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JBones19
06-10-2011, 10:28 AM
I went to a season ticket holder breakfast this morning at Conseco that was held in the player's locker room. To my surprise there were only 4 of us that showed up and the guest speakers were Chris Denari and Clark Kellogg. Because there were only a few of us, we all just sat down at a table and chatted hoops for an hour. The tidbits that I remember and stuck out to me were-

-Both Chris and Clark listed the players that impressed them the most that worked out for us were in this consensus order- Marshon Brooks, Tobias Harris, Jimmer. Chris and Clark raved about Brooks saying he was a pure scorer and that's something the P's were obviously looking for and Clark commented on Brooks' tremendous length and how he really did look like Kobe when he first came into the league. Clark also seemed impressed with Harris potential, and both agreed that there was a place for Jimmer in this league just because he can shoot the basketball so effectively. Clark compared him to JJ Barea with a better shot- But the overwhelming vibe I got was that Brooks was really the guy they felt the P's were targeting and that he was most impressive.

-Clark spoke in length about his role with the P's and mainly his role with Lance. Gushed about Lance's ability and really wanted to mold him into being a man and was enjoying watch him mature. Said he has made great strides since the beginning of the season and that making the play-offs really built up team morale and any petty disagreements that happened between players was forgotten once the Bulls series started. Chris also mentioned he could see a huge difference in how Lance carried himself last night at the celeb softball game and was very impressed. Like most of us have speculated, Larry has big plans for Lance, and Clark specifically said- as a Point Guard.

-Both felt is wasn't "if" but "when" Frank is named head coach. Just a matter of time, and he will be surrounded with veteran assistants

-Matt Howard REALLY wants to play for the P's but understands it's probably not in the cards.

-Of the FA's on our roster they felt that Foster will almost for sure be back next year. Clark thought a team may over-pay for Josh, but he def. wants to stay a Pacer. Didn't speculate on Dun, and said obviously TJ and Solomon are gone.

-Clark raved about George but then expressed the importance that he couldn't quite yet give you 20+ pts a night yet, thus the need for another scorer to help Danny.

-Also mentioned that Chandler was someone the P's have targeted in the past and he is a UFA after this season and we may go after him.

That's what I can remember so far. Alot of it just verified things we already thought/knew but it was nice hear it coming straight from someone in the organization.

-J

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 10:30 AM
I'll never, ever, ever understand why they are trying to shoe horn Lance in as a point guard.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 10:31 AM
Also, we won't be able to justify spending on Chandler unless we are trading Roy.

ECKrueger
06-10-2011, 10:31 AM
Wow thanks for that info!

PR07
06-10-2011, 10:33 AM
I'll never, ever, ever understand why they are trying to shoe horn Lance in as a point guard.

Probably just matchups.

At SG, he's a tad undersized and isn't a great elevator.

At PG, he's bigger and stronger than probably any PG he may face outside of Tyreke Evans.

ECKrueger
06-10-2011, 10:33 AM
I'll never, ever, ever understand why they are trying to shoe horn Lance in as a point guard.

I think he would be DRose-esque as a PG.

luis3ep
06-10-2011, 10:34 AM
great thread. thanks.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 10:35 AM
I think he would be DRose-esque as a PG.

Does that style of PG win a championship in the NBA? I think the answer is no.

luis3ep
06-10-2011, 10:38 AM
Probably just matchups.

At SG, he's a tad undersized and isn't a great elevator.

At PG, he's bigger and stronger than probably any PG he may face outside of Tyreke Evans.


I agree with you...but isn't d-wade a 6'3 - 6'4 shooting guard? there alot of good shooting guards who are smaller than Lances 6'5.

graphic-er
06-10-2011, 10:38 AM
I'll never, ever, ever understand why they are trying to shoe horn Lance in as a point guard.

Well I don't think you can say with any certainty that he can't play the position. Infact everything I've seen of him suggests that he is a very willing passer, where as DC is not.

PR07
06-10-2011, 10:42 AM
I agree with you...but isn't d-wade a 6'3 - 6'4 shooting guard? there alot of good shooting guards who are smaller than Lances 6'5.

Have you seen Wade elevate though? The other game, he blocked Tyson Chandler at the rim. Stephenson isn't a great elevator, he can dunk, but Wade makes up for his height with the ability to elevate.


I think he would be DRose-esque as a PG.

Maybe in that they're both scoring PG's, but other than that, I don't think they are that similar. Rose is a better elevator and is much, much quicker with the ability to stop on a dime. Stephenson's more like a poor man's Tyreke Evans if he pans out.

ECKrueger
06-10-2011, 10:45 AM
Does that style of PG win a championship in the NBA? I think the answer is no.

Most likely not, but I don't think it is impossible, nor do I think Lance will ever be leading this team into the playoffs.

Unclebuck
06-10-2011, 10:45 AM
Lance has more natural point guard instincts amnd talents than anyone else we have on the Pacers.

Unclebuck
06-10-2011, 10:46 AM
Does that style of PG win a championship in the NBA? I think the answer is no.


Maybe they haven't, but it isn't the point guards fault.

ECKrueger
06-10-2011, 10:48 AM
Maybe in that they're both scoring PG's, but other than that, I don't think they are that similar. Rose is a better elevator and is much, much quicker with the ability to stop on a dime. Stephenson's more like a poor man's Tyreke Evans if he pans out.

That is all I meant. He can score, and probably will do so more than set people up, and can have some good assists once in a while.

graphic-er
06-10-2011, 10:49 AM
Does that style of PG win a championship in the NBA? I think the answer is no.

No, but we we are seeing with the NBA's final four is that the point guard position needs size and strength this day and age. Westbrook is long and strong, Kidd is big and strong, and I wont' even go into Miami they don't even utilize a point guard in the traditional sense, it makes you wonder why they bothered to sign Bibby whose shot has been broken for several years. Chalmer's is just lucky he can hit jumper.

But it is interesting that these super athletic PG's did not make the finals. But its obvious you need some size at the position to make it deep in the playoffs. Lance has size, Bird already said Lance doesn't need to get stronger. I think next year you will see Lance challenging DC for the starting position.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 10:50 AM
Lance has more natural point guard instincts amnd talents than anyone else we have on the Pacers.

Why has he never played point guard at any level of basketball then (until now, that is)?

Unclebuck
06-10-2011, 11:03 AM
Why has he never played point guard at any level of basketball then (until now, that is)?


Because of his size.

luis3ep
06-10-2011, 11:06 AM
Have you seen Wade elevate though? The other game, he blocked Tyson Chandler at the rim. Stephenson isn't a great elevator, he can dunk, but Wade makes up for his height with the ability to elevate.



Maybe in that they're both scoring PG's, but other than that, I don't think they are that similar. Rose is a better elevator and is much, much quicker with the ability to stop on a dime. Stephenson's more like a poor man's Tyreke Evans if he pans out.


all i know is anyone who can dunk like this can elevate in my books..
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ElMzQOGBPEY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Brad8888
06-10-2011, 11:08 AM
Why has he never played point guard at any level of basketball then (until now, that is)?

Because apparently Bird likes his point guards to be scorers first and passers second, and he prefers them to be big? :confused:

Like you, I don't get why Bird wants to turn an undersized 2 with what appears to be very little natural court vision into a point guard, especially with no experience at the position at any other time prior to his coming to the Pacers.

PR07
06-10-2011, 11:08 AM
all i know is anyone who can dunk like this can elevate in my books..


There's also a picture of Jeff Foster looking like he's going to dunk over Corey Maggette.

The point is, from the times I've seen him play this season, he looks more like a below the rim player who uses his big frame and strength to out position players around the rim (that's not a slam). I remember seeing him get blocked on a few occasions around the rim on layups too because he didn't exactly "throw it down".

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 11:10 AM
Because of his size.

That doesn't make any sense. If he had the skills someone would have played him there by now, college, high school, or AAU, someone would have done it. It's not like he's 6'8" or something.

Kemo
06-10-2011, 11:11 AM
If anyone wants to call in to ask Roy a question, the phone number is ..


239-1070

Sookie
06-10-2011, 11:12 AM
I'd love Tyson Chandler.

Sookie
06-10-2011, 11:15 AM
That doesn't make any sense. If he had the skills someone would have played him there by now, college, high school, or AAU, someone would have done it. It's not like he's 6'8" or something.

What's funnier is that coaches have TRIED to play him at the point position, at every level of play..and it failed. But I'm sure he can play it at the highest level of competition. I mean, if you can't play the point position in AAU, Highschool, or College...the NBA should be a piece of cake.

We aren't even putting him in a position where he can succeed. Although, I think he's staying in Indy for the summer (sure seems like it) which is a good for the team.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 11:17 AM
I don't remember Cincinatti ever even trying it. Maybe some point forward, but for the most part he started at the 3 there.

Ownagedood
06-10-2011, 11:17 AM
Awesome thread, thanks. Would have loved to have an opportunity to sit with guys like that and talk bball. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Lance has crazy passing ability and is really smart leading the floor, especially for a young, immature kid. I think he also sees the floor better than most people do, not just stacked up with the Guards we have. Ridiculous potential.

Ownagedood
06-10-2011, 11:18 AM
Like you, I don't get why Bird wants to turn an undersized 2 with what appears to be very little natural court vision into a point guard, especially with no experience at the position at any other time prior to his coming to the Pacers.
Did you watch the games he played in last year? I saw him making passes none of our PGs could make or even see.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 11:19 AM
I think my thoughts on Lance are pretty well documented, but I can tell you one thing, if he wants to succeed in this league, it's gonna have to be as a 2 guard. Even Sacramento has accepted that Tyreke Evans isn't a point guard. And Lance isn't more talented than Tyreke Evans.

