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IU_sears
06-14-2011, 11:43 PM
Anyone else intrigued by the prospects of drafting this player? He looks to be a lethal scorer, good off the dribble, long and athletic... I would love to have a wing rotation of DG33, PG, and Marshon as building blocks on the perimeter.

Any chance TBird is going to do an analysis on this player?

I see some similar characteristics with Marshon rising up the draft boards late like Paul George did last season... I just watched some highlights and things I have read about him make me excited about his potential. He also hung 52 points on a good ND squad this season.

ChristianDudley
06-14-2011, 11:56 PM
I would say that he's definitely high up on Larry Bird's list of potential draftees...I'm just not sure how high up (does he like Jimmer more STILL??).

PacersHomer
06-15-2011, 12:09 AM
He's my favorite prospect who the Pacers have a reasonable shot at. It's a damn shame there are no good power forwards in this draft.

BornReady
06-15-2011, 12:09 AM
He's my favorite prospect who the Pacers have a reasonable shot at. It's a damn shame there are no good power forwards in this draft.

I LOVE YOUR PROFILE PIC! hahaha its so CUTE!

Dr. Hibbert
06-15-2011, 12:42 AM
Huge Marshon Brooks fan here. He would be a tremendous pick.

CooperManning
06-15-2011, 04:47 AM
Hate to say it, but I'm going to be a little disappointed if we don't get Marshon. I felt the same way about PG last year and at the time it felt like a once in a decade kind of wish fulfillment thing. Two years in a row would be awesome, but my expectations are realistic. At this point, I'm fairly worried about the Bucks taking him, but if he makes it past them it seems like he's got a good chance to fall to us. I'm not sure what Larry does at that point. I think he likes Marshon but I'm not sure if he prefers any of the euros or maybe there's a big he has his eye on. And I think he'd take Jimmer over Marshon, but it's looking more and more like Jimmer's not going to be there. We'll see. Unless something big changes over the next week I'm really hoping we end up Marshon one way or another.

Frostwolf
06-15-2011, 05:21 AM
he would definitely add some needed scoring ability to our second unit.

pwee31
06-15-2011, 07:58 AM
Hate to say it, but I'm going to be a little disappointed if we don't get Marshon. I felt the same way about PG last year and at the time it felt like a once in a decade kind of wish fulfillment thing. Two years in a row would be awesome, but my expectations are realistic. At this point, I'm fairly worried about the Bucks taking him, but if he makes it past them it seems like he's got a good chance to fall to us. I'm not sure what Larry does at that point. I think he likes Marshon but I'm not sure if he prefers any of the euros or maybe there's a big he has his eye on. And I think he'd take Jimmer over Marshon, but it's looking more and more like Jimmer's not going to be there. We'll see. Unless something big changes over the next week I'm really hoping we end up Marshon one way or another.

I had that fulfillment with Hansbrough. That draft was the same day Michael Jackson passed away, who I was a really big fan of. I had that feeling for a moment when Bayless was drafted, but that obviously didn't last long.

Last year I didn't really have a favorite at the time we picked. I was intrigued with Paul George, and so I was happy with the selection, just not fulfilled as I haven't hopped on any bandwagons

Speed
06-15-2011, 08:17 AM
Listened to a podcast recently. A guy said he had an awkward shot, but that it goes in. Also said he wasn't a top 100 guy coming into college. Doesn't matter, but interesting tidbits. I wish they would replay a Providence game on ESPNU and ESPN Classic.

Heads up, they are replaying a bunch of college games starting 6/20 in the lead up to the draft. I'm DVRing Colorado (Burks), Kansas (Morris twins, Selby), Texas (Jordan Williams, Tristan Thompson), and Tennesee (Tobias Harris), Florida State (Singleton).

D-BONE
06-15-2011, 08:21 AM
Not a big Jimmer fan here. Probably won't have a cow if we pick though. The way I'm trying to approach it is, if a guy like Brooks shoots up to the top 10, somebody who was considered higher is going to be available to us. Hopefully, that's one of a group of guys that are more acceptable to us.

Let's say we end up with a Singleton or even a Tristan Thompson. What about Montejuinas? Luck out with Burks? At 15, none of those guys would be chopped liver, IMO. This draft has a good amount of unpredictability, and that's not factoring in possible trades. Would love to see us make some noise that way.

owl
06-15-2011, 08:37 AM
Burks
Brooks
Biyombo
Darius Morris
Jimmer
Montiejunas

I would be happy with any of these players with Biyombo at the top. However with Lorbek and Stanko possibly coming over I am not sure Bird would take Biyombo if available at 15 or Montiejunas for that matter.
I like Darius for his pure point ability and size. I think Brooks will be gone at 15.

Speed
06-15-2011, 08:39 AM
I wonder what the chances of either Stanko or Lorbek coming are? I would guess if theres an extended lockout, they'll just let them stay overseas for another season.

owl
06-15-2011, 08:42 AM
So much uncertainty with the lockout. It looks like the NFL might be moving toward
an agreement. Hopefully they get something done and maybe that puts a fire under
the NBA to follow suit.

Sparhawk
06-15-2011, 09:16 AM
I will say that I like Marshon more than I like Burks.

bphil
06-15-2011, 09:52 AM
Super stoked on Brooks right now, and here's why... check out 1:34 in this vid:

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9v8W2pumHX8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That's an NBA move if I ever saw one. The guy has a very good mid-range game which, as LeBron learned against Dallas, is hugely important in this league. I would love to see Marshon in a Pacers uni, but I would be very, very surprised if he's still available at 15 in this pathetic draft.

flox
06-15-2011, 09:58 AM
I watched him live this year and he is the real deal. His speed, penetration, basketball moves were all insane. He was easily the best player on the floor that night.

bphil
06-15-2011, 10:10 AM
Apparently the word now is that he really impressed during his workout with the Bucks and there's a chance they'll take him at #10.

PR07
06-15-2011, 11:16 AM
I definitely see some of the Kobe comparisons in his midrange game. He has a way of snaking around to find an open look at the rim.

graphic-er
06-15-2011, 12:14 PM
But can the guy defend? If he can then i'd be all for it.

A wing rotation of PG, Granger, Brooks, and Jones would be very good.

naptownmenace
06-15-2011, 12:30 PM
Super stoked on Brooks right now, and here's why... check out 1:34 in this vid:

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9v8W2pumHX8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That's an NBA move if I ever saw one. The guy has a very good mid-range game which, as LeBron learned against Dallas, is hugely important in this league. I would love to see Marshon in a Pacers uni, but I would be very, very surprised if he's still available at 15 in this pathetic draft.

Yeah, he seems to be really impressing a lot of people with every team he visits. He might climb the ladder into the top 10 the way Russell Westbrook became more popular as he visited teams.

I love his balance and his ability to finish through contact. Those are two very underrated skills.

15th parallel
06-15-2011, 01:02 PM
Here's one workout video of Marshon Brooks:
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0mq-JMf1szk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Just by watching that, you'll be impressed by how well he shoots from the perimeter. If I were to draft in the mid 10's I will certainly get him if he's still available. That kid has just too many ways to score, and he can be the slasher/penetrator the team is looking for.

TheDon
06-15-2011, 01:17 PM
Seriously this team is about one wing short of a bucket from KFC. I will be very ho-hum if we add yet another wing player to this team. There's nothing this guy does that I don't think George could'nt do now or incapable of doing later other then maybe a decent 3pt shot, which George seemed better at in college than in the NBA but I don't think that that won't come along with time. George has one of the smoothest shots in the league I think it'll come around.

Shade
06-15-2011, 01:44 PM
Brooks is who I want. Reminds me of a young Kobe.

Shade
06-15-2011, 01:46 PM
Seriously this team is about one wing short of a bucket from KFC. I will be very ho-hum if we add yet another wing player to this team. There's nothing this guy does that I don't think George could'nt do now or incapable of doing later other then maybe a decent 3pt shot, which George seemed better at in college than in the NBA but I don't think that that won't come along with time. George has one of the smoothest shots in the league I think it'll come around.

