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LA_Confidential
06-15-2011, 11:31 PM
The Lance bashing is getting pretty lame, so quick poll.

If Lance were to make a positive contribution to the Pacers success next season, would you feel like an ***?

pacer4ever
06-15-2011, 11:31 PM
:inbeforethelock:

daschysta
06-15-2011, 11:34 PM
Most people don't bash him for his basketball skills...

In all likelyhood if he makes a positive contribution over the course of the next season he's ceased being a massive disruption (by all accounts), grown up a little, and done something like ya know, not getting arrested or suspended.

If he does those things I see no reason why most of the board wouldn't root for him or cheer him on or hope he suceeds.

Worst case he looks amazing and his trade value skyrockets. Noone wants him to look bad.

Heisenberg
06-15-2011, 11:35 PM
Apparently he's spending the offseason in Indy working out. High five Lance!

pacer4ever
06-15-2011, 11:38 PM
Apparently he's spending the offseason in Indy working out. High five Lance!

i dont know if his family still has a house in NY im pretty sure his dad said they are living here full time now. Much cheaper than NYC.

Heisenberg
06-15-2011, 11:40 PM
i dont know if his family still has a house in NY im pretty sure his dad said they are living here full time now. Much cheaper than NYC.
Every time I hear about Lance and his brood moving here permanently I get flashbacks to Artest and his dog feces infested house.

LA_Confidential
06-15-2011, 11:44 PM
:inbeforethelock:

:haterade:

IndySDExport
06-15-2011, 11:57 PM
No. Based on his attitude and actions, he deserves the criticism he garnered.

This is not to say that he can't change his ways, grow and redeem himself. I would love to see it. That is up to him though. And for me, it will take more than just skills on the court. He needs to grow up period. If he does that, I will congratulate him.

Until then, he has earned the kick in the behind the team and fans have given him. I certainly won't feel like an *** for criticizing his nonsense behavior.

.

Constellations
06-16-2011, 12:05 AM
Not at all. He gave us the reasons to bash him. Sure he's a talented basketball player, we never bashed him for that, it's his off-court skills that didn't please everyone so well.

Trophy
06-16-2011, 12:06 AM
I'd like for Vogel to give him consistent minutes next season. Give him AJ's minutes or even Brandon's minutes (if he's actually still here).

Lance is a combo guard so I don't really care what we use him at.

Also as far as his character goes, if he's been hanging out and working out in Indy and with the players in the community, that's a great way for him to mature.

I saw he was at the Indianapolis Zoo for community service.

Good to see.

I want this work. I want him to stay here and be a good guy because he's a damn good baller.

itzryan07
06-16-2011, 01:38 AM
i think he is going to prove everybody wrong this year. He has to be somewhat great if Larry praises him so much. And hearing Clark Kellog say that he has come along way with his maturity sounds nothing but good for the team

jpatt34
06-16-2011, 03:15 AM
I'm not justifying his problems but I always thought if a kid kept getting in trouble you give them something to do to keep him away from it. He's the most explosive offensive player we have. Give him a chance on the court and watch his problems off the court go away. I've seen this time after time.

judicata
06-16-2011, 04:05 AM
I will definitely feel like an *** because putting a ball in to a hoop eliminates all possible questions about a man's character.

Heisenberg
06-16-2011, 06:43 AM
I'm not justifying his problems but I always thought if a kid kept getting in trouble you give them something to do to keep him away from it. He's the most explosive offensive player we have. Give him a chance on the court and watch his problems off the court go away. I've seen this time after time.
Sure you give them other (high 6 figure income) options, it's on them to take them. He's not "explosive." PG, McBob, and maybe Infenro are a good ways above anyone else on the roster in that regard, if we're using the actual definition anyway. Not that being "explosive" matters.

I'd like examples on the whole "put him on the floor and watch" angle. Neither's related to the other. Don't know Lance personally at all, don't know what he's going to do with an almost annual million dollar income, but to say "hey play him, that'll sort him out?" C'mon, you know that makes no sense.

Frankly, I just wouldn't mind the Lance experiment being over because the dude's a very limited 2nd round pick with clear attitude problems. He gets his head together elsewhere, good for him, wish him luck. Honestly step back and ask yourself what the guy can offer that couldn't be easily found every single offseason w/o the headaches and PR problems. Just think some of his supporters are far overestimating his talent; this ain't the And 1 tour. Didn't want him at draft time, don't want him now.

BRushWithDeath
06-16-2011, 07:53 AM
If Lance were to make a positive contribution to the Pacers success next season, would you feel like an ***?

Will I feel like an ***? Not in the slightest bit.

Will I feel surprised. Immensely.

In my opinion, his talent level is not nearly high enough to make up for his lack of a brain. Obviously, Bird thinks it is. Hopefully he's right.

sportfireman
06-16-2011, 08:21 AM
Is it just me but anytime I see a new Lance thread. I first think "crap what has he done now?". So glad he hasn't done anything.

90'sNBARocked
06-16-2011, 08:28 AM
i dont know if his family still has a house in NY im pretty sure his dad said they are living here full time now. Much cheaper than NYC.

Best believe they kept a spot in Brooklyn

NO ONE leaves an appartment with rent control, NO ONE

Some aunt, cousin , uncle whatever is there

:)

90'sNBARocked
06-16-2011, 08:29 AM
Its simply amazing to me how many people make assumptions and or judgements of one's charcture, without actually having met that individual

Brooklyn.....we go hard

90'sNBARocked
06-16-2011, 08:30 AM
Every time I hear about Lance and his brood moving here permanently I get flashbacks to Artest and his dog feces infested house.

ewww disgusting

meaning he had dog feces all around the house he lived in?

throw up

PR07
06-16-2011, 09:24 AM
I don't think anyone here is actively rooting against Lance. We just don't want anymore headaches or distractions, as we've been there...done that. If he can mature both on and off the court, the Pacers will have another asset at their disposal.

90'sNBARocked
06-16-2011, 10:11 AM
I don't think anyone here is actively rooting against Lance. We just don't want anymore headaches or distractions, as we've been there...done that. If he can mature both on and off the court, the Pacers will have another asset at their disposal.

well said my friend

:)

Speed
06-16-2011, 10:17 AM
Yes, I'd feel like an *** for a low risk 2nd round pick becoming a big part of the Pacers future because I questioned his off court decisions he made that include an arrest, solicitation, and team disciplinary actions, in a 9 month period. I don't how you couldn't.

LA_Confidential
06-16-2011, 10:36 AM
I'd like to thank all for their responses to the question. Im happy this wasnt viewed as a fire starter thread. I just got a little tired of all the Lance-Lashing :D.

I truly believe that this kid has potential to be something that we can be proud of on and off the court as Pacers fans. He was truly a minimum risk/high reward pick by Bird and I have faith that the kid is taking the right steps in the growth process. It will take some time for most of us to get over his shortcomings as a misguided 19 year old rookie, but thats just the first chapter of the story.

With that being said, I definitely would feel like an *** if he screws up any further. :laugh:

Much Love PD!

90'sNBARocked
06-16-2011, 10:46 AM
I'd like to thank all for their responses to the question. Im happy this wasnt viewed as a fire starter thread. I just got a little tired of all the Lance-Lashing :D.

I truly believe that this kid has potential to be something that we can be proud of on and off the court as Pacers fans. He was truly a minimum risk/high reward pick by Bird and I have faith that the kid is taking the right steps in the growth process. It will take some time for most of us to get over his shortcomings as a misguided 19 year old rookie, but thats just the first chapter of the story.

With that being said, I definitely would feel like an *** if he screws up any further. :laugh:

Much Love PD!

So what freakin state is "La La land" in?