Speed
06-10-2011, 11:28 AM
Great vision, great handles. He needs to tighten everything up, but I totally see him as having point guard skils. He has alot to learn as far as leadership/game management/life skills. But his vision is exceptional and he can get to anywhere on the court he wants, basically. I'm sure the positive report is just setting me up to get let down with Lance though.

I'm excited, they are excited about Brooks.

I'm surprised about Tobias, he reads like a middle ceiling guy, but he also sounds like a really smart player, so that goes a long way.

Tons to like here, but I'll stop.

JBones19
06-10-2011, 11:32 AM
[QUOTE=Although, I think he's staying in Indy for the summer (sure seems like it) which is a good for the team.[/QUOTE]

Clark did say that Lance is staying in Indy this summer and that he is continuing to work with him.

graphic-er
06-10-2011, 11:33 AM
What's funnier is that coaches have TRIED to play him at the point position, at every level of play..and it failed. But I'm sure he can play it at the highest level of competition. I mean, if you can't play the point position in AAU, Highschool, or College...the NBA should be a piece of cake.

We aren't even putting him in a position where he can succeed. Although, I think he's staying in Indy for the summer (sure seems like it) which is a good for the team.

And yet after all this time he is only 20 years old. The time period you are referring to is only like a period of 4 years!

Sookie
06-10-2011, 11:36 AM
Clark did say that Lance is staying in Indy this summer and that he is continuing to work with him.

Is he going to be allowed to work with him during the lockout (if there is one)?

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 11:37 AM
How many players have never played consistent big minutes as a PG, came into the NBA and THEN became a PG? Serious question.

Peck
06-10-2011, 11:39 AM
You know they might get more than 4 people to show up to something like this if they would let someone know it was happening.

I'm a season ticket holder & I had no idea that this occurred.

I've already re-upped for the season so maybe this was for people on the fence, have you re-upped for next season?

DrFife
06-10-2011, 11:40 AM
This past month I've been hoping more and more that we come out of the upcoming draft with a big AND a "small." (Exception: Singleton is the one SF I'm excited about because despite TBird's review, I'd groom him to be Josh Smith II for us.) But if there's no clear BPA, which, then, to pick first?

I'll be excited if we land Brooks because I believe it'll show that we are high enough on him to not pursue Mayo or sign Crawford or Richardson. (It'll also show that we won't be acquiring another pick to select Jackson or Shumpert.) If Lance does work out, we're a 3-pt specialist (Ben Hansbrough? Ah, the brotherly intensity!) away from a loaded back court.

What about our front court, then? I have little hope of us signing Chandler or Nene, or trading for Kaman. I'd love for Herb to fork out $3 mil to buy another first if Larry is keen on one of the bigs (Motiejunas, if still available; Vucevic, who I'm intrigued by because he projects as versatile; Tyler; Johnson; Benson).

I know we need another veteran or two, but one way to interpret Larry's recent comments about wanting the best bench in the league is to assume that we are not going to acquire a veteran star, so we'll have to develop our depth instead. The draft -- even a "weak" draft such as this one -- is great for that strategy.

Peck
06-10-2011, 11:40 AM
How many players have never played consistent big minutes as a PG, came into the NBA and THEN became a PG? Serious question.

Did Magic Johnson actually play pg in college? I think he was a forward.

If so he transitioned very well to the pg spot.

Let me ask you from a different angle, what do you see in him that tells you he can not succeed as a p.g. in the NBA?

JBones19
06-10-2011, 11:42 AM
Is he going to be allowed to work with him during the lockout (if there is one)?

Not sure, I did ask Clark his thoughts about the lock-out and he basically said he thinks things will get resolved sometime after the June 30 expiration point but it may go last minute just like the NFL is playing out. He did say that whatever happens, the new CBA he feels will ultimately be better for everyone.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 11:42 AM
Did Magic Johnson actually play pg in college? I think he was a forward.

If so he transitioned very well to the pg spot.

Let me ask you from a different angle, what do you see in him that tells you he can not succeed as a p.g. in the NBA?

I don't believe Lance possesses the feel for the game necessary to be successful as a point guard. He is, however, very good at pounding the ball into oblivion just above the free throw line.

Since86
06-10-2011, 11:44 AM
Well I don't think you can say with any certainty that he can't play the position. Infact everything I've seen of him suggests that he is a very willing passer, where as DC is not.

I think you're confusing willingness with ability.

Peck
06-10-2011, 11:44 AM
I don't believe Lance possesses the feel for the game necessary to be successful as a point guard. He is, however, very good at pounding the ball into oblivion just above the free throw line.

So your fear is that he will just be a taller Travis Best?

SMosley21
06-10-2011, 11:44 AM
You know they might get more than 4 people to show up to something like this if they would let someone know it was happening.

I'm a season ticket holder & I had no idea that this occurred.

I've already re-upped for the season so maybe this was for people on the fence, have you re-upped for next season?

Would make sense because they emailed me about this and I cancelled my season tix after the end of the regular season.

JBones19
06-10-2011, 11:45 AM
You know they might get more than 4 people to show up to something like this if they would let someone know it was happening.

I'm a season ticket holder & I had no idea that this occurred.

I've already re-upped for the season so maybe this was for people on the fence, have you re-upped for next season?

I'm not sure Peck, I have put a deposit down for tix next year but haven't settled on a plan yet so maybe that had something to do with it? They had places set up for 30-35, 4 big round tables, and we all just sat at one.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 11:46 AM
Also, Peck you're wrong about Magic in college. The reason he chose Michigan State over Michigan was because Jud Heathcoate told him he could play point guard there.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 11:46 AM
So your fear is that he will just be a taller Travis Best?

Yeah, only a worse shooter.

Tom White
06-10-2011, 11:51 AM
You know they might get more than 4 people to show up to something like this if they would let someone know it was happening.

I'm a season ticket holder & I had no idea that this occurred.

I've already re-upped for the season so maybe this was for people on the fence, have you re-upped for next season?

That has to be embarrassing to the Pacers to only have four people show up. Must have been disheartening for Clark and Chris as well. On the other hand, it would have been a great experience for those who did attend to have a chance to sort of casually sit and chat with the two of them.

Peck
06-10-2011, 11:51 AM
Also, Peck you're wrong about Magic in college. The reason he chose Michigan State over Michigan was because Jud Heathcoate told him he could play point guard there.

How can I be wrong if I asked a question? I wasn't sure what position he played but for some reason I thought he was a forward but had no real idea.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 11:52 AM
How can I be wrong if I asked a question? I wasn't sure what position he played but for some reason I thought he was a forward but had no real idea.

My fault.

JBones19
06-10-2011, 11:53 AM
That has to be embarrassing to the Pacers to only have four people show up. Must have been disheartening for Clark and Chris as well. On the other hand, it would have been a great experience for those who did attend to have a chance to sort of casually sit and chat with the two of them.

It was awesome, one of the coolest Pacer related things I've been to. I think Chris and Clark had a good time too, they got to eat with us and just talk rather then sit up in front of everyone and answer questions

Sookie
06-10-2011, 11:53 AM
Did Magic Johnson actually play pg in college? I think he was a forward.

If so he transitioned very well to the pg spot.

Let me ask you from a different angle, what do you see in him that tells you he can not succeed as a p.g. in the NBA?

Intelligence. He doesn't have the intelligence to be a PG, and he doesn't have enough talent to make up for the fact that he doesn't have the intelligence to be a pg. This is the big one for me.

He doesn't run an offense. Yes, he's good at getting assists. With flashy passes no doubt. But he doesn't run an offense. And I doubt very much that he gets the concept of anything more than "I dribble the ball, and make a pass to the person who shoots." Yes, I know that can be how Steve Nash and Chris Paul play. Notice neither of them have ever won anything. And also Lance is not nearly as talented as either. And finally, this style of play annoyed the crap out of his teammates. For a player that isn't a Point Guard god, he actually has to run an offense. Make decisions without the ball, call the correct plays ect..Lance doesn't do that.

No way is he mature enough to manage/direct/lead a team. Another big one.


He doesn't have good handles. Once again, flashy handles..yes. good handles. No.

Then on the defensive end. Uh...his feet seem almost cemented.

The biggest difference between a point guard and a shooting guard is mentality. A good majority of shooting guards can make a great pass. It's whether you can lead a team, run an offense, handle the ball, and have the bball IQ to make the proper decisions. (This is of course, other than the fact that some players are forced to learn to play point guard because they can't score. Not the case for Lance though.) Can a player learn that..maybe. I haven't seen to many SG to PG conversions work though, unless the SG already had that mentality/intangibles and just had to score for their previous team.

Peck
06-10-2011, 11:54 AM
I don't believe Lance possesses the feel for the game necessary to be successful as a point guard. He is, however, very good at pounding the ball into oblivion just above the free throw line.

I'm not sure how you can tell that in the limited time we have seen him play? I just didn't get the impression from him that he was any worse than A.J. or really even Darren.

I like his size for sure though at the p.g. spot, but I'm not committed either way and his character bothers me far more than any on court stuff I've seen.

Tom White
06-10-2011, 11:56 AM
Did Magic Johnson actually play pg in college? I think he was a forward.

If so he transitioned very well to the pg spot.

