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ballism
06-09-2011, 10:42 PM
I thought this was interesting. I know there are fans here. Ford has him going at 14 in his latest mock - right before our pick. Likely to go higher, but who knows.


What if I told you that there is a center who's been in this league four years, who stands just 6-foot-9, and can't shoot. He also has poor hands, one reason he really can't rebound either (except for balls that come right to him). Did I mention he can't score in the paint either? Well, he can't, averaging just 2.5 ppg for his career. Now, would you believe me when I told you this non-shooting, non-scoring, non-rebounding player started at center many times in the postseason? Oh, and his team is two wins away from winning a title.

That's right, Joel Anthony is that guy, and he's an interesting player to evaluate because this draft features a player who's a lot like him -- Bismack Biyombo. At the very least, it appears Biyombo can be slightly more effective, meaning a team can find its future starting center in this draft. That's no easy feat considering the last two drafts have produced only two players that we know can be starting centers (DeMarcus Cousins and Greg Monroe). The thing is, any team that drafts Biyombo will need him to be far more effective than Anthony, because Anthony has the benefit of playing with two of the best players in the world on the Miami Heat. Biyombo won't have that luxury.

Let's break down his game:


To begin with, we need to talk about Biyombo's age. There are rumors that he is older than his listed age of 18. That may be true, but it might not matter all that much. For argument's sake, let's say he's as old as 24. Even at that age, he's younger than many of his opponents in the Spanish league, and he performed well for his playoff-qualifying team there. He may not have as many years to improve but he's ready to help a team, and don't forget that Anthony is 28. Any team drafting Biyombo hopes to be a serious contender in the next four years, and knowing it has a center who should be a better overall player than Anthony would be comforting, especially when he'll be on a rookie contract. If he's indeed 18, or just 20, and is a good rotation player for a good team in the second-best basketball league in the world, then he's even more enticing as a draft pick because his ceiling will appear much higher.

What Biyombo brings to the game right now is exactly what you'd expect when you first see him. He has amazingly long arms, and he uses them as often as he can. That part is easy to see. But I like his nimbleness in defending ball screens and closing out shooters. Other than a few occasions when he stumbles, Biyombo has a smart and mature approach to the way he plays defense. He anticipates well and is not one of those shot-blockers who never wants to leave the paint. He has an advanced understanding of team defense, clearly coming from his experiences playing at such a high level. It would be fair to assume that his team in Spain would go undefeated in any major college conference in America, and that should give you some indication of the talent level there.

Many Spanish teams run complicated offensive sets, full of multiple screens and off-ball actions, yet Biyombo pings from spot to spot as if he's part of a choreographed dance routine. It's the kind of instant recognition required in the NBA to defend great offenses, but is rarely seen in rookies. Biyombo's learning curve in this area will be small. Of course, everyone wants to see him block shots, and he will do that in the NBA. Because he's good at getting good defensive position, he's frequently in the right place to make a play on the shooter. To get a paint bucket on him will require a strong lift and finish, because he eats up anything soft. If within three years he anchors a team that is a top 10 defensive unit, I will not be surprised. This is not some skinny kid who's going to get pushed around. His strength and activity help him on the glass as well. He's a hungry rebounder who flows to the ball well.

Biyombo does not project to be much of an impact guy on offense. His hook shot is flat (though that's easily improved) and his natural scoring instincts are not strong. But I saw something in him that will help him a great deal in the NBA: His second bounce is outstanding and quick. This will not impact his offensive game as much as it will help him on the offensive glass. With those arms and that bounce, Biyombo can be a terror cleaning up the missed shots of teammates.

The biggest issue facing Biyombo is his weak passing. He looks to have major problems dealing with strong closeouts on a dead dribble, so I expect a lot of turnovers early on. This kind of problem can be coached up, as can the other big adjustment he'll have to make. He'll no longer be anywhere close to being the best athlete on the floor. That was often the case in Spain, and it allowed him to impact the game in ways that did not require any skill. In the NBA, though, he'll need to refine his game and build on it in order to play at a high level.

A word of caution to Biyombo: Joel Anthony is a fan favorite because of the way he plays for a guy who went undrafted. More is expected of a top-10 pick, so even if Biyombo is as good as Anthony, that won't be enough in the eyes of most.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?name=nba_draft&id=6644358&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fblog%3fname%3dnba_draft%26id%3d6644358

ChristianDudley
06-09-2011, 11:54 PM
It sure would be nice if Biyombo would slide to us...I think he could wind up as an Ibaka-type player.

LetsTalkPacers
06-10-2011, 12:42 AM
Sadly Im a fan of Biyombo. Which means he will probably be a bust. Lets just say I wouldnt make a good scout. I wanted gerald green instead of danny. I wanted darrell aurthur instead of Hibbert. i wanted ekpe oduh instead of George, and so on. point being if I like him chances are he will suck. So be warned hes the player I want.