:)

LA_Confidential
06-16-2011, 10:56 AM
So what freakin state is "La La land" in?

:)

Its in the state of mind. I thought u were from Brooklyn. If so, arent u a Jigga fan? Remember the song La La La on the Bad Boys 2 Soundtrack? Well there u have it.

Justin Tyme
06-16-2011, 10:57 AM
Frankly, I just wouldn't mind the Lance experiment being over. 2nd round pick with clear attitude problems. He gets his head together elsewhere, good for him, wish him luck. Honestly step back and ask yourself what the guy can offer that couldn't be easily found every single offseason w/o the headaches and PR problems. Just think some of his supporters are far overestimating his talent; this ain't the And 1 tour. Didn't want him at draft time, don't want him now.



I thanked you for this.

I've been saying this the last few days, why draft Brooks, Burkes, or Jimmer when you have this world potential already in Stephenson? It doesn't make sense. Are they ALL that much better than Stephenson with his world of potential? Or is Stephenson really not all that great, but in essence a poor draft pick? Bird took a flyer on Stephenson like he did White and Williams with the same results.

MrHale
06-16-2011, 11:11 AM
I thanked you for this.

I've been saying this the last few days, why draft Brooks, Burkes, or Jimmer when you have this world potential already in Stephenson? It doesn't make sense. Are they ALL that much better than Stephenson with his world of potential? Or is Stephenson really not all that great, but in essence a poor draft pick? Bird took a flyer on Stephenson like he did White and Williams with the same results.

he was a rookie u dont know what his results will be in the future u cant just say hes a bad draft pick and compare him to other busts, and in my opinion ill take a 2nd rounder with world potential anyday. we all know he has talent, we all know he has character issues, be a total waste to just to write him off now. if he doesnt come to anything after couple years, big deal its a 2nd round pick happens all the time...

Justin Tyme
06-16-2011, 02:28 PM
he was a rookie u dont know what his results will be in the future u cant just say hes a bad draft pick and compare him to other busts, and in my opinion ill take a 2nd rounder with world potential anyday. we all know he has talent, we all know he has character issues, be a total waste to just to write him off now. if he doesnt come to anything after couple years, big deal its a 2nd round pick happens all the time...


A wasted pick is just that... a wasted pick. I'm tired of hearing Stephenson is just a 2nd rd pick so it's no big deal. It is a big deal if he's a wasted pick when someone else could have been chosen.

I still feel Lorbek and Stanko are wasted picks until they actually play in a Pacers uni and "produce." As far as I'm concerned, their true value maybe only as sweetner in a future trade.

pacer4ever
06-16-2011, 02:30 PM
A wasted pick is just that... a wasted pick. I'm tired of hearing Stephenson is just a 2nd rd pick so it's no big deal. It is a big deal if he's a wasted pick when someone else could have been chosen.

I still feel Lorbek and Stanko are wasted picks until they actually play in a Pacers uni and "produce." As far as I'm concerned, their true value maybe only as sweetner in a future trade.

if you think it is a wasted pick you have no concept of what 2nd round picks are suppose to be.

Natston
06-16-2011, 02:34 PM
The Lance bashing is getting pretty lame, so quick poll.

If Lance were to make a positive contribution to the Pacers success next season, would you feel like an ***?

A giant ***... that has a finger inserted into it...

pacer4ever
06-16-2011, 02:35 PM
where is the poll?

90'sNBARocked
06-16-2011, 03:34 PM
Its in the state of mind. I thought u were from Brooklyn. If so, arent u a Jigga fan? Remember the song La La La on the Bad Boys 2 Soundtrack? Well there u have it.

Yes but Jigga is down with lumanati :eek:

even though he is from Queens got to go with NAS

no if we talkin Biggie thats a whole differnet story :)

plus it was "keep smokin that La La La"

:)

BRushWithDeath
06-16-2011, 03:40 PM
Its simply amazing to me how many people make assumptions and or judgements of one's charcture, without actually having met that individual

Brooklyn.....we go hard

Some of us have met this individual.

Justin Tyme
06-16-2011, 05:50 PM
if you think it is a wasted pick you have no concept of what 2nd round picks are suppose to be.


2nd round picks are for those players who aren't deemed good enough to be drafted in the 1st round. Being a 2nd round pick doesn't necessitate it being a nothing more than a possible roster filler who will be out of the league in 2-3 years especially when that player was viewed as a 1st round pick like Stephenson and White were.

I keep going back to if "born ready" being so great, why are the Pacers looking at Brooks, Burks, and Jimmer? Go do some PD archives research on last years drafting of Stephenson since you weren't a member when he was drafted. You would have thought from the FO and posters he was the "2nd coming". You still get the FO BS about how great he is. I'm feeling "born ready" just ain't got the goods to be that good, why else would you look for something you supposedly already have? If he's not, then he was a wasted pick. Waste not, want not!

pacer4ever
06-16-2011, 06:05 PM
2nd round picks are for those players who aren't deemed good enough to be drafted in the 1st round. Being a 2nd round pick doesn't necessitate it being a nothing more than a possible roster filler who will be out of the league in 2-3 years especially when that player was viewed as a 1st round pick like Stephenson and White were.

I keep going back to if "born ready" being so great, why are the Pacers looking at Brooks, Burks, and Jimmer? Go do some PD archives research on last years drafting of Stephenson since you weren't a member when he was drafted. You would have thought from the FO and posters he was the "2nd coming". You still get the FO BS about how great he is. I'm feeling "born ready" just ain't got the goods to be that good, why else would you look for something you supposedly already have? If he's not, then he was a wasted pick. Waste not, want not!

No the 2nd IMO is where you take a flyer on a guy with potential like a Monta Ellis, Lance, Jermany Tyler ect a guy with talent but has a sketchy back round in the 2nd round you don't have to guaranteed them a contract so perfect gamble. or a guy who slipped like Boozer or Blair. Or you take a developmental project like Manu, Hassin Whitside, Vardardo ,Jerome Jordan ect. and hope they pan out. Some times you get lucky other times you don't. Some times you get really like and guys like AJ Price, Blair who slipped a lot fall.


EDIT

Lance is a project because of his back round and because they are trying to play him at pg. Which is a huge mistake he has been a wing his whole life. Lance missed all of last season due to his court case so we don't know how good he is yet or if he is "born ready" this season will tell a lot about him. Lance was worth the gamble we wont know for a few years if he will pan out but he was a decent pick and a good project with potential that incident in NY really messed up his whole season for him.

Pacersalltheway10
06-16-2011, 06:28 PM
Some of us have met this individual.

And he was one of the nicest guys I've met.

Sookie
06-16-2011, 06:29 PM
2nd round picks are for those players who aren't deemed good enough to be drafted in the 1st round. Being a 2nd round pick doesn't necessitate it being a nothing more than a possible roster filler who will be out of the league in 2-3 years especially when that player was viewed as a 1st round pick like Stephenson and White were.

I keep going back to if "born ready" being so great, why are the Pacers looking at Brooks, Burks, and Jimmer? Go do some PD archives research on last years drafting of Stephenson since you weren't a member when he was drafted. You would have thought from the FO and posters he was the "2nd coming". You still get the FO BS about how great he is. I'm feeling "born ready" just ain't got the goods to be that good, why else would you look for something you supposedly already have? If he's not, then he was a wasted pick. Waste not, want not!

BPA

Really, if Jimmer is around at 15, he's the best player available, and you take him. Simple as that.

Also, regardless of how I..or anyone else..really feels about Lance, I don't think he was a poor second round pick. The FO seems to see a lot of potential there. And if they are correct, then it's a high risk high reward type of scenario...except..in this case..because he's a cheap second round pick, the risk is a lot lower than the reward. (Guaranteeing his contract..on the other hand..)

