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View Full Version : Hibbert & #15 for #2? Wojo Rumour..



Willbo
06-21-2011, 02:23 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Au8F1Qszi6PZxxVlYpgEASW8vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_josh_smith_hawks_nba_draft_062011

Sounds like nothing more than good fodder for discussion... Interesting nonetheless that Hibbert's name comes up.

pacer4ever
06-21-2011, 02:28 AM
I could get on board with that as long as Bird is sure he can get a legitimate center to come her via free agency. Derrick is the type of dynamic power forward we really need. If i though Roy was mentally tough i would probably decline but unfortunately that's not the case.

Kraft
06-21-2011, 02:28 AM
Something you'd really have to do -- but like the story says, it won't fly in Minnesota.

Constellations
06-21-2011, 02:30 AM
:computer:

Young
06-21-2011, 02:35 AM
Derrick is the type of dynamic power forward we really need.

Didn't Williams say that he is a small forward and not a power forward? Of course this doesn't mean he can't or won't play power forward.

pacer4ever
06-21-2011, 02:38 AM
Didn't Williams say that he is a small forward and not a power forward? Of course this doesn't mean he can't or won't play power forward.

he says he is a SF but the guy is 6'9 250 he is a beast reminds me of Josh Smith but he can actually shoot. The guy is perfect for the new breed of dynamic PF's like Blake Griffin Josh Smith ect.

granger33
06-21-2011, 02:41 AM
I would do this trade. Makes us better in the long run imo. I wonder If Larry actually is speaking to teams about trading hibbert

Heisenberg
06-21-2011, 02:43 AM
I think it's fair, probably even more than fair for us. But for Derrick Williams, at the 4? I think the kid's good, but he's an athletic David West. He's not the kind of guy I completely change course for. Kanter? I doubt it.

I'm not trying to give up young core pieces to move up into the top tier of this draft, those guys just aren't good enough.

Peck
06-21-2011, 02:47 AM
I could get on board with that as long as Bird is sure he can get a legitimate center to come her via free agency. Derrick is the type of dynamic power forward we really need. If i though Roy was mentally tough i would probably decline but unfortunately that's not the case.

I'm not wanting to toss him in the trash & I'll be ok if he is the starter next year but yea, I'll admit that playoff series really put a sour taste in my mouth about Roy.

I just don't know if he will ever be able to overcome a physical athletic player like Noah.

CableKC
06-21-2011, 03:08 AM
I'd think that if Hibbert was ( in any way ) on the table....that many of you would be clamouring to flip him for Josh Smith since the Hawks would prefer a Center back while reducing Salary.

And my guess is that the TWolves would field better Centers then Hibbert if they truly wanted to move #2.

Will Galen
06-21-2011, 03:16 AM
Sounds lame to me when I ask myself who are center would be if we traded Roy.

d_c
06-21-2011, 03:17 AM
I just don't know if he will ever be able to overcome a physical athletic player like Noah.

Not just a physical athletic player, but a physical athletic player who wants to annoy you, talk trash to you and get in your head.

That's Noah and, generally speaking, most playoff teams are going to have one of these guys.

Peck
06-21-2011, 03:29 AM
Not just a physical athletic player, but a physical athletic player who wants to annoy you, talk trash to you and get in your head.

That's Noah and, generally speaking, most playoff teams are going to have one of these guys.

Yip & God love Roy but he just can't (at this time) handle those type of player & I'm not convinced he will ever be able to over a long series. A game or two during the regular season? Sure, but not a playoff series.

Kemo
06-21-2011, 03:35 AM
I'd be MAD AS HELL !!!!

pacer4ever
06-21-2011, 03:47 AM
I'd be MAD AS HELL !!!!

I would be the opposite :happydanc

Heisenberg
06-21-2011, 03:59 AM
I would be the opposite :happydanc
I'd be excited, and in a vacuum (Roy + 15 for 2) I think we come out ahead. I just don't think Williams is anything special enough to make me do this, it's not that I think Roy'll ever be an All Star or anything.

Midcoasted
06-21-2011, 04:00 AM
Yip & God love Roy but he just can't (at this time) handle those type of player & I'm not convinced he will ever be able to over a long series. A game or two during the regular season? Sure, but not a playoff series.

He had tuned his body to fit JOBs system. It stopped working about 15 or 20 games in and JOB all but gave up on Roy. Up until that point Hibbert looked like the most improved player. It was a lose, lose situation. I saw Roy make great strides under Vogel. It was too late thought and when we played Chicago Roy really did play great defense. All he needed on that end of the floor was to be a tad more physical. He struggled on the offensive end and that really hurt him because he wasn't able to back down Noah.

I think Roy will get the most improved award next year if he stays here and Vogel is the coach. If he puts up 18 and 8 he will get it, and that is feasible for him, but it would also be surprising because he is a legit center in a league where those don't exist anymore.

wintermute
06-21-2011, 04:11 AM
I'll bet this was inspired by the #2 for Gortat + #13 and #2 for Bogut + #10 deals being rumored about. This is along the same lines (well obviously Bogut has much more value if you can count on him being healthy), but I can see why Minny won't be interested in this one. Hibbert and Love looks to be a poor fit, worse than Bogut-Love or Gortat-Love anyway.

Merz
06-21-2011, 04:12 AM
I really like Roy and would be a little sad if he was traded. I also like winning. If more winning comes, with a trade like that, I would get over my no-Roy blues.

Justin Tyme
06-21-2011, 04:17 AM
I could get on board with that as long as Bird is sure he can get a legitimate center to come her via free agency. Derrick is the type of dynamic power forward we really need. If i though Roy was mentally tough i would probably decline but unfortunately that's not the case.



Doesn't Derrick Williams say he is SF and not a PF? If he feels he's a SF who can play some PF you already have that in Granger. 7'2" centers don't grow on trees where as SF/PF are common.

Not saying I wouldn't do it, but a SF/PF player isn't a real need for the Pacers. Trading Hibbert leaves the Pacers w/o a Center, so I don't see the advantage of this trade unless you are planning on trading Granger.

MrHale
06-21-2011, 04:20 AM
Give us rubio and darko please

Justin Tyme
06-21-2011, 04:27 AM
And my guess is that the TWolves would field better Centers then Hibbert if they truly wanted to move #2.


GORTAT & KAMAN to name a couple.

Heisenberg
06-21-2011, 05:05 AM
GORTAT & KAMAN to name a couple.
Kaman stinks. Outlandish as the Gortat "rumor" is at least he's a quick footed defensive post which is what Sota could really, really use. I know Kaman's been floated around the internet as a guy we should chase, I would be disgusted with acquiring him, he is not good. I've seen people on this very forum suggest Kaman + Hibbert starting could work. Much as I dislike an AlJeff + Hibs frontonline defensively it's light years ahead of Kaman and Roy. That's a laughable frontcourt.

Kaman is not good. Do not want.

Kamiyohk
06-21-2011, 05:39 AM
So Hibbert for D Williams
Granger for AL Jefferson huh?

What is your plan Larry

CooperManning
06-21-2011, 05:46 AM
I think Minny could get more for #2 than Roy + #15. If it's on the table, you do it and figure out the rest later. Would hate to see Roy go, but D-Will is too attractive of a piece to pass up. If you could somehow sneak Pekovic into the trade it'd be a no brainer.

I Love P
06-21-2011, 05:53 AM
Id do this trade. Get the number 2 pick Larry. Dwill is going to be special. Why can't we offer Danny for the 2?

Kamiyohk
06-21-2011, 06:06 AM
Id do this trade. Get the number 2 pick Larry. Dwill is going to be special. Why can't we offer Danny for the 2?

Because Larry want AL Jefferson play Center..

Constellations
06-21-2011, 06:25 AM
http://i55.tinypic.com/2rwkuon.jpg I think the Pacers just need a little more cowbell.

vnzla81
06-21-2011, 06:39 AM
I would love to get Dwill, he is Blake Griffin like, the guy is going to be a beast in the NBA, I like Hibbert but at this point like somebody already said, I like winning more and to me Roy is too weak mentally to be our center.

I wonder who the Pacers would try to get as center if this happens?

bphil
06-21-2011, 07:09 AM
For the record, any time the words Pacers, Minnesota, and trade are mentioned in the same sentence, you can ignore it.

Shade
06-21-2011, 07:16 AM
:khan:

Hmm...interesting trade. Probably in our favor.

I like Roy. With that said, yeah, I'd probably have to do this. I'd be even more inclined if we could somehow bump up to #1. Maybe a deal with the Cavs for the #1 and Varejao?

Shade
06-21-2011, 07:17 AM
It does make me wonder if Larry keeps floating these rumors just to **** off Kahn... :laugh:


For the record, any time the words Pacers, Minnesota, and trade are mentioned in the same sentence, you can ignore it.

