 PM
No matter who the Pacers pickup, unless it is DH in '12, they will not compete.

So I've been giving this more thought and I truly think I have a scenario laid out where we can get DH next season.

And it all starts with his best friend, the player that he played AAU ball with back in Atlanta, the player that he has said *multiple* times that he wants to play with, the player that compliments him TREMENDOUSLY:

Josh Smith.

Trade Hibbert, Rush and Price for Smoothe. Then next season throw the Max at Howard. And ya know what... I seriously bet he takes it. He doesn't have issues with a small market town (which Orlando truly is) and if Paul George makes the strides we think and hope, uhoh.... I mean hell, you don't think this is a contending lineup?

DC/ George Hill
Paul George/George Hill
Granger
Josh Smith
Dwight Howard

We compete against ANYONE with that lineup. And whats the worst that happens if we don't sign DH? Oh no we only got the most athletic PF in the Eastern Conference. Damn.

Gamble1
07-05-2011, 12:41 PM
You could also think of it like this: $13mm a year gets you Nene's 14/7 or 16/9 or whatever, AND it allows you to have a team where Tyler Hansbrough is your backup PF, AND it gives you your primary backup center, and serves as insurance in the event that Roy never figures it all out, all in one deal. Is all of that worth $13mm? I don't know, but I find it more compelling when I consider the domino effects of signing Nene.
Does signing Nene mean were are not going to resign a starter in the future?

If the new CBA lowers the salary cap then I would tend to believe that it would. If Nene signed for a 5 year deal he would be the only player under contract and that contract has the potential to hinder long term moves or resigning current players.

I really do like the idea of the one stone 2 bird effect of signing Nene as our starting pf/backup center but how would the minutes play out?

24min/game at starting pf and 10 min/game at backup center. That doesn't add up to me as a good rotation for the starting unit which pretty much says that half the game we have our best unit in.

A big selling point to me is that we are more immune to losing games if one of our bigs get hurt.

QuickRelease
07-05-2011, 09:17 PM
So I've been giving this more thought and I truly think I have a scenario laid out where we can get DH next season.

And it all starts with his best friend, the player that he played AAU ball with back in Atlanta, the player that he has said *multiple* times that he wants to play with, the player that compliments him TREMENDOUSLY:

Josh Smith.

Trade Hibbert, Rush and Price for Smoothe. Then next season throw the Max at Howard. And ya know what... I seriously bet he takes it. He doesn't have issues with a small market town (which Orlando truly is) and if Paul George makes the strides we think and hope, uhoh.... I mean hell, you don't think this is a contending lineup?

DC/ George Hill
Paul George/George Hill
Granger
Josh Smith
Dwight Howard

We compete against ANYONE with that lineup. And whats the worst that happens if we don't sign DH? Oh no we only got the most athletic PF in the Eastern Conference. Damn.If the Pacers found a way to grab Josh Smith AND Dwight Howard without giving up Danny, I'd try to buy you season tickets. (DISCLAIMER: Note the word TRY!)

QuickRelease
07-05-2011, 09:19 PM
Wow! The more I think about it, how much is Nene going to regret leaving $12.5 mil per on the table?

Gamble1
07-08-2011, 01:26 PM
Well it looks like we are bidding against the Nets which is no surprise.

Two unrestricted free agents, Denver's power forward/center Nene, and Detroit's small forward Tayshaun Prince, will be the Nets' prime targets when the lockout ends (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/nets/talking_turkey_NxxD06BwQcIjWojU4q0MGO). New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/nets/talking_turkey_NxxD06BwQcIjWojU4q0MGO)

ksuttonjr76
07-08-2011, 01:51 PM
Realistically speaking, how many teams would have a better frontcourt than a Nene/Hibbert combo in the Eastern Conference?

Presuming that Hibbert has his yearly improvement...

Ozwalt72
07-08-2011, 01:56 PM
Realistically speaking, how many teams would have a better frontcourt than a Nene/Hibbert combo in the Eastern Conference?

Presuming that Hibbert has his yearly improvement...

At least 4, maybe as many as 8.

Hicks
07-08-2011, 01:59 PM
Well it looks like we are bidding against the Nets which is no surprise.

Two unrestricted free agents, Denver's power forward/center Nene, and Detroit's small forward Tayshaun Prince, will be the Nets' prime targets when the lockout ends (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/nets/talking_turkey_NxxD06BwQcIjWojU4q0MGO). New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/nets/talking_turkey_NxxD06BwQcIjWojU4q0MGO)

That link doesn't mention Indiana, though I understand there's a presumption that Indy would be interested.