90'sNBARocked
06-16-2011, 06:43 PM
Some of us have met this individual.

Met as in "Hi I am so and so" to "Hi Iam Lance"

or met and/or known long enough intamately to know their true charcture?

90'sNBARocked
06-16-2011, 06:43 PM
And he was one of the nicest guys I've met.

Greatly appreciated :)

90'sNBARocked
06-16-2011, 06:45 PM
BPA

Really, if Jimmer is around at 15, he's the best player available, and you take him. Simple as that.

Also, regardless of how I..or anyone else..really feels about Lance, I don't think he was a poor second round pick. The FO seems to see a lot of potential there. And if they are correct, then it's a high risk high reward type of scenario...except..in this case..because he's a cheap second round pick, the risk is a lot lower than the reward. (Guaranteeing his contract..on the other hand..)

Sook, its killin me man

Who got the rebound on your Avatar? Did shorty box her out and snatch the board?

Kstat
06-16-2011, 07:05 PM
Sook, its killin me man

Who got the rebound on your Avatar? Did shorty box her out and snatch the board?

That's not the point. The taller one (margo dydek) recently died.

ilive4sports
06-16-2011, 07:45 PM
And he was one of the nicest guys I've met.

And people have said the same thing about Ron Artest before too. Nice guys make bonehead decisions all the time. Lance seems to more often than others.

Until Lance shows us something good on the court he will get bashed.

pacer4ever
06-16-2011, 07:53 PM
And people have said the same thing about Ron Artest before too. Nice guys make bonehead decisions all the time. Lance seems to more often than others.

Until Lance shows us something good on the court he will get bashed.

Ron still is one of the nicest guys but i mean really anyone could of blown up in the brawl situation. All the other stuff i cant really say anything except he is bipolar.

Trophy
06-16-2011, 08:02 PM
I met Lance the second game of last season when we played the Bobcats.

He couldn't be any nicer. I wished him the best of luck and we're looking forward to seeing you tear it up. He's a quiet guy and when he's getting hyper on the bench, I don't think it's to **** anyone off. He has a lot of energy in him.

I don't know. I feel like he's a secret weapon we haven't discovered yet. This guy brings the true blood and guts way of basketball and he has what you want from a star combo guard.

Bird seems to feel the same way and I'm glad. This can possibly turn out to be one of the best drafts we've had between him and Paul.

It's only a matter of time.

90'sNBARocked
06-16-2011, 08:34 PM
That's not the point. The taller one (margo dydek) recently died.

really? rip was it related to some chromosone issue?

Justin Tyme
06-16-2011, 08:59 PM
BPA

Really, if Jimmer is around at 15, he's the best player available, and you take him. Simple as that.

Also, regardless of how I..or anyone else..really feels about Lance, I don't think he was a poor second round pick. The FO seems to see a lot of potential there. And if they are correct, then it's a high risk high reward type of scenario...except..in this case..because he's a cheap second round pick, the risk is a lot lower than the reward. (Guaranteeing his contract..on the other hand..)


BPA isn't always the best avenue to take. Sometimes the need is more important. Not to mention who says who the BPA is. That can be very debateable. IF the Hawks had picked for need, they would have had CP3. Even Bird has admitted he should have picked Rondo instead of Shawne Williams. The Pacers need was a PG not a forward with potential.

Sookie
06-16-2011, 09:08 PM
Sook, its killin me man

Who got the rebound on your Avatar? Did shorty box her out and snatch the board?

I think someone else entirely got the rebound. But yea, the taller one died recently. (Died because of heart problems. I actually think she was pregnant at the time. Really sad.) And it's probably my favorite basketball picture of all time.

90'sNBARocked
06-16-2011, 10:04 PM
I think someone else entirely got the rebound. But yea, the taller one died recently. (Died because of heart problems. I actually think she was pregnant at the time. Really sad.) And it's probably my favorite basketball picture of all time.

Its a really great picture, RIP

jpatt34
06-17-2011, 08:55 AM
Sure you give them other (high 6 figure income) options, it's on them to take them. He's not "explosive." PG, McBob, and maybe Infenro are a good ways above anyone else on the roster in that regard, if we're using the actual definition anyway. Not that being "explosive" matters.

I'd like examples on the whole "put him on the floor and watch" angle. Neither's related to the other. Don't know Lance personally at all, don't know what he's going to do with an almost annual million dollar income, but to say "hey play him, that'll sort him out?" C'mon, you know that makes no sense.

Frankly, I just wouldn't mind the Lance experiment being over because the dude's a very limited 2nd round pick with clear attitude problems. He gets his head together elsewhere, good for him, wish him luck. Honestly step back and ask yourself what the guy can offer that couldn't be easily found every single offseason w/o the headaches and PR problems. Just think some of his supporters are far overestimating his talent; this ain't the And 1 tour. Didn't want him at draft time, don't want him now.

When I say explosive I mean his scoring ability not his athletic ability. And it makes perfect sense to give someone with nothing to do thats that young and energetic some type of minutes. I'm not saying 6th man but something. Him and Tyler gave me goosebumps last season with that pick and roll. it was perfect every time whether he passed or slashed to the rim. He has a lot to build on

Taterhead
06-17-2011, 09:40 AM
If you're a person who makes some mistakes in life, then you tend to get outcast by certain types. It's nothing new. People love to point fingers and make assumptions based off small bits of information. It's so easy, and people love easy. Even if it makes them look ignorant.

Lance has come from a place that most people on this board would be scared to even drive through. And he has been surrounded by certain things that most have no clue about. And because of that there are some personality flaws with him. That doesn't mean he is a bad person at all. People have to be given a chance at redemption. Especially when they are as young as he is.

But the thing that bothers me most is the crowd who pretends he isn't incredibly talented. Larry Bird disagrees. I'll take his opinion along with my own two eyes all day.




Lance is a project because of his back round and because they are trying to play him at pg. Which is a huge mistake he has been a wing his whole life.

Lance played PG all through HS, and won 4 state titles. He played SG one year at Cincy, hardly his whole life.

90'sNBARocked
06-17-2011, 09:44 AM
If you're a person who makes some mistakes in life, then you tend to get outcast by certain types. It's nothing new. People love to point fingers and make assumptions based off small bits of information. It's so easy, and people love easy. Even if it makes them look ignorant.

Lance has come from a place that most people on this board would be scared to even drive through. And he has been surrounded by certain things that most have no clue about. And because of that there are some personality flaws with him. That doesn't mean he is a bad person at all. People have to be given a chance at redemption. Especially when they are as young as he is.

But the thing that bothers me most is the crowd who pretends he isn't incredibly talented. Larry Bird disagrees. I'll take his opinion along with my own two eyes all day.

Its really not as bad as you would think. HE is from Coney Island which borders another neighborhod BAy Ridge which has a large European(Russian) population. See people of all races there

Now, if you run up in the projects on Surf Ave , thats a whole different story


especially at night :)

Taterhead
06-17-2011, 09:50 AM
Its really not as bad as you would think. HE is from Coney Island which borders another neighborhod BAy Ridge which has a large European(Russian) population. See people of all races there

Now, if you run up in the projects on Surf Ave , thats a whole different story


especially at night :)


Nobody said anything about race.

Anyways, that's how cities are. A good neighborhood borders a bad neighborhood.

Do you think Lance was running around Bay Ridge with Russians or the projects?

HC
06-17-2011, 09:53 AM
A large amount of professional athletes and entertainers come from neigborhoods just as bad or worse than Lance and have no problems whatsoever. That is not an excuse for his behavior. It is a privilege to be in the NBA, he just needs to man up.