D-BONE
06-21-2011, 07:21 AM
Starting C and #15 in a weak draft? No replacement C on the roster? Don't know, but at least it would spice things up.

Overall reaction: Yawn.

SMosley21
06-21-2011, 08:12 AM
If we could turn Roy Hibbert into Derrick Williams, I would do backflips out of absolute joy.

ensergio
06-21-2011, 08:20 AM
Id do this trade. Get the number 2 pick Larry. Dwill is going to be special. Why can't we offer Danny for the 2?

:hmm:

Frostwolf
06-21-2011, 08:21 AM
as much as i would hate to part with roy this early in his career, i would have to think very hard about rejecting this deal. we definitely would need a center, though.

pwee31
06-21-2011, 08:22 AM
I'll bet this was inspired by the #2 for Gortat + #13 and #2 for Bogut + #10 deals being rumored about. This is along the same lines (well obviously Bogut has much more value if you can count on him being healthy), but I can see why Minny won't be interested in this one. Hibbert and Love looks to be a poor fit, worse than Bogut-Love or Gortat-Love anyway.

I agree. Gortat, Bogut, McGee, and Hibbert w/ a pick, have all now been rumored to Minnesota for the #2.

Granger has been rumored with the #2 as well.

:whoknows:

rel
06-21-2011, 08:24 AM
hmmmm, reports that stanko coming to the states and then a hibby trade rumor!? larry setting the stage for stanko to be the star & DOMINATE!...jk

but rlly...i'd do it. Dwill looks pretty special...But is Kyrie Irving already a lock for number 1? I like Dwill more the Irving and i'd be more hesitant if the cavs took dwill and kyrie was left for 2

BPump33
06-21-2011, 08:29 AM
I like DWill a lot (not SMosely a lot), but I'm not ready to give up on a 7'2" guy with an insane work ethic that actually wants to be here. Anyone remember how long it took Rik to "get it?" I still think big Roy is going to be a special player. If I'm wrong I'll admit it, but Roy still has plenty of potential.

Passion. Pride. Patience.

duke dynamite
06-21-2011, 08:34 AM
Man, I hate this time of year. All of these writers are creating rumors to help the NBA peak interest in the draft. Unless you are a die hard of a team, how many people stick around to watch the entire draft? It's plastered all over ESPN a million times the next day. All these rumors do is create drama leading up to the draft because fans love trades, etc.

That and how many times do rumors involving the Pacers ever turn into actual facts? Not often, especially from Woj.

CooperManning
06-21-2011, 08:47 AM
Starting C and #15 in a weak draft? No replacement C on the roster? Don't know, but at least it would spice things up.

Overall reaction: Yawn.

The trade would be for Derrick Williams, so quality of the rest of the draft is a non-factor.

xIndyFan
06-21-2011, 08:47 AM
he says he is a SF but the guy is 6'9 250 he is a beast reminds me of Josh Smith but he can actually shoot. The guy is perfect for the new breed of dynamic PF's like Blake Griffin Josh Smith ect.

just remember, he is not 6-9. he is the same size as danny granger. or an inch shorter than tyler hansbrough. [6-7 in socks]. he may be athletic, but he is still small. josh is athletic, but it didn't make up for his lack of size. pacers have enough undersized energetic PFs. what they need now is a space eating, knuckles dragging on the ground, grown man type PF.

williams is a big SF at best. pacers have one of those already.

otherwise he is a tweener. and that makes him an undersized PF.

no thanx, not for roy.

Justin Tyme
06-21-2011, 09:19 AM
Kaman stinks. Outlandish as the Gortat "rumor" is at least he's a quick footed defensive post which is what Sota could really, really use. I know Kaman's been floated around the internet as a guy we should chase, I would be disgusted with acquiring him, he is not good. I've seen people on this very forum suggest Kaman + Hibbert starting could work. Much as I dislike an AlJeff + Hibs frontonline defensively it's light years ahead of Kaman and Roy. That's a laughable frontcourt.

Kaman is not good. Do not want.


Gortat and Kaman is a response to what other centers were available that was better than Hibbert. It has nothing to do with what you want, but what Minnie wants... unless you are a T-Wolves fan.

Your feelings about Kaman is duly noted, but definately not agreed with by me. There is a reason teams are interested in acquiring him , and it's not b/c he stinks.

PR07
06-21-2011, 09:26 AM
I'd do it if the Pacers think they can sign Marc Gasol, T. Chandler, or Nene. Otherwise, who's going to fill the void at center?

I think Hibbert will be a good center in this league (he already is), but I just see consistency always being an issue with him with his confidence and lack of strength/athleticism.

Derrick Williams has the upside to be a star, and I think worst case scenario, he ends up like Shawn Marion.

Unclebuck
06-21-2011, 09:26 AM
Man, I hate this time of year. All of these writers are creating rumors to help the NBA peak interest in the draft. Unless you are a die hard of a team, how many people stick around to watch the entire draft? It's plastered all over ESPN a million times the next day. All these rumors do is create drama leading up to the draft because fans love trades, etc.

That and how many times do rumors involving the Pacers ever turn into actual facts? Not often, especially from Woj.


The rumors get frustrating, but I still enjoy hearing them, because it give me an idea of what some teams are thinking.

I don't agree that writers are creating rumors. (I mean Wojo works for Yahoo sports, why would he want to create interest/ratings for ESPN) I think the legitimate writers report on what teams are talking about, that often times has nothing to do with what will actualkly take place.

So in this rumor and in general I think either the teams have discussed it, or one of the two teams is leaking it for some purpose. (I don't think the writers are creating this stuff out of thin air)

Justin Tyme
06-21-2011, 09:36 AM
Dwill is going to be special.


AND you know this how? The same was said about last years #2, and just how has that panned out? You are willing to GIVE Granger away for a bird in the bush when you have Granger in hand? That's how GM's ruin teams and lose their jobs. Not to mention it isn't feasible b/c Minnie can't absorb Granger's salary, so trading Granger for the #2 is a moot subject.

Taterhead
06-21-2011, 09:39 AM
Williams is a SF. It only makes sense to trade for him if Granger is involved.

Williams would be a horrible defensive PF.

bphil
06-21-2011, 09:43 AM
Gortat and Kaman is a response to what other centers were available that was better than Hibbert. It has nothing to do with what you want, but what Minnie wants... unless you are a T-Wolves fan.

Your feelings about Kaman is duly noted, but definately not agreed with by me. There is a reason teams are interested in acquiring him , and it's not b/c he stinks.

No, it's because he has a fat expiring contract.

vnzla81
06-21-2011, 09:45 AM
No, it's because he has a fat expiring contract.

Yep, that is the reason why teams are going hard after Posey..............

ChristianDudley
06-21-2011, 09:47 AM
I honestly truly believe that we'd be better off keeping Roy and let Derrick Williams go off to Minnesota or wherever else. If we traded Roy, what the heck would we do for a center??? And what would happen to Area 55 lol???

Trader Joe
06-21-2011, 09:47 AM
Love Roy, but at this point we can't nitpick over talent, and this would definitely be a talent upgrade IMO. You have to believe there are some legs here with the Bogut rumors as well.

ksuttonjr76
06-21-2011, 09:47 AM
Meh..I rather keep Roy Hibbert. People may say that he's inconsistent, but he has been consistent at improving his game every year. I just hope that he puts the weight back on.

troyc11a
06-21-2011, 09:47 AM
Sounds lame to me when I ask myself who are center would be if we traded Roy.

A Center is generally more important than a PF. If we make this trade it is back to the lottery for sure unless Bird can get us a legite 7'0 Center via FA.
Yea, and these guys are a dime a dozen right?

Trader Joe
06-21-2011, 09:48 AM
Yep, that is the reason why teams are going hard after Posey..............

Posey will have more value, especially if we get a hard cap.

graphic-er
06-21-2011, 09:52 AM
I'd rather draft Kanter with the #2. He will be a beast. DWill looks to be good, but honestly before the tournament, I never heard of him.

troyc11a
06-21-2011, 09:52 AM
Williams is a SF. It only makes sense to trade for him if Granger is involved.

Williams would be a horrible defensive PF.

I agree with that but I am getting sick and tired of hearing Granger's name mentioned on here. I have yet to hear of one possible trade rumor with his name that would improve this team (except that original Minnie trade that brought Beasley, Rubio, and a pick).

BTW- Isnt Williams the kid who did nothing in college for 3 years and then blew up during the tournament? I dont follow Arizona, but if thats the case I am not sure I would trade much for a possible 1 hit wonder.

microwave_oven
06-21-2011, 09:54 AM
Greg Oden?

sheppie33
06-21-2011, 09:59 AM
I agree with that but I am getting sick and tired of hearing Granger's name mentioned on here. I have yet to hear of one possible trade rumor with his name that would improve this team (except that original Minnie trade that brought Beasley, Rubio, and a pick).

