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View Full Version : Jazz making Millsap, Harris available



pwee31
06-16-2011, 09:43 PM
http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/30086797



Owners of the No. 3 pick and the No. 12 pick, the Utah Jazz figure to be one of the major movers and shakers in next Thursday's NBA Draft.

Indeed, ESPN.com reports that the Jazz aren't simply looking to deal picks. They could also be open to moving major roster pieces.

Jazz looking for deals. Would be open to discussing Paul Millsap or Devin Harris.

Trading Millsap, Harris or both would be textbook rebuilding trade(s). If the Jazz ship either player out it shouldn't come as a surprise.

In Millsap's case, the Jazz must decide whether forward Derrick Favors, acquired from the New Jersey Nets in a deal involving Deron Williams, is ready to be their franchise forward. Given his talent level and sheer size, he should be sooner rather than later. Once the Jazz determine Favors is ready to be the guy, Millsap, an undersized power forward set to make $8.1 million next year, is a poor fit next to him. They'll either compete with each other for minutes or be forced to play alongside each other in an unconventional frontline. Either way, it's not ideal. It could work for next season, maybe, but eventually the training wheels are going to come off of Favors and someone's going to get their minutes and/or touches crunched.

Harris -- who is on the books for $9.3 million in 2011-2012 -- has been one of the most rumored trade pieces for years now. Perhaps that is because he is a "grass is greener on the other side" point guard for teams unhappy with their own starting one. He has good size, solid athleticism and a good but not great overall skill level. Unfortunately, he always seems to play on losing teams and doesn't have the talent to right a ship by himself. One other major factor weighing on whether the Jazz keep Harris: they are in position to draft a potential franchise point guard at No. 3, with Brandon Knight and Kemba Walker as two possibilities. Another option: selecting Jimmer Fredette at No. 12. Either way, eventually Harris, and his salary number, is going to stand in the way of a youth movement.

Building from the ground up requires a hard look at all of the current pieces. Outside of Favors, Gordon Hayward and whoever they draft at No. 3, everyone on the Jazz roster should be expendable. If you're heading towards a youth movement, it's best to go all the way with it. Plus, both Millsap and Harris carry some trade trade value. Shopping them makes all the sense in the world.

BringJackBack
06-16-2011, 09:51 PM
I'm very interested in Milsap to be our starting power forward to compliment Roy, who can score the ball very well, at a high clip, and consistently without requiring many touches. That is something we need. Not to even mention, he has a great contract.

rocksballer58
06-16-2011, 09:53 PM
Would be a solid move by Indy to pick Millsap up.

Trophy
06-16-2011, 09:54 PM
This is pretty interesting.

They're looking to have Jefferson as their main center and Favors improving at starting PF.

I'd grab Millsap for a reasonable deal. He's a pretty solid big man despite his height.

I'm not surprised Devin Harris is available.

OakMoses
06-16-2011, 09:57 PM
If there were a way to grab both these guys while keeping Granger and George, maybe even Roy...

Heisenberg
06-16-2011, 10:00 PM
I'd be a fan of getting Millsap, but I dunno, what do we have that makes sense besides pick(s) and capspace?

90'sNBARocked
06-16-2011, 10:01 PM
I like milsap but he is a below average rebouner and with Roy that would be a bad thing

ensergio
06-16-2011, 10:02 PM
Posey and #15 for Millsap? Is that possible?

Sparhawk
06-16-2011, 10:02 PM
Not interested in either of them, but I'd would go for Milsap if there is no other way to acquire another big man. I'd rather trade for Jefferson.

rocksballer58
06-16-2011, 10:05 PM
Posey and #15 for Millsap? Is that possible?

It could be if Indy added a bit more to it.

xBulletproof
06-16-2011, 10:05 PM
Milsap in no way fits what we need at PF, but he has a good contract that ends at the same time as Dannys. Start lining those up if you can. He also may be the most talented option at PF besides Josh Smith.

If it can be done fine. If not that's fine too. He's not a great rebounder or shot blocker. That's what we need.

Young
06-16-2011, 10:10 PM
I like Harris. He can play much better defense compared to other starting point guards in the NBA. With that said I don't know that he would be worth what it costs to get him. Just how much better would he make this team than what Darren Collison does?

I like Paul Millsap but can this team be a top defensive team with him at PF? I think on offense he would be fine playing with Roy since Roy can step away from the basket but on defense...i'm not so confident.

LetsTalkPacers
06-16-2011, 10:16 PM
Posey, Rush, #15 for Milsap?

ensergio
06-16-2011, 10:16 PM
Milsap in no way fits what we need at PF, but he has a good contract that ends at the same time as Dannys. Start lining those up if you can. He also may be the most talented option at PF besides Josh Smith.

If it can be done fine. If not that's fine too. He's not a great rebounder or shot blocker. That's what we need.

Is weird. I thought of Millsap like a banger.

Hicks
06-16-2011, 10:20 PM
Milsap may not be the ideal PF, but he'd certainly be our starting, PF. If the price is right, he would be a worthwhile addition to this team.

OakMoses
06-16-2011, 10:22 PM
The problem with a Utah trade is that, other than cap space - which won't be tradable until after the lockout - we really have nothing to offer them. Assuming George is untouchable, our other assets are Hansbrough, Hibbert, and Collison. They're probably not going to get too excited about Hans since they're moving Millsap to make room for Favors. Roy and DC might get it done but we're going to wind up with a bigger hole than the one we're trying to fill.

You might be able to swing a deal for both guys with Paul George heading to Utah, but that ses like forsaking the future for a few years of 2nd round playoff exits.

Personally I'd work really hard to swing a Hibbert for Jefferson deal.

PacerPenguins
06-16-2011, 10:22 PM
if we keep tyler roy granger george and DC i would jump off the couch...

DC
George
Granger
Millsap
Hibbert

WOW :)

pacer4ever
06-16-2011, 10:32 PM
The problem with a Utah trade is that, other than cap space - which won't be tradable until after the lockout - we really have nothing to offer them. Assuming George is untouchable, our other assets are Hansbrough, Hibbert, and Collison. They're probably not going to get too excited about Hans since they're moving Millsap to make room for Favors. Roy and DC might get it done but we're going to wind up with a bigger hole than the one we're trying to fill.

You might be able to swing a deal for both guys with Paul George heading to Utah, but that ses like forsaking the future for a few years of 2nd round playoff exits.

Personally I'd work really hard to swing a Hibbert for Jefferson deal.

why cant we trade the TJ Ford's expiring right now? or what not it is pretty much the same as cap space.

OakMoses
06-16-2011, 10:39 PM
why cant we trade the TJ Ford's expiring right now? or what not it is pretty much the same as cap space.

You can't trade expiring contracts.

What we may need to do is get a third team involved, one with an SG they'd like to move. Maybe we involve Memphis and Utah winds up with Mayo while we get Millsap or Harris.

Pacer Fan
06-16-2011, 10:39 PM
Give Tyler another year and I think he will be as good if not better then Milsap! But having both splitting time...Heck of a 1...2...punch!

troyc11a
06-16-2011, 10:53 PM
I like Harris. He can play much better defense compared to other starting point guards in the NBA. With that said I don't know that he would be worth what it costs to get him. Just how much better would he make this team than what Darren Collison does?

