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Bball
05-30-2011, 05:43 PM
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Flyover.
The B2 Bomber turns after the flyover.


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Balloons! Release the balloons! More balloons! Balloons!

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Alex Lloyd in pits.

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Graham Rahal pits early in the race. At one point Graham's crew told him he'd just ran the fastest lap in the race and had the car to beat.

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Will Power returns to the pits missing a left rear wheel. There was a problem with the left rear tire change but apparently Power (or whoever releases him on the team) didn't get the memo and so pulled out and quickly saw his left rear spin off and go bouncing down pitwall. AFAIK, that didn't earn him a penalty except for the track position he lost returning to the pits for a replacement cost him.

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Contender Scott Dixon

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Tony Kanaan's crew has to pull Kanaan back into his pit stall after being blocked by an exiting Pippa Mann (who was pitted behind Kanaan).

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Penske driver Ryan Briscoe leaves the pits on the way to a disappointing finish (especially by Penske standards).

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Closeup of Kanaan in the pits.

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Eventual 2nd place finisher JR Hildebrand. Little did we know the drama that would later unfold with this car.

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Another photo of the Graham Rahal entry. Rahal was with the Ganassi '2nd team'. He ended up with a very respectable 3rd place finish making him the highest finishing Ganassi driver.

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Eventual winner Dan Wheldon pits.

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Tomas Scheckter's car certainly looked fast.

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Scheckter's sponsor, Redline Energy drink, did provide some support for the team...

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Ryan Hunter-Reay in his Andretti-Foyt car provided some pre-race week drama and controversy with his replacing the original driver of the #41 car when his own car was bumped from the field... by his teammate...


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Pole sitter Alex Tagliani

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Dan Wheldon pulls into the pits as the winner of the 2011 Indy 500.

Bball
05-30-2011, 06:44 PM
Congrats to Dan Wheldon. Great month and great ending to the month for him.

Even with the condensed May schedule Indiana and Mother Nature can still team up to give us the weirdest weather imaginable. You want cool, even cold conditions? Check... had that this month. Want rain? Yip. Wind? Yip. Clouds? Yip. Sun? Yip? .... And finally sweltering heat and himidity? Yip. The only thing missing was some snow.

Does anyone have a guess what has happened to Team Penske at the 500? Has the limited schedule (let alone the Indiana weather limiting even further) exposed a flaw in the Penske race and qualifying preparation? Penske has ran 3 cars in the past without spreading himself too thin but then maybe there were more $$$ for those multi-car teams. I have no idea. Gonna need to think about this one. Of course Penske has missed the boat before so maybe this is just a fluke year or two for Penske at Indy. But it's hard to say Penske is spreading himself too thin with 3 cars when Ganassi has managed to create 2 teams with 4 cars.

Ganassi needs to have someone from the Indiana Weights and Measurements Dept check his fuel pumps.... At least the Team Target ones...

Speaking of fuel mileage.... It's two years in a row now where fuel conservation has tried to play a factor in the race. It worked last year for Dario. ...Not so well for Mike Conway when he ran over the slowing Hunter-Reay. This year- Was Kimball driving extra slow to conserve fuel? Clearly, Dario and Dixon were fuel conscious. I'm glad the fast running Dan Wheldon won running full out instead of someone driving 10MPH off the pace and holding on for the win. So is this just a fluke thing or has fuel mileage, fuel cell regulations, and race distance conspired to bubble this strategy to the top? Or is it just a thing that has had some success so it's been monkey see-monkey do? I mean, if everyone is on some fuel conservation run then it evens out but that doesn't make for what makes racing exciting. Seeing it once in a great while with one team or car is one thing... and can be dramatic.... but seeing several cars playing that game kinda sucks IMHO. And it gets dangerous too (ask Mike Conway what happens when someone runs out of fuel in front of you while you're trying to run the real race pace).

I assume doing away with the fuel mixture knob was supposed to address this... but to me it seems worse than before now.

And the push to pass HP boost is a moot point when the cars are running on fumes and won't use the button anyway.

So does Indycar need to look at something (a change in fuel cell size perhaps?) to minimize this strategy being a regular issue? Is it more a factor of tires that can now outlast the fuel in the tank?

Double file restarts- Much ado about nothing. It did keep the field more packed for a lap or two. And for all the talk the drivers had about not wanting it why were they going 3 and 4 wide?? I would've been fine without them at Indy and road courses.

The start of the race. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the 3 abreast parade lap something making a reappearance?? I was thinking at some point the cars quit doing that and didn't line up 3 abreast until the backstretch of the last pace lap before going green. The start looked sloppier in person than it did on TV. I'm not really sure what happened. It looked like Tagliani started to go, hesitated, and then got caught napping while Dixon just took off. ...But I thought they were accelerating before where they were supposed to for the start to begin with. But maybe that changed in the same compromise about the go zone for the 2 wide restarts on Sat and the media never got and/or disseminated the message.

As I said in the other thread, Barnhart's comments about the ending and the rule interpretations used don't make a whole lot of sense. What happened made sense to the fans because basically, they saw Wheldon clearly pass before the yellow light came on. Then Hildebrand slide across 2nd. But then later comments contradict that. That's not really why Wheldon's pass counted and why he won if we listen to what was said by officials. OK. Someone needs to have an internal meeting and clear up exactly what the rules are in a similar scenario. What was ultimately said would mean even if Hildebrand had managed to slide across the line before Wheldon passed him Hildebrand still would not have been declared the winner. But to follow the logic in that (wounded car, caused yellow, not drivable, etc) then how do you award him 2nd place??? This stuff isn't brain surgery... Just find a clear rule and stick with it.

To say simply the yellow wouldn't matter because you're always allowed to pass a wrecked car leaves some scenarios open. For one thing, you don't race back to the line under yellow. You're supposed to slow under yellow and maintain your position. So while you clearly can pass a wrecked car, can you 'race' a sliding wreck? What if it's the last lap and a car is limping back under yellow with a broken suspension? If they can maintain "pace speed" can you still just go ahead and pass them because they are wrecked? Just close the loopholes and make sure everyone knows the rules. It doesn't matter what they are so much as it matters that they are clear to everyone.

The crowd was great yesterday. It's hard to say whether there were truly more seats filled than last year though. I wonder if scalpers snapped up tickets this year increasing sales for the track, then sold those tickets since they helped create a supply and demand issue plus the extra buzz for the 100th anniversary, but ultimately ended up with the same # of people in the seats. But I can't see the infield from my seats or T2 or T3. I can see the lower level seats behind pitlane at the early pits. I still say paint those seats differently and make them general admission seats. It's going to be a tough sell ever selling those seats again IMHO. That would allow some infield people to fill those... and more room possibly on the infield viewing mounds as some of those people take these seats. Heck, sell those seats CHEAPER than gen admission. Or else just do away with them entirely... make them vendor areas...

Bball
05-30-2011, 07:13 PM
On a related note to the audio crew at IMS.... Speaking of not brain surgery...

Gain structure is your friend. Know your signal flow and keep your gain structure in check. There may be a 100 things out of your control... but proper gain structure is not one of them. Does no one at the facility not really understand what is happening many times with the distortion and how to fix it???

DaveP63
05-31-2011, 08:47 AM
Does anyone have a guess what has happened to Team Penske at the 500?

A guess, and that's all it is, would be a combination of everyone else closing the gap as far as doing the little things that Penske has always done to get and edge at the Speedway and the fact that there are very few secrets left in a ten year old chassis. Some examples of little things used to be extreme attention to fit and finish of the body work and having logos painted on rather than decals because of the drag induced by the microscopic raised edges of the decals. True.


Ganassi needs to have someone from the Indiana Weights and Measurements Dept check his fuel pumps.... At least the Team Target ones.

This is a very interesting situation. There is obviously a problem with the metering or a problem with the pump they used to "pump out" the fuel cell in the garage. Very suprising that after qualifying they didn't replace EVERYTHING including the fuel cells.


Speaking of fuel mileage.... It's two years in a row now where fuel conservation has tried to play a factor in the race. It worked last year for Dario. ...Not so well for Mike Conway when he ran over the slowing Hunter-Reay. This year- Was Kimball driving extra slow to conserve fuel?

By all reports, Kimball was out and coasting.


I assume doing away with the fuel mixture knob was supposed to address this... but to me it seems worse than before now.

Here's the inherent problem. Fuel is weight. Engineers hate, Hate, HATE extra weight. The perfect engineering solution is to have the car run bone dry the second it crosses the finish line (less whatever is required by Indycar for post race inspection). It would not matter if you had a 200 gallon tank if the engineer decides you only need X ammount of fuel to finish the race, you as the fuel guy are only going to put in X ammount (delivered in seconds of flow, you have someone screaming in your ear to unplug after the calculated time). Now, here's the fun part...There are so many variables in the fuel system it is not nearly as exact as the guys on the war wagon would wish. The fuel pump may not pick it all up, the cell might not be pumped out all the way, there could be a sticky vent, you get the idea...You only have to watch them chew their fingernails once sweating out fuel to decide, whenever possible, to always put a little extra in. Obviously, during a full fuel run, that's not an issue. Were talking here about not needing a full bag. We didn't hot refuel in the pits due to our race length, and had to have 1 liter to pump out at the end, so after the first couple of times of sweating it out (including a support race win at the Indy F1 race) I always put an extra 1/2 to 3/4 gallon in...


And the push to pass HP boost is a moot point when the cars are running on fumes and won't use the button anyway.

Absolutely right.


So does Indycar need to look at something (a change in fuel cell size perhaps?) to minimize this strategy being a regular issue? Is it more a factor of tires that can now outlast the fuel in the tank?

See above. You can't make them fill 'er up...Tires are very good and will, in most cases, outlast a tank of fuel easily.


Double file restarts- Much ado about nothing. It did keep the field more packed for a lap or two. And for all the talk the drivers had about not wanting it why were they going 3 and 4 wide?? I would've been fine without them at Indy and road courses.

Agreed. Much ado about nothing. It does require the drivers to keep the dumba$$ gene under control, but the aggressive ones that know how to race are going to benifit on ovals. I don't think it gets you much on most road courses and definately not on street circuits.


The start of the race. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the 3 abreast parade lap something making a reappearance?? I was thinking at some point the cars quit doing that and didn't line up 3 abreast until the backstretch of the last pace lap before going green. The start looked sloppier in person than it did on TV. I'm not really sure what happened. It looked like Tagliani started to go, hesitated, and then got caught napping while Dixon just took off. ...But I thought they were accelerating before where they were supposed to for the start to begin with. But maybe that changed in the same compromise about the go zone for the 2 wide restarts on Sat and the media never got and/or disseminated the message.

You may thank The Great Brian B for the demise of that tradition, because despite the lip service given to it, he doesn't give a damn about it. When was the last time it was enforced? When was the last time they waved off a start because of the raggedy a$$ed lineup?


As I said in the other thread, Barnhart's comments about the ending and the rule interpretations used don't make a whole lot of sense. What happened made sense to the fans because basically, they saw Wheldon clearly pass before the yellow light came on. Then Hildebrand slide across 2nd. But then later comments contradict that. That's not really why Wheldon's pass counted and why he won if we listen to what was said by officials. OK. Someone needs to have an internal meeting and clear up exactly what the rules are in a similar scenario. What was ultimately said would mean even if Hildebrand had managed to slide across the line before Wheldon passed him Hildebrand still would not have been declared the winner. But to follow the logic in that (wounded car, caused yellow, not drivable, etc) then how do you award him 2nd place??? This stuff isn't brain surgery... Just find a clear rule and stick with it.

It has something to do with the car that caused the yellow, the moon cycle and the ammount of potato salad left in the pagoda after half distance...They didn't do themselves any favors trying to "explain" their decision...


To say simply the yellow wouldn't matter because you're always allowed to pass a wrecked car leaves some scenarios open. For one thing, you don't race back to the line under yellow. You're supposed to slow under yellow and maintain your position. So while you clearly can pass a wrecked car, can you 'race' a sliding wreck? What if it's the last lap and a car is limping back under yellow with a broken suspension? If they can maintain "pace speed" can you still just go ahead and pass them because they are wrecked? Just close the loopholes and make sure everyone knows the rules. It doesn't matter what they are so much as it matters that they are clear to everyone.

Not sure how the Indycar rule book reads on that one. The USAC book, if I remember right, has to do with whether or not the car causing the caution is still mobile. As in if a car spins and causes a caution, the cars behind cannot pass once the yellow is waved. Cars that pass before the caution, good to go. UNLESS THE CAR STALLS!!! The the car is stopped on track and everyone can pass and it falls to the tail of the running order. How they make the determination that a car with 2 wheels off is ambulatory or not, I don't know, but he was still moving and crossed the line under his own power. I suspect a magic 8 ball was involved...


The crowd was great yesterday. It's hard to say whether there were truly more seats filled than last year though. I wonder if scalpers snapped up tickets this year increasing sales for the track, then sold those tickets since they helped create a supply and demand issue plus the extra buzz for the 100th anniversary, but ultimately ended up with the same # of people in the seats. But I can't see the infield from my seats or T2 or T3. I can see the lower level seats behind pitlane at the early pits. I still say paint those seats differently and make them general admission seats. It's going to be a tough sell ever selling those seats again IMHO. That would allow some infield people to fill those... and more room possibly on the infield viewing mounds as some of those people take these seats. Heck, sell those seats CHEAPER than gen admission. Or else just do away with them entirely... make them vendor areas...

Lot of folks said it was the biggest since 95. RMiller said the scalpers said they were actually selling seats this year! I agree the lower seats are very bad and that's a great idea for using them or taking them out. We made the mistake of sitting there one year for the neck car race and could see about six inches of roof going by...

Trader Joe
05-31-2011, 09:04 AM
I think we just saw something that has become a proven fact, rarely does the guy with the best car win the race. Due to differences between race day and qualifying as well as fuel strategies, I thought the best cars all day were Rahal, Danica, and even Marco for a stretch. Not to say that Wheldon didn't have a good car, just that I thought he and Hildebrand both benefited more from fuel strategy than car performance.

DGPR
05-31-2011, 10:58 AM
Too bad Sheckter didn't win, that would have netted me $500 :(

Sandman21
05-31-2011, 11:17 AM
You may thank The Great Brian B for the demise of that tradition, because despite the lip service given to it, he doesn't give a damn about it. When was the last time it was enforced? When was the last time they waved off a start because of the raggedy a$$ed lineup?

Two years ago. Helio was on the pole and got such a large jump at the start they waved it off. But I do agree, if Barnhart really does care, he could start fining drivers.