BTW- Isnt Williams the kid who did nothing in college for 3 years and then blew up during the tournament? I dont follow Arizona, but if thats the case I am not sure I would trade much for a possible 1 hit wonder.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/derrick-williams

He played two years, and had solid numbers.

PacerPenguins
06-21-2011, 10:01 AM
Greg Oden?

nene?

SMosley21
06-21-2011, 10:02 AM
I like DWill a lot (not SMosely a lot), but I'm not ready to give up on a 7'2" guy with an insane work ethic that actually wants to be here. Anyone remember how long it took Rik to "get it?" I still think big Roy is going to be a special player. If I'm wrong I'll admit it, but Roy still has plenty of potential.

Passion. Pride. Patience.

I can respect that. I'll admit I've got a huge bias towards players from the University of Arizona. The fact that DWill is flat out awesome as well is a huge factor in me being willing to let Roy go though. I think in 2-3 seasons, Cleveland will look back on this draft and realize they made a mistake by not taking Williams 1st. I do like Roy A LOT, but I like Williams' talent more. Not to mention he's also a very likable guy.

Dr. Awesome
06-21-2011, 10:03 AM
I really don't get all this hype about Williams. Would I like to have him? Sure. But I'm not trading a legit 7'2 player who has embraced the community the way Hibbert has. Even fans on other teams were saying he has top 5 value for a center in this league with age, salary, and injuries all being considered. You don't trade big guys with his skill level for tweeners who haven't proven anything. I'd trade Granger before Hibbert, and I certainly wouldn't include the #15 with Hibbert.

Kegboy
06-21-2011, 10:04 AM
I love Williams, and I think he'd fit this team very well. However, IMO we only do this trade if TPTB feel Roy is a lost cause. Personally I don't think he is. But, as has been pointed out, if they feel we can get a Chandler or Gasol, sure.

My point is, at the end of the day, we need a quality Center. I don't want to go back to the likes of Rasho.

Kegboy
06-21-2011, 10:10 AM
I'd rather draft Kanter with the #2. He will be a beast. DWill looks to be good, but honestly before the tournament, I never heard of him.

Watch more Turkish league than Pac10, huh?


BTW- Isnt Williams the kid who did nothing in college for 3 years and then blew up during the tournament? I dont follow Arizona, but if thats the case I am not sure I would trade much for a possible 1 hit wonder.

Most certainly not. He kicked complete and total *** in the regular season both years.

Really?
06-21-2011, 10:13 AM
I personally think that Roy has so much more value to this city as far as the Pacers are concerned than just his basketball game.

I will say that the only way to make this trade is if we could turn it into the Jazz 3 and 12 picks, that is the only thing that would even be close to making sense.

We are putting together a nice young team and even though he isn't the best he is a real big contributor to what we are trying to do here as well as what has helped make us "successful", plus it is so hard to find good Centers in this league.

but maybe we could turn the 3 & 12 into Jonas Val/Kanter and Singleton/Brooks then maybe this would work out for us.

SMosley21
06-21-2011, 10:14 AM
Something that I don't think many people are thinking about is the fact that Minnesota could just keep the pick (which I think they should) and draft Williams for themselves.

they would then have

Ricky Rubio (Spanish God)
Derrick Williams
Kevin Love

That's one HELL of a young trio to build your team around. Not to mention they still have Michael Beasley and last year's #4 pick Wesley Johnson, who really came on strong the 2nd half of last season.

Justin Tyme
06-21-2011, 10:24 AM
No, it's because he has a fat expiring contract.


Hum, that's interrsting. Who played starting Center after they came back from being injured? 2 guessses, and the 1st guess wasn't DeAndre Jordan. Kaman is a past Allstar, so maybe there is truly an interest in his playing ability, and not just his big fat expiring contract.

JB24
06-21-2011, 10:24 AM
What if we could get Pekovic (in exchange for some filler) out of the deal as well?

Really?
06-21-2011, 10:25 AM
Watch more Turkish league than Pac10, huh?

Most certainly not. He kicked complete and total *** in the regular season both years.

Lol crazy that people don't see as much of Arizona Basketball as they did in the past, I guess I just watch sports as well as sports center all year long.

Williams had the highest player efficiency in college basketball all season.

But was just thinking I remember a time when Arizona was in the national spot light all the time before their coach left, especially back in Jason Gardner days.

Justin Tyme
06-21-2011, 10:27 AM
Yep, that is the reason why teams are going hard after Posey..............


Same with Dun, Ford, and Foster this past season. ;)

MillerTime
06-21-2011, 10:27 AM
I think its good for both teams.

Hibbert would be a nice complement to Love.

I still dont know what the Pacers get with having all these swingmen. I dont see Derrick Williams being a PF in this league.

We're definitely going to have a huge hole at C. With Foster more than likely to leave to a competitor, and if Hibbert is traded, we're basically going to have to start McRoberts and Hansbrough

90'sNBARocked
06-21-2011, 10:27 AM
The Pacers are also heavily involved in numerous trade scenarios and could be active on draft night depending on how things pan out. They seem to have quite a bit of urgency to improve as much as possible in advance of next season, clearly looking to transition to win-now mode.

from HW

Justin Tyme
06-21-2011, 10:28 AM
A Center is generally more important than a PF. If we make this trade it is back to the lottery for sure unless Bird can get us a legite 7'0 Center via FA.
Yea, and these guys are a dime a dozen right?



Ah, something we can agree upon!

Trader Joe
06-21-2011, 10:29 AM
If we have yet another year of sitting with our thumbs up our butts on draft night, I am going to be pretty disappointed. Past couple years, I could live with it, but now I feel like we're to the point that it's time to **** or get off the pot.

90'sNBARocked
06-21-2011, 10:31 AM
Word is Fredette, who we originally pegged at the 15th best player in January, is now strongly in contention for the #7 pick with the Sacramento Kings and is said to be the target of the Phoenix Suns and the Indiana Pacers it they can find deals to move in front of Utah #12, which is said to be Jimmer's floor – the team he will not fall past.

Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=20190#ixzz1PvAL6Q4k

Really? trading to nab Jimmer? Is this a potential PR move?

Really really not feelin that

Pacerized
06-21-2011, 10:31 AM
I'd be o.k. moving Roy for the right player but I don't want another wing player trying to play power forward. If Williams see himself as a small forward I don't want him.
If we move Roy I'd hope we go after Kaman or Nene. If Kaman is healthy he's a big upgrade over Roy. Unless the Clippers want cap space I don't think we'd be able to get Kaman without giving up Granger or George though, so I'd rather target Nene.
I'd rather this rumour be false, it takes us out of the playoffs without other major moves.

Gamble1
06-21-2011, 10:34 AM
I think Minny could get more for #2 than Roy + #15. If it's on the table, you do it and figure out the rest later. Would hate to see Roy go, but D-Will is too attractive of a piece to pass up. If you could somehow sneak Pekovic into the trade it'd be a no brainer.
If you did this trade then you have to convince Dwill to play the 4 atleast 20 or more minutes per game.

Personally it wouldn't be that bad of a trade if you got a defensive minded center like a Dalembert on the cheap and brought over Stanko.

PR07
06-21-2011, 10:34 AM
Even if the Pacers, didn't land one of the Big 3 Centers on the Market: Marc Gasol, T. Chandler, or Nene. They could always pick up someone like Dalembert as a short-term stop-gap for a year or two or maybe even roll the dice on someone like DeAndre Jordan.

Sparhawk
06-21-2011, 10:36 AM
Do you think you can turn the #2 into Hickson and the Cavs 1st next year. Cavs should still suck, so the pick should be pretty high. Next year's draft is looking good.

However, if we do get D Williams to play the 3 (guess he could play the 4), then do you think we could trade Granger (maybe even Collison) to Golden State for Epke Udoh and Steph Curry

Swish
06-21-2011, 10:39 AM
Roy Hibbert just tweeted:


Even if there is rumor out there. It wouldn't stop me from coming to the Area55 auditions. Hope to c sum crazies 2day. Go Pacers!

Gamble1
06-21-2011, 10:40 AM
Do you think you can turn the #2 into Hickson and the Cavs 1st next year. Cavs should still suck, so the pick should be pretty high. Next year's draft is looking good.

However, if we do get D Williams to play the 3 (guess he could play the 4), then do you think we could trade Granger (maybe even Collison) to Golden State for Epke Udoh and Steph Curry
If the Cavs got the first 2 overall picks with there current roster then they would not suck as bad as they did last year. They would actually IMO be drafting around 10 next year. Their coach is good with young talent and they would be competitive.

I would never do that trade you suggested.

Sparhawk
06-21-2011, 10:43 AM
If the Cavs got the first 2 overall picks with there current roster then they would not suck as bad as they did last year. They would actually IMO be drafting around 10 next year. Their coach is good with young talent and they would be competitive.

