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View Full Version : Who would you rather have: Nene or West?



The Future
06-28-2011, 11:16 AM
Simple question, Nene or West?

I'm a big fan of Nene, I would rather go after him. Dude is a beast down low and that's what we need.

West is more of a pick and pop shooter at the PF position.

PacerPenguins
06-28-2011, 11:18 AM
no question about it.... if nene doesnt sign an extension.... u go after him... nene by far

Smits Happens
06-28-2011, 11:23 AM
If everything else is equal it's Nene easily, but if you add in the contracts they'll demand it's a whole different discussion. Hard to vote without knowing the financial ramifications.

ChristianDudley
06-28-2011, 11:24 AM
Nene--he's more of a post player whereas West likes to play midrange and nail those J's all day long...Tyler is already a master at that midrange, and we could use more battling in the post--I'd say Nene. I also go with Nene because even though he had that cancer problem a couple years ago, it seems as he is freed from that thankfully, but David West just had a major knee injury and who knows how he'll look when he comes back--he could be perfectly fine, or it could signal the end of his best years in the league. Ever since Nene's serious health condition, I believe that he's played the best basketball of his career up until now. I'd say that for now, I would prefer Nene Hilario.

edit: but as said above, depending on the money, my opinion could change.

Unclebuck
06-28-2011, 11:26 AM
it is just officially Nene. Hilario was dropped several years ago.

I would go after Nene for sure

Ownagedood
06-28-2011, 11:27 AM
Nene, I think we need the guy we get to want to play down low. I find that more important to this team then "stretching" the defense out by having the PF be a shooter and stand 15+ ft away from the basket. I rather our PF be somewhat of a banger, get rebounds and score inside.

If Tyler improves or if Hibbert gets 2 or more rpg this year we will be in great shape no matter who we get.

redfoster
06-28-2011, 11:27 AM
Nene please. I don't want anything to do with West now.

vnzla81
06-28-2011, 11:35 AM
Nene hands down, is not even close.

Edit: I meant to vote for Nene and voted for Dwest instead :(

Brad8888
06-28-2011, 11:36 AM
I would try for both. We have plenty of ammunition to do so, and we could end up possibly trading Granger and Hansbrough to get Nene' if it takes a S&T to do so and take a chance on West still having the ability to hit shots and get up despite his status of still being in recovery from his ACL surgery. The lockout will definitely help him fully recover. The frontcourt rotation would be complete at that point, and there would be firepower from all points on the court.

If I had to pick one, Nene' would be my choice.

vnzla81
06-28-2011, 11:42 AM
I would try for both. We have plenty of ammunition to do so, and we could end up possibly trading Granger and Hansbrough to get Nene' if it takes a S&T to do so and take a chance on West still having the ability to hit shots and get up despite his status of still being in recovery from his ACL surgery. The lockout will definitely help him fully recover. The frontcourt rotation would be complete at that point, and there would be firepower from all points on the court.

If I had to pick one, Nene' would be my choice.

Hans and Danny for Nene and then sign West?....... I think I rather pass and wait for something else then.

ballism
06-28-2011, 11:43 AM
Nene if money is the same. It won't be the same though.

Pacergeek
06-28-2011, 12:01 PM
Nene doesn't miss.

vnzla81
06-28-2011, 12:15 PM
Nene if money is the same. It won't be the same though.

I doesn't matter if is not the same, Nene is younger and better, if we are going to trow away 9/10 mil to sign a one leg player in West I rather we sign Nene even if he cost more.

Gamble1
06-28-2011, 12:17 PM
I doesn't matter if is not the same, Nene is younger and better, if we are going to trow away 9/10 mil to sign a one leg player in West I rather we sign Nene even if he cost more.
We go from a guy with one leg to another with one ball...:p

Sounds great to me. Also Nene could get close the max under the new CBA.

vnzla81
06-28-2011, 12:27 PM
We go from a guy with one leg to another with one ball...:p

Sounds great to me. Also Nene could get close the max under the new CBA.

I rather pay Nene max than pay Dwest anything, he is not what we need and is damage goods.

PR07
06-28-2011, 12:30 PM
Nene is a much better fit. He's bigger, stronger and is a better inside player. That coupled with the fact that he can play center makes him a more valuable player than West.

West honestly reminds me a lot of Hansbrough. He rebounds better, but offensively, he's never struck me as more than a pick in roll mid range jump shooter. That doesn't mean he can't go inside, but that's the bread and butter of his offensive game. Tyler is starting to become that same type of player if you watched the playoffs.

ballism
06-28-2011, 12:30 PM
I rather pay Nene max than pay Dwest anything, he is not what we need and is damage goods.