Trader Joe
05-31-2011, 11:44 AM
Also, was Kimball the guy that was so slow in turn 4 on the last lap that Hildebrand had to pass? Because IMO, he owes Hildebrand an apology, if you're gonna go through a turn that slow and you have the leader coming up on you, you should be taking the high line and let the leader have the low line.

Sandman21
05-31-2011, 11:46 AM
Yes, Kimball was the car that JR tried to pass in 4.

Trader Joe
05-31-2011, 11:49 AM
Yes, Kimball was the car that JR tried to pass in 4.

Then he totally blew it IMO.

Sandman21
05-31-2011, 12:04 PM
Oh indeed did he blow it. The real irony is I could see JR getting Charlie's seat in a few years. Charlie is a Ganassi driver. 3 of Chip's 4 guys led the race at some point, guess who didn't. :D

Bball
05-31-2011, 12:14 PM
2 more thoughts that I intended to include and forgot about...

I'd be perfectly fine with bringing the apron back and allowing drivers to use it during the race. That adds an extra groove to the track (so would give slower cars the ability to pull down really low for one thing). ....That said....another thought... Maybe the black flag needs to fly when cars start slowing down 10-15-20MPH off the pace to conserve fuel?

Also... what was up with the wave around timing? I'm sure at least a couple of times the waved around cars didn't have time to catch the field before it went green. ...and if they did later it was only because they had to smash the gas to do it.

BRushWithDeath
05-31-2011, 05:09 PM
Anyone notice the Pacers logo on Hildebrand's car?

Maybe that was the cause of his bad luck.

DaveP63
05-31-2011, 06:52 PM
2 more thoughts that I intended to include and forgot about...

I'd be perfectly fine with bringing the apron back and allowing drivers to use it during the race. That adds an extra groove to the track (so would give slower cars the ability to pull down really low for one thing). ....That said....another thought... Maybe the black flag needs to fly when cars start slowing down 10-15-20MPH off the pace to conserve fuel?

Also... what was up with the wave around timing? I'm sure at least a couple of times the waved around cars didn't have time to catch the field before it went green. ...and if they did later it was only because they had to smash the gas to do it.

Apron? Hell yes. It would help eliminate the terror from the two wide restarts. But, and it's a big one, that's IMS's call. Not Indycar. That means you have to deal with TG who allowed it to be done away with in the first place...The answer to your other two questions are...wait for it...RACE CONTROL. That's right, TGBB makes the call on the "maintain a competitive speed" and who get's the wave around. He was probably too busy screaming at somebody to worry about some trivial item like who gets the wave around :hmm: I don't know if you can do it, but if you ever get the chance to listen in to the race control frequency, it can be quite enlightening...

Bball
06-01-2011, 01:29 AM
IIRC one of the reasons given for removal of the apron was the angle drivers would hit the wall if losing control on the apron. This would've been based on the era when the driver's legs and feet were much more forward than they are these days in the car. With the SAFER barrier and design of the cars these days it might actually be safer if the apron was returned giving cars a couple of lines thru the corners as well as some margin of error (particularly with double-file restarts).

I do have the ability to listen to race control but I usually avoid it. I'm not a fan of The Great Brian Barnhart. I have no idea how he's managed to stay on with IMS/Indycar thru all these changes. Even if I thought he was doing great, I'd agree that a change needs made just for PR and perception reasons. But since I think he's got a vision vastly counter to my own for Indycar racing and Indy.... as well as I question his credentials and ability... then color me confused how he has held onto his job thru all this time and even regime change.

Trader Joe
06-01-2011, 09:10 AM
Anyone notice the Pacers logo on Hildebrand's car?

Maybe that was the cause of his bad luck.

Pacers have been one of the sponsors on Panther racing's cars for years.

DaveP63
06-02-2011, 09:54 AM
IIRC one of the reasons given for removal of the apron was the angle drivers would hit the wall if losing control on the apron. This would've been based on the era when the driver's legs and feet were much more forward than they are these days in the car. With the SAFER barrier and design of the cars these days it might actually be safer if the apron was returned giving cars a couple of lines thru the corners as well as some margin of error (particularly with double-file restarts).

I do have the ability to listen to race control but I usually avoid it. I'm not a fan of The Great Brian Barnhart. I have no idea how he's managed to stay on with IMS/Indycar thru all these changes. Even if I thought he was doing great, I'd agree that a change needs made just for PR and perception reasons. But since I think he's got a vision vastly counter to my own for Indycar racing and Indy.... as well as I question his credentials and ability... then color me confused how he has held onto his job thru all this time and even regime change.

There's a groundswell rising up to get the apron back, for all the reasons you mentioned. (Check RMiller's mailbag on Speed). Hope it comes off. TGBB is and enigma and he must have compromising photos of a lot of higher ups in Indycar to survive as long as he has. If they would just *****can him and replace him with somebody that knows how to run a race, that would be great...As an aside, got an email from RM re: the two wide restarts and he said that Rick Mears basically called the whiners a slang term for a female reproductive organ.

Bball
06-02-2011, 01:23 PM
Could Brian Barnhart be 'safe' in his job over what he knows about the 2002 Indy 500 and how that all played out behind the scenes?? Is that the true 'compromising photos' that he holds?

DaveP63
06-02-2011, 05:43 PM
Could well be, God knows somebody screwed the pooch on that one...Still, it'd be nice if somebody looked him right in the eye and told him to FO. It might happen someday, we can always hope!

Sandman21
06-02-2011, 06:40 PM
As an aside, got an email from RM re: the two wide restarts and he said that Rick Mears basically called the whiners a slang term for a female reproductive organ.

Good for Rick. Those crybabies need to stuff it. If the Indy Lights guys can do double file restarts just fine at Indy, so can they!

DaveP63
06-02-2011, 08:03 PM
You can tell that there's not very many in the field that have short track open wheel experience...Instead of thinking "Oh My God, Were All Gonna DIE!!!" They should be thinking "Wohoo! Free positions! How many can I jump on the restart!"

Sollozzo
06-02-2011, 09:09 PM
Could Brian Barnhart be 'safe' in his job over what he knows about the 2002 Indy 500 and how that all played out behind the scenes?? Is that the true 'compromising photos' that he holds?





Would you mind rehashing that out for me? I was at that race, but it was 9 years ago and I was still fairly young. A lot of people still believe Tracy really won that race, correct?

PacerDude
06-02-2011, 09:40 PM
Would have liked a few more pics of the Redline Energy gals ................ :cool:

Bball
06-03-2011, 12:53 AM
Would you mind rehashing that out for me? I was at that race, but it was 9 years ago and I was still fairly young. A lot of people still believe Tracy really won that race, correct?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Rd4he2Rjs&feature=related

Pay no attention to the broadcast commentary as far as their idea of rules go. They are generally clueless. You can hear Paul Page saying that scoring reverts back to the previous lap. But that clearly wasn't the case. Ultimately, after the protest and appeal the IRL ruled that the decision would stand because the chief steward said that's the way it is and couldn't be challenged.... even after they allowed it to be challenged and let that carry thru to appeal.

Clearly, Tracy would in almost all certainty have passed Helio had the race stayed green. Tracy took the checkered flag as the leader too... adding to the confusion.

By that point in time the cars had yellow lights on the dash. I have no idea how well synchronized everything is... would the yellow in the car come on before the track yellows if only by the blink of an eye? Also, there was a major delay in going yellow between the crash and the track going yellow. Which just serves to complicate things.

Lastly, not mentioned but something to think about... Helio was in fuel saving mode. Perhaps his crew jumped the gun TELLING him yellow (or 'accident') when they saw the crash happen (assuming the track would immediately go yellow) so that he could slow and save every last drop of fuel.

Helio's public argument has always been he would never had slowed that much and allowed Tracy to pass him that easily except for that the track had went yellow.

And just like this year... the officials couldn't articulate a clear and concise explanation of the rules to explain how the decision played out as it did. In 2002 they were challenged on that and ultimately went with the "we win because that's the way we say it is and there's nothing you can do about it" argument.... In 2011 Barnes didn't challenge the ruling. That helps placate fans, especially since it was obvious Wheldon passed before the yellow came on and they assume that is what matters. But track officials have went down a different path to explain the outcome... and it's one that doesn't make a whole lot of sense based on history and the decision on the final standings of this event.

DaveP63
06-03-2011, 10:28 AM
Excellent recap. I would also add the PT dirty Champcar invader versus Helio the IRL golden boy, driving for stalwart Roger Penske angle into consideration also. You can watch the footage and make your own conclusion ;)

Sandman21
06-03-2011, 02:38 PM
Penske being a stalwart my keister! He'll go where the money is. That was his first full-time year in the IRL.

DaveP63
06-03-2011, 02:52 PM
Penske being a stalwart my keister! He'll go where the money is. That was his first full-time year in the IRL.

Ya...Your right. I thought about putting that in quotation marks, but I didn't. :o

Bball
06-03-2011, 06:40 PM
Penske being a stalwart my keister! He'll go where the money is. That was his first full-time year in the IRL.

Yes but if you were the IRL who would you rather see winning that year? A CART/Champcar regular coming over to cherry pick the Indy 500 and one that had had plenty of negative comments to say about the IRL or Team Penske, an Indy 500 regular for as long as many can remember (until the split) and a one that had just returned to the IRL full time.

If you were trying to create the media (and fan) perception that things were back to normal at Indy wouldn't a Penske win be your idea of the better headline?

And could you, as the IRL afford to pizz off Penske right then?

Then compare drivers- The affable Helio vs the cantankerous Tracy...

There were plenty of reasons to weight the scales in Penske's direction in 2002...

Bball
06-04-2011, 01:11 PM
If it seemed JR Hildebrand came upon fellow rookie Charlie Kimball quickly on the final lap of last weekend's Indianapolis 500, he did.

Track segment times released by the Izod IndyCar Series show that Hildebrand, who crashed trying to pass the lapped car, was traveling about 94 mph faster than Kimball in the north short chute of Indianapolis Motor Speedway and still 83 mph faster in turn four.

In giving Kimball room, Hildebrand's right-side tires got into the slippery higher groove, which pushed him into the wall. Dan Wheldon passed him 900 feet from the finish to win.

Documents show that Kimball, who was low on fuel and perhaps out altogether, was going only 103.634 mph in the timing sector from the short chute to turn four. Hildebrand's speed was 186.865 mph, and that included the area at which the accident started.

In the previous sector measured from turn three to the short chute, Hildebrand was clocked at 210.564 mph to Kimball's 116.440 mph.

Kimball had been slowing for some time. His speed on lap 198 (of 200) was 192.934 mph, and he was at 166.930 mph on lap 199.

Kimball's remarkably slow speed on the final lap raises questions about why he was on the track and not in the deceleration lane. Nearly the same thing happened in last year's race when Mike Conway crashed in turn three after running over the left rear tire of Ryan Hunter-Reay, who was running out of fuel.

Chief steward Brian Barnhart was not available for comment Friday.

There also have been questions regarding Hildebrand holding onto the lead after his crash.

Based on television replays, it took about eight seconds for officials to turn on the caution light.

Hildebrand, who kept pushing the gas pedal after the wall impact, needed 11.1 seconds to travel from the measuring point in turn four to the finish line. Wheldon got there in 7.3 seconds, a difference of 3.8 seconds.

The speed numbers show Wheldon reacted to the crash by slowing. He was 11.4 mph slower from the middle of the fourth turn to the finish line than he had been on the previous lap.
Indy Star

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110604/SPORTS0107/106040327/Pit-Pass-Fast-Hildebrand-slow-Kimball-proved-bad-combo

Bball
06-04-2011, 01:19 PM
You should get one warning to pick up the pace at best and then the black flag should fly.

Honestly, had that been the rule Wheldon would likely be a 3 time winner because it's pretty questionable if Dario could've made it to the finish last year. He was slowing considerably when Conway's wreck allowed him to finish under yellow. And IIRC there was some question about his pace speed even being slow.

DaveP63
06-04-2011, 03:16 PM
Yep and he should have had enough common sense to get the hell out of the way. 103MPH...He was dry and coasting.

Bball
06-04-2011, 06:20 PM
Did Kimball stall on the track or did he get back to his pit stall?

DaveP63
06-04-2011, 08:17 PM
IDK. I never paid attention. I don't recall seeing him peel off, so he must have coasted across the line.

Sandman21
06-05-2011, 08:57 PM
Im pretty sure hes one of the cars on the straightaway when Wheldon takes the checkered.

Bball
06-05-2011, 11:55 PM
If anyone missed Windtunnel tonight here is some new info... The track was yellow when Wheldon passed Hildebrand.

The flagman has control of the track lights due to the '97 500 when the flagman waved the green flag but the track lights stayed yellow on a restart on the 199th lap.

So on that last lap this year he was putting away the white flag, grabbing the dual checkers, and then race control called for a yellow. So that slowed the response down in the flagstand. Despain pointed out an official at the end of pitlane signaling yellow, and the pitlane going yellow, even though the outside track lights were still green. And unlike 2002, one video shot shows all of this and the position of Wheldon, Hildebrand, etc.. Wheldon had not passed Hildebrand at the point race control called for yellow.

Barnhart's call was a disabled car has no protection against being passed. He compared it to Tagliani tagging the wall earlier in the race and cars passing him. The track going yellow, and when, was irrelevant in this circumstance is what Barnhart ruled.

So that's the official position of Indycar/IMS.

Trader Joe
06-06-2011, 12:05 AM
I'm sorry, Kimball's story abotu being a diabetic is great and all, but people are being way too nice to him. He ****ed up. He cost Hildebrand the 500. 100 MPH? I could take my street legal S4 out there and do that through turn 4. Sorry, but that's just sad. I feel terrible for Hildebrand, even if Wheldon had a good story too.

DaveP63
06-06-2011, 08:16 AM
Im pretty sure hes one of the cars on the straightaway when Wheldon takes the checkered.

It was indeed. I watched it last night on Speed.


If anyone missed Windtunnel tonight here is some new info... The track was yellow when Wheldon passed Hildebrand.

The flagman has control of the track lights due to the '97 500 when the flagman waved the green flag but the track lights stayed yellow on a restart on the 199th lap.

So on that last lap this year he was putting away the white flag, grabbing the dual checkers, and then race control called for a yellow. So that slowed the response down in the flagstand. Despain pointed out an official at the end of pitlane signaling yellow, and the pitlane going yellow, even though the outside track lights were still green. And unlike 2002, one video shot shows all of this and the position of Wheldon, Hildebrand, etc.. Wheldon had not passed Hildebrand at the point race control called for yellow.