I would never do that trade you suggested.

John Wall couldn't get wins for his team and Wall should be better than Irving. How do you think 2 rookies will win more games?

Ownagedood
06-21-2011, 10:48 AM
This is probably a trade that we should do.. But i would take a couple games to get over it. I love Roy, def one of my fav players and he is "kinda a big deal" to the fans and the organization, he has his own section of crazy cheering fans!!

Its hard to get a talented Center and i think Roy is good and will get better, however I believe we would be better off talent wise if we pulled the trigger, Roy is a lot older than he seems, for a guy that just recently came out of college.

Justin Tyme
06-21-2011, 10:52 AM
What if we could get Pekovic (in exchange for some filler) out of the deal as well?


You do realize Pekovic makes over 2 1/2 times in salary than Hibbert does? The Pacers would have come up with about 2.5 mil in salary (Dahntay?) to match Pekovic.

I really don't see this trade having any wings... a rumor. As pointed out, it's a trade with Minnie, so nothing will come from it.

Sparhawk
06-21-2011, 10:52 AM
This is probably a trade that we should do.. But i would take a couple games to get over it. I love Roy, def one of my fav players and he is "kinda a big deal" to the fans and the organization, he has his own section of crazy cheering fans!!

Its hard to get a talented Center and i think Roy is good and will get better, however I believe we would be better off talent wise if we pulled the trigger, Roy is a lot older than he seems, for a guy that just recently came out of college.

I agree, bigs are overvalued, and Roy's stock is pretty high (really high if he can get the #2). I love Roy, don't want to see him go, but if he can net us a better player, you just have to. Just like Granger, love Granger, don't want to see him go, but if he can net you 1 to 2 good players, you probably have to make that move too.

Speed
06-21-2011, 10:53 AM
Bill Simmons was right Minne leaks everything, Kahn's a tool.

Sparhawk
06-21-2011, 10:55 AM
Bill Simmons was right Minne leaks everything, Kahn's a tool.

Completely. Does he leak in the hopes of trying to drum up more interest and a better deal?

Just seems so unprofessional.

imawhat
06-21-2011, 10:55 AM
I believe some of these rumors are generated by Kahn. I don't think MIL is dumb enough to trade Bogut and #10 to move up 8 spots. Then again, look at Milwaukee's drafting from the past four seasons. They're pretty bad.

Gamble1
06-21-2011, 10:55 AM
John Wall couldn't get wins for his team and Wall should be better than Irving. How do you think 2 rookies will win more games?
Their team would be:
Irving/Baron Davis
Sessions/Gibson
Dwill
Jamison
Vajrejao

Thats a much improved team for Bryon Scott to develop and I would think its would be much more competitve over the what the Wizards added last year.

ballism
06-21-2011, 10:57 AM
John Wall couldn't get wins for his team and Wall should be better than Irving. How do you think 2 rookies will win more games?

They are 2, they've got good injured guys healing up, and they don't have Blatche or Jordan Crawford.

Sparhawk
06-21-2011, 10:59 AM
Their team would be:
Irving/Baron Davis
Sessions/Gibson
Dwill
Jamison
Vajrejao

Thats a much improved team for Bryon Scott to develop and I would think its would be much more competitve over the what the Wizards added last year.

To me, that lineup is pretty weak sauce. Rookie, undersized shooting guard, rookie, old man, good center coming off an injury.

Not really impressed with that lineup.

aaronb
06-21-2011, 11:02 AM
I could get on board with that as long as Bird is sure he can get a legitimate center to come her via free agency. Derrick is the type of dynamic power forward we really need. If i though Roy was mentally tough i would probably decline but unfortunately that's not the case.


I agree we should pull the trigger here. Roy just doesn't really fit into an uptempo system that we probably need to run. Getting a dynamic young PF for him would be a win.

Hopefully we can find a mobile young defender to replace him. Maybe a Camby-esque rebounder/defender who can run the floor a little better (Greg Monroe would be ideal)

PacerPenguins
06-21-2011, 11:04 AM
bird this shot this trade down.....

duke dynamite
06-21-2011, 11:06 AM
The book is closed on this bullshizz...

Gamble1
06-21-2011, 11:07 AM
To me, that lineup is pretty weak sauce. Rookie, undersized shooting guard, rookie, old man, good center coming off an injury.

Not really impressed with that lineup.
Irving and Dwill will have a bigger impact than Wall alone on the Wizards and even though Jamison as you say is an old man he still put up 18ppg.
Thats still a lotto team but its not a top 5 lotto team at all IMO.

SMosley21
06-21-2011, 11:15 AM
Was just talking to my girlfriend about this trade (because she's awesome like that), and she said

"I like Roy. I'm glad it didn't happen. He just needs to get stronger and braver. He needs to like hand workouts or something, fingertip pushups and the like. He holds that ball like a wee lass."

When a girl who has been a fan of the team for all of about a year can point out a reasonable means of improvement for Roy, you know his weaknesses are pretty obvious.

That being said, I love the big man and I hope we do keep him around for a long time, with only the promise of a much more talented player coming back in any trade.

BPump33
06-21-2011, 11:16 AM
Was just talking to my girlfriend about this trade (because she's awesome like that), and she said

"I like Roy. I'm glad it didn't happen. He just needs to get stronger and braver. He needs to like hand workouts or something, fingertip pushups and the like. He holds that ball like a wee lass."

I think our girlfriends would get along. Haha.

ballism
06-21-2011, 11:23 AM
To me, that lineup is pretty weak sauce. Rookie, undersized shooting guard, rookie, old man, good center coming off an injury.

Not really impressed with that lineup.

Man, they were running Baron Davis / Alonzo Gee / Anthony Parker / Hickson / Ryen Hollins lineups.
Or even Sessions / Gee / Parker / Samardo Samuels / Hickson.
Or some similar combo but with Eyenga or another D-League level players.
That's some of their most used lineups.

Noone is saying they will win a title next year. But it's not hard to see why they would improve.

dgranger17
06-21-2011, 11:24 AM
Look at Rik's career stats (regular season and playoff) then remember Hibbert is heading into his 4th year as a pro. Not to mention, he's a fan favorite and embraces the city and fans (see Charity Softball and Area55).

If the trade happens and Cleveland takes Irving, we'll have Hansbrough and Foster starting or Hansbrough and an overpaid center starting. Sounds great

Go Pacers

Don't forget to look at Rik's stats...

ballism
06-21-2011, 11:27 AM
When a girl who has been a fan of the team for all of about a year can point out a reasonable means of improvement for Roy, you know his weaknesses are pretty obvious.


Or maybe you've brainwashed her. :devil:

naptownmenace
06-21-2011, 11:31 AM
So Hibbert for D Williams
Granger for AL Jefferson huh?

What is your plan Larry

That thought does make me wonder if Larry has a deal in place to acquire Al Jefferson for Granger and then acquiring the 2nd pick to select Derrick Williams.

Jefferson would be our new Center and Derrick Williams would be our new SF/PF. Also, I'm assuming that the Pacers would get Utah's #12 pick in a deal like this and could draft their SG of the future - Burks, Brooks, or Jimmer.

I don't normally get all crazily into speculation but this definitely has me intrigued.

Collison
Burks/Brooks/Jimmer
PGeorge
Derrick Williams
Al Jefferson

That lineup would probably lose a lot of games but if nothing else, I'd be excited to watch these young guns in action.

Pacers13Colts12
06-21-2011, 11:32 AM
Roy's tweet:

Man I feel bad for whoever is sitting next to me on the plane. I just worked out then hoped in a cab to go to the airport.

Isn't the auditions today? why is he flying??

Trader Joe
06-21-2011, 11:32 AM
Roy's tweet:

Man I feel bad for whoever is sitting next to me on the plane. I just worked out then hoped in a cab to go to the airport.

Isn't the auditions today? why is he flying??

He's flying to Indy...

90'sNBARocked
06-21-2011, 11:33 AM
That thought does make me wonder if Larry has a deal in place to acquire Al Jefferson for Granger and then acquiring the 2nd pick to select Derrick Williams.

Jefferson would be our new Center and Derrick Williams would be our new SF/PF. Also, I'm assuming that the Pacers would get Utah's #12 pick in a deal like this and could draft their SG of the future - Burks, Brooks, or Jimmer.

I don't normally get all crazily into speculation but this definitely has me intrigued.

Collison
Burks/Brooks/Jimmer
PGeorge
Derrick Williams
Al Jefferson

That lineup would probably lose a lot of games but if nothing else, I'd be excited to watch these young guns in action.

