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PacerPenguins
06-28-2011, 10:50 AM
Indiana and New Jersey are two teams with significant salary-cap space and a strong interest in signing (David) West, league sources said. West grew up in New Jersey, living in Northern New Jersey until the eighth grade, and has always been fond of the metropolitan New York area. Nevertheless, the Pacers have a better core now and have a gaping hole for a power forward. West hasnít ruled out the Hornets, who offered him a three-year, $26 million-plus extension this season.


Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?lc=NBA&c=1&TEAM_ID=&PLAYER_ID=&hd=20110628#STORY_33870#ixzz1QaAkLkbq

bphil
06-28-2011, 10:56 AM
West is 31 and damaged goods. How much do we want to commit to this guy?

troyc11a
06-28-2011, 10:59 AM
West is 31 and damaged goods. How much do we want to commit to this guy?

Absolutely nothing! Makes "0" sense to sign this guy. He is the exact opposite of what this team needs. Only "Fantasy BB" fans want him anyway.

Gamble1
06-28-2011, 11:03 AM
West is 31 and damaged goods. How much do we want to commit to this guy?
THe guy has out performed his contract every year so I am sure we were all in for him before his injury. Now I don't know how much we would be willing to spend.

mildlysane
06-28-2011, 11:22 AM
I say no. My Kingdom for a rebounder/defender at the 4.....!

ChristianDudley
06-28-2011, 11:52 AM
Even if we did sign him, I wonder how long he'd have to be out due to injury, not including the lockout period that will probably happen? The whole first season maybe? Or at least most of the first season of his contract with us? That's a whole season of good money being wasted, just sitting on the bench. I think it would be much smarter for us to go after Nene or someone else, who is currently healthy. I think David West should have just opted in and taken the Hornets offer as it isn't a bad offer from them or anything like that obviously, but I do think he wants to return home to the Nets, like George Hill has for us now, while also getting paid. I still don't really see him leaving the Hornets, but I do suppose there's a good chance of him actually leaving New Orleans.

Gamble1
06-28-2011, 11:56 AM
Even if we did sign him, I wonder how long he'd have to be out due to injury, not including the lockout period that will probably happen? The whole first season maybe? Or at least most of the first season of his contract with us? That's a whole season of good money being wasted, just sitting on the bench. I think it would be much smarter for us to go after Nene or someone else, who is currently healthy. I think David West should have just opted in and taken the Hornets offer as it isn't a bad offer from them or anything like that obviously, but I do think he wants to return home to the Nets, like George Hill has for us now, while also getting paid. I still don't really see him leaving the Hornets, but I do suppose there's a good chance of him actually leaving New Orleans.
His Dr's have said he will be good to go for the start of the season. Now do Dr.s lie I am not going into that but I think he should be contributing at a high level around Nov.

The only reason I can come up with of why he wouldn't want to go back home to NJ is that his chances of winning could be a lot less which is true if the can't resign Dwill. He could know that Chris Paul doesn't want to resign and maybe he doesn't want to risk being put in a similar situation in NJ.

imawhat
06-28-2011, 11:58 AM
It will take at least a year from the injury (March 24) before he's close to playing like his normal self, no matter how good his progress has been so far.

Pacergeek
06-28-2011, 12:01 PM
Pass on West. He used to be underrated, but is now overrated for being underrated.

PaceBalls
06-28-2011, 12:05 PM
Haven't we had enough extremely overpaid power forwards who have knee injuries? Nice Suit btw
http://www.bothteamsplayedhard.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/jo-suit.jpg

Sparhawk
06-28-2011, 12:06 PM
C'mon, everyone knows the Pacers need a power forward, so of course we'll be at the top of the rumor list.

I would be interested in West if the contract is reasonable (lower than the Hornets offer).

Sparhawk
06-28-2011, 12:08 PM
Haven't we had enough extremely overpaid power forwards who have knee injuries? Nice Suit btw
http://www.bothteamsplayedhard.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/jo-suit.jpg

Yeah, but JO was making around $20mil. Far cry from around $8mil. Still, $8mil is too much, especially since next year he'll be pretty worthless coming off that injury. And even if he does come back, at his age, he'll probably lose a step or two...not a good thing.

The Sleeze
06-28-2011, 12:17 PM
Here is a quote from West in his conversation with Marc Stein of ESPN:

"We'll have to talk to them, obviously, and see where Dell (Demps, Hornets general manager) is. The Hornets have an opportunity. But I'm looking for an opportunity to win, honestly. We'll see how things work out, and what the Hornets do to make our situation better. That's really all it came down to. At this point in my career, I want to win, and I want to win big."

The Hornets won 46 games last year, so I'm not too confident he would want to come here anyway. I don't think we'll top 46, let alone be a big contender like he's looking for.

PR07
06-28-2011, 12:26 PM
After seeing guys like JO, Elton Brand, and Chris Webber never recover from knee surgeries late in their career, I'd have a real tough time giving him a lot of money.