I like Paul Millsap but can this team be a top defensive team with him at PF? I think on offense he would be fine playing with Roy since Roy can step away from the basket but on defense...i'm not so confident.

Milsap is not the answer to our PF situation. With all that money, I would hope they would wait to get someone who will be the answer long term.

I really like Harris. He would be an obvious upgrade over Collison. And as to your question, I think the biggest upgrade of all would be Collison as the backup instead of Price. So in essence, bringing in Harris would upgrade both pg spots! I am for it!

Is it possible that Utah would ship Harris out for cap space (Rush)?

PR07
06-16-2011, 10:57 PM
I like milsap but he is a below average rebouner and with Roy that would be a bad thing

Isn't one of Millsap's strength's rebounding? I thought he was like the Division I leader in rebounder when he played?

Edit: Yes sir.


Paul Millsap, Louisiana Tech, 6-8, 245, Junior
Key Stats: 19.9 ppg, 13.0 rpg (1st in nation), 56.6 FG%, 2.3 bpg



Paul Millsap
Although most college basketball fans have never seen him play, Millsap's name is well known to two groups of basketball aficionados: statistical enthusiasts and NBA GMs. Millsap is poised to become the first player in the history of NCAA Division I men's basketball to lead the nation in rebounding for three straight seasons. Millsap is strong and has excellent hands, but the reason he gets the rebounds he does is sheer determination mixed with some physical power. Playing in the Western Athletic Conference has enabled Millsap to put up impressive offensive numbers that might not be as big if he were in a stronger conference, but his work ethic and hustle would make him a premier rebounder against any competition. You don't need to go to a big school to be a big-time player. Or have you already forgotten a previous Louisiana Tech big man named Karl Malone?
http://kfba.net/cs/forums/t/3754.aspx

ensergio
06-16-2011, 11:01 PM
Isn't one of Millsap's strength's rebounding? I thought he was like the Division I leader in rebounder when he played?

Edit: Yes sir.


http://kfba.net/cs/forums/t/3754.aspx

His last two seasons he has regressed in the boards according to basketballreference.com

troyc11a
06-16-2011, 11:06 PM
Give Tyler another year and I think he will be as good if not better then Milsap! But having both splitting time...Heck of a 1...2...punch!

He might be as good now if you look at what he did once inserted into the starting line-up (14.6/6.3). Tyler should improve his consistency. Milsap is as good as he will ever get.

That's not the main reason I dont like Milsap on this team. He is more of the same. A smaller PF who plays no "D". I would like to see a player who will compliment Tyler not be a clone.

PR07
06-16-2011, 11:08 PM
His last two seasons he has regressed in the boards according to basketballreference.com

That still doesn't mean he's a below average rebounder.

OakMoses
06-16-2011, 11:17 PM
Millsap's rebounding decline is pretty much in direct correlation with how he's being asked to play offensively. When Jefferson came to Utah Millsap moved away from the basket offensively to open up the floor for Jefferson's post game. The natural result of this was a decrease in offensive rebounds. He is still a good rebounder, you just have to put him in the position to do it.

It doesn't change the fact that he's a high FG% guy who had a PER and Wins added rating that's higher than any player on the Pacers last season. If you're an advanced stats believer, then you definitely want us to get Millsap.

Pacer Fan
06-16-2011, 11:25 PM
He might be as good now if you look at what he did once inserted into the starting line-up (14.6/6.3). Tyler should improve his consistency. Milsap is as good as he will ever get.

That's not the main reason I dont like Milsap on this team. He is more of the same. A smaller PF who plays no "D". I would like to see a player who will compliment Tyler not be a clone.

I agree with you! That's why I mentioned That I think Tyler will be as good if not better then Milsap. Meaning, I don't think Milsap is all that!

However,
I wouldn't complain if Pacers got him in a good deal.
48 minutes of that constant intensity and not be tired doing it would be pretty powerful.

Think about Ty and then Bob coming in and the intensity was gone.
Milsap, then Ty coming in. It would be like really intense for the opponent I think. :)

troyc11a
06-16-2011, 11:27 PM
I agree with you! That's why I mentioned That I think Tyler will be as good if not better then Milsap. Meaning, I don't think Milsap is all that!

However,
I wouldn't complain if Pacers got him in a good deal.
48 minutes of that constant intensity and not be tired doing it would be pretty powerful.

Think about Ty and then Bob coming in and the intensity was gone.
Milsap, then Ty coming in. It would be like really intense for the opponent I think. :)

I think I would rather pair Tyler with Roy than Milsap. Milsap is the perfect backup PF. He brings energy and has a little offense. His weakness is defense. That's why I would rather get a longer more athletic PF than him. But it would be hard to complain if we got him cheap without giving up any of our core.

BringJackBack
06-16-2011, 11:29 PM
I am going to start Mlsap at power forward....

Pacer Fan
06-16-2011, 11:31 PM
I think I would rather pair Tyler with Roy than Milsap. Milsap is the perfect backup PF. He brings energy and has a little offense. His weakness is defense. That's why I would rather get a longer more athletic PF than him. But it would be hard to complain if we got him cheap without giving up any of our core.

Yep!

pacer4ever
06-16-2011, 11:32 PM
I think I would rather pair Tyler with Roy than Milsap. Milsap is the perfect backup PF. He brings energy and has a little offense. His weakness is defense. That's why I would rather get a longer more athletic PF than him. But it would be hard to complain if we got him cheap without giving up any of our core.

lol Milsap backing up Hans OMG lol no. Milsap is a much better player than Tyler IMO. little offense WTF are u smoking i want some


17 and 7 shooting 53% is much more efficent and better than Tyler IMO. He doent have ideal size but he plays hard just like Tyler.

sayin he should back up Tyler if we got him is comical.

DocHolliday
06-16-2011, 11:34 PM
Isn't one of Millsap's strength's rebounding? I thought he was like the Division I leader in rebounder when he played?

Edit: Yes sir.


http://kfba.net/cs/forums/t/3754.aspx

I remember he and Jefferson did a number on the Pacers this past season. They were both very active.

Pacer Fan
06-16-2011, 11:39 PM
lol Milsap backing up Hans OMG lol no. Milsap is a much better player than Tyler IMO. little offense WTF are u smoking i want some


17 and 7 shooting 53% is much more efficent and better than Tyler IMO. He doent have ideal size but he plays hard just like Tyler.

sayin he should back up Tyler if we got him is comical.
I don't think thats comical...Ty has the ability this coming year to possibly surpass Milsap and if he does who would be laughing then? Ty just come off his rookie year by all rights...Coached by a loser of a coach for 2/3's of it.
We will see!:)

BornReady
06-16-2011, 11:54 PM
I like milsap but he is a below average rebouner and with Roy that would be a bad thing

gotta disagree with this bro. Millsap is a great rebounder :)

Merz
06-16-2011, 11:57 PM
I like Millsap a lot. If we don't get a Josh Smith or some other shot-blocking, rebounding PF through trade I'd gladly accept Millsap.

ChristianDudley
06-17-2011, 12:26 AM
I'd LOVE to have Millsap. Especially if we'd be able to keep Roy/Danny/PG/DC. Get this done, Larry!!!!

