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pwee31
06-24-2011, 11:40 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-spears_nba_draft_winners_losers_062411



NEWARK, N.J. – The Sacramento Kings need a new arena and they need to start winning. But if the Kings’ owners are serious about trying to keep the franchise in Sacramento, they also need a star who can help them build back their fan support.

They think they found one in Jimmer Fredette.

The Kings acquired the rights to the former Brigham Young guard in a three-team trade with the Milwaukee Bucks and Charlotte Bobcats during the NBA draft. The consensus national player of the year won over a legion of fans while leading the nation in scoring last season. The Kings, who initially tried to move to Anaheim, Calif., could use the help: They finished second-to-last in the NBA in attendance last season.

Jimmer Fredette was drafted by the Bucks but then traded to the Sacramento Kings.


By landing Fredette, the Kings helped lead a list of winners on draft night. More importantly, they hope Fredette can help them generate ticket and sponsorship revenue and spearhead support for a new arena in Sacramento.

“I know they are going to be there one more year and see how it goes,” Fredette said. “I hope the fans come out and support us. I hope they like our team. I think we will have a very exciting team and I hope we can get more wins. Winning translates to getting more fans out there, and hopefully we’ll be able to keep the organization there.”

The Kings also made a wise move by deciding to play combo-guard Tyreke Evans off the ball. Fredette will likely open next season as the Kings’ starting point guard after Beno Udrih was dealt to Milwaukee in the trade. Evans, the 2010 NBA Rookie of the Year, certainly has the size and scoring ability to play shooting guard. The Kings also got a steal with the last overall pick in the draft in gritty point guard Isaiah Thomas. Fredette, Evans, Thomas and the likely re-signed Marcus Thornton give Sacramento a young and talented collection of guards for years to come.

And thanks to Fredette’s arrival, those years could be spent in Sacramento.

“Jimmer was one of the most exciting players in college basketball the last couple of seasons,” Kings general manager Geoff Petrie said. “If not the best shooter in the draft, he was certainly one of the best. He’ll add a new dimension to our team offensively. He’s an exciting player and I think our fans will enjoy him as well.”

Here’s a look at some of the drafts other winners – and losers.

Loser: Cleveland Cavaliers

The Cavaliers did their due diligence leading into the draft by working out Duke guard Kyrie Irving and Arizona forward Derrick Williams – in addition to also working out Turkish center Enes Kanter, Kentucky guard Brandon Knight and Texas forward Tristan Thompson twice. But the Cavs also let Irving, supposedly the new face of the franchise, nervously wait out their selection without confirming he was the first pick.

The New Jersey native was a near-consensus top pick, so if you’re going to wait that long to tell him, you might as well be daring enough to draft someone else.

“I knew when everybody else knew,” Irving said. “They gave me no indication that they were going to pick me. I was really nervous sitting at that table with my family and my friends.”

Winner: Morris twins

Marcus Morris was expected to be drafted ahead of his twin brother and former Kansas teammate, Markieff. But in a surprise, Markieff was selected 13th overall by the Phoenix Suns. Marcus didn’t have to wait long to also hear his name called: He was picked next by the Houston Rockets. Markieff, who was born seven minutes ahead of Marcus, was drafted seven minutes, 13 seconds ahead of his twin.

“Maybe when I’m 60 I’ll tell him I got one on him,” Markieff said.

Loser: Minnesota Timberwolves

There is no question that Derrick Williams is a talented and athletic combo-forward who has a bright career ahead of him. But the last thing the Wolves needed was another forward, right?

Isn’t Williams more or less the same player as Michael Beasley? Doesn’t Minnesota have enough players who can play either forward position already in Beasley, Kevin Love, Wesley Johnson, Martell Webster, Anthony Randolph and Anthony Tolliver? Minnesota slightly improved its depth at center by trading for aging Band-aid Brad Miller, but Enes Kanter’s talent and potential should have made him a candidate to go No. 2.

The Wolves also tried desperately to trade the second pick, but failed in their efforts to land the type of experienced star they wanted.

“I’m not really focused on that right now. I’m just going to get my body into the best of shape as possible,” Williams said of Minnesota’s logjam at the forward positions.

Winner: Tristan Thompson

Thompson

There were some raised eyebrows when Thompson left Texas after his freshman year, especially because there were several other players in his class that were regarded higher than him. Even in a down draft, the 6-foot-8, 235-pound forward was expected to be selected in the latter half of the lottery. But the highest-drafted Canadian ever was the surprise of the night when he was taken fourth overall by the Cavaliers. Cleveland now has a talented 19-year-old inside-outside combo to build around for the future in Irving and Thompson.

“I know a lot of people never expected it and neither did myself,” Thompson said. “It just shows the wonders that hard work puts in.”

Loser: Milwaukee Bucks and Captain Jack

Stephen Jackson was the Bobcats’ leading scorer in 2010-11, averaging 18.5 PPG.

The Milwaukee Bucks acquired talented – but often disgruntled – swingman Stephen Jackson from Charlotte to join young Brandon Jennings in their backcourt in a three-way trade. While Jackson and Jennings will score a lot of points together, it will be interesting to see how the combustible Captain Jack gets along with stern coach Scott Skiles. Jackson will be playing for his seventh NBA team and third since 2009. The Bucks traded John Salmons, but also acquired guard Beno Udrih and might have landed a steal in 18-year-old Tennessee forward Tobias Harris.

Despite the potential issues, Jennings was excited about Jackson’s arrival.

“Stephen Jackson brings a lot of leadership,” said Jennings, who attended the draft. “He’s won an NBA championship. He plays hard every night. He wants to win. And I think he is going to be that voice in our locker room that we need.”

