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View Full Version : AP Recap... decent. Need more info! Who saw this game?



Anthem
10-12-2004, 12:00 AM
Pacers win as clock runs out

MUNCIE, Ind. -- Randy Holcomb tipped in a rebound as the clock expired to lift the Indiana Pacers to an 85-84 win over the Washington Wizards in the preseason opener for both teams tonight.

After Washington's Jared Jeffries tipped in a miss by Michael Ruffin with 9.7 seconds to play, Indiana's Eddie Gill drove the lane and missed a high-arching layup. Holcomb came from the backside to tip it in.

Stephen Jackson was sharp in his Pacers debut with 19 points and seven rebounds at Worthen Arena on the campus of Ball State University.

Jackson, acquired from Atlanta in an off-season trade that sent Al Harrington to the Hawks, scored 10 points in 10 minutes in the first quarter.

He started for Ron Artest, who watched the game after missing two practices while attending his grandmother's funeral.

Jermaine O'Neal also missed the game for Indiana with a sprained left foot.

A slimmed-down Brendan Haywood had 17 points, seven rebounds and four blocks for Washington. Haywood's numbers would have been even more impressive if he hadn't gone 3-for-11 from the free-throw line.

Washington made just 14 of 32 (49 percent) foul shots on the night.

Pacers rookie center David Harrison looked good in his NBA debut, scoring 14 points in 24 minutes. He scored 12 in the fourth quarter, including a nifty three-point play that gave the Pacers a 78-72 lead.

Washington used tough defense from Gerald Fitch to fuel an 8-0 run that put the Wizards ahead 80-78.

Fitch hit a jumper, then got a steal and a layup in the spurt.

Larry Hughes had 13 points and seven rebounds for the Wizards.

Hicks
10-12-2004, 12:07 AM
I was there; and while the 2nd/3rd quarters were pretty sleepy, it got close at the end, and had a great finish.

We couldn't stop them from scoring to go up 1 w/ 9 seconds left. Timeout Pacers. They run a play, shot misses, everyone's scrambling to tip the ball in, and after 4 tries, the 4th ones drops at the LAST possible moment before the buzzer, crowd erupts, including Larry Bird, Pacers win. Great way to end the game.

Oh, and David Harrision looked pretty decent. If he plays like he did tonight consistently, he should be the backup to Jeff.

Hicks
10-12-2004, 12:09 AM
By the way, why didn't Ron Artest play? It can't be the funeral, because he was there, warming up an hour before the game with the rest of the team. And yet, there he was in dress clothes.

:confused:

TheSauceMaster
10-12-2004, 12:18 AM
Rick said he missed 2 practices last week and they wanted to ease him back into the things.

Hicks
10-12-2004, 12:27 AM
Sorry, but it smells of cover up to me. If you're back w/ the team, and shooting around before the game, and healthy, why would you not at least play the 1st period of the game. It doesn't make much sense. And since Ron's missed time before for "migraines" I can't help but suspect something's up.

TheSauceMaster
10-12-2004, 12:40 AM
Sorry, but it smells of cover up to me. If you're back w/ the team, and shooting around before the game, and healthy, why would you not at least play the 1st period of the game. It doesn't make much sense. And since Ron's missed time before for "migraines" I can't help but suspect something's up.

Come on , the man just had a family Death , and your hammering HIM ?????

Hicks
10-12-2004, 12:45 AM
I wouldn't be if he wanted time away from the team for it. But he was already back, made the bus trip to Muncie, went through his normal pre-game workouts. If you're going to do all of that, why wouldn't you just play?

TheSauceMaster
10-12-2004, 12:50 AM
I wouldn't be if he wanted time away from the team for it. But he was already back, made the bus trip to Muncie, went through his normal pre-game workouts. If you're going to do all of that, why wouldn't you just play?

Ask Rick , I am just telling you what he said , from what I understand he just got back into town today , most employers give 3-5 days off for funerals.

I won't even Mention how much time JO , Mark Jackson and Tinsely didn't he have a family issue with a death also , sorry that's almost tasteless to assume such a thing.

:unimpressed::unimpressed::unimpressed::unimpresse d::unimpressed:

Hicks
10-12-2004, 01:01 AM
Not really. If the issue was needing time to morn, you don't come back to, travel with, and workout with the team, only to not play. You either take time away or you don't. Thus, I say it looks fishy.

TheSauceMaster
10-12-2004, 01:05 AM
Well from Ricks comments , Rick is the one who made the call not to play Ron , Not Ron.

beast23
10-12-2004, 01:08 AM
Hicks.