CableKC
06-17-2011, 01:46 AM
The best offer I could come up with would be to see if we could move BRush for a mid-20s pick, then package the pick with TPE+15 for Milsap.

Basically 2 Non-Lottery 1st round picks + a TPE for Milsap....but realistically, I don't think that it would be enough.

wintermute
06-17-2011, 02:23 AM
Another vote for Devin Harris. I'd trade Collison + Posey (young player and cap relief) for him.

Frostwolf
06-17-2011, 06:50 AM
i would be extremely pleased if tyler ever got to the same level of production and consistency as millsap. millsap is a much better player right now, and i would have no problem having tyler (if he isnt traded for him) backing him up for one or two seasons more.

xIndyFan
06-17-2011, 07:03 AM
milsap seems to fall in that large group of PF that would be an inprovement, but are not really the guy the pacers are looking for. if the pacers traded for him, then i would not be unhappy. but i would not be thrilled. i would not go "yes, bird really got the guy he needed to get." neither would most of indy, imo.

millsap is a decent player. probably better than tyler, but he is not a guy that will lead the pacers to the ECF. pacers don't need another undersized 4. they can live with millsap, but he is not the guy they need. he is better than what they have, but not enough better to really make a difference record wise.

millsap is ok. pacer PF right now are poor. ok is better than poor. but neither of them is good. and good is what the pacers need to get.

D-BONE
06-17-2011, 07:20 AM
Milsap is a beast. Come on, everybody. The only downside is he doesn't have traditional PF height and, consequently, he's not much of a shotblocker.

Other than that he's the quintessential blue-collar, glasse-eating PF. Plus, he doesn't demand the ball. All the better for our scorers. He manufactures his points the garbage route, but doesn't require touches.

I'd have no problems if we weren't interested based on wanting more size/shotblocking. I do think, however, that this comparison with Josh Smith is almost like apples and oranges. Yes they would play the same postion, but their games/styles are quite different.

Not to mention how they fit with existing talent/chemistry. Speaking of which, I like Smith's explosiveness and athleticism as much as the next guy, but I feel that there might be a wee tendency to overrate this guy here as if he would be our savior. Yes, he has shot-blocking, but he's really no more a traditional PF than Milsap. Plus, he's got alleged attitude/buy-in to team best interest up and down the block. I don't want a savior PF who we have to constantly harp on to get down low instead of hanging out on the perimeter looking for 3s. How do we know all that automatically changes?

Really?
06-17-2011, 07:29 AM
Millsap is good and acquiring him with the current team would make us better, but we would still have a long way to go to become a championship team... we need a Superstar that fits our system, and the only way that we will possibly get that is through the draft... (Not this years draft by the way)

Speed
06-17-2011, 07:53 AM
Milsap killed the Pacers at Conseco last year. Thing is what does Utah want for him, I'm not sure the Pacers have the pieces that Utah would want or the Pacers would be willing to give up.

23 points and 18 rebounds that night in late Feb, wow.

pwee31
06-17-2011, 08:00 AM
If the Jazz pass on Fredette at #12 and he falls to us at #15, perhaps that's the ammo we need to strike a deal with the Jazz?

xIndyFan
06-17-2011, 08:19 AM
Milsap killed the Pacers at Conseco last year. Thing is what does Utah want for him, I'm not sure the Pacers have the pieces that Utah would want or the Pacers would be willing to give up.

23 points and 18 rebounds that night in late Feb, wow.

doesn't that say as much about the state of the pacer PF's as it does about millsap? not saying millsap sux, just that he is not the missing piece to take the pacers to the ECF or even the 2nd round.

millsap seems to be a guy better than what the pacers have, but not what the pacers need. similar to the darren collison trade. darren was much better than what the pacers had, but doesn't look to be the guy that will lead the team to the next level.

Shade
06-17-2011, 08:20 AM
Definitely interested in Millsap for the right price.

PR07
06-17-2011, 08:41 AM
Problem is, I don't see us having the ammunition to trade for him without giving away a core piece like a Granger, Hibbert, or George.

BPump33
06-17-2011, 08:42 AM
Milsap killed the Pacers at Conseco last year. Thing is what does Utah want for him, I'm not sure the Pacers have the pieces that Utah would want or the Pacers would be willing to give up.

23 points and 18 rebounds that night in late Feb, wow.

Milsap and Jefferson absolutely destroyed us that game. We didn't even stand a chance in the paint.

Speed
06-17-2011, 08:56 AM
Milsap and Jefferson absolutely destroyed us that game. We didn't even stand a chance in the paint.

I had good seats for that game too. Hayward posterized PG one time, but thats really all he did. It was funny how many Butler/Brownsburg shirts where in the arena. That game really made me realize how much the Pacers need some more firepower or a dominating defender in the frontcourt. Pacers had no answers for those two.

BPump33
06-17-2011, 09:01 AM
I had good seats for that game too. Hayward posterized PG one time, but thats really all he did. It was funny how many Butler/Brownsburg shirts where in the arena. That game really made me realize how much the Pacers need some more firepower or a dominating defender in the frontcourt. Pacers had no answers for those two.

Yeah, that was the game we were upgraded to Legends from the balcony. We were surrounded by Butler/Hayward fans. It's also where I heard the quote, "Hayward is best white basketball player since Bird." Sometimes, I hate people.

Yeah, that was about a month into "smashmouth basketball" and Utah showed us exactly what that meant. I hated that game.

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 09:31 AM
Milsap is a beast. Come on, everybody. The only downside is he doesn't have traditional PF height and, consequently, he's not much of a shotblocker.

Other than that he's the quintessential blue-collar, glasse-eating PF. Plus, he doesn't demand the ball. All the better for our scorers. He manufactures his points the garbage route, but doesn't require touches.

I'd have no problems if we weren't interested based on wanting more size/shotblocking. I do think, however, that this comparison with Josh Smith is almost like apples and oranges. Yes they would play the same postion, but their games/styles are quite different.

Not to mention how they fit with existing talent/chemistry. Speaking of which, I like Smith's explosiveness and athleticism as much as the next guy, but I feel that there might be a wee tendency to overrate this guy here as if he would be our savior. Yes, he has shot-blocking, but he's really no more a traditional PF than Milsap. Plus, he's got alleged attitude/buy-in to team best interest up and down the block. I don't want a savior PF who we have to constantly harp on to get down low instead of hanging out on the perimeter looking for 3s. How do we know all that automatically changes?

Josh Smith is not a PF he is a SF. His game is not suitable to our needs. Really, I dont think Milsap is that good of a fit but he fits in much better than Smith does. I wouldnt be against acquiring Milsap for the right price, but I dont want any part of Smith.

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 09:36 AM
lol Milsap backing up Hans OMG lol no. Milsap is a much better player than Tyler IMO. little offense WTF are u smoking i want some


17 and 7 shooting 53% is much more efficent and better than Tyler IMO. He doent have ideal size but he plays hard just like Tyler.

sayin he should back up Tyler if we got him is comical.

17/7 is "Much" better than 14/6? Do the math and then consider that Tyler was basically in his rookie year. Tyler will get better. Milsap is as good as he will get. I would expect Tyler to put up similar numbers in a year or two and cost much less. If we upgrade the PF position it needs to be with a guy who is bigger, longer, and more athletic. Not one who is none of these - ala Milsap.