Let me ask you from a different angle, what do you see in him that tells you he can not succeed as a p.g. in the NBA?

Magic was absolutely a point guard at MSU. Heathcoat was smart enough to let Magic play wherever he wanted to on the floor.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 11:57 AM
Limited? I've said many times on here that I've been watching Lance Stephenson play basketball for 5 years. He came onto IU's radar when he was still just a 15 year old. I've never watched him and thought "there goes an NBA point guard" Shooting guard? Yeah, definitely at times, but never a point guard.

Ownagedood
06-10-2011, 12:00 PM
I don't see why there is so many negative things to his game being brought out.. He's the third, second at best, option on our depth chart.. We aren't expecting him to lead the team yet. He's very young, and there is plenty of time for him to polish his skills. He has raw skill out the rear. He isn't supposed to be a star PG yet, why are you comparing him to Nash/CP3, etc... He was a Rookie last year, has off the court problems he has to get together, but other than that he has shown nothing to me that he is a terrible PG. I saw him make passes last year that were crazy good. Left me thinking, "how did he just get that pass in there? Looks like there is no room"....His passing lead to even Foster getting dunks just for instance.

We haven't seen enough to decided if he knows how to run the team with plays or not. But I would be willing to bet that with time there would be no problem there either. This guy is not quite even at drinking age and we expect him to know how to run an NBA team? ..Time will tell.

Sookie
06-10-2011, 12:00 PM
Limited? I've said many times on here that I've been watching Lance Stephenson play basketball for 5 years. He came onto IU's radar when he was still just a 15 year old. I've never watched him and thought "there goes an NBA point guard" Shooting guard? Yeah, definitely at times, but never a point guard.

Yea, I watch the Big East, so I've seen him plenty.

edit: I wasn't comparing him to CP3/Nash. I was saying that his style of play at the point. Dribble the ball around and then pass it to someone to shoot..is a style of play that really, only point guards like CP3 and Nash can get away with..and yes, that's obviously partially because they are so talented that a coach would be foolish to not give them complete control of a game. That's not the case with Lance. And it won't ever be the case with Lance. That style of play, is okay for a SG though. Because as a SG it won't be every time down the floor, just when the point guard decides Lance gets the ball. (I don't like the style of play anyway..but it's certainly better as a SG)

MyFavMartin
06-10-2011, 12:02 PM
RE: Lance

Maybe Larry is still in love with Magic?

Since86
06-10-2011, 12:03 PM
I don't know how you can say he doesn't have any passing ability. I forget which game it was, but him and Foster ran a PnR and Lance delievered a bounce pass behind the back of the defender who was recovering after a hedge. Lance threw it not to Foster, but at the spot where Jeff was going.

It was a one-handed bounce pass going away with great accuracy and great feel for the play, not only knowing where Jeff was going but where the defenders were and where they were going as well.

I'm not as high on Lance as some around here, but he's maded some pretty spectacular passes.

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 12:10 PM
I went to a season ticket holder breakfast this morning at Conseco that was held in the player's locker room. To my surprise there were only 4 of us that showed up and the guest speakers were Chris Denari and Clark Kellogg. Because there were only a few of us, we all just sat down at a table and chatted hoops for an hour. The tidbits that I remember and stuck out to me were-

-Both Chris and Clark listed the players that impressed them the most that worked out for us were in this consensus order- Marshon Brooks, Tobias Harris, Jimmer. Chris and Clark raved about Brooks saying he was a pure scorer and that's something the P's were obviously looking for and Clark commented on Brooks' tremendous length and how he really did look like Kobe when he first came into the league. Clark also seemed impressed with Harris potential, and both agreed that there was a place for Jimmer in this league just because he can shoot the basketball so effectively. Clark compared him to JJ Barea with a better shot- But the overwhelming vibe I got was that Brooks was really the guy they felt the P's were targeting and that he was most impressive.

-Clark spoke in length about his role with the P's and mainly his role with Lance. Gushed about Lance's ability and really wanted to mold him into being a man and was enjoying watch him mature. Said he has made great strides since the beginning of the season and that making the play-offs really built up team morale and any petty disagreements that happened between players was forgotten once the Bulls series started. Chris also mentioned he could see a huge difference in how Lance carried himself last night at the celeb softball game and was very impressed. Like most of us have speculated, Larry has big plans for Lance, and Clark specifically said- as a Point Guard.

-Both felt is wasn't "if" but "when" Frank is named head coach. Just a matter of time, and he will be surrounded with veteran assistants

-Matt Howard REALLY wants to play for the P's but understands it's probably not in the cards.

-Of the FA's on our roster they felt that Foster will almost for sure be back next year. Clark thought a team may over-pay for Josh, but he def. wants to stay a Pacer. Didn't speculate on Dun, and said obviously TJ and Solomon are gone.

-Clark raved about George but then expressed the importance that he couldn't quite yet give you 20+ pts a night yet, thus the need for another scorer to help Danny.

-Also mentioned that Chandler was someone the P's have targeted in the past and he is a UFA after this season and we may go after him.

That's what I can remember so far. Alot of it just verified things we already thought/knew but it was nice hear it coming straight from someone in the organization.

-J

My God, I didnt think it was humanly possible. Lance maturing? Positive feedback on Lance?

Thought we were supposed to crucify him downtown? Green

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 12:13 PM
Lance has more natural point guard instincts amnd talents than anyone else we have on the Pacers.

Thak you sir for providing a voice of reason

man somepeople want others to fail so bad it makes them say anything

judicata
06-10-2011, 12:16 PM
Thak you sir for providing a voice of reason

man somepeople want others to fail so bad it makes them say anything

Or they could just evaluate a player differently then you. If you don't see how its a problem trying to convert a lifetime wing into an NBA point guard you're not looking.

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 12:17 PM
Why has he never played point guard at any level of basketball then (until now, that is)?

He played PG for four years in Highschool , and often ran the point at U of Cinncinatti

Hicks
06-10-2011, 12:18 PM
all i know is anyone who can dunk like this can elevate in my books..
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ElMzQOGBPEY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Much like that video of him dunking on DeMarcus Cousins, it's pretty easy to dunk on someone when you can bend your defender backwards with your off arm while you're literally shoving your hand into his face.....

Lance can dunk, but look at that later on shot of that dunk and notice it's not as if his head is up at that rim (it's lower than that). A guy like Wade can get noticeably higher.

Since86
06-10-2011, 12:18 PM
Gotta remember 90's, Clark is a member of PS&E, he's not going to throw around trash at a player. But it is somewhat encouraging. We will just have to wait and see.

Hicks
06-10-2011, 12:21 PM
That doesn't make any sense. If he had the skills someone would have played him there by now, college, high school, or AAU, someone would have done it. It's not like he's 6'8" or something.

No, but he's 6'6", and that's generally seen as "too tall" for the point guard position unless your game is based on being a distributing point guard. But when you're 6'6" and your game is based around scoring, you tend to be classified as a shooting guard.

Lance has the size and game of a shooting guard while also having incredible court vision and incredible passing ability, which is why they're playing around with this idea of using him at point in an age where there are a lot of oversized, scoring point guards in the NBA.

Hicks
06-10-2011, 12:27 PM
I'd love Tyson Chandler.

After watching him in this post season, I'd pass. He's still okay now, but the team who signs him to his next contract will be wanting to trade that same contract within 2 years, maybe less. He's losing/lost his hops. I'd only sign him to back up Roy at this point.

Sookie
06-10-2011, 12:27 PM
Because apparently Bird likes his point guards to be scorers first and passers second, and he prefers them to be big? :confused:

Like you, I don't get why Bird wants to turn an undersized 2 with what appears to be very little natural court vision into a point guard, especially with no experience at the position at any other time prior to his coming to the Pacers.

Actually seems like that's the case.

When he talks about Lance, even though he wants him to be a point, he always mentions how good he is at scoring. What was the quote "If I was a player and I had someone that could score like Lance, I'd make sure he stayed in line" or something like that.

Price has some how transformed from a point guard that used to stop shooting and pout (easily was his most annoying trait as a player) when he missed two shots to high volume shooter, that is forced to be the first option off the bench. (A sign that the team wants him to shoot)

And Collison is certainly a scoring point guard, he was at UCLA. Larry loves him. Although as others have pointed out, he looked to pass much more in New Orleans, and probably would have been better off going down that path of picking when to score but being a primary passer..being his height and all. But he was clearly a scorer in both offenses.

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 12:28 PM
I think my thoughts on Lance are pretty well documented, but I can tell you one thing, if he wants to succeed in this league, it's gonna have to be as a 2 guard. Even Sacramento has accepted that Tyreke Evans isn't a point guard. And Lance isn't more talented than Tyreke Evans.

No offense , but I dont think either you or I are quailified to make that statement

Hicks
06-10-2011, 12:29 PM
You know they might get more than 4 people to show up to something like this if they would let someone know it was happening.

I'm a season ticket holder & I had no idea that this occurred.

I've already re-upped for the season so maybe this was for people on the fence, have you re-upped for next season?

I had a voice mail left the other day by someone with PS&E inviting me to something later this month. I believe it was targeting former ticket holders such as myself to try to get us back.

I was going to ignore it, but now part of me is tempted if it means I can ask some questions to people like Chris and Clark.

Speed
06-10-2011, 12:30 PM
Billups developed into one, but wasn't coming in at all. Nash was a scorer at Santa Clara, he actually played with a Point Guard his first year in the league, I can't remember who it was off the top of my head. Was Rondo considered a Point Guard at Kentucky?

