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View Full Version : So apparently we just had a big free agent workout



Heisenberg
06-13-2011, 06:12 PM
http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2011/6/13/2222114/pacers-free-agent-workout-bobby-brown-matt-janning-james-white


It's unclear if the impending NBA lockout is causing teams to hold more free agent workouts (http://www.ridiculousupside.com/section/nba-free-agent-workouts) or I'm just hearing about them for the first time this offseason, but the Indiana Pacers (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/indiana-pacers) became the latest team to invite non-rookies in for a look-see this week.

The Pacers are holding a two-day free agent camp that began Monday and will wrap up Tuesday afternoon. Through a source with knowledge of the workout, Ridiculous Upside (http://www.ridiculousupside.com/) has a partial list of the invitees.

The guard prospects included Bobby Brown (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/24664/bobby-brown), Matt Janning (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/112653/matt-janning), Javaris Crittenton (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/24228/javaris-crittenton) and Sylven Landesberg (http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-basketball/players/52247/sylven-landesberg). The wings participating include NBA veterans James White (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21768/james-white), DeMarre Carroll (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/71927/demarre-carroll) and Ime Udoka (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21824/ime-udoka). As far as big men go, Rob Kurz (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/50428/rob-kurz), Leo Lyons (http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-basketball/players/26141/leo-lyons), Chris Daniels (http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-basketball/players/29682/chris-daniels) and Trent Plaisted (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/51522/trent-plaisted) were all in attendance on Monday.

The Pacers didn't skimp on names as all but Landesberg, Lyons, Daniels and Plaisted have prior NBA experience and Plaisted was a second-round pick in the 2008 NBA Draft and Janning, Carroll and Udoka all logged NBA time this past season.
Get excited!! James White!

And that's only a partial list, maybe a big name like Jeff McInnis or Shan Foster was there. Seriously though, if Bird starts the "best shooter in the league" talk again...then we just signed Shan Foster.

pwee31
06-13-2011, 06:17 PM
I read some tweets earlier about players working out for the Pacers, but they weren't college players, or names I had heard of, so I didn't think much of it.

Can't say I understand these workouts much either? I mean I really don't there's going to be a summer league?

Perhaps having funny to spend of free agents was a bad idea? lol

pacer4ever
06-13-2011, 06:19 PM
The Knicks just had one also and i read Bozi Wells really impressed

Heisenberg
06-13-2011, 06:21 PM
I read some tweets earlier about players working out for the Pacers, but they weren't college players, or names I had heard of, so I didn't think much of it.

Can't say I understand these workouts much either? I mean I really don't there's going to be a summer league?

Perhaps having funny to spend of free agents was a bad idea? lol
No summer league's a reason to have these kinda workouts in my opinion. You won't be able sign a bunch of randoms and have a few weeks to feel em out and see if there's anything there, so get em in the building now and see what they can do, no harm. Find talent wherever you can I suppose.

pwee31
06-13-2011, 06:24 PM
No summer league's a reason to have these kinda workouts in my opinion. You won't be able sign a bunch of randoms and have a few weeks to feel em out and see if there's anything there, so get em in the building now and see what they can do, no harm. Find talent wherever you can I suppose.

Find talent for what? The regular season? A good portion of these guys have not be good enough to stick on multiple teams. Really no need for them if no summer league

Trophy
06-13-2011, 06:27 PM
Aside from his swagger/attitude in Portland, I liked Bonzi Wells' game. He was a tough player go matchup against.

I'd be interested to see what he can do these days in the league.

I also liked Jeff McInnis in his prime too.

Bobby Brown's pretty good too and he's a young PG. I wouldn't mind adding him.

IndyHoya
06-13-2011, 06:29 PM
The Knicks just had one also and i read Bozi Wells really impressed

I could prolly live with Bonzi Wells.

Heisenberg
06-13-2011, 06:29 PM
Find talent for what? The regular season? A good portion of these guys have not be good enough to stick on multiple teams. Really no need for them if no summer league
Yes for the regular season. Teams make mistakes, guys are roster space casualties, guys offer very specific skillsets only applicable to a small number of situations, you never know. It's not like they signed them to contracts. No one's expecting to find that piece to put us over the 1st round hump or something. We paid Solo last year, and he actually played.

Brad8888
06-13-2011, 06:31 PM
Could it be that teams are preparing to hire replacement players to avoid not having an early part of next season? And, would that violate any contractual terms in ongoing contracts, or would the contracts no longer be valid due to the expiration of the CBA and the status of the Players Association?