BPump33
06-17-2011, 09:39 AM
17/7 is "Much" better than 14/6? Do the math and then consider that Tyler was basically in his rookie year. Tyler will get better. Milsap is as good as he will get. I would expect Tyler to put up similar numbers in a year or two and cost much less. If we upgrade the PF position it needs to be with a guy who is bigger, longer, and mroe athletic. Not one who is none of these - ala Milsap.

Milsap is only 9 months older than Tyler. He has been in the league for 5 years, compared to Tyler's 1.25. However, it's not like Tyler's body didn't take a beating for four years playing at NC. His style of play isn't exactly soft. I don't think it's fair to say that one can get better and the other can't. I'm sure they both could still improve.

Tom White
06-17-2011, 09:41 AM
Definitely interested in Millsap for the right price.

That is my problem with Milsap, or Harris for that matter. Do the Pacers really want to pay those kind of dollars for guys that are not exactly what might be needed? Especially having just gotten the player payroll under control?

Speed
06-17-2011, 09:43 AM
Milsap, if he's making 8 like Ive seen is worth that easily, imo.

Lou Bega
06-17-2011, 09:53 AM
The Jazz if they draft correctly may get the better end of the D Williams trade. Going to be very interesting to see how decent New Jersey is with him for a full season next year?

Kamiyohk
06-17-2011, 10:04 AM
Granger + 15th pick for Millsap + 3rd pick + 12 pick

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 10:09 AM
Milsap is only 9 months older than Tyler. He has been in the league for 5 years, compared to Tyler's 1.25. However, it's not like Tyler's body didn't take a beating for four years playing at NC. His style of play isn't exactly soft. I don't think it's fair to say that one can get better and the other can't. I'm sure they both could still improve.

The opinion on Milsap not improving is more based on his years in the league and his body type and athleticism. I would be shocked if he ever puts up significantly better numbers than he did last year. 17/7 on a bad team is decent, nothing wrong with him as a player. I just feel that given time, Tyler will show more consistency and be a better player than Milsap. He is taller, quicker, and is a hard worker! Guarateed improvement with Psycho T!

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 10:10 AM
Granger + 15th pick for Millsap + 3rd pick + 12 pick

That is not a bad trade for the Pacers if Williams is still on the board. I dont like it if he is not though. I could see Utah not wanting Williams because they already have Favors.

I would rather substitute Harris for Milsap. Then I would do that deal in a heartbeat! With or without Williams in the mix!

naptownmenace
06-17-2011, 10:13 AM
I'd prefer the Pacers to wait until free agency starts and use their capspace to strike a deal like this.

They could then just offer an uneven salary trade of Brandon Rush + future protected 1st round pick for Milsap + future 2nd round pick. Utah would get cap space and an additional 1st round pick which is like gold to rebuilding teams.

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 10:18 AM
I'd prefer the Pacers to wait until free agency starts and use their capspace to strike a deal like this.

They could then just offer an uneven salary trade of Brandon Rush + future protected 1st round pick for Milsap + future 2nd round pick. Utah would get cap space and an additional 1st round pick which is like gold to rebuilding teams.

I just thought of something. We are all debating Milsap but the Pacers would be much more improved by going after Harris. He is an All-Star "caliber" pg. He would be a major upgrade while Milsap would be a minor one. Plus, we need more size and "D" at the pg position too.

Part Timer
06-17-2011, 10:20 AM
Milsap isn’t worth the farm, so I would think that the Pacers (if interested) would only be willing to offer some financial savings. I’m not certain if this would work under the existing CBA, but as an example –

Posey for Milsap

and as a separate transaction

the Pacers absorb Raja Bell into the Murphy exception (with some pick going from Indy to Utah)

I think this would reduce Utah’s payroll by about 3.5m for 2010/11, saving them that much in luxury tax payments. It would remove about 3.8m from the 2011/12 season payroll and about 12m for the 2012/13.

It would not get Utah under the luxury tax for this year though (presuming espn or shamsports’ numbers are correct and the tax at like 70.5m), so I’m not sure how much interest Utah would really have.

Perhaps it’s a starting point. It would depend on how much more Utah would want and how much the Pacers would be willing to budge.

Really?
06-17-2011, 10:25 AM
Granger + 15th pick for Millsap + 3rd pick + 12 pick

Who would be the picks?

PacerGuy
06-17-2011, 10:30 AM
Granger + 15th pick for Millsap + 3rd pick + 12 pick

Maybe more like Danny/Brandon/AJ for Milsap/Harris/#3, and even then...

12 for 15 is a No for the Jazz as Jimmer does not get pass PHX @ 13

Personally I'd prefer a deal that lands J.Smith, maybe sending Milsap to ATL.

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 10:30 AM
What about this:

Granger + #15 = Milsap, Harris, and #12? (Maybe even throw in Hayward since we would need another wing)

Utah picks up cap space, a scoring wing, keeps their #3.
Pacers add depth to the front court, upgrade pg, add a versitle wing, and upgrade draft position.


I'll be honest, I wold probably do that deal without Utah adding their #12.

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 10:31 AM
Maybe more like Danny/Brandon/AJ for Milsap/Harris/#3, and even then...

12 for 15 is a No for the Jazz as Jimmer does not get pass PHX @ 13

Personally I'd prefer a deal that lands J.Smith, maybe sending Milsap to ATL.

We could use Smith with Granger gone since we would need a starting 3.

PacerGuy
06-17-2011, 10:35 AM
We could use Smith with Granger gone since we would need a starting 3.
Or...
Smith as the starting 4, P.George @ the 3 & Brooks @ the 2?

Banta
06-17-2011, 10:39 AM
Its interesting to see so many people knocking Millsap for lack of defense, as if the Pacers have too much offense and 1 defensive stalwart is the missing piece to their championship puzzle. Millsap is a clear upgrade to the roster. If the Pacers aren't moving up to pick #2 in the draft to nab Williams, then adding Millsap with our pick + something is probably the best possible outcome of the 2011 NBA draft. Guys like Klay Thompson and Marshon Brooks will be gone by #15 and there will be no player greater than or equal to Millsap available at that spot.

A winning team needs a Dale Davis type of player. I'd take Millsap's 17/8 to fill that role.

MyFavMartin
06-17-2011, 11:05 AM
Do we need a superstar? Or, if you consider DG one, another one?

If we want to go the route of Detroit Pistons in how they built their championship team, I wouldn't necessarily call any of Billups, Rip, Tayshaun, Wallace or Sheed a superstar (maybe Billups), but aquiring Harris and Milsap would add to our depth and quality... Of course, I wouldn't want to part with much more than expiring contracts (Posey) and draft picks as I really like our young talent. (I still like Rush but he'd probably be a prime candidate in a trade with Utah who has needs at SG.)

Speed
06-17-2011, 11:17 AM
I bet Utah wants to start discussions with Granger or Hibbert or Paul George plus 15. Pacers aren't willing to and shouldn't be willing to do any of those, not for Milsap, at least. I'd agree.

BornReady
06-17-2011, 11:19 AM
Do we need a superstar? Or, if you consider DG one, another one?