Brooks has a different skill set than George, and will be much better than Rush or Jones.

Pacersalltheway10
06-15-2011, 03:16 PM
Seriously this team is about one wing short of a bucket from KFC. I will be very ho-hum if we add yet another wing player to this team. There's nothing this guy does that I don't think George could'nt do now or incapable of doing later other then maybe a decent 3pt shot, which George seemed better at in college than in the NBA but I don't think that that won't come along with time. George has one of the smoothest shots in the league I think it'll come around.

Rush and Dunleavy are likely gone.

PR07
06-15-2011, 03:26 PM
Any team really needs three good wings.

MyFavMartin
06-15-2011, 05:03 PM
http://www.journaltimes.com/sports/article_983d0f5e-9644-11e0-9afa-001cc4c03286.html


BUCKS NOTES: Brooks works out for Bucks
GERY WOELFEL gwoelfel@journaltimes.com JournalTimes.com
Posted: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:07 am

BASKETBALL JUNKIES: On the Milwaukee Bucks Draft BASKETBALL JUNKIES: Focus on the NBA's labor issues BASKETBALL JUNKIES: On the NBA Draft Marshon Brooks has more than piqued the curiosity of the Milwaukee Bucks.

Brooks, an athletic 6-foot-5 shooting guard from Providence, had a private workout for Bucks officials Sunday in Chicago.

Normally, the Bucks work out their draft prospects at their training facility in St. Francis. But because of a scheduling conflict, the Bucks and Seth Cohen, Brooks' agent, agreed to meet in the Windy City.

The Bucks put Brooks through a 1 hour workout and came away impressed. Assistant general manager Jeff Weltman and player personnel director Dave Babcock were among the Bucks officials in attendance.

"The Bucks like him a lot,'' Cohen said. "The Bucks are now looking to bring him there (to Milwaukee) for another workout.''T

hat might not happen, though. Cohen said his client already has several scheduled workouts before the June 23 draft, including three this week, starting today with the Chicago Bulls.

"Obviously, time is running out,'' Cohen said. "But I'll try to do everything humanly possible to get him up there.''

Brooks was the nation's second-leading scorer this season, averaging 24.6 points a game. He had two exceptional scoring games: a 43-point performance against Georgetown and a 52-point outburst against Notre Dame.

While Brooks' scoring skills are apparent, some observers have questioned his team play and ability to share the ball.

But Brooks insists he's a team player.

"I'm not a selfish player by any means,'' said Brooks, who played point guard his sophomore season at Providence. "That was my role. They (Providence coaches) wanted me to score the ball.''

While Brooks had a banner senior season at Providence, he raised a lot of eyebrows at the Chicago pre-draft camp last month with his exceptional athleticism.

His wing span was measured at a freakish 7-foot-1 and he exhibited an impressive 38-inch vertical leap.

Those measurables, combined with some recent quality workouts, have made Brooks one of the biggest "risers'' in the draft.

Once considered a late-first to early-second round pick, Brooks is regarded by some teams as a fringe lottery selection.

The Bucks, who have the 10th overall selection, are in the market for a shooting guard-small forward type.

Brooks is believed to be one of four shooting guards drawing close scrutiny from the Bucks.

The others are Alec Burks of Colorado, who is generally regarded as the best shooting guard in the draft and recently worked out for the Bucks; Klay Thompson of Washington State, who is generally considered the best pure shooter among two guard prospects, and Jordan Hamilton of Texas who, at 6-7, has exceptional size and a potent offensive game.

Hamilton and Thompson are expected to work out for the Bucks on Wednesday.

- Bucks assistant coach Kelvin Sampson will have a formal interview with Detroit Pistons executives this week.

The Pistons are looking to fill their vacant head coaching position after firing John Kuester.

Sampson is highly-regarded in the coaching ranks. He joined the Bucks' coaching staff three years ago after compiling an outstanding college record at Oklahoma (279-109) and Indiana (43-14).

Twice, Sampson was chosen the National Coach of the Year.

- Wisconsin forward Jon Leuer will be working out for the Bucks next Tuesday.

Leuer, a projected late-first to early-second round pick, is on a whirlwind tour of the NBA.

He worked out for Cleveland Monday and will work out for Houston and Portland before attending Badger teammate Joe Krabbenhoft's wedding on Saturday in Sioux Falls, S.D.

Leuer said he expects to have worked out for 15 teams - or half of the entire NBA - before the draft.

- From the hard-to-believe but true department: The Bucks beat the world champion Dallas Mavericks in both of their games this season: 103-99 on Dec. 13 in Dallas and 99-87 on Jan. 1 in Milwaukee.

ballism
06-15-2011, 06:36 PM
Thorpe on Marshon Brooks:



Sometimes a player in the draft just has that look. Not just a passing-the-eye-test look, but something bigger. Maybe he just has the perfect combination of size, length, speed, savvy and raw production, like Paul George did last year, despite playing on a less-than-great college team. Other times he has similar movements to an NBA great, teasing team decision-makers with the thought that perhaps he can evolve into his NBA look-alike.

No player in this draft is drawing more late-in-coming raves than Marshon Brooks from Providence, in part because he's physically similar to George. But to get this much buzz it takes more than a Paul George comparison, and Brooks can thank none other than Kobe Bryant for his rapid mock-draft ascension.

Does he really resemble Kobe, the iconic scoring guard? Yes, but not in most of the ways that matter most, and that is the problem.

Multiple men with trained eyes, including Bryant's current trainer, Tim Grover, and Chad Ford have seen "a little bit" of Kobe when they watch Brooks play. I also saw things that connected the two of them: big hands that palm the ball like it's a sponge and long arms that make it tough for a defender to get at the ball when Brooks is in motion or as he nears the rim for a layup. And some of his general movements as a player look strikingly similar to things we've seen from Kobe hundreds of times.

To be fair, Brooks has more in common with Kobe than just similar long limbs and movements. He's a scorer, pure and simple, and he's always in attack mode. Brooks had the ball in his hands more than almost any college player this season but averaged just 2.5 assists. I'm not convinced Brooks sees the game well, unlike Kobe, who chooses to shoot often but knows where to pass at all times.

Brooks does share something with Kobe as an offensive player that is not so good -- he takes bad shots. No player I've studied this season had worse shot selection than Brooks, who took 197 3-pointers, just 22 fewer than the number of free throws he earned. As a comparison, Kobe shot at least twice as many free throws as 3-pointers each season from his second NBA season to his eighth. For his college career, Brooks attempted 475 3s (and made 33 percent) and 402 free throws. Kobe, even after many seasons in which his somewhat worn-out legs forced him to take a lot more 3s, has still never even come close to taking as many 3s as he has free throws made in any season. For his career, he's made over 7,000 free throws and attempted 4,185 3s.

So what does Kobe have that Brooks doesn't that helps us understand why there is such a disparity? It's all about quickness with the ball. Kobe has it in tight spaces with great speed after two steps, and Brooks only has the speed part of the game down. Give him room, and he can get to a pace that some defenders cannot reach, and that allows him to get into the paint. But when crowded, he does not have the quicks to beat a decent defender to the rim. His amazing arm length suggests he'll be able to find ways to get the ball past a defender on drives and up toward the hole, which puts him in the company of someone such as Tyreke Evans, a crafty dribbler who uses his dimensions to make paint shots. But Brooks does not have the build to do so, at least not yet. If he can get much more powerful, his ability to score in the NBA goes way up. There are few men playing basketball today that have the kind of dribbling skill combined with a power forward's strength as Evans has.

Brooks has a strong handle and takes long steps when he drives, which allows him to get past slower defenders as he races to the rim. However, like Evans, he's not any kind of elite-level high jumper, another very obvious difference from Kobe.

Brooks can be a very good defender, wrapping up wings thanks to those arms, but we didn't see that in college. As an example, Evans had 77 steals as a freshman at Memphis. Brooks had just 48 as a senior in roughly the same number of minutes.