And really the next generation of guys are as much scorers as Point Guards anyway. DRose, Russell Westbrook two of the best and their strength is putting the biscuit in the basket, imo.

Lance's big thing will be maturity, obviously, but as far as on court its defense. You are who you can guard. He either has to figure out how to use that big frame ala Stuckey (side note, is he even a Point Guard?) and muscle guys and stay in front of them or he needs to become so punishing offensively that is negates 'okay' defense against opposing Point Guards. No small task.

Otherwise, he seems to maybe have that anticipation and vision and instinctively, doing the little things to get passing angles or setting up defenders to be out of position, thats soooo rare these days. Simplier way to say it, he may have the gift to make guys around him better by getting them easier shots. That is no small positive thing.

Hicks
06-10-2011, 12:32 PM
My God, I didnt think it was humanly possible. Lance maturing? Positive feedback on Lance?

Thought we were supposed to crucify him downtown? Green

Well, consider the source, and the source's audience, before you run too far with this.

Hicks
06-10-2011, 12:34 PM
No offense , but I dont think either you or I are quailified to make that statement

But that's kind of a weak thing to say on a sports message board because

1) You could technically throw that out during 99% of discussions (but you don't, you only do when it's something like this where you disagree)

2) This board has several smart and/or experienced basketball fans on it (at least one is literally coaching right now), and many of us are at least "okay" when it comes to scouting, some of us are much more than "okay".

Eindar
06-10-2011, 12:36 PM
Isn't the easiest answer as to why Bird wants Lance at PG because he sees Paul George as a Shooting Guard who can guard a hot point guard? If you remember, Kyle Korver killed us because we had someone like AJ or DC guarding him and he simply shot over the top of them. Having someone like Lance who can bring the ball up, run the PnR, and distribute on offense means also being able to have him effectively guard the 2 on the other end if Paul George needs to lock up the 1 spot.

Sookie
06-10-2011, 12:36 PM
After watching him in this post season, I'd pass. He's still okay now, but the team who signs him to his next contract will be wanting to trade that same contract within 2 years, maybe less. He's losing/lost his hops. I'd only sign him to back up Roy at this point.

That's true, he's much better for a contending team then a developing one.

Still, he's the type of post player I like next to someone like Roy.

Speed
06-10-2011, 12:37 PM
I'm starting to get excited that they are excited about Marshon Brooks.

BillS
06-10-2011, 12:41 PM
So your fear is that he will just be a taller Travis Best?

Pshaw, he has already passed early in the shot clock more times than Travis did his entire career. :-o

Larry Staverman
06-10-2011, 12:45 PM
Interesting that a lot of people on here don't believe Lance has point guard skills but the people who have watched him in practice everyday for the last year feel differently.

When Vern Fleming came to the Pacers he had no point guard skills but by the end of his career he was a solid NBA point guard.

vapacersfan
06-10-2011, 12:47 PM
Always have to laugh at the hate this place has for Travis.

I did not know what the internet was back then, but I loved Best (and Rose, and Jackson, amd Smits, and Mully and Reggie)

Hicks
06-10-2011, 12:55 PM
Isn't the easiest answer as to why Bird wants Lance at PG because he sees Paul George as a Shooting Guard who can guard a hot point guard? If you remember, Kyle Korver killed us because we had someone like AJ or DC guarding him and he simply shot over the top of them. Having someone like Lance who can bring the ball up, run the PnR, and distribute on offense means also being able to have him effectively guard the 2 on the other end if Paul George needs to lock up the 1 spot.

You know, that might not be a bad idea.

Of course, what if a team has a high quality scorer at the one and the three? Paul can't cover for Lance AND Danny.... :devil:

Hicks
06-10-2011, 12:56 PM
Always have to laugh at the hate this place has for Travis.

I did not know what the internet was back then, but I loved Best (and Rose, and Jackson, amd Smits, and Mully and Reggie)

I can recall what they're complaining about, but I think it gets beaten to death around here (much like they would say Travis did the ball, but I digress... :D )

OakMoses
06-10-2011, 01:15 PM
Deron Williams did not play PG at Illinois.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

HickeyS2000
06-10-2011, 01:20 PM
I can recall what they're complaining about, but I think it gets beaten to death around here (much like they would say Travis did the ball, but I digress... :D )

Dribble dribble dribble.... dribble dribble dribble...

ECKrueger
06-10-2011, 01:45 PM
I had a voice mail left the other day by someone with PS&E inviting me to something later this month. I believe it was targeting former ticket holders such as myself to try to get us back.

I was going to ignore it, but now part of me is tempted if it means I can ask some questions to people like Chris and Clark.

Was it the cocktail party hosted by Josh McRoberts? I got one like that too.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 02:03 PM
Thak you sir for providing a voice of reason

man somepeople want others to fail so bad it makes them say anything

You're completely missing the point I'm making in this thread then.

It's not that Lance will fail miserably (though I htink he will), my point is simply, if we want him to have any chance to succeed it has to be at the 2.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 02:04 PM
He played PG for four years in Highschool , and often ran the point at U of Cinncinatti

No, he didn't. Specifically the high school stuff, that's just BS. He was recruited as a wing, in fact specifically, he was recruited as a small forward.

If you don't believe me,

Lance was the number 1 SMALL FORWARD in the class

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=1995807

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 02:05 PM
No offense , but I dont think either you or I are quailified to make that statement

Sweet, well I guess I'll just stop posting here then if we're not supposed to offer opinions anymore.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 02:12 PM
Deron Williams did not play PG at Illinois.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

He did play PG his final year there. Dee Brown moved to shooting guard. But for his first couple years, you are correct he played off the ball.

pacer4ever
06-10-2011, 02:19 PM
Probably just matchups.

At SG, he's a tad undersized and isn't a great elevator.

At PG, he's bigger and stronger than probably any PG he may face outside of Tyreke Evans.

Evans doesn't play pg he is a ball dominant SG like Lance(which isnt a bad thing you need more play makers than just your pg ala look at Dallas right now). After his rookie year he quit running pg. Lance would be a good fit playing with DC at SF or SG because he sees the floor better than Dc so they could do good playing together. Lance is a play making wing but he isn't a pg he is a wing with point guard skills IMO. I think we should play him at SF that is his real position if his quickness improves he can move to SG IMO. Making him play pg will most likley result in making him look bad and an eventually moving to wing.

wintermute
06-10-2011, 02:22 PM
Isn't the easiest answer as to why Bird wants Lance at PG because he sees Paul George as a Shooting Guard who can guard a hot point guard? If you remember, Kyle Korver killed us because we had someone like AJ or DC guarding him and he simply shot over the top of them. Having someone like Lance who can bring the ball up, run the PnR, and distribute on offense means also being able to have him effectively guard the 2 on the other end if Paul George needs to lock up the 1 spot.

I was going to say that my concern with Lance as PG is his lack of quickness. Then I saw Eindar's post :D It's a good thought, and yeah maybe it will play out that way.

The issue with Lance at SG is his poor shooting I think. I don't think Lance's playmaking ability should be used to pigeon-hole him at PG - playmaking SG's are a good thing after all, and often the best SGs have PG-like abilities.

So for Lance, it's either learn to shoot to play SG, or get quicker to play PG. Of the two, I think the former is far likelier to happen.

Sookie
06-10-2011, 02:29 PM
Evans doesn't play pg he is a ball dominant SG like Lance(which isnt a bad thing you need more play makers than just your pg ala look at Dallas eight now). After his rookie year he quit running pg. Lance would be a good fit playing with DC at SF or SG because he sees the floor better than Dc so they could do good playing together. Lance is a play making wing but he isn't a pg he is a wing with point guard skills IMO. I think we should play him at SF that is his real position if his quickness improves he can move to SG IMO. Making him play pg will most likley result in making him look bad and an eventually moving to wing.

Lance and DC might struggle to co exist because both like/need to play with the ball in their hands. DC got better at moving without the ball, but that's simply to score, I don't know that he can actually play point off the ball.

Lance and Price are better suited next to each other in terms of style of play. AJ can play PG off the ball, and he provides a shooter (hopefully) to Lance's driving.

Jimmer might be the type of player that could do that, I haven't watched him enough to see how he does off the ball, but the skill set (mainly shooting) seems like it would compliment Lance. Guys like Fisher and Chalmers are other examples. I would bet Billups could too.

And as said..it's far easier for Lance to get better at shooting than it is for him to get better at all of the things he needs to get better at (some may be impossible) in order to be a pg.

Hicks
06-10-2011, 02:34 PM
Evans doesn't play pg he is a ball dominant SG like Lance(which isnt a bad thing you need more play makers than just your pg ala look at Dallas right now). After his rookie year he quit running pg. Lance would be a good fit playing with DC at SF or SG because he sees the floor better than Dc so they could do good playing together. Lance is a play making wing but he isn't a pg he is a wing with point guard skills IMO. I think we should play him at SF that is his real position if his quickness improves he can move to SG IMO. Making him play pg will most likley result in making him look bad and an eventually moving to wing.

Here's the wildcard when it comes to talking about Lance's quickness: His length.

You think Rondo has a sick wingspan? Well, you should, it's eight inches more than his height (6'1" tall, 6'9" wingspan).

Lance also has a pretty freakish wingspan, though not quite that freakish. He's about 6'5" maybe 6'6", but he has a wingspan of 6'10.5". That has to make up for some of that quickness, and for that matter some of his hops as well.