If we want to go the route of Detroit Pistons in how they built their championship team, I wouldn't necessarily call any of Billups, Rip, Tayshaun, Wallace or Sheed a superstar (maybe Billups), but aquiring Harris and Milsap would add to our depth and quality... Of course, I wouldn't want to part with much more than expiring contracts (Posey) and draft picks as I really like our young talent. (I still like Rush but he'd probably be a prime candidate in a trade with Utah who has needs at SG.)

I feel like the Jazz would want a lot more than just expiring contracts and future picks for two key pieces of their team.

Really?
06-17-2011, 11:42 AM
Do we need a superstar? Or, if you consider DG one, another one?

If we want to go the route of Detroit Pistons in how they built their championship team, I wouldn't necessarily call any of Billups, Rip, Tayshaun, Wallace or Sheed a superstar (maybe Billups), but aquiring Harris and Milsap would add to our depth and quality... Of course, I wouldn't want to part with much more than expiring contracts (Posey) and draft picks as I really like our young talent. (I still like Rush but he'd probably be a prime candidate in a trade with Utah who has needs at SG.)

I will say that their team didn't have a superstar but many allstars, Sheed, Wallas, Rip, Billups all allstar caliber players, they were no slouches by any means.

On or team we have one fringe all star currently... I actually think Hibbert will never be one, George Possibly but that is still a stretch. I don't think Millsap's or Harris will be making an allstar team anytime soon either... I think we need many upgrades at various positions.

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 01:30 PM
I bet Utah wants to start discussions with Granger or Hibbert or Paul George plus 15. Pacers aren't willing to and shouldn't be willing to do any of those, not for Milsap, at least. I'd agree.

I would not trade any of those three straight up for Milsap. Not even if they throw in their 2 first rounders. Lose your best player (Granger), quality 5 (Hibbert), or future star (George) for a minimal upgrade at PF. No thanks, I would only be interested in Milsap if he came for cap space.
Now, put Harris in the deal and I might consider it!!!!

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 01:33 PM
Or...
Smith as the starting 4, P.George @ the 3 & Brooks @ the 2?

Smith is a 3. He wants to stand around the perimeter and chuck three's to a gasping crowd who he drives crazy with his stupidity.

Infinite MAN_force
06-17-2011, 02:21 PM
I would trade any combination of the 15th, Rush, and Hansbrough to get Millsap.
I think that could maybe get it done. Our ability to absorb contracts will once again be a big advantage.

Shade
06-17-2011, 02:28 PM
#15 and cap space for Millsap once a hard cap goes into place? ;)

itzryan07
06-17-2011, 02:37 PM
I think Tyler can be our starting PF. last year was basically his rookie season. He played well for us and knowing how hard Tyler works as a player he is gonna work harder.

Taterhead
06-17-2011, 02:37 PM
I will say that their team didn't have a superstar but many allstars, Sheed, Wallas, Rip, Billups all allstar caliber players, they were no slouches by any means.

On or team we have one fringe all star currently... I actually think Hibbert will never be one, George Possibly but that is still a stretch. I don't think Millsap's or Harris will be making an allstar team anytime soon either... I think we need many upgrades at various positions.

I think it's harder to build a team the way Detroit did. A lot of that was dumb luck. Nobody thought Prince, Ben Wallace or even Billups would turn out as good as they did. Most of those guys were outcasts from other teams. And for a group of journeymen to develop that kind of chemistry is extremely rare.

That could be why every other team that has won a title has had a player that was viewed as top 5 in the NBA at the time.

naptownmenace
06-17-2011, 02:47 PM
By reading most of the suggested trades in this thread, it's obvious that so many people have no understanding of the current NBA CBA and rules for making trades.

The Pacers don't have any capspace until July 1st, which is a week after the draft. Any trades made before July 1st much match salary-wise and the Pacers can only acquire up to 125% plus $100,000 of the salary it gives up.

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 02:56 PM
By reading most of the suggested trades in this thread, it's obvious that so many people have no understanding of the current NBA CBA and rules for making trades.

The Pacers don't have any capspace until July 1st, which is a week after the draft. Any trades made before July 1st much match salary-wise and the Pacers can only acquire up to 125% plus $100,000 of the salary it gives up.

Hello! Thats why teams who trade draft picks for players have to wait a couple weeks before announcing it! Now who looks like they dont know much about the CBA?

naptownmenace
06-17-2011, 03:11 PM
Hello! Thats why teams who trade draft picks for players have to wait a couple weeks before announcing it! Now who looks like they dont know much about the CBA?

I'm aware of that - the Jermaine O'Neal trade was just 3 years ago.

However, those types of trades are not likely with a Lockout and new CBA on the horizon. Teams don't know what their salary cap situation is going to be after July 1st and that's why teams are looking to make more trades during the draft this year.

Under the new CBA, whenever its agreed upon, the rules for trades might drastically change and the amount of cap space the Pacers have might be greatly reduced. So making a handshake trade agreement like in years past might not be possible.

PacerHound
06-17-2011, 03:35 PM
You guys think Tyler is going to lay down and rollover and just give up his starting job to some new guy coming in? I don't. Some of these guys are going to look better at a distance than they are when going up against Tyler in practice come fall.

Hicks
06-17-2011, 03:36 PM
By reading most of the suggested trades in this thread, it's obvious that so many people have no understanding of the current NBA CBA and rules for making trades.

The Pacers don't have any capspace until July 1st, which is a week after the draft. Any trades made before July 1st much match salary-wise and the Pacers can only acquire up to 125% plus $100,000 of the salary it gives up.

True, but in years past we made deals that were not legal until the next season started (July 1st), such as our two draft night trades in 2008.

I suppose that might not be possible with the new CBA not in place yet, but perhaps that's still possible to "agree in principal"?

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 03:38 PM
I'm aware of that - the Jermaine O'Neal trade was just 3 years ago.

However, those types of trades are not likely with a Lockout and new CBA on the horizon. Teams don't know what their salary cap situation is going to be after July 1st and that's why teams are looking to make more trades during the draft this year.

Under the new CBA, whenever its agreed upon, the rules for trades might drastically change and the amount of cap space the Pacers have might be greatly reduced. So making a handshake trade agreement like in years past might not be possible.

Saying it might not happen is a legit opinion. But your post seemed like you were taking a shot at others who were looking forward to a trade. Sometimes things do not translate as well in print!

itzryan07
06-17-2011, 03:40 PM
Paul milsap doesnt much of an upgrade to Tyler. There was times last year when Tyler would be the only one playing while the other players give up

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 03:41 PM
You guys think Tyler is going to lay down and rollover and just give up his starting job to some new guy coming in? I don't. Some of these guys are going to look better at a distance than they are when going up against Tyler in practice come fall.

I certainly dont. I also have not heard of a potential trade where we bring in someone who makes us better by replacing him. I dont really want a Milsap and have no desire whatsoever for Josh Smith. I want a bigger, taller, longer, more athletic 4 as a backup. He could sub for Tyler when we need a stop defensively!

Gamble1
06-17-2011, 03:43 PM
I'm aware of that - the Jermaine O'Neal trade was just 3 years ago.