Yes, it is amazing to see Brooks play and literally see Kobe here and there. But as it relates to where he gets his points, quickness with the ball, star-level athleticism or playmaking on defense from, there simply is no comparison. Brooks is a hot name now and can certainly get drafted in Round 1, but in a stronger draft he'd be stuck as a second-round prospect who would not be assured of having an NBA career.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?name=nba_draft&id=6619525&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fblog%3fname%3dnba_draft%26id%3d6619525

Isaac
06-15-2011, 06:41 PM
Super stoked on Brooks right now, and here's why... check out 1:34 in this vid:

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9v8W2pumHX8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That's an NBA move if I ever saw one. The guy has a very good mid-range game which, as LeBron learned against Dallas, is hugely important in this league. I would love to see Marshon in a Pacers uni, but I would be very, very surprised if he's still available at 15 in this pathetic draft.

Am I the only one not at all impressed with the move at 1:34?

Banta
06-15-2011, 07:08 PM
Brooks is who I want. Reminds me of a young Kobe.

That is exactly what I think when I watch him.

IU_sears
06-15-2011, 11:45 PM
this is exactly what we need... a scorer that can shoot the jumper and create off of the dribble... How many games did we lose last season when the offense bogged down and we couldn't get a hoop for 4-5 minute stretches? We need a creator in iso situations... DG33 is not a good iso player in crunch time due to his lack of handles and this issue needs to be addressed either in FA or the draft. I hope we can land Marshon or Alec Burks to fill that void.

LA_Confidential
06-16-2011, 12:07 AM
Brooks or Burks, I'd be happy with either but would much rather have Brooks. They are both great shooters but difference the between the two is that Burks relies on athleticism to get to the basket. Brooks does as well but has a much more polished intermediate/mid-range game.

Brooks knows how to get to his "spot" which would be a very good late game Iso option for the Pacers. Clutch baskets.

Merz
06-16-2011, 08:46 AM
More on Marshon (also Burks, Fredette, and Walker)

http://www.thehoopsreport.com/article.aspx?id=747

bphil
06-16-2011, 09:04 AM
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that we have no shot at Brooks, which is a bummer. He's my favorite player in this draft.

bphil
06-16-2011, 09:07 AM
Am I the only one not at all impressed with the move at 1:34?

Probably.

MUpaceSIC
06-16-2011, 09:17 AM
Probably.

Eh, I thought it was going to be something more as well. Still love Marshon's game though.

Ownagedood
06-16-2011, 09:20 AM
I haven't really seen him play, i watched a game or two of Providence last year but wasn't playing close attention to the individual players.

But from what i see from his stats and his measureables i would love to have him. He scored (Estimates, i looked him up yesterday) About 25 ppg, Shooting 48%, 7 rbg, 1.3 stls, 1.1 blks and hes a 6'5 SG with a 7'1 Wingspan... That attracts my attention.

Kid Minneapolis
06-16-2011, 09:35 AM
I haven't really seen him play, i watched a game or two of Providence last year but wasn't playing close attention to the individual players.

But from what i see from his stats and his measureables i would love to have him. He scored (Estimates, i looked him up yesterday) About 25 ppg, Shooting 48%, 7 rbg, 1.3 stls, 1.1 blks and hes a 6'5 SG with a 7'1 Wingspan... That attracts my attention.

It's not just about stats. You gotta see all the ways he can score, his fantastic footwork, and how balanced and efficient and purposeful every movement is. He's got Kobe-like body control, even in the air. The way he jumps, spins and kicks his feet is just like Kobe and is exactly what you want to see in someone who would be an ISO type player, which is, imo, the one glaring skill we lack on the Pacers.

I'm afraid the rest of the draft world is catching on now and he's not going to be available to us... unless we trade up.

bphil
06-16-2011, 01:21 PM
Eh, I thought it was going to be something more as well. Still love Marshon's game though.

Something more? Like what, another uncontested fast break highlight dunk? Whooptie-friggin-do.

The kid throws a ball fake, off-hand dribble with a jab, quick back step to get separation, then drains a fade like it's nothing. No pick required, he got that all on his own, and it was natural and fluid as hell. That's the kind of thing you have to be able to do to consistently create your own shot in the NBA. A killer mid-range game like that is what separates a guy like Kobe from a guy like Brandon Rush. If Brandon Rush had moves like that in his arsenal he'd be a star. But he doesn't, so he's not.

Shade
06-16-2011, 02:28 PM
It's not just about stats. You gotta see all the ways he can score, his fantastic footwork, and how balanced and efficient and purposeful every movement is. He's got Kobe-like body control, even in the air. The way he jumps, spins and kicks his feet is just like Kobe and is exactly what you want to see in someone who would be an ISO type player, which is, imo, the one glaring skill we lack on the Pacers.

I'm afraid the rest of the draft world is catching on now and he's not going to be available to us... unless we trade up.

I wonder if packaging Rush with the #15 would allow us to move up at all...

BornReady
06-16-2011, 02:39 PM
I wonder if packaging Rush with the #15 would allow us to move up at all...

the thing is, is there anyone really worth moving up for? unless its like...significantly higher?

Shade
06-16-2011, 02:44 PM
the thing is, is there anyone really worth moving up for? unless its like...significantly higher?

I mean for Brooks, in case he starts to mock higher.

pacer4ever
06-16-2011, 02:51 PM
Brooks is who I want. Reminds me of a young Kobe.

that should be considered blasphemy

Kemo
06-16-2011, 03:00 PM
that should be considered blasphemy


How is that? lol it isn't like he said Brooks WOULD be the next Kobe..

I agree with him though.. I watched Kobe around when he was drafted, and I can definitely see the comparisons in their game..

LA_Confidential
06-16-2011, 03:01 PM
Super stoked on Brooks right now, and here's why... check out 1:34 in this vid:

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9v8W2pumHX8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


I enjoy watching this video so much that I'm actually sick of looking at it. Get him Larry!

CableKC
06-16-2011, 03:02 PM
the thing is, is there anyone really worth moving up for? unless its like...significantly higher?
Given BRush's likely standing on the Team....if the cost of moving up a few spots to get a Player that we want ( Jimmer or Brooks ) is to give up BRush, then I have no problem paying that cost.

BornReady
06-16-2011, 03:03 PM
do you really think Brooks goes before 15?

pacer4ever
06-16-2011, 03:04 PM
How is that? lol it isn't like he said Brooks WOULD be the next Kobe..

I agree with him though.. I watched Kobe around when he was drafted, and I can definitely see the comparisons in their game..

he might rememble him in some way but he has more nick young in his game IMO than Kobe.(Nick Young was a stud coming out of HS some compared him to Kobe i know what you mean by the comparison i just don't like comparing anyone to Kobe except maybe Dwade)

pacer4ever
06-16-2011, 03:04 PM
do you really think Brooks goes before 15?

If i was the Bucks i would take him that is exactly what the Bucks need him or Burks tough choice.

CableKC
06-16-2011, 03:04 PM
It's been mentioned by many experts that the Pacers are looking for a Player that can "create for others"....can Brooks do that NOW?

Remember...there's a difference between being able to "create for others" NOW as opposed to "learning to create for others" later.

Kid Minneapolis
06-16-2011, 03:07 PM
I thought Collison was supposed to be that? I've heard they need a player who can ISO.

Speed
06-16-2011, 03:07 PM
I could see Jimmer going 7 or 12 or 13. Brooks going 10 or 14. I think both could very easily be off the board. You have to think though, if those two go 'early', who drops?

It seems like a limited group of guys who can be good offensively with the ball in their hands in this draft, therefore its a premium.

It could mean a good PF drops, but I'm very tepid on the PF group. Marcus Morris had a really good workout in Phillie and they seem to like him alot. Three foreign born PFs will be gone in Jonas, Vesley, and Kanter.

Who does that leave for the Pacers? Tristan Thompson, Markief Morris?

I guess if Brooks and Jimmer are gone it could mean a guy like Biyombo drops.

I wonder if Kanter drops, it seems like almost every workout he's had he's 'okay' when he's against people. I still don't see him falling to 15.