Winner: Utah Jazz:

The Utah Jazz quietly improved their team by adding Kanter (No. 3) and Colorado guard Alec Burks (No. 12). Kanter proclaimed a day earlier that he is the best player in the draft, and with his size, scoring ability and rebounding he has the talent and potential to prove he is right. While Burks isn’t a household name, he was a proven scorer in college, averaging 20.5 points last season as a sophomore. The Jazz have an intriguing group of young players in Kanter, Burks, Derrick Favors, Gordon Haywood and Jeremy Evans.

Loser: Portland Trail Blazers

Felton

The Portland Trail Blazers traded one of the most underappreciated players in point guard Andre Miller to the Denver Nuggets and sent athletic guard Rudy Fernandez to the Dallas Mavericks while acquiring point guard Raymond Felton in a three-team trade. The Nuggets were disappointed with Felton after a lackluster offensive-minded performance in the playoffs and were determined to trade him. While Felton is a solid starting point guard, he’s not as experienced a floor leader as Miller. Friends close to Nuggets coach George Karl said he was thrilled about the return of Miller, whom he hated to see dealt in the Allen Iverson trade on Dec. 19, 2006. While Fernandez wanted out, the Blazers helped the NBA champion Mavericks and lost an insurance policy for injury-prone guard Brandon Roy.

Winner: Indiana Pacers

The Pacers acquired veteran guard George Hill in exchange for the 15th selection (Kawhi Leonard), the 42nd overall pick (Davis Bertrans) and the draft rights to Erazem Lorbek. The Pacers not only filled a need for a shooting guard in Hill, but also landed an Indianapolis native who should be a hit with the fans. The Pacers finished last in the league in attendance last season. The former IUPUI star, Darren Collison and Paul George give the Pacers a young core of perimeter players. For Hill, the Spurs could’ve sent him to a lot worse places than his hometown team.

“It is tough, but at the same time things happen for a reason,” Hill said in a statement. “My hat is off to San Antonio for opportunity I had here and I’m really looking forward to coming home to Indiana and helping the Pacers win games.”

Loser: Prospects who left college too early

UCLA forward Tyler Honeycutt, Georgia forward Travis Leslie, Michigan guard Darius Morris, Kentucky guard DeAndre Liggins and Kansas guard Josh Selby all left school hoping to be taken in the first round. None of them were. Boston College guard Reggie Jackson also looked bad by shunning teams for workouts and interviews because he was promised to be selected 24th overall by the Oklahoma City Thunder. Wonder if he could have been drafted higher if he took part in the draft process?

pacer4ever
06-24-2011, 11:43 AM
How are the Blazers a loser? Rudy's time was up there and they got Jordan Hamilton for him and also got Felton for a 35 year old pg. That is a hell of a haul IMO.

pacerfan4life031
06-24-2011, 11:56 AM
Jordan Hamilton actually was sent to Denver

Mono
06-24-2011, 12:04 PM
How are the Blazers a loser? Rudy's time was up there and they got Jordan Hamilton for him and also got Felton for a 35 year old pg. That is a hell of a haul IMO.

Personally, I'd much rather have Andre Miller than Raymond Felton. The words that come to mind when I think of Andre Miller are gritty, savvy, iron-horse, underrated. He has put the Blazers in the playoffs for the past two seasons when (due to injuries) they had no business being there. He is one of those blue collar guys who doesn't get much recognition, but will earn you wins. He's a warrior.

Felton on the other hand.... There are questions about his attitude, he hasn't lived up to his potential in the NBA, he tends to underperform. Sometimes when I watch him play I don't come away with the impression that he cares very much about winning....

I wouldn't do that deal. I think the Blazers lost out on that trade big time. They got younger, but I see them winning fewer games.

Denver added a lot of character to their team with that trade.

CooperManning
06-24-2011, 12:10 PM
How are the Blazers a loser? Rudy's time was up there and they got Jordan Hamilton for him and also got Felton for a 35 year old pg. That is a hell of a haul IMO.

Nuggets get Hamilton, but I still like the trade for Portland. Felton is a nice fit there. If Andre Miller was 30 I wouldn't trade him, but he's 35. Felton's about to turn 27.

aaronb
06-24-2011, 12:21 PM
How are the Blazers a loser? Rudy's time was up there and they got Jordan Hamilton for him and also got Felton for a 35 year old pg. That is a hell of a haul IMO.


Agreed!

I thought it was a pretty solid move by Portland. Even if Felton is a slight downgrade today. He's going to be viable for a heck of a lot longer than Andre Miller.

d_c
06-24-2011, 12:30 PM
How are the Cavs losers for not telling everyone who they were gonna pick until the last day? No sense in making life that easy for your competitors.

They were wise not to tell anyone. There is strategy involved there because they had an additional pick at #4. You don't want other teams getting totally comfortable in knowing what you're going to do at #1 because that could affect you at #4.

SMosley21
06-24-2011, 12:31 PM
How are the Cavs losers for not telling everyone who they were gonna pick until the last day? No sense in making life that easy for your competitors.

They were wise not to tell anyone. There is strategy involved there because they had an additional pick at #4. You don't want other teams getting totally comfortable in knowing what you're going to do at #1 because that could affect you at #4.

Makes sense to not tell other people. Doesn't make sense to not tell the guy you're drafting, considering you want him to be the face of your franchise.

Really?
06-24-2011, 12:32 PM
I love the part about prospects that left early, lol...

Crazy how far some of them slipped.... oh well....

