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Volmancagle17
06-30-2011, 11:38 PM
I think Tyler hansbrough will be an upper tier pf (top 10) in the league for the next 10 years. Hes tough, can score, makes the right pass, knocks his free throws down and is a team first guy. I think after we see him for a full season people may get excited to have him.

I could see him being a career 17 ppg, 7 rpg guy.

pacer4ever
06-30-2011, 11:40 PM
I think Tyler hansbrough will be an upper tier pf (top 10) in the league for the next 10 years. Hes tough, can score, makes the right pass, knocks his free throws down and is a team first guy. I think after we see him for a full season people may get excited to have him.

I could see him being a career 17 ppg, 7 rpg guy.

:spock:

he is a poor defender and only 6'8(if that) and a black hole and a average to poor re bounder. He is a great backup but not a very good starter IMO.

Trophy
06-30-2011, 11:43 PM
:spock:

he is a poor defender and only 6"8 and a black hole and a average to poor re bounder. He is a great backup but not a very good starter IMO.

I agree 100%.

I like Tyler a lot and he's a great backup and best suited to be our 6th man for the future.

We need his energy off the bench and he'll be a very important piece to our core.

For the type of player he is, starting is too much for him. Between his height and difficulty playing defense at the pro level.

Volmancagle17
06-30-2011, 11:48 PM
I agree 100%.

I like Tyler a lot and he's a great backup and best suited to be our 6th man for the future.

For the type of player he is, starting is too much for him. Between his height and difficulty playing defense at the pro level.

he was our 2nd best player the 2nd half of the season. Carl landry and milsap aren't much bigger than 6'8. there's a reason he's one of the most successful college players of all time.
he reminds me of tebow in that while people doubt him, his work ethic will make him the player we want him to be. he's a freak.

ECKrueger
06-30-2011, 11:49 PM
Tyler is my favorite Pacer, and we definitely need another PF. Even if he was top 10 (which he never will be) we still need another PF.

PacerPenguins
06-30-2011, 11:52 PM
I agree 100%.

I like Tyler a lot and he's a great backup and best suited to be our 6th man for the future.

We need his energy off the bench and he'll be a very important piece to our core.

For the type of player he is, starting is too much for him. Between his height and difficulty playing defense at the pro level.

if we get nene or david west then we see tyler off the bench... other than that he starts imo.... just think about this.... if we get nene or west this year and eric gordon next year here is a look at our lineups.

Starting 5

DC
Gordon
Granger
Nene or West
Hibbert

First off the bench
Hill
George
Hans

Thats damn good

Trophy
06-30-2011, 11:52 PM
he was our 2nd best player the 2nd half of the season. Carl landry and milsap aren't much bigger than 6'8. there's a reason he's one of the most successful college players of all time.
he reminds me of tebow in that while people doubt him, his work ethic will make him the player we want him to be. he's a freak.

I'm in no way saying he's not.

Look at my avatar. I like Tyler a lot and being a 6th man doesn't mean you aren't valuable or a top player on the team.

At times he can definitely play above his 6-9 or whatever height specifically offensively and getting to the line, but defensively we need it more consistently.

imawhat
07-01-2011, 12:01 AM
Because there is a perception that power forward is our biggest weakness, which I don't agree with at all.

CableKC
07-01-2011, 12:06 AM
Until he shows me otherwise, I will view him as a "very solid Backup PF that can be a decent short-term Emergency Starting PF".

As some have said before....I'd prefer that he play an "intense/high energy" 24 mpg against the 2nd unit of most Teams while mixing it up with Starting PFs from time to time to change the pace of the game.

IMHO.....he'd be far more effective as a Backup PF then he would be a Starting PF.

pacers74
07-01-2011, 12:09 AM
I really hope Tyler becomes the player you think he is going to be. But right now we need an upgrade at the PF spot. Ideally that guy would be able to play C as well, so we can have a 3 man rotation of Hibbert, new PF/C (Nene :dance:), and Tyler. This way Tyler would still get starter minutes or close to it. If we go the way of another smaller PF like Milsap, Tyler would just have to share time with that player. Either way I don't think it as much of as people not liking Tyler as we are needing 2 strong PF's (one hopefuuly who can play center too).

Wylder1324
07-01-2011, 02:42 AM
Tyler is 6'9.5 ……he is taller than both Millsap(6'7.5) & West(6'9.25) Millsap is the last thing that I think we need, a truly undersized PF and West would have been great 3 years younger but your talking about a guy who is probably 32 once the lockout is finished……Im still miffed at why s many people think West is the answer….if we sign West we still aren't a contender…..he couldn't contend with Chris Paul….much less our current group. So if we are either A - waiting for a young guy to have a coming out party or B - 2012 FA to sign the last piece to the puzzle West is on the decline……hell even 3 years ago the guy really doesn't fit as a starter next to Roy…..I hope to God we don't sign him. That said I do prefer the idea of Tyler coming off the bench as a super sub with George Hill, so Im not saying I disagree with needed another PF…..I just don't feel that West or Millsap are guys we should be targeting…..even Nene has been an underachiever in my eye…

JEM
07-01-2011, 03:01 AM
I think Hansbrough is already a solid player and a serviceable starter.. He has some things he has to work on like every other player in the NBA but from what I have seen so far there is no reason to think he isnt going to improve in those areas.

People are quick to say he is weak on defense but I dont see it. He has improved his perimeter D noticeably and is strong in the post even though he tries to anticipate sometimes which gets him in trouble.

If the Pacers can get Nene then I am ok with Tyler coming off the bench but if not then Tyler should remain the starter IMO.

As Tyler Hansbrough has said " People can say whatever they want to say ".

Midcoasted
07-01-2011, 03:03 AM
:spock:

he is a poor defender and only 6'8(if that) and a black hole and a average to poor re bounder. He is a great backup but not a very good starter IMO.