I think I'd rather sign Kenyon Martin to a 2 year deal at 5 million, than sign David West for 5 years at 9 million.

D-BONE
06-28-2011, 12:37 PM
How any David West threads do we have now?

vnzla81
06-28-2011, 12:42 PM
How any David West threads do we have now?

I think we should have the "David West official thread" so people stops making new ones.

MTM
06-28-2011, 12:47 PM
"the Pacers have a better core now and have a gaping hole for a power forward"

That feels like unnecessary hyperbole. "Gaping"? Our top pick from 3 drafts ago plays the position fairly well.

troyc11a
06-28-2011, 01:00 PM
I do wish that everyone who is drooling over the possibility to sign West understand that he plays the same style ball as Tyler does. They have the same strengths and weaknesses. Tyler is not the scorer yet that West is but is every bit the rebounder and defender.

Tyler (as a starter): 14/6
David West : 18/7

Tyler's game should improve while West's will decline. Injury and age says so. Also, Tyler will be about 6mill a year cheaper for similar production.
Spending 6-7 mill a year more in order to get the same production is just stupid. Tyler will put up numbers even closer to West's next year - maybe even better. Let's stop the madness!

Really?
06-28-2011, 01:09 PM
Please Nets save us...

Mark
06-28-2011, 01:13 PM
Interested, but not 3 years/ 26 million interested.

Speed
06-28-2011, 01:18 PM
How any David West threads do we have now?

Not enough, its the cowbell of PD.

The Sleeze
06-28-2011, 01:20 PM
Not enough, its the cowbell of PD.

Now you've done it. Let's see how long it takes before someone quotes/posts the SNL Cowbell skit.

Justin Tyme
06-28-2011, 01:41 PM
Let's be realistic. If West turned down 26 mil extension at over 8.5 mil a year for a 46 win team with a PG like CP3, why is he going to come to the Pacers for less than 10 mil? B/c he likes to watch the corn grow in Indiana? I see no reason to pay an aging injured player 40 plus mil over 4 years. This is West's last contract, and he'll want to be paid "well" on a lengthy contract. Let NJ do it. PASS!

Oh btw, the corn crop in IN has suffered due to the wet spring, so expect food prices to go up even more.

RLeWorm
06-28-2011, 02:21 PM
Kenyon Martin!

Lou Bega
06-28-2011, 02:31 PM
No matter what PF the Pacers bring in this offseason Tyler Hansbrough is going to beat him out and take his playing time. Hans will not lose!!!!

No need to invest $$$ unless we are getting a big that is a physical shot blocker that rebounds. Deandre Jordan is that type of player but even @ 3 yr 26 mill that is too much for him.

I believe if the Pacers are patient they can bring in 2-3 decent name players to fill their void better ie Thaddus Young/C Landry or C Butler/ J Mc Roberts. Than investing a lot of money on name!!!!

Gamble1
06-28-2011, 02:33 PM
Let's be realistic. If West turned down 26 mil extension at over 8.5 mil a year for a 46 win team with a PG like CP3, why is he going to come to the Pacers for less than 10 mil? B/c he likes to watch the corn grow in Indiana? I see no reason to pay an aging injured player 40 plus mil over 4 years. This is West's last contract, and he'll want to be paid "well" on a lengthy contract. Let NJ do it. PASS!

Oh btw, the corn crop in IN has suffered due to the wet spring, so expect food prices to go up even more.
Maybe CP3 doesn't stay. IT would suck to be in NO's with no Chris Paul and if the Nets are in play then the same concerns should be there for him. Both of those teams would take serious steps backward if the pg's left for free agency.

CableKC
06-28-2011, 02:38 PM
Maybe CP3 doesn't stay. IT would suck to be in NO's with no Chris Paul and if the Nets are in play then the same concerns should be there for him. Both of those teams would take serious steps backward if the pg's left for free agency.
I'm guessing the main point that Justin Tyme was bringing up was that the starting point for ANY contract offer that West gets starts at $8.5 mil per season over the next 3 seasons.

The question then would be whether you are comfortable with some $8.5 to $10 mil a year contract for the next 3 to 5 seasons.

My answer is "pass"...for that reason, the injury concerns and mainly because he doesn't fit the Smashmouth Big Man that I want for the future.

Manguera
06-28-2011, 03:29 PM
Let the Nets take him and we can take Humphries who will be cheaper and fit better.

troyc11a
06-28-2011, 03:36 PM
No matter what PF the Pacers bring in this offseason Tyler Hansbrough is going to beat him out and take his playing time. Hans will not lose!!!!

No need to invest $$$ unless we are getting a big that is a physical shot blocker that rebounds. Deandre Jordan is that type of player but even @ 3 yr 26 mill that is too much for him.

I believe if the Pacers are patient they can bring in 2-3 decent name players to fill their void better ie Thaddus Young/C Landry or C Butler/ J Mc Roberts. Than investing a lot of money on name!!!!