Barnhart's call was a disabled car has no protection against being passed. He compared it to Tagliani tagging the wall earlier in the race and cars passing him. The track going yellow, and when, was irrelevant in this circumstance is what Barnhart ruled.

So that's the official position of Indycar/IMS.

I can certainly agree with, and understand, his position. I just wish that this, the third (at least) version would have been the first version put out.


I'm sorry, Kimball's story abotu being a diabetic is great and all, but people are being way too nice to him. He ****ed up. He cost Hildebrand the 500. 100 MPH? I could take my street legal S4 out there and do that through turn 4. Sorry, but that's just sad. I feel terrible for Hildebrand, even if Wheldon had a good story too.

Agreed.

Bball
06-06-2011, 11:11 AM
I didn't know the flagman controlled the track lights. It seems like this info would've become common knowledge in 2002. That would seemingly taken a little steam away from Barry Green's argument that Tracy passed Helio before the track was yellow because of the video showing the track light not yellow until after the pass.

...Assuming the in-car yellow lights are controlled from a different source.

And in this day and age couldn't this all be synched better for fans, competitors, safety, and fairness?

DaveP63
06-06-2011, 01:05 PM
Yes he does. It's standard at every track I know of, now. Check out any flagstand and there's a big metal box. That's it. Either a set of big push buttons or toggle switches. There used to be a button up in the tower and I believe that is now used to send the signal to the in cars. It's quite a complex series of events made more difficult based on the size of the track. Indy has several posts, like you saw illustrated last night, that are connected to race control by radio so they can report incidents (common frequency) that are not immediately visable to RC or the flagstand. When and how the caution actually comes out is a bit of a black art...The flagman has the button and also has the authority to throw the caution without RC directing it. RC can dictate a full course based on the spotter reports or flagman. Then they get on the common frequency and notify the teams. I've never knew the pit official along the front straight could (seemingly) trigger the caution.

It gets a little more complicated on road/street courses with local yellows and the like. There, the corner workers have the ability to call a local yellow and notify RC and clear it off when completed.

DaveP63
06-07-2011, 02:12 PM
And the heads begin to roll...

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-tagliani-ssm-suffer-engineering-setback/

Bball
06-07-2011, 09:39 PM
Interesting turn of events. Can't say I'm surprised other than maybe a little that he'd head back to Andretti as opposed to Penske or Ganassi. But Andretti would be the more desperate team in need of a handle right now. But I could see some heads rolling at Penske and Ganassi before it's all said and done.

DaveP63
06-07-2011, 09:52 PM
I've got some feelers out and haven't heard anything on PMS and TCG yet...I just heard this early this AM because it affects somebody I know who's now demoted to assistant engineer on Conway's car...You know, the one that won Long Beach and the one that's highest in the points for AAS...

Bball
06-10-2011, 01:57 AM
Delta Wing goes racing...
http://www.indystar.com/article/20110609/SPORTS/110609019/DeltaWing-race-car-entered-24-Hours-LeMans

DaveP63
06-10-2011, 07:57 AM
If anybody can make it work, it's Dan...But I still don't see how in the hell it will ever turn.

Bball
06-10-2011, 12:26 PM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20110610/SPORTS0107/106100337/Barnhart-Hildebrand-had-no-extra-fuel-during-500

Barnhart: No cheating
Hildebrand had no extra fuel, 500 chief steward says


FORT WORTH, Texas -- The fuel tank and caution light controversies dogging the end of last month's Indianapolis 500 are without merit, the race's chief steward said Thursday.

Brian Barnhart said he confirmed with Honda, the Izod IndyCar Series' sole engine supplier, that runner-up finisher JR Hildebrand did not use more than the allowable 22 gallons of fuel in the final laps.

The amount of fuel in his Panther Racing machine came under fire this week in a story published by Canada's largest newspaper, the Globe and Mail. The newspaper, which cited unidentified sources, said other teams believe Panther fiddled with the fuel capacity.

Globe and Mail officials later withdrew the story from its website.

This much is known: Hildebrand made his final pit stop on lap 164, the same lap as two-time race winner Dario Franchitti, who was forced to stop for more fuel.

"JR did not use more than 22 gallons to that point," said Barnhart, who declined to reveal the amount used by the No. 4 car. "It's darn close, but he only had to go a few hundred yards more."

Hildebrand crashed in the fourth turn trying to pass the slow lapped car of fellow rookie Charlie Kimball. Hildebrand's crash gave Dan Wheldon time to pass for the lead -- and Wheldon's second win at Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

IndyCar inspected all fuel cells before the race and had them sealed at several points. Hildebrand's car was not inspected after the race because it was damaged.

Panther officials denied they fiddled with the fuel. A statement released by the team called it "a non-issue."

As for when the caution lights came on after the impact, Barnhart said he called for them immediately, and the lights in the cars came on about the time Hildebrand bounced off the wall a second time.

Television replays don't show that scenario, but flashing lights on the interior pit wall were on when Wheldon passed Hildebrand.

That doesn't matter, Barnhart said, even if the rulebook isn't specific.

Barnhart said Wheldon, along with every other driver in the race, had the right to pass Hildebrand under caution.

"That's just common sense that a wounded car can be passed," Barnhart said. "Every car that crashed in this race and all other races has been passed, and there was no penalty for passing it.

"It is an accepted and understood practice to continue on, not just in our series but every form of racing at every level."

Barnhart used the example of Alex Tagliani's mid-race crash in the same location of turn four. Tagliani's car continued around the track under caution and was repeatedly passed.

"Not letting them pass means you threw the red flag," Barnhart said.

The confusion over the lights stemmed from the multiple systems used. The lights on the pit wall are tied to the dash lights, which are activated by radio transmission. The lights on the outside wall are hard wired and initiated by a switch in the flag stand.

The systems are different and not able to be synched, Barnhart said.

"Drivers know to (obey) the first lights they see," he said. "That's why we have multiple systems in place."

Bball
06-10-2011, 04:23 PM
If anybody can make it work, it's Dan...But I still don't see how in the hell it will ever turn.

Let's assume the thing can turn... I wonder about the weight distribution. If it can turn, that means it can get loose. And if it gets loose would that thing spin like a top or what?

Bball
06-10-2011, 04:27 PM
BTW.... Since we've been told Dallara was the only company that was all for chassis competition, then why didn't the Delta Wing get accepted too (or provisionally accepted provided it could meet certain safety and performance standards)? Wasn't the Delta Wing proposal just to be an open chassis design that anyone could build?

DaveP63
06-10-2011, 08:04 PM
Let's assume the thing can turn... I wonder about the weight distribution. If it can turn, that means it can get loose. And if it gets loose would that thing spin like a top or what?

Yes and yes. With those little narrow track front tires being grossly overpowered by the big rears I'm not sure how you get it to stop short of turning over ;)


BTW.... Since we've been told Dallara was the only company that was all for chassis competition, then why didn't the Delta Wing get accepted too (or provisionally accepted provided it could meet certain safety and performance standards)? Wasn't the Delta Wing proposal just to be an open chassis design that anyone could build?

Interesting question. It was too "radical" for most of the money men. A lot of folks looked at it and thought the same thing we did. There were a lot of doubters about the price and long term viability. Personally, I feel the fat azz on the new Dallara is a nod to the delta...Don't even get me started on them getting back in bed with those Italian *******os after they've been screwing everybody like blind cats for the last 10 years...

Looking forward to the "Texas Twins"!

Sandman21
06-11-2011, 07:14 PM
The Twin 275s should be fun to watch tonight. And wow did Helio struggle during quals yesterday. I think he is officially in a funk.


Im really liking how they put this together. This twin run at Texas would go well with a NBC deal with Indycar...

Although I do have a feeling that somehow a Ganassi car will get the pole draw.... :D

And Dario is crying about the draw being stupid. Too bad!

AND HE'S STILL CRYING ABOUT IT AFTER THE RACE! STFU DARIO AND LIVE WITH IT!

Bball
06-12-2011, 04:50 AM
The draw is pretty stupid when you consider the importance that is put on the championship. If the race didn't pay points that would help... but then you take away some importance of the race. I'm not sure how much that would really affect competitors once the green flag drops, but fans might get the perception the race doesn't really matter... and that might create a vicious cycle with media, crew, drivers, etc.... So probably best not to go there. But it depends on if you have a way to make sure the 2nd race at least has the illusion of importance to the fans and teams.

Inverting the qualifying lineup makes sense on first blush except if you know you don't really have a shot at the pole then you could tank your qualifying attempt and the biggest tanker would be on the pole for the 2nd race. ...and the other tankers would be around you. You for sure don't want that.

I'd say for the 2nd race just base it off of points (you could include the first race in the points so that the final lineup wouldn't be known until after the first race) and then invert the lineup with the lowest points on the pole and the leaders in the back (if that is what the series is looking for to create more excitement). You might need a rule to tackle what to do about one-offs and limited participation/points teams... or not.... I'm not sure you want a one-off team coming to the Twins so they could sit on the pole of the 2nd race.

I'd say just use the finishing lineup of the first race but if you invert the field you still leave the door wide open to someone tanking majorly in the 1st race to sit on the pole for the 2nd race. Would someone do that? ... You'd have that whole first race to think about car setup. Could even make some extra pitstops to try some things... Save all your 'push to pass' for the 2nd race... and then start that 2nd race in clean air with low downforce and a hopefully dialed in car and ALL of your push to passes left (AKA "overtakes"). Yeah... I'd say someone would do that... Probably not your championship contenders but your 2nd and 3rd tier teams would really have nothing to lose and a lot to gain by playing the system and using it trying for a win on primetime TV.

You'd also need to make sure that the first guy to crash out in the 1st race doesn't get rewarded with the pole in the 2nd race. At least I'd certainly not want to see that happen.

Sandman21
06-12-2011, 12:25 PM
The thing is, if Dario had whined about it in the second pre-race interview and then dropped it and raced, I wouldn't have been so venomous, but the way he carried it on AFTER the race was disgusting and has probably caused him to lose some respect in my book. You know that if the situation had been reversed and Will had drawn 28 and Dario drawn 3, he wouldn't be complaining.

And to be honest, I think Penske would have said something about it, but then went out there and raced, and wouldn't have been carrying on after the post-race interview. And I DESPISE Team Penske. Poor Dario was just upset that he actually had to drive around some slower traffic for once. :D

DaveP63
06-12-2011, 05:48 PM
Dario STFU and race. I used to have a lot of respect for him. Whining about this crap and whining about the two wides, I'm about ready to see this generation to the door and let's get some new blood in here. This isn't some gimmick that somebody pulled out of their ***. There is historical precedent for twins and THEY USED TO INVERT THE FIELD for the second one. Can you imagine the mooing and whining???

Seriously, you are either fast, or you aren't. If you are, then it doesn't matter where you start. If you aren't, it matters even less. You are going to the back.

Sandman21
06-12-2011, 05:52 PM
If Dario had whined the first interview and then dropped it, I would have mocked him some and that would have been the end of it to me. After he whined in the post race interview (when he finished in the Top 10), I lost all respect I had for him. It was kind of ironic that he was driving a car with a sponsorship for a diaper company, because he was acting like a spoiled brat! I mean, cmon, Marco drove a great second race too, and he had to start from the back. You didn't see him whining!

Isn't Dario one of the chief whiners over the Double-file restarts too?

Bball
06-12-2011, 07:19 PM
FYI the races were 171 miles ea...

1.5mi x 114 laps = 171 miles.

They were 275 kilometers.

I wonder why they didn't just call them Twin 175's (miles) and run 117 laps each?

Sandman21
06-12-2011, 07:47 PM
I wonder why they didn't just call them Twin 175's (miles) and run 117 laps each?
Because Dario and Chip would whine about that too!:p

Bball
06-13-2011, 02:40 AM
FORT WORTH, Texas -- Seventh-place finishers in Izod IndyCar Series races generally don't come to the winner's media interview, but Saturday night's did at Texas Motor Speedway.

Dario Franchitti was furious, and while it wasn't clear if he came to the news conference voluntarily or was asked to, he certainly wanted to be seen and heard.

The three-time series champion vehemently disagreed with the way the starting order was determined for the second of two races. After the first, which Franchitti won, all 30 drivers turned around tires in a made-for-TV production.

Series points leader Will Power turned the tire bearing No. 3. Franchitti got what was left: No. 28.

That meant Franchitti had to labor through a mixed-up, congested field while Power sailed along near the front. Power took the lead on lap 40 and won the race, his first on an oval track, in relatively easy fashion. Franchitti scrambled to salvage seventh.

Power, who finished third in the first race, outscored Franchitti by 14 points in the races, giving Power a 21-point lead heading to next weekend's race in Milwaukee.

Franchitti and Power battled to the finish last season, with Franchitti winning the series title by just five points. This fight figures to be just as competitive. The thought had Franchitti steaming as each of Saturday's races paid an equal number of points.

"Through no fault of myself or (my) team, we had a massive handicap," he said. "(We had) great pit stops; I drove as hard as I could all night. We made up 21 places and then, through no fault of our own, lost a load of championship points."

He wasn't finished.

"There's enough variables out there. We don't need to be throwing dice to be deciding grid positions. That made me mad.

"I'm sitting there, OK, I won the first race, but at the same point my emotion right now has been pissed off about the hand we were dealt."

Power understood and acknowledged being as happy with the pre-race turn of the tires as he was in reaching victory lane.

"I knew (he) was screwed," Power said of Franchitti. "I thought coming into this race, you don't control your own destiny, basically.

"It's just a draw. It was going to be very unfair for someone. It happened to be Dario. In a tightly fought championship, you just can't have that."

Franchitti, who dropped at least one expletive in radio and TV interviews, insisted the finishers of the first race should have been inverted for the second -- with the winner starting last -- but that system wouldn't have created the drama this one had.

Several drivers used the tire-turning process to entertain the announced crowd of 73,000. Brazilian boyhood friends Tony Kanaan and Helio Castroneves hammed it up, with Kanaan's reaction to turning No. 1 a memorable moment.

IndyCar remains a distant cousin to NASCAR with low TV ratings, a relatively small fan base and a general lack of energy outside its own paddock. An event like Saturday's was a chance to catch the eyes of others.

The Firestone Twin 275s, the first doubleheader for open-wheel racing in 30 years, had an easy-to-follow format with competitive cars. The Texas track again delivered a thrilling product.

There were sparks from the cars as well as the drivers. The car that won the Indianapolis 500 was involved in the night's only crash, a two-car mess in turn four in the first race. Dan Wheldon, the 500 winner, was the TV analyst watching his car, driven by rookie Wade Cunningham, sustain significant damage.