Okay I could see the black hole tag or the average to poor rebounder thing, but a poor defender? Murphy was a poor defender at the 4, not Tyler. Sometimes I think you just watch the game but you don't completely understand it. Or you just really think all the Pacers are below average and we suck. You definitely would have been on "the least talented team in the NBA" bandwagon about a year ago and you still probably think we are bottom 5. :rolleyes:

pacer4ever
07-01-2011, 03:14 AM
Okay I could see the black hole tag or the average to poor rebounder thing, but a poor defender? Murphy was a poor defender at the 4, not Tyler. Sometimes I think you just watch the game but you don't completely understand it. Or you just really think all the Pacers are below average and we suck. You definitely would have been on "the least talented team in the NBA" bandwagon about a year ago and you still probably think we are bottom 5. :rolleyes:

he is a good defender for his size but he is limited due to his size. I mean he isn't Carlos Boozer or Murphy but he is overall a below average defender IMO. I mean most PF's can just shoot over him. He is a better defender than David West though Tyler is very active and that helps make up for his size a little. David West is a poor to average defender but he is a beast offensively and makes up for it that way. If Tyler could pass and rebound better I would be fine with him as our starting 4. Because in the right system scheme you can hide his defensive faults.


EDIT: But i want to make this clear I don't want to spend big money on a PF this off season. If I was in charge I would add a roster filler type guy or a good vet to a 1 yr deal and see how Tyler can play under a full season of Vogel and the staff. But even if i came to the conclusion Tyler is the guy i want at the PF(which would take a lot ). I would add a PF in 2012 a guy like Jordan Hill(just a name I would aim higher but a defensive minded big PF to go with Tyler). I think going out and signing West would be a massive mistake.

And ideal if Tyler is a starter i would want his minutes limited to around 25-28mpg. He is way more effective fresh. So regardless if he turns into a "starter material" we need another defensive big at the PF IMO.

Final EDIT: and being called a poor defender isnt that big of a knock. I Mean in the NBA the rules are set to benefit the offense and it is almost impossible to play good defense. He is in with the majority of players who are just average to poor defenders.

don't understand the game? please basketball is my life I fully understand the game. I never said we are a bottom 5 talent team. But we are not nearly as talent as some people say on here and we aren't gonna compete for an NBA title any time soon. We need a top tier talent and IMO we don't have one. You don't have to agree with me that's fine it is just my opinion that we don't have great talent we have mediocre to good talent.

HeliumFear
07-01-2011, 05:41 AM
Tyler H is nothing more than an energy guy. He's a good one,but that's it.

Also,the Pacers' rebounding has to improve. Hans and Hibb aren't cutting it together. Need someone else.

granger33
07-01-2011, 06:44 AM
I just wanna add that I think hansbrough was one of, if not the best player we had in the playoffs this year. He shows up for big games unlike others

Jim R
07-01-2011, 06:51 AM
You guys understand, he just finished his second year, right?

McKeyFan
07-01-2011, 07:35 AM
I just wanna add that I think hansbrough was one of, if not the best player we had in the playoffs this year. He shows up for big games unlike others
IIRC, he was our best player the first game of the playoffs. He didn't do so well after that.

But as I noted elsewhere, he got elbowed in the head at the end of game 1, which may explain the mediocre performance thereafter.

Offensively, he clearly did not do well in games 2-5.

McKeyFan
07-01-2011, 07:38 AM
Some players get better as the pressure builds and the moment arrives. I still think Tyler may be one of those type guys, although this past playoff performance was a mixed bag.

Roy, however, is looking more and more like a guy who does the opposite and shrinks in big moments. And it is really a big concern for me, Roy lover that I am. It's made me open to trading him or finding someone else to close games for us.

McKeyFan
07-01-2011, 07:38 AM
Some players get better as the pressure builds and the moment arrives. I still think Tyler may be one of those type guys, although this past playoff performance was a mixed bag.

Roy, however, is looking more and more like a guy who does the opposite and shrinks in big moments. And it is really a big concern for me, Roy lover that I am. It's made me open to trading him or finding someone else to close games for us.

granger33
07-01-2011, 07:50 AM
IIRC, he was our best player the first game of the playoffs. He didn't do so well after that.

But as I noted elsewhere, he got elbowed in the head at the end of game 1, which may explain the mediocre performance thereafter.

Offensively, he clearly did not do well in games 2-5.

True. But game 1 of the playoffs was truley an amazing performance by Tyler. I'm sure there are plenty of more games like that to come.

I hate when my friends check box score and say "hansbrough played terrible, he was 3-10" Tyler is a player that can influence the game huge without eye drawing stats.

Speed
07-01-2011, 07:53 AM
I'm torn.

The team needs another upper echelon player, a 1A/1B and PF seems like a position it could come at, if its not there, then where is it.

At times, I think lets roll with this group and see how each players ceiling starts to look like. DC, Tyler, Roy, Paul, George Hill, and even Lance. I just don't know where they'll be in 3 years, yet.

Other times, I think the Pacers have unprecendented cap room, they need to strike before the other youngsters need extended. This is a small window to add an injection of talent via trade or FA signing.

Lastly, everytime we talk about adding a PF, we talk about how they'll fit with Roy. I start to wonder if, at times, if limiting yourself to that prerequisite is telling in what you have with Roy. I love Roy, but if I'm constantly asking will a player fit with Roy, maybe its Roy's value/position, who we need to think about.

Ideal situation is Paul George is that 1A/1B and the rest takes care of itself. You sign a rebounding/defensive 4/5 and you are good. As much as I hope/think Paul is the guy, we have to be realistic and the facts are he was an 8 and 3 guy as a Rookie. You just don't know for sure.

Worse scenario. You try to sign a 1A/1B Power Forward and you stunt Hansbroughs growth while over spending for a non missing piece. This gets you back to the Muprhy/Dunleavy scenario where you have overpaid players again who eliminate your chance to make improvements very easily due to the amount of cap space they eat up.

troyc11a
07-01-2011, 08:09 AM
True. But game 1 of the playoffs was truley an amazing performance by Tyler. I'm sure there are plenty of more games like that to come.

I hate when my friends check box score and say "hansbrough played terrible, he was 3-10" Tyler is a player that can influence the game huge without eye drawing stats.

All true, and remember, Tyler averaged 16/8 in February and 14/6 as a starter. He is on the rise. When he starts to get a little bit of respect from the officals, he could put up monstrous numbers. How many times does Tyler take it to the hoop and get hammered to the floor and no call is made? If a Danny made that play he would be at the line and so will Tyler later on.
I would like to see a backup PF who can play D, rebound, and block shots. I am not as concerned about offense. Tyler is my PF going forward!