Carl Landry is not that type either. He is a poor rebounder. He might make a decent backup for Tyler but not much else unless you have a monster in the middle - which we dont.
Didnt young get accused of quitting last year? I was thinking he was the guy mentioned along with J. Smith about only playing at times. Might have him mixed up with Blatche from Wash. Not sure.
C. Buter: Do we really need another wing?
J. McRoberts: I would like to see him back at the right price. Backup C/PF
Edit: Just looked up Young's stats. He is not a very good rebounder and doesnt block shots. Might be expensive for no more production.

Justin Tyme
06-28-2011, 04:17 PM
Maybe CP3 doesn't stay. IT would suck to be in NO's with no Chris Paul and if the Nets are in play then the same concerns should be there for him. Both of those teams would take serious steps backward if the pg's left for free agency.


Have you seen anything substantial where CP3 says he's leaving the Hornets? If not, it's just nothing more than a subjective maybe. If he'd read PD, every other trade has Granger being traded. The Pacers best player, so why come to the Pacers if Granger "might" be leaving?

Again, West is looking for his last opportunity to be well taken care of with a career ending contract. He turned down 26 mil over 3 years which says I'm looking for long term security that pays more with a longer contract.

Other than a fat paycheck and a lengthy contract, why would West want to play for NJ? If he's worried about CP3 leaving the Hornets, wouldn't he be concerned about Williams leaving? My personal opinion is he should have taken the 3 year extension which would be equal to a 4 year contract. He obviously is looking for more. I hope Bird is smart enough to understand this, and doesn't get crazy if he decides to sign West.

Will Galen
06-28-2011, 08:01 PM
Here is a quote from West in his conversation with Marc Stein of ESPN:

"We'll have to talk to them, obviously, and see where Dell (Demps, Hornets general manager) is. The Hornets have an opportunity. But I'm looking for an opportunity to win, honestly. We'll see how things work out, and what the Hornets do to make our situation better. That's really all it came down to. At this point in my career, I want to win, and I want to win big."

The Hornets won 46 games last year, so I'm not too confident he would want to come here anyway. I don't think we'll top 46, let alone be a big contender like he's looking for.

When I read this the other day I thought for sure he wasn't coming to the Pacers, but where's he going to go to win big and still get paid? The Lakers, Miami, Chicago, Boston, OC, and Dallas all have pretty nice power forwards. Even the big city teams of NY,NJ, and the Clippers have Power forwards that would have him sitting on the bench. And coming off of an injury like he is, he would be coming off the bench.

I suppose he could go to one of those teams anyway, that way he could ease back in, but he wouldn't get paid like he's getting paid now. Who wants to pay starter money to a player to sit?

Will Galen
06-28-2011, 08:11 PM
I think we should have the "David West official thread" so people stops making new ones.

Ah . . . how does attaching official to a thread stop people?

I've always thought unless Able , Hicks, or one of the other mods attach the word official to a thread it's being pretentious, because it's not really official.

And the thing is, they don't have to do that because when they post we know it's official because of who they are on here.

Will Galen
06-28-2011, 08:22 PM
I do wish that everyone who is drooling over the possibility to sign West understand that he plays the same style ball as Tyler does. They have the same strengths and weaknesses. Tyler is not the scorer yet that West is but is every bit the rebounder and defender.

Tyler (as a starter): 14/6
David West : 18/7

Tyler's game should improve while West's will decline. Injury and age says so. Also, Tyler will be about 6mill a year cheaper for similar production.
Spending 6-7 mill a year more in order to get the same production is just stupid. Tyler will put up numbers even closer to West's next year - maybe even better. Let's stop the madness!

I agree.

We don't need a power forward to start, or a center to start. We don't have gaping holes at either position. We need a defender/rebounder who can play with either one of them. If we can a someone better than either of them, that's good, but not a requirement.

troyc11a
06-28-2011, 08:39 PM
I agree.

We don't need a power forward to start, or a center to start. We don't have gaping holes at either position. We need a defender/rebounder who can play with either one of them. If we can a someone better than either of them, that's good, but not a requirement.

I cant help but want someone like DeAndre Jordan who can play both PF/C spot and is an athletic defender/shot blocker. He is a RFA but considering his age/upside, I would throw some cash at him. Others have mentioned Anthony Randolph - sounds good but dont really know him. AK47 seems to be more of an undersized 4 (3-4 combo like Josh Smith).
I just hope that Larry puts a premium on D, shot blocking, and rebounding when he goes after a guy!

daschysta
06-28-2011, 09:47 PM
I agree.

We don't need a power forward to start, or a center to start. We don't have gaping holes at either position. We need a defender/rebounder who can play with either one of them. If we can a someone better than either of them, that's good, but not a requirement.

I'm not sure, I love our team as it currently is, but really I see Tyler as the weakest starter, and he also has the least potential out of our starting group.

