PDA

View Full Version : Tbird 2011 official mock draft, my big board, and calling my shot on what I think our Pacers do



RoboHicks
06-22-2011, 11:50 PM
Tbird 2011 official mock draft, my big board, and calling my shot on what I think our Pacers do
Written by thunderbird1245

Link (http://www.pacersdigest.com/wordpress/?p=519)

Less than 24 hours before the curtain rises on the 2011 NBA draft, and still there is mass confusion and little certainty about what will happen around the league in general and for our Pacers. Everybody in the world it seems tries to post a mock draft about what will happen, which in reality is kind of a goofy exercise in futility…..after all, who can possibly predict what some of these mostly inept franchises might do on a draft night? Factor in wildly different opinions on individual players, executives with different agendas and job pressures, and a looming lockout in a few days, and you have a recipe for variety of odd moves that will likely have some fans scratching their heads. Trying to apply common sense to how some teams and executives might think without having all of the same information they have is extremely difficult and usually foolhardy.

But since everyone else is doing it, I am going to try it again this year after swearing to myself last year I’d never try this again.

And of course, within this mock draft I will expand on our own Pacers move, and give my reasoning for why I think this is how it all shakes out.

First of all, let me present my own personal big board.

Players I have no film of, and have not studied at all:* Enes Kanter, Jan Vesely, Bismack Biyombo, Jonas Valanciunas, Donatas Motiejunas, Jeremy Tyler, Davis Bertans, Nikola Mirotec.

That is 8 possible players who are at least very possible to go in the first round, some very high in the lottery even, that I haven’t seen play either live or on film. All I know about them, just like you and most of these draft experts, is just what I have heard from other people or read online. So any opinion on these guys we all need to take with a grain of salt until we actually see them ourselves. If we somehow end up with one of them, we neither can really celebrate or criticize with any real basis of knowledge, to pretend otherwise would be silly. Therefore, I will keep them in a separate category on my own big board. Strictly going from what I have read about them and based on what I think our exact team needs are, I’d put these 8 in this order:

1. Enes Kanter….I’d be very worried if I were a team taking him based on just how long it has been since he actually played and competed, but for what we need he would be my first pick ONLY among this group.

2. Jan Vesely

3. Jonas Valanciunas

Undraftable by us: Bismack Biyombo, Donatas Motiejunas, Jeremy Tyler, Davis Bertans, Nikola Mirotic

I know listing those 5 guys as “undraftable” by us and off my big board is somewhat controversial, but for varying reasons with each one of those guys, that is how I feel. Biyombo is way too much of a project, Motiejunas isn’t my kind of player, Tyler’s background and basketball IQ concerns me, and contract issues are too deep for me to think we should risk selecting Bertans or Mirotec at any point in the first round.

The other 3 remain on my board, but in a separate category since I’ve never seen them play before myself, therefore anything I’d really say about them is a guess.

Ok, so my “big board” among the rest of the players eligible to be drafted is the following:

1. Kyrie Irving

2. Derrick Williams

3. Kawhi Leonard

4. Brandon Knight

5. Alec Burks*

6. Chris Singleton*

7. Darius Morris

8. Jimmer Fredette*

9. Nikola Vucevic*

10. Klay Thompson*

11. Tristan Thompson*

12. Marcus Morris*

13.* Tobias Harris*

14. Jordan Hamilton*

15. Marshon Brooks*

16. Markieff* Morris

17. Justin Harper

18. Kory Joseph

19. David Lighty

20. Trey Thompkins

21. Shelvin Mack

22. JuJuan Johnson

23. Josh Selby

24. Tyler Honeycutt

25. Charles Jenkins

So, based on my viewing of tape on players all across the country, that is my top 20 on my PACERS board….if I were evaluating players for a different team, I might have a couple different players here or there, and the order might change slightly, but for us, that is how I would rank them.

I assume some of you would protest me not listing PG Reggie Jackson. To me, his knee injury is a concern, but considering that his camp isn’t apparently sharing his medical history with teams at all either, that is a giant red flag to me and would take him off my board.

Ok, so my own draft board is laid out for all to see. No surprises I am sure to those who actually read my 10 draft profiles, which are marked with an asterisk * up above.

I regret not making time for a really indepth 11 article on Darius Morris, who I feel is a potential really nice player in this draft. In my “best of the rest” article I compared him to Steve Blake, but I think that is his floor…..a pure point guard with size and athleticism, I think he reminds me a little of a poor man’s Ron Harper, a player I used to really like. Morris sees the floor very well, has the vision to see over smaller defenders, has a confidence and flair to his game, and cuts well off the basketball. Defensively I think he can guard 2 positions depending on the matchups, and his greater defensive talent/potential plus his size is why I ranked him ahead of Jimmer Freddette for us slightly.

Klay Thompson has grown on me some since I first did his profile, not because I think he will suddenly be a better defender than I thought originally (he won’t, he will be a sieve still), but because I think offensively he is better than I may have thought even. And while I don’t think that right now Tristan Thompson is really all that good of a basketball player, I do think he at least has a bit more potential down the road than either Morris twin, though each of them would be a much safer selection. Vucevic is where he is due to the overall lack of centers in general, and the fact that I think he can easily be our long term back up 5 man for years, and possibly can develop to the point that that position becomes a major position of strength for us…..and of course not having to overpay for centers is really good cap management going forward.

—————————————————————————————————————————————————— —-

Ok, with all of that out in the open, here is my mock draft as of 10PM Wednesday, June 22. This draft will be a little different, because I am going to forecast some trades in here that havent happened yet, which is a goofy thing to attempt to predict but I am doing it anyway. Hope you enjoy:

1. Cleveland : Kyrie Irving. No shocking move here.

2. Minnesota: Derrick Williams. I don’t think Minnesota gets a deal done, despite trying very hard, at least on draft night.

3. PROJECTED TRADE: Washington trades up to #3 and takes Enos Kanter. Utah gets the #6 and #18 picks in the draft in the deal, might be a player or 2 involved as well.

Isn’t projecting trades more fun?????

4. PROJECTED TRADE: Sacramento moves up to #4 and takes Brandon Knight, the 3rd straight year they take a player coached by John Calipari. Cleveland gets #7 from Sacramento and some other assets, could be some money involved coming from Cleveland, and a player headed from Sacramento to Cleveland.