BRushWithDeath
07-01-2011, 08:09 AM
true he was clutch in the playoffs

Tyler's per 36 minutes:

Pts:
Regular Season: 18.0
Playoffs: 12.3

Reb:
Regular Season: 8.6
Playoffs: 5.9

Ast:
Regular Season: 1.0
Playoffs: 1.1

Blk:
Regular Season: 0.4
Playoffs: 0.0

Stl:
Regular Season: 0.9
Playoffs: 1.3

PER:
Regular Season: 16.4
Playoffs: 8.9

And that includes his truly fantastic second half of game 1.

As I've pointed out numerous times in the past, taking anything from that 5 game sample is absolutely ludicrous, good or bad. But the perception of the situation is not the reality.

troyc11a
07-01-2011, 08:15 AM
I'm torn.

The team needs another upper echelon player, a 1A/1B and PF seems like a position it could come at, if its not there, then where is it.

At times, I think lets roll with this group and see how each players ceiling starts to look like. DC, Tyler, Roy, Paul, George Hill, and even Lance. I just don't know where they'll be in 3 years, yet.

Other times, I think the Pacers have unprecendented cap room, they need to strike before the other youngsters need extended. This is a small window to add an injection of talent via trade or FA signing.

Lastly, everytime we talk about adding a PF, we talk about how they'll fit with Roy. I start to wonder if, at times, if limiting yourself to that prerequisite is telling in what you have with Roy. I love Roy, but if I'm constantly asking will a player fit with Roy, maybe its Roy's value/position, who we need to think about.

Ideal situation is Paul George is that 1A/1B and the rest takes care of itself. You sign a rebounding/defensive 4/5 and you are good. As much as I hope/think Paul is the guy, we have to be realistic and the facts are he was an 8 and 3 guy as a Rookie. You just don't know for sure.

Worse scenario. You try to sign a 1A/1B Power Forward and you stunt Hansbroughs growth while over spending for a non missing piece. This gets you back to the Muprhy/Dunleavy scenario where you have overpaid players again who eliminate your chance to make improvements very easily due to the amount of cap space they eat up.

It would be great to get a real star but do you really think that is going to happen? I dont see one coming here. What I do see is a team that can be the deepest in the league that can surround the "core" of DC, Hill, PG, DG, Tyler, and Roy with some accomplished vets who know their role.
Guys like Foster, Kirilenko, Chuck Hayes, and other proven vets could really bolster this team and add to their "Smashmouth" brand that Frank Vogel has created. Also, if they give a huge contract to any of the big FA's, then the ability to keep the core intact will be greatly hindered.
How would you like to see Roy, Tyler, and George turn into strong contributors only to have to make a decision on which one to keep and which two is let go? That could happen if Bird gives a big contract to West or a guy like him.
Besides, Tyler could very easily out perform him next year anyway as West is on the downside of his career, especially since tearing his ACL.

troyc11a
07-01-2011, 08:17 AM
Tyler's per 36 minutes:

Pts:
Regular Season: 18.0
Playoffs: 12.3

Reb:
Regular Season: 8.6
Playoffs: 5.9

Ast:
Regular Season: 1.0
Playoffs: 1.1

Blk:
Regular Season: 0.4
Playoffs: 0.0

Stl:
Regular Season: 0.9
Playoffs: 1.3

PER:
Regular Season: 16.4
Playoffs: 8.9

And that includes his truly fantastic second half of game 1.

As I've pointed out numerous times in the past, taking anything from that 5 game sample is absolutely ludicrous, good or bad. But the perception of the situation is not the reality.

Thanks for the stats! This proves that we do not need to bring in a starting PF. We already have one! I was not aware that Tyler's "Per 36" was as good as the big name FA's that's been talked about. Tyler should be our starting PF for the next several years!

Jimmy
07-01-2011, 08:28 AM
The thing with tyler is he is going to improve his offense this summer making him close to a West or Nene on the offensive side.

West and Nene are a little better defensively, but is that big of an improvement where you want to pay an extra 12-13 million a year (nene) and hurt or chances to resign players or get a big time player in 2012? We need defense, rebounding, shotblocking, and I don't think we should invest in a power forward unless they fit that bill. Let's see how Hansbrough does this year and then we can see if we should get someone else through a trade or free agency.

pacer4ever
07-01-2011, 08:36 AM
Tyler's per 36 minutes:

Pts:
Regular Season: 18.0
Playoffs: 12.3

Reb:
Regular Season: 8.6
Playoffs: 5.9

Ast:
Regular Season: 1.0
Playoffs: 1.1

Blk:
Regular Season: 0.4
Playoffs: 0.0

Stl:
Regular Season: 0.9
Playoffs: 1.3

PER:
Regular Season: 16.4
Playoffs: 8.9

And that includes his truly fantastic second half of game 1.

As I've pointed out numerous times in the past, taking anything from that 5 game sample is absolutely ludicrous, good or bad. But the perception of the situation is not the reality.

wow thanks for that i thought he played pretty good guess i was wrong. I know he had a strong game one but then he did fall off a bit the injury hurt apparently more than a bit a lot :D.

Unclebuck
07-01-2011, 08:42 AM
I don't know if we need a new power forward, but what I do know is we need a new big, whether it is a center or a power forward, I don't really care, but we need to get better at those positions.

Mackey_Rose
07-01-2011, 08:52 AM
This myth that Tyler was somehow great in the Chicago series should be put to rest. He was very good in game 1, and then below mediocre the rest of the series.

However, if you look at the entire scope of the season a strong case could be made that power forward was one of the top 2 positions on the team.

Justin Tyme
07-01-2011, 09:00 AM
Because there is a perception that power forward is our biggest weakness, which I don't agree with at all.



IYO, what is the Pacers biggest weakness?

pacer4ever
07-01-2011, 09:02 AM
IYO, what is the Pacers biggest weakness?

pg
sg
pf
c

and last but not least a star and if we get a star you can cross out the rest of those 4.:D

vnzla81
07-01-2011, 09:03 AM
I've been saying forever that if we get a point guard that could see the floor PF wouldn't even be a problem, how many times I got to watch DC dribble the ball for like 20sec and Tyler or Mcbob wide open under the basket and he rather shoots? How many times DC decided to shoot a fadeway shot with two people on him instead of passing the ball to the open Tyler or Mcbob? I would argue that the DC factor is costing Tyler and Mcbob close to 4ppg if not more.

vnzla81
07-01-2011, 09:03 AM
IYO, what is the Pacers biggest weakness?

Starting point guard.

Trader Joe
07-01-2011, 09:04 AM
I would ride out this season with what we have and then try to add to it next year.