It's the preseason, for Pete's sake.

The man didn't play in the FIRST preseason game after not being with the team for 3 days.

You're reading WAY TOO MUCH into this

TheSauceMaster
10-12-2004, 01:08 AM
anyways ..SJAX had 19 Pts in 22 mins

burnzone
10-12-2004, 02:18 AM
I was there, I will try to assemble what I saw.

Hicks is correct, David Harrison really stood out to me as well. He was in there banging, trying to establish position, and on the other end trying not to allow his man position.

I also noticed that he was playing against their starters a bit, when we had 2nd and 3rd stringers in, I saw Arenas, Hughes, Hayes, Jefferies, and Haywood for their 5 a lot.

I also noticed what people are always saying about David Harrison being very emotional on the court.

When he would be running with his man down the court, he was wrestling with them a lot, fighting for position, and I also noticed this on blocking out for free throws as well. He was getting into it quite a bit when playing against that 7'3" Peter John Ramos, from the Puerto Rico Olympic squad.

This is not a bad thing to me, he was under control the whole time, and I was very impressed, he was going all out on both ends of the floor.

I will say this, and I know it's only one game, and preseason no less, but folks, David Harrison is a banger in the post.

He is not this buttery soft, over-emotional, out of shape player that some media and writers have made him out to be.

It will take time, but I can see him being our starting center, no doubt. The skill is there, the effort is there, the size is there, and the desire seems to be there.

Ok, I apologize about the length of that part on Harrison, now for the rest of what I saw at the game.

I know a lot of people have been skeptical about the Stephen Jackson for Al trade, but he stood out to me as well.

He has amazing skill, appears to be a solid defender, his shot looked really good, and he can get to the basket.

I loved having Al on the team, but I think Stephen Jackson might make people less sour about the trade as soon as more people get a chance to see him play for us, he is exciting to watch.

James Jones looked pretty good, but he won't get any PT this year unless there is injuries.

Foster and Croshere looked like their usual selves, hitting the boards hard, Jeff getting scrap buckets, and Austin getting to the line.

Pollard looked only slightly improved, still has stone hands, but looks to defintely be in better physical condition.

He had one nifty spin move in the paint, that got him an easy layup, but he traveled bigger than *****, so it wasn't something I expect to see from him on a rgular basis.

Jamaal looks to be in great shape, and has his quickness back that he had in college. He was getting into the paint no problem, and wasn't making too many mistakes with the ball, but his shot wasn't falling all that well. If he stays healthy, he will have a great season.

Fred Jones had a hell of a game for the time he was in there, it will be hard for the coach to keep him off the floor, we may have to go with a short, quick lineup sometimes.

Reggie was on for the time he was in there, he looked good, but only played like 10 minutes or so.

The rest of the guys fighting for a roster spot; Desmond Farmer hit a couple shots and looked decent, but we won't need another SG.

Rashad Wright didn't play enough for me to base an opinion, neither did John Edwards.

Eddie Gill hustled when he was out there, hit the boards, and defended his man ok, but couldn't score worth a *****, he is definitely 3rd string.

Holcomb got that winning tip at the end, and crashed the boards well for the time he was in there, but he won't get a spot.

Jermaine, Ron, and JB obviously didn't play, but I am very excited about this year from what I saw, as long as we can stay healthy for 82+.

We are as deep as we have ever been, and I really think if Harrison works hard, he will be able to work his way into the lineup sooner than later.

Bball
10-12-2004, 02:35 AM
Hicks,
Maybe the Pacers have a trade for Artest on the table? :devil:

-Bball

Fool
10-12-2004, 09:24 AM
You know, reports are that Peja still believes he won't be in Sac by the trade deadline since he is still saying he won't resign (or activate his player option)after his contract expires next year.

If he sticks by that the Kings would be smart to move him this year as they lose a lot of power in a player's last year of a contract (that is, in a good player's last year.)

ChicagoJ
10-12-2004, 09:54 AM
Whatever happened to the rule that if you miss a practice, you miss a game? That rule isn't a punishment for an excused absence like a funeral or illness; its a common sense recognition that generally the team is better prepared to play without the player that has been absent than to throw the recently-absent player back into the mix at the last minute. (Especially true for the first exhibition game).

If that's how Rick wants to handle it then (1) more power to him, and (2) that's all it means - "coach's decision" doesn't really require any more explanation than that.