No matter what one thinks about West, Nene is not a max player. It would be a fail.

I Love P
06-28-2011, 12:37 PM
Marc Gasol.

vnzla81
06-28-2011, 12:38 PM
No matter what one thinks about West, Nene is not a max player. It would be a fail.

And West is not a 10mil a year player, that would be a bigger fail ;)

Professor S
06-28-2011, 12:40 PM
Nene every day, and twice on Sunday.

A ten man primary rotation of Collison, Hill, George, Granger, Nene, Hansbrough, Hibbert, Foster, McRoberts, and Jones with assistance from Rush and a hopefully improving Stephenson does some serious damage in the Eastern Conference, and gives us so much defensive flexibility.

ballism
06-28-2011, 12:41 PM
West has played like a 10 mil+ player for many years. You can argue about future, although I'd much rather hear a qualified opinion from someone directly involved than spend time speculating.
Nene has never played like a max player.

Really?
06-28-2011, 01:12 PM
This should be like basketball, the votes are past 12-0... West has officially been shunk.. thread done, lol

Anthem
06-28-2011, 02:21 PM
Wow. 61 to 6, and one of the 6 was a typo.

Gamble1
06-28-2011, 02:21 PM
I rather pay Nene max than pay Dwest anything, he is not what we need and is damage goods.
So you would rather pay Nene who has had an ACL tear and cancer max money when the guy has never averaged a double double in his career. In fact his career averages for rebounds are lower than West even though West has never played close to the basket the majority of his career and has had really good rebounders around him.

Given the cost of Nene I think its a moot point. All signs point to him not being on the market so why have so many post about an option that won't be there.

CableKC
06-28-2011, 02:32 PM
Given the cost of Nene I think its a moot point. All signs point to him not being on the market so why have so many post about an option that won't be there.
Cuz we'd rather choose the option that won't likely be there rather then the option that would be there? ;)

neosmndrew
06-28-2011, 02:33 PM
How often does Nene play at PF? He's listed as a PF/C, but what other center did Denver have the past few seasons that would cause him to play as a PF? As long as Nene is comfortable as PF, i'd rather have him. Him + Roy = very big, powerful front line.

A.B.Hollywood
06-28-2011, 02:42 PM
This is dumb. OF COURSE we want the younger more athletic player not still recovering from knee surgery. In that context this question should never have even been posed.

But related to that I find it laughable that people here think 8 million for 3 or 4 years for a medically cleared and tested David West is somehow worse than a max deal for Nene.

Who by the way had the very same surgery David West just had a few years ago.

Ugh.

Trophy
06-28-2011, 02:54 PM
For real?

Nene and I'd even offer a 15M contract.

This guy is just what we've need in need of at PF. He's one of the best defensive big men, can rebound, and score.

Gamble1
06-28-2011, 02:57 PM
For real?

Nene and I'd even offer a 15M contract.

This guy is just what we've need in need of at PF. He's one of the best defensive big men, can rebound, and score.
Again he has never averaged more than 7-8 rebounds a game and never scored 15 ppg in his career.

Edit: And he is going to be 29 in sept. Seriously his contract would be more toxic as a max in the end. A 33/34 year old who was never a double double guy. Pass

A.B.Hollywood
06-28-2011, 03:08 PM
For real?

Nene and I'd even offer a 15M contract.

This guy is just what we've need in need of at PF. He's one of the best defensive big men, can rebound, and score.

I don't think you even watch basketball outside of Indiana. And who said Nene is one of the best defensive big men?

This is getting ludicrous now.

BRushWithDeath
06-28-2011, 03:09 PM
Whichever player New Jersey decides they don't want.

LA_Confidential
06-28-2011, 03:11 PM
Nene all day. Bigger, younger, stronger, healthier and more athletic. He'd be our enforcer. He can bang and effectively defend any big man in the NBA with the exception of maybe Dirk. Sign me up. He's like Dale Davis with hair.

Trophy
06-28-2011, 03:15 PM
I don't think you even watch basketball outside of Indiana. And who said Nene is one of the best defensive big men?

This is getting ludicrous now.

I don't live in Indiana and I have LP so I'm watching everyone.

It's funny how you're trying to say Nene doesn't play defense? He's a giant defensive presense.

Between these 2, Nene is who I want. I want him for his defense. That's the top thing he has to offer.

You try watching him.

MagicRat
06-28-2011, 03:25 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=hilarne01&y1=2011&p2=westda01&y2=2011

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=hilarne01&y1=2011&p2=westda01&y2=2011

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=hilarne01&p2=westda01

A.B.Hollywood
06-28-2011, 03:29 PM
I don't live in Indiana and I have LP so I'm watching everyone.