Collison gets ragged on constantly, but he's not nearly, nearly as bad as people make him out to be. Collison only played 29 mpg, and he spent half the year under O'brien, who I am absolutely convinced is worse for point guards even more so than for big men. Every point guard who grew up inthe country is used to the ball in his hands and darren thrived with it in his hands in NO. Needless to say I think Darren will be one of the most improved Pacers next year.

His per 36 numbers are better than other young point guards he gets compared to all the time, and he averaged 15 points and 6.6 assts per 36 under vogel, which really isn't as horrible as people make it seem and he was stepping up big time in the playoffs until he got injured. I firmly believe we win game 2 if he doesn't get hurt. 17-7 isn't out of the question for him next year. 3rd year is big for point guards.

SG maybe could use an upgrade for next year alone, but if were all so sure PG is going to be a beast in the near future I don't want to invest alot of money in a guy that's going to demand to start for as long as he's here.

If Danny doesn't get traded than SF is obviously in more than capable hands.

Roy is the one guy other than Paul George and Granger who can grow in to a legitimate star, I believe he can be one of the top 3 or four centers in todays watered down big man scene, and when Roy plays well the pacers look damn near like a top flight team. Roy can be a star, if he hadcontinued to play like the first two months of last season he'd be a shoe in all-star behind Dwight Howard in the east, especially since bogut can't stay healthy and is offensively challenged. In alot of ways he's more important than granger is, and maybe even more than paul george will be. All he needs to do is add on some extra muscle, to keep position better, and noone will be able to stop him, and after the way he transformed his body last offseason into a skinnyish guy... Well putting on muscle should be easier than that was for him.

Rambling aside i'm just saying that if a starting Power Forward isn't what we need, then what DO we need? We aren't so good yet that we only need to fill in a couple blanks with bench players and boom were contenders. Plus Hansbrough, as much as I love him, and recognize his ability to score is a pretty bad rebounder, a no, no next to Hibbert, who I would say is an average to above average rebounder, and tyler is also a bad, bad, bad passer who doesn't really run set plays that well. Over the course of a season his tenacity may tire him out if he's playing 36 plus minutes too. The description above describes a prototypical bench player, a damned good one, he'd beat up on backups, give us an injection of energy if we need it, still get good minutes and be one of the bets second unit guys in the league. I think he's just as valuable on the bench as he is a starter. If I could choose between an averagish starter (which hans is) and an amazing bench player (which hans is) I'd choose the latter and get a good starter to put ahead of him.

If David West will recover fully in our staffs opinion, and he isn't demanding an arm and a leg I don't think it's a bad move to pick him up, especially since he likely would have been more expensive before he got the injury. A plus is that he's an even better shooter than Hansbrough is, an amazing one for a four in fact, and Collison and he looked great in new orleans playing with each other, he'd thrive with Darren even more than Tyler did. Plus he has some good post moves and isn't soft on defense like alot of people are making out to be.

I know everyone wants us to find another dale, like the old days, and I do too, i'm just not sure they make 'em like that anymore, or how many games DD would get kicked out of these days for sissy flagrants. What great beastly defensive/ rebounding power forward is out there? We aren't getting Chandler, who is more of a center anyhow, and i'm not sure who is a free agent next year, but I don't see the hypothetical Dale Clone. A guy like a healthy David West, or a Nene makes us much , much better. With either of those guys I really think we could push high forties or maybe even 50 games next year.

As for the JO comparisons, we all hated when JO would fall in love with the fadeaway mostly because he wasn't that good at it, West on the other hand is great at it, and doesn't rely on athleticism as much as Jermaine did. Even if he lost some of his his game would suffer way, way less than JO's did, plus the hypothetical contract would be for 10 million tops, a far cry from JO's cap busting deal.

troyc11a
06-28-2011, 10:30 PM
Tyler puts up 14/6 as a starter in basically his rookie year and everyone wants to move him to the bench. If we used the same rationale in judging the rest of our starters, only Granger would start. The rest would all be backups. Yes, our 2nd best player isnt good enough to start.

CableKC
06-28-2011, 10:45 PM
Other than a fat paycheck and a lengthy contract, why would West want to play for NJ? If he's worried about CP3 leaving the Hornets, wouldn't he be concerned about Williams leaving? My personal opinion is he should have taken the 3 year extension which would be equal to a 4 year contract. He obviously is looking for more. I hope Bird is smart enough to understand this, and doesn't get crazy if he decides to sign West.
The only reason why I'd think that West would want to play for the Nets is because he grew up in NJ or Brooklyn ( not sure which...but that area ). But I'd guess that the Nets are looking to acquire one of the top Scoring PF FA to try to build around DWill. As you suggest, I really hope that the Nets decide to overpay him.