TheSauceMaster
10-12-2004, 11:26 AM
Whatever happened to the rule that if you miss a practice, you miss a game? That rule isn't a punishment for an excused absence like a funeral or illness; its a common sense recognition that generally the team is better prepared to play without the player that has been absent than to throw the recently-absent player back into the mix at the last minute. (Especially true for the first exhibition game).

If that's how Rick wants to handle it then (1) more power to him, and (2) that's all it means - "coach's decision" doesn't really require any more explanation than that.

Well said Jay :amen:

Granville
10-12-2004, 11:28 AM
You may have seen this morning that Carlisle said they put in some new offense while Ron was away and they didn't want him to have to learn on the fly during the game.

Hicks
10-12-2004, 11:36 AM
Yes, I've read more and see that it could just be he wasn't ready to play w/ the system. That's fine. I apparently come across as hounding Ron, but that's not my intent. It just struck me as odd, especially with him, and what I know goes on with him, to see him be back, warming up, and then not play.

But the story about not knowing the system (or I guess the new wrinkles) after missing 2 practices makes sense, and I will buy it.

Granville
10-12-2004, 11:41 AM
I don't know that I would say you are hounding Artest, Hicks. But quite frankly, if you are, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I'm all for Ron and hope he continues to progress, but his history is going to cause people to look at his actions a bit more critically or cynically.

owl
10-12-2004, 12:07 PM
As far as Harrison is concerned, I believe he will be
a definite contributor off the bench this year. He has
already shown more than Brezec ever did. I am very
delighted the Pacers were able to get him in the draft
at the position they were at. He will be the steal of the draft possibly. That was my pick for the Pacers.

owl

Unclebuck
10-12-2004, 12:46 PM
For the few of you who saw the game: as the offense any different looking. Probably not a good barometer with 3 of their top offensive guys out.

I was thrilled and yet not surprised one bit to hear Mark and Slick say that the Pacers were really getting after it on the defensive end. With Carlisle as coach we should expect nothing else.

With three coahces like O'Neill, Mike Brown and Carlisle, the defense is in good hands.

Roy Munson
10-12-2004, 01:59 PM
Fred Jones had a hell of a game for the time he was in there, it will be hard for the coach to keep him off the floor, we may have to go with a short, quick lineup sometimes.



Yes. I'm looking forward to see if they use these lineups...

Tinsley
FJones
SJax
Artest
O'Neal

or

FJones
SJax
Artest
Bender
ONeal

I think both of those lineups would allow the Pacers to play a very fast disruptive style for 4 minute bursts. There are many more combos that surely be used. They could use an entire second unit that could prove to be very effective. The addition of SJax seems to have given the Pacers a little more versatility and flexibility than they had last season. I'm just hoping that they can somehow find a way to give Freddy 20 minutes per game.

indygeezer
10-12-2004, 02:12 PM
I dunno, when I think of RA warming up an hour ahead and then not playing AT ALL...it makes me go HHHHhmmmmmmm????

Not predicting anything but I wonder if at some point in the distant future we might not hear more about this....kinda like the story that got out about the migranes...later, after the fact.

ChicagoJ
10-12-2004, 02:26 PM
Far be it for *me* to take this side...

I don't think so.

I think they're going to handle Ron very publicly this season. He's either going to 'get it', or it will be clear to Pacers fans why they're trading him.

Besides, I just popped my very last Nexium right before I typed this. I'm not ready for that type of stress right now. :rolleyes:

Granville
10-12-2004, 02:58 PM
I don't know, Jay. You may be right. That seems to be how they handled the summer. But I've got to think they would be somewhat quiet until after the trade deadline.

Enjoy the Nexium.

ChicagoJ
10-12-2004, 03:11 PM
Why? I want to expand on that...

I know the conventional answer - but I don't think I agree with it.

I think all the other GMs in the league know what's going on behind the scenes. Look at Jerry West's comment the other day - he basically said Ron is such an off-court risk that it overshadows his great play on the court.

Remember who Ron used to play for in Chicago? That's right, Jerry Krause, who's just the type of weazel to tell a few other GMs, over a glass of scotch, just how happy he was to take Jalen's enormous contract just to unload the guy before things got any worse in Chicago.

As we've determined, Indy Star reporters were involved in last season's coverup. I think the only people on the planet that don't find out about Ron's transgressions are Pacers fans.

Granville
10-12-2004, 04:40 PM
Why? I want to expand on that...

I know the conventional answer - but I don't think I agree with it.