Edit: At all positions and of course if a chance for a huge upgrade comes, I think you take it, but I'm just not sure a 28 year old Nene who might be pushing 30 by the time we're playing meaningful basketball again is really an upgrade. Same for a 31 year old David West who might be pushing 33.

Mackey_Rose
07-01-2011, 09:12 AM
IYO, what is the Pacers biggest weakness?

Both guard positions were in much worse shape than power forward. Center was also worse with the exception of the first month and a half or so.

Steagles
07-01-2011, 09:26 AM
Save the money this year! Unless we can get one of those guys under $5M, then save it for Gordon and Gasol in 2012!

McKeyFan
07-01-2011, 09:26 AM
At times, I think lets roll with this group and see how each players ceiling starts to look like. DC, Tyler, Roy, Paul, George Hill, and even Lance. I just don't know where they'll be in 3 years, yet.
I think there is some wisdom here.

Waiting at least one year before blowing our wad could make some sense. I don't care for Collison, but maybe he finds a way to see the floor better next year. Maybe Lance breaks out, maybe not.

Maybe George Hill is great at the pg, maybe not. Maybe he becomes an elite scorer away from Parker and Ginobli, maybe not.

Maybe Tyler becomes starter quality with a full summer and year behind his belt, maybe not.

Maybe Roy grows up and finds some gonads down the stretch, maybe not.

Maybe Paul George is a superstar in waiting, maybe he is comfortable being a dependable so-so glue guy.

That's a lot of maybe's.

Could be a lot smarter to commit to multiple millions a year or two from now, when we know what we've got. In the meantime, spend a smaller amount on a Hayes/Dalembert type.

Justin Tyme
07-01-2011, 09:46 AM
Lastly, everytime we talk about adding a PF, we talk about how they'll fit with Roy. I start to wonder if, at times, if limiting yourself to that prerequisite is telling in what you have with Roy. I love Roy, but if I'm constantly asking will a player fit with Roy, maybe its Roy's value/position, who we need to think about.


I see the validity in what you are saying. At the same time where are you going to find a C who most any PF can play with him? Centers, as we know, are are to find. I'm not totally sold on Hibbert as the answer as the Pacers future Center, but I also realize he's only been in the league 3 years with 2 1/2 of those years under Jimmy. I also realize it takes 4-5 years for Centers to progress.

I have been an advocate for what seems like forever that the Pacers get a big man coach. Neither Walsh nor Bird has been willing, or maybe it's ownership that hasn't been willing to pay for one. Say what you will about David Harrison's mental weaknesses, but I still feel a big man's coach could have helped him as a player. The Pacers, for whatever reason, have a major reluctance to bring in a "good" Big Man coach which I feel is absolutely STUPID! Why expect a big man to figure it out for himself? Foster I'm sure has been of some help, but lets face it Foster is limited in his own game. If you have a young big that you expect good things from in the future, why not get them help so they can achieve the potential they have. If your child is having difficultly in school, don't you get them help? If you rely on the school only to help your child, you are doing your child a great disservice.

Same applies to not getting your bigs a Big man coach. Why have a good asset with real potential and not spend the money for a Big man coach to develop that potential? Centers don't grow on trees. Just think how much better Roy, Tyler, and McBob might be if they'd had a DD, Oakley, Lamibeer, or Jabar working with them! Maybe looking for PF woulndn't even have to be a consideration. If nothing else, it would give the FO a truer view as to what they really have in their Bigs.

SPEND THE MONEY HERB!! Insist on getting the best value out of the salaries you are paying. You'll get a better return on your money if you do.

Ballerzfan
07-01-2011, 09:54 AM
We're a young team other than DG. Lack of experience in closing out games, defensive rotations, running the offense successfully (probably should be green on that last one). Most people want a new PF because they want to see someone inside that is an enforcer. Shot blocking, rebounding, don't bring that into the paint or I'll make you pay kind of guy. This is a two headed monster imo. Many of us see some great potential in Roy to be a very good center. Height, court awareness and desire to improve. But he's never going to be that enforcer type of player. He's too slow, his hops are not impressive at all and his demeanor isn't like a DD or Pistons Bad Boys mentality. So because many feel he's the future center of our franchise that we need to pair him with a bigger, stronger, quicker, hops out of the gym and throws it down every play like he's pissed Blake Griffin type of PF.

Were we to trade Roy and bring in a Chandler/Perkins/Nene type of center then more people would see benefit to Tyler and McRoberts. Athletic bigs who can step out and hit the mid range jumper and play the pick and roll, and defensively able to step out and man up tight on the stretch 4's knowing you've got a clean up man in both cases on the block were they to get beat on the drive.

The 3 of them don't necessarily make a good lineup as starters together in any combination. Yet all 3 if paired with the enforcer type can be damn good starters for many years to come on the Pacers. It's a matter of meshing the personnel you have and balancing that with their development while not overpaying for a complementary player that will make the Pacers brass next couple of years interesting. We're slowly assembling solid young talent and cap space. Now to find the missing pieces without overpaying long term will be the key.

Justin Tyme
07-01-2011, 09:58 AM
I don't know if we need a new power forward, but what I do know is we need a new big, whether it is a center or a power forward, I don't really care, but we need to get better at those positions.


Anderson Varejao. He can play both positions. He's young with a long term livable contract.

Psyren
07-01-2011, 10:07 AM
I like Tyler, a lot.

But he's not a starting PF. He doesn't make the right passes at all. In fact, he rarely passes the ball once he touches.

Also, he's not a good defender by any stretch of the imagination. I'd be willing to lose a bit of scoring to pick up a guy who is tough on the boards AND will block some shots. We can get the scoring from Tyler and others.

Justin Tyme
07-01-2011, 10:13 AM
My main issue, maybe fear is better, with Hans is his vertigo or whatever the problem is. I just have this thing about him getting hurt again and maybe never being able to come back from it. It can't be repaired with surgery. I cringed when he got hurt in the playoffs. My heart jumped up into my throat, and a I got this sick feeling. Yes, he came back, but he wasn't the same player the rest of the series. This is a major reason why I feel the Pacers need a good starting PF. Let Hans come off the bench with his energy. IF you have a good quality starting PF, and Tyler gets hurt you aren't put in a hole as with Tyler being the starting PF.