It's funny how you're trying to say Nene doesn't play defense? He's a giant defensive presense.

Between these 2, Nene is who I want. I want him for his defense. That's the top thing he has to offer.

You try watching him.

Nene is a decent Defender. You said he was one of the best defensive PF's in the game. That's just not true.

I agree he's better than West though but that doesn't mean he deserves double the contract which is what prompted the "ludicrous" statement I threw out.

The Jackson shimmy
06-28-2011, 03:33 PM
Just to meander off on a tangent for the heck of it, I'll ask this
question:

Why is it that we need a (Dale Davis-like) 'banger' at PF ? Is it just a
generic, PF preference ? Or is it because, at least thus far, our C,
Mr. Hibbert, has proven to be a (putting it diplomatically; a word that
starts with 'p' and routinely preceeds the word 'cat' might be more
appropriate) 'finesse player' ?

A.B.Hollywood
06-28-2011, 03:33 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=hilarne01&y1=2011&p2=westda01&y2=2011

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=hilarne01&y1=2011&p2=westda01&y2=2011

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=hilarne01&p2=westda01

Wow they had identical PER's for 2010-11. Crazy stuff there.

naptownmenace
06-28-2011, 03:40 PM
Again he has never averaged more than 7-8 rebounds a game and never scored 15 ppg in his career.

Edit: And he is going to be 29 in sept. Seriously his contract would be more toxic as a max in the end. A 33/34 year old who was never a double double guy. Pass

You say that like David West is a double-double guy himself.

I prefer Nene because he is a much better defender and you don't really have to run many plays for him to have a positive impact on the game. He can also play Center and you wouldn't miss much on the nights when Roy is in foul trouble or struggling.

With David West, you have to involve him in a lot of P-n-R plays and isolation plays on the baseline.

Gamble1
06-28-2011, 03:42 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=hilarne01&y1=2011&p2=westda01&y2=2011

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=hilarne01&y1=2011&p2=westda01&y2=2011

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=hilarne01&p2=westda01
Well to be fair I think Nene would have been playing more Center than PF in most of these games but again I think its telling that Nene hasn't been a dominant rebounded in his career and he isn't going to carry your team like other guys getting paid 12 mill or more.

Wage
06-28-2011, 03:43 PM
Nene is a decent Defender. You said he was one of the best defensive PF's in the game. That's just not true.

I agree he's better than West though but that doesn't mean he deserves double the contract which is what prompted the "ludicrous" statement I threw out.

Nene is pretty much on par with Hibbert on defense, and on the boards, minus some shot blocking. He is a very efficient player on offense. That is his real value.

I like Nene, but can't understand the people that want him because he is a defensive force, or a "Dale Davis type." If you are picking up Nene for defense, you're doing it wrong.

Gamble1
06-28-2011, 03:49 PM
You say that like David West is a double-double guy himself.

I prefer Nene because he is a much better defender and you don't really have to run many plays for him to have a positive impact on the game. He can also play Center and you wouldn't miss much on the nights when Roy is in foul trouble or struggling.

With David West, you have to involve him in a lot of P-n-R plays and isolation plays on the baseline.
I am not biased here. If we can get Nene for 10-11 mill under the current CBA I would sign him over West. That fact is that everyone thinks he is going to be a Dale Davis type of player and I dont' see that from him. THe guy is not going to be defensive ace and a rebounding machine. He just isn't. Laterally he will be slow on the help defense but I trust him on the one on one stuff. In his last years of his contract he will very hard to move IMO under a new CBA.

I look at West as a shorter deal with less money. Both have risk and currently I would say West has more but its for less money and probably less years on a contract.

troyc11a
06-28-2011, 03:50 PM
Nene is pretty much on par with Hibbert on defense, and on the boards, minus some shot blocking. He is a very efficient player on offense. That is his real value.

I like Nene, but can't understand the people that want him because he is a defensive force, or a "Dale Davis type." If you are picking up Nene for defense, you're doing it wrong.

Dont know much about Nene. If he is not an enforcer than I dont want him. Dont think he is worth a max anyway.

The problem with threads like this one and the 8 thousand David West ones is this: Most people on this board know little about how basketball is played or how the roster must fit together. This is why we get the calls for Milsap, West, Josh Smith, and Nene. Wake up people - this is not fantasy BB. Someone will have to defend the rim and grab the boards. Someone has to be an enforcer. Many of you act like if we get the best scorers, its off to the finals we go. Any of those above mentioned players without significant additions thru FA/trade = its fighting for the 8 seed all over again.

vnzla81
06-28-2011, 03:51 PM
I am not biased here

Yes you are.