Look there are 16 plus guys you can project which means you have someone available.

Shade
06-16-2011, 03:07 PM
do you really think Brooks goes before 15?

Yes, I think there's a good chance he does.

BornReady
06-16-2011, 03:08 PM
Yes, I think there's a good chance he does.

QQ. in that case, trade up! :D

pacer4ever
06-16-2011, 03:21 PM
It's been mentioned by many experts that the Pacers are looking for a Player that can "create for others"....can Brooks do that NOW?

Remember...there's a difference between being able to "create for others" NOW as opposed to "learning to create for others" later.

That would be more Alex Burks

LA_Confidential
06-16-2011, 03:27 PM
It's been mentioned by many experts that the Pacers are looking for a Player that can "create for others"....can Brooks do that NOW?

Remember...there's a difference between being able to "create for others" NOW as opposed to "learning to create for others" later.

Good question. If he can and we get him, then it would be good to bring him in the game off the bench and allow DC to play off the ball a little.

Speed
06-16-2011, 03:27 PM
Here I'll take it right off the Tiers article.

Irving
D Williams

Kanter
Knight
Kawhi
Jonas
Vesley
Kemba

Those 8 aren't getting to 15 by almost all accounts.

Biyombo
Alex Burks
Jimmer
Marcus Morris
Chris Singleton
Klay Thompson
Tristan Thompson

Thats 15, out of this group I'm not excited about Tristan Thompson or Klay Thompson. I'm on the fence about Biyombo and Marcus Morris, but for this discussion lets leave them in, but take out the Thompsons. That puts you back at 13.

Then you have

Marshon Brooks
Kenneth Faried
Tobias Harris

For me, I like these 3, well Tobias Harris is a fencer too, for me. Still, this brings you to 16 viable guys I like.

You could add Markieff Morris, Jordan Hamilton to the fence guys too, for me, and maybe Donatas.

Very worse case scenario, for me is this.

Irving
D Williams
Kanter
Knight
Kawhi
Jonas
Vesley
Kemba
Biyombo
Alex Burks
Jimmer
Marcus Morris
Chris Singleton
Marshon Brooks

If this happens, you have these 7 left to pick from.

Faried
Klay Thompson
Tristan Thompson
Tobias Harris
Markief Morris
Jordan Hamilton
Donatas Motiejunas

I'd take Faried.

Its why, I really really hope that one or both Thompsons are picked before the Pacers pick, if so, someone is falling that I like. If both are called, then you may have one or two Marshon Brooks, Burks, Marcus Morris, or Singleton there for you.

Kid Minneapolis
06-16-2011, 03:35 PM
If we stay at #15, my draft order is:

1) Brooks
2) Jimmer
3) Burks
4) Faried
5) Jeremy Tyler

CableKC
06-16-2011, 03:54 PM
It sounds like Brooks is a ball-dominant guard that appears ( and I could be wrong on this ) to need the ball in his hand to be effective.

Is this the case?

If it is....then the question then becomes...can he create for others?

AND

Can he be effective "Off the Ball"?

pacer4ever
06-16-2011, 04:09 PM
It sounds like Brooks is a ball-dominant guard that appears ( and I could be wrong on this ) to need the ball in his hand to be effective.

Is this the case?

If it is....then the question then becomes...can he create for others?

AND

Can he be effective "Off the Ball"?

like i said in the other thread Alex Burk's is the guy who is a playmaker at the SG. From what ive seen from Marshon he isn't a playmaker but his team sucked so it is hard to tell. But Burks team sucked as well and he still was a good playmaker. So my guess is Marshon can be a spot up shooter and create for himself with the ball in his hand much like nick young or jamal crawford or jordan crawford.

EDIT: but what i would like is to get Reggie Jackson to play SG as well as PG. He can make the spot up 3 and create for himself off the dribble and others is a great playmaker at the SG position.(that is all depending if he can guard 2s at the next level which i think he can he did a good job of guarding big bigger guys in college Harrison Barnes for example)

but to be fair to Marshon i have only seen highlights and his stats of his i will get to watch game footage of his on june 20th then maybe i will have a different opinion

CooperManning
06-16-2011, 04:19 PM
How did Burks earn his playmaker reputation with 1.8 ast/game his freshman year and 2.9 ast/game his sophomore year?

Kid Minneapolis
06-16-2011, 04:21 PM
like i said in the other thread Alex Burk's is the guy who is a playmaker at the SG. From what ive seen from Marshon he isn't a playmaker but his team sucked so it is hard to tell. But Burks team sucked as well and he still was a good playmaker. So my guess is Marshon can be a spot up shooter and create for himself with the ball in his hand much like nick young or jamal crawford or jordan crawford.

EDIT: but what i would like is to get Reggie Jackson to play SG as well as PG. He can make the spot up 3 and create for himself off the dribble and others is a great playmaker at the SG position.(that is all depending if he can guard 2s at the next level which i think he can he did a good job of guarding big bigger guys in college Harrison Barnes for example)

but to be fair to Marshon i have only seen highlights and his stats of his i will get to watch game footage of his on june 20th then maybe i will have a different opinion

Brooks has shown a very good passing ability in his pre-draft work-outs, it's been noted in a couple of articles. He also destroyed Burks 1-on-1 in Milwaukee (http://www.qwerty.web.id/2011-nba-mock-draft-marshon-brooks-embarrasses-alec-burks-in-milwauke-workout/).

pacer4ever
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
How did Burks earn his playmaker reputation with 1.8 ast/game his freshman year and 2.9 ast/game his sophomore year?

Read Tbird and almost every write up of his that i have read compares his game to Brandon Roy and how he is a good playmaker.



Unlike most big-time scorers from small(er) colleges, Burks is a fairly unselfish player who is more than capable of making the extra pass. Even if he's often asked to be the one creating and finishing shots for his team (particularly late in the shot clock), he's a nice weapon to have in a half-court offense thanks to his solid court vision and good basketball IQ. When Colorado's starting point guard goes to the bench, Burks will man the position, which is a good indication of the versatility he brings to the table.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Alec-Burks-5819/#ixzz1PTMbh000
http://www.draftexpress.com

bphil
06-16-2011, 04:27 PM
Brooks has shown a very good passing ability in his pre-draft work-outs, it's been noted in a couple of articles. He also destroyed Burks 1-on-1 in Milwaukee (http://www.qwerty.web.id/2011-nba-mock-draft-marshon-brooks-embarrasses-alec-burks-in-milwauke-workout/).

Dammit, I gotta stop reading this thread. It's depressing me. I really like Brooks and I'm now convinced that there's no chance in hell he gets past Milwaukee. This is the only thing that's giving me even a glimmer of hope right now...

Klay Thompson in MKE (http://www.journaltimes.com/sports/article_2e58d9a4-97db-11e0-90ee-001cc4c002e0.html)

Kid Minneapolis
06-16-2011, 04:29 PM
I think our only glimmer of hope is the talk of us trading up.

Pacersalltheway10
06-16-2011, 04:40 PM
How did Burks earn his playmaker reputation with 1.8 ast/game his freshman year and 2.9 ast/game his sophomore year?

Assists numbers don't always tell the whole story.

pacer4ever
06-16-2011, 04:43 PM
Assists numbers don't always tell the whole story.

ya i mean B Roy aved 3 per game in college but he pretty much was like the pg at the SG in college. It is more about the way Burks plays the game than stats.

CooperManning
06-16-2011, 04:44 PM
Yeah I wasn't doubting anyone, I was just curious.

xBulletproof
06-16-2011, 05:44 PM
Crazy how the last year everyone kept harping on how badly we need to trade out of this draft, now everyone is clamoring to trade up.

Weird.

NapTonius Monk
06-16-2011, 06:49 PM
I think our only glimmer of hope is the talk of us trading up.
Who are we talking about trading up with? And targeting whom, Brooks?