Of the core of Granger, Hans, PG, Hibbert, Collison, and Hill, Hans is the one player I'm most willing to trade, and it's b/c of my uneasiness concerning his long term health. I wish I could feel different about his health issue, but the Chicago playoff game just magnified it for me. JMOAA

PR07
07-01-2011, 10:14 AM
Tyler's a passable starting PF in this league. However, I think on a really good team (what the Pacers are striving to become), he might be better served as a backup. His energy, tenacity, and scoring fits a lot better with the second unit, as opposed to the starting lineup. Plus, I'm not sure he's the best of fits playing next to Hibbert either.

Justin Tyme
07-01-2011, 10:24 AM
Both guard positions were in much worse shape than power forward. Center was also worse with the exception of the first month and a half or so.





NOW, not was last year. Didn't Bird just strengthen both those positions with the "big" addition of George Hill?

So are you saying Hibbert needs to be replaced as starting Center?

Sookie
07-01-2011, 10:27 AM
I would ride out this season with what we have and then try to add to it next year.

Edit: At all positions and of course if a chance for a huge upgrade comes, I think you take it, but I'm just not sure a 28 year old Nene who might be pushing 30 by the time we're playing meaningful basketball again is really an upgrade. Same for a 31 year old David West who might be pushing 33.

Well, we still have to sign a PF and Center anyway.

At times, all the positions struggled. I think PF was our most consistent position. You knew what you were getting from Josh and Tyler. I just don't think that's good enough in the long haul.

Lou Bega
07-01-2011, 10:45 AM
People hate on Tyler cause he doesnt have a nice youtube mix w/ Xzibit rapping in the background. I went to a lot of games last year around 20. The loudest I heard Conseco is when he dunked the ball on Amere Stoudmere of the Knicks.

I am firm in my belief that Tyler will beat out anybody we bring in.

Speed
07-01-2011, 10:56 AM
It would be great to get a real star but do you really think that is going to happen? I dont see one coming here. What I do see is a team that can be the deepest in the league that can surround the "core" of DC, Hill, PG, DG, Tyler, and Roy with some accomplished vets who know their role.
Guys like Foster, Kirilenko, Chuck Hayes, and other proven vets could really bolster this team and add to their "Smashmouth" brand that Frank Vogel has created. Also, if they give a huge contract to any of the big FA's, then the ability to keep the core intact will be greatly hindered.
How would you like to see Roy, Tyler, and George turn into strong contributors only to have to make a decision on which one to keep and which two is let go? That could happen if Bird gives a big contract to West or a guy like him.
Besides, Tyler could very easily out perform him next year anyway as West is on the downside of his career, especially since tearing his ACL.


I agree with everything, but the possibility to get a star here. Basically you trade for one, the player won't have a choice, Pacers are in a position of power via thier cap room (regardless what it is).

Ya you don't get a super duper star, but I think that second/third rung of David Wests, Lamar Odoms, Kamans, Paul Milsaps are ripe for the taking with maybe not much more than financial relief in return.

I'll go so far to say after the lockouts over,

1.) you will have a really nice set of players to choose from with teams wanting cap relief and future picks. See list above

2.) amnesty players that other teams won't be able to afford at the discounted level even. Rashard Lewis, Ron Artest, Michael Redd.

Lastly, I think the longer the lockout goes on, its beneficial directly to the Pacers.

1.) System in place to allow them to make money or more money depending on who you believe and therefore stay in Indiana.

2.) The system in place by a longer lockout will be more in the owners favor; therefore, the players salaries will be more restricted; therefore, the cap space the team has becomes even more valueable (pending in how this is phased in and the degree of purse string tightening provoked).

Very Lastly, if theres a full year lost, you drop Brandon and Posey off the payroll, that gives you ANOTHER 10 million of relief.

We could look back on all of this and really realize how smart it was to put yourself in exactly the position that Bird/Morway did coming into a lockout.

BRushWithDeath
07-01-2011, 10:59 AM
People hate on Tyler cause he doesnt have a nice youtube mix w/ Xzibit rapping in the background.

Exactly.

If someone will make a Michael Bay style Youtube highlight video with "Front to Back" blasting through my speakers, I'll totally forgot about the lackluster shooting percentages, defense, rebounding, black hole playing style, and massive inconsistency.

**Full disclosure: I had to Google Xzibit to find the name of one of his songs**

Mackey_Rose
07-01-2011, 11:23 AM
NOW, not was last year. Didn't Bird just strengthen both those positions with the "big" addition of George Hill?

So are you saying Hibbert needs to be replaced as starting Center?

I think adding George Hill was a great move. It does strengthen both guard positions which were easily the team's worst positions last year. Unless he becomes the starting point guard, which I think is entirely possible, I'd say that's still the biggest weakness.

I don't know if Hibbert needs to be replaced, but we shouldn't be thinking that position is taken care of for the foreseeable future.

Unclebuck
07-01-2011, 11:24 AM
People hate on Tyler cause he doesnt have a nice youtube mix w/ Xzibit rapping in the background. I went to a lot of games last year around 20.


Ooh, you caught me. I admit it.

Mackey_Rose
07-01-2011, 11:24 AM
Very Lastly, if theres a full year lost, you drop Brandon and Posey off the payroll, that gives you ANOTHER 10 million of relief.


Is that really how it works? That doesn't sound right to me at all. Why would the final years of their contracts come off the books when they aren't being paid for that final year?

Trader Joe
07-01-2011, 11:26 AM
Is that really how it works? That doesn't sound right to me at all. Why would the final years of their contracts come off the books when they are being paid for that final year?

At the very least you'd think the Pacers would be able to pay them the lump sum value of this year and eliminate the final year of their deals at the end of the lockout if the lockout were to eliminate this entire season.

Mackey_Rose
07-01-2011, 11:28 AM
At the very least you'd think the Pacers would be able to pay them the lump sum value of this year and eliminate the final year of their deals at the end of the lockout if the lockout were to eliminate this entire season.

I suppose a buy-out, like you're suggesting would be possible, but would Herb be willing to pay up for that?

Trader Joe
07-01-2011, 11:32 AM
I suppose a buy-out, like you're suggesting would be possible, but would Herb be willing to pay up for that?

You'd hope so, but who knows. I mean if a season were to happen he'd have to pay it anyway, it just wouldn't be in a lump sum.

EDIT: Of course, I suppose the possibility exists that there is a clause in players contracts that if there is a lockout they forfeit all salary for the time the league is locked out.

Justin Tyme
07-01-2011, 11:41 AM
Is that really how it works? That doesn't sound right to me at all. Why would the final years of their contracts come off the books when they aren't being paid for that final year?


IMO, their contracts state the yearly season. Last season of the contract is 2011-2012. If there is a lockout, no pay. In Posey's case, for every month of the season there is a lockout he loses 1 mil plus. If the season doesn't start until Jan 15, he loses 2 mil. The players are paid from Nov 15 to April 17. That saves Herb 2 mil. If the season is a total loss, it saves Herb all of Posey's 011-012 salary. And Rush's too. Both then become FA for the next season whenever it comes.

Speed
07-01-2011, 11:48 AM
Is that really how it works? That doesn't sound right to me at all. Why would the final years of their contracts come off the books when they aren't being paid for that final year?

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showpost.php?p=1261879&postcount=10

"If the lockout lasts an entire year, what happens to contracts that expire following the 2011-12 season? Do they expire anyway, or does the contract extend through 2012-13?

A contract that is scheduled to expire following the 2011-12 season should expire on June 30, 2012, whether or not the season is played. This means it's possible that 2012 free agents -- like Dwight Howard -- may have already played their last game for their current teams. Nervous teams had the opportunity to make a trade by June 30 to avoid the risk of losing these players without compensation. However, no such trade was completed, which may indicate either some faith in their ability to hang on to their potential free agents, or in the league's ability to resolve the labor dispute before the season is lost. (Sacramento and Cleveland swapped Omri Casspi and J.J. Hickson on Thursday, but neither player's contract ends in 2012.)

It is also possible for the two sides to mutually agree that 2011-12 "didn't happen," so all contracts will simply be pushed back by one year. Therefore this is all subject to negotiation."

I guess they could agree 11-12 didn't happen in this scenario, but it would have to be a special agreement to do so, as shown above.

Lou Bega
07-01-2011, 01:04 PM
Ooh, you caught me. I admit it.

Uncle Buck,
I thought you only listened to screwed and chopped rap music!!!!!

JEM
07-01-2011, 01:20 PM
Tyler H is nothing more than an energy guy. He's a good one,but that's it.

Also,the Pacers' rebounding has to improve. Hans and Hibb aren't cutting it together. Need someone else.

Has there been " just an energy " that scored 20+ points 5 straight games and look good doing it like Hansbrough did?

Its pretty clear to anyone watching the games that Hansbrough has notable basketball skills other than energy / hustle.

JEM
07-01-2011, 01:31 PM
As another poster pointed out.. This is Hansbroughs second season ( first with a lot of play time ) and first real off season. I think some are writing him off to quickly as a potential starter considering he has already done far more than most expected he would do.

Lets see what happens.

pacer4ever
07-01-2011, 05:43 PM
Is that really how it works? That doesn't sound right to me at all. Why would the final years of their contracts come off the books when they aren't being paid for that final year?

This is why Mike Bibby agreed to give away his 6m dollar salary for 2011-2012 to buy out and go chase a ring last year. He was very confident a whole season would be missed.

pacer4ever
07-01-2011, 05:48 PM
Exactly.

If someone will make a Michael Bay style Youtube highlight video with "Front to Back" blasting through my speakers, I'll totally forgot about the lackluster shooting percentages, defense, rebounding, black hole playing style, and massive inconsistency.

**Full disclosure: I had to Google Xzibit to find the name of one of his songs**

i agree 100% we don't hate because of that. That is crazy talk and would be ludicrous. I just hate the way he plays the game the way that if you give him the ball he would rather get blocked than pass. I just like more team basketball and i hate Tyler's style. If he was 6'11 and a good defender and good rebounder i could deal with it but unfortunately he is not.

clownskull
07-01-2011, 07:00 PM
Until he shows me otherwise, I will view him as a "very solid Backup PF that can be a decent short-term Emergency Starting PF".

As some have said before....I'd prefer that he play an "intense/high energy" 24 mpg against the 2nd unit of most Teams while mixing it up with Starting PFs from time to time to change the pace of the game.

IMHO.....he'd be far more effective as a Backup PF then he would be a Starting PF.

i agree with this. i would prefer him as our backup and have a taller pf who can give us some solid minutes at center as well. someone who is a solid 6'10 or taller who can give us some good shot-blocking capability and post defense to help roy. tyler will never be that kind of guy because he just isn't tall enough.

Wylder1324
07-01-2011, 07:26 PM
Since we are discussing points of weakness…..

I think the PG spot is locked up now for the foreseeable future with Collison & Hill……Daren gets a lot of hate for a 2nd year guy at a position that is arguable the toughest to get acclimated to at this level of play. Not to mention the fact that he has actually put up respectable if not what expected numbers in the process.

SG in my eyes is still a weak point in our rotation. I love the Hill signing, and I think he can play spot minutes here, and effectively….but at the end of the day he is 6'3 and really fits in better at PG. Paul George fancies himself a SG, but I see him as a SF over the long haul as Danny continues to age….he is the heir apparent at that position as I see it. The X-Factor could be Lance Stevenson….regardless of TBTB the kid is a SG not a PG….so maybe he shows this season that he is on the right track in his maturation process to warrant some hope here…..but at the moment we have to consider this a position to continue to look for the long term answer.

SF is obviously our strongest position with Danny, Paul and even Jones playing here in stretches…..this is our least worrisome position so I wont wast anytime talking about it.