Otherwise, the working out of players like the ones mentioned makes very little sense to me.

pacer4ever
06-13-2011, 06:40 PM
I could prolly live with Bonzi Wells.

at almost 35 i will pass lol

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/knicks_look_wells_wKznCFt0o1WQ3MG7PbLgsO here is the workout link


They say he will most likley get a training camp invite

ChristianDudley
06-13-2011, 06:41 PM
I definitely wouldn't mind having Bobby Brown on the team--he was solid for Sacramento in 08-09. And for those wondering, this was a "free-agent camp" that the Pacers held today.

pacer4ever
06-13-2011, 06:45 PM
I definitely wouldn't mind having Bobby Brown on the team--he was solid for Sacramento in 08-09. And for those wondering, this was a "free-agent camp" that the Pacers held today.

he aved like 5 pts we could do much better IMO. I doubt if anyone from this camp will be on an opening day roster they are just trying to get a camp invite.

BringJackBack
06-13-2011, 06:47 PM
Why the hell would we be anywhere NEAR Javaris Crittenton? Isn't he exactly what we are trying to stay away from?

Will Galen
06-13-2011, 06:47 PM
Could it be that teams are preparing to hire replacement players to avoid not having an early part of next season? And, would that violate any contractual terms in ongoing contracts, or would the contracts no longer be valid due to the expiration of the CBA and the status of the Players Association?

Otherwise, the working out of players like the ones mentioned makes very little sense to me.

This is all lockout driven. It could be like the last contract and they only have a short time to get a roster together before play starts.

So what teams are doing is trying to do is get an idea of their roster ahead of time. They will probably be a lot of trades before the end of the month.

ChristianDudley
06-13-2011, 07:11 PM
he aved like 5 pts we could do much better IMO. I doubt if anyone from this camp will be on an opening day roster they are just trying to get a camp invite.

Yeah, in about 8-12 MPG I believe. Scoring isn't everything. I think he's got some pretty decent PG skills from all that I've watched him.

BornReady
06-13-2011, 07:15 PM
many of us were very high on Demarre Carroll last year right? He could be a sweet pickup.

pacer4ever
06-13-2011, 07:16 PM
Yeah, in about 8-12 MPG I believe. Scoring isn't everything. I think he's got some pretty decent PG skills from all that I've watched him.

The Kings would have resigned him if he was any good there pg group is terrible.

IndyHoya
06-13-2011, 07:18 PM
at almost 35 i will pass lol



They say he will most likley get a training camp invite

Veteran Leadership!

Gamble1
06-13-2011, 07:28 PM
FWIW James White is averaging 20 points with a FG percentage of 50% with his Euro club.

Anthem
06-13-2011, 07:32 PM
JCrit! Maybe we could trade Jermaine for him.

pacer4ever
06-13-2011, 07:32 PM
Veteran Leadership!

except for the fact of this.............................

http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2011/6/13/2221113/bonzi-wells-nba-comeback-knicks


Bonzi was always know as not the good teammate but most considered him a jack ***. But i liked him back when he was good even though he was a head ache to his team. **** Posey and Vogel got into it last year and Posey was considered a great vet Bozi might be a headache but i dont know.

however aveing 46pts in China is :laugh:

Heisenberg
06-13-2011, 07:37 PM
Seeing some of the #s these guys put up in that Chinese league makes you wonder. Not that I was ever anywhere near as talented as a lot of the guys that go ever there, but y'know, make a roster...

PacerGuy
06-13-2011, 10:22 PM
I definitely wouldn't mind having Bobby Brown on the team.

My Prerogative would be to not sign him.
Don't Be Cruel, thats just how I feel.

Indy1831
06-13-2011, 10:28 PM
This means some of these guys will be on the summer league team if there is one. And it could mean the end for Dunleavy, Foster, and Ford here for sure. Sounds like they want to add some cheap guys for players 13-15. Makes sense no reason to put guys in street clothes making several millions (unless their injured).

Foster could possibly still come back, but there has always been speculation about him going to the Spurs.

vnzla81
06-13-2011, 10:29 PM
So James White been back means that Larry was the one guy who drafted him?

itzryan07
06-13-2011, 10:43 PM
all scrubs. Don't know why u guys are excited.

ChristianDudley
06-13-2011, 10:48 PM
The Kings would have resigned him if he was any good there pg group is terrible.

Well they did sort of come across a guy named Tyreke Evans and still have that Udrih guy. And maybe I'm wrong, but I think Bobby Brown was traded to Minnesota instead of just being signed to them as a free-agent signing.