Taterhead
06-17-2011, 09:56 AM
A large amount of professional athletes and entertainers come from neigborhoods just as bad or worse than Lance and have no problems whatsoever. That is not an excuse for his behavior. It is a privilege to be in the NBA, he just needs to man up.

Who said excuse?

People should be allowed to make mistakes and given a fair chance at redemption. The kid is only 2 years out of HS. That's all I'm saying. And no one here knows him well enough to say the things that get said about him.

He also has never even been convicted of anything if you want to be so technical.

Since86
06-17-2011, 09:59 AM
Neither has OJ Simpson, but we all know the difference.

Public perception is completely different than the court of law. I shouldn't have to point that out.


And no one here knows him well enough to say the things that get said about him.

I didn't realize there was a 100 hour minimum of hanging out with someone before you could formulate an opinion on them. I'm a few hours short, I guess.

HC
06-17-2011, 10:02 AM
You are the one who threw out the whole product of his environment argument. I simply pointed out that many other guys face the same challenges with no problems, therefore it really isn't a valid point on your part in my opinion. I'm not being technical at all, you seem to be the one trying to differentiate between an excuse and a crutch.

Taterhead
06-17-2011, 10:07 AM
You are the one who threw out the whole product of his environment argument. I simply pointed out that many other guys face the same challenges with no problems, therefore it really isn't a valid point on your part in my opinion. I'm not being technical at all, you seem to be the one trying to differentiate between an excuse and a crutch.

If you don't think it's a valid point you are completely ignoring all the data that suggests it is a valid point.

Why do you think these neighborhoods have all the problems they have in the first place?

I don't need to make excuses for anything, and I didn't. I was just being realistic.

The exceptions aren't the rule.


A large amount of professional athletes and entertainers come from neigborhoods just as bad or worse than Lance and have no problems whatsoever. That is not an excuse for his behavior. It is a privilege to be in the NBA, he just needs to man up.

And a large amount of professional athletes and entertainers have done bad things as a youth and turned into outstanding people.

Taterhead
06-17-2011, 10:09 AM
Neither has OJ Simpson, but we all know the difference.

Public perception is completely different than the court of law. I shouldn't have to point that out.



I didn't realize there was a 100 hour minimum of hanging out with someone before you could formulate an opinion on them. I'm a few hours short, I guess.

Yeah believe it or not, you actually need more than a 100 hours to actually get to know someone on a personal level. You need to see them somewhere other than a gym. You need to see them with their family, friends, etc.

I have friends I have known for 15-20 years and I learn new things about them all the time.

Since86
06-17-2011, 10:56 AM
Why do you think these neighborhoods have all the problems they have in the first place?

Because they're continually given an excuse/crutch and aren't held to the same standards as the rest of society.

So because he's from a bad neighborhood you expect him to throw his GF down the stairs? Or I should say you're just not surprised that he did it, allegedly?

I think we all understand that it's more prevaliant in those types of situations, but it's still wrong and he should be held accountable regardless if he grew up in the projects or Orange Co. The crime doesn't change with location.

BRushWithDeath
06-17-2011, 11:01 AM
Met as in "Hi I am so and so" to "Hi Iam Lance"

or met and/or known long enough intamately to know their true charcture?

I don't think he's evil. I think he's stupid. Really stupid.

Larry Staverman
06-17-2011, 11:36 AM
Neither has OJ Simpson, but we all know the difference.

Public perception is completely different than the court of law. I shouldn't have to point that out.

FYI

In September 2007, Simpson was arrested in Las Vegas, Nevada, and charged with numerous felonies, including armed robbery and kidnapping. In 2008 he was found guilty and sentenced to 33 years imprisonment, with a minimum of 9 years without parole. He is currently serving his sentence at the Lovelock Correctional Center in Lovelock, Nevada.

Since86
06-17-2011, 11:41 AM
FYI

In September 2007, Simpson was arrested in Las Vegas, Nevada, and charged with numerous felonies, including armed robbery and kidnapping. In 2008 he was found guilty and sentenced to 33 years imprisonment, with a minimum of 9 years without parole. He is currently serving his sentence at the Lovelock Correctional Center in Lovelock, Nevada.

I know that, I was talking about him being found guilty of murder. That's what he's most notorious for.

samiuam
06-17-2011, 12:06 PM
Please stop. I am not a huge Lance fan, all I see is potential in him which people in the front office also see in the player. So, far he has done nothing to disprove such potential. He's young, only 2 years out of High School. Even Kobe, and KG took years to develop, and that was with consistent playing time.

What I have a problem with is people constantly picking on his "alleged" actions. It's funny, people cite them as if they are facts, and then couch their biased opinion regarding him by saying "alleged." As far as I know, the fact is he was accused of touching a female in High school (her buttocks if I remember correctly). Though, I don't condone this...having grown up in southern Indiana gone to high school here, this was not something so un-heard off. I imagine, this is something that happens across the country in this age group and something that can only be fixed over time with more education.

Then last summer there was the accusation that he "pushed his girlfried down the stairs and then slammed her head on the stairs" and again these charges were dropped. First, and I pointed this out when it first came to light, that such accusation/terms are very loaded and are almost never found in a medical report, though they may at times be found in an EMS report. Doctors, never put such things in the medical chart, precisely due to the fact such reports/stories are "alleged," and a physician knows that the medical chart is a legal document that can be brought into court and questioned. Hence, it is/should be based on fact only, not opinion.

Secondly, we must remember that again these charges were dropped. Both of these cases took place in New York and in New York City, a place which is known for aggressive prosecution, especially regarding celebrity cases. Do not forget this is the same city/state which sent Plaxico Burress to jail for 2 years for shooting himself accidentally. So, the fact that the charges were dropped seems to, in my opinion, give Lance the benefit of the doubt.

Again, we can and should debate his merits as a basketball player, but I think debating his "alleged" personal shortcomings as person is a bit overplayed. Just my opinion.

90'sNBARocked
06-17-2011, 12:55 PM
If you're a person who makes some mistakes in life, then you tend to get outcast by certain types. It's nothing new. People love to point fingers and make assumptions based off small bits of information. It's so easy, and people love easy. Even if it makes them look ignorant.

Lance has come from a place that most people on this board would be scared to even drive through. And he has been surrounded by certain things that most have no clue about. And because of that there are some personality flaws with him. That doesn't mean he is a bad person at all. People have to be given a chance at redemption. Especially when they are as young as he is.

But the thing that bothers me most is the crowd who pretends he isn't incredibly talented. Larry Bird disagrees. I'll take his opinion along with my own two eyes all day.



Lance played PG all through HS, and won 4 state titles. He played SG one year at Cincy, hardly his whole life.

and he has the NY State High school career scoring record

90'sNBARocked
06-17-2011, 12:58 PM
Nobody said anything about race.

Anyways, that's how cities are. A good neighborhood borders a bad neighborhood.

Do you think Lance was running around Bay Ridge with Russians or the projects?

possibly :)

The reason I mentioned the issue in the first place is I have visited a lot of undersirable areas and NY to me at least, I feel much safer than a bad neighborhood in Chicago

you are correct about the challenges Lance faced though

90'sNBARocked
06-17-2011, 01:03 PM
Well to be fair I thik we can all agree Lance has had some "issues" in his past. I think more on a maturity note, than a "bad apple" note, if that makes sense

I do think that to say someone came from a rough area, and use it as an excuse to break the law or do bad things is wrong

but I also think to act as though someone who grew up in say southern indiana faces the same challenges or same issues as someone froma poorer neighboorhod does is niave

Since86
06-17-2011, 01:08 PM
Just because the charges were dropped doesn't mean he didn't do it. Charges are dropped for a number of reasons. Saying "well the charges were dropped" isn't a good defense of what happened.