However, those types of trades are not likely with a Lockout and new CBA on the horizon. Teams don't know what their salary cap situation is going to be after July 1st and that's why teams are looking to make more trades during the draft this year.

Under the new CBA, whenever its agreed upon, the rules for trades might drastically change and the amount of cap space the Pacers have might be greatly reduced. So making a handshake trade agreement like in years past might not be possible.
Ya I am not buying that even though it makes some sense to me. I am pretty sure the FO knows that we will be way under the cap regardless and the Jazz situation won't be getting any better even if the new CBA stays the same which it won't.

Gamble1
06-17-2011, 03:47 PM
Paul milsap doesnt much of an upgrade to Tyler. There was times last year when Tyler would be the only one playing while the other players give up
Well thats pretty much Tylers MO but Milsap is an upgrade plan and simple. He also is only signed for 2 more years and has a reasonable contract so nothing should hinder us from a further upgrade if the experiment doesn't work out.

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 03:47 PM
Ya I am not buying that even though it makes some sense to me. I am pretty sure the FO knows that we will be way under the cap regardless and the Jazz situation won't be getting any better even if the new CBA stays the same which it won't.

That is why I am guessing Milsap or Harris could be had for much less than Granger. Collison and a first might be enough to land both of them. Doubt they get a better offer with the uncertainty of the CBA.

Gamble1
06-17-2011, 03:52 PM
That is why I am guessing Milsap or Harris could be had for much less than Granger. Collison and a first might be enough to land both of them. Doubt they get a better offer with the uncertainty of the CBA.
I doubt we could get both of them without giving up Granger but I think we could be one of the few teams to land one of them given the CBA. Also Bird contacted the Jazz during the trade deadline. Misap was one of the players he was interested in.

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 03:57 PM
I doubt we could get both of them without giving up Granger but I think we could be one of the few teams to land one of them given the CBA. Also Bird contacted the Jazz during the trade deadline. Misap was one of the players he was interested in.

I am of the strong opinion that the Pacers could land a very good player with a big contract for very little. Someone will be looking to dump salary and will want to jettison a good player. Last summer teams were sending away good players and "giving" the receiving team a draft pick to take them. Part of the reason was the James, Bosh, Wade, Stoudamire sweepstakes, but I bet we can get a really good player for cap space alone.

Justin Tyme
06-17-2011, 04:23 PM
Hello! Thats why teams who trade draft picks for players have to wait a couple weeks before announcing it! Now who looks like they dont know much about the CBA?


AND w/o a new CBA how long do you think teams are going to go w/o an official trade in place? There is nothing that says a team can't backout with a supposed trade while waiting for a new CBA either. Please stick with what can be done now with the current CBA for putting forth trades. Otherwise, it's fruitless to hope, guess, wish or speculate for getting a trade completed under new rules no one has an idea about.

naptownmenace
06-17-2011, 04:26 PM
Ya I am not buying that even though it makes some sense to me. I am pretty sure the FO knows that we will be way under the cap regardless and the Jazz situation won't be getting any better even if the new CBA stays the same which it won't.

I just don't think many teams will do trades that can only be finalized in the future after a new CBA is hammered out. There's too much uncertainty and deal that looks good under the current CBA might not look good or it may not even be possible under the new CBA.

Most GMs are looking to add players before a Lockout because they want to have a decent roster in place now so they know what they're working with in the event of a very short free agent period. This article explains it much better:



June 12, 2011 · 6:51PM

TREVISO, Italy – NBA executives are increasingly predicting increased trade activity centered around the draft as the looming lockout puts teams on the clock to face the unusual prospect of needing to do an offseason of work within a short time.

“Trades could be explored more,” one front-office veteran said Sunday on the second day of Eurocamp about 20 miles north of Venice, the largest annual international scouting session in preparation of the draft. “Whether that happens or not remains to be seen. But, yeah, I definitely think the lockout could prompt people to make a lot of moves they might ordinarily wait on.”

The concern for teams in this case isn’t the length of the lockout that in all likelihood will begin July 1. The issue is the amount of time they will have once the work stoppage, if it happens, is settled. Or won’t have – if the labor dispute carries deep into the regular season, general managers will have much less time than usual, perhaps just a couple weeks, between the time the lockout is settled and the start of the renovated schedule. Having more of a preferred roster in place by the end of June, rather than the usual schedule of being able to make adjustments throughout the summer, will complete a lot of the work now.

“It could accelerate the process a bit,” one executive said of teams looking to make moves heading into the draft and the June 23 night itself.

Others agree. The premise is especially interesting in this of all years, with a draft so poorly regarded around the league that any picks being moved would be in a buyers’ market. Now, if teams genuinely are getting more aggressive in anticipation of a lockout, the mood changes.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2011/06/12/eurocamp-day-2/

Justin Tyme
06-17-2011, 04:33 PM
That is why I am guessing Milsap or Harris could be had for much less than Granger. Collison and a first might be enough to land both of them. Doubt they get a better offer with the uncertainty of the CBA.

DREAMER! Thanks for the chuckle. I needed it with how today has been going.

naptownmenace
06-17-2011, 04:35 PM
I am of the strong opinion that the Pacers could land a very good player with a big contract for very little. Someone will be looking to dump salary and will want to jettison a good player. Last summer teams were sending away good players and "giving" the receiving team a draft pick to take them. Part of the reason was the James, Bosh, Wade, Stoudamire sweepstakes, but I bet we can get a really good player for cap space alone.

Those teams were all under the salary cap at the time. Once a new CBA is hammered out, I also think the Pacers could make a trade for a good player without having to send much back.

That also leads me to believe that the Pacers aren't going to make any major trades before July 1st. They'll have way more options after the new CBA goes into effect and teams begin slashing payroll to get under the new, lower salary cap.

Justin Tyme
06-17-2011, 04:39 PM
Also Bird contacted the Jazz during the trade deadline. Misap was one of the players he was interested in.


Got a link to verify your statement? I'd really be interested in reading it. If true, it sheds some new light on what maybe Bird is thinking for the future.

CableKC
06-17-2011, 04:43 PM
Can someone explain to me how the stoppage affects the Pacers ability to use the 2011-2012 Capspace that they have and/or make trades?

From what I'm reading, my impression is that we're not in a great position because of the old CBA rules or what not. :confused:

Justin Tyme
06-17-2011, 04:48 PM
Another vote for Devin Harris. I'd trade Collison + Posey (young player and cap relief) for him.



I'll 2nd that. I'd even throw in a Euro sweetner of either Lorbek/Stanko or pick #42 if necessary.

I'd even be inclined to expand this trade to Granger, Collison, Posey, and #15 for Milsap, Harris, #3, and #20.

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 05:01 PM
DREAMER! Thanks for the chuckle. I needed it with how today has been going.

They will not get back equal value for either of those guys. And you should think things thru before criticizing.

Milsap for our 1st? Utah would do that
Collison for Harris? Utah would jump at that. (thats what you said in your post)

Justin Tyme
06-17-2011, 05:02 PM
Can someone explain to me how the stoppage affects the Pacers ability to use the 2011-2012 Capspace that they have and/or make trades?