DemonHunter1105
06-13-2011, 10:52 PM
all scrubs. Don't know why u guys are excited.

I hope this isn't serious.

pacer4ever
06-13-2011, 10:53 PM
Well they did sort of come across a guy named Tyreke Evans and still have that Udrih guy. And maybe I'm wrong, but I think Bobby Brown was traded to Minnesota instead of just being signed to them as a free-agent signing.

Reke doesn't play PG that experiment failed. He plays SG. Beno Udrih is terrible(but is a good fit with Reke at the SG) and there back Pooh Jeter was really terrible IMO.

spreedom
06-13-2011, 11:00 PM
Nothing like broad oversimplification.

pacergod2
06-13-2011, 11:07 PM
Sylven Landesburg is an interesting prospect to me. He is a scorer. He went to UVA and I was interested in him as a second rounder. It surprised me that he didn't get drafted, but he is a SG that can score. Interesting we brought him in.

DeMarre Carroll is a tweener forward who rebounds pretty well, and has a decent all-around game, but won't wow you.

James White. I love his athleticism, but has he learned how to play the game yet?

Those are the three that would make any sense to me.

ChristianDudley
06-13-2011, 11:08 PM
Reke doesn't play PG that experiment failed. He plays SG. Beno Udrih is terrible(but is a good fit with Reke at the SG) and there back Pooh Jeter was really terrible IMO.

Yeah they say "oh Reke isn't a PG" but they have him with the ball all the time unless Beno miraculously comes up with it. Reke is another pounder with the basketball and really kills his own team anyway. So basically, Reke's still a PG, but only a wannabe PG. I guess the best way to explain it is he's another 100% SG that is told to handle the ball the whole time--"Give the ball to Reke!"

You still can't say Bobby Brown was horrible--he was undrafted, could hardly find time in a logjam, but when injuries came he finally got his chance and did great--one of the better surprise rookies that year imo actually. He'll def be around this league for a while once he makes it back in for this upcoming season. Again, NOT with the Pacers I don't believe, but he is a good backup option for any team.

ChristianDudley
06-13-2011, 11:10 PM
Sylven Landesburg is an interesting prospect to me. He is a scorer. He went to UVA and I was interested in him as a second rounder. It surprised me that he didn't get drafted, but he is a SG that can score. Interesting we brought him in.

DeMarre Carroll is a tweener forward who rebounds pretty well, and has a decent all-around game, but won't wow you.

James White. I love his athleticism, but has he learned how to play the game yet?

Those are the three that would make any sense to me.

I remember the Grizzlies were grooming DeMarre as a defensive stopper, and he was pretty good defensively from all that I saw. I think he could be a pretty good pickup at the minimum cost for some team.

dal9
06-14-2011, 12:49 AM
calling this a "big free agent workout" reminds me of the joke that "there's tons of girls at this party, but not many of them."

except in reverse or whatnot

pacer4ever
06-14-2011, 01:28 AM
Yeah they say "oh Reke isn't a PG" but they have him with the ball all the time unless Beno miraculously comes up with it. Reke is another pounder with the basketball and really kills his own team anyway. So basically, Reke's still a PG, but only a wannabe PG. I guess the best way to explain it is he's another 100% SG that is told to handle the ball the whole time--"Give the ball to Reke!"

You still can't say Bobby Brown was horrible--he was undrafted, could hardly find time in a logjam, but when injuries came he finally got his chance and did great--one of the better surprise rookies that year imo actually. He'll def be around this league for a while once he makes it back in for this upcoming season. Again, NOT with the Pacers I don't believe, but he is a good backup option for any team.

Kobe Bryant and Brandon Roy (before he was hurt) played the SG but handled the ball 90% of the time. I mean it can be successful if done with the right personal. The problem is the Kings don't have a good supporting cast but they are heading in the right direction. If they pick a good person in this draft they should be playoff contenders in a few years.

Hoop
06-14-2011, 02:10 AM
James White should play for free, since he got paid for not playing last time, it's only fair.

imawhat
06-14-2011, 02:37 AM
James White has played with us in the summer for a few years now.

Isaac
06-14-2011, 03:02 AM
This thread is every bit as boring as these names.

Hicks
06-14-2011, 08:48 AM
James White has played with us in the summer for a few years now.

I don't think that's accurate?

Speed
06-14-2011, 09:10 AM
I think I do remember a bunch of these guys from Pacers summer league rosters.