Ah PF….the much maligned roster spot in our rotation. I agree and disagree with many people on the boards sentiments here. I am a big Hansbrough fan although I am still not decided one way or the other if he is the answer as a starter. He basically missed his entire rookie year with the vertigo problem, not to mention the fact that when he did play he played for "the one we shall not name" Both of those things worked against his development in a big way. He then spent half this past season playing under the same sporadic coaching regime. Lets go ahead and forget about the "undersized" argument. Tyler is 6'9.5. This is combine measurement, not a number thrown out by himself or his agent to make him look better. This is legit NBA PF size…..I think to many people are stuck in the school of thought before he got to the league that ESPN analysts were preaching about him being listed as 6'9 in college but he likely measure out at 6'7 at the combine….he has legit size, get past it. I do worry some about the vertigo's long lasting effects, so that is a concern. He also isn't a high flying, above the rim, shot blocking, rebounding machine…..I think we could use a player like that as well, as either a starter to better complement Roy, or as a spark off the bench, it remains to be seen which would be better…..I think we need to see more of Tyler finally under a consistent coaching staff before making this conclusion. I hope we at least get half a season this year to get a feel for just that. I wont even continue my argument against signing David West….31yo PF coming off major knee surgery….absurd. Nene should have been able to dominate playing with Carmello, Chauncey and co……he didn't….why should we want him now on a bloated long term contract…..not to mention his injury history. Tyson wont leave Dallas unless he's going to another team with equal chance to content….we aren't that team….oh and he is still just a 10/10/2 guy playing with the likes of Chris Paul, Jason Kidd…..2 of the best PGs ever to play the game….do we really want him for the $ he will command anyway? The fact is to get one of these coveted FA PFs everyone is so in love with we will have to overpay not only on their $ value…..but on their value to our team as well…..we are a young exciting team with a good solid nucleus….but we are not ready to contend just yet….so why act like a team that is, and overpay for veterans that will be washed up when our youth is finally coming together and they are just a large burden of a contract with 2years left on the deal? I think we need to be looking at 2 diff options, or some of both. A - good veterans that wont be asking to break the bank to continue to help us make the playoffs so our youth continues to garner playoff experience….guys like: Kirilenko, Chuck Hayes, Kwame Brown or B - guys who are young enough that they can develop with our young guys to hit stride at around the same time such as: Jordan Hill, Varejao, Jason Thompson, Ilyasova, Humphries (if price is right), etc.

As for C I really like Roy….been a little disappointed with his ability to show up in big situations…..but again I want to see him a full season under a new coaching staff. We def need some depth here, I would like to get a guy at PF/C that can play both spots as opposed to another guy like Roy who is regulated to just one position. Foster has at least 1-2 years left I think of effectiveness if we can cut his minutes way down until the playoffs….thats if he chooses to resign. I think McRoberts can play spot minutes here as well, he cant hang with the Dwight Howards of the league…..but lets be honest there aren't THAT many of those types of Centers around anymore. I hope we are able to retain Josh (this was prob better suited for the PF discussion but oh well) I think he is still young enough that he has some real upside with his skillset….crossing my fingers he doesn't get a big deal that we just cant match elsewhere.

At the end of the day I really like where we are headed as a franchise. I think Bird has more than redeemed himself in my eyes from 3-4 years ago. A few questionable moves here and there, but you cant hit a home run every time. I think the move to acquire Hill was great. Hopefully we can fill out our front court rotation without breaking the bank on a soon to be over the hill veteran and I will be happy moving forward.

beast23
07-01-2011, 08:57 PM
Since we are discussing points of weakness...
I like the way you have addressed the question. What the Pacers need to get to the next level (and especially subsequent levels) is not merely a question of wanting or needing a new PF, but rather a question of strengthening areas where we are weak.

It has been very easy for many of us, me included, to look at our front court and state that one of our biggest weaknesses is front court defense. But, certainly part of the reason that our front court defense has been perceived as less than adequate is because they often found themselves in a catch-22 situation attempting to cover for perimeter players that were not able to contain their men. It's pretty difficult to prevent your own man from being positioned at the rim when you are drawn out a step or two to pick up a penetrating guard.

But, in the playoffs we were able to learn that George is a very good man-on-man defensive player. With that as a starting point, I am confident that he will quickly learn to also be a good "team defender" on the perimeter as well. We recently picked up Hill who is a very good perimeter defender and will prove helpful in defending at both guard positions. Personally, I hope we keep DJones around for awhile because he is also a very good perimeter defender. So, we have either acquired players or I am confident that our current roster is capable of providing a player at either guard position that is able to provide very good defense. However, we do have Collison that will be playing a lot of minutes at the point, so his perimeter defense must still be viewed as a source of weakness.

Offensively, the guard positions must become a more consistent in both scoring and facilitating the offense. I believe that George will continue to improve and will actually become more consistent at both ends of the floor, and I believe that a full season under Vogel might help Collison to become a better facilitator. Of course, the acquisition of Hill will also help stabilize the point production and playmaking in the backcourt.

Obviously, I am a firm believer that any perceived weaknesses in the backcourt will be improved upon in the coming season... if we have a season anyway. Our backcourt problems will not by any means be completely resolved, but we will know a lot more about our capabilities at the conclusion of next season than we know now. So, with the acquisition of Hill, we haven't made a major move, but have certainly accomplished an important "tweak". If this is our only backcourt acquisition, it will prove to be a good one because I think Hill will help Collison and George grow and will certainly help stabilize the backcourt.

As for SF, I don't think Danny is going anywhere, nor would I want or expect him to go anywhere. From an offensive standpoint, he consistently produces, although I would encourage him to seek more of his points from mid-range or even at the rim. Defensively, my hope is that more offensive production from his teammates will make Danny feel as though he can expend as much energy on the defensive end of the court as he does offensively. But regardless of how Granger plays, I would never state that SF is a source of weakness for the Pacers. And, Granger can be capably backed up by George or even DJones for short stretches.

That leaves us with the front court. The plain and simple opinion that I have regarding our front court is that we do not have a starting pair that can provide consistent scoring and rebounding while also combining to provide the level of defense that will enable us to achieve the next level or two it is not capable of providing consistent point production. I believe that Hibbert and Hansbrough can coexist with respect to their offensive games... and just like our backcourt, these two guys could be expected to gain more offensive consistency as they mature.

Unfortunately, I cannot agree with those that believe that the combined defensive game of Hibbert/Hansbrough can be considered adequate, or for that matter, will ever mature to anything that will ever closely resemble adequate.

As defenders, clear and simple, they do not fit well together from a defensive perspective. And that would even consider the additional help they might receive as our backcourt players mature and learn to prevent lane penetration. I believe that either one could start, but that the other would need to be replaced with a stronger defensive presence. Considering that I think TPTB probably values Hibbert as the more probable long-term solution at his position, I think that the best alternative for strengthening the front court is to either acquire a PF that scores so darn many points that defense is no longer as important, or that we acquire a more rounded PF that provides a respectable scoring and rebounding presence while also providing very good defense.

I think one thing should be made clear. The acquisition of Hill along with the continuing maturity of our younger players may be enough to enable the Pacers to eventually climb to a 5th seed or so, but without a front court that fits together better, I see dim prospects for the Pacers climbing into 2nd or 3rd seed territory.

Without being able to man flat-out scorers at just about every position on the court, a team that expects to go deep into the playoffs must be able to have lineups well-balanced with offensive and defensive abilities. We have perimeter players that might be able to provide that. But I do not believe we have a combination of players capable of providing that in our front court.

