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graphic-er
06-29-2011, 04:59 PM
I see alot of threads on players who are back up centers, and i see alot of people poo pooing all over these players. So lets make an all in one back up center thread.

Pacers certainly need a back up center.
What is the main criteria for a back up center?

Just be tall and willing to move, and play hard, protect the paint with solid fouls.

So then why is every one poo pooing guys like Aaron Gray, or Krylo Fesenko, Alex Ajinca?

BigAndy
06-29-2011, 05:06 PM
Stanko

CableKC
06-29-2011, 05:20 PM
So then why is every one poo pooing guys like Aaron Gray, or Krylo Fesenko, Alex Ajinca?
I guess the question of who we get as a backup Center is based off of 2 things:

1 ) Are we going to get a Starting PF that can play some backup Center minutes?

2 ) Is there any intention to bring over Stanko anytime between now and the 2012-2013 season?

To me...both of those factors determine what we do with the Backup Center position.

If the answer to both those questions is YES, then I want to get a Stop-Gap Backup Center that can fill the "void" until Stanko comes over to fill that role for us. To me, Stanko is the Backup Center that I am looking for.

dlewyus
06-29-2011, 05:49 PM
I don't see why everyone is so dead set on a backup center. I think we need a starting center. If we had a good starting center, Roy Hibbert would be the best backup center in the league. That team would win alot of games. I think this might be Bird's plan also. He said he wanted the best bench in the league. That would be a good place to start.

ECKrueger
06-29-2011, 05:54 PM
Good luck with that. Who do you have in mind? I don't think we are going to get someone better than Roy very easily.

31andonly
06-29-2011, 05:56 PM
I'd say we should

1. keep Foster and mcbob
2. go for stanko and
3. wait until next year to sign a big name free agent

ECKrueger
06-29-2011, 05:58 PM
Agreed. We are not going to suddenly become a complete team with no holes in one offseason. We should do our best, and only make smart moves. I would rather take it slow and steady.

A.B.Hollywood
06-29-2011, 06:01 PM
I'd say we should

1. keep Foster and mcbob
2. go for stanko and
3. wait until next year to sign a big name free agent

People are talking about next years Free Agent class like it is a god send. What pray tell are the Pacers realistically going to go after in 2012 thats so much better than the crop of Bigs in 2011?

And no, we can't get Dwight. Try again.

Young
06-29-2011, 06:23 PM
Good luck with that. Who do you have in mind? I don't think we are going to get someone better than Roy very easily.

Exactly.

I do not understand why people are so quick to just give up on Roy. He is a talented player who works hard. He is only what like 24 years old? Big men take a while to develop.

Roy has his flaws and no he won't be perfect but he will get better. He is a legit starting center. Those are VERY hard to find in the NBA today.

I think some need to start to appreciate Roy for what brings and not what he doesn't. He has some things he needs to improve on but a little patience would go a long way.

SMosley21
06-29-2011, 06:25 PM
People are talking about next years Free Agent class like it is a god send. What pray tell are the Pacers realistically going to go after in 2012 thats so much better than the crop of Bigs in 2011?

And no, we can't get Dwight. Try again.

Kevin Garnett, Elton Brand and Chris Kaman are the 3 best bigs in next summers free agent class. Brand and Kaman both have a history of injuries and both will demand upwards of $10 mil+ per season. Garnett is starting to break down and wouldn't come here if he was held at gunpoint. I'd rather go after this summer's free agents if I had to. I'd still prefer to use our cap room with smart trades though.

CableKC
06-29-2011, 06:44 PM
I don't see why everyone is so dead set on a backup center. I think we need a starting center. If we had a good starting center, Roy Hibbert would be the best backup center in the league. That team would win alot of games. I think this might be Bird's plan also. He said he wanted the best bench in the league. That would be a good place to start.
You think that Bird intends to push Hibbert back to play in the 2nd unit?

Why not apply this logic to the rest of our current Starting lineup?

Sorry, but despite having some reservations about Hibbert after the ASB and his performance in the Playoffs....I just don't think that the Pacers would be best served to put Hibbert in the 2nd unit while looking for another Starting Quality Center.

A.B.Hollywood
06-29-2011, 06:48 PM
Kevin Garnett, Elton Brand and Chris Kaman are the 3 best bigs in next summers free agent class. Brand and Kaman both have a history of injuries and both will demand upwards of $10 mil+ per season. Garnett is starting to break down and wouldn't come here if he was held at gunpoint.