Pacersalltheway10
06-10-2011, 12:47 AM
Sadly Im a fan of Biyombo. Which means he will probably be a bust. Lets just say I wouldnt make a good scout. I wanted gerald green instead of danny. I wanted darrell aurthur instead of Hibbert. i wanted ekpe oduh instead of George, and so on. point being if I like him chances are he will suck. So be warned hes the player I want.

Do everything you can to not like him then. ;)

LetsTalkPacers
06-10-2011, 12:57 AM
Do everything you can to not like him then. ;)
Hey, on a good note I really loathe the concept of us drafting mini Reddick, I mean Jimmer. So maybe he will be awesome.

wintermute
06-10-2011, 02:33 PM
I'd be pretty happy if Biyombo falls to us. Truth to tell, I think middle of first round is his sweet spot. Top 10 is too risky for him I think, and I don't see him falling to the late first.

He seems perfect for our frontcourt. Low-usage, high effort defender and rebounder, can play PF or C alongside Hibbert or Hans. You hope his offense will come along, but for now he'll be an effective garbageman.

cdash
06-10-2011, 03:09 PM
Comparing him to Joel Anthony is not exactly a ringing endorsement of his NBA potential.

rexnom
06-10-2011, 03:36 PM
Comparing him to Joel Anthony is not exactly a ringing endorsement of his NBA potential.
It does put things in perspective though. Do you want more than a starting center with the 15?

NapTonius Monk
06-10-2011, 03:46 PM
I don't think Biyombo is going to be much more than a journeyman big.

NapTonius Monk
06-10-2011, 03:50 PM
It does put things in perspective though. Do you want more than a starting center with the 15?Joel Anthony is a starter because Miami's salary cap demands it to be so; and because Dampier should be spelled Damnpier, because of how much his mediocre, sub-par play makes you want to cuss.

Justin Tyme
06-10-2011, 03:52 PM
I don't think Biyombo is going to be much more than a journeyman big.


You mean like Solo, Foster, McBob, and possibly Hans?

ballism
06-10-2011, 04:03 PM
Well to be fair to the article, Thorpe isn't saying he'll be a Joel Anthony. He just said they are similar. His projection was a more efficient Anthony with dominant offensive rebounding.

Personally, I'd risk a no.8-15 pick on him gladly.
Anyway, it's refreshing to hear a more pragmatic "more efficient Joel Anthony with a great second jump" instead of another "has the tools to be a Ben Wallace". It's never fair to compare these kids to Hall of Famers.

Really?
06-10-2011, 05:10 PM
Yeah I am starting to cool on Biyombo, maybe because I haven't seen a lot of him lately... or maybe because when I look at the tape of him I doubt that he will be able to do as many of the things he has done against lesser competition in the NBA..

I wish the kid luck but not sure on him anymore. This was before the Joel Anthony comparisons by the way... I wasn't a big Ibaka fan either but I am starting to see the potential..

OakMoses
06-10-2011, 07:02 PM
I heard a lot of good things when I read that article. It actually raised my (completely uninformed) opinion of him quite a bit.

What I heard was "18-20 year old kid who combines the tools to be an outstanding shotblocker with an excellent understanding of team defensive concepts who can probably guard most bigs at either position well and can hold his own as a rebounder." Sure, he gets compared to Joel Anthony, but if he winds up being a shorter version of Tyson Chandler or Kendrick Perkins you're going to be ecstatic, especially if he can play next to Hibbert.

pacers74
06-10-2011, 07:25 PM
At 15 I think he is well worth the risk. I would take him at anywhere around 8-15. He might devolp into a starting caliber PF, or he might be a bust. This draft just sucks. If this was last year he might be a top 20 but not a lottery pick.

NapTonius Monk
06-10-2011, 07:33 PM
You mean like Solo, Foster, McBob, and possibly Hans?Yep, minus Foster.

PR07
06-10-2011, 07:33 PM
He kind of sounds to me like Tyrus Thomas.

NapTonius Monk
06-10-2011, 07:34 PM
Well to be fair to the article, Thorpe isn't saying he'll be a Joel Anthony. He just said they are similar. His projection was a more efficient Anthony with dominant offensive rebounding.

Personally, I'd risk a no.8-15 pick on him gladly.
Anyway, it's refreshing to hear a more pragmatic "more efficient Joel Anthony with a great second jump" instead of another "has the tools to be a Ben Wallace". It's never fair to compare these kids to Hall of Famers.
Agreed, although Ben Wallace isn't a Hall of Famer.

Really?
06-10-2011, 07:39 PM
He kind of sounds to me like Tyrus Thomas.