Gamble1
07-08-2011, 02:11 PM
That link doesn't mention Indiana, though I understand there's a presumption that Indy would be interested.
I think Indy has no shot if the Nets want to get him and personally I am glad because the contract is going to be too much.

Now with the Kevin Pritchard hire I think we could see something out of left field although I still think our fall back plan is to sign Dwest.

Infinite MAN_force
07-08-2011, 02:36 PM
At least 4, maybe as many as 8.

I'm not even a fan of getting Nene, but seriously? I start drawing a blank after Orlando, Atlanta, Chicago... Where the hell are you getting 8?

Ozwalt72
07-08-2011, 02:55 PM
I'm not even a fan of getting Nene, but seriously? I start drawing a blank after Orlando, Atlanta, Chicago... Where the hell are you getting 8?

Well, if people are banking on Hibbert improving, you have to assume other young players are going to improve as well, so that adds a few. I'm not saying that they are all better, but I don't think Hibbert and Nene is clearly better than these teams.

New York, Amare's lightyears better than both players. Put Turiaf or whoever next to him, doesn't really matter.

Boston, depending on free agency, player retirement etc. KG's still a very good player.

Milwaulkee, Bogut, whatever PF steps on on that roster. Larry Sanders maybe.

Washington, Javale, Blatche - Maybe the biggest stretch on the list, but hey, if Hibbert improves...McGee probably will too.

Cleveland, I'm an idiot and listed two players that aren't even on this team.

Toronto, Bargnani, Ed Davis - This one is a big stretch, but if Davis improves it's at least iffy.

New Jersey: Lopez, Humphries - Don't care for Lopez but if Humphries wasn't a fluke....

Miami: Bosh is still an all-star caliber player, depends on who they can put next to him.

Are these combos clearly better than what the Pacers have? No, not necessarily. I wouldn't say the Pacers with Nene and Hibbert are in much better a position though.

Infinite MAN_force
07-08-2011, 03:06 PM
Well, if people are banking on Hibbert improving, you have to assume other young players are going to improve as well, so that adds a few. I'm not saying that they are all better, but I don't think Hibbert and Nene is clearly better than these teams.

New York, Amare's lightyears better than both players. Put Turiaf or whoever next to him, doesn't really matter.

Boston, depending on free agency, player retirement etc. KG's still a very good player.

Milwaulkee, Bogut, whatever PF steps on on that roster. Larry Sanders maybe.

Washington, Javale, Blatche - Maybe the biggest stretch on the list, but hey, if Hibbert improves...McGee probably will too.

Cleveland, Hickson, Varejao, Jamieson, Valanciunas. The best 2 out of the group.

Toronto, Bargnani, Ed Davis - This one is a big stretch, but if Davis improves it's at least iffy.

New Jersey: Lopez, Humphries - Don't care for Lopez but if Humphries wasn't a fluke....

Miami: Bosh is still an all-star caliber player, depends on who they can put next to him.

Are these combos clearly better than what the Pacers have? No, not necessarily. I wouldn't say the Pacers with Nene and Hibbert are in much better a position though.

Boston: Really, a way past his prime KG and who else? Big Baby? They don't even have Perkins anymore.

Bucks: Bogut is better than Hibbert, but I couldn't even name another big on that roster. Hibbert/Nene is much better overall, especially with Tyler off the bench. Not even close.

New York: Similar to Bucks, Amare is an all star, but he is a often injured one way player, he plays no defense. He is clearly better than either player... but the question was about the teams front court. Hibbert/Nene/Hansbrough beats Amare/junk every single time.

Miami See previous two.

Those are the only ones where a reasonable argument can be made, the fact that you listed Washington, New Jersey, Cleveland, and TORONTO? SERIOUSLY TORONTO? That is completely laughable. Makes me question why I bothered responding at all.

LA_Confidential
07-08-2011, 03:09 PM
At least 4, maybe as many as 8.

Your kidding, right? Lets look at the 4/5 combos in the East.

Atlanta-Horford/Smith= Yes
Boston-KG/Big Baby or????= No
Charlotte-Bismack/Tyrus/Kwame or Diaw=No
Chicago-Boozer/Noah=Push
Cleveland-Verajao/Jamison or Thompson=No
Detroit-Monroe/Wallace/Wilcox or Charlie V=No
Miami-Bosh/Anthony=No
Milwakee-Bogut/Mbah A Moute=No
New Jersey-Lopez/Kardashian=No
New York-Amare'/Turiaf=No
Orlando-Dwight/Bass or Ryan Anderson=No
Philadelphia-Brand/Hawes=No
Toronto-Bargnani/Amir Johnson=No
Washington-Blatche/McGee=No

A few teams in the East have 1 big that may be better than Hibbert or Nene ie Dwight, Amare, Horford, but in my estimation there is only one maybe two "4/5 COMBO" in the East better than Roy/Nene. Throw in Tyler and a sprinkle of Foster and we may have the best Big Man Rotation in the East.