5. Toronto selects Tristan Thompson. I have no idea what Toronto is doing in general, so this is more of a guess than anything. But Thompson is more highly rated than I have been able to understand, and he is from Toronto, so let’s give him here.

6. Utah selects Kawhi Leonard. Leonard is a nice pick up for them, as he improves them greatly defensively and is a nice fit for the Jazz next to Gordon Heyward long term.

7. Cleveland selects Jan Vesely. Vesely I have never seen play, but apparently he is very athletic and would make a nice long term screen/roll partner with Kyrie Irving.

8. Detroit selects Kemba Walker. Detroit needs to start making some sense of a muddled roster, and their new owner wants results immediately. Enter Walker, who becomes a starter and de facto team leader in Detroit from day 1.

9. Charlotte selects Marcus Morris. Another reasonably safe and unexciting pick for the league’s most boring franchise. Having said that, they need ready to play talent and Morris is going to be able to get rotation minutes with them immediately.

10. PROJECTED TRADE: Houston moves up and selects: Jonas Valanciunas. Houston gets the 10th pick and pick #40 from Milwaukee, Milwaukee gets pick #14 and #23 from Houston

11. Golden State selects Chris Singleton. Very good move by the defensively challenged Warriors in my judgment if it plays out this way.

12. Utah selects Jimmer Freddette, making everyone in Utah very happy.

13. PROJECTED TRADE: Indiana trades #15,* and AJ Price to Phoenix. Indiana is on the clock. Phoenix makes this move since Fredette is gone, and they need a legitimate point guard with experience for Steve Nash. Plus, they can move down and still get the guy they want.

OK, SO NOW IT IS TIME TO CALL MY SHOT!

In this scenario, many rumored targets are gone, but remaining on the board are Bismack Biyombo, Marshon Brooks, Markieff Morris, Nikola Vucevic and Alec Burks among others.

This is an easy call for me to make:

With the 13th pick in the 2011 NBA draft, the Indiana Pacers select ALEC BURKS, SG, COLORADO.

I don’t love Burks as much as I loved Paul George last year, but he is my favorite player in this draft. He is 2 1/2 years younger than Marshon Brooks, can get to the rim at will, is a willing and capable passer, and I think he can even play some point guard in emergency situations. He needs to get stronger no question, and I see no reason why he won’t as he physically matures. Right now his range is 18 feet or so, he needs to expand that to the NBA line at some point, but he is a hard working young man from all accounts and has an uncanny knack as an elite scorer that we need, especially as a slasher and isolation guy in time. He can be our third or 4th wing in our rotation immediately, and long term projects to me as a 20 points per game* type guy assuming he develops as I think he will. An almost perfect prototype player skill wise right between Danny Granger and Paul George, since he would be immediately from day 1 our best ballhandling wing. He also will quickly be a strong ballhandler in the screen/roll game I feel, and be our best threat in screen/roll other than possibly Collison. To me in this scenario he clearly would be the best player available. No offense to all of you Marshon Brooks fans, but I just simply think Burks is a superior player…..and I don’t even really see it being all that close.

14.* Milwaukee takes Marshon Brooks.

15. Phoenix takes Markieff Morris, who they would have taken anyway at #13 perhaps.

16. Philadelphia takes Nikola Vucevic.

17. New York takes Bismack Biyombo.

18. Utah (now on the clock after trading down) takes Nikola Mirotic. Nice move by Utah, as they can stash the highly rated Mirotic overseas. In this scenario, Utah already has made 2 selections and wouldn’t want a third rookie on their payroll for 2011/2012.

19. Charlotte takes Jordan Hamilton. Charlotte is a perfect match for his game, as the Bobcats need outside shooting very very badly. They will consider Hamilton I think at 9 even tomorrow night.

20. PROJECTED TRADE: LA LAKERS ACQUIRE PICK #20 FROM MINNESOTA FOR $3 MILLION IN CASH. LA Lakers then select Malcolm Lee, 6’6 PG from UCLA.

21. Portland selects Kenneth Faried

22. PROJECTED TRADE: INDIANA ACQUIRE PICK #22, AND* KOSTA KOUFOS FROM DENVER FOR BRANDON RUSH AND PICK #42

I would personally clearly go with Darius Morris, but I believe Indiana would want to go big here…..if Lance is really as good as Bird seems to think, moving Rush and Price on draft night clears playing time for him, and Morris would only be in the way if we took him, so with this move I am thinking Indiana must have a clear front court guy to take.

WITH THE #22 PICK IN THE 2011 NBA DRAFT, INDIANA SELECTS TOBIAS HARRIS, F TENNESSEE

Harris is a very intelligent, clear headed, high character versatile player that probably reminds Bird alot of another very similar player to him, Austin Croshere. The ability to play backup minutes in 2 spots helps Bird pull the trigger to make this move, but mainly it is to clear Brandon Rush out of town and give minutes to others.

23 Milwaukee selects Darius Morris

24. Oklahoma City selects Donatas Motiejunas

25. Boston selects Davis Bertans

26. Dallas selects Jimmy Butler

27. New Jersey selects Iman Shumpert

28. Chicago selects Tyler Honeycutt

29. San Antonio selects Reggie Jackson

30. PROJECTED TRADE CHICAGO TRADES PICK #30 TO THE HOUSTON ROCKETS FOR CASH CONSIDERATIONS.

Houston then selects Justin Harper.

————————————————————————————————————————————— —————-

So there you have it…..I’ll be lucky to get most of any of that correct of course, but I think it is fun to speculate on what other moves around the league might be made.

I do however think I have Indiana’s first pick correct….I think we will move up if we have to, or just stay put and let him fall to us, but one way or the other I think Alec Burks is an Indiana Pacer tomorrow night.

Of course I am biased, because that is exactly who I myself want, with my second choice being Chris Singleton and my third Darius Morris. Harris is in the middle of my preferences, but I believe Bird likely has him higher in his list of preferences than most, so with a clear opportunity to clear salary and still take him, I think Bird would make a move like I described above if it presented itself. But clearly the highlight move for me would be landing Burks, who I’ve had my eye on since I started breaking down film on him in January. High character, with a skill set that perfectly compliments our core players and a high ceiling. Alec Burks is one of the things we really need to be a complete well rounded talented team….we probably need a big enforcing rebounding stud power forward/center a little worse, but THAT guy isn’t in this draft.

We will all see what transpires tomorrow night.

I will be in Fort Wayne until Sunday night, but I will have a draft piece about whatever we do Thursday night when I return. Have fun tomorrow Pacers fans!

As always, the above is just my opinion.

Tbird

http://www.pacersdigest.com/wordpress/wp-content/plugins/add-to-any/share_save_171_16.png (http://www.addtoany.com/share_save)

Pacersalltheway10
06-22-2011, 11:56 PM
I love the trade ideas.

pacer4ever
06-22-2011, 11:59 PM
Alex Burks :pray:

his play making ability is off the charts just watched a game of his that i had on DVR he is one of the few players with serious upside.


i agree about Darius the kid will be in the league for awhile and will be a good pg. I would be happy with him or Reggie Jackson if we acquire a late pick or if Burks or Singleton isn't there.

CooperManning
06-23-2011, 12:03 AM
Alex Burks :pray:

his play making ability is off the charts just watched a game of his that i had on DVR he is one of the few players with serious upside.

I love that you pretty much know more about this draft than anyone on the board but you still say Alex Burks every time. :laugh:

Psyren
06-23-2011, 12:03 AM
Wasn't Burks one of the players that denied working out for the Pacers? (I could be wrong).

If so, why was that? Maybe there's a perfectly good reason, but that doesn't sound like a guy I want on my team.

I Love P
06-23-2011, 12:06 AM
I'm with you P4E I want Burks also, badly. I do not like the idea of trading Price though, everybody hates him on PD and I have no idea why. If we can trade Rush for any pick in the first round it would be a steal IMO. I would be willing to trade Rush for the 60th pick and still think we got the better end of the deal.

There has to be a team picking around 20-25 that would take Rush. Here's to a great Pacers draft tomorrow...:buddies:

pacer4ever
06-23-2011, 12:08 AM
Wasn't Burks one of the players that denied working out for the Pacers? (I could be wrong).

If so, why was that? Maybe there's a perfectly good reason, but that doesn't sound like a guy I want on my team.

yes but that is due to keeping his stock high. his agent thinks he looks bad if he workouts for the Pacers sitting at #15. Plus they don't have time for every team workout. It was all his agent it isn't because he doesn't want to play here. Same with Tristan Thomson it is all about stock and his agent telling him where to go.

PaceBalls
06-23-2011, 12:11 AM
I'm down with that scenario, I think Alec would be a steal at 13. Tbird you are always pretty close to being right on the money.

I am freakin stoked for tomorrow!!! :rockon:

Psyren
06-23-2011, 12:11 AM
yes but that is due to keeping his stock high. his agent thinks he looks bad if he workouts for the Pacers sitting at #15. Plus they don't have time for every team workout. It was all his agent it isn't because he doesn't want to play here. Same with Tristan Thomson it is all about stock and his agent telling him where to go.

Okay! Thanks so much for that clarification, I appreciate it.

Now that just makes him that much more attractive to me. I'm a big fan of his but was a bit unsure about him after he denied our workout, but seeing that it was just to keep his stock high makes him much more attractive.

Pacersalltheway10
06-23-2011, 12:13 AM
Kosta Koufos has a chance to be a good backup center. Never played much but bad 2 breakout games in April where he went for 14 point and 6 rebounds in 27 minutes, 18 points and 9 rebounds in 19 minutes. I'd rather draft Darius Morris simy based off of the fact that I like him better than Harris. But I don't know much about Tobias? Does he have great upside? Could he be another Paul George like pick.

IndySDExport
06-23-2011, 12:15 AM
hmmm.

I'm going to print this out and take it with me when I view the draft tomorrow.
My question: is moving up 2 spots essential to get alec? Especially after houston already traded up and the bucks are taking Brooks at 14 regardless after that trade? I don't see us giving up AJ for 2 spots up in this draft.

Of course, I love reading this and here I am arguing with a hypothetical.

It's a testament to how much I love basketball that I'm this excited by such a week draft. Let the games begin.

Nice Read Tbird.

pacer4ever
06-23-2011, 12:18 AM
I love that you pretty much know more about this draft than anyone on the board but you still say Alex Burks every time. :laugh:

He is one of my favorites in this draft. But i really didn't think we had a shot at him a week ago. Reading all the rumors now of how MIL is willing to trade #10 gives me hope. I really don't know where he goes on draft night i mean he would be a perfect fit with Charlotte IMO. I would be thrilled with Burks Singleton , or trade back and Jackson or Darius. I just want some defense and all those guys play pretty good defense. But Burks has some serious upside the offense he played in at Colorado was ugly has hell and he didn't have much help.

ESPNU does a great job of putting his games and other prospects games on during draft time 2 of his games was on last night.

rel
06-23-2011, 12:18 AM
not gonna lie...when i was reading this, i was scrolling just enough to see the next pick, pretending like it was the real thing lol

...and i got excited for alec burks being an indiana pacer...then realized, booo, this was just a mock draft :P

Pacersalltheway10
06-23-2011, 12:24 AM
If the Pacers get Josh Smith , top 4 pick, or Larry Sanders and number 10 I'll go streaking through my driveway.

IndyPacer
06-23-2011, 12:27 AM
Tbird 2011 official mock draft, my big board, and calling my shot on what I think our Pacers do
Written by thunderbird1245

Link (http://www.pacersdigest.com/wordpress/?p=519)

Ok, so my “big board” among the rest of the players eligible to be drafted is the following:

1. Kyrie Irving

2. Derrick Williams

3. Kawhi Leonard

4. Brandon Knight

5. Alec Burks*

6. Chris Singleton*


With the 13th pick in the 2011 NBA draft, the Indiana Pacers select ALEC BURKS, SG, COLORADO.

I don’t love Burks as much as I loved Paul George last year, but he is my favorite player in this draft. He is 2 1/2 years younger than Marshon Brooks, can get to the rim at will, is a willing and capable passer, and I think he can even play some point guard in emergency situations. He needs to get stronger no question, and I see no reason why he won’t as he physically matures. Right now his range is 18 feet or so, he needs to expand that to the NBA line at some point, but he is a hard working young man from all accounts and has an uncanny knack as an elite scorer that we need, especially as a slasher and isolation guy in time. He can be our third or 4th wing in our rotation immediately, and long term projects to me as a 20 points per game* type guy assuming he develops as I think he will. An almost perfect prototype player skill wise right between Danny Granger and Paul George, since he would be immediately from day 1 our best ballhandling wing. He also will quickly be a strong ballhandler in the screen/roll game I feel, and be our best threat in screen/roll other than possibly Collison. To me in this scenario he clearly would be the best player available. No offense to all of you Marshon Brooks fans, but I just simply think Burks is a superior player…..and I don’t even really see it being all that close.


Well, perhaps I'm not so crazy afterall. It's been a Brooks lovefest around here, but I agree Burks is the guy this team needs. Burks and Singleton are the guys I've been hoping Indiana considers drafting, and I'm very open about trading up a few spots to do it. I agree that Burks would be great for Indiana. He's my top pick for the Pacers, although I'd love getting Singleton as well if Burks is off the board (both may be). I love that Burks is a strong passer, a scorer, and a good team player.

Last year I was very interested in George (I also liked Ed Davis and Ekpe Udoh), but I didn't think Indiana would actually pick George. Thank goodness they surprised me and grabbed him. Can it happen again this year with Burks? I sure hope so.

BTW, another guy who sounds great for Indiana would be Jonas Valanciunas (definitely would require a trade and some luck regarding falling a few spots so he wouldn't be too expensive to acquire) if somehow he fell lower than expected, but I don't think that will happen. I'll freely admit that I've seen very limited footage of him. I just really liked what I saw. Looked good on rebounding and defense; definitely far from the negative "Euro" stereotypes.

DrFife
06-23-2011, 12:29 AM
This has got to be my favorite time of year. Thanks, Tbird and all PD draft junkies, for making my/our hobby so, so enjoyable! :buddies:

P.S. Can we trade Lance and acquire Morris instead, and then go for Greg Smith (earlier than #42) in the 2nd round? Pretty please?!

pacer4ever
06-23-2011, 12:36 AM
On Reggie Jackson my judgment may be clouded. I fell in love with his game after i saw him shutdown 6'8 Harrison Barnes. I just have not seen a 6'3 guy fluster a big time tall scorer like that and i love defensive players so i really like his game. I still think he could be a steal but i understand why he is falling. I hope he does well in the NBA and think he will. But he is a bit of a project on offense pg wise. But if we get Burks who is a scorer and a play maker and a good defender i would be thrilled. We need a scorer and a play maker and Burks fits that bill would be a great pick.


EDIT


BTW great work Tbird and I agree the way he finishes and gets to the rim is a thing of beauty. His ball handling is much needed on the Pacers. Watching Colorado offense was ugly but all the ISO dribbling will really help him in the NBA and their offense showed off his best skill dribbling and passing.

Pacersalltheway10
06-23-2011, 12:44 AM
Is Tobias Harris a good defender? Does he have a high ceiling/good upside?

pacer4ever
06-23-2011, 12:48 AM
Is Tobias Harris a good defender? Does he have a high ceiling/good upside?

high ceiling i don't think so but that's just my opinion he is a savvy player. But a tweeaner and not as athletic as he needs to be to make up for it.

ECKrueger
06-23-2011, 12:52 AM
I'm with you P4E I want Burks also, badly. I do not like the idea of trading Price though, everybody hates him on PD and I have no idea why. If we can trade Rush for any pick in the first round it would be a steal IMO. I would be willing to trade Rush for the 60th pick and still think we got the better end of the deal.

There has to be a team picking around 20-25 that would take Rush. Here's to a great Pacers draft tomorrow...:buddies:

You have to be kidding. I am a Rush supporter, and I don't think AJ is the worst player in the world unlike most. However, how in the hell can you want to trade Rush for the 60th, but want to keep AJ?

For the record I want to keep both, unless there is a trade available. Rush for some mid-first picks would be good. AJ and 15 for Burks...that I would LOVE!

IndyPacer
06-23-2011, 12:54 AM
On Reggie Jackson my judgment may be clouded. I fell in love with his game after i saw him shutdown 6'8 Harrison Barnes. I just have not seen a 6'3 guy fluster a big time tall scorer like that and i love defensive players so i really like his game. I still think he could be a steal but i understand why he is falling. I hope he does well in the NBA and think he will. But if we get Burks who is a scorer and a play maker and a good defender i would be thrilled. We need a scorer and a play maker and Burks fits that bill would be a great pick.



BTW great work Tbird and I agree the way he finishes and gets to the rim is a thing of beauty. His ball handling is much needed on the Pacers.

If the Pacers scouts have all the information and think he would help the team, Jackson falling could be good for us. We know that Bird is always trying to pull off trades. Some have razzed him for not getting some of those deals done, but I don't see how anyone can question the guy after getting Collison for MURPHY. I personally do not want Jackson at #15, but I'd be open to acquiring him later via trade if his medical concerns check out OK. An early 2nd round pick would be ideal, which would minimize the risk for us.

pacer4ever
06-23-2011, 12:59 AM
what is everyone's comparison for Burks? I have saw a lot of poor mans Brandon Roy from experts.

But here is my comparison Kevin Martin slash James Harden(but obviously cant shoot like K-Mart yet)

pacer4ever
06-23-2011, 12:59 AM
DraftExpress Jonathan Givony
Sounds like Houston has sweetned their offer to Milwaukee, now hearing Courtney Lee's name in trade talk for the #10 pick.
5 minutes ago

PacersHomer
06-23-2011, 01:07 AM
This is my quick, biased Pacers big board for tomorrow night. I'm really hoping for Marshon Brooks and a trade up for Jeremy Tyler.

EDIT: Maybe I should put it in. I'm baked!


1. Kyrie Irving/PG/Duke
2. Derrick Williams/F/Arizona
3. Enes Kanter/PF/Kentucky
4. Brandon Knight/PG/Kentucky
5. Jonas Valanciunas/PF/Lithuania
6. Kemba Walker/PG/UConn
7. Marshon Brooks/SG/Providence
8. Bismack Biyombo/PF/Congo
9. Chris Singleton/SF/Florida State
10. Kawhi Leonard/SF/San Diego State
11. Jan Vesely/F/Czech Republic
12. Tristan Thompson/PF/Texas
13. Alec Burks/SG/Colorado
14. Klay Thompson/SG/Washington State
15. Jeremy Tyler/PF/USA
16. Jimmer Fredette/PG/BYU
17. Jordan Hamilton/SF/Texas
18. Donatas Motiejunas/C/Lithuania
19. Kenneth Faried/PF/Morehead State
20. Markieff Morris/PF/Kansas
21. Marcus Morris/PF/Kansas
22. Nikola Vucevic/PF/USC
23. Reggie Jackson/PG/Boston College
24. Tyler Honeycutt/SF/UCLA
25. Tobias Harris/SF/Tennessee
26. Shelvin Mack/PG/Butler
27. Malcolm Lee/G/UCLA
28. Norris Cole/PG/Cleveland State
29. Jimmy Butler/SF/Marquette
30. Davis Bertans/F/Latvia
31. Nikola Mirotic/PF/Montenegro
32. Iman Shumpert/G/Georgia
33. Nolan Smith/G/Duke
34. Chandler Parsons/SF/Florida
35. JaJuan Johnson/PF/Purdue
36. Darius Morris/PG/Michigan
37. Jon Leuer/PF/Wisconsin
38. Charles Jenkins/G/Hofstra
39. Keith Benson/C/Oakland
40. DeAndre Liggins/SF/Kentucky
41. Malcolm Thomas/SF/San Diego State
42. Justin Harper/PF/Richmond

PacersHomer
06-23-2011, 01:07 AM
DraftExpress Jonathan Givony
Sounds like Houston has sweetned their offer to Milwaukee, now hearing Courtney Lee's name in trade talk for the #10 pick.
5 minutes ago

Poor Courtney can't stay in a city haha. Would that be 5 teams in his short career?

D squared fan
06-23-2011, 01:10 AM
I say we select ............Marshon Brooks

CableKC
06-23-2011, 01:11 AM
TBird, about Tobias.....I thought that you mentioned that you thought that Bird didn't like Tweeners....which EXACTLY is what he is. Logically, your trade scenario sends AJ to the Suns....then at #23, there is the option to draft Darius Morris...a sleeper of yours who could be a solid PG....why not just draft him to replace AJ?

IndyPacer
06-23-2011, 01:11 AM
what is everyone's comparison for Burks? I have saw a lot of poor mans Brandon Roy from experts.

But here is my comparison Kevin Martin slash James Harden(but obviously cant shoot like K-Mart yet)

Hmm, how about a younger, lighter weight version of Evan Turner? I realize this isn't the best pitch for taking Burks, as Turner didn't do quite as well as expected in his rookie year, but I can see a lot of similarities between these guys. I think Burks is more athletic, but I think he's got some work to do regarding strength training. I think Burks actually has more potential than Turner long term if he really works on improving his game. Like George (but perhaps to a lesser extent), Burks has most of the important tools he needs to become a very good player. He is just a bit young at the moment.

Will Galen
06-23-2011, 01:16 AM
Thanks T-Bird. I have one complaint though. I went to look for your Alex Burks profile so I could read it again and had a hard time finding it. It's not under your name, but under RoboHicks. And Robo makes a lot of posts.

Here it is for any others who want to read it. http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=64636

Pacersalltheway10
06-23-2011, 01:20 AM
I want Burks so bad.

Another dream scenario:
Rush, #15 for Dooling, #10 : Then trade #10 for 14 and 23. Draft Burks with #14.

pacer4ever
06-23-2011, 01:25 AM
I know Cdash asked in the past where i get all the college basketball games I watch at. Yes Cdash Fresno state is on ESPN 3 sometimes lol.

here is the best legal site http://espn.go.com/espn3/index/_/sport/basketball#

Espn3 is great! If you want to watch any draft prospects most of them are on there still in the archives.


I am watching Kansas v Colorado currently
link
http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=120553&league=NCAAM

got to the date January 22nd under basketball and it is Reggie Jackson and Boston college vs Florida State and Chris Singleton. Reggie and Chris both struggled probably the worst game i have watched of Reggie. But Chris was active as always on defense the kid is a joy to watch. But im sure PD would hate him because he isn't very assertive on offense like Rush but he is a freak on defense reminds me of Derek Mckey. Then i will watch the 2nd UNC BC game where Harrison got revenge and dropped 26 after Reggie shut him down the first time.


Just watch Marshon Brooks vs Jimmy Butler and Marquette and i must say i am not impressed looked like a chucker. But i will watch a few more game before passing judgment. I don't think i saw him pass even once. He was taking a bunch of fade away 3s i must say i do not really want a chucker who cant pass. I mean he scored 20 pts but he was inefficient.

I was more impressed with Jimmy Butler than Marshon
http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=146220&league=NCAAM

I am on a draft cram session trying to watch all theses guys a few times Marshon is the last prospect before i get some sleep.

pacer4ever
06-23-2011, 01:30 AM
Hmm, how about a younger, lighter weight version of Evan Turner? I realize this isn't the best pitch for taking Burks, as Turner didn't do quite as well as expected in his rookie year, but I can see a lot of similarities between these guys. I think Burks is more athletic, but I think he's got some work to do regarding strength training. I think Burks actually has more potential than Turner long term if he really works on improving his game. Like George (but perhaps to a lesser extent), Burks has most of the important tools he needs to become a very good player. He is just a bit young at the moment.

If Turner was as quick as burk he would be great. His problem is he used his size in college to beat people which in the NBA players are stronger. He isn't athletic enough in the NBA to be dominant like he was in college.

Pacersalltheway10
06-23-2011, 05:04 AM
I would love for the Pacers to get Tobias Harris and Alec Burks. Harris has a great work ethic and I think he has a chance to be a really good player. Alec Burks is this years Paul George. I think we'd have one good combo for the future with Alec Burks at SG and Paul George at SF. But I don't know if Bird would go for possible double home runs in back to back years.

LongTimePacerFan
06-23-2011, 06:28 AM
Is it just me, or is Klay Thompson not in your mock? I see him 10th on your big board, but I don't see him going in your predictions.

D-BONE
06-23-2011, 07:22 AM
So, if T-Bird's projections for us played out, we're essentially saying we're comfortable with Lance as the #2 PG, right? That thinking seems a little bit risky/iffy to me.

Sparhawk
06-23-2011, 07:29 AM
Don't care for Tobias Harris for 2 reasons.

1. He's over weight, and looks like he'll have a hard time staying in shape probably.
2. He's a tweener, and doesn't have the athleticism to compensate.

I'd go for Reggie Jackson or Darius Morris.

However, if we don't take either of those guys, I'd love to buy a second round pick, one of the first of the 2nd round and take Josh Selby, Jeremy Tyler or Darius Morris.

pwee31
06-23-2011, 07:50 AM
Love the time and effort. Interesting scenarios, but the Pacers will not take Burks.

Can't see the Pacers drafting a 1st round pick that did not work out for them, unless they're a clear cut no brainer. Ask Jerryd Bayless

pacer4ever
06-23-2011, 07:53 AM
Love the time and effort. Interesting scenarios, but the Pacers will not take Burks.

Can't see the Pacers drafting a 1st round pick that did not work out for them, unless they're a clear cut no brainer. Ask Jerryd Bayless

Burks declined a workout Pacers wanted him too. He would be a no brainier if he slip IMO. But I predict we draft a guy who didn't work out for us i think Bird wants Tristan Thomson.

pacer4ever
06-23-2011, 08:08 AM
So, if T-Bird's projections for us played out, we're essentially saying we're comfortable with Lance as the #2 PG, right? That thinking seems a little bit risky/iffy to me.

well Lance is "the best player on the team" :laugh: I wouldnt be mad but we would need to add a veteran in free agency to play 3rd string so when Lance struggles we have a guy to plug in. Maybe Ramon Sessions via trade?

Pacersalltheway10
06-23-2011, 08:19 AM
Tobias Harris cut his weight from 238 to 225 after he declared for the Draft. He dropped his Body Fat Percentage from 13 to 8%.

PR07
06-23-2011, 08:41 AM
I don't really want Burks. Maybe that would change, but I'd like to get a guy who can shoot from distance.

Kegboy
06-23-2011, 08:54 AM
KOSTA KOUFOS

:yay:

Oh, what I would give to see Shade's head explode...:chin:

15th parallel
06-23-2011, 09:01 AM
I think the Pacers will draft a wing, whoever they think is the best available in case they still have #15. With Dun already a FA and Rush losing charm, there is a strong case that it will be a wing player.

wintermute
06-23-2011, 09:13 AM
I'd prefer the Pacers to draft a big but would be more than happy if Burks drops to us.

Interesting that Tbird thinks we'll go young again, with 19 year old Burks and 18 year old Harris.

On Harris, I think he'll have an NBA career, but in more of a role player sort of way. Think Jared Dudley. Not sure if he's what we need. Being so young and yet fairly productive though, works in his favor.

Really?
06-23-2011, 09:16 AM
Teams and players always seem to forget about mid range games, its always, driving to the lane or hitting from 3. I personally think that is what separates Brooks from a lot of these other draft prospects. To be able to create room in the middle of everyone and get your shot off that is really an impressive trait.

Ozwalt72
06-23-2011, 09:20 AM
I've finally settled on the Pacers going wing in this draft. It bothered me at first, but I've started to think that we only really have two wings that I'm reasonably sure will be on the team at the start of the season. George and Granger will both get big minutes but who is going to back them up? So Alec Burks makes sense. But another rookie wing? I don't see that happening. We could acquire a more experienced wing, but it would surprise me adding two in this draft.

Especially two wings that really, at this point in their careers, can't really shoot. (I call Harris a wing, but I guess he could play some face up 4)

Regardless, this mock draft is the best I've seen, whether it's the most right or not.

P.S. Marshon Brooks, glad we passed on him.

Justin Tyme
06-23-2011, 09:26 AM
P.S. Can we trade Lance and acquire Morris instead,


I want Darius Morris badly. He's the big PG the Pacers need who can play "D"! Unfortunately, I'm beginning to believe Bird's lovefest for Stephenson is not going to change until Stephenson lays another PR nightmare on the Pacers. Thus no Darius Miles. I read somewhere yesterday Darius' stock was really moving up the draft board.

As for Price being traded to move up, I have no problem with that and feel it's probably best if Bird is so adamant about Stephenson playing PG. I can't see where he'd be any worse than Price was last year.

Pacersalltheway10
06-23-2011, 09:26 AM
Jerad Dudley was nicknamed "Teddy" as a child because he was overweight.

Justin Tyme
06-23-2011, 09:30 AM
I don't have a clear cut favorite pick this year like I did for PG last year, but Burks is one a the ones I have an interest in. His choice would be fine with me.

As far trading Rush in this draft, it couldn't happen quick enough for me!

Ozwalt72
06-23-2011, 09:34 AM
As far trading Rush in this draft, it couldn't happen quick enough for me!

Quicker it happens, the better a draft pick we get! :dance:

Justin Tyme
06-23-2011, 09:35 AM
:yay:

Oh, what I would give to see Shade's head explode...:chin:


I was so afraid Bird was going to draft him. Thank you LORD for small favors that Bird didn't.

Really?
06-23-2011, 09:35 AM
I want Darius Morris badly. He's the big PG the Pacers need who can play "D"! Unfortunately, I'm beginning to believe Bird's lovefest for Stephenson is not going to change until Stephenson lays another PR nightmare on the Pacers. Thus no Darius Miles. I read somewhere yesterday Darius' stock was really moving up the draft board.

As for Price being traded to move up, I have no problem with that and feel it's probably best if Bird is so adamant about Stephenson playing PG. I can't see where he'd be any worse than Price was last year.

Yeah this bird thing with Lance is weird... but every GM thinks they can get the top potential out of every player they draft... I think Lance is Birds big project...

I hope Lance is really working on NBA pg skills over the summer because I have a feeling he will really have to use a lot of them next year... as said before I think that this love affair with Lance will cause Bird not to draft another PG aka Jimmer....

Justin Tyme
06-23-2011, 09:37 AM
well Lance is "the best player on the team" :laugh: I wouldnt be mad but we would need to add a veteran in free agency to play 3rd string so when Lance struggles we have a guy to plug in. Maybe Ramon Sessions via trade?


I like Sessions, so I like your thinking.

Gamble1
06-23-2011, 09:38 AM
I said earlier this year that Alec Burks is the one guy I thought made sense to trade up for because he wouldn't cost too much to get IMO. That being said I think he cost more than AJ and the 15th.

The Suns IMO don't trade down if Jimmers off the board. They take the BPA and they have a lot of needs outside of pg. They still have Brooks backing up Nash and they have holes at multiple positions.

Sparhawk
06-23-2011, 09:39 AM
Quicker it happens, the better a draft pick we get! :dance:

Amen, my brothers! (and sisters too)

BillS
06-23-2011, 09:39 AM
Thanks T-Bird. I have one complaint though. I went to look for your Alex Burks profile so I could read it again and had a hard time finding it. It's not under your name, but under RoboHicks. And Robo makes a lot of posts.

Here it is for any others who want to read it. http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=64636

Don't forget those RoboHicks posts are from the PD Front Page http://www.pacersdigest.com/wordpress/ where you can look at the categories for the Thunderdome (tbird) or Odd Thoughts (Peck) or others.

The Sleeze
06-23-2011, 09:40 AM
Is it just me, or is Klay Thompson not in your mock? I see him 10th on your big board, but I don't see him going in your predictions.

Yeah, he left off KLAY THOMPSON. Klay is expected to go in the top ten. If you put him into the mock then that changes everything after that.

Ozwalt72
06-23-2011, 09:41 AM
I just wanted to mention...I think Dahntay is just as likely to be traded as Rush is. Get more back from Rush because he's young, hits the three and defends. But I'm sure there could be a taker for Dahntay (maybe for a late first)

Kraut N Beer
06-23-2011, 09:54 AM
It's so hard to predict the draft, let alone possible trades. I love the analysis here and do think Burks will be a good NBA player.

However, I think the Suns wouldn't trade that pick if Burks and/or Klay Thompson are there. They need a SG worse than the Pacers. They are buying out Vince Carter and have Jared Dudley behind him.

Sparhawk
06-23-2011, 10:03 AM
If we do grab a shooting guard, we need someone that can actually dribble. Klay is just going to be like Danny running off screens, catch and shooting.

Alec is my first choice, followed by Brooks.

If Biyombo is available, I'd hope he'd be our first choice.

Lou Bega
06-23-2011, 10:19 AM
My Pacers Mock Draft

15. Jimmy Butler

42. Best available big

Thompkins, Benson, or Leur for spacing


Pacers make zero trades.

Sparhawk
06-23-2011, 10:22 AM
My Pacers Mock Draft

15. Jimmy Butler

42. Best available big

Thompkins, Benson, or Leur for spacing


Pacers make zero trades.

If only there was a dislike button.

Really?
06-23-2011, 10:23 AM
My Pacers Mock Draft

15. Jimmy Butler

42. Best available big

Thompkins, Benson, or Leur for spacing


Pacers make zero trades.

Why not just trade back if you want Butler? Might even be able to get him early in the 2nd...

Lou Bega
06-23-2011, 10:52 AM
I am not drafting. Larry Bird's decision.

He wants the best bench in the league.

Butler is four year player 6'7 - 6'8. Can defend multiple positions 2/3 & doesnt need the ball to be effective.

I am on board with the posters that think Roy/PG are going to have a huge roll in our offense next season. I think the Pacers try to trade D Jones @ deadline or package him w/ Posey when the CBA is figured out.

I don't see many teams w/ attractive assets wanting to move up in this draft. I hope a player A Burks can drop to the Pacers but I don't see Jimmer, Singleton, or Brooks on the board when the Pacers pick.

Larry is a wild card and this is a wild prediction but you have to think outside the box when dealing w/ the Hick from French Lick.

Shade
06-23-2011, 11:01 AM
I hope you're wrong, tbird. For some reason Burks just has a "Brandon Rush" vibe to him. Similar kind of player.

Really?
06-23-2011, 11:03 AM
I am not drafting. Larry Bird's decision.

He wants the best bench in the league.

Butler is four year player 6'7 - 6'8. Can defend multiple positions 2/3 & doesnt need the ball to be effective.

I am on board with the posters that think Roy/PG are going to have a huge roll in our offense next season. I think the Pacers try to trade D Jones @ deadline or package him w/ Posey when the CBA is figured out.

I don't see many teams w/ attractive assets wanting to move up in this draft. I hope a player A Burks can drop to the Pacers but I don't see Jimmer, Singleton, or Brooks on the board when the Pacers pick.

Larry is a wild card and this is a wild prediction but you have to think outside the box when dealing w/ the Hick from French Lick.

Yeah I think the best bench is a 2nd priority, you want to pick someone wou you feel can be a starter first.... I see some of your points but I think if all of those guys are gone by that time I would rather grab Jordan Hamilton before him or possibly someone who slid when those guys get drafted before our pick.

But there has been so much trade talk that I think we could find someone to trade the pick with to get back into the late 20's

Really?
06-23-2011, 11:05 AM
I hope you're wrong, tbird. For some reason Burks just has a "Brandon Rush" vibe to him. Similar kind of player.

Similar in which way?

Gamble1
06-23-2011, 11:06 AM
I hope you're wrong, tbird. For some reason Burks just has a "Brandon Rush" vibe to him. Similar kind of player.
What vibe is that? Afraid to score or assert himself in the offense. I really don't see that as Burks problem. Burks to me projects more to be like a former Pacer Quis than Rush. Actually I think he will be better than Quis in the end.

The Sleeze
06-23-2011, 11:07 AM
I hope you're wrong, tbird. For some reason Burks just has a "Brandon Rush" vibe to him. Similar kind of player.

I don't see that, Burks is a "rim-finisher", Brandon is a "joint-finisher"

owl
06-23-2011, 11:09 AM
I think Darius Morris needs to be the later second round pick. He has point guard skills in a 6'4" frame. I am fairly sure we are going to draft a wing player so Burks or Brooks is the most likely case. Good job TBird. I just am not comfortable with AJ and especially Lance despite what Bird says. I think that is Bird trying to encourage Lance.

The Sleeze
06-23-2011, 11:11 AM
I think Darius Morris needs to be the later second round pick. He has point guard skills in a 6'4" frame. I am fairly sure we are going to draft a wing player so Burks or Brooks is the most likely case. Good job TBird. I just am not comfortable with AJ and especially Lance despite what Bird says. I think that is Bird trying to encourage Lance.

I would love to have Darius, but we would have to trade up to get him because there is no way he makes it 42. Some drafts have him going first round.

Lou Bega
06-23-2011, 11:14 AM
Jordan Hamilton has star potential & I would draft him over Butler.

Jordan Hamilton could also be the next George Mc Cloud or Malik Sealy.


What team do you see willing to move up? (Thunder/MINN)

I would love to trade w/ the Thunder and pick up Eric Maynor & #24 for #15 and a filler but the odds of that happening are slim to none. I also have talked of Minn moving up giving the Pacers Ellington/Hayward & #20 for the #15. But that move doesnt make the Pacers any better.

Really?
06-23-2011, 11:28 AM
Jordan Hamilton has star potential & I would draft him over Butler.