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 02:40 PM
Did Magic Johnson actually play pg in college? I think he was a forward.

If so he transitioned very well to the pg spot.

Let me ask you from a different angle, what do you see in him that tells you he can not succeed as a p.g. in the NBA?

he cant stand him, an argument you cant win

PacerHound
06-10-2011, 02:40 PM
My problem with the Pacers has not been at the power forward position for I think that will take care of itself but at the point guard spot. I want size and the ability to see the floor and make the pass out there. I am 100% behind hanging onto Lance for another year or two and see what we have in him.

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 02:42 PM
I don't believe Lance possesses the feel for the game necessary to be successful as a point guard. He is, however, very good at pounding the ball into oblivion just above the free throw line.

where do you get this crap from? Does your passion against Lance blind u?

I realize he played very limited minutes, but with no experience in the NBA , and getting thrown into the fire , he had the best asst to turnover ratio on the team

maybe you saw something I didnt but I never recall him
"pounding the ball into oblivian"

judicata
06-10-2011, 02:47 PM
where do you get this crap from? Does your passion against Lance blind u?

I realize he played very limited minutes, but with no experience in the NBA , and getting thrown into the fire , he had the best asst to turnover ratio on the team

maybe you saw something I didnt but I never recall him
"pounding the ball into oblivian"

How about you argue the merits instead of taking shots at everyone that disagrees with you?

1) Lance does not come from a PG pedigree

2) Lance is large and a scorer, indicating he could be a great wing (as he played previously).

3) Lance is not very laterally quick, making him questionable at guarding small and fast pgs

4) Lance has shown the inverse of leadership skills, something many people think is critical to the pg position

5) Lance has hardly played in the NBA, and when he did he's doing "ok," at best, at the 1.

There are legitimate points. Whether we think Lance has acted like a dbag in the past is not.

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 02:47 PM
Intelligence. He doesn't have the intelligence to be a PG, and he doesn't have enough talent to make up for the fact that he doesn't have the intelligence to be a pg. This is the big one for me.

He doesn't run an offense. Yes, he's good at getting assists. With flashy passes no doubt. But he doesn't run an offense. And I doubt very much that he gets the concept of anything more than "I dribble the ball, and make a pass to the person who shoots." Yes, I know that can be how Steve Nash and Chris Paul play. Notice neither of them have ever won anything. And also Lance is not nearly as talented as either. And finally, this style of play annoyed the crap out of his teammates. For a player that isn't a Point Guard god, he actually has to run an offense. Make decisions without the ball, call the correct plays ect..Lance doesn't do that.

No way is he mature enough to manage/direct/lead a team. Another big one.


He doesn't have good handles. Once again, flashy handles..yes. good handles. No.

Then on the defensive end. Uh...his feet seem almost cemented.

The biggest difference between a point guard and a shooting guard is mentality. A good majority of shooting guards can make a great pass. It's whether you can lead a team, run an offense, handle the ball, and have the bball IQ to make the proper decisions. (This is of course, other than the fact that some players are forced to learn to play point guard because they can't score. Not the case for Lance though.) Can a player learn that..maybe. I haven't seen to many SG to PG conversions work though, unless the SG already had that mentality/intangibles and just had to score for their previous team.

Wow

I dont understand how you can use the word CAN'T so many times in one paragraph regarding a player one year removed from college, who played for about 10 games and averaged 5-6 minutes a game

You say all these things like they are an absolute fact. Lance has 10 times the talent as someone like your boy AJ. I realize his past transgressions must bother you tremendously but I also think it affects your judgement

And I really think all things outside of Lance/AJ you speak very well on

judicata
06-10-2011, 02:50 PM
I also want to add that I personally think we should keep Lance at the 1. Its a longshot, but the risk is worth it.

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 02:51 PM
:eek:
Limited? I've said many times on here that I've been watching Lance Stephenson play basketball for 5 years. He came onto IU's radar when he was still just a 15 year old. I've never watched him and thought "there goes an NBA point guard" Shooting guard? Yeah, definitely at times, but never a point guard.

Really?

So you watched Lance play while he was in highschool in Coney Island, Brooklyn?

Are you from NY? or is there a cable package that broadcasts local highschool games from NYC , that you can watch in Indiana?

Or did you atatend the University of Cinncinatti?

Really, really struggling to understand how you have been watching Lance for 5 years now

Must have really had an interest in him

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 02:53 PM
[QUOTE=Sookie;1248197]Yea, I watch the Big East, so I've seen him plenty.
QUOTE]

So 1 or 2 games to you is plenty?

I mena he was only in college one year, and if I am not mistaken the Bearcats only won one game in the tourney

naptownmenace
06-10-2011, 02:54 PM
What's funnier is that coaches have TRIED to play him at the point position, at every level of play..and it failed. But I'm sure he can play it at the highest level of competition. I mean, if you can't play the point position in AAU, Highschool, or College...the NBA should be a piece of cake.

We aren't even putting him in a position where he can succeed. Although, I think he's staying in Indy for the summer (sure seems like it) which is a good for the team.

Agreed. His true position is SG. Even though he could probably bring the ball up the court every now and then (DWade, Lebron, and even Kobe do this at times) he's still a SG.

I disagree with anyone that thinks Lance has more natural PG skills than anyone on the Pacers squad. No way he's has more PG skill than Darren Collison.

If the Pacers really want to see Lance reach his potential, it should be at SG off the bench in a Jason Terry/OJ Mayo type of role.

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 02:56 PM
But that's kind of a weak thing to say on a sports message board because

1) You could technically throw that out during 99% of discussions (but you don't, you only do when it's something like this where you disagree)

2) This board has several smart and/or experienced basketball fans on it (at least one is literally coaching right now), and many of us are at least "okay" when it comes to scouting, some of us are much more than "okay".

fair enough

but you tell me those that are after LAnce dont have a personal agenda? the claims made by certain people about having watched Lance extensively for years?

come on man, I am suipposed to believe someone from here watched Lance's highschool games consistently?

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 03:01 PM
You're completely missing the point I'm making in this thread then.

It's not that Lance will fail miserably (though I htink he will), my point is simply, if we want him to have any chance to succeed it has to be at the 2.

I see what your saying my only beef is when you or someone else makes calims like they are an absolute fact

like "The only way he will succeed in the NBA is at the 2 guard" true thats your opinion of which your titled to but my point is that people who haev not only more basketball knowledge than both of us seem toi think differntly

plus its his first freakin year. im sure there are plenty of current NBA players that couldnt do this or that when they came in to the league but worked on it

Jason Kidd was an absolutely horrible 3 pt shooter when he entered the league.. Now he is 3rd all time in 3pt field goals made

xIndyFan
06-10-2011, 03:02 PM
don't know if lance can play the point or not. i am one of the guys that can't always tell if a player can play or not. :shrug: :sigh:

but it does seem that larry bird and the other professionals at the pacer's FO think he can. and it also looks like they want him to.

just a guess, but i would not be surprised to see lance as the backup PG at the start of next season [whenever it actually happens :laugh:]. and if he shows that he can play the point well enough, he will be the starter by the end of the year. a path similar to the one paul george had this year at the 2.

bird seems to like guys with size [more acurately length] at each position. DC seems to be the exception to that rule. and i expect lance to fix that next year. having a physical mismatch is important if you are going to be a smashmouth team. and lance gives that at the point. he seems to be able to use his size and strength to overpower guys the size of AJ or DC. he has a good handle. seems to be a willing passer. seems to see the court pretty well. all those things point to being a PG. my guess the pacers will give him that chance next season.

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 03:02 PM
Sweet, well I guess I'll just stop posting here then if we're not supposed to offer opinions anymore.

dont play with me fam

:)

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 03:03 PM
No, he didn't. Specifically the high school stuff, that's just BS. He was recruited as a wing, in fact specifically, he was recruited as a small forward.

If you don't believe me,

Lance was the number 1 SMALL FORWARD in the class

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=1995807

Dude

He played PG in highschool?

Think Im lyin? Put a g note on it

OakMoses
06-10-2011, 03:03 PM
He did play PG his final year there. Dee Brown moved to shooting guard. But for his first couple years, you are correct he played off the ball.

The 3 of them (Brown, Williams, and Head) were all pretty interchangeable if I remember correctly. It's not to say that he didn't play PG, but he certainly didn't play it exclusively, even though he had really good assist numbers his final two years.

I don't know if Lance can be a PG or not. I've only watched him play in summer league and for the Pacers. I don't know what position he played in HS or college. Here are a few things that come to mind when reading this thread:

1. Whether or not Lance played PG, I can't imagine a scenario where he wasn't always the best player on the floor for his team. I also can't imagine a scenario where he spent a lot of time offensively without the ball in his hands. Whether or not there was a smaller guy who brought the ball up the court sometimes and defended the other team's PG, I'm guessing he's always been his teams primary creative entity on offense.

2. If I were to rank the top 6 passers on the Pacers roster last season, none of them would be named Collison, Price, or Ford. Here's my list in no particular order: Dunleavy, George, Hibbert, McRoberts, Foster, Stephenson.

3. My main concern for Lance at PG is defensively, but I think that PG defense is slightly overrated. You can never stop a great PG (see this season's playoffs), you can only hope to not let mediocre ones beat you. Our PG defense is terrible now. Honestly I don't see Lance making it worse. Though long-term it is a major concern.