I think all the other GMs in the league know what's going on behind the scenes. Look at Jerry West's comment the other day - he basically said Ron is such an off-court risk that it overshadows his great play on the court.

Remember who Ron used to play for in Chicago? That's right, Jerry Krause, who's just the type of weazel to tell a few other GMs, over a glass of scotch, just how happy he was to take Jalen's enormous contract just to unload the guy before things got any worse in Chicago.

As we've determined, Indy Star reporters were involved in last season's coverup. I think the only people on the planet that don't find out about Ron's transgressions are Pacers fans.

Valid points, and for the most part I agree. However, in negotiations people tend to want to paint as rosy a picture as possible, even if the other side knows you are desperate.

I know we both agree on hoping for the best and that this whole thing becomes a moot issue.

TheSauceMaster
10-12-2004, 04:49 PM
Maybe Ron shouldn't have flown back in and them some of you wouldn't have anything to stress over , from what I understand he just got back to Indy Monday , be happy he was there warming up.

I almost want him to be traded so we can get back to some sort of normal form here , all summer was filled with the constant hounding about Ron and some won't be happy or shut up til he's gone.

First Preseason Game , Meaningless game and Ron doesn't play and people want to be critical and point too things already , what if Ron woulda played and he was Horriable ? some of you will never be happy til Ron get's traded and that's one thing that I am 100% sure of here.

ChicagoJ
10-12-2004, 04:51 PM
Hey, we were desparate to unload that max contract in the first place, weren't we. ;)

Here's to hoping for the best :cheers:

scar
10-12-2004, 05:18 PM
Hey, guys that were at the game, how big is Harrison in comparison to say... Scot Pollard? Does he strike you as the type of player that will come in handy against the likes of Shaquille O'neal? I'm not implying in any way that he's anywhere near the size of Shaq, i'm just saying that a guy that can hold his ground would be nice. I heard that Harrison is pound-for-pound one of the bigger and stronger centers in the league.

scar
10-12-2004, 05:19 PM
And I mean that in the way of speculation. Not saying they have already said he is, but he COULD be.

Hicks
10-12-2004, 05:20 PM
He's definitely bigger than Pollard. Keep dreaming re: Shaq, though. No one exists that can stand their ground to him, so long as they keep allowing post players to dislodge.

ChicagoJ
10-12-2004, 05:22 PM
I almost want him to be traded so we can get back to some sort of normal form here , all summer was filled with the constant hounding about Ron and some won't be happy or shut up til he's gone.

What do you expect the summer to be filled with? Game recaps? Midget tossing expeditions? It's a long, dull time on a Pacers forum. People always sit around and wonder about trades then.

Although, this may have been an enjoyable activity. Perhaps the November gathering we could have a contest?:

http://www.gazette.uwo.ca/2003/April/1/Photos/08_midget.gif


I don't know about that (thank God I'm 6'0", that should save me from getting tossed.) Perhaps, when we go to Perkins, we can all put pancakes on our heads and have a MM look-alike contest.

:bunny:

scar
10-12-2004, 05:26 PM
He's definitely bigger than Pollard. Keep dreaming re: Shaq, though. No one exists that can stand their ground to him, so long as they keep allowing post players to dislodge.

I need to re-word. I know no player exists. I meant, would he be able to take a charge or so from Shaq? Actually, I'm not quite sure what I mean...???

I'm getting excited about him. I love his attitude, his skill.... I'm thinking he's a steal... And like it's already been said, I hope he ends up starting. I like Jeff, but he's not a true center, and he lacks real size. Jermaine said he wanted a big man, well, maybe the big man is already on the team?

Bball
10-12-2004, 07:30 PM
Let me throw some fuel onto the fire of speculation and speak to a point Jay made.

I thought the 'rule' for missing a practice was forfeiting your starting position (or I suppose your place in the rotation)... not missing the entire game?

-Bball

MagicRat
10-12-2004, 08:31 PM
Here's some more info.....

http://home.comcast.net/~magic_rat/PacersWizards.WMV

Anthem
10-12-2004, 08:41 PM
Man, you guys blow my mind.

Here's a hypothetical situation: Artest misses practices as a result of his grandmother's death. Because he had a valid reason for missing the practices (death in the family), no "punishment" was applied. However, because Carlisle is implementing a new offense, he didn't want Artest to play without having been exposed to the "new" offense. Artest showed up for the game knowing that he wouldn't get to play.

Artest, however, is a basketball junkie, and decided to get on the floor as much as possible even though he'd have to sit this game out due to an unfamiliarity with the offense.