Justin Tyme
06-14-2011, 09:12 AM
James White should play for free, since he got paid for not playing last time, it's only fair.



White will never make a Pacers roster. He got paid b/c Bird gave him as a 2nd round pick a guaranteed contract, and then he was cut in training camp or pre-season. Bird's blunder with the Simon's money. IIRC, the Suns then picked up White while Simon's paid White's salary. White was paid $400,000 a year for 2 years, b/c Bird went against common NBA wisdom of not giving 2nd round players guaranteed contracts.

Apparently, Bird doesn't learn from his mistakes as he gave Stephenson a 2 year guaranteed contract at $700,000/800,000 a year. If Bird ever gives another 2nd rd player a guaranteed contract, then the blame lies squarely on Herb Simon for allowing it.... for the 3rd time.

naptownmenace
06-14-2011, 09:49 AM
White will never make a Pacers roster. He got paid b/c Bird gave him as a 2nd round pick a guaranteed contract, and then he was cut in training camp or pre-season. Bird's blunder with the Simon's money. IIRC, the Suns then picked up White while Simon's paid White's salary. White was paid $400,000 a year for 2 years, b/c Bird went against common NBA wisdom of not giving 2nd round players guaranteed contracts.


I don't think that is accurate. First of all, James White was waived by the Pacers and then later signed by the Spurs. Secondly, since he cleared waivers, part of his salary was paid by the Spurs.



If another team signs a released player who had a guaranteed contract (as long as the player has cleared waivers -- see question number 56), the player's original team is allowed to reduce the amount of money it still owes the player (and lower their team salary) by a commensurate amount (this is called the right of set-off). This is true if the player signs with any professional team -- it doesn't even have to be an NBA team. The amount the original team gets to set off is limited to one-half the difference between the player's new salary and the minimum salary for a one-year veteran (if the player is a rookie, then the rookie minimum is used instead).
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q56


Finally, I don't think James White had a second guaranteed year on the contract he signed with the Pacers. However, he did sign a 2-year contract with the Spurs.



He was selected in the second round (31st overall) by the Portland Trail Blazers in the 2006 NBA Draft, and his rights were immediately traded to the Indiana Pacers for the rights to the Pacers' pick at #45 overall (Alexander Johnson), and second-round draft choices in 2007 and 2008. In eight preseason games with Indiana, White averaged 3.8 points and 2.0 rebounds in 17.5 minutes a game over 8 preseason games.[28] He was cut by the Indiana Pacers on October 31, 2006,[28] with coach Rick Carlisle saying his release was the most difficult cut he has been involved with in his coaching career. White signed a two-year contract with the San Antonio Spurs on November 3, 2006.[29]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_White_%28basketball%29

Justin Tyme
06-14-2011, 11:33 AM
I don't think that is accurate. First of all, James White was waived by the Pacers and then later signed by the Spurs. Secondly, since he cleared waivers, part of his salary was paid by the Spurs.


http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q56


Finally, I don't think James White had a second guaranteed year on the contract he signed with the Pacers. However, he did sign a 2-year contract with the Spurs.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_White_%28basketball%29



I feel confident both years of White's contract were guaranteed. It was cussed and discussed on PD, IndyStar, and Realgm as both years being guaranteed. IIRC, the 2nd year was part of the Pacers salary that particular year. This is why it irked so many that he was given a guaranteed contract.

Yes, the Spurs paid some of the contract, but I believe it was a very small part compared to what the Pacers paid.

Thanks for the memory refresher that it was Carlisle that made the decision to waive/cut White.

Lou Bega
06-14-2011, 11:35 AM
many of us were very high on Demarre Carroll last year right? He could be a sweet pickup.

Carroll is a high energy player, decent instincts Little to No offensive game. If you need a player to fill in S Jones role No Problem. He is more athletic than Matt Howard/Jamie Skeen. Don't know about his atttitude!!!

Udoke - is a decent rotation player, capable of hitting outside shots. I don't know if he is losing speed/defense capability due to his age.

Wells- too long of an inactive streak. One of the finest post players for his postion in recent years!!!

imawhat
06-14-2011, 11:47 AM
I don't think that's accurate?

Not summer league, but practicing/playing with free agents that we seem to bring in every year around draft time.

It was brought up here two or so years ago when James was practicing. I think Fred Jones and Eddie Gill might have come back as well. I think there was even an article about it in the Star. I'll see if I can drudge it up.