Infinite MAN_force
06-28-2011, 11:52 PM
Tyler puts up 14/6 as a starter in basically his rookie year and everyone wants to move him to the bench. If we used the same rationale in judging the rest of our starters, only Granger would start. The rest would all be backups. Yes, our 2nd best player isnt good enough to start.

That's not enough rebounding out of your starting PF, especially when your starting center isn't the strongest rebounder to begin with. Its easy to like Tyler because of his tenacity but his game is fairly one dimensional. I think he can be an EXTREMELY effective bench player, but a somewhat mediocre starter. Enough to get by but ultimately you limit your team's potential by starting Tyler Hansbrough.

Count me in on thinking Collison is being severely underrated of late as well, I think he makes a big leap next season. Competition from Hill won't hurt either.

MillerTime
06-29-2011, 12:09 AM
Tyler puts up 14/6 as a starter in basically his rookie year and everyone wants to move him to the bench. If we used the same rationale in judging the rest of our starters, only Granger would start. The rest would all be backups. Yes, our 2nd best player isnt good enough to start.

some players are just better suited coming off the bench. They can bring a certain dimension to the game, for Tyler's case its his energy.

Look at Terry, Crawford and Odom...theyre all great players, but theyre just better situated coming off the bench

daschysta
06-29-2011, 12:15 AM
Tyler puts up 14/6 as a starter in basically his rookie year and everyone wants to move him to the bench. If we used the same rationale in judging the rest of our starters, only Granger would start. The rest would all be backups. Yes, our 2nd best player isnt good enough to start.

Tyler scored well, and I like his game, but you can't sit here and argue that he's not incredibly one dimensional. He has a chance to be great at two things, Scoring, and being an sparkplug, his scoring would be awesome off the bench, but imo you want starters that are more well rounded. Tyler is a below average rebounder, an awful passer, and a subpar defender. He has a unique game, and I think he could be one of the most effective bench players in the league, but once again you want a starter that has a more well rounded game he isn't just mediocre at a few key things he's bad at them. I just want him in a position to best help the team, it's not a knock on the guy.

jeffg-body
06-29-2011, 12:25 AM
At first I was all for West being signed but I do like KMart as a viable option to be the DD type for at least the next three years while we look for our franchise PF either through trade or FA.

CableKC
06-29-2011, 01:08 AM
some players are just better suited coming off the bench. They can bring a certain dimension to the game, for Tyler's case its his energy.

Look at Terry, Crawford and Odom...theyre all great players, but theyre just better situated coming off the bench
This is why I ONLY view Hansbrough as an "Emergency short-term Starting PF that is much better suited to be a very solid Backup PF" type Player. Sure, he can start if needed....but I'd rather have him play 24 intense minutes a game against the opposing Teams 2nd Unit or mixing it up against Starters.

D squared fan
06-29-2011, 01:22 AM
Hell if we're gonna throw big money to an aging vet in West. Why not bring Troy Murphy back ......im sure he will be cheap n he rebounds and shoots.......or Kris kardashian humphries...or Marc Gasol if price right. But no West. We will be in same cap hell again like Murphleavy a few years ago. Over paid injured player we can't trade or get rid of

31andonly
06-29-2011, 01:48 AM
I'd rather leave the pf spot for tyler and mcbob this season and try to get someone next year before spending loads of money on an aging West!

Larry Staverman
06-29-2011, 08:35 AM
Some perspective on rebounding numbers

Career averages per 36 minutes

Chandler 11.48
Hibbert 9.00
Hansbourgh 8.87
McRoberts 8.71
Nene 8.39
West 8.11

Perception isn't always reality

xIndyFan
06-29-2011, 08:45 AM
Read more NBA news and insight:

West hasnít ruled out the Hornets, who offered him a three-year, $26 million-plus extension this season.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?lc=NBA&c=1&TEAM_ID=&PLAYER_ID=&hd=20110628#STORY_33870#ixzz1QaAkLkbq

west falls into the group of guys that i wouldn't mind, but don't really want. since he does basically the same thing as tyler does already.

nor do i think he is worth the 3yr/$26M he as already turned down.

troyc11a
06-29-2011, 09:46 AM
Tyler scored well, and I like his game, but you can't sit here and argue that he's not incredibly one dimensional. He has a chance to be great at two things, Scoring, and being an sparkplug, his scoring would be awesome off the bench, but imo you want starters that are more well rounded. Tyler is a below average rebounder, an awful passer, and a subpar defender. He has a unique game, and I think he could be one of the most effective bench players in the league, but once again you want a starter that has a more well rounded game he isn't just mediocre at a few key things he's bad at them. I just want him in a position to best help the team, it's not a knock on the guy.