NapTonius Monk
06-16-2011, 07:15 PM
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Finding-a-Niche-For-Marshon-Brooks-3756


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2>
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</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>Finding a Niche For: Marshon Brooks</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>by: Joseph Treutlein - Director of Scouting</TD></TR><TR><TD>June 16, 2011</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>Marshon Brooks (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marshon-Brooks-6347/) was the second leading scorer in the entire NCAA as a senior and measured out extremely well at the NBA Draft Combine, yet there are questions about whether his style of basketball is conducive to winning and what type of adjustments he'll need to make as a pro. What would be the most likely way for him to find success in the NBA?

Playing a small role for Providence in his first two seasons, Brooks gradually improved his game his first three years in school and then exploded onto the scene as a senior. Not on the draft radar at all until his senior season, Brooks' huge numbers made NBA scouts give him a second look, and his impressive showing at the combine has only added to his buzz.

While Brooks has improved his skills in a variety of areas, passes the eye test, and frequently flashes an abundance of NBA abilities, there are still many questions about how his game will translate to the NBA, especially due to the extremely ball-dominant role he played as a senior.

An extremely potent scorer who used a ton of possessions as a senior, Marshon Brooks (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marshon-Brooks-6347/) created a staggering amount of his own offense, with an incredible 29.5% of his possessions coming in isolation. Despite playing the shooting guard position in his team's offense, Brooks plays with the ball in his hands as often as many point guards, and has no conscience about creating his own shot at any point during the shot clock from anywhere within 30 feet of the basket.

Brooks' scoring skill set is very advanced, as he's capable of scoring inside and out in a variety of ways, having extreme confidence in virtually every aspect of his scoring game. Brooks relies on contested pull-up jumpers for the majority of his offense, and he's capable of knocking down very high difficulty shots of this variety. Unfortunately, he's also highly prone to taking ill-advised shots early in the shot clock, showing very questionable decision-making in that regard.

An interesting thing to note about Brooks' scoring offense is that in spite of his absurd amount of isolations and propensity for difficult shots, he still posted very strong efficiency numbers as a senior, a hard feat to pull off given the style he plays. Brooks' 1.01 points per possession ranks in the 88th percentile of NCAA players according to Synergy and his 58% True Shooting Percentage ranks 6th of the 24 shooting guards (http://www.draftexpress.com/stats.php?sort=9&q=eff&league=NCAA&year=2010%2F11&per=pergame&min=20&stage=all&conference=0&pos=SG&qual=top100&field%5B1%5D=0&sign%5B1%5D=%3E&val%5B1%5D=&field%5B2%5D=0&sign%5B2%5D=%3E&val%5B2%5D=&field%5B3%5D=0&sign%5B3%5D=%3E&val%5B3%5D=&field%5B4%5D=0&sign%5B4%5D=%3E&val%5B4%5D=) in our top-100 rankings. His team, Providence, was one of the fastest tempo (http://kenpom.com/index.php?s=RankAdjTempo) teams in college basketball, which may have helped in that regard.

While stylistically he may play like most inefficient volume shooters, he actually was able to post very strong efficiency numbers overall at the college level. Looking to the NBA, the story will likely be quite different, as there are very few All-Stars who play the kind of dominant offensive role Brooks played in college, so a role adjustment is inevitable under any circumstances.

Doing the majority of his damage offensively with this perimeter jump shot, Brooks is highly capable both off the dribble and spotting up, though he's far more consistent with the latter. When spotting up, Brooks has outstanding form, boasting a high and quick release along with excellent balance, though these opportunities are rare given the role he plays in his team's offense. Of the 234 jump shots Brooks took in the half court setting according to Synergy this season, just 27 were of the unguarded, catch-and-shoot variety, but he scored a lethal 1.7 points per shot on those attempts.

With his off-the-dribble jumpers, Brooks is far more inconsistent, as his mechanics frequently break down, making him prone to some very errant misses. He has a strong tendency to unnecessarily fade away and exhibits poor balance in these situations, not squaring his shoulders to the basket and often forcing up difficult shots with a hand in his face. That said, his length and shot-creating ability allow him to get separation for his shot with ease, and if he can develop more consistency and become more selective with his opportunities, he has more potential in this area of his game.

Brooks will undoubtedly have a smaller offensive role in the NBA, making his team less reliant on him to create his own shot off the dribble, which could be a great boon to his scoring efficiency. On the other hand, it's tough to say whether the tendencies and questionable decision-making he's developed in this area of his game will be undone so easily. His abilities in this area of his game are quite clearly a valuable asset, but finding a proper balance and exhibiting better restraint in shot selection will be critical to his long-term success.

Brooks also has a strong ability to attack the basket out of isolation situations, though it clearly takes a backseat to his perimeter jumper in his approach to the game. Having a very sure-handed dribble with very long strides, Brooks is dangerous taking his man to the basket in spite of his lack of a great first step.

He isn't the greatest finisher at the basket, as he could improve both his strength and his aggressiveness going strong to the rim, but he got to the line at a strong rate as a senior, posting a 0.38 FTA/FGA ratio, something he vastly improved from his junior season. He also has a nice floater in his arsenal, taking full advantage of his terrific 7'1 wingspan to easily get it off at any time in the lane. With continued work, his floaters and runners have the potential to be a very solid weapon in the NBA.

While Brooks is more than capable of scoring both on jumpers and in the lane, the biggest question from an NBA perspective is how he'll get in position to do so, something that will be interesting to watch as he gets his opportunities in the league.

Playing with the ball in his hands so often and having free reign to take shots whenever and wherever he wanted, Brooks didn't do a ton of off-ball movement at Providence, with just 6.7% of his possessions coming off cuts and 1.2% of his possessions coming around screens according to Synergy. No team is likely to run their offense through Brooks in the pros (and if they do, definitely not nearly to the extent Providence did), so adapting to get more shots in that manner will be important.

Brooks' passing game also leaves much to be desired, as while he occasionally will show flashes of solid court vision and passing ability, he frequently displays tunnel vision looking for his own scoring, having no problem settling for a high difficulty shot with 30 seconds remaining on the clock before even looking at other options. He ranks as the second worst passer (http://www.draftexpress.com/stats.php?year=2010%2F11&q=usage&per=pergame&qual=sec2011&sort=16&min=20&stage=all&league=NCAA&conference=0&pos=SG&sort2=ASC) of all shooting guards projected to be drafted, which illustrates his struggles in this area.

On the defensive end, Brooks has a very intriguing set of tools, possessing a smothering 7'1 wingspan and a solid frame that appears it can put on a bit more strength. His fundamentals aren't bad and he has good but not great lateral quickness, being capable of staying in front of most opponents in college.

At the college level, Brooks was a solid defender overall, frequently showing a good energy level and not giving up on plays, but never really exhibiting the lockdown potential you'd expect from someone with his tools. He's prone to overplaying the ball by going for quick steals, and also can get juked quite easily on spin moves and other quick changes of direction, though he does an excellent job of contesting shots with his length when he's in front of his man.

To be fair, the amount of energy Brooks expended on offense as a senior could have prevented him from doing the same on defense, and it will be interesting to see how he adjusts on this end as a result of his inevitable offensive role change. He's capable of being a much more disruptive force both on and off the ball.

Looking forward, it's a bit tough to say how Brooks would best fit in the NBA initially, as there are a large number of unknown variables in projecting his game, which will likely require a major role adjustment. If he's taken earlier in the draft by a dismal team in need of someone to create offense, he'll likely be more comfortable transitioning to the league, and may even be able to produce big numbers, but it's unlikely it would contribute to winning basketball, similarly to was the case at Providence.

Being drafted later by a more established team would mean less initial minutes and much more of an adjustment, but could be the best for Brooks in the long-term if he embraces coaching and structure, as he has a number of skills that could be highly useful in a team-oriented setting.