If that scenerio went down, I would say Bird never reeally ahd a "plan" at all

I have heard form countless writers that Jefferson has little to no work ethic. Does not want to get better or work harder and drove Sloan batty

I would trade any current Pacer for Al Jefferson. not one. albatross salary and zero effort

pacer4ever
06-21-2011, 11:33 AM
Look at Rik's career stats (regular season and playoff) then remember Hibbert is heading into his 4th year as a pro. Not to mention, he's a fan favorite and embraces the city and fans (see Charity Softball and Area55).

If the trade happens and Cleveland takes Irving, we'll have Hansbrough and Foster starting or Hansbrough and an overpaid center starting. Sounds great

Go Pacers

Don't forget to look at Rik's stats...

Dwill would be our starter and he would play 30+ minutes a night. Plus we have free agency to acquire a center this trade would be a no brainier if offered IMO. Rik was way overrated IMO BTW a 7'4 guy who can only grab 6 boards a game that's terrible we need a rebounding slash defensive center IMO.

JB24
06-21-2011, 11:39 AM
Why are people mentioning the Jefferson thing like it's actually a credible rumour? It was a dumb suggestion brought up by a third-rate blogger.

aaronb
06-21-2011, 11:40 AM
Dwill would be our starter and he would play 30+ minutes a night. Plus we have free agency to acquire a center this trade would be a no brainier if offered IMO. Rik was way overrated IMO BTW a 7'4 guy who can only grab 6 boards a game that's terrible we need a rebounding slash defensive center IMO.


Or a rugged defender and rebounding 4 like Dale Davis was.

BigAndy
06-21-2011, 11:40 AM
Did anyone notice that in Bird's presser he said that Hibbert won't be traded today, tomorrow, or Friday, completely leaving out draft day on Thursday?

dgranger17
06-21-2011, 11:41 AM
we need to worry about replacing foster before we starting giving hibbert away...

this isn't fantasy basketball, it's real life basketball

pacer4ever
06-21-2011, 11:46 AM
we need to worry about replacing foster before we starting giving hibbert away...

this isn't fantasy basketball, it's real life basketball

lol since when is getting the #2 pick giving away?

thatch3232
06-21-2011, 11:47 AM
The only way I would trade Big Roy is if it was to ATL for J-Smoove. I still love that guy, and ATL is listening for offers now.



(http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors?&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2ffeatures%2frumors)

aaronb
06-21-2011, 11:47 AM
What I'd love to see happen if there is truth to this rumor.

Hibbert for the 2 which becomes Derrick Williams

Granger to Detroit for Greg Monroe and Ben Gordon


Then we've really pulled a rebuild with some high end pieces.

Monroe
Williams
Paul George
Gordon
Collison

Is a heck of a young exciting starting 5. Especially the front court. All 3 guys are 21 and under. All have tremendous upsides!

aaronb
06-21-2011, 11:49 AM
we need to worry about replacing foster before we starting giving hibbert away...

this isn't fantasy basketball, it's real life basketball



You can never truly replace a Jeff Foster. Grit and determination like his puts banners in the rafters!!!!

pacer4ever
06-21-2011, 11:49 AM
What I'd love to see happen if there is truth to this rumor.

Hibbert for the 2 which becomes Derrick Williams

Granger to Detroit for Greg Monroe and Ben Gordon


Then we've really pulled a rebuild with some high end pieces.

Monroe
Williams
Paul George
Gordon
Collison

Is a heck of a young exciting starting 5. Especially the front court. All 3 guys are 21 and under. All have tremendous upsides!

Granger isnt gonna get us Monroe IMO. Detroit likes him to much.

Merz
06-21-2011, 11:52 AM
Dwill would be our starter and he would play 30+ minutes a night. Plus we have free agency to acquire a center this trade would be a no brainier if offered IMO. Rik was way overrated IMO BTW a 7'4 guy who can only grab 6 boards a game that's terrible we need a rebounding slash defensive center IMO.

Watch him destroy Ewing in the 8 point, 9 seconds game and come back and say he's overrated...I dare you.

Everyone knew what he was and no one claimed he was anything more. The guy averaged 17-18 points (in his prime) barely playing 30 minutes a game for a team that scored in the 90's. We took the low rebounding numbers because the offense element he added was much needed. The Davis boys could handle the boards.

aaronb
06-21-2011, 11:56 AM
Granger isnt gonna get us Monroe IMO. Detroit likes him to much.


I figured taking Gordon's contract in the deal would make them think about it.

Gordon would actually serve some use here.

aaronb
06-21-2011, 11:58 AM
Watch him destroy Ewing in the 8 point, 9 seconds game and come back and say he's overrated...I dare you.

Everyone knew what he was and no one claimed he was anything more. The guy averaged 17-18 points (in his prime) barely playing 30 minutes a game for a team that scored in the 90's. We took the low rebounding numbers because the offense element he added was much needed. The Davis could handle the boards.


He was a really good role playing center. He was effective here because we had the Davis' here to handle the dirty work below.

You really saw a difference in his effectiveness once Dale and Antonio got here.

dgranger17
06-21-2011, 11:58 AM
You can never truly replace a Jeff Foster. Grit and determination like his puts banners in the rafters!!!!

My point was that we need to worry about finding a backup big man before we get rid of a starter.

We're slim at the 4/5 as it is. If this trade goes down we're looking at... Hansbrough and Williams at the 4 and nobody at the 5. SWEET, that'll put banners in the rafters!!!!

PaceBalls
06-21-2011, 11:59 AM
Roy has endeared himself to the fans and everyone really likes the guy. But we cannot let that get in the way of basketball decisions. I think Roy is probably the best trade chip we have right now besides Paul, even higher than Danny. Mostly because of salary and position.

I am really high on DWilliams and I'd pull the trigger on this one. If not this deal, then see what we can do to get Josh Smith with a Hibbert package.

aaronb
06-21-2011, 12:14 PM
My point was that we need to worry about finding a backup big man before we get rid of a starter.

We're slim at the 4/5 as it is. If this trade goes down we're looking at... Hansbrough and Williams at the 4 and nobody at the 5. SWEET, that'll put banners in the rafters!!!!


You can find scrap heap big men just about anywhere. You need to find top end assets wherever you can find them. Fill in the rest of the roster as needed.

Justin Tyme
06-21-2011, 12:18 PM
This trade isn't happening... PERIOD!!!

I want to see how much 4 Williams plays next year for the team that drafts him.

Tom White
06-21-2011, 12:21 PM
Watch him destroy Ewing in the 8 point, 9 seconds game and come back and say he's overrated...I dare you.



You mean the same Ewing whose knees were getting so bad he could hardly get off the floor?

Justin Tyme
06-21-2011, 12:22 PM
You can find scrap heap big men just about anywhere. You need to find top end assets wherever you can find them. Fill in the rest of the roster as needed.

Yep, tell that to the Mavs. They tried for years filling out the roster, and where did that get them? Numerous one and outs in the playoffs.

pacer4ever
06-21-2011, 12:24 PM
This trade isn't happening... PERIOD!!!

I want to see how much 4 Williams plays next year for the team that drafts him.

That all depends on who drafts him if he gos to Minney he will most likley play both. If he goes to Utah he would play SF.

Merz
06-21-2011, 12:27 PM
You mean the same Ewing whose knees were getting so bad he could hardly get off the floor?

He was still putting up 20/10/2.5 for the next three seasons. Were his knees that bad in 95? I guess I could always bring up Rik's feet as well.

Merz
06-21-2011, 12:32 PM
He was a really good role playing center. He was effective here because we had the Davis' here to handle the dirty work below.

You really saw a difference in his effectiveness once Dale and Antonio got here.

I agree. I don't remember anyone saying he was anything more than that, thus he was not overrated (as another poster said).

dgranger17
06-21-2011, 12:39 PM
That all depends on who drafts him if he gos to Minney he will most likley play both. If he goes to Utah he would play SF.

Utah would be loaded if Williams falls to them

Justin Tyme
06-21-2011, 12:43 PM
That all depends on who drafts him if he gos to Minney he will most likley play both.

If he goes to Utah he would play SF.


My point is too many don't seem to get he's a tweener and PF isn't his forte.

What SF over last years great pick, Hayward! Surely, you jest. :D

Reginald
06-21-2011, 01:17 PM
Hibbert is a likable, big-hearted, smart kid...who I'd offer up in this type of deal without hesitation.

The Pacers have to be able to impose their will on the boards, period. And any legitimate attempt to improve in this category needs to be viewed in an emotional vacuum.

Trophy
06-21-2011, 01:27 PM
Bull **** this is happening.

Man Kahn is really going after centers from teams.

It's getting interesting.

aaronb
06-21-2011, 01:29 PM
Yep, tell that to the Mavs. They tried for years filling out the roster, and where did that get them? Numerous one and outs in the playoffs.


What exactly has the low post juggernaut of Hibby and Hansboro won the Pacers? If the consensus is that Derrick Williams is a better pro than Hibbert, you make the deal.