EXACTLY

People keep saying "wait till next year" because they heard on ESPN that next years class is better. But for the Pacers that's simply not true.

We'd sit on our money, then have to extend the players we already have (including G3) and be completely stuck with less options, less money and one less year of progress with whatever player we'd snag now because of it.

Next thing you know we are throwing Boris Diaw some 9 million dollar per season GIFT.

Yeah, uhh... I'll pass.

CableKC
06-29-2011, 06:54 PM
Kevin Garnett, Elton Brand and Chris Kaman are the 3 best bigs in next summers free agent class. Brand and Kaman both have a history of injuries and both will demand upwards of $10 mil+ per season. Garnett is starting to break down and wouldn't come here if he was held at gunpoint. I'd rather go after this summer's free agents if I had to. I'd still prefer to use our cap room with smart trades though.
Brand has a ETO on his contract...he won't give that up.

I think that we will outright sign either a Starting SG, PF or a Backup Center ( whether it be Foster or not )....but I agree with you that I think that Bird will use the Capspace in trades where the Team absorbs another Team's contract.

NapTonius Monk
06-29-2011, 07:00 PM
I keep forgetting how frustrated I used to get with Smits before he really blossomed. We have to be patient with Roy. We can't give up on him just because he hasn't 'arrived' in 2 seasons.

wintermute
06-29-2011, 07:08 PM
Btw, Nazr Mohammed is off the market. Signed a one year, $3.75m extension with OKC.

SMosley21
06-29-2011, 07:10 PM
I keep forgetting how frustrated I used to get with Smits before he really blossomed. We have to be patient with Roy. We can't give up on him just because he hasn't 'arrived' in 2 seasons.

I was always frustrated with Smits, simply because he was 7'4" and couldn't rebound or block shots at the rate that I feel someone that size should.

Anthem
06-29-2011, 07:58 PM
Stanko and McBob.

Save the money for a PF.

graphic-er
06-29-2011, 09:10 PM
Stanko and McBob.

Save the money for a PF.

I'd be fine with that too. I'd almost prefer to buy out Stanko's contract than sign an underwhelming big, if guys like Darko can get 5-6 million a year then bringing over Stanko for this season is almost a bargin, buyout or not.

Though I wouldn't mind signing Fesenko though, he has legit size and was somewhat productive as Okur's replacement.

Justin Tyme
06-29-2011, 09:10 PM
I have a different view about FA than 99% of you. I'm not an advocate of FA. Never have been. I'd far rather trade for a player, but since we are talking only about a b/u Center who will play 15-18 minutes FA is an option.

Kwame Brown (FA) is a player that rebs and plays "D". I would believe he should be able to be gotten in the 2-3 mil per year range. Yes, I know the sterotype about being a 1st pick bust, but he had a good season as a starter for Paul Silas. Again, we are taking about Kwame being a b/u Center. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he can play a little PF too.

graphic-er
06-29-2011, 09:11 PM
I was always frustrated with Smits, simply because he was 7'4" and couldn't rebound or block shots at the rate that I feel someone that size should.

Right about the time Smits started to blossom his feet started to flatten. Very hard to jump and play solid D with that condition.

Justin Tyme
06-29-2011, 09:14 PM
Though I wouldn't mind signing Fesenko though, he has legit size and was somewhat productive as Okur's replacement.


NO NO! The Pacers have players that shoot better 3 pt% than Fesenko does FT! 38-40%. He has to be the worst FT shooting big in the NBA.

cdash
06-29-2011, 09:31 PM
I want to bring back Jeff Foster. What more do you need out of a backup center?

Pacerized
06-29-2011, 09:31 PM
Foster has proven that he still has what it takes. I don't think we need to look any farther for the next 2 years. Stanko might be a good replacement for Solo. If we pick up the right big man to start at PF that can also play center I think we'd be set int he front court for next year.

PacerGuy
06-29-2011, 10:21 PM
-Throw a hail-marry at T.Chandler & H.Nene & hope one bites.
-Bring in K.Brown for n/y after being turned down by TC & HN.
-Bring back Jeff for a 1 yr deal + a 1 yr team option.
-Bring back McBob if the price is right
-Bring in Stanko in '12 (he will play in Europe t/y, esp w/ the lockout).

troyc11a
06-29-2011, 10:51 PM
I have a different view about FA than 99% of you. I'm not an advocate of FA. Never have been. I'd far rather trade for a player, but since we are talking only about a b/u Center who will play 15-18 minutes FA is an option.