Surely one of the more enigmatic prospects in this year's draft, Marshon Brooks (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marshon-Brooks-6347/) likely has the most varied projections by NBA scouts of any player in the class. He clearly has a ton of natural scoring ability, strong physical tools, and a ton of skills, but how he can adapt that package into playing winning basketball is yet to be seen. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD>

naptownmenace
06-17-2011, 10:49 AM
Great article with an honest breakdown of his Pros and Cons. I never got to see him play but from the videos of his highlights and workouts he reminds me of Marquis Daniels with a much better jumper. A 6'6" guy with a 7'1" wingspan? That's freakishly awesome!

If he's still on the board when the 15th pick comes up, I hope the Pacers draft him.

owl
06-17-2011, 10:51 AM
Work-out video....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mq-JMf1szk

Speed
06-17-2011, 10:52 AM
Marquis is a good comparison! He moves like Kobe, thats where the comparisons end, but if he's Marquis and stays healthy, thats a good player at 15.

Kid Minneapolis
06-17-2011, 10:53 AM
Who are we talking about trading up with? And targeting whom, Brooks?

No clue. There were tweets yesterday from someone in the know stating that Indy was actively pursuing moving up in the draft, without much details. One of them said the 4th pick possibly, and I'd have no clue who they're targetting at that spot... surely they wouldn't draft Brooks at #4.

But the key point was that they were looking to possibly move up in some capacity.

The Sleeze
06-17-2011, 11:59 AM
It looks like if the Pacers move up will it have to be ahead of Milwaukee at 10, as they seem to be really high on Marshon. It will be interesting to see if they pick him if Burks is still available.

Speed
06-17-2011, 12:02 PM
Has Burks been here for a workout, he seems to be dropping. I said this earlier, but supposedly Marshon "lit up" Burks in a workout in Charlotte.

xIndyFan
06-17-2011, 12:08 PM
jmo, but if the pacers miss out on brooks, they will get a chance at someone else just as good. burks or one of the texas guys maybe. :shrug: none of these guys are going to be kobe bryant. none of the wings is going to be anything but a backup on the pacers. backup wings are an easy commodity to find. anytime.

ideally all the teams in front of the pacers will take wings. leaving the pacers with a chance to draft a big that can help.

Pacersalltheway10
06-17-2011, 12:13 PM
jmo, but if the pacers miss out on brooks, they will get a chance at someone else just as good. burks or one of the texas guys maybe. :shrug: none of these guys are going to be kobe bryant. none of the wings is going to be anything but a backup on the pacers. backup wings are an easy commodity to find. anytime.

ideally all the teams in front of the pacers will take wings. leaving the pacers with a chance to draft a big that can help.

No bigs in this draft would be good for anything other than depth.Except for biyombo who could be a star but I don't see him slipping past GS.

The Jackson shimmy
06-17-2011, 12:42 PM
I've no opinion on Brooks as I haven't caught any Providence games
(ie, in a 5-on-5 setting) in the last couple years.

As far as I'm concerned, workout performances should have very, very
little bearing on sizing up a kid's game.

Kid Minneapolis
06-17-2011, 12:58 PM
I've no opinion on Brooks as I haven't caught any Providence games
(ie, in a 5-on-5 setting) in the last couple years.

As far as I'm concerned, workout performances should have very, very
little bearing on sizing up a kid's game.

There's this new technology called "YouTube"... oughtta check it out. You'll find that there's more than workouts on there.

glazedham42
06-17-2011, 01:06 PM
I've no opinion on Brooks as I haven't caught any Providence games
(ie, in a 5-on-5 setting) in the last couple years.

As far as I'm concerned, workout performances should have very, very
little bearing on sizing up a kid's game.

Well, I'll tell you one thing. The 52 that Brooks dropped on Notre Dame sure isn't hurting his draft stock. Nor is the 43 he put on Georgetown two weeks before that.

90'sNBARocked
06-17-2011, 01:07 PM
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0mq-JMf1szk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9v8W2pumHX8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

glazedham42
06-17-2011, 01:12 PM
When Marshon spots up I think his shot, especially his release, really looks a lot more like Billups to me than Kobe. Now, when he's on the move and he kind of sticks his off arm out a little bit to then side and then pulls up, that reminds me of Kobe a little. But I think when he spots up his shot looks like Billlups, which isn't a bad thing.

90'sNBARocked
06-17-2011, 01:13 PM
i like him a lot, the onmly thing that scares me is : is he domminating bnecause he is a 4 year senior? and why havent we heard about him up until this year?

Shade
06-17-2011, 02:22 PM
i like him a lot, the onmly thing that scares me is : is he domminating bnecause he is a 4 year senior? and why havent we heard about him up until this year?

He didn't really emerge until his senior season when Providence started running the offense through him.

CableKC
06-17-2011, 05:45 PM
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Finding-a-Niche-For-Marshon-Brooks-3756

Playing with the ball in his hands so often and having free reign to take shots whenever and wherever he wanted, Brooks didn't do a ton of off-ball movement at Providence, with just 6.7% of his possessions coming off cuts and 1.2% of his possessions coming around screens according to Synergy. No team is likely to run their offense through Brooks in the pros (and if they do, definitely not nearly to the extent Providence did), so adapting to get more shots in that manner will be important.

Brooks' passing game also leaves much to be desired, as while he occasionally will show flashes of solid court vision and passing ability, he frequently displays tunnel vision looking for his own scoring, having no problem settling for a high difficulty shot with 30 seconds remaining on the clock before even looking at other options. He ranks as the second worst passer of all shooting guards projected to be drafted, which illustrates his struggles in this area.
I keep on reading about Brooks and have no doubt that he has very strong offensive skills....but I'm more concerned about his ability to move the ball around and not be as effective if he does not have the ball in his hand as much.

I see him as a very solid scorer...but I don't want another Flip Murray on the team where I see that once the ball gets in his hands...I pretty much know that he's going to try to score the ball and not pass it.

Hoop
06-17-2011, 06:17 PM
Well, I'll tell you one thing. The 52 that Brooks dropped on Notre Dame sure isn't hurting his draft stock. Nor is the 43 he put on Georgetown two weeks before that.
The impressive thing to me is, he is not just a volume shooter, shooting a horrible %. He shoot 48% on a crappy team where he was the guy you had to stop.

I've not seen one second of him playing in a actual game, besides highlight clips. So I'm just going by his impressive offensive stats.

Speed
06-17-2011, 06:18 PM
Hmph, Interesting.......

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/blog_brunner.html

Much was made (thank you, Michael Grady) of Marshon Brooks' explosive performance in the closing stages of his matchup with Klay Thompson in the June 7 workout. But observers who watched the entire workout said Thompson got the better of Brooks for the balance of the duel, a fact later confirmed by both players.

The Sleeze
06-17-2011, 07:33 PM
In Klay's interview with the Pacers he talked about how Marshon was hitting everything and got the better of him.

Did anybody else notice this about Klay(from HoopsHype):
......Lacks elite level athleticism but his length helps to make up for his lack of speed and leaping ability. His marijuana charge at the end of the season isn't considered to be a huge detriment to his stock.

CableKC
06-17-2011, 08:47 PM
Hmph, Interesting.......

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/blog_brunner.html

Much was made (thank you, Michael Grady) of Marshon Brooks' explosive performance in the closing stages of his matchup with Klay Thompson in the June 7 workout. But observers who watched the entire workout said Thompson got the better of Brooks for the balance of the duel, a fact later confirmed by both players.
Based off of TBird's analysis of Klay Thompson....I'm not surprised that an average athletic SG like Klay Thompson that is average on the defensive end ( at best ) was burned by the 2nd leading Scorer in the NCAA that can score in various ways while being a super athletic WingMan.

CableKC
06-17-2011, 08:51 PM
In Klay's interview with the Pacers he talked about how Marshon was hitting everything and got the better of him.

Did anybody else notice this about Klay(from HoopsHype):
......Lacks elite level athleticism but his length helps to make up for his lack of speed and leaping ability. His marijuana charge at the end of the season isn't considered to be a huge detriment to his stock.
I saw that mentioned on the NBA Combine.....if he was one of the 3 that Bird was thinking of...I don't think that it's big of a deal...unless there has been multiple violations...I'd chalk it up to a one time only thing.