Say I get pulled over for a DUI and I go into the diversion program. I'm not formally charged with anything, so does that mean I wasn't driving drunk? Uh, no....

Trouble seems to follow Lance. That gives a pretty strong indication that he has something to do with the problems. We can argue opinions over whether or not it's Lance's fault, none of us know the exact circumstances. But at the same time, Lance is easily replaceable, and it's in his best interest to remove himself from situations that could go bad, as much as possible.

90'sNBARocked
06-17-2011, 01:12 PM
Just because the charges were dropped doesn't mean he didn't do it. Charges are dropped for a number of reasons. Saying "well the charges were dropped" isn't a good defense of what happened.

Say I get pulled over for a DUI and I go into the diversion program. I'm not formally charged with anything, so does that mean I wasn't driving drunk? Uh, no....

Trouble seems to follow Lance. That gives a pretty strong indication that he has something to do with the problems. We can argue opinions over whether or not it's Lance's fault, none of us know the exact circumstances. But at the same time, Lance is easily replaceable, and it's in his best interest to remove himself from situations that could go bad, as much as possible.

and just because the "public opinion" is he did it, doesn not make it factual

In Lances case I feel extreemly confident in saying if there was physical evidence discoverred by the physician at the time the girlfriend was treated, I can not see anyway Lance would have the charges droped, in fact I believe NY state law would demand a trial

but some people will formulate an opinoin, regardless of the outcome of the case

Also what has he really done that was that bad

The first charge in highschool was that he aledgedly grabed a girls butt. seriously? not defending the action but I think most heterosexual young boys have grabed a girls but before

The issue with the girlfriend, in my opinion was blown way out of proportion

the other things were alledged runins with coaches

Since86
06-17-2011, 01:23 PM
Public perception equals reality, regardless if it's the truth or not. You don't have to like it, or think that it should. That doesn't matter. You have to work within the system in place, and that's the system in place.

90'sNBARocked
06-17-2011, 01:29 PM
Public perception equals reality, regardless if it's the truth or not. You don't have to like it, or think that it should. That doesn't matter. You have to work within the system in place, and that's the system in place.

I dont necessarily agree with that statement

unless you mean that if the public perception is made up , than the reality is that is how said person is viewed

Speed
06-17-2011, 01:53 PM
FYI

In September 2007, Simpson was arrested in Las Vegas, Nevada, and charged with numerous felonies, including armed robbery and kidnapping, but he was really convicted for murder

Sorry it was a Seth Meyers line from SNL a few seasons ago, I couldn't resist.

Taterhead
06-17-2011, 01:56 PM
Just because the charges were dropped doesn't mean he didn't do it. Charges are dropped for a number of reasons. Saying "well the charges were dropped" isn't a good defense of what happened.

Say I get pulled over for a DUI and I go into the diversion program. I'm not formally charged with anything, so does that mean I wasn't driving drunk? Uh, no....

Trouble seems to follow Lance. That gives a pretty strong indication that he has something to do with the problems. We can argue opinions over whether or not it's Lance's fault, none of us know the exact circumstances. But at the same time, Lance is easily replaceable, and it's in his best interest to remove himself from situations that could go bad, as much as possible.

All I mean by his environment is that he is more likely to struggle with anger issues, and things of that nature. I'm not making excuses for Lance, all his problems are his own. But, I am not one of these people who sees everything as a cut and dry moral issue. There is more to it than that. He didn't just wake up one day and decide to have a violent temper or a sexual issue towards women. At the end of the day I think if he truly wants to be a solid human being, then he needs an environment for once that supports him in that aspect. I don't think he has ever had that before.

I also don't feel like 6'5" PG's who can score and pass the way he can are easily replaceable. I think Lance is the most naturally talented PG the Pacers have ever had.


Public perception equals reality, regardless if it's the truth or not. You don't have to like it, or think that it should. That doesn't matter. You have to work within the system in place, and that's the system in place.

That's what I call being a sheep, IMO. Public perception changes.

Since86
06-17-2011, 02:10 PM
I also don't feel like 6'5" PG's who can score and pass the way he can are easily replaceable. I think Lance is the most naturally talented PG the Pacers have ever had.

I knew I should have added another line.

Lance is easily replaceable, until he actually does something with his talent. As of right now, he's just a 3rd string PG and not much more.



That's what I call being a sheep, IMO.

I don't like it either, but that's how the world works. :shrug: But yes, public perception can change. Just not easily.

EDIT: And I don't think he needs an environment to help him change. Domestic abuse, or whatever other illegal/immoral/unethical action you can think of doesn't know differences in income or race or religion.

Good people come out of the ghetto's, they come out of Beverly Hills. Bad people also come out of both.

It has to do with how you want to live your life, and if you're strong enough to make the right decisions in the moment.

You always have a choice.

Taterhead
06-17-2011, 02:29 PM
I knew I should have added another line.

Lance is easily replaceable, until he actually does something with his talent. As of right now, he's just a 3rd string PG and not much more.




I don't like it either, but that's how the world works. :shrug: But yes, public perception can change. Just not easily.

EDIT: And I don't think he needs an environment to help him change. Domestic abuse, or whatever other illegal/immoral/unethical action you can think of doesn't know differences in income or race or religion.

Good people come out of the ghetto's, they come out of Beverly Hills. Bad people also come out of both.

It has to do with how you want to live your life, and if you're strong enough to make the right decisions in the moment.

You always have a choice.

I don't disagree. I just wanna give the kid a chance, that's all. He is one of the lowest paid guys on the team and he is under contract for 1 more guaranteed year. I don't see the big deal with allowing him more time to show some progress. If he disrupts the locker room, then he heads to Ft. Wayne for a stretch.

I would a lot rather have Lance sitting on the end of the bench than Adam Morrison or Robert Swift. As a 15th man, I don't think you can do any better than a kid like Lance. And who knows maybe you will have a 6'5" PG" who can flat out ball. At least that is my hope.

Larry Staverman
06-17-2011, 02:46 PM
Just because the charges were dropped doesn't mean he didn't do it. Charges are dropped for a number of reasons. Saying "well the charges were dropped" isn't a good defense of what happened.


Absolutely! He is every bit as guilty as those Duke Lacrosse players.

It's not the results of the case that matters it's the severity of the charges that matters.

Would you mind posting a copy of the investigative report that you've read? I'd like to nail Lance also!

Since86
06-17-2011, 03:04 PM
Absolutely! He is every bit as guilty as those Duke Lacrosse players.

It's not the results of the case that matters it's the severity of the charges that matters.

Would you mind posting a copy of the investigative report that you've read? I'd like to nail Lance also!

Maybe you can dig through all 75 pages of the lance discussion we've had and show me where I said Lance was guilty.

I'll save you a lot of time and tell you that I've never said claimed he was. IN FACT, I was standing beside 90s at the very beginning telling everyone to hold off on their judgements.

But don't let pesky facts get in your way. Carry on!

90'sNBARocked
06-17-2011, 03:10 PM
Maybe you can dig through all 75 pages of the lance discussion we've had and show me where I said Lance was guilty.

I'll save you a lot of time and tell you that I've never said claimed he was. IN FACT, I was standing beside 90s at the very beginning telling everyone to hold off on their judgements.

But don't let pesky facts get in your way. Carry on!

No doubt

I firmly remember you as one of the few here that wanted to wait until after the facts were revelaed before you past judgement

props

Larry Staverman
06-17-2011, 03:10 PM
Maybe you can dig through all 75 pages of the lance discussion we've had and show me where I said Lance was guilty.