The ultimate goal SHOULDN'T be 37 wins. It should be building a sustainable contender.

v_d_g
06-21-2011, 01:38 PM
I could get on board with that as long as Bird is sure he can get a legitimate center to come her via free agency.

This implies that Bird would be giving up 'a legitimate center' in Hibbert. But getting stuffed by guards on a regular basis and pulling less boards, and blocks less shots, than many guards doesn't exactly support this. What a waste of size.

And, the point is that Hibbert will NEVER get any better. I'd trade him in a BlINK. Get someone who can bang, board, and reject.

90'sNBARocked
06-21-2011, 01:40 PM
What exactly has the low post juggernaut of Hibby and Hansboro won the Pacers? If the consensus is that Derrick Williams is a better pro than Hibbert, you make the deal.

The ultimate goal SHOULDN'T be 37 wins. It should be building a sustainable contender.

I got to agree

but, and a big BUT ( :) )

Williams might not pan out, but if you think he is anywhere close , I agree you make the move

Will Galen
06-21-2011, 01:53 PM
So Hibbert for D Williams
Granger for AL Jefferson huh?

What is your plan Larry

In Bird's pacers.com presser he said what he's been saying, he want's to add to the present core group and he will only trade core group players if it makes us a lot better. In other words he's not trading a core player unless it's a 'no brainer.'

These rumors of us trading Hibbert and Granger are just people speculating.

indygeezer
06-21-2011, 01:59 PM
This implies that Bird would be giving up 'a legitimate center' in Hibbert. But getting stuffed by guards on a regular basis and pulling less boards, and blocks less shots, than many guards doesn't exactly support this. What a waste of size.

And, the point is that Hibbert will NEVER get any better. I'd trade him in a BlINK. Get someone who can bang, board, and reject.

Who is legitimatly available and meets that description?

Ozwalt72
06-21-2011, 02:06 PM
This implies that Bird would be giving up 'a legitimate center' in Hibbert. But getting stuffed by guards on a regular basis and pulling less boards, and blocks less shots, than many guards doesn't exactly support this. What a waste of size.

And, the point is that Hibbert will NEVER get any better. I'd trade him in a BlINK. Get someone who can bang, board, and reject.

What guard blocks more shots or pulls down more rebounds than Hibbert? 1.8 blocks in 27.7 minutes isn't bad by the way. He will NEVER get better? How sure are you? He's a 24 year old big man with a great work ethic.

aaronb
06-21-2011, 02:13 PM
What guard blocks more shots or pulls down more rebounds than Hibbert? 1.8 blocks in 27.7 minutes isn't bad by the way. He will NEVER get better? How sure are you? He's a 24 year old big man with a great work ethic.


It's the lack of physical attributes. Age isn't going to make Roy faster. Age isn't going to make Roy more athletic. Age isn't going to make him more aggressive.

He was a low ceiling prospect when he was drafted (which is why he lasted to 17). He's met and in some ways surpassed expectations. Doesn't change the fact that he is what he is.

A big oaf stiff

A reasonably productive one. But a big oaf stiff none the less.

Will Galen
06-21-2011, 02:18 PM
Even if the Pacers, didn't land one of the Big 3 Centers on the Market: Marc Gasol, T. Chandler, or Nene. They could always pick up someone like Dalembert as a short-term stop-gap for a year or two or maybe even roll the dice on someone like DeAndre Jordan.

I've seen stop-gaps last a lot longer than two years. If it was me, I wouldn't trade Roy right now even if it was a no brainer trade unless I already had a deal in place for another center.

90'sNBARocked
06-21-2011, 02:24 PM
NEW NUGGET, PER Ken Burger, CBS SPORTS


• The Pacers appear to be comfortable with either Thompson or Fredette with the 15th pick, but if neither is there, they’d take Markieff Morris, sources say.

90'sNBARocked
06-21-2011, 02:25 PM
Is that Klay Thompson, or Trishtian Thompson I wonder ?

Would make sense that Markief Morris is the one Bird said "knows he will be there"

Kegboy
06-21-2011, 02:27 PM
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>• The Pacers appear to be comfortable with either Thompson or Fredette with the 15th pick, but if neither is there, they’d take the next Dale Davis, sources say. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Fixed.

:devil:

TheDon
06-21-2011, 02:27 PM
ugh that doesn't excite me but if that's the way we're going I'll cheer for them just the same.

90'sNBARocked
06-21-2011, 02:32 PM
unfortunatley not much to get excited about in this draft unless we somehow nab picks #1 or #2

Ozwalt72
06-21-2011, 02:33 PM
It's the lack of physical attributes. Age isn't going to make Roy faster. Age isn't going to make Roy more athletic. Age isn't going to make him more aggressive.

He was a low ceiling prospect when he was drafted (which is why he lasted to 17). He's met and in some ways surpassed expectations. Doesn't change the fact that he is what he is.

A big oaf stiff

A reasonably productive one. But a big oaf stiff none the less.

All fair points that I can't necessarily disagree with, but I think there is room for improvement as he matures.

Development can make him a better finisher, a more consistent player on both sides of the ball. The "right" addition of weight, a concerted effort into getting a lower center of gravity via technique etc, that can make him a better player.

With Roy, there are flashes of brilliance both offensively and defensively that have little to do with how athletic he is. He's certainly not an elite athlete, but he's a basketball player.

troyc11a
06-21-2011, 03:00 PM
It's the lack of physical attributes. Age isn't going to make Roy faster. Age isn't going to make Roy more athletic. Age isn't going to make him more aggressive.

He was a low ceiling prospect when he was drafted (which is why he lasted to 17). He's met and in some ways surpassed expectations. Doesn't change the fact that he is what he is.

A big oaf stiff

A reasonably productive one. But a big oaf stiff none the less.

Age isnt going to make him 6'9 either. He is 7'2 and has gotten better every year. That is not in any way a stiff. A stiff never improves but stays the same - stiff.

Ozwalt72
06-21-2011, 03:02 PM
Age isnt going to make him 6'9 either. He is 7'2.

Hey, give him a hundred years or so and he might shrink down that much.

troyc11a
06-21-2011, 03:04 PM
Hey, give him a hundred years or so and he might shrink down that much.

Roy is probably a top 10 Center in the league. (Not counting PF/C combo's)
There are so few of them out there. No way Bird makes that trade and thankfully he has already shot that nonsense down.

Pacersalltheway10
06-21-2011, 03:11 PM
I wouldnt do this trade. Granger for #2. I'd actually do. Just too many risks by trading hibbert and not having any other centers on the roster. If we could get Gasol, Nene in free agency then I'd do it but thats a big IF.

itzryan07
06-21-2011, 03:15 PM
i would do it if we get Nene in free agency. It doesn't make sense because Derrick Williams wants to play the 3 but he said he wouldn't care to try the 4 though. I rather just trade Granger and let Williams fill in the 3

troyc11a
06-21-2011, 03:16 PM
I wouldnt do this trade. Granger for #2. I'd actually do. Just too many risks by trading hibbert and not having any other centers on the roster. If we could get Gasol, Nene in free agency then I'd do it but thats a big IF.

There had to be more to the trade that was not mentioned. A third team and additional picks had to be involved. Unless it was a case of Kahn calling Bird and offering that trade and Bird laughing his **s off before hanging up.

itzryan07
06-21-2011, 03:22 PM
he says he is a SF but the guy is 6'9 250 he is a beast reminds me of Josh Smith but he can actually shoot. The guy is perfect for the new breed of dynamic PF's like Blake Griffin Josh Smith ect.

wow, i never thought of that. Like as him as a another Blake Griffin. I never want a player being played out of the position he doesn't want to play though.

itzryan07
06-21-2011, 03:23 PM
aye who knows, maybe we get lucky and the cavs draft D-will and we get Kyrie Irving.

troyc11a
06-21-2011, 03:23 PM
wow, i never thought of that. Like as him as a another Blake Griffin. I never want a player being played out of the position he doesn't want to play though.

He can say all he wants too. Do you expect him to diss himself?

90'sNBARocked
06-21-2011, 03:27 PM
The Wolves made an offer of the number two overall pick to the Lakers for Andrew Bynum, according to a source.

Minnesota has been actively shopping the number two pick in hopes of acquiring a proven veteran.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/214235/Wolves_Offer_No_2_Pick_To_Lakers_For_Bynum#ixzz1Pw MqP9ee

No worries here I think LA will laugh

bphil
06-21-2011, 03:29 PM
This implies that Bird would be giving up 'a legitimate center' in Hibbert. But getting stuffed by guards on a regular basis and pulling less boards, and blocks less shots, than many guards doesn't exactly support this. What a waste of size.

And, the point is that Hibbert will NEVER get any better. I'd trade him in a BlINK. Get someone who can bang, board, and reject.