Kwame Brown (FA) is a player that rebs and plays "D". I would believe he should be able to be gotten in the 2-3 mil per year range. Yes, I know the sterotype about being a 1st pick bust, but he had a good season as a starter for Paul Silas. Again, we are taking about Kwame being a b/u Center. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he can play a little PF too.

I think you make some sense here. KB can be had for a decent contract and then other pieces could be added. This team needs to add a couple more pieces like Hill. Is Kwame that type of player?
Also, I believe you build a team by letting the core group stay together for a long period of time. Filling in the pieces with good veteran role players could allow the core: Collison, Hill, George, Granger, Hans, Hibbert to gell into a strong nucleus. Bird said he wanted to have the best bench in the league. Signings like 1. Kwame Brown and 2. Either Chuck Hayes or AK47 could go a long way. Plus that would still leave room for bringing back Foster.
Imagine a 2nd unit:
pg: Hill
sg: D. Jones
C: K. Brown
PF: Hayes
SF: Kirilenko

* Could you imagine a better defensive 2nd unit than that???? Close to 50 wins next year and even better as the team gells in the future!

15th parallel
06-29-2011, 11:01 PM
Nominating Chuck Hayes here as a backup C.

I don't know if he's an FA. I just became a fan of his when I added him in my fantasy lineup and just contributed more than I expected, stat-wise.

He's been a known good defender for a center lacking size, and just has a nose for the ball grabbing rebounds. And he has good enough court vision to contribute some assists. He'll be a perfect guy either next to Roy or to play as his main backup.

Anthem
06-29-2011, 11:05 PM
If we could sign Kwame, we'd finally have a top-5 pick on the roster. CHAM-PYON-SHIP.

KingGeorge
06-29-2011, 11:09 PM
What about Samuel Dalembert?

PR07
06-29-2011, 11:55 PM
I think we have our backup center in Jeff Foster. However, I wouldn't mind finding another guy (maybe McRoberts?) to spell some of his minutes in the regular season to keep his balky back fresh for the playoffs.

Trophy
06-29-2011, 11:58 PM
I wouldn't be against re-signing Josh to play backup center, but I want us to get a pure center and I've liked Kwame Brown.

Trophy
06-29-2011, 11:59 PM
What about Samuel Dalembert?

No way he's signs just to be a backup when he can start with the Heat or Knicks.

KingGeorge
06-30-2011, 12:02 AM
No way he's signs just to be a backup when he can start with the Heat or Knicks.

That's true.

joeyd
06-30-2011, 12:47 AM
I like Foster as the backup center, but we do need to replace S Jones. The third big factors in when Roy picks up the 2 quick fouls. Then Jeff is called on for some minutes early. Jeff is certainly capable of 20 minutes per game, and can go longer every so often, but when he has to go for more than a quarter at a clip. In these circumstances, he understandably gets a bit gassed. So we need a third big if only to spell Jeff under those conditions. Would be great to get someone raw but with the physical tools so Jeff can groom him as an eventual replacement. Nothing new with that idea though.

imbtyler
06-30-2011, 03:13 AM
I want to bring back Jeff Foster. What more do you need out of a backup center?

At least a little more athleticism, youth, or explosiveness. Only one is necessary, but all three would be nice.

You know, like DeAndre Jordan, JaVale McGee, or healthy Greg Oden.

CableKC
06-30-2011, 04:01 AM
What about Samuel Dalembert?
I'd love Dalembert....but the problem is that I think that we're going to sign a Starting PF that can play some Backup Center minutes....then the backup Center would likely get minimal but consistent minutes.

PF
- Maybe Nene? ( 22-24 mpg at the Starting PF spot )
- Hansbrough ( 24-26 mpg at the Backup PF spot )
Center
- Hibbert ( 30-32 mpg at the Starting Center spot )
- Maybe Nene? ( 8-10 mpg at the Backup Center Spot )
- Backup Center? ( 6-12 mpg at the Backup Center spot )

So, at least to me, if we are to get a Starting PF that can play some backup Minutes at the Center spot...then we are looking at a Backup Center that can play anywhere between 6 to 12 mpg...depending on how many minutes the primary PF/C rotation plays.