Never said you did! Maybe you should re-read my post.

Using the green text kinda defeats the purpose.

Larry Staverman
06-17-2011, 03:14 PM
No doubt

I firmly remember you as one of the few here that wanted to wait until after the facts were revelaed before you past judgement

props

That is why I asked him to post a copy of the facts (investigative report) so we could all see that facts before we passed judgement.

Scot Pollard
06-17-2011, 04:05 PM
Do you guys think Paul George and Lance Stephenson will be stars?

Paul looks great and a future star. Lance does too, but he can't be another Stephen Jackson or Ron Artest. Good players with a badass attitude.

pacer4ever
06-17-2011, 04:09 PM
Do you guys think Paul George and Lance Stephenson will be stars?

Paul looks great and a future star. Lance does too, but he can't be another Stephen Jackson or Ron Artest. Good players with a badass attitude.

why? I would gladly trade Lance being a star which is not likley for a badass attitude.

HC
06-17-2011, 04:20 PM
If you don't think it's a valid point you are completely ignoring all the data that suggests it is a valid point.

Why do you think these neighborhoods have all the problems they have in the first place?

I don't need to make excuses for anything, and I didn't. I was just being realistic.

The exceptions aren't the rule.



And a large amount of professional athletes and entertainers have done bad things as a youth and turned into outstanding people.

You are still completely missing the point....For every Lance, there are 10 other guys from equally bad neighborhoods who don't have his issues at all.

ilive4sports
06-17-2011, 06:05 PM
You are still completely missing the point....For every Lance, there are 10 other guys from equally bad neighborhoods who don't have his issues at all.

I think Danny Granger grew up in as bad of a neighborhood as Lance did.

90'sNBARocked
06-17-2011, 06:21 PM
I think Danny Granger grew up in as bad of a neighborhood as Lance did.

yeah but a different kind of bad neighboorhood

ilive4sports
06-17-2011, 06:38 PM
yeah but a different kind of bad neighboorhood

Its still a bad neighborhood and Danny grew up to be a very smart man. Yes, the neighborhood has something to do with Lance making stupid decisions. So does everyone telling him he is the best thing to ever walk the earth.

He has work to do, on and off the court. I don't care where he comes from, I just want him to shape up and focus on basketball.

Taterhead
06-17-2011, 06:56 PM
You are still completely missing the point....For every Lance, there are 10 other guys from equally bad neighborhoods who don't have his issues at all.

I understand the point, it's just wrong. You have your ratio backwards.

For every Danny Granger, there are 10 young black men from that same neighborhood either locked up, strung out, dead or moving that direction. Danny is the exception, NOT THE RULE!

And believe it or not, Lance is an exception and success story as well. At least so far. He's not in prison. He is still alive. He is actively involved in his daughters life. He's certainly doing better financially than the vast majority of the folks from Coney Island.


I think Danny Granger grew up in as bad of a neighborhood as Lance did.

Yeah but didn't Danny have a GREAT father? And didn't his father sit on TV and do an interview and talk about how HARD it was living in that neighborhood? I distinctly remember that. He didn't say "Ah it's no big deal, it has no affect on anything".


Do you guys think Paul George and Lance Stephenson will be stars?

Paul looks great and a future star. Lance does too, but he can't be another Stephen Jackson or Ron Artest. Good players with a badass attitude.

IDK, but I think if Lance and Paul both reach their full potential, Lance will be considered the better player.

Trophy
06-17-2011, 07:08 PM
I think how he does and the minutes he gets this upcoming season will determine his future here. Also, especially his behavior.

Trophy
06-17-2011, 07:15 PM
Danny took on a lot of responsibility when it was just he, his dad, and his siblings.

As far as Danny's family, they were great people and Danny overcame the bad environment he came from because he had to mature at a very young age. He was focused on school and basketball and succeeded with both. He could've went to Yale, but they didn't have a basketball program and wanted to continue.

Lance grew up in a pretty poor area of Brooklyn. I know he had his family in his life and he was very close with them and even now is still very close. I think it's who he hung around with. He became a father very early and he still wants to have a good time and now that he's in the NBA he needs to grow up. He's just confused.

xBulletproof
06-17-2011, 07:21 PM
IDK, but I think if Lance and Paul both reach their full potential, Lance will be considered the better player.

Absolutely not. Not even close.

90'sNBARocked
06-17-2011, 07:33 PM
Its still a bad neighborhood and Danny grew up to be a very smart man. Yes, the neighborhood has something to do with Lance making stupid decisions. So does everyone telling him he is the best thing to ever walk the earth.

He has work to do, on and off the court. I don't care where he comes from, I just want him to shape up and focus on basketball.

Its not that I dont agree but (even though I dont know both personally) there is a big difference between Danny's father and Lance's father

ziplockfresh
06-19-2011, 05:10 PM
Absolutely not. Not even close.

Uh...Lance can be better than George.

Sparhawk
06-19-2011, 05:28 PM
Lance is going to emerge next season.

xBulletproof
06-19-2011, 05:37 PM
Uh...Lance can be better than George.

Let's see, less athletic than George, less intelligent than George, no defensive instincts compared to George, and can't shoot nearly as well despite already been playing against NBA players for years. He should be used to the comp and more prepared than George for the jump. He wasn't.

I see nothing that indicates Lance could be better at anything except handles and maybe passing.

gummy
06-19-2011, 06:31 PM
Oh, this again. Goodie!

I wonder, if we combined all these Lance threads into one mega-thread, would it be over 100 pages? ;)

Taterhead
06-19-2011, 08:34 PM
Let's see, less athletic than George, less intelligent than George, no defensive instincts compared to George, and can't shoot nearly as well despite already been playing against NBA players for years. He should be used to the comp and more prepared than George for the jump. He wasn't.

I see nothing that indicates Lance could be better at anything except handles and maybe passing.

What are you basing this on exactly? Lance's 6 games of minimal playing time? The fact you said "maybe passing" shows you are not that familiar with Lance's skills at all. Lance is the best passer on the team, BY FAR. Paul George is a better defender and three point shooter, but that's it. And the gaps there aren't as broad as you make them out to be. When they played together in the Summer League the difference offensively between George and Stephenson was obvious.

xBulletproof
06-19-2011, 09:01 PM
Yes, again you reference the pickup games in the summer against guys who are bagging groceries right now. Summer league is a joke. Jerryd Bayless averaged 30 ppg in summer league too. He's sure tearing it up in the NBA. Imagine that though, Lance ... a known street baller killed it in pickup games. Its a no brainer why he looked good in that setting.

What are you basing these passing skills on anyway? High school? Street ball? He averaged 2.5 assists per at Cincy. I think people want these mythical skills to be there more than they exist.

If he was half as talented as some think here, he wouldn't have lasted until the 2nd round for grabbing a girls rear and petty differences with teammates and coaches.

Taterhead
06-19-2011, 09:28 PM
Yes, again you reference the pickup games in the summer against guys who are bagging groceries right now. Summer league is a joke. Jerryd Bayless averaged 30 ppg in summer league too. He's sure tearing it up in the NBA. Imagine that though, Lance ... a known street baller killed it in pickup games. Its a no brainer why he looked good in that setting.

What are you basing these passing skills on anyway? High school? Street ball? He averaged 2.5 assists per at Cincy. I think people want these mythical skills to be there more than they exist.

If he was half as talented as some think here, he wouldn't have lasted until the 2nd round for grabbing a girls rear and petty differences with teammates and coaches.

2.5 assists per game for a freshman SG playing 28 minutes off the ball is great. He had 8 games of 4+ assists, again that is great for a freshman SG. He played PG in HS and won 4 state titles in NY. Do a little research man before you talk about things. Geez.