*edit* can't find it, but I'm sure someone in the Pacers camp can confirm that he's worked out with us since we cut him. I think he wound up playing for the Spurs summer league the first season he came back to work out with us.

naptownmenace
06-14-2011, 12:17 PM
I feel confident both years of White's contract were guaranteed. It was cussed and discussed on PD, IndyStar, and Realgm as both years being guaranteed. IIRC, the 2nd year was part of the Pacers salary that particular year. This is why it irked so many that he was given a guaranteed contract.

Yes, the Spurs paid some of the contract, but I believe it was a very small part compared to what the Pacers paid.

Thanks for the memory refresher that it was Carlisle that made the decision to waive/cut White.

The only info I could find points to the Pacers signing him to a 2-year deal that had the first year guaranteed if he was with the team through the start of preseason, which of course was.

The Spurs ended up signing him to a 2-year deal for $405,000 dollars so I doubt the Pacers had to pay him much at all for that 1 season. Giving up 2 future second round picks for nothing was the real sucky part of the James White experience.

It's interesting that James White has received multi-year contracts from 3 NBA franchises (Pacers, Spurs, and Rockets) and a 4-year deal with a Turkish team. He's good enough to get signed but not good enough for a team to stick with him.

I'm really surprised the Pacers haven't invited Fred Jones back... and no I'm not being sarcastic. Freddie really worked on his shooting and was knocking down his 3s really well his last season in NY and LAC. He just had some injury issues. I think he's redundant with Dhantay Jones and Brandon Rush, though.

Eddie Gill
06-14-2011, 01:17 PM
I've watched both Demarre Carroll and Leo Lyons throughout their careers at Mizzou. Like some have said, Carroll is an undersized, high energy guy with a limited offensive game but can score in transition. Lyons was an undersized 4/5 during his time here. He was actually a pretty good shotblocker and showed flashes of a well-polished post game at times. I'm not sure Lyons really has a true position in the NBA (unless he's bulked up the last 2 years), but I've always thought Demarre is deserving of a roster spot. Lou mentioned his attitude as a question mark, but I can tell you from my encounters with him around campus he seems to be a really good guy and was beloved around here for being an extremely hard worker who would compensate for his lack of physical ability with sheer energy and will.

PR07
06-14-2011, 02:00 PM
I don't really see many of these guys being difference-makers over the course of the NBA season, but there is very little else to talk about.

Speed
06-14-2011, 02:11 PM
If these any of these guys were on the last two summer league teams, which I'm sure some were, I didn't notice any of them being that good, at that time.

imawhat
06-14-2011, 05:11 PM
Hicks is right. There was an article about James White working out a few years ago, but it was in Atlanta and was written by former Pacer writer Sekou Smith. No flight in Indiana.

Will Galen
06-14-2011, 09:45 PM
Giving up 2 future first round picks for nothing was the real sucky part of the James White experience.

I think you know this, but put it down wrong. They were second round picks.

naptownmenace
06-15-2011, 12:52 PM
I think you know this, but put it down wrong. They were second round picks.

Yes, I definitely meant 2nd round picks. Thanks.

Ozwalt72
06-15-2011, 12:55 PM
Hicks is right. There was an article about James White working out a few years ago, but it was in Atlanta and was written by former Pacer writer Sekou Smith. No flight in Indiana.

I really thought I heard about him working out for us last year.

Scot Pollard
06-17-2011, 04:14 PM
We should bring in Robert Swift to the FA camp.

He played for the Tokyo team last season and I think he's a FA now I'm not sure.

He never had a fair shot in the NBA considering his torn ACL and then forgotten about on the bench.

He's actually a really nice offensive player. He plays the post well and has nice footwork for a center.

I wouldn't be surprised if he'll join someone's camp. I read the Trail Blazers contacted him during the season, but he wanted to stick with Tokyo for the rest of the season.

He did very well over there so maybe that was what he needed to get his health 100% and learn more. He played for Bob Hill over in Tokyo so you can guarantee he picked up a lot from his coaching and ability to teach players.

pacer4ever
06-17-2011, 04:15 PM
We should bring in Robert Swift to the FA camp.

He played for the Tokyo team last season and I think he's a FA now I'm sure.

He never had a fair shot in the NBA considering his torn ACL and then forgotten about on the bench.

He's actually a really nice offensive player. He plays the post well and has nice footwork for a center.

I wouldn't be surprised if he'll join someone's camp. I read the Trail Blazers contacted him during the season, but he wanted to stick with Tokyo for the rest of the season.

He did very well over there so maybe that was what he needed to get his health 100% and learn more.

:eek:

:vaderno: