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Kamiyohk
06-21-2011, 11:48 AM
Did you guys see this before?
I think he is better than DC sometimes..

http://youtu.be/PtW_Hw3bWoE

tfarks
06-21-2011, 11:55 AM
I'm on Bird's side when it comes to Lance. Just hammer him into maturity and reap the benefits. His size and court vision give him a very high ceiling as a PG.

Ownagedood
06-21-2011, 11:55 AM
Did you guys see this before?
I think he is better than DC sometimes..

http://youtu.be/PtW_Hw3bWoE

Ya i think he is better than DC, his passing ability is ridiculous. He just needs to keep growing and maturing.

Sparhawk
06-21-2011, 12:00 PM
Lance is gonna get a chance to prove himself this upcoming season. I'm in the boat saying he's gonna be good.

SMosley21
06-21-2011, 12:04 PM
I'll admit that I'm not as big of a fan of Lance's as some people on here, but there is no denying that he has amazing court vision. Some of those passes were flat out ridiculous.

It still makes me cringe to see most of those highlights because I have to see the score at the bottom of the screen, and we pretty much got blown out in most of those games.

PR07
06-21-2011, 12:04 PM
Is this all just summer league highlights? :D

pacer4ever
06-21-2011, 12:05 PM
Lance is gonna get a chance to prove himself this upcoming season. I'm in the boat saying he's gonna be good.

I think he will be good. But best player on the team like Larry says no way. He should flourish if the Pacers let him guard SGs or SF's. The thing about Lance is his game is better suited for the NBA than his game was suited for college.

SMosley21
06-21-2011, 12:07 PM
I think he will be good. But best player on the team like Larry says no way. He should flourish if the Pacers let him guard SGs or SF's. The thing about Lance is his game is better suited for the NBA than his game was suited for college.


This is what I've been saying about Josh Selby.

pacer4ever
06-21-2011, 12:13 PM
This is what I've been saying about Josh Selby.

where Selby messed up is going to Kansas he should of went to a college where he could be the man. His whole year at Kansas was a disaster I have never seen a top recruits year go so poorly. He was suppose to be an All American and such but just a disaster from the injury to suspension not good. The problem i have with Selby is the problem I had with Avery Bradley he is to small to guard 2s not good enough at pg to play it. He is a project because you are gonna have to teach him and groom him to play pg. Much like what the Pacers are doing with Lance trying to teach him pg. But Lance could be a SG they are just choosing to gamble with him at pg.

Taterhead
06-21-2011, 01:33 PM
where Selby messed up is going to Kansas he should of went to a college where he could be the man. His whole year at Kansas was a disaster I have never seen a top recruits year go so poorly. He was suppose to be an All American and such but just a disaster from the injury to suspension not good. The problem i have with Selby is the problem I had with Avery Bradley he is to small to guard 2s not good enough at pg to play it. He is a project because you are gonna have to teach him and groom him to play pg. Much like what the Pacers are doing with Lance trying to teach him pg. But Lance could be a SG they are just choosing to gamble with him at pg.

Did you see those passes he was making? If those aren't on par with any PG in the league right now, they are pretty darn close. Those videos were made on very limited playing time last year and against quality opponents as well. Lance is a PG, has been since HS. He was played out of position at Cincy. Josh Selby is trying to develop what Lance already has. The Pacers have brought Lance along slowly for other reasons.

I have felt all along that this up coming year, the Pacers will not be able to keep Lance off the court.

MTM
06-21-2011, 01:49 PM
Can I play devil's advocate and point out that almost all of these plays were made during "garbage" time against 2nd tier players who just wanted to get the game over with? There were some meaningful plays in there, but not many. None were made when the game was in a pressure situation, at the end of a close game, or against consistently top players. He also went almost exclusively with his right hand. It was like watching Gilbert Arenas.

I am not suggesting that there is not a lot of talent there - certainly there is. But as we saw in the playoffs, the biggest difference in the way good players play in meaningful games is not just talent level, but what a player has between the ears, the ability to contain/funnel emotions, and how the player fits into the entire team. That's where I think Lance has failed miserably so far.

Trophy
06-21-2011, 01:54 PM
I'm not worried about him on the court. He can definitely play the game.

He deserves to get into the rotation next season and we'll see how he does on a consistent basis.

When he first played against the Suns, I was impressed with his combo guard ability and he came in right away and played both positions well.

Trader Joe
06-21-2011, 01:56 PM
I really like the play he makes where he's at the shooting guard position and he feeds Darren as he cuts to the hoop :whistle:

Dr. Awesome
06-21-2011, 02:12 PM
I really like the play he makes where he's at the shooting guard position and he feeds Darren as he cuts to the hoop :whistle:

...makes you wonder if the point guard Darren Collison can/would make that pass.

righteouscool
06-21-2011, 02:39 PM
Some of those passes are ridiculous.

I Love P
06-21-2011, 02:46 PM
Lance is nasty. #playlance

luis3ep
06-21-2011, 03:02 PM
I'm probably the biggest Lance fan here on PD and i don't care what anyone says about him. I think LARRY FREAKING BIRD would know talent when he sees it and i completely agree with him when he said Lance is the best player on the team. He has that "it" factor when playing and it comes naturally to him, and isn't forced upon him to be "the man" of any team kind of like it was on Granger... hell, theres still alot of PACERS fans on here that don't want him on the team period. Anyone who knows basketball would see that he has great vision, body control/balance, strength, aggressiveness and a pure stroke. His off the field issues have been greatly documented and i am fully aware that he's immature and all that other stuff... and i'm also aware that Larry has made it a high priority that Lance is under control and doesn't do anything stupid. I don't think Larry Bird would constantly remind people, and more importantly every media session that Lance is his boy when in fact he was some scrub or overrated/overhyped player (Rolle).

Plus, Lance lives with his parents and i'm sure Bird has warned/talked to his folks about whats at stake here. They seem like very nice people so i don't think they'll allow Lance to * up his whole career over childish stuff.

docpaul
06-21-2011, 03:12 PM
Damn, I miss watching the team. :(

itzryan07
06-21-2011, 03:28 PM
wow, its crazy. it looks like he is out of control but thats just the way he moves. He has an amazing passer and to me looks like really good at using the pick and roll. We will see this season if he can man up and take whats his

I Love P
06-21-2011, 03:33 PM
I almost cried watching this.

Pacersalltheway10
06-21-2011, 03:36 PM
I think in 5 years, the Pacers will become the clear winners of the 2010 draft class.

sportfireman
06-21-2011, 04:09 PM
Can I play devil's advocate and point out that almost all of these plays were made during "garbage" time against 2nd tier players who just wanted to get the game over with? There were some meaningful plays in there, but not many. None were made when the game was in a pressure situation, at the end of a close game, or against consistently top players. He also went almost exclusively with his right hand. It was like watching Gilbert Arenas.

I am not suggesting that there is not a lot of talent there - certainly there is. But as we saw in the playoffs, the biggest difference in the way good players play in meaningful games is not just talent level, but what a player has between the ears, the ability to contain/funnel emotions, and how the player fits into the entire team. That's where I think Lance has failed miserably so far.

Actually there were 8 or 9 plays in 2:36 long video that were late in the 4th....the rest were earlier in the game.

naptownmenace
06-21-2011, 04:21 PM
Can I play devil's advocate and point out that almost all of these plays were made during "garbage" time against 2nd tier players who just wanted to get the game over with? There were some meaningful plays in there, but not many. None were made when the game was in a pressure situation, at the end of a close game, or against consistently top players. He also went almost exclusively with his right hand. It was like watching Gilbert Arenas.

I am not suggesting that there is not a lot of talent there - certainly there is. But as we saw in the playoffs, the biggest difference in the way good players play in meaningful games is not just talent level, but what a player has between the ears, the ability to contain/funnel emotions, and how the player fits into the entire team. That's where I think Lance has failed miserably so far.

I also noticed the the Pacers lost almost each of those games where he played major minutes.

itzryan07
06-21-2011, 05:25 PM
Aj was the backup over Lance? Man we coulda been so much better

Pingu
06-21-2011, 05:58 PM
Not to rain on the parade, but this is only a highlight video. The guy shot 33% from the field, 0% from 3, and averaged 1.8 assists/game versus 1.33 TOs/game.

Yes, he's shown flashes in the admittedly very small amount of playing time he was given, but this 2:35 minutes long video basically contains all of the good plays he made this past season.

So while he has looked very promising at times, he's just not all that good yet. He's certainly not any better than AJ Price, Brandon Rush or, of course, DC.

ECKrueger
06-21-2011, 06:08 PM
Man that was cool to watch. I don't think it is completely ridiculous to think he could be a PG. Combo guard at the very least.