2008/09 - 7.1 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.1 bpg
2009/10 - 11.7 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 1.6 bpg
2010/11 - 12.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 1.8 bpg

Yeah, he'll never get any better, especially considering the fact that he's 24 years old and most legitimate centers don't reach their peak until between 28 and 30.

Pacersalltheway10
06-21-2011, 03:31 PM
There had to be more to the trade that was not mentioned. A third team and additional picks had to be involved. Unless it was a case of Kahn calling Bird and offering that trade and Bird laughing his **s off before hanging up.

Larry Bird: "So would we have to give him Granger too?" ;)

troyc11a
06-21-2011, 03:34 PM
2008/09 - 7.1 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.1 bpg
2009/10 - 11.7 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 1.6 bpg
2010/11 - 12.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 1.8 bpg

Yeah, he'll never get any better, especially considering the fact that he's 24 years old and most legitimate centers don't reach their peak until between 28 and 30.

Never get any better is laughable. Solomon Jones (v_d_g) was that you?
As bphil just showed us - Roy has gotten better every year!

bphil
06-21-2011, 03:40 PM
Comparing Hibbert and Smits in their third year in the league (both aged 24)...

Hibbert - 12.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 1.8 bpg
Smits - 10.9 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.5 bpg

Smits' numbers actually declined significantly between his 2nd and 3rd seasons... he was a mess in 90/91 and was actually benched in the second half of the season in favor of Greg Dreiling. And as we all know, Rik eventually went on to become an All-Star in 1998 at the age of 31.

Roy is doing fine. We'll regret it later if we give up on him now.

MUpaceSIC
06-21-2011, 03:49 PM
If this deal did go through (highly unlikely in my opinion) I think we would have to go hard at DeAndre Jordan. I wouldn't mind a Collison, George, Granger, D. Williams, Jordan starting five for the future.

itzryan07
06-21-2011, 03:59 PM
If this deal did go through (highly unlikely in my opinion) I think we would have to go hard at DeAndre Jordan. I wouldn't mind a Collison, George, Granger, D. Williams, Jordan starting five for the future.

or we can trade Granger for a star PF

aaronb
06-21-2011, 04:00 PM
Comparing Hibbert and Smits in their third year in the league (both aged 24)...

Hibbert - 12.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 1.8 bpg
Smits - 10.9 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.5 bpg

Smits' numbers actually declined significantly between his 2nd and 3rd seasons... he was a mess in 90/91 and was actually benched in the second half of the season in favor of Greg Dreiling. And as we all know, Rik eventually went on to become an All-Star in 1998 at the age of 31.

Roy is doing fine. We'll regret it later if we give up on him now.


That was also more than 20 years ago. The game has changed and evolved since those times. Every team employed an old school plodding 5 back in the late 80's and early 90's.

Now the slow plodding oaf 5 is being phased out. Replaced by quicker athletic bigs like Horford, Howard, Blake Griffin and such.

Mark Price probably isn't an all star in todays NBA either.

bphil
06-21-2011, 04:07 PM
That was also more than 20 years ago. The game has changed and evolved since those times. Every team employed an old school plodding 5 back in the late 80's and early 90's.

Now the slow plodding oaf 5 is being phased out. Replaced by quicker athletic bigs like Horford, Howard, Blake Griffin and such.

Mark Price probably isn't an all star in todays NBA either.

We're not talking about trading Hibbert for Horford, Howard, or Blake Griffin here, are we? Did I miss something?

troyc11a
06-21-2011, 04:13 PM
If this deal goes thru we can enjoy lottery land for the next few years. Roy is a legitimate top 10 NBA Center who has gotten better every year in the league.
The only reason the league is going to smaller Centers is because big ones are harder to find.

aaronb
06-21-2011, 04:15 PM
We're not talking about trading Hibbert for Horford, Howard, or Blake Griffin here, are we? Did I miss something?



That would be silly. Those are all top 20-25 players. Roy is a top 200 player. It's not even anywhere near the same tier.

However

Derrick Williams has some value to why he'd be worth the reach

1. He's younger
2. Much more athletic
3. Will just be entering on a rookie contract

Roy is reaching the point where you either have to pay him or lose him. He isn't anything close to a franchise pillar. So if you can roll the dice on someone who MIGHT be that pillar. I think you need to do so.

pacer4ever
06-21-2011, 04:16 PM
If this deal goes thru we can enjoy lottery land for the next few years. Roy is a legitimate top 10 NBA Center who has gotten better every year in the league.
The only reason the league is going to smaller Centers is because big ones are harder to find.

the league isn't going to small centers they are going to a new breed of PF and Derrick Williams fits that breed and will be an excellent pro and has crazy upside. This would allow us to get someone like Tyson Chandler or Kwame Brown in free agency to be center.

In the 2nd round we could go Greg Smith from Fresno and groom him. Finding another star to put next to Granger could be Derrick Williams.

troyc11a
06-21-2011, 04:17 PM
the league isn't going to small centers they are going to a new breed of PF and Derrick Williams fits that breed and will be an excellent pro and has crazy upside. This would allow us to get someone like Tyson Chandler or Kwame Brown in free agency to be center.

Ok, please explain to me how you go from D Will to Chandler and Brown?

aaronb
06-21-2011, 04:18 PM
If this deal goes thru we can enjoy lottery land for the next few years. Roy is a legitimate top 10 NBA Center who has gotten better every year in the league.
The only reason the league is going to smaller Centers is because big ones are harder to find.


Probably closer to a top 20 center. A limited upside athlete with terrible defensive presence.

Nice role player to pair with a rugged defender. Not a guy you want to give a 5/60 contract. Unfortunately we are entering decision time with Ole Roy.

Ozwalt72
06-21-2011, 04:19 PM
Ok, please explain to me how you go from D Will to Chandler and Brown?

I thought it was quite obvious he meant DWill paired with a center like those two.

troyc11a
06-21-2011, 04:20 PM
I thought it was quite obvious he meant DWill paired with a center like those two.

I know that. Why? Thats the question.
Chandler is one of the small group of Centers who is better than Roy. Kwame stinks!

aaronb
06-21-2011, 04:21 PM
I know that. Why? Thats the question.


Are you prepared for the Pacers to give Roy Hibbert a 5/60ish contract?

Ozwalt72
06-21-2011, 04:22 PM
I know that. Why? Thats the question.

Because they seem to be available in free agency and they are solid defenders, decent rebounders. And as this "rumor" is drawn out, you'd have to give up Hibbert and woul dbe in dire need of a center.

troyc11a
06-21-2011, 04:22 PM
Are you prepared for the Pacers to give Roy Hibbert a 5/60ish contract?

No, and neither will anyone else with the new CBA. If Roy progresses the next two years as he has done so far, he will be a very rich man and worth every penny

troyc11a
06-21-2011, 04:25 PM
Because they seem to be available in free agency and they are solid defenders, decent rebounders. And as this "rumor" is drawn out, you'd have to give up Hibbert and woul dbe in dire need of a center.

Ok, so this is not based on what Bird should do, it is based on what he would do if Roy is traded!
Bird already said Hibbert wasnt going anywhere. Thank goodness!

joeyd
06-21-2011, 04:32 PM
Let's face it. Roy has the size and the gifts to excel. But it seems to me that he will improve his stats and help the team if he stays on the court more and becomes more aggressive. Translation: he has to play smarter (and avoid foul trouble that takes him off the court) and get his head on straight (not get too high or too low, develop a killer instinct) and be more assertive. The first thing can be taught, the second really can't be taught.

If he stays out of foul trouble and learns the game better, which I think he can do, then he can be at the very least a consistent 15 pts/8rb/2b per game center. Perfectly fine. But with that killer instinct, the sky is the limit.

troyc11a
06-21-2011, 04:36 PM
Let's face it. Roy has the size and the gifts to excel. But it seems to me that he will improve his stats and help the team if he stays on the court more and becomes more aggressive. Translation: he has to play smarter (and avoid foul trouble that takes him off the court) and get his head on straight (not get too high or too low, develop a killer instinct) and be more assertive. The first thing can be taught, the second really can't be taught.

If he stays out of foul trouble and learns the game better, which I think he can do, then he can be at the very least a consistent 15 pts/8rb/2b per game center. Perfectly fine. But with that killer instinct, the sky is the limit.

In two years he will average 15/8/2 as you said. He is about a top 10 Center and that is not even a question among knowledgable NBA people. Is he a franchise changer like Dwight Howard - no. But he is not asked to be. He is the most important piece to our puzzle right now. If he would have went down at the beginning of last year, this team would be talking about Kyrie Irving instead of coming off the playoffs. No other Pacer starter affects the team as much as he does.

Cactus Jax
06-21-2011, 04:41 PM
Killer instinct is something you're born with, you don't learn it over time. Roy just doesn't have that and I don't think ever will, I mean look at Lebron and how he's getting railed on for lack of killer instinct (besides to Cleveland).