But this race won't be remembered for racing or the crash or the uniqueness of two races in one night. It will be the random draw and the criticism of it.

"At the end of the day it's a sport," Franchitti said of IndyCar racing. "It's entertainment, too. They have to balance (that)."

Indystar- Curt Cavin
http://www.indystar.com/article/20110613/SPORTS0107/106130326/Franchitti-furious-over-luck-draw

DaveP63
06-13-2011, 07:33 AM
If Dario had whined the first interview and then dropped it, I would have mocked him some and that would have been the end of it to me. After he whined in the post race interview (when he finished in the Top 10), I lost all respect I had for him. It was kind of ironic that he was driving a car with a sponsorship for a diaper company, because he was acting like a spoiled brat! I mean, cmon, Marco drove a great second race too, and he had to start from the back. You didn't see him whining!

Isn't Dario one of the chief whiners over the Double-file restarts too?

Yep. One of the head "We're all gonna die" whiners. If you qualify ******, does that mean that you get to start in the front anyway because your racing for a championship? Just wondering...If you feel that oppressed, then give it a miss next year.

Don't know why they don't call 'em 175s. Makes too much sense I guess. If these guys don't want to do it, I'm sure there's a lot of USAC guys that would take the phone call...

grace
06-13-2011, 08:51 AM
Through no fault of myself or (my) team, we had a massive handicap," he said. "(We had) great pit stops; I drove as hard as I could all night. We made up 21 places and then, through no fault of our own, lost a load of championship points.

I've got news for you Dario. Yes it's all a conspiracy against you and your team. Anyone who runs out of fuel while qualify for the Indy 500 gets screwed in the next race.:kicknuts: It's one of the unwritten rules. Just ask Robin Miller.

Sandman21
06-13-2011, 02:41 PM
Cavin pointed out in his blog today that Will Power had an argument to make in the first race about how Dixon was blocking him on the track, but you didn't see Will complaining!

DaveP63
06-13-2011, 09:20 PM
Perhaps Will doesn't expect anyone to give him something...Next up, the Milwaukee Mile. Anyone taking bets on "the lapped traffic is just won't get out of the way"?

Sandman21
06-19-2011, 05:59 PM
Anyone else catch that block on the last restart that Rahal threw on Power to give Dario the win?

Not to mention Dario nearly hitting one of the Penske pitcrew members!

Give me a break, the man wins the freaking race and all Francrybaby can do in Victory Lane is WHINE about Helio blocking when he used the same tactic TODAY to win!


Here's a contrast in style, when Dario beats Power, Will is very professional and congratulates Dario on a good race in his post-race interview.
When Will beats Dario, all we get from Francrybaby is "WAHHHHHHHH ITS NOT FAIR WAHHHHHHH!"

Bball
06-19-2011, 07:05 PM
"Francrybaby"... That's pretty good! Nicely played.

I didn't notice Helio doing anything overt with blocking Franchitti today. But then I was a bit distracted today so I could've missed it.

But even so, I don't think anything was blatant enough that Franchitti needed to make a big deal about it on natl TV in the winner's circle.

When it comes across as whining it sucks... If it comes across as drama then it's probably good for the sport though.

Sandman21
06-19-2011, 07:49 PM
And I'm going to keep calling him Francrybaby until he grows up and cuts the whining. :D He had no room to be complaining about Helio blocking (which from what I watched, wasn't out of control) after how Dixon blocked for him last week in the first Texas run and then how Graham Rahal dipped down on Power on the last restart to cut off his run and nearly caused a wreck in the process.

The amazing thing is he's making me actually root FOR Team Penske! I want to see Will win the series championship just so we can see Francrybaby whine at the end of the season.

DaveP63
06-19-2011, 09:04 PM
Nah...He don't have **** to say to anybody. I think all that being around Ganassi is rubbing off. I used to be a big fan because he was one of the foreign drivers that "got it". Not anymore. Feel bad about TK, though. Just pushing too hard.

Sandman21
06-24-2011, 07:19 PM
Way to go for Takuma Sato to take the pole for Iowa! And his teammate TK starts in row 2!

Meanwhile Francrybaby is probably whining about having to start on the third row. :D

"WAH! The KV Racing cars aren't supposed to have faster cars than I do! And my blockers-er-Teammates aren't supposed to be starting from the back!" :D

DaveP63
06-25-2011, 08:01 PM
I'd say you are right on the money there...

Sandman21
06-25-2011, 08:20 PM
Helio just burned Francrybaby pretty good in the prerace interview...

"When the kids start crying, you just gotta it go."

And I don't like Helio either, but that was a good one!

The Wheldon/Miller pit walk is a REALLY good segment!

WHAT A FUN RACE TO WATCH!

Bball
07-12-2011, 02:50 AM
I'm not really sure what to say about the 'penalty' on Dario that 'wasn't'.... On one hand I just want to say "Be consistent, take your time, make the call and stick with it" ....OTOH... What's with all the micromanaging of the races anyway? The series has pizzed around with these 20 year old chassis (ok 7-8 year old chassis) (and engines) that everybody is using... so I guess they've equalized the sport to the point where they think they have to micromanage the racing ...because nobody has the HP to make a serious racing move on the track.

DaveP63
07-12-2011, 08:01 AM
He crashed him. Avoidable contact. No question about it. If you think the hole is there and it shuts down. It's your responsiblity to get your nose out of there. Then the whole deal dissing Graham. I'm really starting to hate him...

Bball
07-12-2011, 12:34 PM
Dario has sure found a way to go from hero to villain in a few short years. It seems some success has went to his head....

Dario = whine whine whine... anyplace... anytime...

DaveP63
07-12-2011, 02:14 PM
I'm not really sure what to say about the 'penalty' on Dario that 'wasn't'.... On one hand I just want to say "Be consistent, take your time, make the call and stick with it" ....OTOH... What's with all the micromanaging of the races anyway? The series has pizzed around with these 20 year old chassis (ok 7-8 year old chassis) (and engines) that everybody is using... so I guess they've equalized the sport to the point where they think they have to micromanage the racing ...because nobody has the HP to make a serious racing move on the track.

That's a lot of it, right there. When you have "spec" cars (and I use that term loosely. Some are more "spec" than others...Just as some Hondas are more "spec" than others...) and more or less equal drivers, you will run into a lot of micromanagement. It has killed more than a few junior series over the years. Can it kill Indycar? I don't know, but it doesn't help anything. I am also seriously wondering if part of the Dario problem isn't the Chipster...

graphic-er
07-12-2011, 03:37 PM
I can't believe Rahal let himself get punked on the track by both Target cars and then later got punked by Dario after the race. Man up kid.

He let Dixon push him wide on that pass at the end of race and which allowed Hunter-Ray to stick his nose underneath. No reason for Dixon to do that and no reason for Rahal to let it happen. Podium finish to 13th place. Terrible.

Sandman21
07-12-2011, 06:52 PM
I've loving this. Now only do we have a hero (Power) vs villain (Francrybaby) dynamic building in the title chase, we've got drivers going after each other and showing some character. Will and Michael Andretti were SPOT-ON in their comments during the race on Sunday, and then Will took it out onto Twitter.

As for Graham, I have a feeling that he's going to let his driving do his talking. Francrybaby doesn't win at Milwaukee if not for Graham cutting down on Will on the last restart. If the Target boys are going to treat him as the red-headed stepchild, then Graham should focus on kicking their rears on the track!

And yes, I think part of Francrybaby's problem is being around the Chipster. Someone needs to remind him how he couldn't cut it in NASCAR.....

DaveP63
07-12-2011, 08:39 PM
Do not be surprised if the next go around young Graham hasn't learned his lesson and doesn't give them a damn thing. I don't think he'll go out of his way to crash them, but I don't think he'll lift a finger to help either.

What does Robin say? "Hate is good".

Sandman21
07-12-2011, 08:53 PM
If I'm Graham, I counting the days until my Ganassi deal ends and he can talk to Penske. As much as I despise the Captain, Graham would be a huge asset to his stable, especially as Briscoe has been inconsistent and Helio.... well Helio is slumping pretty bad this year. He gets an American driver in his stable and I could see the sponsors following.

If he REALLY want to put the screws to Francrybaby and Dixie (who was even rougher on Graham in the part of the presser that Indycar has taken offline), how better than to kick them and Ganassi in the guts and go over to the Captain's stable next year?

And absolutely, hate is good for racing. I hate to admit it, but look at the end of the 79 Daytona 500 and what it ultimately did for NASCAR. I'm surprised that they didn't have the drivers doing the media rounds yesterday. Heck, I'd have kept the presser with Dixie calling Graham a D-Head up on the site! Imagine if Will had met Francrybaby in Victory Lane!

DaveP63
07-13-2011, 07:20 AM
Indycar is too classy to allow that...LOL. Definately a missed opportunity to keep the buzz going. I'd love to see Graham somewhere else competative just to stick it to Chip, don't be suprised if it is Penske...

Sandman21
07-13-2011, 01:56 PM
Especially with Penske going to GM next year and Chip staying with Honda... Perfect opportunity for Penske. :D

btw, JR's professionalism after Indy is rewarded: http://blog.indianapolismotorspeedway.com/2011/07/13/a-surprise-well-earned/

graphic-er
07-18-2011, 11:20 PM
SO here is a question for all you gear heads, since the Brickyard race the moto GP races look like they will be questionable in the near future, what do you think about IMS adding the road course to the IRL schedule. Should they?

I'd be all for it. I've honestly been to the 500 so many times as a kid, I need something new. They already got the track, might as well use it.

Also it seems like people in Indy only really pay attention to the 500, and really don't give a damn about the IRL series in general. Right now they hold the last race in Las Vegas. If they finished the season out in Indy on the road course and crowned the series champion at Indianapolis, I think that would add alot of prestige to the sport. Also there is the marketing aspect of seeing if a driver could win Both races in one season.

Bball
07-19-2011, 12:14 AM
Well... if you want my opinion they should get some heavy equipment in there and rip that whole road course section out. Remove any temptation to use it for anything.

I'd be tempted to say get Nascar outta there as well...

Make it so drivers aspiring to run Indy have only ONE way to do it - In an Indycar on the oval.

I wasn't vehemently against Nascar coming to Indy back when Nascar was on its ascension and Indycar seemed to be in a good place. But Nascar popularity is dwindling (not just at IMS but nationwide), and Indycar doesn't need the competition and doesn't need to give Nascar another large stage.

Also, don't take the Nationwide race from ORP.

Then put innovation back into Indycar... loosen the rules at the 500 by itself...

Bring back the apron...

Get the TV coverage away from ABC.

Fire Brian Barnhart... yesterday...

...Oh and bring back the snakepit....

DaveP63
07-19-2011, 07:52 AM
The road course is an interesting problem. Do I see them taking it out? No. Never. We'll have to see how the Grand Am (Nationwide series cars with a coupe body) race goes...What would I like to see on it? ALMS. That's a whole different breed of cat than the NASCAR Rolex Grand Am series.

I think they are slowly trying to increase innovation in ICS, but they are taking it slow due to the fragile nature of the open wheel economy. They can't afford a spending war right now.

Bring back the apron +1000. It is under discussion and wouldn't be too hard to do over the "off season".

I have a feeling that we're going to see it on NBC when the Versus contract is up, or nearly up. Think of it as a reward, a crappy one, for their loyalty in getting ICS back on TV...BTW, I don't get Versus on my satellite package, either.

I have a gut feeling TGBB is gone after the season, so he can "spend more time with his family". There are ample replacements in place.

Snakepit...+10K

Sandman21
07-23-2011, 07:55 PM
Uh-oh, do we have a rising star in Takuma? He takes his second pole of the season for KV Racing!

Of course, Will have to watch his 6 tomorrow with "Princess" Francrybaby starting right behind him.....

DaveP63
07-23-2011, 08:52 PM
No need. Takuma, while very fast, is also quite the crasher. Unless, of course, he shunts Frankcrybaby...

Sandman21
07-23-2011, 10:00 PM
Actually I was referring to Power.... :D

And I'm officially a fan of the Grid run/walk/whatever:

Miller to Seabass: "Your on live TV, so don't be using any of those nasty French words."
TK : "But you can use wanker!"

Tags is definitely still the wanker of the week this race. :D

DaveP63
07-24-2011, 06:31 PM
Wanker of the week LOL, We should start a WotW topic!

graphic-er
07-26-2011, 03:32 PM
Takuma Sato should be pissed, getting spun out like that. Though I kinda dont' understand how he was so easily passed in the beginning losing 2 spots on one corner, one would have thought that he should of had the fastest car on the track.

DaveP63
07-27-2011, 04:45 PM
You can't win it on the first lap, but you can sure lose it. He should be pissed. That was crap.

graphic-er
07-31-2011, 09:40 PM
I know its a bit off topic, but what in the hell is with these Nascar drivers throwing stuff out their car? Today at the BrickYard i seen someone throw a water bottle out the side of their car going over 100 miles an hour. Dont' they have a passenger side floor board? It seems like they just wanted a caution!?

DaveP63
08-01-2011, 07:37 AM
I know its a bit off topic, but what in the hell is with these Nascar drivers throwing stuff out their car? Today at the BrickYard i seen someone throw a water bottle out the side of their car going over 100 miles an hour. Dont' they have a passenger side floor board? It seems like they just wanted a caution!?

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. That is truely the source of some of the mystery "debris" cautions that occur in Nascar. They actually caught Robbie Gordon doing it on tape several years ago.

DaveP63
08-05-2011, 08:31 AM
The "new car" is going to be tested next week at Mid Ohio. Closed to the public, but expect some pics to show up.

DaveP63
08-09-2011, 07:33 AM
And here they are...

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-2012-car-breaks-cover-at-mid-ohio/

:dance:

Sandman21
08-09-2011, 04:38 PM
I like it!

Bball
08-10-2011, 12:50 PM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20110810/SPORTS0107/108100374/IndyCar-extends-pact-ABC-ESPN


The Indianapolis 500 and a limited number Izod IndyCar Series races will remain on ABC and ESPN as part of a six-year contract extension announced today.

The extension carries the partnership through the 2018 season.

ABC aired its first 500 in 1965.

ABC will remain the exclusive network broadcasting outlet with four additional IndyCar races airing on the network. Those races have not been determined.

ESPN International will retain international distribution rights, but in a key point for international viewers, ESPN International does not have to keep the races within its outlets.

This story will be updated.

Bah...