4. No player is ever a good NBA player for long if they don't significantly improve their game while they're in the league. Lance has to be willing to admit that he has a lot to learn and to work his *** off to learn it. If Bird and Co. believe that he's willing to do this, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, they've got a lot more at stake than I do.

Kemo
06-10-2011, 03:10 PM
"pounding the ball into oblivian"


LOL for some reason I think of this ....




.
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l7mwsyTEea1qbbpaoo1_500.jpg













.

naptownmenace
06-10-2011, 03:16 PM
[QUOTE=Sookie;1248197]Yea, I watch the Big East, so I've seen him plenty.
QUOTE]

So 1 or 2 games to you is plenty?

I mena he was only in college one year, and if I am not mistaken the Bearcats only won one game in the tourney

I live here in Cincy, have since 1999. Almost all the UC Games are televised here on the local Fox Sports affiliate and of course there's also plenty of news coverage for local sports on the local TV and Radio stations. So I've seen him play plenty of SG and really haven't seen him play a traditional PG role.

Also I watched every episode of his online reality show/documentary, which shows tons of in-game play of Lance and his NY High School team. I recommend anyone that wants to see a good sample of Lance's abilities (albeit against lesser HS talent) watch it. It's at http://www.bornready.tv.

His skill set is tailor-made for SG.

judicata
06-10-2011, 03:20 PM
He was one of the most hyped HS prospects I can remember, so it wouldn't surprise me if folks who follow college ball have seen a good sample of his HS play. Pretty sure UCONN recruited him, at least early on, as well.

Hicks
06-10-2011, 03:32 PM
fair enough

but you tell me those that are after LAnce dont have a personal agenda? the claims made by certain people about having watched Lance extensively for years?

come on man, I am suipposed to believe someone from here watched Lance's highschool games consistently?

I think there are definitely some here who have completely made up their minds on Lance, whether they're right, half-right, wrong, or something else, and I think they're going to stick to their guns unless or until something big happens on the floor to change people's minds.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 03:43 PM
he cant stand him, an argument you cant win

Not a na rgument just my opinion one I've actually tried to back up w/ links and comments including my rebuttal to his magic example. Magic played point in college and highschool

Tom White
06-10-2011, 03:46 PM
fair enough

but you tell me those that are after LAnce dont have a personal agenda? the claims made by certain people about having watched Lance extensively for years?

come on man, I am suipposed to believe someone from here watched Lance's highschool games consistently?

90's, I think you know that I am not a big fan of Lance's previous behavioral problems. With that said, I think the main problem with what is being debated in this thread is the habit most of us have of pigeon-holing a player into a position.

Earlier in this thread it was asked if Magic was a point guard in college. Well, he was whatever he darned well wanted to be. Just put him on the floor and let him play. Heck, the Lakers used him at center in a playoff game vs. Philadelphia (when Kareem was injured) and he was the best player on the floor, even at that position.

Dale Davis was listed as a forward, but was more of a center than Smits. Same thing when JO and Harrington had there last go-round together here. Harrington was being listed as a center! Oh really?

I'm not even close to comparing Lance to Magic, but I think sometimes you just call a basketball player a basketball player and forget about having to use positional descriptions to determine what he does.

Just put five guys on the floor that work together and let them figure it out. Forget about having to have a "name" for whatever position they might be.

I just don't see the point in the whole "he's a this" or "he's a that" argument.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 03:47 PM
:eek:

Really?

So you watched Lance play while he was in highschool in Coney Island, Brooklyn?

Are you from NY? or is there a cable package that broadcasts local highschool games from NYC , that you can watch in Indiana?

Or did you atatend the University of Cinncinatti?

Really, really struggling to understand how you have been watching Lance for 5 years now

Must have really had an interest in him
I did have a major interest. We've been over this probably ten plus times every time this convo comes up. Lance was an IU lean and I watched hs tape constantly via all sorts of online sources. Technology is amazing. I can find tape of just about any iu recruit from the past decade. Lance had a ton an d iw watchad a lot of it. Stupid phone

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 03:52 PM
Dude

He played PG in highschool?

Think Im lyin? Put a g note on it

Back it up bud. I provided a link that called him a small forward. Let's show proof of lance as a pointguard

naptownmenace
06-10-2011, 03:53 PM
It looks like the Bornready.tv site has removed the videos or the site is no longer being maintained. Some of the videos are still up on Youtube though.

You might be able to still watch the videos from Metacafe's site. I'm at work right now and their site is blocked.

We had a thread about all of the videos last summer after he was drafted by the Pacers. Several of us watched them and gave our feedback on Lance's abilities.


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http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=59197&highlight=bornready

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 04:00 PM
Also for the record I have nothing personal against Lance, I hope he becomes a beast for us. I just don't like him as a absketball player nor do I think he is or ever has beeen a pg, why is that such a big deal?
Now let's talk about something else.

Peck
06-10-2011, 04:00 PM
I apologize to the original poster for my part in derailing this into another Lance thread.

imawhat
06-10-2011, 04:08 PM
Can't there be a sticky thread for the Lance point guard debate? It's the same debate with the same members every time and it derails threads.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 04:12 PM
iim going on a Lance sabbatical, I'm offering no opinions on him til Novemberr assuming no lockout.

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 04:14 PM
I did have a major interest. We've been over this probably ten plus times every time this convo comes up. Lance was an IU lean and I watched hs tape constantly via all sorts of online sources. Technology is amazing. I can find tape of just about any iu recruit from the past decade. Lance had a ton an d iw watchad a lot of it. Stupid phone

OK you pull any stream bro where you can show HIGHSCHOOL BASKETBALL GAMES TELEVISED?

Maybe an ESPN sponsored game but you said you "watched him extensively for 5 years now"

So that would inidcate you have been watching his entire highschool career. I question how that is possible or even probable unless you lived in NYC and went to Brooklyn to watch in person on a regualr basis

I dont believe there were tv cameras at every HS game of his

so the reality is , you have seen clips of him, maybe watched a couple U of C games , and his first year with the Pacers

No where near "extensively for 5 years"

Hence why I get a little adjated when claims are made that are taken as absolute fact

Tom White
06-10-2011, 04:15 PM
I apologize to the original poster for my part in derailing this into another Lance thread.

Well you ought to be sorry about it! :laugh: Heck, they didn't even get around to telling us if the breakfast itself was any good.

So, what did they serve you guys anyway?

naptownmenace
06-10-2011, 04:18 PM
Can't there be a sticky thread for the Lance point guard debate? It's the same debate with the same members every time and it derails threads.

True. In hopes of at least returning to the original thread topic.

That must've been really awesome being able to break bread and break down hoops with Clark in particular. He was my first favorite Pacers player and has always been a great role model for NBA players to follow. He knows the game very well so anything he has to say about Lance or any other players, like the draft prospects, I take very seriously.

Their assessment of Marshon Brooks is intriguing. Compared him to Kobe? Even if he was just comparing their physical build or movement on the court, that's a great thing to hear.

Trader Joe
06-10-2011, 04:19 PM
OK you pull any stream bro where you can show HIGHSCHOOL BASKETBALL GAMES TELEVISED?

Maybe an ESPN sponsored game but you said you "watched him extensively for 5 years now"

So that would inidcate you have been watching his entire highschool career. I question how that is possible or even probable unless you lived in NYC and went to Brooklyn to watch in person on a regualr basis

I dont believe there were tv cameras at every HS game of his

so the reality is , you have seen clips of him, maybe watched a couple U of C games , and his first year with the Pacers

No where near "extensively for 5 years"

Hence why I get a little adjated when claims are made that are taken as absolute fact

You would be amazed the amount of video on big high school prospects. Its crazy. Clearly you're bit out of the loop onit. You should check some of the stuff out and that is my last comment on the matter.

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 04:21 PM
Steak and Eggs baby

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 04:22 PM
You would be amazed the amount of video on big high school prospects. Its crazy. Clearly you're bit out of the loop onit. You should check some of the stuff out and that is my last comment on the matter.

you sure

imawhat
06-10-2011, 04:22 PM
Marshon totally looks like Kobe in his moves and shots. He's not as athletic, but I can definitely see the comparison.

I'd like to know more about Clark's involvement with the team. How much time is he spending with them? 40 hours a week? Is it consistent throughout the season?

Was there any trade talk mentioned?

Since86
06-10-2011, 04:22 PM
I dont believe there were tv cameras at every HS game of his

I will step out on a limb and say 99.9% of all HS basketball games are taped. Coaches, even HS coaches, share tape all day long.

College coaches request film from HS coaches, and also companies that market HS kids looking to go to college. They get tape, and then send them everywhere.

Most recruiting sites get film on recruits, and most certainly get film on high profile recruits.

Just because someone says they've seen film on a player, from HS, doesn't have to mean they've seen EVERY high school game they've played. But you can get a ton of film on recruits, whether it's basketball or football, from major recruiting outlets like Rivals, for example.

If you know where to look, you can come up with videos on recruits quite easily.

QuickRelease
06-10-2011, 04:32 PM
If Brian Cardinal can play for the Mavs, then surely there's a slot for Matt Howard, right?

QuickRelease
06-10-2011, 04:38 PM
Does that style of PG win a championship in the NBA? I think the answer is no.Maybe not yet. DOesn't mean it can't be done. And I'd be more than happy if Lance turned out that way.

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 04:38 PM
I will step out on a limb and say 99.9% of all HS basketball games are taped. Coaches, even HS coaches, share tape all day long.

College coaches request film from HS coaches, and also companies that market HS kids looking to go to college. They get tape, and then send them everywhere.