Jordan Hamilton could also be the next George Mc Cloud or Malik Sealy.


What team do you see willing to move up? (Thunder/MINN)

I would love to trade w/ the Thunder and pick up Eric Maynor & #24 for #15 and a filler but the odds of that happening are slim to none. I also have talked of Minn moving up giving the Pacers Ellington/Hayward & #20 for the #15. But that move doesnt make the Pacers any better.

I think all will for the right deal... that is what the GM does... time for Larry to go fishing...

I just hope if we make a trade then we end up with a first in next years draft... even if it isn't a lottery pick, we could combine it with our pick for next year and move up in the draft and get a stud..

Shade
06-23-2011, 11:28 AM
From what I've seen of Burks he just seems to play with a similar style to Rush.

Of course, I guess it wouldn't be too bad if we got a Brandon Rush without the assertiveness issues.


What vibe is that? Afraid to score or assert himself in the offense. I really don't see that as Burks problem. Burks to me projects more to be like a former Pacer Quis than Rush. Actually I think he will be better than Quis in the end.

Gamble1
06-23-2011, 11:39 AM
From what I've seen of Burks he just seems to play with a similar style to Rush.

Of course, I guess it wouldn't be too bad if we got a Brandon Rush without the assertiveness issues.
The real big difference to me is that Burks can handle the ball much better than Rush and get to the rim.

To me what they have in common is that both of them can hit glass really hard as sg's which is not the most important skill for a sg but its nice to have those type of second chance points.

Gamble1
06-23-2011, 11:44 AM
Larry is a wild card and this is a wild prediction but you have to think outside the box when dealing w/ the Hick from French Lick.
I am not trying to pick on you but how is Larry a wild card?

Most of his picks are pretty obvious picks IMO.

Tyler, Rush, Hibbert, even PG was slotted to go in the teens last year.

I think there is zero chance he goes after Bulter.

Lou Bega
06-23-2011, 11:56 AM
I am not trying to pick on you but how is Larry a wild card?

Most of his picks are pretty obvious picks IMO.

Tyler, Rush, Hibbert, even PG was slotted to go in the teens last year.

I think there is zero chance he goes after Bulter.

Larry, is an outlaw. He does what he wants. I think this talk of Brooks/Jimmer are a smoke screen. He has a player on his radar and my guess is Butler.

Really?
06-23-2011, 12:19 PM
Larry, is an outlaw. He does what he wants. I think this talk of Brooks/Jimmer are a smoke screen. He has a player on his radar and my guess is Butler.

When drafting high you mostly go for potential, Butler is like a tier 5, tier 6 type player...

I think everyone in america would be surprised if that happened, and people would call for Larry's head

Lou Bega
06-23-2011, 12:43 PM
What is the knock on Jimmy Butler? What facet of his game is not NBA worthy?

I just see a lot of role players in this class & he may be the best of the crop. Gary Neal was more productive for the Spurs last year than both D'shawn Bulter & James Anderson.

Just because a guy is 6 tier on an expert mock doesnt mean crap to Larry.

Justin Tyme
06-23-2011, 12:59 PM
I think Darius Morris needs to be the later second round pick. He has point guard skills in a 6'4" frame. I am fairly sure we are going to draft a wing player so Burks or Brooks is the most likely case. Good job TBird. I just am not comfortable with AJ and especially Lance despite what Bird says. I think that is Bird trying to encourage Lance.


After reading your post over numerous times, I'm surmising you are saying he needs to be the later 2nd 1st round pick. At 1st I thought you were referring to getting him in the 2nd round. I really feel he's going to be a 1st round pick at around 22-30. If he goes 2nd round, it will be 31-36.

AND YES, I really would LOVE to see him in a Pacers uni.

Really?
06-23-2011, 01:00 PM
What is the knock on Jimmy Butler? What facet of his game is not NBA worthy?

I just see a lot of role players in this class & he may be the best of the crop. Gary Neal was more productive for the Spurs last year than both D'shawn Bulter & James Anderson.

Just because a guy is 6 tier on an expert mock doesnt mean crap to Larry.

No I am meaning on the Pacers tier system... not a whole lot against Butler, but I just think there are other players that are better and have higher potential... and if you want to get him just trade back.

As far as Gary Neal there are always a few that slip past the ideas of teams but most don't amount to much....

The Future
06-23-2011, 01:08 PM
I heard Burks has the potential to become the next BRANDON ROY, the healthy version.


Hopefully, the Pacers get him then...

Shade
06-23-2011, 02:13 PM
The real big difference to me is that Burks can handle the ball much better than Rush and get to the rim.

To me what they have in common is that both of them can hit glass really hard as sg's which is not the most important skill for a sg but its nice to have those type of second chance points.

That's true, but I don't know that he's better enough than Rush in the other aspects of his game to make me comfortable with him. And Rush is a better defender.

Gamble1
06-23-2011, 02:20 PM
That's true, but I don't know that he's better enough than Rush in the other aspects of his game to make me comfortable with him. And Rush is a better defender.
So let me ask you this. Which draft pick have you ever been comfortable with since Larry has taken over. Tyler? Rush? Hibbert? PG?

I don't think I would feel comfortable with any player at 15 in this weak draft.

pacer4ever
06-23-2011, 03:07 PM
What is the knock on Jimmy Butler? What facet of his game is not NBA worthy?

I just see a lot of role players in this class & he may be the best of the crop. Gary Neal was more productive for the Spurs last year than both D'shawn Bulter & James Anderson.

Just because a guy is 6 tier on an expert mock doesnt mean crap to Larry.

I watched Jimmy play this mourning he has NBA talent i hope we get to draft him in the second round. His problem i he is a tweeaner. But with that said he did guard Marshon Brooks effectively in the games i watched.

naptownmenace
06-23-2011, 03:09 PM
If the Pacers get Burks and Harris, I'll be overjoyed!

graphic-er
06-23-2011, 03:25 PM
I hope we draft a back up PG like Jimmer, or a Scoring shooting guard, whether that be Burks, or Brooks. Either way we gonna end up with a bench player who can fill it up.

The Sleeze
06-23-2011, 05:10 PM
Larry, is an outlaw. He does what he wants. I think this talk of Brooks/Jimmer are a smoke screen. He has a player on his radar and my guess is Butler.

Larry Bird is.....THE OUTLAW

http://oi55.tinypic.com/33krlm0.jpg