Justin Tyme
06-30-2011, 11:28 AM
What about Samuel Dalembert?



He won't come cheap, I don't feel he would accept being a b/u for 15 minutes with ther Pacers, and some team who needs a starter will sign him to $$$$ as a starter.

Justin Tyme
06-30-2011, 11:32 AM
I think that we're going to sign a Starting PF that can play some Backup Center minutes.....



Are the Pacers acquiring Anderson Varejao? :dance: :happydanc

D-BONE
06-30-2011, 12:07 PM
I don't see why everyone is so dead set on a backup center. I think we need a starting center. If we had a good starting center, Roy Hibbert would be the best backup center in the league. That team would win alot of games. I think this might be Bird's plan also. He said he wanted the best bench in the league. That would be a good place to start.

Well, if we can, in fact, acquire a legit C that displaces Roy, I'd be all for it. RH would be a dynamite b/u C.

D-BONE
06-30-2011, 12:15 PM
I'd love Dalembert....but the problem is that I think that we're going to sign a Starting PF that can play some Backup Center minutes....then the backup Center would likely get minimal but consistent minutes.



Dalembert may not come here under any circumstances, but if he were at all interested, I'd be enticing him with the starter's role. Again, Hibbert would be outstanding as a second unit big. Or, then trade Hibbert for something else.

Also, consider, Hibbert & Hans may not strike as an ideal starting 4/5 combo, but in a pinch, Dalembert + Hans sounds a lot better. Rebounding & Shotblocking covered by SD, assuming he's motivated.

Only thing with Dalembert is the price tag and possible allure of other destinations. However, if I were going to have to overpay any of the guys we've talked ad nauseum about - Nene, West, Jordan, and the like - I think Dalembert would be a relatively safe one. We know what we'll get.

Personally, I think for all the Dale Davis banter, this is the guy who most equates to that style. Rugged, long, athletic, defender & rebounder, tough attitude. And, not to be overlooked, decent offensive game he's slowly developed.

cdash
06-30-2011, 10:05 PM
At least a little more athleticism, youth, or explosiveness. Only one is necessary, but all three would be nice.

You know, like DeAndre Jordan, JaVale McGee, or healthy Greg Oden.

What you just described was a starting center. Those guys are starting centers, or at least guys who will get paid like starters.

GizzyStardust
07-01-2011, 03:17 AM
I'd love Dalembert....but the problem is that I think that we're going to sign a Starting PF that can play some Backup Center minutes....then the backup Center would likely get minimal but consistent minutes.

PF
- Maybe Nene? ( 22-24 mpg at the Starting PF spot )
- Hansbrough ( 24-26 mpg at the Backup PF spot )
Center
- Hibbert ( 30-32 mpg at the Starting Center spot )
- Maybe Nene? ( 8-10 mpg at the Backup Center Spot )
- Backup Center? ( 6-12 mpg at the Backup Center spot )

So, at least to me, if we are to get a Starting PF that can play some backup Minutes at the Center spot...then we are looking at a Backup Center that can play anywhere between 6 to 12 mpg...depending on how many minutes the primary PF/C rotation plays.


To me, this makes the most sense. Paying a 10+ million salary to a player as versatile as Nene (potentially) and then retaining Foster for a reasonable contract compliments both Roy and Tyler pretty nicely as well as fills most of our front court holes. Throw in an extra big like Stanko or Josh and you have a nice big man rotation, just as you described.

Combined with the Hill acquisition, that would leave us with a very well-rounded roster that is solid at every position. Just the right mix of young, developing talent and veteran savvy to (hopefully) make us an exciting franchise for many years to come. It would also leave us with a lot of reasonably priced trade assets, should we look to make another deal in the future, and hopefully still enough cap flexibility to resign the young players when their rookie contracts expire.

What a pleasant dream, anyhow...

pwee31
07-02-2011, 11:59 AM
If we could sign Kwame, we'd finally have a top-5 pick on the roster. CHAM-PYON-SHIP.

Dunleavy was pick #3? Just saying

pwee31
07-02-2011, 12:05 PM
I'm personally hoping for a PF/C hybrid type of player. A guy you can start next to Roy, but also move to center if Roy is in foul trouble or you need a breather.

I think a Nene or Al Jefferson type of player would be idea, and than you could keep Foster as that backup energy guy you only need spot minutes from.