Hicks
07-08-2011, 03:15 PM
I think Indy has no shot if the Nets want to get him and personally I am glad because the contract is going to be too much.

Now with the Kevin Pritchard hire I think we could see something out of left field although I still think our fall back plan is to sign Dwest.

The funny thing is, I was just reading someplace else today that the Nets are allegedly preferring to just keep Humphries as their starting PF because he's so much cheaper.

Ozwalt72
07-08-2011, 03:30 PM
Your kidding, right? Lets look at the 4/5 combos in the East.

Atlanta-Horford/Smith= Yes
Boston-KG/Big Baby or????= No We'll see. KG's better than both, still. But yeah, Big Baby isn't too...appetizing
Charlotte-Bismack/Tyrus/Kwame or Diaw=No
Chicago-Boozer/Noah=Push Noah's an all star, Boozer played poorly but he's still a good player
Cleveland-Verajao/Jamison or Thompson=No or Hickson, but true
Detroit-Monroe/Wallace/Wilcox or Charlie V=No Agree, but you did see what Monroe did to us last year?
Miami-Bosh/Anthony=No I agree, mainly because I don't think Bosh is all that good
Milwakee-Bogut/Mbah A Moute=No Bogut's clearly better than both players and Moute is a better defender than both Hibbert and Nene. It's not a stretch to say they are better.
New Jersey-Lopez/Kardashian=No And why not? Many people on this board was arguing with me that Lopez was clearly a better player and building block than Hibbert, and Mr. Kim averaged 10/10 in 28mpg
New York-Amare'/Turiaf=No Arguable. I'd take Hibbert and Nene over those two, but I think it's close.
Orlando-Dwight/Bass or Ryan Anderson=No Uh, YES. Howard's one of the top 5 players in the league. You are underrating a single player in the combo.
Philadelphia-Brand/Hawes=No
Toronto-Bargnani/Amir Johnson=No Amir Johnson? Try Ed Davis, who had a very solid rookie year. No, not better than our combo, but in a year or two with Jan Vesely, those two could be.
Washington-Blatche/McGee=No if Mcgee makes the strides he did last year, it's so much closer than you want to admit.


hmm

So my 4-8 prediction may be more like 3-6, in my opinion. Best in the conference? No way. And really I get your point with the combo idea. Amare, Howard is better than both players, but what happens when he gets into foul trouble? With us, Hibbert gets into foul trouble and we still have Nene...or vice versa.

LA_Confidential
07-08-2011, 03:42 PM
Kardashian, Mbah A Moute and Ed Davis arent even better than Tyler right now. Tyler had multiple 20/10 games last year and he wouldnt even start if we had Nene.

Ozwalt72
07-08-2011, 03:48 PM
Kardashian, Mbah A Moute and Ed Davis arent even better than Tyler right now. Tyler had multiple 20/10 games last year and he wouldnt even start if we had Nene.

My bad, I value rebounding.

I agree about Mbah A Moute, but think you are underrating Bogut who has another year to recovery from that injury.

Gamble1
07-08-2011, 03:52 PM
hmm

So my 4-8 prediction may be more like 3-6, in my opinion. Best in the conference? No way. And really I get your point with the combo idea. Amare, Howard is better than both players, but what happens when he gets into foul trouble? With us, Hibbert gets into foul trouble and we still have Nene...or vice versa.
Hickson also got traded so I doubt Cleveland plays him..

IF we get Nene only 3 teams are better than us in the front court (Magic, Hawks, Knicks).


The funny thing is, I was just reading someplace else today that the Nets are allegedly preferring to just keep Humphries as their starting PF because he's so much cheaper.
I don't think Nene is enough for Dwill to stay personally. They have to land a bigger name if they want to keep that team together.

Gamble1
07-08-2011, 03:55 PM
My bad, I value rebounding.

I agree about Mbah A Moute, but think you are underrating Bogut who has another year to recovery from that injury.
Screws are still being removed from his elbow. I don't think he ever recovers.

Ozwalt72
07-08-2011, 03:56 PM
Hickson also got traded so I doubt Cleveland plays him..

IF we get Nene only 3 teams are better than us in the front court (Magic, Hawks, Knicks).

Damn, my bad. How'd that one escape me? And my Valanciunas error earlier. /stickheadinmicrowave

Front court is our biggest problem spot, yet this above average player will give us the fourth best FC in the conference?

Championship or bust?