Trophy
06-24-2011, 12:33 PM
How are the Blazers a loser? Rudy's time was up there and they got Jordan Hamilton for him and also got Felton for a 35 year old pg. That is a hell of a haul IMO.

I thought they got a lot better and nearly got a steal out of this.

They traded away an old PG and got a younger and better one in return and it was obvious they weren't very happy with Rudy Fernandez anymore and he needed a new start.

judicata
06-24-2011, 12:34 PM
I love the part about prospects that left early, lol...

Crazy how far some of them slipped.... oh well....

I usually agree, but not this year. Next year most of those guys would not be drafted.

d_c
06-24-2011, 12:35 PM
Makes sense to not tell other people. Doesn't make sense to not tell the guy you're drafting, considering you want him to be the face of your franchise.

He's the #1 overall pick and will have a very nice guaranteed contract to go with it. Safe to say he'll get it over it......if there even was anything for him to get over in the first place.

Merz
06-24-2011, 02:45 PM
I love what the Pacers did, I definitely consider them winners.

Another team I really liked was the Wizards considering they got who I wanted for the Pacers (Singleton and Mack) + Jan Vesely.

LeeTheG7
06-24-2011, 04:18 PM
The blazers turned from the 10th best team in the NBA to top 3 with that move. They got the point guard they always wanted and gave up two players they don't really need. How did the Blazers not come up the winner? As far as the Pacers go they should have gotten a PF but I'll take George Hill because of his defense and he is a smart PG.

pacer4ever
06-26-2011, 05:21 PM
Nuggets get Hamilton, but I still like the trade for Portland. Felton is a nice fit there. If Andre Miller was 30 I wouldn't trade him, but he's 35. Felton's about to turn 27.

I agree and ya that draft was crazy i just figured out today Hamilton got flipped again:laugh:. That makes a little more since now that Denver did that trade IMO.

Hoop
06-26-2011, 09:17 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/06/24/draft.grades/index.html#ixzz1QI9L7pgy


Sports Illustrated likes our pick/trade.

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="grade" width="10%">A+ </td><td class="logo" width="10%"> http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.e1d/img/4.0/global/basketball/nba/logos/pacers_50.png </td><td class="team" width="80%"> Indiana Pacers </td></tr> <tr><td class="analysis" colspan="3"> As was the case with the Mavericks, the Pacers somehow leveraged a pick in a weak draft into a legitimate player. The trade for George Hill is a perfect fit, not only because of his Indiana roots but also because he is a tough, talented, two-way player on a team that is building such an identity. The Spurs clearly realized that unloading Richard Jefferson's contract was nearly impossible, meaning Leonard will have time to grow into the small forward position there. But the Pacers were looking for serious upgrades now and found it in Hill. </td></tr></tbody></table>

Young
06-26-2011, 09:29 PM
I hate to say it but I feel sorry for Cavs fans. Not only do they happen to have two picks in the top 4 during a week draft but they didn't get the best players possible at least at one of the picks.

I understand taking Kyrie over Williams. Me, I think I would have taken Williams but it's not exactly a no brainer. Taking Tristan Thompson at 4? Couldn't have traded back? Did one of the other teams in the top 8 like the guy that much? If that is the guy they really wanted I would think they could have traded down and got a little more. Just taking him at 4 though, even in a weak draft, was not good. I think I would have went with Jonas V or Jan Vesely or taken Williams #1 and Brandon Knight #4.

Don't get me wrong having two picks in the top 4 is nice but this draft wasn't nearly as exciting for the Cavs as it would have been if they had two of the top 4 picks in almost any other draft.

Scot Pollard
06-26-2011, 09:34 PM
I'm not trying to be a homer, but I think we had a top 5 best draft night out of everyone and it only took 1 player and he wasn't even out of this weak *** draft class!

judicata
06-26-2011, 09:38 PM
I hate to say it but I feel sorry for Cavs fans. Not only do they happen to have two picks in the top 4 during a week draft but they didn't get the best players possible at least at one of the picks.

I understand taking Kyrie over Williams. Me, I think I would have taken Williams but it's not exactly a no brainer. Taking Tristan Thompson at 4? Couldn't have traded back? Did one of the other teams in the top 8 like the guy that much? If that is the guy they really wanted I would think they could have traded down and got a little more. Just taking him at 4 though, even in a weak draft, was not good. I think I would have went with Jonas V or Jan Vesely or taken Williams #1 and Brandon Knight #4.

Don't get me wrong having two picks in the top 4 is nice but this draft wasn't nearly as exciting for the Cavs as it would have been if they had two of the top 4 picks in almost any other draft.

I agree. If other guys came out this year, both Irving and Thompson might be on the board after the Cavs make both of their picks.

DeS
06-29-2011, 06:03 AM
I hate to say it but I feel sorry for Cavs fans. Not only do they happen to have two picks in the top 4 during a week draft but they didn't get the best players possible at least at one of the picks.

I understand taking Kyrie over Williams. Me, I think I would have taken Williams but it's not exactly a no brainer. Taking Tristan Thompson at 4? Couldn't have traded back? Did one of the other teams in the top 8 like the guy that much? If that is the guy they really wanted I would think they could have traded down and got a little more. Just taking him at 4 though, even in a weak draft, was not good. I think I would have went with Jonas V or Jan Vesely or taken Williams #1 and Brandon Knight #4.

Don't get me wrong having two picks in the top 4 is nice but this draft wasn't nearly as exciting for the Cavs as it would have been if they had two of the top 4 picks in almost any other draft.