West brings in 1 whole rebound a game more than Tyler (as a starter). C'mon guys, if Tyler (who will improve) doesnt rebound enough, then why on earth would you want to throw 10-11 million dollars at a guy who is no better at it than him. Tyler could easily be better than him next year!

troyc11a
06-29-2011, 09:49 AM
Some perspective on rebounding numbers

Career averages per 36 minutes

Chandler 11.48
Hibbert 9.00
Hansbourgh 8.87
McRoberts 8.71
Nene 8.39
West 8.11

Perception isn't always reality

I have been wrong and glad you corrected me. I have been arguing that Tyler will be as good of a rebounder as West next year (and the years to come). Thank you for showing me the light. TYLER IS ALREADY A BETTER REBOUNDER THAN DAVID WEST!!!!!!
Lets go Larry, shell out 7 million a year to replace Tyler with an INFERIOR rebounder!!!!!

Gamble1
06-29-2011, 09:57 AM
Have you seen anything substantial where CP3 says he's leaving the Hornets? If not, it's just nothing more than a subjective maybe. If he'd read PD, every other trade has Granger being traded. The Pacers best player, so why come to the Pacers if Granger "might" be leaving?

Again, West is looking for his last opportunity to be well taken care of with a career ending contract. He turned down 26 mil over 3 years which says I'm looking for long term security that pays more with a longer contract.

Other than a fat paycheck and a lengthy contract, why would West want to play for NJ? If he's worried about CP3 leaving the Hornets, wouldn't he be concerned about Williams leaving? My personal opinion is he should have taken the 3 year extension which would be equal to a 4 year contract. He obviously is looking for more. I hope Bird is smart enough to understand this, and doesn't get crazy if he decides to sign West.
Based on West comments I think he cares about winning and getting more money than what the Hornets can offer. He turned down the max that he could get extended by. Thats atleast what I have read.

Like in any job you don't want to stuck with uncertainity and you want to enjoy your job. IMO CP3 and Dwill and there respective teams have more uncertainity to them than the Pacers.

I think if he wants more money then he chooses the Nets. IF he wants to win more then I think he chooses the Hornets or the Pacers in the end. IF he wants a combination of the both then I think the Pacers would poney up 9 mill per.

Gamble1
06-29-2011, 10:08 AM
Some perspective on rebounding numbers

Career averages per 36 minutes

Chandler 11.48
Hibbert 9.00
Hansbourgh 8.87
McRoberts 8.71
Nene 8.39
West 8.11

Perception isn't always reality
I want to make a distinction here that I think is important when you look at per 36 min averages.

West is the only guy in that group who has averaged 36 minutes in a season. I think if you get over used your rebound numbers drop off as result of fatigue. Personally I wouldn't want any pf to average 36 minutes per game and I know it makes it easier to compare players but it doesn't factor in a players stamina.

Larry Staverman
06-29-2011, 10:28 AM
I want to make a distinction here that I think is important when you look at per 36 min averages.

West is the only guy in that group who has averaged 36 minutes in a season. I think if you get over used your rebound numbers drop off as result of fatigue. Personally I wouldn't want any pf to average 36 minutes per game and I know it makes it easier to compare players but it doesn't factor in a players stamina.

The comparison is based on his career average of 32.4 minutes a game. That is 2 eight minute stretches per half.

If he is getting so fatigued that he cannot go 100% for eight minute stretches in the prime of his career what is going to happen as he gets into his 30's. I surely don't want to pay a guy upwards of 8 figures a year who can't even go 32 minutes a night without getting so fatigued his production drops off..

Gamble1
06-29-2011, 10:41 AM
The comparison is based on his career average of 32.4 minutes a game. That is 2 eight minute stretches per half.

If he is getting so fatigued that he cannot go 100% for eight minute stretches in the prime of his career what is going to happen as he gets into his 30's. I surely don't want to pay a guy upwards of 8 figures a year who can't even go 32 minutes a night without getting so fatigued his production drops off..
Almost everybodies production drops off when they get used that much IMO.

Tyler best rebounding year per 36 wasn't last year but the year before when he played 17 min/game before he got injured.

The point is how many times have you seen Tyler gased in a game. I have seen it often and you would be hard pressed to find any pf used that much who wouldn't get fatigued.

vnzla81
06-29-2011, 10:43 AM
I want to make a distinction here that I think is important when you look at per 36 min averages.

West is the only guy in that group who has averaged 36 minutes in a season. I think if you get over used your rebound numbers drop off as result of fatigue. Personally I wouldn't want any pf to average 36 minutes per game and I know it makes it easier to compare players but it doesn't factor in a players stamina.

This excuse is not really helping your point, if West is playing close to 36mpg and he average less than the rest of the guys mentioned how are you going to expect him to keep those rebounds numbers while playing less? just like I said before if we are going to sign a "power forward" that likes to shoot jumpers I rather bring Murphy back, at least he is not going to cost much.