I wouldn't be opposed to McRoberts being that PF type either who backs up Hansbrough and a Nene or Jefferson type, as he can provide a different look and solid minutes in case of foul trouble, injury, etc...

Scot Pollard
07-02-2011, 12:41 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_u_MkL96BJ_c/SaJBxe26qWI/AAAAAAAAAVk/4o45wu51KQg/s320/act_robert_swift.jpg

Tom White
07-02-2011, 01:21 PM
I was always frustrated with Smits, simply because he was 7'4" and couldn't rebound or block shots at the rate that I feel someone that size should.

Or play defense and still committed what I thought were dumb (awkward?) fouls. I agree. He almost seemed to be a very tall small forward.

Tom White
07-02-2011, 01:24 PM
I have a different view about FA than 99% of you. I'm not an advocate of FA. Never have been. I'd far rather trade for a player, but since we are talking only about a b/u Center who will play 15-18 minutes FA is an option.

Kwame Brown (FA) is a player that rebs and plays "D". I would believe he should be able to be gotten in the 2-3 mil per year range. Yes, I know the sterotype about being a 1st pick bust, but he had a good season as a starter for Paul Silas. Again, we are taking about Kwame being a b/u Center. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he can play a little PF too.

I think Brown still gets undue grief from his time being belittled by Jordan every day.

Justin Tyme
07-02-2011, 07:43 PM
I think Brown still gets undue grief from his time being belittled by Jordan every day.


Kwame Brown got to laugh at MJ's GM abilities which aren't anything to try and brag about. IMO, Brown will be able to laugh at MJ's ownership ability as well when it's over and done with.

mildlysane
07-02-2011, 09:33 PM
I think you make some sense here. KB can be had for a decent contract and then other pieces could be added. This team needs to add a couple more pieces like Hill. Is Kwame that type of player?
Also, I believe you build a team by letting the core group stay together for a long period of time. Filling in the pieces with good veteran role players could allow the core: Collison, Hill, George, Granger, Hans, Hibbert to gell into a strong nucleus. Bird said he wanted to have the best bench in the league. Signings like 1. Kwame Brown and 2. Either Chuck Hayes or AK47 could go a long way. Plus that would still leave room for bringing back Foster.
Imagine a 2nd unit:
pg: Hill
sg: D. Jones
C: K. Brown
PF: Hayes
SF: Kirilenko

* Could you imagine a better defensive 2nd unit than that???? Close to 50 wins next year and even better as the team gells in the future!
Nice. Pretty versatile with Hill being a 1-2, Hayes 4-5, AK47 3-4, KB 4-5 and Djones 2-3

LA_Confidential
07-02-2011, 10:13 PM
Many may disagree but Nene gets 10millon Easily if im Bird. He is versatile enough to play both big spots at a high clip every night. Roy, Nene, Tyler, Jeff and Josh in the Solo role is good enough for me.

Pacemaker
07-02-2011, 10:39 PM
Are the Pacers acquiring Anderson Varejao? :dance: :happydanc

Is he available ? He's hard-nosed and smashmouth !!

Strummer
07-02-2011, 10:40 PM
I remember in one of the recent pressers, Larry said he should know by July 1st if Stanko is coming over this year or next. But I haven't heard anything more since then and he probably can't comment because of the lockout. Maybe Stanko was planning to buy out his contract but only if there was no lockout. Probably doesn't make sense for him to buy it out if there isn't an NBA season this year.

But anyway, I'd be happy with Foster/Stanko as backup centers. If I can't have that then I'll take Foster/McRoberts.

CableKC
07-03-2011, 12:54 AM
I remember in one of the recent pressers, Larry said he should know by July 1st if Stanko is coming over this year or next. But I haven't heard anything more since then and he probably can't comment because of the lockout. Maybe Stanko was planning to buy out his contract but only if there was no lockout. Probably doesn't make sense for him to buy it out if there isn't an NBA season this year.

But anyway, I'd be happy with Foster/Stanko as backup centers. If I can't have that then I'll take Foster/McRoberts.
I think that you hit the nail on the head.....maybe the key was that by July 1st, we would know whether there is a lockout or not and therefore whether Stanko would be coming over or not.

I'd hope that if Stanko was intending to come over but can't because of the lockout that the FO look at a replacement for Solo with a very small 1 year contract.