Most recruiting sites get film on recruits, and most certainly get film on high profile recruits.

Just because someone says they've seen film on a player, from HS, doesn't have to mean they've seen EVERY high school game they've played. But you can get a ton of film on recruits, whether it's basketball or football, from major recruiting outlets like Rivals, for example.

If you know where to look, you can come up with videos on recruits quite easily.

Yes you can see lit snippets of information in the manor you described. However if someone says to me "I watched him exetensively for 5 years" then to me that would indicate much much more viewing than a couple of snippets of Lance seen on a youtube remix

I challenge anyone who would claim to have found on the internet a way to watch an entire highschool basketball game regularly

Just like I find it hard to believe that a person who is a Pacer fan randomly decided to watch a highschool player from NY extensively

doesnt make sense to me

so it all comes back to making judgements with limited info

now those that have seen him extensively (Bird, Morway, Wells, Rohbins) all have gushed about the talent he has and have made claims that not only can he run the point but has more potential than anyone on the current roster

add to the fact that Mark Boyle actually came on PD this year and echoed those setiments, I tend to believe those guys

JBones19
06-10-2011, 04:39 PM
Well you ought to be sorry about it! :laugh: Heck, they didn't even get around to telling us if the breakfast itself was any good.

So, what did they serve you guys anyway?

I accept your apology Peck ;)

The breakfast was fantastic, all you can eat sausage, bacon, scrambled eggs with cheese, fruit, and the highlight- a french toast casserole with syrup or strawberry toppings. I hope they didn't throw out what was left over...

JBones19
06-10-2011, 04:45 PM
Marshon totally looks like Kobe in his moves and shots. He's not as athletic, but I can definitely see the comparison.

I'd like to know more about Clark's involvement with the team. How much time is he spending with them? 40 hours a week? Is it consistent throughout the season?

Was there any trade talk mentioned?

Clark made a comment that he works with all of the players, especially the younger ones, in a type of mentorship role. One thing in particular he said I thought was interesting was that a head coach of an NBA team has a 70/30 role. 30% is x's and o's, and the other 70% is player management. Clark helps a bunch with the 70% side of things, and he does it during the season and apparently in the off-season. I don't know how many hours a week it is though.

No trade talk really- the only active nba player they mentioned the P's may be interested in was Chandler and West depending on his knee.

Since86
06-10-2011, 04:50 PM
There's nothing "snippet" about people who frequent recruiting websites. If a recruit sneezes, then it's reported.

I don't know what else to tell you, if you're not going to accept the reality that comes with how much focus falls on recruiting. People who write for Rivals, or similiar sites, will sit out and watch football camps for hours upon hours without getting paid just to report something about recruits.

What I find funny is that your arguing that we've not seen enough on Lance to really know what he's capable of, yet you're arguing that other people are wrong in their opinion from what they've seen, when they've actually seen more than you have on him.

It's okay to have a different opinion on players. We don't all have to agree. Just because we disagree doesn't mean someone is making up their opinion out of thin air, it simply means they have a different opinion than you. There's no need to go at them personally, and pretty much say they're lying about how much they've watched a player.

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 05:04 PM
There's nothing "snippet" about people who frequent recruiting websites. If a recruit sneezes, then it's reported.

I don't know what else to tell you, if you're not going to accept the reality that comes with how much focus falls on recruiting. People who write for Rivals, or similiar sites, will sit out and watch football camps for hours upon hours without getting paid just to report something about recruits.

What I find funny is that your arguing that we've not seen enough on Lance to really know what he's capable of, yet you're arguing that other people are wrong in their opinion from what they've seen, when they've actually seen more than you have on him.

It's okay to have a different opinion on players. We don't all have to agree. Just because we disagree doesn't mean someone is making up their opinion out of thin air, it simply means they have a different opinion than you. There's no need to go at them personally, and pretty much say they're lying about how much they've watched a player.

Let me break this down

A comment is made "I have watched him extensively for 5 years"

based on Lance's age that would mean his highschool career and one year of college

So we can agree thats what we have to go on.

Now I dont doubt, nor ever questioned that you cant get footage of LAnce playing basketball on line thats not the point

The two points are this : Show me where you can watch not only an entire highschool game online because the file would be way too massive to download on sites like youtube. I also find it almost impossible that you could watch every game, in its entirity of a highschool player.

Now it is possible if you lived in the area the highschool is becuase I could see a friend of a friend gets a copy of the game tape because his buddy is the video editor in the highschool. However that is not the case here

The other point is "watched extensively" means to me at least half the game s he played in. So yes, I dont believe the poster took an interest in Lance during his freshman year , while playing HS ball in NYC, so serious that he watched the majority of his games. He didnt , and I call BS. He might have watched highlights composed through media sources, but please show me a link to a website where I can consistently watch an out of state Highschool basketball team . Not little parts here and there but every week I can go to the site and watch the entire game


As for me? Yes I have seen several games in person at Lincoln Highschool in Coney Isalnd Brooklyn, NY on Surf Ave

Why? I love B-Ball and one of my best friendsa was cool with Steph Marburry

that being said I in know way claim to have watched Lance extensively, nor do I make comments that are opinions seem like absolute facts

ta da

Justin Tyme
06-10-2011, 05:08 PM
seem that larry bird and the other professionals at the pacer's FO think he can. and it also looks like they want him to.


Wanting something to be is different than what the reality of it. Falling in love with something and wanting it to be happens all the time. Just b/c Bird wants it doesn't mean it is capable of happening.

This is Bird's pick, and Larry Bird doesn't like being wrong when he backs a decision. (Then most of us don't.) I remember on numerous occasions of my life wanting something so very badly and thinking it could happen, but you can't "make a sows ear into a silk purse." Trying to push a square peg into a round hole just doesn't work in order to get what you want. It has been expressed what assets and liabilities Stephenson has, and Stephenson IMO isn't a pure PG. He isn't the PG of the future. He's a scoring combo guard at best. Bird has several opportunities this draft to address getting a Big PG for the future. One who has experience playing PG. Even Bird has admitted he should have drafted Rondo, so don't make the same mistake this time b/c you want Stephenson to be something he isn't.

vapacersfan
06-10-2011, 05:11 PM
I wrote for Rivals and a smaller (child site) for local VA schools.

We were in no way paid, and I had co-workers who would drive all througout the state to cover games, for free. I only worked for my high school and a few other close ones, and my incentive was to see some great ball (Scotty Reyonolds was always fun to watch)

That said, some of them film that Rivals took (for free) I know for a fact was shared with recruiters when Eddie Royal was talking about going pro.

So yes, lots of film is available. And I can say with 100% confidence that yes, you can watch extensive film, even if you are out of state (or even out of country)

Now to me it sounds like the argument is going to turn into what extensive is, and I have no interest is going down that road. But film (and analysis, albeit normally not scots at the 9th and 10th grade level) are available, and fairly easily is you know where to look

QuickRelease
06-10-2011, 05:12 PM
How about you argue the merits instead of taking shots at everyone that disagrees with you?

1) Lance does not come from a PG pedigree

2) Lance is large and a scorer, indicating he could be a great wing (as he played previously).

3) Lance is not very laterally quick, making him questionable at guarding small and fast pgs

4) Lance has shown the inverse of leadership skills, something many people think is critical to the pg position

5) Lance has hardly played in the NBA, and when he did he's doing "ok," at best, at the 1.

There are legitimate points. Whether we think Lance has acted like a dbag in the past is not.

6) He's still a very young player who will hopefully get every chance to develop, and change some of those negatives into positives.

90'sNBARocked
06-10-2011, 05:16 PM
I wrote for Rivals and a smaller (child site) for local VA schools.

We were in no way paid, and I had co-workers who would drive all througout the state to cover games, for free. I only worked for my high school and a few other close ones, and my incentive was to see some great ball (Scotty Reyonolds was always fun to watch)

That said, some of them film that Rivals took (for free) I know for a fact was shared with recruiters when Eddie Royal was talking about going pro.

So yes, lots of film is available. And I can say with 100% confidence that yes, you can watch extensive film, even if you are out of state (or even out of country)

Now to me it sounds like the argument is going to turn into what extensive is, and I have no interest is going down that road. But film (and analysis, albeit normally not scots at the 9th and 10th grade level) are available, and fairly easily is you know where to look

yes I agree with you you can watch a lot of FILM IE video tapes and copies of

I doubt you can go online somewhere and regualarly watch a HS game in its entirity and every week consistently

The method you are describing is much different and reminds me of people in scouting and nba circles obtain "tape" on a player

Also find it really difficult to believe someone living in Indiana would take such a huge interst in a highschool player form NYC

no biggie, I will stop ( even though Puff said "I thought I told ya that we wont stop, thought I told ya that we wont stop")

IF I went overboard my bad to anyone. just a passionate cat that all

no beef Joe, respect your opinoin

no more coffee for me though :)

Peck
06-10-2011, 05:20 PM
Good God this is getting old.

BringJackBack
06-10-2011, 05:23 PM
^Couldn't agree more Peck. There is so much information to be talked about, such as Marshon, Jimmer, Tyson, David West, Paul George, Jeff Foster not retiring, etc.. and it's all been highjacked.

PS- I don't think the pick will be traded anymore. I don't think it has very much value.

QuickRelease
06-10-2011, 05:48 PM
I accept your apology Peck ;)

The breakfast was fantastic, all you can eat sausage, bacon, scrambled eggs with cheese, fruit, and the highlight- a french toast casserole with syrup or strawberry toppings. I hope they didn't throw out what was left over...
:drool:

QuickRelease
06-10-2011, 05:54 PM
Any chance Brooks goes higher than 15?