Here's the thing with Lance. If you have watched him over the last 4-5 years, and not just the last two, you probably have a different view of him. Lance Stephenson has a tremendous motor. He plays damn hard. He is a fiery competitor too. And sometimes I think that trait gets over looked more than anything. People have always questioned his intelligence and the off the court stuff. But his talent is unmistakable. And he has a natural feel for the game. Go ask Larry Bird. Why do you think he is willing to put his reputation on the line for this kid? Because he can be one of the very best players in the entire NBA. And Larry knows it. I like Paul George a lot, and I think he is a gonna be very good. But I don't think he has the aggressiveness and competitiveness that Lance does. He is relentless going to the basket. He has a deadly pull up, mid range jumpshot. He gets to the line with regularity. He has great court vision and is a more than willing passer. In fact, he makes incredible passes on a regular basis. Some around here severely under estimate him.

Another thing is, Lance is a PG, and always has been. When Stephenson went to Cincinnati, they took the ball out of his hands and he struggled with that. And his immaturity showed. But even at Cincinnati playing a completely different role, he still had games that he dominated down the stretch against quality opponents. In HS, Lance was the entire offense for Lincoln. He dominated the ball, and they were pretty successful with that against tough competition. The Pacers IMO, got a rare opportunity to get a Top 3 level talent in the draft in the 2nd round. That's a chance you just gotta take, and cross your fingers.

Lance is a guy who can get Danny Granger a wide open three. He can also be the guy that gets out on the break and allows Paul George to finish. And, he can be the guy that gets Hans a wide open 15 footer and Roy an easy dunk. I don't see Paul as that type of player. I see Paul as a defensive specialist who can score.

BTW, you think those guys in the summer league are bagging groceries? Really? They are playing professionally over seas and a lot are on NBA rosters. Just FYI

xBulletproof
06-19-2011, 09:45 PM
I know about him playing PG in high school, but its high school. It means nothing in reference to the NBA. That's the difference right there. You think high school Lance can do the same in the NBA. My high school team had 7 D1 college players and a two time All american in college who played in multiple Final Fours. He was a monster in high school, but could he do the same in the NBA? Of course not.

What Lance did in high school has little to do with how he does in the NBA.

Kemo
06-19-2011, 09:45 PM
A large amount of professional athletes and entertainers come from neigborhoods just as bad or worse than Lance and have no problems whatsoever. That is not an excuse for his behavior. It is a privilege to be in the NBA, he just needs to man up.

No... But maybe it's an excuse as to his mentality and why he thinks like he does..

Old habits are hard to break, but they absolutely can be .. Just give him some time around good influences and he will mature mentally..

Hicks
06-19-2011, 10:41 PM
RE: Lance versus Paul from what I've seen:

Lance is an elite passer with elite court vision, while Paul shows signs of being a good passer with decent court vision.

Lance is clearly the better ball-handler, and therefore gets to the rim and can create his own jumpshot more easily than Paul.

Lance has a bouquet of red flags, Paul has none. (Re: Off court issues, locker room issues, immaturity issues, intelligence issues).

Paul George appears to have a very high work ethic, Lance I haven't heard one way or the other.

Paul George is taller, longer, more athletic, and faster.

Paul George has better range.

Paul George is showing signs of being an elite defender, while Lance is hoping to work his way up to "acceptable". This is with regards to on-ball defense.

Off ball, I've yet to see much from Lance, yet Paul can be a stat-sheet-stuff with blocks and especially with steals.

Paul George appears to be a good rebounder, Lance TBD, but doubtful he'll match or surpass Paul at this.

It's not hard for me to decide who I think is better now, or who I think will be better later. Especially if the question is who will be better later, for the Pacers. If Lance succeeds, I predict it will be with his 2nd or 3rd team.

Justin Tyme
06-19-2011, 10:52 PM
2.5 assists per game for a freshman SG playing 28 minutes off the ball is great. He had 8 games of 4+ assists, again that is great for a freshman SG. He played PG in HS and won 4 state titles in NY. Do a little research man before you talk about things. Geez.

Here's the thing with Lance. If you have watched him over the last 4-5 years, and not just the last two, you probably have a different view of him. Lance Stephenson has a tremendous motor. He plays damn hard. He is a fiery competitor too. And sometimes I think that trait gets over looked more than anything. People have always questioned his intelligence and the off the court stuff. But his talent is unmistakable. And he has a natural feel for the game. Go ask Larry Bird. Why do you think he is willing to put his reputation on the line for this kid? Because he can be one of the very best players in the entire NBA. And Larry knows it. I like Paul George a lot, and I think he is a gonna be very good. But I don't think he has the aggressiveness and competitiveness that Lance does. He is relentless going to the basket. He has a deadly pull up, mid range jumpshot. He gets to the line with regularity. He has great court vision and is a more than willing passer. In fact, he makes incredible passes on a regular basis. Some around here severely under estimate him.

Another thing is, Lance is a PG, and always has been. When Stephenson went to Cincinnati, they took the ball out of his hands and he struggled with that. And his immaturity showed. But even at Cincinnati playing a completely different role, he still had games that he dominated down the stretch against quality opponents. In HS, Lance was the entire offense for Lincoln. He dominated the ball, and they were pretty successful with that against tough competition. The Pacers IMO, got a rare opportunity to get a Top 3 level talent in the draft in the 2nd round. That's a chance you just gotta take, and cross your fingers.

Lance is a guy who can get Danny Granger a wide open three. He can also be the guy that gets out on the break and allows Paul George to finish. And, he can be the guy that gets Hans a wide open 15 footer and Roy an easy dunk. I don't see Paul as that type of player. I see Paul as a defensive specialist who can score.

BTW, you think those guys in the summer league are bagging groceries? Really? They are playing professionally over seas and a lot are on NBA rosters. Just FYI


If he's this great talent, why didn't he play last year? He never played until March when Vogel took over. Then only for what, 6 games? Why only 6 games? It's not like the Pacers had so much talent that they couldn't find some PT for a player with the caliber of talent you say he has.

Cousins gave his coach fits last year, and he played in spite of it b/c of his talent. Yet Stephenson couldn't sniff the court until the season was almost over with this talent. Sorry, but something just isn't right?

There is a reason those players are currently playing overseas and not in the NBA.

Taterhead
06-20-2011, 01:36 AM
If he's this great talent, why didn't he play last year? He never played until March when Vogel took over. Then only for what, 6 games? Why only 6 games? It's not like the Pacers had so much talent that they couldn't find some PT for a player with the caliber of talent you say he has.

Cousins gave his coach fits last year, and he played in spite of it b/c of his talent. Yet Stephenson couldn't sniff the court until the season was almost over with this talent. Sorry, but something just isn't right?

There is a reason those players are currently playing overseas and not in the NBA.

There are a lot of reasons guys don't play in the NBA. For starters, he's really young with character concerns and the Pacers are purposely bringing him along slowly.

Look I am not talking about where he is now. I am responding to someone who was saying Lance wouldn't be as good as Paul George if they both reached their full potential. That's all. I never said anything about whether or not he deserves minutes right now.


I know about him playing PG in high school, but its high school. It means nothing in reference to the NBA. That's the difference right there. You think high school Lance can do the same in the NBA. My high school team had 7 D1 college players and a two time All american in college who played in multiple Final Fours. He was a monster in high school, but could he do the same in the NBA? Of course not.

What Lance did in high school has little to do with how he does in the NBA.

Of course it doesn't. I am referring to you claiming he was not as talented as George.

I never said he would succeed or fail. Just that he has the talent to be a great player in the NBA.