I think this is an offer from the Pacers as a: take it or leave it, no exceptions to the trade, if you don't want to do it we'll move on with our draft.

Justin Tyme
06-21-2011, 04:49 PM
I never want a player being played out of the position he doesn't want to play though.


Yep, ask Gerald Wallace about playing out of position as a "PF", and injury.

aaronb
06-21-2011, 04:51 PM
He is the most important piece to our puzzle right now. If he would have went down at the beginning of last year, this team would be talking about Kyrie Irving instead of coming off the playoffs.


Instead of us taking Dallas to 7 games in the NBA finals?



Oh


You mean winning 37 games and backing into the playoffs because Jordan traded his best player and Milwaukee was crippled by injuries?



The playoff appearance was nice and all. Just take it with a grain of realism. This ISN'T a great roster. If we can take a step back to move 2 steps forward. It needs to be considered.

Justin Tyme
06-21-2011, 04:53 PM
That was also more than 20 years ago. The game has changed and evolved since those times. Every team employed an old school plodding 5 back in the late 80's and early 90's.

Now the slow plodding oaf 5 is being phased out. Replaced by quicker athletic bigs like Horford, Howard, Blake Griffin and such.

Mark Price probably isn't an all star in todays NBA either.


Horford is playing out of position at C. This is the reason the Hawks would like to have a C.

90'sNBARocked
06-21-2011, 05:50 PM
The Alvin Williams Fan Club in Toronto, Canada:
If you were David Khan and was offered Roy Hibbert and the #15 pick for the #2 pick + spare parts (to make salaries match). Do you accept the offer? Why or why not?


Eric Pincus:
I would. Hibbert is a nice player and the Wolves could use a true center.



Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1697#ixzz1PwwsISUt

NapTonius Monk
06-21-2011, 06:13 PM
I could get on board with that as long as Bird is sure he can get a legitimate center to come her via free agency.
http://dalje.com/slike/slike_3/r1/g2008/m08/y31179529891103048.jpg

5 MORE FOUL WHERE THAT COME FROM!

Trader Joe
06-21-2011, 06:15 PM
Looks like the local news decided to pick up this rumor.

pacer4ever
06-21-2011, 06:17 PM
Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1697#ixzz1PwwsISUt

Thats the beauty of this trade rumor it would help both teams.

ECKrueger
06-21-2011, 06:20 PM
It would take a lot for me to want to trade Roy. I know he is not the best, but he is pretty good, and pretty big. I think he means a lot more to the franchise than just what he brings on the court. He is not untouchable, but I would not get rid of him for much.

90'sNBARocked
06-21-2011, 06:37 PM
Larry Bird shot down a rumor that the Pacers and Timberwolves were discussing a Roy Hibbert for the No. 2 pick trade.

"We're not doing that," Bird said at a press conference today. "I'm not interested in trading Roy. Roy is one of our core group guys."

The Wolves are trying to find a trade partner for the No. 2 pick, but the Pacers' refusal to give up Hibbert for it (and the Wizards' refusal to part ways with JaVale McGee) show just how difficult that task may be. Both Hibbert and McGee were mid-first-round picks.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/30546/latest-draft-buzz-kings-no-7-for-felton

ilive4sports
06-21-2011, 06:39 PM
http://dalje.com/slike/slike_3/r1/g2008/m08/y31179529891103048.jpg

5 MORE FOUL WHERE THAT COME FROM!

I bet Manu made that shot.

PaulGeorge
06-21-2011, 06:49 PM
The pacers will most likely make a move. either a big one or a minor one like trading rush. should be an interested draft night for us.

LA_Confidential
06-21-2011, 06:54 PM
I'd rather trade Danny.

PacerGuy
06-21-2011, 07:08 PM
On the deal mentioned (Hibbert+15 for #2 & ?) - I easily Pass.

I would much rather hold on to Roy & gamble by moving Danny?
Why?
-I am not concerned how good either has been the last 3 yrs., but rather the NEXT 3 yrs. We all know big's take longer to develope. Roy has come to the last 2 camps improved, Danny is the same guy.
-Roy has a history of being durable, Danny has had reoccurring knee issues that have put him on the sideline for extended periods the last 2 years.
-Roy is a fan favorite & has connected with this community in a way Danny never has, never will. Roy's personality is marketable, Danny's, meh...
-Just like in the draft, I'd rather gamble going "Big" then "Small". While Danny's scoring would be missed, he is overall more replacable then Roy IMO.
INSTEAD...
I'd try & move Danny for #2 + #20 + filler (Webster/Flynn works).
Draft D.Williams #2, & use #15 to draft Jimmer, Singleton, or Brooks. Also worth thinking about, there seems to be teams listening to moving down (MIL), so maybe move #15 + Rush, or if possible #20 + Rush + ? to get #10 (Singleton) AND, if everything fell right still keep #15 for Jimmer or Brooks.

IMO I would rather do this and build AROUND Roy rather then moving him & hoping Danny can regain the form he has not shown for 2 years now.
Just my opinion...

ECKrueger
06-21-2011, 07:19 PM
I completely agree PacerGuy. I think Roy is near as valuable to us as Danny is, yet Danny would likely get much more in return in a trade.

speakout4
06-21-2011, 07:56 PM
Roy has never played with a traditional and talented power forward along side him so when that happens we can judge Roy's worth. He is not particularly strong or athletic but having a banger to occupy opposing bangers would improve his game. I am not on board with trading Roy for a PF who would rather plan SF.

imbtyler
06-21-2011, 08:22 PM
aye who knows, maybe we get lucky and the cavs draft D-will and we get Kyrie Irving.

I actually have Cleveland taking Williams with the #1. Although, from there, I have Minny taking Kanter at #2, and then the whole mock just gets weird. Do you think Utah would draft Jan Vesely before Kyrie Irving? Because for some reason, I do, and I have Cleveland "winning" both projected top picks. Karma from the basketball gods, perhaps.

imbtyler
06-21-2011, 08:30 PM
the league isn't going to small centers they are going to a new breed of PF and Derrick Williams fits that breed and will be an excellent pro and has crazy upside. This would allow us to get someone like Tyson Chandler or DeAndre Jordan or anyone but Kwame Brown to play at center.

In the 2nd round we could go Greg Smith from Fresno and groom him. Finding another star to put next to Granger could be Derrick Williams.

Fixed.

spreedom
06-21-2011, 08:42 PM
Don't sleep on Kwame Brown. He may be an underachiever considering he's a former #1 overall pick, but he was rebounding at a freakish rate after Next Town Brown was jettisoned in Charlotte. I'd welcome him as a backup for the Pacers at the right price.

DocHolliday
06-21-2011, 08:47 PM
Roy has never played with a traditional and talented power forward along side him so when that happens we can judge Roy's worth. He is not particularly strong or athletic but having a banger to occupy opposing bangers would improve his game. I am not on board with trading Roy for a PF who would rather plan SF.

Did Smits' improvement coincide with the Pacers getting D-squared? It seems like I remember him working with a Hall of Fame post player in the off-season on his post game, but my memory is foggy on the rest of it. Early in his career, who was the PF next to him, LaSalle Thompson?

Pacersalltheway10
06-21-2011, 08:50 PM
Looks like the local news decided to pick up this rumor.

I think those soccer moms who didn't like Roy making Lance and Paul wear those pink backpacks submitted it to the local news. :rolleyes:

Justin Tyme
06-21-2011, 09:21 PM
Don't sleep on Kwame Brown. He may be an underachiever considering he's a former #1 overall pick, but he was rebounding at a freakish rate after Next Town Brown was jettisoned in Charlotte. I'd welcome him as a backup for the Pacers at the right price.


Absolutely, and he would be extremely reasonable.

croz24
06-21-2011, 10:03 PM
i would much rather trade danny straight up for #2 and derrick williams than deal hibbert + #15 for the #2.

bphil
06-21-2011, 10:08 PM
http://dalje.com/slike/slike_3/r1/g2008/m08/y31179529891103048.jpg

5 MORE FOUL WHERE THAT COME FROM!

Wow. I literally laughed about this for a solid minute.

graphic-er
06-21-2011, 10:28 PM
Just to throw a little wood on the fire. I believe Birds quote was something like "I wouldn't trade Roy Today, or trade him tomorrow, wouldn't trade him on Friday."..... Bird left out Thurdsay, which is the day of the draft!

:onozomg:

Cactus Jax
06-21-2011, 10:32 PM
Granger has been nothing but great for the Pacers organization. Just cause Roy started an Area 55 idea shouldn't mean that he's untouchable somehow. Granger > Hibbert + 15. If you all want 20-25 win seasons for the next 2-3 years by all means trade Granger for #2

Pacer Fan
06-21-2011, 10:38 PM
What would they do with the tickets if Roy gets traded? Could / would he get a refund...lol