Bball
08-10-2011, 01:08 PM
So I gather Versus (AKA NBC Sports Channel) will still (until their contract runs out) have whatever races ABC/ESPN doesn't want... BUT since ABC/ESPN are the exclusive network broadcasting outlet then that would seem to mean NBC Sports can't move a race from Versus to OTA broadcast TV. So in reality, nothing has changed. Bah humbug!

Possibly no broadcast network was willing to pony up so they had no choice but to go with ABC/ESPN but I'd think the longterm interests of the sport would be better served with a shorter contract, less overall $$$, and giving another network a crack at coverage. ABC does a LOUSY job. The Versus product is SO much better. It's crossed my mind that Indycar would be better off with that production on a time-buy on network TV and try and rebuild the base that way.

Unless there's some promises and arm-twisting going on in the contract to force a better onscreen product and promotion out of ABC/ESPN then I'm having a hard time believing this is good for the sport.


ABC will remain the exclusive network broadcasting outlet with four additional IndyCar races airing on the network. I'm assuming this means the Indy 500 and 4 addtl races for broadcast TV... not 4 addtl races over what is currently in the ABC/ESPN package. IOW... there won't be 4 less races on Versus.

Sandman21
08-10-2011, 03:47 PM
I don't like it!

Bball
08-10-2011, 04:43 PM
Hopefully, when the story is updated, there will be a whole new spin on future coverage with massive changes on all fronts including partnership promotion, on screen talent, product placement, etc etc etc upgrades.

I don't see much positive here if it's more of the same... and especially with a 6 year contract.

DaveP63
08-10-2011, 06:19 PM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20110810/SPORTS0107/108100374/IndyCar-extends-pact-ABC-ESPN



Bah...

Balls...Hate it. Hate it. HATE IT!!!

DaveP63
08-11-2011, 07:55 AM
I like it!

I do too. Without the air box. I want to see it in person so I can digest the rear end which looks like an ALMS car right now.

Sandman21
08-14-2011, 02:14 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!


http://www.1070thefan.com/news/Story.aspx?ID=1522376

INDYCAR announced today that it will delay the introduction of alternative aero kits for its new IZOD IndyCar Series chassis until 2013. The next-generation chassis remains on target to debut in competition at the start of the 2012 season.

DaveP63
08-14-2011, 03:37 PM
There are not enough swear words in my vocabulary to say what I think about that...BTW, first lap crashes are a sign of major douchebaggary....

Sandman21
08-14-2011, 03:39 PM
Graham is snake-bit at the moment. Although that was probably the least preventable first lap wreck we've had in awhile.

Who was that who bonzaied the outside when we went green before Helio spun it? Looks like Scheckter.

Someone put Francrybaby in the wall, please.

AND GOOD FOR TAKUMA! Thats all on Dario. Takuma wasn't going to let the Princess pull that on him and Dario is done for the day!

AND WE HAVE THE FRANCRYBABY WHINE! CAN'T TAKE THE BLAME FOR TAKING HIMSELF OUT! SHUT IT AND WATCH THE REPLAY PRINCESS!

And I just joined the fire Bryan Barnhart camp! That restart absolutely shouldn't have occurred. AND POWER FLIPS OFF THE OFFICIALS WITH THE DOUBLE BIRD!

DaveP63
08-14-2011, 05:50 PM
Graham is snake-bit at the moment. Although that was probably the least preventable first lap wreck we've had in awhile.

Wrong place, wrong time. That's all.


Who was that who bonzaied the outside when we went green before Helio spun it? Looks like Scheckter.

Twas indeed the Scheckter. He passed everything but the pacecar and put on a show until...KERBLAMO!


Someone put Francrybaby in the wall, please.

Done and...


AND GOOD FOR TAKUMA! Thats all on Dario. Takuma wasn't going to let the Princess pull that on him and Dario is done for the day!

Despite Takuma taking blame for it, Daria definitely came down on him to keep him from getting underneath going into one.


AND WE HAVE THE FRANCRYBABY WHINE! CAN'T TAKE THE BLAME FOR TAKING HIMSELF OUT! SHUT IT AND WATCH THE REPLAY PRINCESS!

Teee Heee!!! :p


And I just joined the fire Bryan Barnhart camp! That restart absolutely shouldn't have occurred. AND POWER FLIPS OFF THE OFFICIALS WITH THE DOUBLE BIRD!

Classic double bird action and Power throws TGBB right under the bus on national TV along with Michael Andretti. Will TGBB make an appearance to explain himself? We shall see...

Sandman21
08-14-2011, 05:54 PM
And we get TGBB in the ABC booth!

And the rat throws on track officials under the bus! The buck stops with you!

And Will's response to that :

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpxv1uBnvF1qkxjew.jpg

Sandman21
08-14-2011, 06:24 PM
Servia now thinks HE won the race in the post race presser!

Now for a comparision between Target Ganassi and the other Ganassi team

Graham after Conway took him out:
.@Mikeconwayindy thanks for the apologies man. No worries. **** happens. See ya in Cali!

Dario after he hit Sato:

WAH!!! ITS ALL TAKUMA'S FAULT! HE WAS SUPPOSED TO LET ME CUT HIM OFF LIKE THAT! I CAN'T DO NO WRONG, BRYAN BARNHART HAS EVEN TOLD ME SO!

Watching the post-race with the track promoter, he might pay any fine Will may face (depending on gate receipts!), he's loving the action we saw today.

grace
08-14-2011, 07:30 PM
That race has to be the biggest piece of horse :censored: I've ever seen.

Sandman21
08-14-2011, 07:33 PM
I actually liked what I saw racingwise (Scheckter passing 10 cars in two laps on the outside, Princess taking himself out of the race) until the boneheaded decision to restart with 9 to go or whatever it was. Although on the other hand, that did result in some high entertainment....

Bball
08-14-2011, 10:48 PM
At this point there's no goof or gaff that Barnhart can make that leads me to believe he still won't have his job. Totally incompetent but yet there he is...

I do think the drivers and owners just need to get it out there in the open like Andretti and Power did today. Make sure TPTB know that casual fans and potential fans are being made aware of Barnhart's incompetence in race control.

And the decision to delay the aero packages???? WTF??? Can we take any more wind out of the sails of next season?

All hail the spec cars...

DaveP63
08-15-2011, 10:29 AM
The racing was great. Lots of passing. Too much crashing. Too much stupidity from race control. Should be a big groundswell about the obvious boners from race control. That remains to be seen. You CANNOT start cars with that much power with slick tires on a wet track. Period. Full stop. If you are going to try to save the track, you have to keep the cars on it and keep heat in it. Keep the line dry. As soon as you stop and allow the dampness to accumulate, you've lost it.

DaveP63
08-15-2011, 10:32 AM
Two more things...

He's full of s*** when he said that nobody was telling him the track was wet. The race control freq is TWO WAY.

I understand the economic reasons behind the single source supplier for the aero kits. I don't like it, but I understand it. If there are not multiple suppliers coming out with kits next year, I have doubts about the entire concept.

Sandman21
08-15-2011, 10:38 AM
If the pace car wipers are still going (as JR had them on the aborted restart), its probably not safe to go green.

Other than that, New Hampshire would be a great track for a Saturday Night race next year ala Iowa. There were moments under green where you actually see the draft as the car were going around the track. Imagine seeing this show on a DRY Saturday night!

DaveP63
08-15-2011, 02:47 PM
The way they squeeze the moisture out of the air when it's humid like that is way cool.

Sandman21
08-15-2011, 06:28 PM
We've got a predictable Robin Miller RIP on Barnhart on JMV going right now....

Bball
08-17-2011, 12:42 AM
Newman-Haas and Ganassi are protesting the results of Sunday's race. They claim they passed RHR before the yellow and the aborted restart.

TGBB will of course likely win this round because the 2002 Penske/Helio trump card rule will be played... the rule that basically says "No matter what the rules say the decisions of race control are final even if in direct conflict with the rules as written thus making the protest and appeal process a farce and waste of money and time"

It shouldn't have gotten to a point where this was necessary. No idea what TGBB thought he was doing trying to restart the race. Sure, you might take what the leader says about moisture with a grain of salt but if the people hoping to improve their position don't want to restart then you have to give that some weight. ...assuming the moisture on the track, cameras, cars, and pace cars wasn't enough evidence for race control.

Hopefully though this circus sh t has the clock ticking on TGBB era.

Bball
08-17-2011, 02:07 AM
Interesting read...
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-loudon-rewind/P1

DaveP63
08-17-2011, 10:55 AM
That is an EXCELLENT article.

Bball
08-25-2011, 08:26 PM
Hunter-Reay gets to keep his win. The chief steward trump card rule was played again so there was no real reason for the protest. ...because the trump card rule basically says the chief steward can make or change any rule at any time on his own discretion.

That said... Can't say I disagree with the ultimate outcome... a lot of craziness went on to get there though!

In other surprising news (that was sarcasm) Danica is headed to Nascar to run Nationwide with Jr and select Cup races for Stewart.

Good riddance.

Danica was IMHO ultimately a distraction. I firmly believe the majority of Danica fans were never going to be fans of the sport so she wasn't really helping to build Indycar racing. Instead, she was helping with its credibility problem. Real race fans not only don't care to follow Danica's every move if/when she's playing her role as non-factor, but we can figure out when she's in the top 5 because she's raced there and when she's there because she just hasn't pitted yet and the real lead pack already has.

So we don't need an excited race announcer hyping Danica's run to the front.... when that's not what it is. And I don't think Indycar racing needs announcers pandering to Danica fans who think it's an accomplishment to lead a couple of laps when the eventual podium drivers all pit. That just turns off people who actually follow the sport. And while I'm trashing Danica... has there ever been a driver anymore p-ss-poor on restarts? It's like she drops it in reverse everytime the green flag flies.

Did I mention good riddance?

DaveP63
08-27-2011, 07:57 AM
Say it ain't so! Princess Sparkle Pony is going to chase the cash. Guess they need to find a new "face" of the series.

Sandman21
08-27-2011, 08:36 PM
You mean Power ISN'T the face of the series right now? :D

Who cares about Danica leaving (besides ABC)? We got some racing (and Francrybaby whines) to be focusing on! Will gets the pole and Helio and Briscoe fill out the top 3 to start tomorrow, Francrybaby is in 4th. Let's see Dario knock himself out of the race again!

DaveP63
08-28-2011, 12:59 PM
You mean Power ISN'T the face of the series right now? :D

Who cares about Danica leaving (besides ABC)? We got some racing (and Francrybaby whines) to be focusing on! Will gets the pole and Helio and Briscoe fill out the top 3 to start tomorrow, Francrybaby is in 4th. Let's see Dario knock himself out of the race again!

No, no...sorry. You're thinking about the official "fingers" of the series. Penske sweep of the first three. Very interesting stuff!

Sandman21
08-28-2011, 06:52 PM
Good mostly clean racing, but not a lot of passing. Doesn't matter though, NOBODY was going to catch Will today!

And now he's got Francrybaby almost reeled back in from the damage that Kimball and Francrybaby himself did to Will earlier this year!

DaveP63
08-28-2011, 07:26 PM
Never is any passing there. Theres blood in the water now. Good to see a Penske 1-2-3. Never thought I'd ever say that!

Sandman21
09-04-2011, 01:46 PM
This Baltimore course looks pretty cool. Hope nobody misses turn 1 like Krohn did in the Lights Race today...... Well except for a certain crybaby. :D

HOLY CRAP that was a scary wreck with TK and Helio this morning!

Stryder
09-04-2011, 09:11 PM
I loved watching the Baltimore race today.

DaveP63
09-05-2011, 10:39 AM
TK is a lucky, lucky boy. The ALMS race was a demo derby, too.

Sandman21
09-05-2011, 12:30 PM
The Baltimore GP is a winner. Although I think they can remove the chicane on the front stretch. That thing really messed up the start and restarts. :D

Only way it could have been more of a winner would have been had Tony George clocked Robin Miller on the grid walk! (BTW, best Grid Walk of the year so far!) :D

Bball
09-05-2011, 02:35 PM
It was nice watching an Indycar race with such solid local support in the community they were in.

Bball
09-06-2011, 02:28 AM
Well... I just saw the safety truck near miss at the beginning. Holy crap, how does THAT happen???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHuIb2e5Nh0&feature=share

DaveP63
09-06-2011, 10:27 AM
There was a truck already parked in it's "hole" where he was supposed to park. Im sure TGBB was probably berating the drivers for something so he couldn't be bothered to actually look at the racing surface...LOL.

Bball
09-08-2011, 08:39 AM
There's some interesting comments in Miller's Mailbag (Speed.com) about race control this past weekend plus a story about Rahal and the truck is posted as well.

They touched on this during the broadcast but Miller had more on the subject of Penske being told by TGBB that Helio was an innocent bystander and would not be penalized and lose his starting spot if he switched to a backup car. Cindric was quoted on all of this. Then after a period of time Blanchard came to tell him that Helio WOULD be penalized. The issue then became, based on the earlier info they didn't bother with trying to repair the other car since it was easier just to prepare the backup. But he says had they known they would've been penalized in the first place then they would've had time to repair the primary car. So then he goes to talk to TGBB who now tells him it's what is in the rulebook. Which I think we all know is true but Cindric thought he was using 'the chief steward's discretion'... which we all know TGBB does do. And of course that seemed to be the case with his earlier comments to Cindric. Team Penske made it's decision based on direct info from TGBB.

Also, Briscoe's penalty... Apparently just 2 corners before the green race control told Briscoe he had to fall back and give up positions. Penske then pitted him under green (which allowed the cars around him to pass him obviously) but race control didn't like that so THAT is why we he then had to do a drive thru in the pits. The broadcast reported that the drivethru under green was his penalty after questioning why he was left toward the front in the lineup under yellow once they heard he'd be penalized for avoidable contact. I think I have that right...

DaveP63
09-08-2011, 10:20 AM
Roger must have one hell of a lot of self control. Foyt would have went up to race control and they'd still be picking up pieces of TGBB off the ground...I have been around and part of a LOT of racing series over the years and USAC makes Indycar look like a bunch of dolts...And that's saying a lot coming from me. The best I've ever seen was IMSA.

Sandman21
09-09-2011, 10:25 PM
The Captain doesn't need to go to Race Control to raise Hell. :D He does it behind the scenes! :D

Sandman21
09-18-2011, 12:59 AM
And Francrybaby may have just shot himself in the foot in Motegi! He better get penalized for punting Briscoe!

We're going to see us a whine tonight!

Moving to the back of the line? That's not a penalty! He was already at the back of the line!