Midcoasted
06-20-2011, 03:05 AM
Do you guys think Paul George and Lance Stephenson will be stars?

Paul looks great and a future star. Lance does too, but he can't be another Stephen Jackson or Ron Artest. Good players with a badass attitude.

Yes. They both have star written all over them. Lance next year is really going to turn some heads. The only reason I am optimistic he won't become Ron or Stephen, is because he doesn't seem as crazy as they did. He seems to be a little more of a Brooklyn knucklehead with a lustful eye, than a crazed lunatic that is going to explode like a bomb one day. He also has more natural talent than both of them.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if Lance gets his head on right, and George keeps progressing like we all know he will, and Hibbert comes in in his 4th year and holds down the center (alot of people say you can't judge a big until his 4th year), we could go from being looked at as one of the least talented teams, to one of, if not the most talented.

I truly believe if Lance George Granger Hansbrough and Hibbert live up to their full potentials, we could take home a trophy with that squad, it TPTB are to allow it. And this is my view without Larry working his draft magic this year and a solid signing. If a single person is traded from that core I will be upset. Collison still has some proving to do but he matched D Rose those first few games I thought. But if Lance and George both are stars, doesn't that make Granger expandable if you plan to keep Collison?

Hey Peyton Manning has made the Colts like the 4th most popular NFL franchise in the world, why can't a dominant Pacers squad follow that model? I'm looking at you, league office.:dance::happydanc:box::laugh:

pacer4ever
06-20-2011, 04:24 AM
Yes. They both have star written all over them. Lance next year is really going to turn some heads. The only reason I am optimistic he won't become Ron or Stephen, is because he doesn't seem as crazy as they did. He seems to be a little more of a Brooklyn knucklehead with a lustful eye, than a crazed lunatic that is going to explode like a bomb one day. He also has more natural talent than both of them.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if Lance gets his head on right, and George keeps progressing like we all know he will, and Hibbert comes in in his 4th year and holds down the center (alot of people say you can't judge a big until his 4th year), we could go from being looked at as one of the least talented teams, to one of, if not the most talented.

I truly believe if Lance George Granger Hansbrough and Hibbert live up to their full potentials, we could take home a trophy with that squad, it TPTB are to allow it. And this is my view without Larry working his draft magic this year and a solid signing. If a single person is traded from that core I will be upset. Collison still has some proving to do but he matched D Rose those first few games I thought. But if Lance and George both are stars, doesn't that make Granger expandable if you plan to keep Collison?

Hey Peyton Manning has made the Colts like the 4th most popular NFL franchise in the world, why can't a dominant Pacers squad follow that model? I'm looking at you, league office.:dance::happydanc:box::laugh:

:wtf2:
:spock:
:50cent:

Is this real life?

Hicks
06-20-2011, 08:05 AM
I dont know which is more over the top: That post, or the above response. :rolleyes:

Reginald
06-20-2011, 09:51 AM
The thing we seem to be overlooking are the constant rumors about Gordon in 2013 and the informed speculation that Bird is making a run at a scoring two-guard in the this week's draft. Translation? The front office has taken off the rose-colored glasses (thank God) when it comes to Lance.

Lance is a cancer, and a talented cancer is still a cancer.

Reginald
06-20-2011, 09:54 AM
I truly believe if Lance George Granger Hansbrough and Hibbert live up to their full potentials, we could take home a trophy with that squad...If a single person is traded from that core I will be upset.

You'd be upset if we traded Lance for the right offer? Really?

I'm practically praying for it. I'd sacrifice a live goat if it would help things along.

90'sNBARocked
06-20-2011, 12:51 PM
All I am honestly hoping for is BOTH Paul and Lance reach their true potential

The it will really be fun debating who is the better player

ziplockfresh
06-21-2011, 05:20 PM
The thing we seem to be overlooking are the constant rumors about Gordon in 2013 and the informed speculation that Bird is making a run at a scoring two-guard in the this week's draft. Translation? The front office has taken off the rose-colored glasses (thank God) when it comes to Lance.

Lance is a cancer, and a talented cancer is still a cancer.

Good thing Lance is a PG then.

xBulletproof
06-21-2011, 05:26 PM
I dont know which is more over the top: That post, or the above response. :rolleyes:

This post is what I thought of when I heard what Larry Bird said about Lance, while listening to 1070 today.

I'll be glad if I'm wrong that Lance is that good, but we also knew what he thought of James White. He makes mistakes too.

90'sNBARocked
06-21-2011, 05:40 PM
This post is what I thought of when I heard what Larry Bird said about Lance, while listening to 1070 today.

I'll be glad if I'm wrong that Lance is that good, but we also knew what he thought of James White. He makes mistakes too.

Fair point my man, but think of it like this

Even though James White had a guaranteed 2 year contract , Bird cut him before the season started

Lance, had roughly the same contract , had the big issue with the girlfriend, problems with the team/maturity and Bird Is STILL PUMPING HIM UP


just my opinion but I see a big difference between the two

kellogg
06-21-2011, 05:48 PM
I know about him playing PG in high school, but its high school. It means nothing in reference to the NBA. That's the difference right there. You think high school Lance can do the same in the NBA. My high school team had 7 D1 college players and a two time All american in college who played in multiple Final Fours. He was a monster in high school, but could he do the same in the NBA? Of course not.

What Lance did in high school has little to do with how he does in the NBA.

True...just look at how LeBron turned out.

xBulletproof
06-21-2011, 05:52 PM
True...just look at how LeBron turned out.

Or you could look at every NBA player/prospect who didn't work out, because anyone who's even considered for the NBA is generally going to be a monster in high school.

kellogg
06-21-2011, 07:59 PM
Or you could look at every NBA player/prospect who didn't work out, because anyone who's even considered for the NBA is generally going to be a monster in high school.

Kidding aside...I think you just don't know, I agree with you that generally speaking HS stats don't mean much, but every player in the NBA right now had good HS stats...so they neither prove or disprove success at the next level.

And again the generalization could also be made that top #5 HS players do make good NBA players. The McDonalds AA kids more often than not do quite well, especially the MVPs.

PacersHomer
06-21-2011, 08:06 PM
Lance is a nice guy....when he pays...

wseward
06-21-2011, 10:06 PM
IF, and its a big IF, Lance develops he will be perfect against the Bulls/Thunder/Powerful PG. He doesn't give up much size to the new poweful and athletic PGs coming into the leage..

Having Lance develop gives us a lot of veratility with our lineups. We can put a defensive stopper aka PG on D-Rose while having Lance guard the 2 spot. DC gave up a lot of size to Korver and Bogans, and they killed us coming off screens.

One of our biggest weaknesses in that series was not having a 2 guard who could handle. Being able to bring DC off the bench to match up against CJ Watson which is a much more favorable matchup for DC on O and D would be have been a huge advantage for us.

Pacerfan
06-23-2011, 12:46 AM
King24George Paul George
Chillin with born ready lol!

http://twitter.com/#!/King24George

Our future two best players are chilling. Lance please learn some maturity from PG. I might regain some hope in Lance if he doesn't do anything stupid over the summer.

ECKrueger
06-23-2011, 12:54 AM
Beat me to it. Teach Lance well Paul. I hope they compete to see who is better.

pacer4ever
06-24-2011, 02:42 AM
Lance has dropped 10 pounds so i could see him being a lot quicker than last year. Sounds like he has good work ethic if he already dropped 10 pounds from the end of the season.

Constellations
06-24-2011, 02:57 AM
True...just look at how LeBron turned out.

Maybe LBJ could try scoring in the 4th quarter, oh wait, he already tried and failed. Just ask Dirk.