I remember when Thomas showed up big in college basketball.... and decided to go to the draft... there were so many hi comparisons for him. I don't think he is horrible right now... but he definitely didn't reach the potential that people had for him.

But remember this guy is still only 24... lol some think Biyombo is 24 right now as well...

ballism
06-10-2011, 08:19 PM
Agreed, although Ben Wallace isn't a Hall of Famer.

I think he's in a similar position as Grant Hill. Probably slightly better due to winning. He had 6 amazing years. If he had at least 10 of those, he would be a no brainer. Now, who knows.

OakMoses
06-10-2011, 10:28 PM
He kind of sounds to me like Tyrus Thomas.

Except for the part about him having a high level understanding of how to play team defense. If Tyrus Thomas understood had an idea of how to play team basketball, he'd be an all-star. I don't think Biyombo projects to have as much offensive game as Thomas. Tyrus is a classic example of the whole being much less than the sum of the parts.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

cdash
06-11-2011, 02:22 AM
It does put things in perspective though. Do you want more than a starting center with the 15?

Like someone else said, Anthony is only a starting center because the salary cap demands it, and he is surrounded by the MoHeatos. On a normal team, he is an upper middle class man's Solomon Jones. And no, I don't want that with the 15th pick, even in a weak draft.

ensergio
06-11-2011, 08:48 AM
Biyombo workout was bad. Very bad.

http://twitter.com/#!/DraftExpress

ballism
06-11-2011, 08:57 AM
Biyombo workout was bad. Very bad.

http://twitter.com/#!/DraftExpress

Interesting workout. If your calling card is defensive awareness, how do you display that in a workout against a chair?

wintermute
06-11-2011, 08:58 AM
Biyombo workout was bad. Very bad.

http://twitter.com/#!/DraftExpress

That's fine. More chance that he'll drop to us.

I don't have very high expectations on Biyombo. But that's fine because I don't have high expectations out of #15. For example, I'd be happy getting Faried at that spot, and I like Biyombo a lot more than Faried. I do think Biyombo will be a very high level role player at least, and his skills are the sort that's always in demand in the league. If he develops any sort of offensive game, that would be a bonus.

BlueNGold
06-11-2011, 09:32 AM
Like someone else said, Anthony is only a starting center because the salary cap demands it, and he is surrounded by the MoHeatos. On a normal team, he is an upper middle class man's Solomon Jones. And no, I don't want that with the 15th pick, even in a weak draft.

Yes. Here is the part that stands out: "The thing is, any team that drafts Biyombo will need him to be far more effective than Anthony, because Anthony has the benefit of playing with two of the best players in the world on the Miami Heat. Biyombo won't have that luxury."

Anthony is only a little better than Solo. He still can't score when no one is guarding him because everyone is paying so much attention to DWade, LeBron and Bosh. Anthony is a decent defender, but Solo has shown he can defend a little too. So, your description is on the mark.

owl
06-11-2011, 09:46 AM
Despite the bad hands, the lack of skills & general polish, you still can't teach the agility & explosiveness Bismack Biyombo's showing here


A quote from one of the twitters....

If he is there at 15 absolutely take him and I still might trade up to get him.

Most likely going for a shooting guard though.
Klay,Marshon or the Jimmer. I believe Marshon is the guy. If Bismack is available that will be very interesting.

ensergio
06-11-2011, 11:09 AM
I'm happy that the workout was bad. Maybe he can slide to us.
Biyombo has limitations, but his athleticism and defensive approach is sometime i want to see next to Hibbert.

SMosley21
06-11-2011, 12:56 PM
There's just something that I don't trust about a guy that no one had even heard of until a few months ago. I seriously had never even heard the dude's name mentioned before I saw it here on PD. I'm not looking forward to the Pacers using their pick to experiment on someone who by all accounts has no actual basketball skills, just a lot of physical tools.

imawhat
06-11-2011, 02:27 PM
He's got skills. He has some of the best defensive instincts I've seen from a raw player. He looks like Ben Wallace with extra athleticism. If he were 7' I'd compare him to Dwight Howard. He has that same explosiveness around the basket.

cdash
06-11-2011, 02:29 PM
There's just something that I don't trust about a guy that no one had even heard of until a few months ago. I seriously had never even heard the dude's name mentioned before I saw it here on PD. I'm not looking forward to the Pacers using their pick to experiment on someone who by all accounts has no actual basketball skills, just a lot of physical tools.

Call it the "Serge Ibaka effect". If it weren't for Serge, the love for Biyombo likely wouldn't be nearly as plentiful on this board.

BringJackBack
06-11-2011, 02:29 PM
I think that Biyombo has a high ceiling defensively, ala Josh Smith/Tyrus Thomas with better team defense, and something like Dejuan Blair's rebounding and offense. Which is exactly what we need for Roy.

But he has a good chance of busting.