And TK gets a drive through for speeding in the pits. Thats a whole lot worse than punting 3 other cars...... /sar

Bball
09-18-2011, 12:58 PM
Helio got moved from 7th to 22nd for passing in a yellow corner at the end of the race. Reports say he isn't happy....

Sandman21
09-18-2011, 01:37 PM
Poor Helio... not. Fact is he passed under yellow, but I can sure understand why he isn't happy, and I hope Penske raises some Hell with Race Control after that gift they gave Princess Francrybaby.

Bball
09-19-2011, 11:19 AM
I didn't actually see Helio's move so I don't know how blatant or unsafe it was. Assuming it wasn't much of either then I'd think requiring him to give back the spot would be plenty of punishment. That late in the race inserting him to the back of the pack is a mighty steep penalty.

It seems like every week we're on here talking about some penalty that was issued or wondering why a penalty wasn't issued. And the penalties all affect the racing outcome. I don't think that is good for casual fans or sponsors.

Bball
09-20-2011, 11:57 AM
Anti-confidence in Barnhart editorial-
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/new-cars/motorsports/indycar-series-still-defending-embattled-race-director/article2171432/page1/

What I come away with regarding TGBB is that I don't have a problem with the rulebook granting the chief steward discretion... I even think it's necessary for when extraordinary circumstances occur. I just don't trust TGBB to use that discretion properly.

Bball
09-29-2011, 01:34 PM
I was just looking at pics and reading Randy Bernhard's comments on the new 2012 Dallara. It made it's debut on the IMS oval this week.http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?NewTbl=1&Site=BG&Date=20110927&Category=SPORTS0107&ArtNo=109270806&Ref=PH&Item=5&M

Man... that thing is butt ugly. It looks like a flying saucer with a nosecone and wheels. I need to go back and look at the roadcourse look. It didn't look that ugly to me. I SO wish they hadn't postponed the aero-kits. I wouldn't mind a couple of ugly ducklings if they could kick azz but 33 of these? Hmmmmm

The next comment I have is about Bernhard hoping the new car can again challenge for speed records at Indy. Well, how hard would that be?? You could drag out 16 year old car next year if the rules allowed it and challenge for speed records. IOW, we've been there and done that. We don't need to reinvent the wheel in order for Indycar technology to show us those speeds. The template is already there. It shouldn't have been hard to put that into the equation if they really wanted it.

I think that's one of the biggest problems with Indycar losing the imagination of the general public- It's no longer the cutting edge of racing technology and there's no way to even market it as that as long as the current crop of cars can't match the speeds of 16 years ago.

So if they want them to challenge for records at IMS... that shouldn't be hard... and it shouldn't be hard with what's been learned about safety.... it shouldn't be a question mark. If it is, that doesn't speak well for what they've learned these past 16 years. Or the lines of communication between marketing types, engineering types, and racing types....

Bball
09-29-2011, 11:11 PM
Little Al... tsk tsk tsk....

DUI... Drag Racing...

Suspended from Indycar pending review.

I don't know what to say.

Sollozzo
09-30-2011, 06:23 AM
Two time 500 champ turned drunk drag racer. Sad.

DaveP63
10-02-2011, 03:55 PM
Anti-confidence in Barnhart editorial-
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/new-cars/motorsports/indycar-series-still-defending-embattled-race-director/article2171432/page1/

What I come away with regarding TGBB is that I don't have a problem with the rulebook granting the chief steward discretion... I even think it's necessary for when extraordinary circumstances occur. I just don't trust TGBB to use that discretion properly.

The Rule Book is supposed to be under revision and taking out a lot of "at the discretion of the chief steward". Since his discretion can be...interesting.

I was afraid this would go bad for Little Al since he's been getting some heat by product from the TGBB saga. I'd drink too...

That is not the most flattering angle for the new car. I am not a huge fan either, but it's better for the driver and I look for there to be some revisions before it becomes final. It just seems to me like it's got a fat ***...

Sandman21
10-02-2011, 04:37 PM
ED FREAKING CARPENTER!!

WHAT A FINISH!

Bball
10-03-2011, 04:16 AM
OK... So that could've been the last Kentucky Speedway Indycar race. I wasn't at this one so I guess I'm part of the problem this year but I think I've been to all but maybe 1 or 2 of the races there before today's race. I had nobody to go with me and I didn't want to go by myself. The people that normally would've went had commitments. BUT.... was an October Sunday date really anything but a suicidal date anyway? Not only competing with the NFL and Nascar on TV but also the Bengals in person. And if it was an annual date the Colts could've been in that mix too.

Indycar has proven this year that it's far from 'must-see' viewing on the ovals for fans. I'm still at a loss for the continued decline at all ovals (except Indy that seems to have stemmed the bleeding). Something needs looked at because clearly the series is missing something in the equation.

Is it the lack of American drivers that fans can relate to and follow their careers from grassroots to Indycar? Is Indycar just doing a bad job of promoting its drivers?

Does the series need to get more involved with promotion at the individual venues in order to see that the series and each event is promoted properly? Is Indycar more interested in the sanctioning fee versus the bigger picture and sustainability of the ovals and their health?

I'm not thrilled with the 8 year old cars and their detuned engines but is that really that much of a turn-off for the general public? Have they simply lost the imagination of the general public and hardcore racing fans as well?

How much of this is due to the inconsistency in race control and more importantly the public perception of the inconsistency in race control?

Has the Penske-Ganassi dominance hurt the series that badly?

Are the oval races too short and not providing enough bang for the buck? You go to a Nascar race and it fills an afternoon or evening. You go to local short tracks and you have a night full of hotlaps, q's, heats, consies, and feature. Sometimes multiples of those with different cars. Indycar, except for Indy is pretty much wham-bam-thank you mam. If it wasn't for the stupidly overly long yellows the races would be lucky to last 90mins. Should Indycar look to lengthen oval races and/or condense weekend schedules to just one day of quals and racing in order to give fans a longer time at the track?

Are prices too high at the track? Ticket pricing seems OK to me but since the stands are empty... maybe they need to be adjusted to find a better pricepoint. What about concessions? Concessions are always a rip-off so maybe that just is piling on to other problems?

Has something happened that has made the twisties more appealing to Americans than they used to be? Nascar overload? Growing up on Playstation and X box racing?

Has the push for more and more seats for Nascar during its hey day created a lot of empty aluminum for Indycar at ovals that has helped with the perception the events aren't drawing well... which has created a vicious cycle where the perception becomes reality and ends up a huge buzz kill?

Has DanicaMania actually turned more people off than it's brought to the track? Has it deligitamized the series with her unable to live up to the hype? I admit, it's turned me off. If it was that wouldn't it hurt twisties as well as ovals?

Is there something that makes some of these a problem for ovals but doesn't affect road and street courses?

DaveP63
10-03-2011, 05:14 PM
Way to go Dead Ed!!! Congrats to Sara as well! Going head to head with the NFL is not a good idea, IMO. I'm not sure what the answer to that one is. Either end the season earlier or maybe Saturdays? Friday night? Don't know. I'll have to think on that one for a while...

Sandman21
10-04-2011, 12:07 AM
I think Saturday races would be best, especially for traveling fans who have to work on Monday.

DaveP63
10-04-2011, 05:59 AM
Are the oval races too short and not providing enough bang for the buck? You go to a Nascar race and it fills an afternoon or evening. You go to local short tracks and you have a night full of hotlaps, q's, heats, consies, and feature. Sometimes multiples of those with different cars. Indycar, except for Indy is pretty much wham-bam-thank you mam. If it wasn't for the stupidly overly long yellows the races would be lucky to last 90mins. Should Indycar look to lengthen oval races and/or condense weekend schedules to just one day of quals and racing in order to give fans a longer time at the track?


The condensed schedule has a lot of merit. Somewhere along the line, we went from show up on Friday, Saturday practice and qualify and race Sunday. Don't know why we need to show up on Wednesday or Thursday and have two days of practice on a track we've been to every year. I see no reason why you couldn't practice on Saturday, qualify Sunday AM and race in the afternoon. Or do it all in one day. You don't need the extra time if you don't crash ;)

duke dynamite
10-04-2011, 10:05 AM
OK... So that could've been the last Kentucky Speedway Indycar race. I wasn't at this one so I guess I'm part of the problem this year but I think I've been to all but maybe 1 or 2 of the races there before today's race. I had nobody to go with me and I didn't want to go by myself. The people that normally would've went had commitments. BUT.... was an October Sunday date really anything but a suicidal date anyway? Not only competing with the NFL and Nascar on TV but also the Bengals in person. And if it was an annual date the Colts could've been in that mix too...
You could've went with us...

Last year and previous years this race was held on a Saturday evening or night. In 2007 (My first time at KY Speedway) it was held in early August. (Ideal) Last year it was held around this time, but it was a night race, and a great race all together. That and the seats we paid $25 for last year were $50 this year. That's nonsense. Luckily we got in for $20 since someone in our group was a retiree from the armed forces.

This is actually one of IndyCar's best events from a competition standpoint. (Plus it's very close to home. It only took a quarter of a tank of gas from Sparta, KY. to home in Bedford.)

A lot of grumblings from the garages pointed in the direction of Bruton Smith this weekend when people were commenting on the lack of fan support for this race. Apparently, which is a surprise to me is that a lot of people shrugged this race off because of the way the Cup race in July was handled by the track. I understand the fans' frustration, but I don't think it should've been carried over to IndyCar. No way.

I hope 2012 sees a Kentucky race. There are only a few races each year that I can attend, and Kentucky is always my #2 behind Indy.

Now Iowa? We might make the trek over there next summer. That was a great race.

__________________________________________________ ___________

On the way home from the race I got this email from Joel Berkemeier..



Let's pair together some news articles with the conversation I had with Kentucky Speedway president Mark Simendinger yesterday.

I asked Simendinger what time frame would work for an INDYCAR event in 2012. He told me that between the Kentucky Derby and the Indy 500. The month of May is pretty much out for a race at his track. June is the buildup for the NASCAR Sprint Cup race, while July would be needed for time between the events, marketing another event, and generally giving fans a break.

So that was a lot of words to say that, basically, the date the track would prefer is the same one they have in 2011. Sure, it's cold this weekend, but temperatures are usually in the lower 70's, which is definitely tolerable if not pleasant.

However, it would appear that the track is planning on life without the IZOD IndyCar Series.

From the Cincinnati Enquirer, we have the news that Kentucky Speedway is trying to pair the Nationwide Series with the Camping World Trucks for a race in late September or early October. (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/shiftinggears/2011/10/02/kentucky-speedway-nascar-talking-about-adding-second-nationwide-series-date/)

What does that mean for INDYCAR? Well, according to Robin Miller, it means that without title sponsors or some kind of financial assistance (ex. reduced sanctioning fees), INDYCAR won't be back to either Kentucky or Loudon. Bruton Smith was here yesterday and met with Randy Bernard as he tried to find a way past the impasse.

Curt Cavin got a number out of Randy Bernard - they're looking for a title sponsor of between a quarter and a half million dollars. (http://www.indystar.com/article/20111002/SPORTS0107/110020392/1052/SPORTS01)

A few folks have told me that they think the issue stems from what Bernard did at Las Vegas - which was rent the track out and promote his own race. And, yes, while I get why people think Bernard has undercut himself and reduced his ability to charge decent sanctioning fees on the ovals, the Las Vegas race only works because it's Las Vegas. The same thing would be hard, if not impossible, to pull off anywhere else in America.

Some other tidbits from Miller's article:
- Bernard has asked for changes at Mid-Ohio and Infineon to improve the show
- Porto Alegre has "fallen through"
- INDYCAR owners were not fans of the idea of the Iowa doubleheader
- A street circuit / oval doubleheader in Las Vegas is on hold until someone finds the $9 million it would take to pull off.

Miller also offers his guess at the schedule, which doesn't seem too unreasonable given what we know. http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-2012-schedule-revealed/ for that article.

A few more topics also came up with Mark Simendinger. He's hoping for a crowd of 30-35,000 today, which may be optimistic given how poorly attended the NASCAR Truck race was last night. (The race was won by Ron Hornaday for his 50th career Truck win.)

A revamp of the garages here was in the cards for this offseason until the parking issues came up after the inaugural Sprint Cup date. Once the parking issues are resolved, the garages will be re-done as Bruton Smith does not care for them. Once the parking is resolved and the garages are done, that should be it as far as major capital projects here in the short term.

Simendinger is still happy with how great his Sprint Cup date is, saying he faces very little competition in the local sports market for the race. In comparison, trying to sell this race faced resistance from not only the Cincinnati Bengals, but also college football. It makes it that much harder for he and the Speedway to get the word out. That said, a local reporter told us that promotion for this race was light compared to previous years and only started a few weeks ago.

Bball
10-04-2011, 11:54 AM
Duke,
Last year it was held on Labor Day weekend. Previously it had been either the first or 2nd weekend in August. This year was a month later than it's ever been. I know there were some question marks from some about the Labor Day weekend date due to something with the Reds. ... but Bruton thought the weekend would be big with people camping at the track. ...Or so he said...

But the October date adds the potential for cold weather to the event and pits it against Nascar AND the NFL, including the potential of having the Bengals and Colts playing in their home stadiums (which would both be considered markets that the KY track would hope to draw from). The Oct date is just absolutely suicidal IMHO.

duke dynamite
10-04-2011, 08:31 PM
Duke,
Last year it was held on Labor Day weekend. Previously it had been either the first or 2nd weekend in August. This year was a month later than it's ever been. I know there were some question marks from some about the Labor Day weekend date due to something with the Reds. ... but Bruton thought the weekend would be big with people camping at the track. ...Or so he said...

But the October date adds the potential for cold weather to the event and pits it against Nascar AND the NFL, including the potential of having the Bengals and Colts playing in their home stadiums (which would both be considered markets that the KY track would hope to draw from). The Oct date is just absolutely suicidal IMHO.
I said close to this time! :buddies:

Bball
10-06-2011, 12:54 AM
I said close to this time! :buddies:

Ok... if a month later is close to the same time... I didn't know we were playing horseshoes... :box: ;)

Sandman21
10-09-2011, 04:45 PM
Great nod from Indycar:

RBINDYCAR Randy Bernard
@IndyCar will honor #ironmanmike at IZOD INDYCAR world championships with #ironmanmike logo painted on grass infield
21 minutes ago

For those who aren't aware, Mike is the kid of the Ganassi Engineer who's been in pretty rough shape lately.

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 03:08 PM
And it all comes down to this. Great promotion work in Vegas, now time to see who takes it home today!

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 03:52 PM
HOLY ****!


And Franchitti just won it. Red Flagged 12 laps in. Not good.