From what I'm reading, my impression is that we're not in a great position because of the old CBA rules or what not. :confused:


Non of the expirings expire until after June 30. July 1 at present time there is no new CBA in place. You can only work with what you have that isn't going to expire. Dun, Solo, Foster, Ford, and McBob can't be traded since they are under the present CBA, nor does their expirings kick into capspace until a new CBA is in effect. B/c of that, it hinders what what players the Pacers have available that can be traded.

Granger
Hibbert
Collison
PG
Dahntay
Price
Hans
Rush
Posey
Stephenson

Gamble1
06-17-2011, 05:02 PM
Got a link to verify your statement? I'd really be interested in reading it. If true, it sheds some new light on what maybe Bird is thinking for the future.
I heard Mike Wells confirm this on the radio that Bird did inquire about Milsap and Jefferson.

Sorry not everything is in print. :-p

http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/2011/02/who-can-the-pacers-trade/
Regardless, if the Pacers are going to make a move (and Mike Wells expects them to call the now-fire-selling Utah Jazz about Paul Millsap or Al Jefferson (http://twitter.com/MikeWellsNBA/status/40475074259587072)), it would be helpful to know exactly what they have to offer. They of course can make every player on the roster available (*cough* Brandon Rush *cough*)

PacerGuy
06-17-2011, 05:03 PM
I'll 2nd that. I'd even throw in a Euro sweetner of either Lorbek/Stanko or pick #42 if necessary.

I'd even be inclined to expand this trade to Granger, Collison, Posey, and #15 for Milsap, Harris, #3, and #20.

I think that is a bit high, I bet you could get that for less, say:
Danny, Brandon, Price, n/y 1st for Harris, Milsap, #3.

This saves them over 2 mil + cost of #3 (4 mil'ish), + almost 6 mil n/y if they let Brandon & Price walk. They get Jimmer @ 12. Not sure who we go for @ 3, Kanter? Without a sure #3, I'm not sure.

Gamble1
06-17-2011, 05:13 PM
In this draft I wouldn't even consider this.

Justin Tyme
06-17-2011, 05:23 PM
They will not get back equal value for either of those guys.


Seriously, how can you possibly make that statement. You can't possibly know that for a fact.

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 05:24 PM
Seriously, how can you possibly make that statement. You can't possibly know that for a fact.

Once a player is on the block, everyone tries to low-ball. Now, thanks to the story, everyone knows Utah wants to unload them. GM's dont get paid big bucks to overpay for decent players like those two.

Doddage
06-17-2011, 05:28 PM
Granger + 15th pick for Millsap + 3rd pick + 12 pick
That would be sexy. Grab Kanter with #3 and Marshon Brooks with #12. Use our 2nd rounder to grab a backup PG like Shelvin Mack.

Collison/Mack
Dahntay/Brooks
George/Rush
Millsap/Hansbrough
Hibbert/Kanter

:drool:

O'Braindead
06-17-2011, 05:31 PM
^That team doesn't look very good, at all. IMO, of course.

They have no guy who can score 20 points a night, and if we make Milsap our main scorer, that is setting him up for failure. George isn't ready to handle big minutes and be expected to consistently score, and that is going to be a very inconsistent bench.

Doddage
06-17-2011, 05:35 PM
^That team doesn't look very good, at all. IMO, of course.

They have no guy who can score 20 points a night, and if we make Milsap our main scorer, that is setting him up for failure. George isn't ready to handle big minutes and be expected to consistently score, and that is going to be a very inconsistent bench.
It'd be a force defensively and the scoring would be done by committee as opposed to relying on one single person. Collison, George, Millsap, and Hibbert all have the ability to score. Bring Brooks off the bench and you'll have a reasonable number of options for offense.

Justin Tyme
06-17-2011, 05:49 PM
I think that is a bit high, I bet you could get that for less, say:
Danny, Brandon, Price, n/y 1st for Harris, Milsap, #3.

This saves them over 2 mil + cost of #3 (4 mil'ish), + almost 6 mil n/y if they let Brandon & Price walk. They get Jimmer @ 12. Not sure who we go for @ 3, Kanter? Without a sure #3, I'm not sure.


I really don't think it would. If I was the Jazz, I'd laugh and hang up. Rush & Price? Who truly wants them? They are nothing but basically trade fodder. Bird hasn't been able to unload Rush in 2 years of trying. Whoopie, next years 1st could be a #16-18 pick. I just don't see Utah interested in that trade at all. You really think Granger and the poopoo platter is worth Milsap, Harris, and possible Derrick Williams/Knight? I just don't see it. Would I do the trade if I was Bird? In a second!!!

yoadknux
06-17-2011, 05:57 PM
It'd be a force defensively and the scoring would be done by committee as opposed to relying on one single person. Collison, George, Millsap, and Hibbert all have the ability to score. Bring Brooks off the bench and you'll have a reasonable number of options for offense.
If Paul Millsap is your best player, you're in serious trouble. And this is the case here...

CooperManning
06-17-2011, 06:33 PM
Pretend this trade works CBA/cap-wise, would you consider doing it?

Collison + Tyler + #15 for Milsap and #3

B. Knight/PG/Granger/Millsap/Hibbert

pacer4ever
06-17-2011, 06:34 PM
Pretend this trade works CBA/cap-wise, would you consider doing it?

Collison + Tyler + #15 for Milsap and #3

B. Knight/PG/Granger/Millsap/Hibbert

I'm not sure.

I don't like Brandon Knight he is overrated as of now IMO so no.

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 07:14 PM
I don't like Brandon Knight he is overrated as of now IMO so no.

I agree = No way
Besides, now that everyone knows Utah is shopping Milsap and Harris, their value just went down.

Shade
06-17-2011, 07:51 PM
Milsap, if he's making 8 like Ive seen is worth that easily, imo.

Actually, I believe he's pegged to make 6.7 next season.

spreedom
06-17-2011, 08:07 PM
If we could get either/both of these guys without trading our core of Danny/PG24/Hibbert it would be a significant upgrade, if you ask me. Millsap may have some limitations but he is head and shoulders above every PF on our roster and Devin would be the best PG we've had since Mark Jackson.

PacerGuy
06-17-2011, 08:22 PM
I really don't think it would. If I was the Jazz, I'd laugh and hang up. Rush & Price? Who truly wants them? They are nothing but basically trade fodder. Bird hasn't been able to unload Rush in 2 years of trying. Whoopie, next years 1st could be a #16-18 pick. I just don't see Utah interested in that trade at all. You really think Granger and the poopoo platter is worth Milsap, Harris, and possible Derrick Williams/Knight? I just don't see it. Would I do the trade if I was Bird? In a second!!!
:blush: I meant #15 (I'm a bad phone poster), plus n/y 2nd.
My point was no DC included. Rush & Price fit 2 needs, 1) short term fill gaps, 2) cap space n/y. There is a significant savings to them over theife of the deals.

bigdawg9292
06-17-2011, 08:30 PM
If we could get either/both of these guys without trading our core of Danny/PG24/Hibbert it would be a significant upgrade, if you ask me. Millsap may have some limitations but he is head and shoulders above every PF on our roster and Devin would be the best PG we've had since Mark Jackson.