Pacerfan
06-10-2011, 06:00 PM
I'm really glad Jeff will most likely will be back. He was really important in the playoffs. I feel he should be played very rarely during the season and slowly worked in as the playoffs approach (as long as we are comfortably in the top eight seeds). A healthy Jeff is a very important part of this team in the playoffs. With his recent problems and age it would be wise to conserve him during the year. He can start on that coaching during the season and be Fiesty Foster once again in the playoffs.

owl
06-10-2011, 06:44 PM
Interesting that a lot of people on here don't believe Lance has point guard skills but the people who have watched him in practice everyday for the last year feel differently.

When Vern Fleming came to the Pacers he had no point guard skills but by the end of his career he was a solid NBA point guard.


Great observation and memory. By the time he was done he was a very good point.
Got to play against Vern and Vic his twin once or twice. Great handles for a 6'5" guard, and I mean good handles.

Speed
06-10-2011, 06:54 PM
Clark made a comment that he works with all of the players, especially the younger ones, in a type of mentorship role. One thing in particular he said I thought was interesting was that a head coach of an NBA team has a 70/30 role. 30% is x's and o's, and the other 70% is player management. Clark helps a bunch with the 70% side of things, and he does it during the season and apparently in the off-season. I don't know how many hours a week it is though.

No trade talk really- the only active nba player they mentioned the P's may be interested in was Chandler and West depending on his knee.

I completely buy into the 70/30 deal.

Professor S
06-10-2011, 07:19 PM
Any chance Brooks goes higher than 15?

As he's seemingly the Pacers latest draft crush, this is the question I find myself asking as well.

Sookie
06-10-2011, 08:28 PM
I think there are definitely some here who have completely made up their minds on Lance, whether they're right, half-right, wrong, or something else, and I think they're going to stick to their guns unless or until something big happens on the floor to change people's minds.

Yup, I'll fully admit to it. I've got my mind made up about Lance after what I've seen/heard about him.

Off court issues..yea. I won't go there. But I certainly don't like that. And once again..he'll have to go more than three months without a problem in order for that to change.

And he'll have to show that he can be a point guard before I say he's a point guard.

That said, as Trader stated..I've given my opinion enough on this. And I'll stop until he actually plays for us. I apologize for my part in the derailing too.

Now on the coach...I agree with the 70/30 bit. Coach's are as much psychologists as anything. Good to see people are helping Vogel out with that too. It's not that I don't think he's capable..it's that he's new and young..and that type of person does need the help. Vogel needs to learn too..(and I think he's a quick learner.)

Kemo
06-10-2011, 08:46 PM
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PQFhRBB8LQo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

joeyd
06-10-2011, 10:02 PM
I had a voice mail left the other day by someone with PS&E inviting me to something later this month. I believe it was targeting former ticket holders such as myself to try to get us back.

I was going to ignore it, but now part of me is tempted if it means I can ask some questions to people like Chris and Clark.

Hey, you could always go to the next event, get wowwed and stoked for next season, and then go in with me for lower level season tickets! Haven't made my formal pitch for STH partners for next season, but am always looking for another couple of fans to go in with.

Larry Staverman
06-10-2011, 10:12 PM
Good God this is getting old.

Maybe it would be easier to let it play out on the court!

wseward
06-10-2011, 10:23 PM
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9v8W2pumHX8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

CooperManning
06-10-2011, 10:44 PM
https://twitter.com/#!/TheHoopsReport


Marshon Brooks sat out the Cavs workout today because of a fatigued ankle. He'll have a private workout w/ the Bucks on Sunday in Chicago.

Let's hope Marshon doesn't really become this year Paul George by going #10.

BlueNGold
06-10-2011, 10:56 PM
That doesn't make any sense. If he had the skills someone would have played him there by now, college, high school, or AAU, someone would have done it. It's not like he's 6'8" or something.

I don't know whether it makes sense or not. What I do know is he has tremendous PG skills that are all-star level JKidd type skills. Bird and Kellogg both know that. It's the only reason he is still on the team with all the trouble he brings. No way is he any kind of answer on the wing. Fact is, he may not be a bad wing but he has a shot at being a great PG. Only a shot though because he needs to shore up his defense which looks like Sarunas out there.

pwee31
06-10-2011, 10:58 PM
I went to a season ticket holder breakfast this morning at Conseco that was held in the player's locker room. To my surprise there were only 4 of us that showed up and the guest speakers were Chris Denari and Clark Kellogg. Because there were only a few of us, we all just sat down at a table and chatted hoops for an hour. The tidbits that I remember and stuck out to me were-

-Both Chris and Clark listed the players that impressed them the most that worked out for us were in this consensus order- Marshon Brooks, Tobias Harris, Jimmer. Chris and Clark raved about Brooks saying he was a pure scorer and that's something the P's were obviously looking for and Clark commented on Brooks' tremendous length and how he really did look like Kobe when he first came into the league. Clark also seemed impressed with Harris potential, and both agreed that there was a place for Jimmer in this league just because he can shoot the basketball so effectively. Clark compared him to JJ Barea with a better shot- But the overwhelming vibe I got was that Brooks was really the guy they felt the P's were targeting and that he was most impressive.

-Clark spoke in length about his role with the P's and mainly his role with Lance. Gushed about Lance's ability and really wanted to mold him into being a man and was enjoying watch him mature. Said he has made great strides since the beginning of the season and that making the play-offs really built up team morale and any petty disagreements that happened between players was forgotten once the Bulls series started. Chris also mentioned he could see a huge difference in how Lance carried himself last night at the celeb softball game and was very impressed. Like most of us have speculated, Larry has big plans for Lance, and Clark specifically said- as a Point Guard.

-Both felt is wasn't "if" but "when" Frank is named head coach. Just a matter of time, and he will be surrounded with veteran assistants

-Matt Howard REALLY wants to play for the P's but understands it's probably not in the cards.

-Of the FA's on our roster they felt that Foster will almost for sure be back next year. Clark thought a team may over-pay for Josh, but he def. wants to stay a Pacer. Didn't speculate on Dun, and said obviously TJ and Solomon are gone.

-Clark raved about George but then expressed the importance that he couldn't quite yet give you 20+ pts a night yet, thus the need for another scorer to help Danny.

-Also mentioned that Chandler was someone the P's have targeted in the past and he is a UFA after this season and we may go after him.

That's what I can remember so far. Alot of it just verified things we already thought/knew but it was nice hear it coming straight from someone in the organization.

-J

Definitely thank you for posting.

Interesting about Tobias Harris. Wasn't the biggest fan at Tennessee, but appears the potential is there. Definitely sounds like Marshon Brooks could be the guy were target at #15. Also makes you wonder if he's the guy with them sharing that info, and if he can be had later maybe.

Nice Lance might be maturing. One issue with Lance that I've noticed is he uses is off arm quite a bit. He'll have to not be so obvious with that as offensive fouls take place.

After recent reports, only a matter of when for Vogel. I've felt that way this entire time though.

I wouldn't mind Matt Howard as 15th player off the bench. He's not athletic, but he has all the intangibles and could be a nice off the bench as a big in spot minutes. There's worse players in the NBA

Felt the same about our FAs

Expecting George to take a nice step, but agree 20ppg is not in the cards just yet. Wouldn't think they turn to a rookie like Brooks to be that scoring next to Granger though I could be wrong.

Chandler will get paid nicely in Dallas win or lose. Pacers will definitely have to overpay if they want him.

Hicks
06-10-2011, 11:38 PM
Hey, you could always go to the next event, get wowwed and stoked for next season, and then go in with me for lower level season tickets! Haven't made my formal pitch for STH partners for next season, but am always looking for another couple of fans to go in with.

Well, unfortunately, I'll probably have to make it two seasons in a row that I can't be a STH. :( I work nights a few times a week, and the schedule usually changes, and if that weren't enough it's just not very economical for me right now.

But if my job situation changes.... I may have to shake some coins out of the couch and find a way back. I miss it.

ChristianDudley
06-10-2011, 11:41 PM
Chandler as in Tyson Chandler, or Wilson Chandler??

pwee31
06-11-2011, 12:15 AM
Chandler as in Tyson Chandler, or Wilson Chandler??

Tyson Chandler. That's my assumption as I've heard rumors of interest in the past for Tyson Chandler in terms of the Pacers, and nothing on Wilson Chandler

BlueNGold
06-11-2011, 09:51 AM
Tyson Chandler would resolve our issues at C...but more important he would bring leadership. The Pacers still do not have a natural born leader like that.

Doug
06-11-2011, 10:07 AM
Thanks for posting. Sounds like a great breakfast. I gave up my tickets last year and got a call from a ticket rep a couple of weeks ago asking about renewing. I wish he would have invited me to this. I guess I didn't sound like I was "on the fence" enough.

D-BONE
06-11-2011, 01:01 PM
Tyson Chandler would be great for us on many levels, not the least of which is vet leadership/mentoring. Seems it would almost certainly mean Roy moving to 2nd unit, or maybe moving elsewhere all together (although I doubt it).

Roy off the bench could be a serious weapon. I don't see how you play Roy and Tyson at the same time. As important as Chandler's been to the Mavs run this year, I expect he's going to get paid handsomely. Not to mention, he probably likes Dallas' team/chemistry/quality. So I can't imagine us landing him.