Yep, Cavs fans should be crying now, after watching Global Games tournment U19 Lithuania vs USA friendly (well, there are no friendly games between these teams and it felt like it was finals) game. Raptors pick, Jonas Valančiūnas, dominated game offensively and defencively and practicaly hummiliated 8 pick (2012) Patrick Young which is considered NBA-ready physical player by allowing him to score only 2 points and get 2 rebounds while he was on the court. Jonas ended with 23 point, 11 rebounds, 1 block and handful of altered shots.
Some being sad, some cautious after draft night now raptor fans cosider that they are the winners of this draft and picking the player at #5 is absolute steal.
Here is raptor fans thread for watching live the game: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1122978
At the end there are some video links to youtube for those who like to watch international competitions, care for national team and maybe want to see a couple of future picks playing. Also interessting to note, that in this game played sons of legendary players - Hardaway and Sabonis.

Best wishes,
DeS

pacer4ever
06-29-2011, 06:07 AM
Yep, Cavs fans should be crying now, after watching Global Games tournment U19 Lithuania vs USA friendly (well, there are no friendly games between these teams and it felt like it was finals) game. Raptors pick, Jonas Valančiūnas, dominated game offensively and defencively and practicaly hummiliated 8 pick (2012) Patrick Young which is considered NBA-ready physical player by allowing him to score only 2 points and get 2 rebounds while he was on the court. Jonas ended with 23 point, 11 rebounds, 1 block and handful of altered shots.
Some being sad, some cautious after draft night now raptor fans cosider that they are the winners of this draft and picking the player at #5 is absolute steal.
Here is raptor fans thread for watching live the game: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1122978
At the end there are some video links to youtube for those who like to watch international competitions, care for national team and maybe want to see a couple of future picks playing. Also interessting to note, that in this game played sons of legendary players - Hardaway and Sabonis.

Best wishes,
DeS

I am a huge Jonas fan and think he will be a solid center. I watched the game yesterday. But come on Jonas is 6'11 240 and was playing versus Kids yesterday i mean come on college sophomores verus a grown man in Jonas lol.

Kstat
06-29-2011, 06:30 AM
Jonas is the same age as a college sophmore.

It's just that he was going to against glorified cardboard cutouts of big men. He's the #5 pick in the NBA draft. He should be much better than that frontline.

DeS
06-29-2011, 06:52 AM
Well, i wanted to pay attention to Jonas and Young duel. They both are the same age and in fact - Young is being considered grown NBA ready physical athlete while Jonas is considered being skinny. Although Jonas is taller, some people watched this game to see if Jonas can handle the physical players similar (to some point) to NBA players.

Kstat
06-29-2011, 07:04 AM
Patric Young is barely ready for the SEC. He averaged 3 points a game for Florida last season. He's not even an NBA prospect right now.

I would hope the 6th pick in the draft would beat up on a guy that went 10 games last year without a field goal.

Merz
06-29-2011, 07:26 AM
I think he is referring to Young as an NBA prospect because DraftExpress has him going 8th in their 2012 mock draft. Of course its way too early and the mocks will be completely different a few months into the next NCAA season.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/

Kstat
06-29-2011, 07:41 AM
He was a highly touted all-american last year, then got to college and realized he couldn't play basketball. I think at this point when you do mock draft a year ahead of time, youre just searching for names.

Merz
06-29-2011, 08:25 AM
I agree, I was just pointing out what the other poster was referring to. I saw 6 Florida games last season. Young played solid defense in half of them but was a complete non factor, outside of setting a few screens and getting a couple rebounds, on offense.

I agree the Jonas V should dominate him

DeS
06-29-2011, 01:53 PM
Thanx Merz, this is really what i was referring to. I appreciate your explanation.
I'm just wondering, if these players are so bad, why USA are sending them into international competition? You will be loosing points in overall basketball country rating.

Kstat
06-29-2011, 02:49 PM
Thanx Merz, this is really what i was referring to. I appreciate your explanation.
I'm just wondering, if these players are so bad, why USA are sending them into international competition? You will be loosing points in overall basketball country rating.

Probably because nobody cares about USA's international country rating. They are the Olympic champs and the world champs. USA basketball has always been about winning tournaments. These junior team skirmishes don't really get much importance.

These aren't bad players necessarily, but they are far, far from the best group of 19-year olds. A handful of them have a shot to be in the NBA in 2-3 years. Jeremy Lamb is the one real blue-chipper on the team, but he's more of a defensive guy. It isn't like they are sending a bad team on purpose. It's just that they could only get players that needed some extra exposure to add to their NBA resumes. The top American 19 year olds are either already in the NBA (Knight, Irving, Harris) or simply don't need the exposure (Barnes, Sullinger, Perry/Terrance Jones, Leslie).

I would also add that even their coach, Paul Hewitt, just got fired from his job for incompetence.

To be fair, the only American freshman capable of really giving Jonas a fight is probably Sullinger, and he's more of a power forward.

DeS
06-30-2011, 03:10 AM
Then i'll say this - something is definitively wrong with USA basketball system and player attitude ;) Ok, i'm not serious and i'm not the one to judge it, but junior competitions could be very useful for the players, league and commertion. We had full-packed arena (up to 13000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAcLvqq6ujM)) of people watching U18 championship (semi-and-final) games in Lithuania.
Jonas is the last person who needs exposure and is playing without any doubts as this is a big honor (club achievements is nothing compared to achievements in national team). Tried he to refuse - he would be eaten alive in our media and forums :)
Well, this is another story and i see, that i'm completely hijacking this thread, so i just say thanks Kstat for explaning sithuation on team USA.