Kid Minneapolis
06-17-2011, 08:51 PM
So... is that an endorsement against Marshon's explosive offense, or Klay's average defense, CableKC?

And the mary jane "not a big deal thing"... we said the same thing about Rush at first.

CableKC
06-17-2011, 09:03 PM
So... is that an endorsement against Marshon's explosive offense, or Klay's average defense, CableKC?
Neither....I guess.

Everyone knows about Brook's explosive Offense. IMHO....I'm just not going to put too much into Brook's performance against Klay and say that Brooks is a better SG then Klay based off of that performance.

It's like having James Jones ( who TBird compares Klay to ) defend Kobe ( who others have compared Brooks to ) going one on one......I fully expect an explosive and athletic scorer like Kobe ( Brooks ) to light an average defender and athlete like James Jones ( Klay ) up like a roman candle.

I'd be okay with drafting Brooks at #15...as I think that he's a good value pick at that spot as I have no doubts about his offensive skills and perfectly fits that "low risk/high reward" mold......but I would be okay if we passed on him as well ( depending on who we do draft ) as I do have concerns about his ability to play off the ball, pass it when he's double teamed and not going into "me ball" mode as opposed to "we ball" mode. His offensive role on his current Team would change to a different one on the Pacers and I'm more concerned about whether he'd be able to fit.

CableKC
06-17-2011, 09:05 PM
And the mary jane "not a big deal thing"... we said the same thing about Rush at first.
I can't disagree here....I'm just saying that I don't know if we are talking about a 1 time violation or multiple violations.

I just hope that Bird do much better on "vetting" him compared to when he "vetted" BRush. :shrug:

trailrunner
06-17-2011, 09:26 PM
No clue. There were tweets yesterday from someone in the know stating that Indy was actively pursuing moving up in the draft, without much details. One of them said the 4th pick possibly, and I'd have no clue who they're targetting at that spot... surely they wouldn't draft Brooks at #4.

But the key point was that they were looking to possibly move up in some capacity.

If we moved up to 4 I would hope Kanter is the objective. But if we have to give up Granger to get that pick what is the point?

Speed
06-17-2011, 09:38 PM
Based off of TBird's analysis of Klay Thompson....I'm not surprised that an average athletic SG like Klay Thompson that is average on the defensive end ( at best ) was burned by the 2nd leading Scorer in the NCAA that can score in various ways while being a super athletic WingMan.

No they are saying in the full workout Klay got the advantage.

Speed
06-17-2011, 09:40 PM
Hmph, Interesting.......

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/blog_brunner.html

Much was made (thank you, Michael Grady) of Marshon Brooks' explosive performance in the closing stages of his matchup with Klay Thompson in the June 7 workout. But observers who watched the entire workout said Thompson got the better of Brooks for the balance of the duel, a fact later confirmed by both players.

Thompson got the better Brooks, this is different than we've been told.

pacer4ever
06-17-2011, 09:43 PM
Thompson got the better Brooks, this is different than we've been told.

a lot of things will be different than we are told. The NBA teams are trying to deceive other teams agents will tell different story's and what not.

Just take a listen to this Jonathan Givony Talks NBA Draft and nails why the workouts are overrated very good and i agreee 100% with what he says.

http://bit.ly/ljIEH1

IndySDExport
06-18-2011, 02:16 AM
Don't know if this was posted from yahoo sports mock draft.

"
15 Indiana Pacers
Marshon Brooks SG
22 years old; 65"; 195 lbs
Providence, senior

Brooks has been rocketing up draft boards thanks to strong measurements and excellent workouts. He reportedly impressed Larry Bird so much in his workout in Indiana that the Hall of Famer could not hide his satisfaction.
"

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AvvWaJ6ActAnUyBqOx6aSsq8vLYF?slug=ycn-8648301

CableKC
06-18-2011, 03:16 AM
The only part from the Mock Draft that I picked up was this:


Cleveland could make a deal, with teams like New York, Charlotte, Indiana and Houston being active in trying to move up in the draft, but it’s not clear if anything will get done by the time the Cavs are on the clock.
I doubt that we make it all the way up to #4 given what we would have to give up to get that high......but at least it appears that the FO is trying to move up.

kellogg
06-18-2011, 11:41 AM
The more I see mocks having us pick Marshon, the more I question if he's a smokescreen. Bird's history here is that he holds his cards pretty close, or like Donnie, threw out a name that he had no real interest in (Luke Jackson). And especially in the last few seasons, with the possible exception of Tyler, I think no one would have predicted he would have drafted PG, or Lance, or Shawne, or even AJ, etc. These guys were BPA-types and didn't necessarily fit a 'need'.

The one thing I do see Bird trending to, is that unlike DW, he takes some risks, in the hope that if they pan out he will land lotto-level talent late. With few exceptions (Reggie), DW had a knack for picking guys who would be NBA players, but would not develop into superstars, he picked few busts (I don't include Bender here only because it was his injury history that limited him, and I'm not sure any GM can predict that well). What I like about Bird, is that he seems willing to roll the dice a bit, and picks BPA...which across all sports (football and basketball in particular), typically works out best.

I must admit I was a very, very huge skeptic of Bird being given the reigns after DW, but I like his picks where he's had to pick from...even Shawne now is panning out, unfortunately for us for another team. Bird seems to be able to spot ballers well, but ultimately it's on those kids to fly right after they've been handed millions and maintain focus and motivation (BRush)...there's only so much psycho-analysis a team can do.

But if a GM doesn't have the skill to spot talent the rest doesn't matter.

This draft is so wide open (unlike last year where I was really high on PG after watching his workout videos) that I've come to the conclusion that I have to trust Bird's judgement and know that he knows that at 15 in a consensus weak draft, that he will look for the BPA...again.

Justin Tyme
06-18-2011, 12:59 PM
I like Brooks, Burks, and Singleton, but they may all be gone b4 the Pacers pick. I'm leaning to go back to my original feelings of trading out of the draft for a good quality player who can give immediate help now as well as in the future at a position of need.

PacersHomer
06-18-2011, 02:48 PM
If Brooks, Bismack, and Singleton are all gone, trading out is the best possible choice. Those are the 3 players who might be at 15 that I think could have star potential. Less so with Singleton but I think he'll be a major contributor for a championship team as a defensive stopper.

pacer4ever
06-18-2011, 02:54 PM
If Brooks, Bismack, and Singleton are all gone, trading out is the best possible choice. Those are the 3 players who might be at 15 that I think could have star potential. Less so with Singleton but I think he'll be a major contributor for a championship team as a defensive stopper.

star potential? I guess i just don't see it I see all those guys as solid role players none stars.

Singleton is a sure thing as a role player he will have a great career as a defensive player and screen setter(he is the best at that is this draft IMO). If he learns to score he would be crazy good.

CableKC
06-18-2011, 02:55 PM
The one thing I do see Bird trending to, is that unlike DW, he takes some risks, in the hope that if they pan out he will land lotto-level talent late. With few exceptions (Reggie), DW had a knack for picking guys who would be NBA players, but would not develop into superstars, he picked few busts (I don't include Bender here only because it was his injury history that limited him, and I'm not sure any GM can predict that well). What I like about Bird, is that he seems willing to roll the dice a bit, and picks BPA...which across all sports (football and basketball in particular), typically works out best.
Others will have to chime in, but I think that you got it backwards....IMHO....DW is a total "swing for the fences" type of GM that does gamble on Players ( see Bender, Artest and JONeal ) whereas Bird can go both ways as a "swing for the fences or go for a single" type of GM that decides what to do based off of the situation.

kellogg
06-18-2011, 11:38 PM
Others will have to chime in, but I think that you got it backwards....IMHO....DW is a total "swing for the fences" type of GM that does gamble on Players ( see Bender, Artest and JONeal ) whereas Bird can go both ways as a "swing for the fences or go for a single" type of GM that decides what to do based off of the situation.

DW only drafted Bender, the other two were obtained in trades. Bender was one of his rare gambles, done during a time when he knew it might be a few years before he could contribute, as he had a very veteran team.