BringJackBack
06-11-2011, 02:32 PM
Call it the "Serge Ibaka effect". If it weren't for Serge, the love for Biyombo likely wouldn't be as plentiful on this board.

I wouldn't say that. Not for me anyways. I like him because he plays a position of need, he is young, and he has a skill set that we need very badly at the 4 spot. And at 15 in this draft, it isn't a do or die situation.

cdash
06-11-2011, 02:35 PM
I wouldn't say that. Not for me anyways. I like him because he plays a position of need, he is young, and he has a skill set that we need very badly at the 4 spot. And at 15 in this draft, it isn't a do or die situation.

You would be a lot more skeptical of his chances of success if it weren't for Serge, no?

xIndyFan
06-11-2011, 02:38 PM
fwiw, i would be ok with biyombo. or jeremy tyler. or one of the other internationals.

i want the pacers to draft a guy that has a chance to be a starter on a good team. a guy with size for his position. not an undersized wing guy of some kind that can score. pacers can get undersized role player types anytime in free agency.

draft more for potential and risk the bust potential. get a guy that has a chance to be a good player.

BringJackBack
06-11-2011, 02:45 PM
You would be a lot more skeptical of his chances of success if it weren't for Serge, no?

No, the only times I've seen the Thunder play this year was the times when they faced us, a couple times when they first got Perk, and the Denver series. I don't watch that much basketball outside of the Pacers, the Playoffs, and around the trade deadline.

I am skeptical of Bismack. If we got him, I wouldn't expect him to play for two years, and possibly never even play. But it is a risk that I would be happy taking because potentially he could be everything we need at PF.

Same for Marshon Brooks. He is a very good scorer, but chances are he's going to be more of a Nick Young/Joe Crawford one dimensional player than an all around player that can create his own shot. But it's a good risk to take because there's that chance that he can be a two way player.

I hope that makes sense.

pacer4ever
06-11-2011, 03:18 PM
Call it the "Serge Ibaka effect". If it weren't for Serge, the love for Biyombo likely wouldn't be nearly as plentiful on this board.

Bismack isnt any where near Serge Ibaka IMO. Serge is so much quicker laterally and Serge's offensive game looks likes Dirks compared to Bismack. Bismack literally has no offense right now out side of a dunk. Serge is also bigger Serge will be a 15 and 11 guy i think. The way his jumper improved last year was pretty impressive. Maybe Bismack can develop offense but i doubt it the guy is so raw he looks lost on offense IMO. Ibaka iMO will be one of the biggest forces at his postion in a few years he already really changes the game on defense he is truly an incredible talent IMO.

owl
06-11-2011, 10:26 PM
One scout said during the workout, "This is no different than that (Jeremy) Tyler kid that was here last year."

Maybe, but one big difference is above the shoulders. Bismack speaks multiple languages and is grounded personally from all reports.

imawhat
06-12-2011, 01:08 AM
Damn. He just officially measured with a 9'4" reach. That's higher than Dwight Howard and Greg Oden. Also, 6'8" without shoes which means he's closing in on 6'10" on the court.

Combine his athleticism with his size and he's exactly the kind of guy we need to pair with Tyler and Roy..especially Tyler.

He had an unremarkable offensive showing today, which I'm hoping will hurt his stock. I'd love to pick him up but I fully don't expect it to happen. When was the last time Bird went with a defensive specialist in the draft? I guess we got Dahntay in free agency.

Anthem
06-12-2011, 01:34 AM
When was the last time Bird went with a defensive specialist in the draft? I guess we got Dahntay in free agency.
Brandon Rush?

imawhat
06-12-2011, 01:43 AM
He got Rush because of his 3 point shooting. In the draft presser he didn't mention defense until he said "He shoots like Kareem but he plays defense". I should expand by saying who was the last defensive specialist we drafted that couldn't shoot.

Strummer
06-12-2011, 04:51 AM
Here's some video of his workout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgNY0cFr1JM

Kemo
06-12-2011, 04:58 AM
You mean like Solo, Foster, McBob, and possibly Hans?

..... and HOW exactly is Foster a journeyman?

and for that matter McBob?
Do you even know what the definition of a journeyman is??

wow..


.

ballism
06-12-2011, 09:22 AM
..... and HOW exactly is Foster a journeyman?

and for that matter McBob?
Do you even know what the definition of a journeyman is??

wow..


.

Non-star, non-core, "expendable" player?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journeyman_%28sports%29

If I understand correctly, the guy was simply saying that Joel Anthony, Foster, McBob -> similar career track.

I'd gladly have Joel Anthony as the 3rd big on this current team.
Even if Biyombo is just a more efficient Joel Anthony with great rebounding - that's very valuable for this team.
And if his age is correct, there could be a considerable upside over that.
If he somehow drops, to me it's a no-brainer.