With that understanding, my opinion is that front court defense is our area of biggest need. And, with the opinion that TPTB values Hibbert far more than any of our front court players, I believe that the position perceived by TPTB to be able to provide the biggest boost for shoring up our front court weaknesses is PF.

Lou Bega
07-02-2011, 09:05 AM
Nobody on here is even questioning the fact that Tyler cant improve his game. Critics of his game need to realize this even Blake Griffen & Paul George have faults in their game. Paul George cant take anybody to the rack even Brian Scalebrini and Griffen cant shoot 17 footers like Tyler. The NBA is a great league of & every player in it gets burned a time or two.

The key to this team IMO is DC. He needs to get stronger. He needs to be able to penetrate. Lance can do this but he also has no problem driving into 4 defenders and turning the ball over. He also has a problem getting in the game.

I really hope George Hill can defend and hit open shots as advertised and b/c the Tyler was our top mid range scorer last year. That is not a good sign when your PF is a better shooting option than the SG.

When it is all said & down Tyler will have a better career than Blake Griffen.

Justin Tyme
07-02-2011, 09:47 AM
When it is all said & down Tyler will have a better career than Blake Griffen.



Thanks for the laugh so early in my day!

MUpaceSIC
07-02-2011, 10:22 AM
When it is all said & down Tyler will have a better career than Blake Griffen.

My suggestion is that you get a new username, and try to build back your reputation after this comment.

(just messing with you)

LA_Confidential
07-02-2011, 10:27 AM
Im praying we get NENE. He adds size and skills to our already promising core. That does not mean I dont like Tyler. Adding NENE allows us to maximize a player like Tylers effectiveness and impact on the game. I am happy with the way this team is building. We are a true team. We will be deep and able to compete over the long haul.

Lou Bega
07-02-2011, 11:52 AM
Tyler has playoff experience something Blake has yet to taste. I AM FIRM believer in hansbrough. I dont knock posters when they really believe DG33 is not a better b-baller than Paul George.

pizza guy
07-02-2011, 11:53 AM
Tyler is coming off his second season after a truncated first season where he dealt with injuries and rehab. Tyler had games this year that made everyone on this forum love him, and games that made everyone hate him. That's the life of a young player.

What we know is that this team is full of hard workers. Roy, PG, DG, Foster, Hill, and Hansbrough are all hard workers, and my guess is that the whole team feels the same way as Granger after being in the playoffs, and they all want to improve so they can go back. Tyler averaged 14/6 as a starter in what you could almost consider his rookie season. He's strong, he's got tremendous work ethic, and a great attitude.

I am confident that he's going to improve his game along with DC and George and Roy, and those four will all become very good players. Add in Granger and Hill and some solid backups, and we've got a very good team assuming these guys can reach their potential.

The other side of the coin is that I feel SG is a much bigger area of need than PF. If we could add a dynamic, and I mean top tier, SG then the rest of this roster is perfectly fine. If we add a real superstar at any position, then the rest of this roster is perfectly fine.

I guess my point is, I don't know what you guys want. It's pretty obvious that no one on this team is a natural superstar like LeBron, DRose, or John Wall. But I think it's also obvious that these guys are also pretty good ball players in need of one really good ball player. Whether that comes at PF, PG, SG, or waterboy, the rest of the team is pretty good. It's not about a specific position any more, it's about a specific talent level.

ECKrueger
07-02-2011, 12:00 PM
When it is all said & down Tyler will have a better career than Blake Griffen.

Now, I don't think Tyler will ever be a better player than Blake, but I do think it is possible he could have a better career when all is said and done.

pwee31
07-02-2011, 12:10 PM
Hansbrough is my favorite player on the team. I have no problem with him being the starting PF, but I would like a hybrid PF/C like Nene or Jefferson that we could slide to center if Hibbert is in foul trouble, needing a breather, or just having an off spurt.

If you can go from Nene/Hibbert to Hansbrough/Hibbert or Hansbrough/Nene, those are great options to have in my opinion

Hicks
07-02-2011, 12:30 PM
Divide 96 minutes at the 4/5 between Nene, Hansbrough, and Hibbert.

Dgreenwell3
07-02-2011, 12:41 PM
Dc is an off guard in a PGs body. You can't teach unselfishness

troyc11a
07-02-2011, 12:51 PM
Hansbrough is my favorite player on the team. I have no problem with him being the starting PF, but I would like a hybrid PF/C like Nene or Jefferson that we could slide to center if Hibbert is in foul trouble, needing a breather, or just having an off spurt.

If you can go from Nene/Hibbert to Hansbrough/Hibbert or Hansbrough/Nene, those are great options to have in my opinion

Excellent point concerning a hybrid 4/5. I have felt that way since the season ended. I would not care if they picked up a lower profile player who doesnt cost as much because he is not as good of an offensive threat. My main concern is defense, shot blocking, and rebounding. Get someone who is a 4/5 who can do those things and I think this team is really in for a good year!
I just dont think offense is an issue at the 4 or 5. I fully expect Roy and Tyler to keep improving because they are high character guys who work really hard. Those guys rarely fail!

pwee31
07-02-2011, 01:31 PM
Divide 96 minutes at the 4/5 between Nene, Hansbrough, and Hibbert.

That would be ideal, that's roughly 32 minutes a piece. You could ride a hot hand for longer, or work with foul trouble. Toss in a 4th like Foster or McRoberts to less the load, or provide some energy off the bench.

PG: Collison, Stephenson, Price
SG: George, Hill, Rush
SF: Granger, Dahntay, Posey
PF: Nene, Hansbrough, McRoberts
C: Hibbert, Foster

There's a lot of interchangeable parts and versatility with that lineup, and still a roster spot open if needed, still room to move or upgrade a couple positions if needed, but you'll need 3 players in street clothes each night as well.

I don't think you give Nene a max deal, but if you can make that signing happen, without having to trade away other core pieces, you have to try and make that type of move

JEM
07-02-2011, 01:33 PM
Hansbrough is my favorite player on the team. I have no problem with him being the starting PF, but I would like a hybrid PF/C like Nene or Jefferson that we could slide to center if Hibbert is in foul trouble, needing a breather, or just having an off spurt.

If you can go from Nene/Hibbert to Hansbrough/Hibbert or Hansbrough/Nene, those are great options to have in my opinion

This is why I would be ok if the Pacers somehow got Nene.