Gamble1
06-29-2011, 10:51 AM
This excuse is not really helping your point, if West is playing close to 36mpg and he average less than the rest of the guys mentioned how are you going to expect him to keep those rebounds numbers while playing less? just like I said before if we are going to sign a "power forward" that likes to shoot jumpers I rather bring Murphy back, at least he is not going to cost much.
I am a firm believer that if you use a guy less and you can get better production out of him especially if your dealing with a guy around 30. The point is if you make a per 36 min comparison it should realized that not everyone can go that long in a game and be productive offensively or defensively. I mean we saw HIbbert gased as well when he was used in long stretches.

Some guys can do it but of the guys listed I don't think Tyler could go all out for 36 min/game for an entire season.

I think we all know that Murphy's game is no where close to David West. Its a silly argument to make IMO.

Justin Tyme
06-29-2011, 11:52 AM
That's not enough rebounding out of your starting PF, especially when your starting center isn't the strongest rebounder to begin with. Its easy to like Tyler because of his tenacity but his game is fairly one dimensional. I think he can be an EXTREMELY effective bench player, but a somewhat mediocre starter. Enough to get by but ultimately you limit your team's potential by starting Tyler Hansbrough.

Count me in on thinking Collison is being severely underrated of late as well, I think he makes a big leap next season. Competition from Hill won't hurt either.


OK, I'm going to play devil's advocate. I'm far from the biggest Hans fan, but "he was a rookie last year." A ROOKIE! You are basically saying he can't get any better at rebounding which is totally unreasonable. That's like saying PG won't get any better this coming season as a shooter, or DC as a PG. How many rebs do you expect out of the starting PF? Obviously more than 6, but realistically how many? Double digits? If so how many double digit PF were there last season? You do realize Foster only averages 7 rebs for his career, and he's held in high esteem as a Pacer rebounder? Just not sure what you are expecting out of Hans with only "1" year experience under his belt?

troyc11a
06-29-2011, 12:05 PM
OK, I'm going to play devil's advocate. I'm far from the biggest Hans fan, but "he was a rookie last year." A ROOKIE! You are basically saying he can't get any better at rebounding which is totally unreasonable. That's like saying PG won't get any better this coming season as a shooter, or DC as a PG. How many rebs do you expect out of the starting PF? Obviously more than 6, but realistically how many? Double digits? If so how many double digit PF were there last season? You do realize Foster only averages 7 rebs for his career, and he's held in high esteem as a Pacer rebounder? Just not sure what you are expecting out of Hans with only "1" year experience under his belt?

West only averages a little over 7 boards and has seen his better days. Tyler had 6 in his first full year. 1 rebound a game is worth 8mill more a year?

Justin Tyme
06-29-2011, 12:08 PM
Some perspective on rebounding numbers

Career averages per 36 minutes

Chandler 11.48
Hibbert 9.00
Hansbourgh 8.87
McRoberts 8.71
Nene 8.39
West 8.11

Perception isn't always reality


How I hate 36, 48, or whatever. They are worthless ar far as I'm concerned. They give the view a player "if" the could play x minutes this could happen. That's like projecting a salesman income for the year on the 1st 2 qtrs sales. There are too many varibles for that to be true.

Hans nor Roberts are EVER going to play 36 minutes, so it's a useless pojection.

Gamble1
06-29-2011, 12:14 PM
West only averages a little over 7 boards and has seen his better days. Tyler had 6 in his first full year. 1 rebound a game is worth 8mill more a year?
Can we stop with the over simplistic arguments. West is a better pnr pnp guy and shoots a higher FG%. Offensively he's better and thats why he's worth more. This isn't to say that Tyler won't be better but that is not a for sure thing.

Justin Tyme
06-29-2011, 12:15 PM
I think we all know that Murphy's game is no where close to David West. Its a silly argument to make IMO.


Yeah, but Murphy's never gased when he just stands around the 3 pt line. :D

Larry Staverman
06-29-2011, 12:19 PM
How I hate 36, 48, or whatever. They are worthless ar far as I'm concerned. They give the view a player "if" the could play x minutes this could happen. That's like projecting a salesman income for the year on the 1st 2 qtrs sales. There are too many varibles for that to be true.

Hans nor Roberts are EVER going to play 36 minutes, so it's a useless pojection.

It is not a projection but a way to compare the rate of production of different players who play different minutes a game. Not perfect but a standard comparison that is used.

I would disagree that it is worthless unless you have a better way to compare stats.

Larry Staverman
06-29-2011, 12:26 PM
Can we stop with the over simplistic arguments. West is a better pnr pnp guy and shoots a higher FG%. Offensively he's better and thats why he's worth more. This isn't to say that Tyler won't be better but that is not a for sure thing.

If you compare two girls one who is a 5 and one who is a 7 then you would say the girl who is a 7 is better looking but it may be the case that you would want to date a girl who was more attractive than the girl who was a 7

More to the point the need is for an athletic PF who can rebound and defend.

The Sleeze
06-29-2011, 12:30 PM
If you compare two girls one who is a 5 and one who is a 7 then you would say the girl who is a 7 is better looking but it may be the case that you would want to date a girl who was more attractive than the girl who was a 7

More to the point the need is for an athletic PF who can rebound and defend.