Gamble1
06-28-2011, 03:53 PM
Yes you are.
Well you can have your opinion and I can have mine. You obviously don't care to facor in all the points that I am making about West and Nene.

I would be happy with both players given a reasonable contract was on the table. You can't say the same thing can you. ;)

LA_Confidential
06-28-2011, 03:57 PM
Just to meander off on a tangent for the heck of it, I'll ask this
question:

Why is it that we need a (Dale Davis-like) 'banger' at PF ? Is it just a
generic, PF preference ? Or is it because, at least thus far, our C,
Mr. Hibbert, has proven to be a (putting it diplomatically; a word that
starts with 'p' and routinely preceeds the word 'cat' might be more
appropriate) 'finesse player' ?

Honestly I dont think Roy has been a puss at all. Dude's body has been in transition for the past couple years. He worked so hard to lose weight that his body would not stop losing weight. Of course that would negatively affect his strength.

I just think the need for an "enforcer" is essential to the success of any team in NBA history. The more bigs with skills the better.

Roy gets blocks and is a decent rebounder right now but he doesnt deter players like Rose and Wade from attacking the rim. Isnt that why we all raved over Foster vs the Bulls. Nene brings that to the table. If Larry is interested I hope we nab him.

ksuttonjr76
06-28-2011, 04:03 PM
For me...it's a no contest. We need more defense in the post, he can provide at 1 BPG and 1 SPG. Not only that...he's YOUNGER, and plays closer to the basket than David West. I could see us doing 10-13 MIL per year.

ballism
06-28-2011, 04:03 PM
Nene is no Dale Davis. His defensive effort is inconsistent. If the effort was always on (and he was always healthy) Nene would be a multiple times all star. Overall he has a lot of defensive talent. And he's one of the better PnR defenders among big men. He's not a quick jumper so he will never block a ton of shots but you could live with it if the effort was always there.

Combine possible huge salary, on-off effort and quite prima donna personality, I have a feeling he would be my least favorite Pacer by the end of next season. :)

Get him at Granger-like salary, I could live with that. But that's the absolute most I'd pay.

Gamble1
06-28-2011, 04:05 PM
For me...it's a no contest. We need more defense in the post, he can provide at 1 BPG and 1 SPG. Not only that...he's YOUNGER, and plays closer to the basket than David West. I could see us doing 10-13 MIL per year.
He just opted out of 11.6 mill. I am sure Denver is going to give him the best deal and thats basically were he wants to stay anyway.

Edit: Chandler has atleast been a double double guy with IMO better defense overall.

ksuttonjr76
06-28-2011, 04:07 PM
He just opted out of 11.6 mill. I am sure Denver is going to give him the best deal and thats basically were he wants to stay anyway.

Or Denver may decide he's not worth the money and sign David West to a cheaper contract.

vnzla81
06-28-2011, 04:07 PM
When are we going to find out if Nene is picking up his option?

Gamble1
06-28-2011, 04:11 PM
When are we going to find out if Nene is picking up his option?
I believe its the 30th.

ksuttonjr76
06-28-2011, 04:11 PM
When are we going to find out if Nene is picking up his option?

http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_18366379?source=rss

It looks like he's asking for $50MIL over 4 years.

vnzla81
06-28-2011, 04:12 PM
I believe its the 30th.

Cool, that means that in two days we would know for sure if we have a chance to get Nene.

vnzla81
06-28-2011, 04:17 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_18366379?source=rss

It looks like he's asking for $50MIL over 4 years.

4/50? :signit:

I also like the description of the journalist of Dwest :laugh:


While Nene will never be an intimidator, he provides more presence in the lane than New Orleans free agent David West, who's older and softer and turns the definition of a power forward into an oxymoron.

LA_Confidential
06-28-2011, 04:32 PM
4/50 would not kill our space this year and with Posey and Rush coming off next year it wont hinder us in the hopes of gettin the beloved Eric Gordon

The Jackson shimmy
06-28-2011, 04:34 PM
Honestly I dont think Roy has been a puss at all. Dude's body has been in transition for the past couple years. He worked so hard to lose weight that his body would not stop losing weight. Of course that would negatively affect his strength.

I just think the need for an "enforcer" is essential to the success of any team in NBA history. The more bigs with skills the better.

Roy gets blocks and is a decent rebounder right now but he doesnt deter players like Rose and Wade from attacking the rim. Isnt that why we all raved over Foster vs the Bulls. Nene brings that to the table. If Larry is interested I hope we nab him.