Please, please mature Lance, you could be so good!

pacer4ever
06-21-2011, 06:14 PM
I'm probably the biggest Lance fan here on PD and i don't care what anyone says about him. I think LARRY FREAKING BIRD would know talent when he sees it and i completely agree with him when he said Lance is the best player on the team. He has that "it" factor when playing and it comes naturally to him, and isn't forced upon him to be "the man" of any team kind of like it was on Granger... hell, theres still alot of PACERS fans on here that don't want him on the team period. Anyone who knows basketball would see that he has great vision, body control/balance, strength, aggressiveness and a pure stroke. His off the field issues have been greatly documented and i am fully aware that he's immature and all that other stuff... and i'm also aware that Larry has made it a high priority that Lance is under control and doesn't do anything stupid. I don't think Larry Bird would constantly remind people, and more importantly every media session that Lance is his boy when in fact he was some scrub or overrated/overhyped player (Rolle).

Plus, Lance lives with his parents and i'm sure Bird has warned/talked to his folks about whats at stake here. They seem like very nice people so i don't think they'll allow Lance to * up his whole career over childish stuff.

i disagree i am probably his biggest fan i mean i bought his jersey :zip:

(i did get a great deal though)

ilive4sports
06-21-2011, 06:36 PM
The pass to DC for the lay up was my favorite, that was some great vision.

I don't think anyone doubts his talent. They (myself included) just have doubts whether he will reach that talent because of some of the bonehead decisions he has made.

Frostwolf
06-21-2011, 07:04 PM
this is what a highlight video can do... there's probably a brian cardinal mix out there somewhere.

pacer4ever
06-21-2011, 07:05 PM
this is what a highlight video can do... there's probably a brian cardinal mix out there somewhere.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/H8M66GUKOYg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sPRm9sMdYvM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I agree mixs are pretty much worthless

ECKrueger
06-21-2011, 07:16 PM
While they might not be ideal for showing what a player can or can't do, they can show what a player is capable of, and won't show what he is not capable of obviously.

Basically what I am saying is that they show Lance can make some good passes and hit some jumpers. Maybe he cannot do that consistently, but he is capable.

Strummer
06-21-2011, 07:17 PM
Not to rain on the parade, but this is only a highlight video. The guy shot 33% from the field, 0% from 3, and averaged 1.8 assists/game versus 1.33 TOs/game.

Yes, he's shown flashes in the admittedly very small amount of playing time he was given, but this 2:35 minutes long video basically contains all of the good plays he made this past season.

So while he has looked very promising at times, he's just not all that good yet. He's certainly not any better than AJ Price, Brandon Rush or, of course, DC.

So with all the minutes AJ, Brandon and DC played, their combined highlight video should totally blow away Lances highlights. Don't you think? But I don't think it would. And that's the amazing thing. That's the point.

pacer4ever
06-21-2011, 07:18 PM
While they might not be ideal for showing what a player can or can't do, they can show what a player is capable of, and won't show what he is not capable of obviously.

Basically what I am saying is that they show Lance can make some good passes and hit some jumpers. Maybe he cannot do that consistently, but he is capable.

synergy says Lance is excellent from mid range but very poor from 3. He is very good in the PnR also according to synergy.

ECKrueger
06-21-2011, 07:25 PM
Which are things you can start to see in highlights. Sure highlights on show the good plays, but it just shows that the player can make good plays.

The Cardinal video did not show much but irritating defense and 3's. I would say those are his strengths.

2minutes twowa
06-21-2011, 07:28 PM
I don't know which is more ridiculous!! His passes or his handle!! He completely abused the Rockets player!!

tfarks
06-21-2011, 07:33 PM
Of course there are caveats to highlight videos. But they show Lance's ceiling is tremendously high. The Pacers would be foolish to not see it through.

Frostwolf
06-21-2011, 07:35 PM
So with all the minutes AJ, Brandon and DC played, their combined highlight video should totally blow away Lances highlights. Don't you think? But I don't think it would. And that's the amazing thing. That's the point.

this is quite possibly the worst logic i have ever seen.

a better player plays more minutes, therefore HIS HIGHLIGHT VIDEO should be better?

shane battier plays more minutes than paul george or lance stephenson, therefore his highlight video should be better! yay!

a highlight video shows ONLY the good parts of a player's game. that highlight video (which is EVERY BASKET he made last season, btw) shows he can make some nice passes and hit the midrange jumper. that's all. furthermore, there is no context for any of these videos, and you can't help but notice a significant number of them are in garbage time.

we already know lance has amazing potential. he's definitely not a better player than collison at this point in time.

MUpaceSIC
06-21-2011, 08:09 PM
I think Lance is more than capable of being the backup PG. And with his size, speed, and athleticism he could really dominate other backup PG's in the league IMO. He has all the skills to be a great NBA player, he just needs some attitude adjustments and to mature. He could potentially be special.