Wheldon is hurt badly. Lifeline is on site.

Bball
10-16-2011, 04:15 PM
This is not good for Wheldon. Prayers would be in order...

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 04:22 PM
Dave Calabro says Wheldon has been life-lined out.

Bball
10-16-2011, 04:23 PM
Tarping his car is not a good sign.

travmil
10-16-2011, 04:28 PM
They covered Wheldon's car with a tarp and took it away. The entire top was cut off by the impact.

This is not good. It make me think there were things in the car they did not want anyone to see.

Bball
10-16-2011, 04:33 PM
Honestly I don't think I've ever seen a wrecked race car tarped when it doesn't involve a fatality. Hopefully, I just saw a situation where that wasn't the case.

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 04:36 PM
Thought there was another tarped car besides Wheldon out there....

Bball
10-16-2011, 04:40 PM
Thought there was another tarped car besides Wheldon out there....

I hope your right... I think... Because I'm pretty sure Wheldon was the only serious injury. But as someone that has watched a lot of racing this has all the signs of not being a good situation.

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 04:42 PM
Wheldon is the only one who has been airlifted out. JR and Pippa being sent by ambulance with dizzyiness.

Definitely the worst I've seen since Krosnoff's fatal accident at Toronto 96. Hoping we don't have similar results.

Bball
10-16-2011, 04:45 PM
I'm right there with you.

travmil
10-16-2011, 04:49 PM
The drivers are all heading in to the ops trailer. Looks like they are gonna call it.

Agreed about Krosnoff's accident. This is definitely the worst looking since that. Hope Wheldon is able to recover.

Bball
10-16-2011, 04:51 PM
I suspect they are getting first word on Wheldon's condition... Unless the drivers/teams have rebeled against running this track and initiated the meeting themselves...

travmil
10-16-2011, 04:53 PM
Very telling interview with Hamilton airing on ABC right now.

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 04:56 PM
AshleyJudd ashley judd
by dukedynamite
Thanks everyone for prayers. No update on Dan yet except unconscious but vitals are good. Everyone here very scared. Pray for medical team.
5 minutes ago Favorite Undo Retweet Reply


I hope she's right.

travmil
10-16-2011, 04:59 PM
Just said on ABC that Power was taken to the hospital as well.

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 05:02 PM
Yeah, Will had some lower back pain. They might as well call the race at this point. I don't think anyone is in the mood to race at least until we know something concrete on Dan.

travmil
10-16-2011, 05:03 PM
They are patching the track. Does that mean they plan to race on it today? Don't see a reason to patch it right now otherwise.

travmil
10-16-2011, 05:04 PM
So, what's the real issue here? Too many cars? Too much speed? Track too short? Combination?

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 05:06 PM
Probably too many cars, but its too early to say for sure.

Bball
10-16-2011, 05:06 PM
Michael Andretti's interview... mood... isn't painting a good picture either... (Wheldon is to join Andretti's team next season)....

travmil
10-16-2011, 05:06 PM
Andretti speaking the truth right now. Put driver's with their mindset against each other, it doesn't matter if the prize is 5 cents or 5 million they dont' want to lose to that other guy.

travmil
10-16-2011, 05:09 PM
Terry Blount just tweeted that Danica was seen crying in her garage....

DaveP63
10-16-2011, 05:10 PM
So, what's the real issue here? Too many cars? Too much speed? Track too short? Combination?

Yes. And I would add "spec" cars that contribute to all of the above by making pack racing basically mandatory. There is no separation. I hope the new car/engines make this a bad memory.

Bball
10-16-2011, 05:12 PM
Too much downforce. Not enough horsepower. Makes the track 'easy' to drive (a track like the cookie cutter 1/5mi high banks I should add). Also, makes passing hard and encourages pack racing and desperate moves. Keeps cars bunched up for long stretches.

Add in cars that you know will be fast in the race starting deeper in the pack because a slight miss on qualifying setup or run puts you back. But good teams have setups and drivers able to race just fine. And then (not that this had anything to do with the accident) but Wheldon being required to start last regardless of qualifying speed should be discussed. I guess technically, it did have something to do with things because if he'd started where he q'ed then it changes everything else. But it's not like he caused the wreck coming thru the field.

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 05:13 PM
Drivers meeting called.

DaveP63
10-16-2011, 05:13 PM
Thought there was another tarped car besides Wheldon out there....

There was. Right next to his. No replays on ABC, but the tarp and the way the top is sheared off means not good. Not even a bump from the roll hoop.

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 05:18 PM
*Pulled. No more need to see the picture*

Hoping for the best for Dan.

Bball
10-16-2011, 05:19 PM
The absolute lack of info from medical by this point is telling. I hope I'm wrong... But you'd expect to hear something even if it was 'critical with life threatening injuries'

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 05:24 PM
Cameras being set up in media center for announcement. My heart just sank.

AshleyJudd ashley judd
@
@mitchbr2013 The vitals good was what Dario was told.

Bball
10-16-2011, 05:25 PM
Let's hope it's positive news for Dan and bad news for the race...

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 05:31 PM
I could care less about bad news about the race. Right now, its all about Dan.

Bball
10-16-2011, 05:32 PM
I could care less about bad news about the race. Right now, its all about Dan.


Exactly my point.

travmil
10-16-2011, 05:34 PM
TerryBlountESPN seems to have the quickest info about this situation and he hasn't tweeted in over 20 minutes. Not looking good. Hope I'm wrong.

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 05:44 PM
Chris Hagan says presser about to start.

travmil
10-16-2011, 05:46 PM
A scumbag made a tweet making it look like Ashley Judd announced and confirmed Dan's passing. It's not true in case anyone sees it. Ashley has confirmed NOTHING at this point.

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 05:52 PM
Max Papis reporting on Twitter that we've lost Dan. Hoping he saw the bogus Ashley Judd tweet.

Confirmed. I think I'm going to be sick.

Lance George
10-16-2011, 06:03 PM
The race announcers have announced his passing.

travmil
10-16-2011, 06:06 PM
:(

Sollozzo
10-16-2011, 06:14 PM
Tragic.

RIP Dan.

Bball
10-16-2011, 06:44 PM
Sad.... Sad.... Sad... Not much to say right now. Here's a great read from just yesterday about Dan. What a difference a day makes. :cry:


LAS VEGAS -- Dan Wheldon strolled into IndyCar's Thursday night poolside hobnob and stole the show. Trendy white T-shirt. Confident smile. A can't-miss look with a beautiful family.

Go, daddy.

At any moment, Wheldon figures to be named Danica Patrick's replacement in Andretti Autosport's splashy No. 7 car. Given GoDaddy's energy for marketing, it will be the perfect platform for the reigning and two-time Indianapolis 500 winner with mainstream potential.

Seldom has the sport seen a transformation like this. Less than a year ago, Wheldon was left along IndyCar's roadside, unemployed, mostly unwanted and tagged with the oval-track label in a schedule rich with road courses. How would he rebound? Could he?

The 2005 series champion with strained departures from the Ganassi and Panther teams disagrees with the assessment, but he was running low on good options. Put it this way: His choice of IndyCar rides for the 2011 season was with a Firestone Indy Lights team with just a single IndyCar start, a 23rd-place finish in the previous year's 500.

But Wheldon and Bryan Herta Autosport made it work, winning the 500 with the help of Sam Schmidt Motorsports and its engineer at the time, Allen McDonald. Wheldon's stock hasn't stopped rising since.

Positive media exposure came from testing IndyCar's new car, then IndyCar CEO Randy Bernard chose him for a run at a $5 million bonus in Sunday's Izod World Championship at Las Vegas Motor Speedway.

That Wheldon already has hit the jackpot is only part of the story. That he appreciates the comeback is why he has become a fan favorite.

"I honestly think (setbacks) teach you to enjoy the good times," he said. "Up until that point, everything had always been good for me. Then I had a difficult part of my career.

"It's come full circle and I've enjoyed it, but you never know. It could change again very quickly in this business."

Wheldon said final details of his Andretti deal still are being worked out, and the timing of a resolution "depends on Michael (Andretti)."

Andretti has been ready to bring Wheldon back since Patrick confirmed her move to NASCAR full time. He said in August that Wheldon was his priority, and he hasn't deviated.

Andretti enjoyed working with Wheldon from 2003-05, including their 500 win and series championship in the final year together, but he's an even bigger fan of Wheldon now.

Wheldon, he said, has become a more mature man through a 2008 marriage to Susie Behm. They have two sons, and the stability has allowed him to improve his approach to fitness, driving and, well, everything.

"He's grown up," Andretti said.

Winning Indy for the second time, along with his summer stint as a television analyst during IndyCar races, has pushed him into the public spotlight like never before, Andretti said.

"His personality has not changed one bit, but he's become the type of guy everyone wants to be around," Andretti said. "I know it's been hard for him not to be racing, but being on TV has allowed people to get to know him and see why it's so easy to like him.

"It's amazing what winning the Indy 500 for a second time has done for him."

Herta wanted Wheldon to return, but his small team couldn't muster the resources. Still, he appreciates the lift Wheldon provided.

"There's probably not anyone (in IndyCar) who wouldn't like to have him at the Speedway," Herta said. "We'd like to have him anywhere because he brought so much leadership to our team.

"I don't know what people thought of him before (May), but if nothing else, you can't question his commitment."

Wheldon insists that joining Herta's team prior to the 500 wasn't a difficult choice. Friendships and trust are that important, he said.

"I knew that Bryan would do everything that he could, and at the end of the day, that's all you can ask for," he said. "I think sometimes you're better to go with people you know and trust than someone you don't know."

Soon, Wheldon's career will be entrusted to Andretti's Indianapolis-based team. They won 11 races and a series championship the last time around. They seek more of the same.

"I feel that for whatever reason, I've been blessed with a second chance," Wheldon said. "I'm going to make the most of it."

http://www.indystar.com/article/20111015/SPORTS0107/110150350/Wheldon-ready-drive-Patrick-s-car-next-year

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 06:50 PM
I'll be back next season, but it may take a few races.

Bball
10-16-2011, 07:05 PM
This is a tough loss for the sport. No doubting Dan belonged in a car and was a great spokesman for Indycar and any team he'd drive for.

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 07:20 PM
It's painful since we KNEW these cars could go airborne and yet we only had to make it through 1 more race with them.

graphic-er
10-16-2011, 08:51 PM
What terrible outcome here, Dan was certainly one of my favorite drivers in the series, and he was an absolute natural in the broadcasting booth earlier in the year and really made those races an interesting listen.

Even more bitter after hearing that he was going to replace Danica next year, and with the new cars coming on line. I think Andretti Green would have had a top driver again and could have put themselves back into contention with Ganassi and Newman Hass.

I wonder if there has ever been an Indy 500 winner in a fatal crash? I hope the speedway does a proper memorial during next years 500.

Absolute tragedy, and up until that point Dan was on a good pace to get his car to the front of the field.

Trader Joe
10-16-2011, 09:03 PM
I don't think I've ever experienced a sadder past couple hours as a sports fan. I have been legitimately depressed this entire evening over this. There isn't a personality I've enjoyed more in racing recently than Dan Wheldon. Dan might have been British, but he was a Hoosier in every sense in the he understood what the 500 meant. I hope we erect some sort of a permanent memorial for him at the Speedway, a two time champion deserves at least that. I don't think my mood can be Sunshiner right now. This makes the ******** going on in the NBA lockout look even more ridiculous. They play probably one of the safest sports you can and their quibbling over pennies, ****ing disgusting, but I digress.

Good bye Dan. :sad:

Bball
10-16-2011, 09:27 PM
Yes, there has been Indy 500 winners losing their life in the same season. Although none that I can think of in the modern era.

Dan had a really excellent record at the speedway. His 1st win was overshadowed by DanicaMania and Danica leading some meaningless laps towards the end of the race due to pit strategy. But he easily passed her after a few laps when the track went back to green (as did a couple of other cars... which should tell anybody paying attention she was not really in contention for the win).

He almost had a win at Indy for Ganassi but had a cut tire ruin his chances late in the race. Once again, his strength that day got lost in the shuffle when Hornish passed Marco at the stripe for the story of the race which obliterated any talk about Wheldon's strong run and bad luck that day.

Then he had strong finishes there with Panther. And then he won this past May with a headline stealing win of his own with the last lap drama and the his win for the underdog team. That finally got him the recognition and headlines he deserved as one of the historical top tier of Indy 500 drivers that had eluded him.

Sandman21
10-16-2011, 09:35 PM
I wonder if there has ever been an Indy 500 winner in a fatal crash? I hope the speedway does a proper memorial during next years 500.


Mark Donahue was the last one that I can think of, and he wasn't a reigning champion when he died.

If we just go through reigning champs who died we have:

Vuky who of course died while leading in what would probably would have been his third straight Indy win.

George Robson in 1946.

Floyd Roberts died in 1939 while attempting to win his second Indy.

Ray Keech died 16 days after winning Indianapolis in 1929.

Frank Lockhart was the reigning champ when he was killed in 1928.

Jimmy Murphy died the September after he won Indy in 1924.

Gaston Chevrolet in 1920.

Bball
10-16-2011, 09:43 PM
Dan's blog from USA Today yesterday. The info about the car's handling and speed isn't important... What's important is how professionally he responded to the situation. Nobody was thrown under the bus. No bitterness. No "I" in "team".... Just more evidence of what a sportsman and spokesman Indycar lost today.


So far, things haven't been going very well as we've started our pursuit of the GoDaddy IndyCar Challenge this weekend at Las Vegas Motor Speedway, but I'm confident in the ability of the guys at Sam Schmidt Motorsports to find the problem and get it fixed.

It's actually been a very difficult weekend for us so far. Basically we carried over our problem from Kentucky Speedway, where we just didn't have the speed and never really found it.

But I've been watching these guys work their tails off trying to fix this problem, and I believe they'll turn it around before Sunday's race. As you know, the Challenge is a rather unique promotion. I'll start 34th in a 34-car field in Sunday's Izod IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda. If I win the race, I'll split a $5 million prize with Ann Babenco of High Bridge, N.J., who was chosen at random.

But during Thursday's practice session and Friday's practice and qualifying sessions, we were quite a bit off the pace in the No. 77 Bowers & Wilkins Magnolia/William Rast Dallara/Honda. When I say quite a bit, I mean more than 3 mph off the pace. If we start the race that far off the pace, it's going to be difficult to keep up.

But I have every confidence in Rob Edwards, our team manager, and his group of engineers. Rob has done a very good job of analyzing the problem. He's eliminating issues one by one. Hopefully by the race, we will have changed things enough that we will have discovered what's slowing us down.