Kstat
06-30-2011, 12:14 PM
Then i'll say this - something is definitively wrong with USA basketball system and player attitude ;) Ok, i'm not serious and i'm not the one to judge it, but junior competitions could be very useful for the players, league and commertion. We had full-packed arena (up to 13000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAcLvqq6ujM)) of people watching U18 championship (semi-and-final) games in Lithuania.

....because that was Lithuania. They're always going to mark games against team USA on the calender. Half of the USA kids probably couldn't spot Lithuania on a map....of Lithuania.

While I do think any college kid would get a lot out of some time abroad, they save their passion for basketball for when the college season starts.



Jonas is the last person who needs exposure and is playing without any doubts as this is a big honor (club achievements is nothing compared to achievements in national team). Tried he to refuse - he would be eaten alive in our media and forums :)

Exactly. Peer pressure is the only way a guy like Jonas is going to play. Nobody is going to pressure Harrison Barnes to play for the honor of the junior national team.

DeS
06-30-2011, 06:03 PM
On a serious note, Valanciunas could probably find something more useful to work on than play in meaningless kid tournaments. Work with a post coach or something. Especially when you plan to spend the second half of summer preparing for the grown ups EuroCup. It's a shame that he is pressurized to waste time like this.
It is quite a limited view. Of course - junior competitions itself are not the most important ones, but federation (guess so, as i'm just basketball fan) is looking into continuity. This team won both U16, U18 competitions and maybe will get some medals as U19, U20 team. And, maybe, this team will be the core of the future Olympics/World championship team - a team who played for years togeather. Take out a couple of important players and you'll ruin the bonds. That's why junior USA teams struggle - every year it's a brand new team which should start gelling from the beginning while oponents have been playing for a long time.

So I don't really understand the hype and pressure from fans in all these other events.
Well, you have to live in the environment to understand this ;) Pressure is not the most important factor. Let's just say that we (players and fans) have different priorities which allows a very small country (2.8mln. people) to remain competitive.

ballism
06-30-2011, 06:34 PM
Heh. How did you manage to dig that post up? I decided it's not worth to get into a discussion about fandom. They always get weird. That's why I erased the post soon after posting. Anyway, if you did somehow find it...

...Let me put it this way - Valanciunas is three heads above most of his teammates. He will probably be in EuroCup this year already. He will leave the "core" of that junior team and those bonds way behind. If any other player of that team will ever make the national team, it will be 3-5 years from now, and that's a maybe.
There is no continuity.

I guess I'm also a bit partial because guys like Sabonis or Yao lost a ton of health due to that kind of radical pressure to participate in every tournament non stop.
Anyway, the reality is, majority of countries only bring their top rosters to Olympics and preOlympic Euros, it's been like this for decades; yet some countries pressure their guys to take part in everything; it's irrational and destructive for their players.

DeS
07-05-2011, 12:10 PM
I guess I'm also a bit partial because guys like Sabonis or Yao lost a ton of health due to that kind of radical pressure to participate in every tournament non stop.
Anyway, the reality is, majority of countries only bring their top rosters to Olympics and preOlympic Euros, it's been like this for decades; yet some countries pressure their guys to take part in everything; it's irrational and destructive for their players.
Well, you made good points, therefore i decided not to argue. But after latest news i think that your assumption about the fact that countries bring their best rosters only to Olympics might be a bit flawed. France is going to bring up to 6 NBA players in Eurobasket 2011, Turkey - up to 5, and of course - Dirk (he kind of should be resting more than others) will play for Germans. I guess soon there will be some top class basketball to watch for hungry people in a lockout land.
Also - today played Lithuania and USA (U19). USA won by 2 points and it was a beauty to watch - a playoff like atmosphere. Jonas (30pts/15rb/4blk/1st/28min.). For those who are eager to see it - i think the game should appear soon in youtube.

Best wishes,
DeS

ballism
07-05-2011, 12:53 PM
Well, you made good points, therefore i decided not to argue. But after latest news i think that your assumption about the fact that countries bring their best rosters only to Olympics might be a bit flawed. France is going to bring up to 6 NBA players in Eurobasket 2011, Turkey - up to 5, and of course - Dirk (he kind of should be resting more than others) will play for Germans. I guess soon there will be some top class basketball to watch for hungry people in a lockout land.
Also - today played Lithuania and USA (U19). USA won by 2 points and it was a beauty to watch - a playoff like atmosphere. Jonas (30pts/15rb/4blk/1st/28min.). For those who are eager to see it - i think the game should appear soon in youtube.

Best wishes,
DeS

I said "Olympics and preOlympic Euros". 2011 is preOlympic EuroBasket. Teams will fight for spots in the Olympics. Wait for 2013 EuroBasket, noone will show up again.
I don't think it's really an argument, it's a fact. It's been like this for decades. And btw, Lithuania is a prime example. When is the last time Lithuania brought its top team for World cup or pre-WC EuroBasket? Never? Same goes for all European teams and USA.
South American teams are the only ones that always seem to bring near-top rosters to World Cup and related tournaments. No idea why the difference.

PS - I watched that U19 game, and I disagree; yes, it was a close game and there was atmosphere, but there was also an unbearable amount of bad, stupid basketball. It was basically one on five efforts, both defensively and offensively. I don't know what Valanciunas could possibly get from that tournament.

DeS
07-05-2011, 02:40 PM
Sorry about preOlympics - my bad. Regarding Lithuania example - i'm not really sure. LT federation allways tries to assemble best players, but it rarely happens. Even in olympics our NT teams surprise us.