Dating girls that are 5 and 7......you better watch out for Chris Hansen;)

Lou Bega
06-29-2011, 12:36 PM
Tyler can rebound just fine. Pacers offense was playing a pick and roll w/ him & DC last season. Tyler was @ the free throw line/wing area 17 ft away shooting jumpers. The offense set of the Pacers rarely posts up Tyler down low in isolations.

I would save up $$$$ an invest a max contract in Demarcus Cousins if he pans out in the next 2-3 years like he is capable of. No big man in the league has his skill set. He is the best player drafted in the last 2 years IMO!!!!

troyc11a
06-29-2011, 12:38 PM
Can we stop with the over simplistic arguments. West is a better pnr pnp guy and shoots a higher FG%. Offensively he's better and thats why he's worth more. This isn't to say that Tyler won't be better but that is not a for sure thing.

That's because this should be a simple argument: David West would be a terrible sign. He doesnt rebound that well, defend that well, or block shots that well. Those are the three things we need. Not a one legged has been who stand out at 17' and shoots jumpshots all day. Tyler is more than effecient enough to do that. All we would be doing is bringing in a more experienced, injured, older, less athletic (now) version of what we already have. No way Bird makes such a dumb move.

troyc11a
06-29-2011, 12:40 PM
Tyler can rebound just fine. Pacers offense was playing a pick and roll w/ him & DC last season. Tyler was @ the free throw line/wing area 17 ft away shooting jumpers. The offense set of the Pacers rarely posts up Tyler down low in isolations.

I would save up $$$$ an invest a max contract in Demarcus Cousins if he pans out in the next 2-3 years like he is capable of. No big man in the league has his skill set. He is the best player drafted in the last 2 years IMO!!!!

Cousins scares me but get what you are saying. Common sense tells us we need to get bigger and more athletic. Trying to convince these fans who are only fantasy BB fans is impossible. I have not heard one sensible argument as to why the Pacers should spend their cap space on a player like West.

vnzla81
06-29-2011, 01:35 PM
Can we stop with the over simplistic arguments. West is a better pnr pnp guy and shoots a higher FG%. Offensively he's better and thats why he's worth more. This isn't to say that Tyler won't be better but that is not a for sure thing.

Again remember, HE WAS BETTER the guy is 31 and just got one knee fixed, anyways I can see that nobody is going to change your mind, you have a huge "man crush" on him, not even Graphicher is that blind when talking about Hayward, I am done with this argument have a nice day ;)

troyc11a
06-29-2011, 02:07 PM
Again remember, HE WAS BETTER the guy is 31 and just got one knee fixed, anyways I can see that nobody is going to change your mind, you have a huge "man crush" on him, not even Graphicher is that blind when talking about Hayward, I am done with this argument have a nice day ;)

Thank you for bringing some sanity to this debate. Some people on here are just offended that Tyler is a starter. He could average 30/20 and half the people on here would still complain that he should be a backup.

graphic-er
06-29-2011, 03:02 PM
Thank you for bringing some sanity to this debate. Some people on here are just offended that Tyler is a starter. He could average 30/20 and half the people on here would still complain that he should be a backup.

I am offended that Tyler is a starter, because he don't play a lick of defense, he wont' box out to rebound either, and he is a black hole on offense. I guess it just shows you how terrible the Pacers really are at the 4 position though.

i mean damn dude went to UNC, I thought that program produced some fundamentally sound players for the most part, especially 4 year players.

Rogco
06-29-2011, 03:16 PM
I am offended that Tyler is a starter, because he don't play a lick of defense, he wont' box out to rebound either, and he is a black hole on offense. I guess it just shows you how terrible the Pacers really are at the 4 position though.

i mean damn dude went to UNC, I thought that program produced some fundamentally sound players for the most part, especially 4 year players.


What are you talking about??? Hans actually plays pretty good man on man defense. He needs to improve his block out, but our team rebounding wasn't that bad and a lot of our problems came from our wings not blocking out. Hans only real deficiency in the defense / rebounding last year was help defense. This was due to two things: 1.) he didn't seem to understand where he should be helping and when, and 2.) Granger periodically letting his guy blow right past him f'ing up Hans inside.

Larry Staverman
06-29-2011, 06:50 PM
Dating girls that are 5 and 7......you better watch out for Chris Hansen;)


http://nation.foxnews.com/cheating/2011/06/29/catch-predators-chris-hansen-caught-video-cheating-his-wife

Speaking of Hanson he was just caught on video by the Enquirer with some young blond he has been doing; unbeknownst to his wife.

I guess that undercover video thingy works both ways!

pacer4ever
06-29-2011, 08:37 PM
MikeWellsNBA Mike Wells
@
"@EricPincus: Gut feeling tells me David West ends up with the Pacers" (I agree)
3 hours ago

so Mike thinks we will go after West