It is incredibly frustrating, both for me and them. All the boys are working as hard as possible, but so far we haven't pinpointed what it is. Part of the reason it's so frustrating is because we'd created so much momentum around Indy, both with my victory in Bryan Herta's car and with Alex Tagliani's pole position in the car we're driving this weekend.

But there are a couple of positives. First, this is essentially the same group of people that combined to win the pole and the race at Indy; we've just switched cars. Alex is in the No. 98 car that I drove at Indy, and I'm in the No. 77 he drove to the pole at Indy. Second, and this is key, Alex has been fast in the 98 car so far at Vegas. Very fast. He's got the fourth starting position for Sunday's race, so we know we have the potential for a good car. We just haven't found it yet.

So everybody in our garage is trying their best, and they're going about it methodically and professionally, step by step, trying to get to the bottom of it. It's obviously something significant, because I'm so far off the pace. Alex did a 221.330 mph for his two-lap qualifying run. I barely got over 218. So whatever the problem is, it's significant.

That, too, gives me confidence. A difference that large forces you to look at everything. You're that far off, so you need to change everything. You have to be bold in your changes, and that's what Rob is being. When the difference in speed is small, the problem is harder to find. But we're not a little bit off, so it should be easier to define the problem.

I'm impressed by Rob and his guys and how detailed they're being and how hard they're trying, but it's frustrating for everyone. These guys want to win this challenge just as much as I do, so they're giving it everything they have.

Another good thing is that we have a full day Saturday to work on the problem. Right now, all they need is time to take the car apart and check everything. I'm confident they'll find it and we'll get out there Sunday with a car that can move through the field.

This is going to be an amazing show. The two championship contenders, Dario Franchitti and Will Power, are starting right next to each other in the middle of the grid. Honestly, if I can be fast enough early in the race to be able to get up there and latch onto those two, it will be pure entertainment. It's going to be a pack race, and you never know how that's going to turn out.

We all know what this team can do, and I know what I can do. At the end of the day, I have every confidence I them. We should be good in the race. They've worked hard at this, and they'll figure it out.

As long as I can find some speed and keep up with the pack, I'll do everything I can to put on a show.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/indycar/story/2011-10-15/Dan-Wheldon-frustrated-with-car-in-Las-Vegas/50786654/1#uslPageReturn

Bball
10-17-2011, 04:52 AM
ESPN.com learned from team owner Michael Andretti that just hours prior to Sunday's race, Wheldon signed a multiyear deal to replace Danica Patrick in Andretti Autosport's No. 7 car sponsored by GoDaddy.com.

Wheldon drove for Andretti Autosport from 2003 to 2005, winning the 2005 Indianapolis 500 and series championship. He was part of a powerful, four-car Andretti juggernaut including Dario Franchitti, Tony Kanaan and Bryan Herta that won 11 of 17 races during that magical '05 season.

"He was a very close friend and we had just literally inked it this morning," Andretti said. "We had great plans to do fun things together. I'm going to miss him. There was a lot of life in that guy. He was part of the glory days here. We had a combination that has never been put together in the sport of auto racing, in my opinion.

http://espn.go.com/racing/indycar/story/_/id/7111348/indycar-series-dan-wheldon-death-stuns-racing-world

travmil
10-17-2011, 08:33 AM
Man, even more depressing now. I don't follow IndyCar hard core like you guys do but I do keep tabs on the race results and point standings. This makes me feeling sad over the lockout and the Colts season seem so insignificant I feel guilty for thinking they were that important. What a terrible day.

Sollozzo
10-17-2011, 08:44 AM
Man, I bet Wheldon would have had a great season with Andretti in 2012. He certainly would have had a great chance to win a third Indy. Such a shame.

Words really can't describe how big of a loss this is for the sport.

I get so sad when I see the footage of him celebrating with his kid after winning the 500 in May.

Trader Joe
10-17-2011, 12:10 PM
Still can't believe Dan is gone this morning :(

Sollozzo
10-17-2011, 12:13 PM
Still can't believe Dan is gone this morning :(



Man, I know. I've barely been able focus on anything since it happened. I can't stop thinking about it.

RIP Champ.

Trader Joe
10-17-2011, 12:20 PM
It really feels like we've lost one of our own.

Bball
10-17-2011, 12:38 PM
Hard to believe this thread started with talking about Wheldon's incredible and thrilling 2011 Indy 500 win and is now talking about his untimely death.

Wheldon was a popular Indy 500 champ and driver. He built on that with his work on Vs this summer when he truly showed he was a fan of the sport and someone who got it. We were all happy for him that he was getting a full time ride at Andretti with the GoDaddy sponsorship. He was poised to be out front and center of the series with his talent and charisma and that type of sponsorship package as well as being part of the Andretti Autosport team. And he would have been there by working his way to that position, not by hype.

Then there's his young family that he always seemed to care so much about.

It all seems unfair.

On Sunday morning it seemed he was on top of the world. And then a few hours later, he was gone.

Lost in all the talk about the good things that were happening in his life up until Sunday afternoon, let's not forget the news we learned during May that his mother was diagnosed with Ahlzheimers. That just adds another tragic layer to this story.

Dan Wheldon will certainly be missed by many people and I suspect there will be a moment of reflection as Indy ticket holders open that blue envelope next year and see Dan Wheldon's image on their Indy 500 tickets.

RIP Dan Wheldon

Trader Joe
10-17-2011, 12:45 PM
I was just looking at the still frames of the accidents. The ones where Dan's car is just getting launched in the air are the most powerful to me. I wonder what he was thinking, I just hope his last thoughts were happy.

They are just so surreal, to go from being completely in control to being so helpless in a split second.

I don't know why this is affecting me so much, but it has really left me shaken.

Trader Joe
10-17-2011, 12:48 PM
I also feel cheated that we only got to see him in 3 races this year. How did the top teams ever let him go without a full time ride? What a total failure on their part. We got cheated not getting to see his talent week in and week out, but his fellow drivers probably couldn't have asked for a better test driver for the new cars. Perhaps that was just the role Dan was intended to play. Perhaps that his selfish, but I wish we could have gotten a full final season of Dan's talent.

Trader Joe
10-17-2011, 01:12 PM
Just out of curiosity, how many people need to die at these ovals before IRL realizes they just aren't made for open wheel cars? I mean even IMS is not really a typical high speed oval, it has a lot of road course characteristics.

Bball
10-17-2011, 01:16 PM
Just out of curiosity, how many people need to die at these ovals before IRL realizes they just aren't made for open wheel cars? I mean even IMS is not really a typical high speed oval, it has a lot of road course characteristics.

I plan on starting a thread about topics like the above later tonight or tomorrow... Just figured this thread and timing wasn't right yet.

Trader Joe
10-17-2011, 01:20 PM
I mean Formula 1 NEVER races on ovals. Shouldn't that be a sign? I know it's not necessarily the best place for this, but it is bothering. Injuries can happen and death can happen on road courses, I just feel like when we run at these high speed, high banked ovals, it is just asking for disaster to strike. You have Greg Moore in 99 as another example. Plus Davey Hamiltn's near miss at Texas.

travmil
10-17-2011, 01:53 PM
Well, we all know of course that there is inherent risk in this sport. We've even had threads and posts touch on it. It sure doesnt make it any easier to deal with when the risk becomes reality though.

I want to see the other threads Bball starts because I have a question for him and Sandman that while it is relevant, isn't entirely appropriate for this thread.

duke dynamite
10-17-2011, 04:13 PM
I am not going to say cut out the ovals. We already know the 2012 IndyCar will have two different versions, both for road/street and ovals.

However, high-speed "NASCAR" ovals like Vegas should be cut. No need to get rid of the rest. Iowa, Texas and Kentucky are all great venues that you see very high speeds at but are also very wide with similar or less banking. Vegas is too narrow.

I believe that there were too many cars starting yesterday to begin with, and this was known by Randy Bernard. The man only knows how to promote and not look at the pros and cons apparently.

Ridding the series of ovals is a bad idea.

Sandman21
10-17-2011, 04:33 PM
I'd like to see what the new cars bring to the table safety-wise (and if possible, the chassis named after Dan) before I lay down final judgement on going back to Vegas.

If they can figure out a way to make the new cars less likely to get airborne (which this generation Dallara has had a disturbing amount of incidents), I'd be more comfortable in going back.

DaveP63
10-17-2011, 04:53 PM
Just out of curiosity, how many people need to die at these ovals before IRL realizes they just aren't made for open wheel cars? I mean even IMS is not really a typical high speed oval, it has a lot of road course characteristics.

It is a function of the track (banking) and the package (car). There is a reason that Indycars never used to run on highly banked tracks and this is a terrible reminder of why.


I mean Formula 1 NEVER races on ovals. Shouldn't that be a sign? I know it's not necessarily the best place for this, but it is bothering. Injuries can happen and death can happen on road courses, I just feel like when we run at these high speed, high banked ovals, it is just asking for disaster to strike. You have Greg Moore in 99 as another example. Plus Davey Hamiltn's near miss at Texas.

It is primarily a function of culture. The European road racing (literally) culture versus the oval track fairgrounds (horsetracks) circuits that prevailed here.


I am not going to say cut out the ovals. We already know the 2012 IndyCar will have two different versions, both for road/street and ovals.

However, high-speed "NASCAR" ovals like Vegas should be cut. No need to get rid of the rest. Iowa, Texas and Kentucky are all great venues that you see very high speeds at but are also very wide with similar or less banking. Vegas is too narrow.

I believe that there were too many cars starting yesterday to begin with, and this was known by Randy Bernard. The man only knows how to promote and not look at the pros and cons apparently.

Ridding the series of ovals is a bad idea.

Yes to taking a look at track width, but the real saving grace would be the ability of cars to separate. The necessity of braking rather than matting it for the entire fuel run would be a bonus.

DaveP63
10-17-2011, 04:55 PM
I'd like to see what the new cars bring to the table safety-wise (and if possible, the chassis named after Dan) before I lay down final judgement on going back to Vegas.

If they can figure out a way to make the new cars less likely to get airborne (which this generation Dallara has had a disturbing amount of incidents), I'd be more comfortable in going back.

Flat bottomed cars getting air underneath. Don't know how to get around that.

Sandman21
10-17-2011, 06:31 PM
I'm not a physics genius, but its my understanding that covering the rear wheels on the new chassis was to help prevent the launching of cars into the air (which from watching the replay, looked to me was how most of the cars with the exception of JR, got airborne yesterday). If that is correct, thats a start. Maybe Indycar needs to look at bringing back the Hanford device for the ovals like Texas to get speeds down a little bit as well.

As much as we've all wanted to see Barnhart gone, perhaps he should redirected out of race control to focus on driver safety, something that with the exception of New Hampshire this year, he's always been big on.

DaveP63
10-17-2011, 07:14 PM
I'm not a physics genius, but its my understanding that covering the rear wheels on the new chassis was to help prevent the launching of cars into the air (which from watching the replay, looked to me was how most of the cars with the exception of JR, got airborne yesterday). If that is correct, thats a start. Maybe Indycar needs to look at bringing back the Hanford device for the ovals like Texas to get speeds down a little bit as well.

As much as we've all wanted to see Barnhart gone, perhaps he should redirected out of race control to focus on driver safety, something that with the exception of New Hampshire this year, he's always been big on.

That is the idea for the new cars. I am curious as to what the structure is underneath the fairing. The Hanford device did provide additional drag, but the main function is to punch a big hole in the air to make it easier to pass. Carbon fiber brakes could help by shortening the braking distance, but they only work when up to temperature. The only way to get them up to temp on an oval is to use them a couple of times a lap. And...now were back to the original problem. How do we get the cars slowed up. As counter intuitive as it sounds, more HP, less aero. Also think back to the 70s and 80s. How many high banks did they run? Exactly...Flatter tracks, but where are they now?

Sandman21
10-17-2011, 07:28 PM
But I wasn't around for the 70s and 80s! :D

Will say that watching the replay today again makes me think more of watching the archive footage of the second lap of Indianapolis 1964 than of Krosnoff's wreck in 1996.

DaveP63
10-17-2011, 07:50 PM
LOL, the point being the tracks then were "flat" (think Pocono) for the most part. The "banked" tracks were for stock cars. I don't think you could find more than a hand full of the flat tracks on the whole stinking planet...

Trader Joe
10-18-2011, 11:41 PM
Just FYI IndyStar currently has a picture in their gallery of Wheldon, well I'm just going to go ahead and say it, Wheldon's body being loaded on to the emergency helicopter. I don't know how much longer it will be up, but it is pretty clear from the photo that Dan has already passed by the time this is taking place. His body is covered by a sheet on the stretcher and they are not performing any life sustaining procedures. Likely that he was just transported to the hospital to be pronounced dead to help with paperwork the same way Senna's body was. Sort of can't believe they have this picture up on there.

Bball
10-19-2011, 01:51 AM
Speaking Monday from his go-kart facility not far from the Las Vegas Strip, Schmidt acknowledged that Dan Wheldon's death at Las Vegas Motor Speedway had left him shaken - maybe even enough to leave the sport he loves.

"I'd by lying if I said I wasn't - you've got to think about it," Schmidt said. "It's one thing to take the risk yourself and my situation, it's something I was doing since I was 5 years old and I'm still here to watch my kids grow up. It's an amazing parallel between Dan's age and my age when I got hurt and the ages of his kids.

"I just don't know if I can be this tightly associated with something like that in the future."

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/oct/17/wheldons-death-hits-schmidt-hard/

Bball
10-19-2011, 01:51 AM
Speaking Monday from his go-kart facility not far from the Las Vegas Strip, Schmidt acknowledged that Dan Wheldon's death at Las Vegas Motor Speedway had left him shaken - maybe even enough to leave the sport he loves.

"I'd by lying if I said I wasn't - you've got to think about it," Schmidt said. "It's one thing to take the risk yourself and my situation, it's something I was doing since I was 5 years old and I'm still here to watch my kids grow up. It's an amazing parallel between Dan's age and my age when I got hurt and the ages of his kids.

"I just don't know if I can be this tightly associated with something like that in the future."

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/oct/17/wheldons-death-hits-schmidt-hard/

Since86
10-19-2011, 12:08 PM
I'd like to see what the new cars bring to the table safety-wise (and if possible, the chassis named after Dan) before I lay down final judgement on going back to Vegas.

Good call.




New IndyCar Series chassis will be named in honor of Wheldon
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/racing/more/10/18/indycar.chassis.dan.wheldon.ap/index.html#ixzz1bFDxFZAA