Strummer
06-21-2011, 08:11 PM
this is quite possibly the worst logic i have ever seen.

a better player plays more minutes, therefore HIS HIGHLIGHT VIDEO should be better?

shane battier plays more minutes than paul george or lance stephenson, therefore his highlight video should be better! yay!

a highlight video shows ONLY the good parts of a player's game. that highlight video (which is EVERY BASKET he made last season, btw) shows he can make some nice passes and hit the midrange jumper. that's all. furthermore, there is no context for any of these videos, and you can't help but notice a significant number of them are in garbage time.

we already know lance has amazing potential. he's definitely not a better player than collison at this point in time.

Seriously? You think I said that Lance is a better player than Collison at this point in time? Seriously? Seriously? I don't think I said anything of the sort. I'm not sure you're qualified to judge my logic.

And you said that EVERY BASKET that Lance made last year was a highlight! You don't find that interesting? What other player has highlight quality baskets EVERY time he scores? And yet you say the highlights only show nice passes and a midrange jumper.

There are a lot of players that can make nice passes and hit mid range jumpers. Why don't you pick one and make a highlight video that we can compare to Lances. Let's see how they compare. I'll think you'll be surprised. Maybe Lance does have a little more skill than you think.

NapTonius Monk
06-21-2011, 08:16 PM
Seriously? You think I said that Lance is a better player than Collison at this point in time? Seriously? Seriously? I don't think I said anything of the sort. I'm not sure you're qualified to judge my logic.

And you said that EVERY BASKET that Lance made last year was a highlight! You don't find that interesting? What other player has highlight quality baskets EVERY time he scores? And yet you say the highlights only show nice passes and a midrange jumper.

There are a lot of players that can make nice passes and hit mid range jumpers. Why don't you pick one and make a highlight video that we can compare to Lances. Let's see how they compare. I'll think you'll be surprised. Maybe Lance does have a little more skill than you think.
You change that mood sticker mister! ;)

Brad8888
06-21-2011, 08:27 PM
He is a bigger TJ Ford. Ford made some really good passes on occasion also. Even in this highlight film a couple of the plays that were his passes should not have been attempted, and against quality defenders would have been easy turnovers.

Nothing I saw there indicates point guard to me, but I am sure most disagree with me at this point. From the press conference today as well as what mb1313 and others have said about him due to watching him practice, Lance is apparently considered the future of the franchise as who Bird said is the best player the Pacers have.

If he is the best player the Pacers have, I cannot wait for him to grow up and actually show it in a competitive game. The Pacers could use another combo guard, and only experience at the point would make Lance capable of the decision making and court vision required to perform at a true NBA level. He has a very long road ahead of him, and hopefully he is worth the wait. But, he is the youngest guy on the roster, and hopefully will continue to be after the draft.

righteouscool
06-21-2011, 08:39 PM
He is a bigger TJ Ford. Ford made some really good passes on occasion also. Even in this highlight film a couple of the plays that were his passes should not have been attempted, and against quality defenders would have been easy turnovers.

Nothing I saw there indicates point guard to me, but I am sure most disagree with me at this point. From the press conference today as well as what mb1313 and others have said about him due to watching him practice, Lance is apparently considered the future of the franchise as who Bird said is the best player the Pacers have.

If he is the best player the Pacers have, I cannot wait for him to grow up and actually show it in a competitive game. The Pacers could use another combo guard, and only experience at the point would make Lance capable of the decision making and court vision required to perform at a true NBA level. He has a very long road ahead of him, and hopefully he is worth the wait. But, he is the youngest guy on the roster, and hopefully will continue to be after the draft.

Ford doesn't have even close to that good of court vision.

Frostwolf
06-22-2011, 12:31 AM
Seriously? You think I said that Lance is a better player than Collison at this point in time? Seriously? Seriously? I don't think I said anything of the sort. I'm not sure you're qualified to judge my logic.

1. i never said you said that lance was a better player than dc. that statement was my own opinion, separate from my critique of your logic. hence it being at the very bottom of my post. don't jump to conclusions.


And you said that EVERY BASKET that Lance made last year was a highlight! You don't find that interesting? What other player has highlight quality baskets EVERY time he scores? And yet you say the highlights only show nice passes and a midrange jumper.

2a. i did not say that every one of his plays was a highlight. again, you're attributing something to me that i did not say. i said every one of his made plays was from this season was in this "highlight video." these plays were the highlights of lance's season (unfortunately). apart from the nice passes, very few of these plays were actually highlight worthy. his body of work this season is so small that if you only put "highlight quality" plays in, it'd be much shorter than it is now.


There are a lot of players that can make nice passes and hit mid range jumpers. Why don't you pick one and make a highlight video that we can compare to Lances. Let's see how they compare. I'll think you'll be surprised.