Reggie was a great player, but not a superstar. DW made solid picks but none spectacular, got good second round value at times (Antonio Davis), but passed on players like Kobe and JO, by the way (in same draft) and picked Dampier...and although he picked Bender, he actually passed on Artest in that same draft (along with Rip, Marion, etc etc). He makes a safe pick with Tisdale but passes on Mullin, Malone, Oakley, Dumars, Porter.

I understand hindsight is 20-20, but it's clear both Bird and DW have an eye for talent, but Bird seems to be willing to gamble a bit more on upside.

BlueNGold
06-18-2011, 11:45 PM
Others will have to chime in, but I think that you got it backwards....IMHO....DW is a total "swing for the fences" type of GM that does gamble on Players ( see Bender, Artest and JONeal ) whereas Bird can go both ways as a "swing for the fences or go for a single" type of GM that decides what to do based off of the situation.

I tend to agree. I think Bird is usually more careful and Donnie would take greater risks...but Lance is a clear exception. Otherwise, Larry has been making very safe picks and has not rushed into trades.

Placebo
06-18-2011, 11:49 PM
I think Paul George was an exception too. Before the draft I didn't expect Bird to select him.

I'm glad he did though, that's another story.

BlueNGold
06-18-2011, 11:52 PM
Bird seems to be able to spot ballers well, but ultimately it's on those kids to fly right after they've been handed millions and maintain focus and motivation (BRush)...there's only so much psycho-analysis a team can do.

But if a GM doesn't have the skill to spot talent the rest doesn't matter.

This draft is so wide open (unlike last year where I was really high on PG after watching his workout videos) that I've come to the conclusion that I have to trust Bird's judgement and know that he knows that at 15 in a consensus weak draft, that he will look for the BPA...again.

I agree with most of your points. Bird's greatest weakness may be that deep down he doesn't mind bringing in guys with sketchy backgrounds. Perhaps that's the deal you get in a small market...but I will not forget what I perceived to be lack of concern for a serious character or maybe responsibility issue.

Remember when Bird laughed and said Rush had to pay some unpaid parking tickets? I think he was referring to child support where parking means...well you know. Anyway, here is a link:

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/apr/04/brandon_rush_has_court_date_child_support_case/
Source: LJWorld.com

Hicks
06-19-2011, 10:31 AM
Others will have to chime in, but I think that you got it backwards....IMHO....DW is a total "swing for the fences" type of GM that does gamble on Players ( see Bender, Artest and JONeal ) whereas Bird can go both ways as a "swing for the fences or go for a single" type of GM that decides what to do based off of the situation.

Donnie only "swung for the fences" with Bender and with the Bulls trade. Normally he was infamously referred to as "Donnie Do Nothing" and was known for being more conservative, and as I've seen below, he wasn't exactly an A+ drafter.

Not that he wasn't a good GM, but when I see "DW is a total 'swing for the fences' type of GM", that just isn't what I remember at all.

CableKC
06-19-2011, 12:06 PM
DW only drafted Bender, the other two were obtained in trades. Bender was one of his rare gambles, done during a time when he knew it might be a few years before he could contribute, as he had a very veteran team.

Reggie was a great player, but not a superstar. DW made solid picks but none spectacular, got good second round value at times (Antonio Davis), but passed on players like Kobe and JO, by the way (in same draft) and picked Dampier...and although he picked Bender, he actually passed on Artest in that same draft (along with Rip, Marion, etc etc). He makes a safe pick with Tisdale but passes on Mullin, Malone, Oakley, Dumars, Porter.

I understand hindsight is 20-20, but it's clear both Bird and DW have an eye for talent, but Bird seems to be willing to gamble a bit more on upside.
Sorry, I should have been more clear....my point was that DW was clearly more of a risk taker compared to Bird was....whether it be the draft or in regular Basketball Operations.
I guess my point was tha

Justin Tyme
06-19-2011, 01:05 PM
I don't want to beat a dead horse, but Bird was in charge of drafting. He drafted both Williams and White. I'd say he is more of a risk taker than Walsh.

Just remember Walsh had "2" chances prior to the Pacers to draft Stephenson and took VERY conservative picks in Fields and Rautins. Walsh is not a big risk taker.

Speed
06-19-2011, 01:35 PM
Conrad Brunner interview from Friday with Greg Rakestraw, at the 3:30 mark they talk about how Klay Thompson outplayed Marshon Brooks overall, when they worked out for the Pacers.

http://www.1070thefan.com/podcast/Episodes.aspx?PID=2161

Its a good interview, I know some will discount.

Says drafting Burks and Tristan Thompson not likely since they refused to workout and Bird doesn't draft those players.

Says if Jimmer is there he thinks you have to take him.

Says position likely to be drafted is PF.

Said Faried is really not very big at all, said he'll need a team to draft him who can hide his physical shortcomings to be effective, basically.

Nothing new, but still nice to hear is articulated in one place.

Side Note, I for one believe he might be smoke screening the Marshon getting outplayed by Klay to counteract Grady letting the cat out of the bag, since Marshon basically said in the interview that he probably outplayed Klay, but in NY Klay got the best of him. The story in changed now saying both Marshon and Klay that Klay bested him.... Also last year, I think Bruno knew PG was the pick and would accentuate the opposite. Look I understand it, he doesn't want to screw the folks he's working for.

Shade
06-19-2011, 01:47 PM
Donnie only "swung for the fences" with Bender and with the Bulls trade. Normally he was infamously referred to as "Donnie Do Nothing" and was known for being more conservative, and as I've seen below, he wasn't exactly an A+ drafter.

Not that he wasn't a good GM, but when I see "DW is a total 'swing for the fences' type of GM", that just isn't what I remember at all.

While this is true, gotta add Reggie to that list.

Hicks
06-19-2011, 01:59 PM
While this is true, gotta add Reggie to that list.

Really? Reggie was a risky pick beyond angering the whiny-Alford fans?

Shade
06-19-2011, 03:01 PM
Really? Reggie was a risky pick beyond angering the whiny-Alford fans?

Hell yeah, it was a risky pick. Donnie was still new to the Pacers who, less than a decade earlier, had to run a fundraiser to save the team. Then he takes a guy that very few people had heard about (at least, in Indy), over the "prodigal son" Alford (and, let me tell ya, Indy was thoroughly an IU town). That took some major cajones.

Hicks
06-19-2011, 04:08 PM
Hell yeah, it was a risky pick. Donnie was still new to the Pacers who, less than a decade earlier, had to run a fundraiser to save the team. Then he takes a guy that very few people had heard about (at least, in Indy), over the "prodigal son" Alford (and, let me tell ya, Indy was thoroughly an IU town). That took some major cajones.

A P.R. risk, sure, but I was speaking only in terms of basketball ability.

xBulletproof
06-19-2011, 05:15 PM
A P.R. risk, sure, but I was speaking only in terms of basketball ability.

I wasn't old enough to comment, but it probably seems much more lopsided knowing what we know today. ;)

beezer615
06-19-2011, 09:55 PM
Brooks is who I want. Reminds me of a young Kobe.

That's who I thought as well. Mostly on the way he shoots and moves, where you don't know exactly what his next step is going to be, but doesn't really have Kobe's explosion that made him so good in his prime.

I'd say Paul Pierce as well.

ECKrueger
06-19-2011, 10:00 PM
Based on some things I have read, he reminds me of 'bad' kobe. Taking terrible shots that have little chance of going in, dominating the ball, and not passing well.

Kid Minneapolis
06-20-2011, 10:42 AM
Based on some things I have read, he reminds me of 'bad' kobe. Taking terrible shots that have little chance of going in, dominating the ball, and not passing well.

I understand the point, but let's not forget that he's in college. We're comparing him to Kobe *well* in to his career. I think it's a bit unfair to expect a college guy to be as good as Kobe Bryant 4-5 years into his NBA career, and fault him when he falls a little short. Kobe fit that same description when he was first in the NBA and *still* takes those types of shots.

The guy still has opportunity to improve his game.