I'll grant your point about Hibb's having to adjust his body type, etc.
Presumably, if/as he adds some 'good' weight back, he'll have the
ability to play with a bit more physicality.

But his issues seem to be as much about temparement and attitude
as they are about physical stature. He just doesn't choose to play
with much (as Carlisle used to call it) 'force'.

As for Nene, I'd be ok with him at $10ish mil per. Anything more would
be overpaying (particularly when you consider that presumably, 2-3 yrs
from now, if they're still here, guys like Collison, Hill, Hans and Hibbs are
gonna be making anywhere from $6-10mil per with George hot on their heels).

Sookie
06-28-2011, 04:35 PM
NeNe, without question. Especially next to Roy.

Trophy
06-28-2011, 04:37 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_18366379?source=rss

It looks like he's asking for $50MIL over 4 years.

Wow that's a lot less than I was planning on him looking for.

That's a reasonable deal and I'd consider it.

We'd still have space to bring in someone else. Possible S&T if we want to still have more cap space.

ballism
06-28-2011, 04:40 PM
It's a bit too much, but I could live with 50 mil or whatever the equivalent under new CBA.
Btw, how does SnT help us keep more cap? Edit - nvm, i suppose u mean sending Hansbrough's salary or something back.

CableKC
06-28-2011, 04:43 PM
If Nene is the Big Guy that can fill the paint and help defend the low-post...then $12.5 per year is not bad....it's comprable to what Okafor got.

But then I'd guess that we should simply go after Okafor since West is leaving :shrug:

ballism
06-28-2011, 04:49 PM
Emeka is extremely overpayed to me. He's solid, but nothing more, and he isn't much of a vocal person on D, even a little intimidated at times. I would take him instead of Hibbert, just not at that salary.

LA_Confidential
06-28-2011, 04:50 PM
When is the soonest teams can sign free agents?

ballism
06-28-2011, 04:51 PM
When is the soonest teams can sign free agents?

As soon as the new CBA is in place. Sometime between July 1 and summer 2020? :p

A.B.Hollywood
06-28-2011, 05:08 PM
If Nene is the Big Guy that can fill the paint and help defend the low-post...then $12.5 per year is not bad....it's comprable to what Okafor got.

But then I'd guess that we should simply go after Okafor since West is leaving :shrug:

And Nene is better than Okafor. I actually think Okafor is quite overrated as a Defender too which is the majority of his value. That really was a bad contract now in hindsight.

4 years 50 million I can *definitely* live with for Nene though. This also means that Marc Gasol is likely to get a similar deal. I can only dream that we can snag one of them.

I'd really like to break this down compared to where we will be in 2012/2013 and beyond though. We have a LOT of extensions coming and need to be prepared for this as well.

LA_Confidential
06-28-2011, 05:12 PM
As soon as the new CBA is in place. Sometime between July 1 and summer 2020? :p

So essentially our capspace doesnt come to fruition until a new CBA is ironed out? That sucks. Oh well, im just itching to see whats next.

George Hill was a nice lead off single but we need an extra base hit to advance the runner.

PR07
06-28-2011, 05:22 PM
If we could keep Nene at 4 years, I'd be pretty happy. The 12.5 million isn't that bad.

beezer615
06-28-2011, 05:23 PM
So we can look at hard numbers:

Nene
6'-11", 28 yrs old, 9 yr veteran
Missed Seasons: 2 (05-06 and 07-08)
70 game seasons: 5 of 9
Stats Last 3 years: 14pts, 7 rebs, 2 assists, 1 block
'10-'11 PER: 20.49
All-Star: 0 appearances
Expectant Salary: max deal

David West:
6'-9", 8 yr. veteran, 31 yrs. old,
Missed Seasons: 0
70-Game Seasons: 6 of 8
Stat Averages for last 6 years: 19pts, 8 rebs, 2.3 assists, 1 block
10-11 PER: 20.51
All-Star: 2 years
Expectant Salary: $12 million.

David Wests is just below a 20-10 producer, more consistent over longer time span, more 70 game seasons, never missed a complete season to injury, more all-star appearances, is expecting less money, legit offensive threat, and can be a teams go-to player in a game.

Nene plays more in the paint than the jumper, 3 years younger, and isn't coming off of injury.

And you want to give Nene a large salary to give you 14 & 7?

beezer615
06-28-2011, 05:26 PM
If Nene is the Big Guy that can fill the paint and help defend the low-post...then $12.5 per year is not bad....it's comprable to what Okafor got.

But then I'd guess that we should simply go after Okafor since West is leaving :shrug:

Nene has no stats to prove that he is a better defender and rebounder than David West. West comes out better in rebounding actually.