PS - I watched that U19 game, and I disagree; yes, it was a close game and there was atmosphere, but there was also an unbearable amount of bad, stupid basketball. It was basically one on five efforts, both defensively and offensively. I don't know what Valanciunas could possibly get from that tournament.
It depends on what you are calling a good basketball. I would not sleep a night to see it and for you - it is bad and stupid basketball. Everything is relative.
As for Valanciunas - i guess everything that made him #5 pick. There is a saying that "the best practice is the battle itself" (or similar). These are the most important games for him. He is the most responsible person in these games. He is learning carrying a team, being clutch in the pressure moments - you can't learn it during practice. During his rookie year he will not play such the important games, bet you'll never see him leaving a court with tears in the eyes during these 82 games. Even in NT (if he will make it) - he will not play such a big role and will not learn that much as playing for U19 team. Maybe, it is even better for him to pass on NT.

Best wishes,
DeS

ballism
07-06-2011, 12:08 AM
As for Valanciunas - i guess everything that made him #5 pick. There is a saying that "the best practice is the battle itself" (or similar). He is the most responsible person in these games. He is learning carrying a team, being clutch in the pressure moments - you can't learn it during practice. During his rookie year he will not play such the important games, bet you'll never see him leaving a court with tears in the eyes during these 82 games.

So basically, he'll learn to play with more energy and learn to try to do everything because there's no team play in those games?
Well, imo that's not the way to go.
Playing basically pickup basketball instead of learning a single post move or working on weights - that's a bad development plan for his NBA future.



It depends on what you are calling a good basketball. I would not sleep a night to see it and for you - it is bad and stupid basketball. Everything is relative.


I'm not looking at this from fan perspective, I'm simply evaluating the quality of play.

DeS
07-06-2011, 06:26 AM
I guess, you well know that LT team had (injur.) to play this game without any PG (especially - without second best player on the team) this game. Therefore you can not expect a quality. USA got 19pt lead, because first 2 quarters team was searching for the ways to play without PG.
But this game was a Battle, miraculous combacks (8 points in 37 seconds to tie the game) of both teams - everything a basketball fan can dream of :)
Anyway, everyone who'd like to see it, who is fan of team USA, fan of basketball, game is in youtube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE5ZZjUN2V0

Regarding Valančiūnas - you don't learn winner mentality, being clutch, handling pressure, bearing responsibility and a lot other things in a gym or practice.

ballism
07-06-2011, 06:48 AM
Again, I'm not looking at this from "everything a fan might dream about" perspective. And honestly, aside from the last 6 minutes, there was little a fan may like in that game anyway. Unless fans love frustrating execution.

Anyway, all you say could be said about a street pickup game. These games aren't really much more than that. Besides, energy and heart are not the things Valanciunas lacks. Skills and strength are. Trying to grab a board among 5 teenage americans while your teammates take a rest or whatever they were doing - it does not prepare you for the NBA. It's a waste of time and an injury risk.

DeS
07-06-2011, 08:27 AM
Well, i'm just trying to be helpful to the people who actually care about their team and like such the games. My opinion about the game is also very honest one, maybe even more honest than yours :)
If you really think that these games are not much more than street pickup games, then i absolutely agree with you. I just can't figure out - how you can think so. Guess you have your arguments, but let's leave it at that.

Best wishes,
DeS

ballism
07-06-2011, 09:29 AM
It's not very different in terms of development for NBA. I'm sure it's different for fans.

I didn't see much Valanciunas could bring from those games to NBA in terms of skills. He played with energy, sure - but Valanciunas had that incredible motor long before this tournament.
So, what is he getting skill wise? They aren't even using his best skill well - they aren't running pick and roll properly. I saw Valanciunas setting picks numerous times like he did with Lietuvos Rytas, and how many of those did his junior teammates use? One in every 20 maybe, the rest ended up with weird passes to a covered guy. How much help rebounding did he see? Help defense? Was he learning to box out for rebounds? - no, because there was no point, every time he'd box out, there were one or two free Americans right in front of him to grab an offensive board.
So again, what was he learning skill wise that he can't do that well already? Learning to make clutch put backs? Come on. He should be in Tim Grover's or some other gym working on his body and post skills, instead of risking injury in meaningless, low quality games. It would help him much more in the NBA.


Well, i'm just trying to be helpful to the people who actually care about their team and like such the games.
Well yes, I'm talking about what's good for the player, not what's good for the fans of national team.
And lets be honest, if he gets injured in one of these games, it will be terrible for Lithuanian basketball. Flashbacks of Sabonis?

pacer4ever
07-08-2011, 08:33 AM
Toronto Raptors are gonna be huge winners IMO

pacer4ever
07-08-2011, 08:35 AM
So basically, he'll learn to play with more energy and learn to try to do everything because there's no team play in those games?
Well, imo that's not the way to go.
Playing basically pickup basketball instead of learning a single post move or working on weights - that's a bad development plan for his NBA future.



I'm not looking at this from fan perspective, I'm simply evaluating the quality of play.

are you watching Jonas today? He has been un freaking real. I liked watching him in euro league and think he will be a really good NBA player in a few years. He is an actual post player which is becoming rare in the NBA.

ballism
07-08-2011, 09:23 AM
Missed the 1st half. Looking at stats, that must've been the best part. Still, great 2nd half from him. Confidence so high that it was almost a bad thing. 1 minute left, Lithuania has the lead, Jonas gets the ball with 20 sec on the shot clock at the 3 pt line... and he tries to make a Nowitzki like drive? :)

pacer4ever
07-08-2011, 09:53 AM
Missed the 1st half. Looking at stats, that must've been the best part. Still, great 2nd half from him. Confidence so high that it was almost a bad thing. 1 minute left, Lithuania has the lead, Jonas gets the ball with 20 sec on the shot clock at the 3 pt line... and he tries to make a Nowitzki like drive? :)

lol ya he tried to drive it like he was Kobe or LBJ pretty lol way of control. The commentator said Jonas will be working on his mid range game for the NBA. They also said his club team wont let him shot mid range lol.(that's good for his development in the NBA IMO he will have plenty of time to shoot and perfect a mid range game. All they do every day in shoot around is shoot so it will improve. His low post game will be so valuable ) America up next i think i will go to bed now lol.