I'm not sure if I share your love for Paul Millsap. He's definitely capable of putting up better numbers than Hansbrough RIGHT NOW, but he appears to share many of his limitations at a significantly higher cap figure. I'd be happy to watch Hansbrough continue to develop (last year was his first real season and he made some serious strides) and it wouldn't surprise me to see him get as good as Millsap.

Anthem
06-17-2011, 08:39 PM
I don't understand why people go out of their way to include Granger in a trade that doesn't require him.

Justin Tyme
06-17-2011, 09:31 PM
I agree = No way
Besides, now that everyone knows Utah is shopping Milsap and Harris, their value just went down.


Gone down from what? Explain what their value was a few days ago and what their value is now since someone said Utah is "thinking" about trading them. Utah isn't in a fire sale where they have to trade either one.

Everyone knew the Pacers had to trade Artest and teams lowball the Pacers, but the Pacers ended up with good value for Artest. The Pacers orignally had him traded for Maggette until Pacers doctors said no. He was traded for Peja. Both had value, and Bird got what he wanted... Peja. He wanted to trade Artest for Peja the year b4, so he got the value he originally wanted.

Does Granger's value go down everytime his name is linked to a trade? Just b/c a team might consider trading a player doesn't mean that players value drops. If either one or both had demanded a trade, their value might slip, but to my knowledge neither has. Personally IMO, I'm not sure Utah even knows what direction it wants to go. Whether they want add pieces to what they have, or blow it up and go with youth.

Justin Tyme
06-17-2011, 09:45 PM
I don't understand why people go out of their way to include Granger in a trade that doesn't require him.


With still being under the current CBA, how does the Pacers acquire Milsap and Harris without giving value in return for them? There is no capspace to work with, only 10 current players of which Granger has the most value.

I don't understand why Pacer fans constantly under value other teams players, and expect to get other teams players for practically nothing while wanting a king's ransom for Pacer players.

troyc11a
06-17-2011, 09:52 PM
Gone down from what? Explain what their value was a few days ago and what their value is now since someone said Utah is "thinking" about trading them. Utah isn't in a fire sale where they have to trade either one.

Everyone knew the Pacers had to trade Artest and teams lowball the Pacers, but the Pacers ended up with good value for Artest. The Pacers orignally had him traded for Maggette until Pacers doctors said no. He was traded for Peja. Both had value, and Bird got what he wanted... Peja. He wanted to trade Artest for Peja the year b4, so he got the value he originally wanted.

Does Granger's value go down everytime his name is linked to a trade? Just b/c a team might consider trading a player doesn't mean that players value drops. If either one or both had demanded a trade, their value might slip, but to my knowledge neither has. Personally IMO, I'm not sure Utah even knows what direction it wants to go. Whether they want add pieces to what they have, or blow it up and go with youth.

The main difference is that nobody from the pacers have ever said Granger is available. Once it is known he is, nobody will want to give as much for him.
In regards to Milsap and Harris, it is not like they have a ton of value anyway. I would not even think of trading Granger for both of them.

Anthem
06-19-2011, 08:33 AM
With still being under the current CBA, how does the Pacers acquire Milsap and Harris without giving value in return for them? There is no capspace to work with, only 10 current players of which Granger has the most value.
You... you think we should be trading Granger to make the cap numbers work?

Holy cow, now I've heard everything.

PacerGuy
06-19-2011, 09:39 AM
The main difference is that nobody from the pacers have ever said Granger is available. Once it is known he is, nobody will want to give as much for him.
In regards to Milsap and Harris, it is not like they have a ton of value anyway. I would not even think of trading Granger for both of them.

Is Granger/D.Jones for Milsap/Harris/#12 actually not bad deal.

Pro's:-Harris is a very solid, bigger b/u PG to DC (Yes I still start DC)
-Milsap, while a bit repetative to Tyler, is solid & holds value for furure deals.
-#12: Draft Singlrton, a Defensive specialist SF
-Moves DJ, creates more cap & smaller contracts add flexibility.
Con's:
-Neither Milsap or Harris are losk starters, so why trade our #1 guy?
-#12 vs #3? Only Kanter or Vesey make me want #3 vs. #12 (Singleton).
-Pacers Scoring? This is a legitimate issue, & maybe the reason we pass.
-Should we get Hayward too? Not sure Utah goes for that.

I started writing in favor, but now I'm not sure. I'm kinda growing on the idea of P.George @ the starting 2 w/ Brooks as b/u. Now, if Milsap could be packaged in a bigger deal to get J.Smith, then I do it. Adding J.Smith & Singleton wouls be killer defensively.

Justin Tyme
06-19-2011, 10:35 AM
You... you think we should be trading Granger to make the cap numbers work?

Holy cow, now I've heard everything.



Of all the posters on this board, I'd never would have imagined you bailing out on answering my question! If you didn't want or felt it unnecessary to answer the question, silence is the always a good avenue to use. Thank you and have wonderful Father's Day Sunday.

xBulletproof
06-19-2011, 10:39 AM
maybe the reason we pass.
-Should we get Hayward too? Not sure Utah goes for that.

I severely doubt Utah goes for Harris/Milsap for Granger. Let alone the #12 pick, or the #9 pick from last year who shows flashes of promise.

I just can't see it.

vnzla81
06-19-2011, 10:47 AM
Millsap and Harris for Danny and 15th? :signit:

Justin Tyme
06-19-2011, 12:24 PM
Millsap and Harris for Danny and 15th? :signit:


Pass, Granger is worth more than that. I wouldn't be opposed to Granger and #15 for Milsap, Harris, and #3. That should be good value in return for Granger. You get a starting PF and at worse a GOOD b/u PG in Harris plus a player like Leonard, Vesely, Kanter, Valanciunas. You could even try to trade the #3 to a team like Washington, Charlotte, or Houston for 2 1st round picks and get a couple nice players. I just see alot of opportunities if this trade would come fruitition.

PacerGuy
06-19-2011, 01:16 PM
I severely doubt Utah goes for Harris/Milsap for Granger. Let alone the #12 pick, or the #9 pick from last year who shows flashes of promise.

I just can't see it.
IMO Granger is worth more then just Milsap & Harris alone.
I did not say Hayward SHOULD be included, I listed it in as a con, as in the thought "Do we need him because we need a replacement 3", because while he would be nice, I don't see him as a needed piece here.
IMO Danny, D.Jones for Milsap, Harris, #12 is close.

Hicks
06-19-2011, 01:30 PM
Maybe I haven't paid close enough attention to Harris lately, but I think Danny and #15 for Devin and Paul and #12 sounds pretty good to me. Maybe those two aren't as good as I thought they were, though.

vnzla81
06-19-2011, 01:36 PM
Maybe I haven't paid close enough attention to Harris lately, but I think Danny and #15 for Devin and Paul and #12 sounds pretty good to me. Maybe those two aren't as good as I thought they were, though.

People forget that like Danny Harris is a one time all star, he could be our starter hands down, getting Harris and Milsap for Danny would be an steal.

Kraft
06-19-2011, 02:03 PM
Pass, Granger is worth more than that. I wouldn't be opposed to Granger and #15 for Milsap, Harris, and #3. That should be good value in return for Granger.

This is something I'd do -- even if the Jazz wouldn't. Collison instead of No. 15 might make more sense for both sides.