3. players who make midrange jumpers and make nice passes:
kobe bryant
chris paul
deron williams
derrick rose
tony parker
yada yada yada....

still want to compare this video to the myriad of real highlight mixes of these players? this point is moot...


Maybe Lance does have a little more skill than you think.

4. i agree that lance has a lot of skill and a lot of potential, again which i mentioned in my post. that is not the same as being a good overall basketball player at this present time. there is a reason he didn't get many significant minutes even under frank.

anyway, i'm just doing this because you completely misrepresented what i literally said in my post. ;) again, i'm hoping as much as you are that lance does turn out to be a great player for us in the future, but i will have very low expectations of him for a while. better not to be disappointed...

Taterhead
06-22-2011, 12:51 AM
Lance is 6' 4.5" barefoot, with a 6'10.5" wingspan and an 8'7" standing reach. Darren Collison is 6'0" 160 with a 6'3" wingspan and 8'0.5" standing reach. 7 inches of difference, plus 40-50 lbs if Lance is in ideal game shape at 200-210 lbs. For a broader comparison, Russel Westbrook is just over 6'2"187 lbs with a 6'7.75" wingspan and 8'4" standing reach. John Wall is just under 6'3" 195 with a monstrous 6'9.25" wingspan and 8'5.5" standing reach. Lance is probably the biggest legit PG in the league, if he sticks there long term.

Combine that with PG instincts and great ball handling ability and you have a potentially dominant presence someday. And I think people under rate his defensive potential. He is much better than people give him credit for. And he has great potential with that kind of size and length. He just has to figure out how to use it to his advantage.

pacer4ever
06-22-2011, 12:57 AM
Lance is 6' 4.5" barefoot, with a 6'10.5" wingspan and an 8'7" standing reach. Darren Collison is 6'0" 160 with a 6'3" wingspan and 8'0.5" standing reach. 7 inches of difference, plus 40-50 lbs if Lance is in ideal game shape at 200-210 lbs. For a broader comparison, Russel Westbrook is just over 6'2"187 lbs with a 6'7.75" wingspan and 8'4" standing reach. John Wall is just under 6'3" 195 with a monstrous 6'9.25" wingspan and 8'5.5" standing reach. Lance is probably the biggest legit PG in the league, if he sticks there long term.

Combine that with PG instincts and great ball handling ability and you have a potentially dominant presence someday. And I think people under rate his defensive potential. He is much better than people give him credit for. And he has great potential with that kind of size and length. He just has to figure out how to use it to his advantage.

Westbrook is not 6'2


wow man this Lance kid sounds like #1 pick material? wait he went in the 2nd round :hmm:

kidding a side you sound like his agent

EDIT i like Lance but like when sookie defends AJ it makes me not like him same thing is going on here. Over value players. No doubt he has potential but can we chill with all this dominant force talk?(until he actually does it in a real game!)

Frostwolf
06-22-2011, 01:26 AM
when sookie defends AJ it makes me not like him

sookie is a she (just so you know) :laugh:

pacer4ever
06-22-2011, 01:43 AM
sookie is a she (just so you know) :laugh:

i know she is. It makes me not like AJ same thing is happening here with Lance.

Frostwolf
06-22-2011, 02:27 AM
i know she is. It makes me not like AJ same thing is happening here with Lance.

sorry, attributed the pronoun the the wrong person :blush:

Taterhead
06-22-2011, 08:33 AM
Westbrook is not 6'2


wow man this Lance kid sounds like #1 pick material? wait he went in the 2nd round :hmm:

kidding a side you sound like his agent

EDIT i like Lance but like when sookie defends AJ it makes me not like him same thing is going on here. Over value players. No doubt he has potential but can we chill with all this dominant force talk?(until he actually does it in a real game!)

Actually he is. Here are his pre draft measurements......

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Russell-Westbrook-5062/

The thread is about his potential. If you don't like it read something else.

PacerHound
06-22-2011, 11:04 AM
Did you guys see this before?
I think he is better than DC sometimes..

http://youtu.be/PtW_Hw3bWoE

I have been complaining about our guards not being able to make the pass from the point guard position for months. After watching this video I have found my point guard. I just need patience now while he develops. Thanks for the post.

Strummer
06-22-2011, 12:42 PM
anyway, i'm just doing this because you completely misrepresented what i literally said in my post. ;)

I know how that feels. ;)

CooperManning
06-24-2011, 11:21 AM
edit: wrong thread

Triangle
06-24-2011, 12:40 PM
Lance + George Hill = Unstoppable