He had a bunch of highlight dunks a few alley hoops great to watch.


have you heard of Michal Michalak of poland ? He had a hell of a game and was lights out from long range.



wow what a Joke USA is embarrassing right now so freaking sloppy im embarrassed for them.


Russia's 6'5 pg is lighting us up Dmitry Kulagin has 14 pts and 5 rebs after 1

ballism
07-08-2011, 11:58 AM
It just seems that Russia's teams have a game or two like that in every tournament.
US didn't send a very good team to begin with, and this was an especially poor game for them. But got to give credit to Russia, they played hard and pretty much to their potential.
I'll be surprised if they have much left for Lithuania tomorrow.

pacer4ever
07-08-2011, 12:00 PM
It just seems that Russia's teams have a game or two like that in every tournament.
US didn't send a very good team to begin with, and this was an especially poor game for them. But got to give credit to Russia, they played hard and pretty much to their potential.
I'll be surprised if they have much left for Lithuania tomorrow.

USA has the worst pg i have ever seen for an American national team im embarrassed

Kstat
07-08-2011, 12:12 PM
USA has the worst pg i have ever seen for an American national team im embarrassed

Joe Jackson isn't a bad player. Like most of the guys on this team, he was just out of his league.

BPump33
07-08-2011, 01:10 PM
AlexKennedyNBA

Greg Smith wasn't drafted, but he has received interest from several teams. Miami and Indiana extended training camp invites before lockout.

ballism
07-09-2011, 12:28 PM
Ok... so far it seems like Lithuania - US semis would have been far more watchable.

Middle of the 2nd quarter, Russia down by 30+ points.
Valanciunas is unfair advantage here. Russian center isn't even going to the paint on offense anymore. Just takes 3s. On defense, 3-4 of them trying to collapse on Jonas, Jonas still gets the board and reverse dunks it....
I say let Russians get Mozgov or Sasha Kaun for fans' sake.

DeS
07-11-2011, 10:22 AM
We are the champions... of the world ;) Some 9000 fans went abroad to see finals. Thousands of people will meet U19 players in capital (Vilnius) and basketball capital (Kaunas). Tonight there will be a big fiesta in Lithuania. I'm just very happy, so excuse me for this offtopic paragraph.
Regarding MVP Jonas Valančiūnas, i'm still with my initial opinion that Raptors are winners. Some of the scouts, media are hyped some are cautious and are nitpicking Jonas flaws. But in general i share sentiments with one (Scott Carefoot) blogger:

Have I criticized Valanciunas enough so that I don’t come off as a fanboy? Have the hater sharks been fed their chum? OK, let’s get to the inevitable fawning.This kid is talented, driven, passionate about the game and about winning, and I’m now convinced that he has more upside than anyone to come out of the 2011 NBA Draft. If you watched Jonas Valanciunas in this tournament and you still believe he wasn’t worth a fifth overall pick in that draft class, you’re an idiot and I’m not interested in engaging with you in a debate about his potential.
http://blogs.thescore.com/raptorblog/2011/07/10/throwing-pebbles-at-the-jonas-valanciunas-hype-train/#more-4348

Ryan
07-12-2011, 08:03 PM
how can there be winners and losers when none of these people have played a minute yet? never understood the logic in doing columns/threads about this. complete waste of time.

DeS
07-13-2011, 01:07 AM
Sorry

ballism
07-19-2011, 09:10 AM
Btw, is anyone following U20 EuroBasket?
How about Nikola Mirotic at U20 level... 41-14 last night, 29-9 average. Bulls' pick at no.23 (nice number btw). Well, Houston's pick originally.

Also - how about that Spain. They naturalised both Mirotic and Serge Ibaka in recent past. It's getting unfair.

pacer4ever
07-19-2011, 10:09 AM
Btw, is anyone following U20 EuroBasket?
How about Nikola Mirotic at U20 level... 41-14 last night, 29-9 average. Bulls' pick at no.23 (nice number btw). Well, Houston's pick originally.

Also - how about that Spain. They naturalised both Mirotic and Serge Ibaka in recent past. It's getting unfair.

I watched his 41 and 14 game pretty insane his game is so complete. He would of been a top 10 pick in the draft if he could of come over right away. To bad they have to wait 4 years. The kid was a steal at #23.

ballism
07-20-2011, 04:01 PM
Man, Mirotic looks kind of like Valanciunas did in U19. Unfair advantage.
Except Mirotic isn't miles ahead of everyone else in terms of size and muscle. He's using skills and mind to dominate. Which is even more impressive.

Another 27-12-4, this time against possibly the best opponent in the tourney. On 13 shots.

Merz
07-20-2011, 10:49 PM
I watched his 41 and 14 game pretty insane his game is so complete. He would of been a top 10 pick in the draft if he could of come over right away. To bad they have to wait 4 years. The kid was a steal at #23.

It's the Bulls...so it's not too bad. It's too bad they don't have to wait 8 years.

But then again if they didn't have to wait 4 years he would of been drafted much higher, as you said, and the Bulls wouldn't have gotten him...so maybe it is too bad.

Gamble1
07-21-2011, 09:40 AM
It's the Bulls...so it's not too bad. It's too bad they don't have to wait 8 years.

But then again if they didn't have to wait 4 years he would of been drafted much higher, as you said, and the Bulls wouldn't have gotten him...so maybe it is too bad.
Well if its 4 years then the rookie wage scale doesn't apply to him. Hopefully Lebron adn them are gone by the time he gets there..

pacer4ever
08-19-2011, 12:50 AM
After watching Jonas Valanciunas for the past 2 months I think he may have been the #1 pick if he got more exposure the guy has rare agility and mobility for his size. He really does it all and the C position great re bounder great post player great teammate. I am defiantly really impressed with Jonas. He has all the skills and the intangibles the kid plays with so much heart.

ballism
08-19-2011, 06:53 AM
Indeed, he's playing at quite insane level for his age so far.
The numbers are through the roof, and he's playing mostly against Pau Gasol, Ibaka, Marc Gasol, Mozgov.
Per 36 numbers over the last three friendlies are close to 27-12-5 (blocks).

The D is still suspect, he still needs to add some muscle, there are a ton of fouls. But overall it's an eye-opening performance agaisnt NBA level competition.

Doddage
08-19-2011, 08:05 AM
I bet the Raptors were thrilled when the Cavs passed on Valanciunas. He should be a nice piece to go along with DeRozan, Ed Davis, and probably another lotto pick in next year's loaded draft (Barnes, McAdoo, Teague?).

ballism
08-19-2011, 08:33 AM
For all it matters (it's only friendly FIBA games), I was very impressed with Kanter as well. I only saw one performance and he didn't play that much but he's a beast. It's nice to see him playing well after so much time off.
It will be fun to see the actual EuroBasket. There should be a direct Valanciunas - Kanter matchup early on.
Also, Stanko so far looks quite miserable. Lorbek on the other hand looks solid, and Bertans (the guy we traded to Spurs) had one very impressive game considering he's so young and thin.


By the way, how amazing is Spain? They had their ups and downs. But this year's Spain is arguably the best non-USA team ever - on paper. There's legitimately 2 NBA level players at every position.
This team is by far more talented than the one that played against the Kobe/LeBron team in Olympics a few years ago.

C- Marc Gasol / Pau Gasol (both start though)
PF - Ibaka / Felipe Reyes
SF Rudy Fernandez / Victor Claver (drafted by Blazers in the 1st round '09, a bigger Chase Budinger type)
SG Navarro / Sergio Llull (amazing young rising star in Europe, owned by Denver)
PG Calderon / Rubio

I can't think of a more talented national team outside of Dream Teams.
'89-90 Yugoslavia teams maybe had that kind of talent (Drazen Petrovic, Kukoc, Divac, Dino Radja, Danilovic, Paspalj), but they were all very young except Petrovic. Spanish team is led by veterans.
This will be an amazing tournament just for the sole reason that we can watch this Spanish team.

ballism
08-21-2011, 04:01 PM
Turkey is beyond miserable.
I have no idea how a team with Omer Asik, Hedo Turkoglu, Ilyasova, Enes Kanter, Semih Erden and Kerem Tunceri be so bad. There must be serious chemistry issues we don't know about.

pacer4ever
08-21-2011, 04:13 PM
For all it matters (it's only friendly FIBA games), I was very impressed with Kanter as well. I only saw one performance and he didn't play that much but he's a beast. It's nice to see him playing well after so much time off.
It will be fun to see the actual EuroBasket. There should be a direct Valanciunas - Kanter matchup early on.
Also, Stanko so far looks quite miserable. Lorbek on the other hand looks solid, and Bertans (the guy we traded to Spurs) had one very impressive game considering he's so young and thin.


By the way, how amazing is Spain? They had their ups and downs. But this year's Spain is arguably the best non-USA team ever - on paper. There's legitimately 2 NBA level players at every position.
This team is by far more talented than the one that played against the Kobe/LeBron team in Olympics a few years ago.

C- Marc Gasol / Pau Gasol (both start though)
PF - Ibaka / Felipe Reyes
SF Rudy Fernandez / Victor Claver (drafted by Blazers in the 1st round '09, a bigger Chase Budinger type)
SG Navarro / Sergio Llull (amazing young rising star in Europe, owned by Denver)
PG Calderon / Rubio

I can't think of a more talented national team outside of Dream Teams.
'89-90 Yugoslavia teams maybe had that kind of talent (Drazen Petrovic, Kukoc, Divac, Dino Radja, Danilovic, Paspalj), but they were all very young except Petrovic. Spanish team is led by veterans.
This will be an amazing tournament just for the sole reason that we can watch this Spanish team.

im watching Spain right now. Is Rubio hurt? Slovenia really sucks lol but to be fair Spain is a more house now with Ibaka and the Gasols playing.


o no Rudy just got hurt. How has Dragic been playing I just turn the game on.

DeS
08-22-2011, 08:08 AM
I bet the Raptors were thrilled when the Cavs passed on Valanciunas. He should be a nice piece to go along with DeRozan, Ed Davis, and probably another lotto pick in next year's loaded draft (Barnes, McAdoo, Teague?).

Actually - they there not thrilled. At least fans. Many of them were unhappy (or - not too happy). Now they are excited.
Btw, Kanter (no. 3) is playing bad. Only bball experts can see good things in his play. As for now - he doesn't seem to be a difference maker, far from that.