Occam's Razor, anyone?

Anthem
10-12-2004, 08:42 PM
In other news, is there actually anything "new" about our "new offense?"

TheSauceMaster
10-12-2004, 08:46 PM
In other news, is there actually anything "new" about our "new offense?"

Yes Sjax Scored 19pts in 22 Mins :devil:

Kegboy
10-12-2004, 09:02 PM
Here's some more info.....

http://home.comcast.net/~magic_rat/PacersWizards.WMV


:bowdown:

Is it just me, or did Sax look a little small. Maybe I should start calling him Alto.

Hicks
10-12-2004, 09:20 PM
Trust me, Sax does NOT look small in person. He looked very tall for a guard. Very tall. Being 6'8" tends to do that when you play G :laugh:

But no, he looks plenty tall out on the court.

SoupIsGood
10-12-2004, 09:25 PM
I like SJax's hair.

Hicks
10-12-2004, 09:29 PM
I do too.

ChicagoJ
10-12-2004, 09:31 PM
Man, you guys blow my mind.

Here's a hypothetical situation: Artest misses practices as a result of his grandmother's death. Because he had a valid reason for missing the practices (death in the family), no "punishment" was applied. However, because Carlisle is implementing a new offense, he didn't want Artest to play without having been exposed to the "new" offense. Artest showed up for the game knowing that he wouldn't get to play.

Artest, however, is a basketball junkie, and decided to get on the floor as much as possible even though he'd have to sit this game out due to an unfamiliarity with the offense.

Occam's Razor, anyone?

I thought that's what I was originally trying to say. I really don't understand this thread, except for the midget toss.

Hicks
10-12-2004, 09:36 PM
I really don't understand this thread, except for the midget toss.

This one quote sums up at least 3/4ths of the conversations we've all had during this offseason.

:laugh:

MagicRat
10-12-2004, 10:56 PM
Here's the end of the game....

http://home.comcast.net/~magic_rat/pwend.mp3

Anthem
10-12-2004, 11:57 PM
Cool... I didn't realize Harrison was the one that missed the last shot before Holcomb. If he'd have stuck that bank shot, just imagine how high we'd be on him right now.

scar
10-13-2004, 03:57 PM
I haven't seen Stephen Jackson's new hair do, does anyone have a pic from the game? Or maybe just discribe it. I'm dying to know.

TheSauceMaster
10-13-2004, 05:22 PM
I haven't seen Stephen Jackson's new hair do, does anyone have a pic from the game? Or maybe just discribe it. I'm dying to know.

I know I seen someone using a avatar of a pic from the game where he is driving to the hole hard , don't remember who it is though :laugh::laugh:

Natston
10-13-2004, 05:38 PM
The avatar you speak of belongs to Jo7Mvp, but you can't really see his hair...

http://www.pacersdigest.com/cgi-bin/bbBoard.cgi?a=useravatarview;uid=574

scar
10-13-2004, 06:05 PM
Looks like the beginning of some dred locks... Stephen Jackson with dreds? :confused:

SoupIsGood
10-13-2004, 09:50 PM
He has got to get the Edge hair goin, before he cut it. That should be a requirement.

MagicRat
10-13-2004, 10:12 PM
http://home.comcast.net/~magic_rat/pw2.WMV

ChicagoJ
10-13-2004, 10:22 PM
Good stuff.

MagicRat
10-13-2004, 10:54 PM
Good stuff.

I think what you meant to say was, "Man, that was good stuff, man."

Or maybe I shouldn't've watched the JJ part more than once, man.

scar
10-14-2004, 01:37 AM
It looks as though Jermaine might push for Harrison to play alot, possibly even start?

Anthem
10-14-2004, 01:42 AM
I don't think anybody's saying "start" until we see a few more games. Besides, the kid's gonna hit the rookie wall, and he's gonna hit it hard. His big accomplishment in this game was playing a quarter without oxygen.

But yeah, he definately looked good out there. I'm (once again) ready to shop Pollard.

TheSauceMaster
10-14-2004, 02:47 AM
Hey did anyone mention SJax scored 19 points in 22 Mins of Play :confused::confused::confused:


:peak:


:zip:

Natston
10-14-2004, 12:02 PM
Hey did anyone mention SJax scored 19 points in 22 Mins of Play :confused::confused::confused:


:peak:


:zip:

Or went 1-6 from downtown, had 3 turnovers and got called for 5 fouls... :p

ChicagoJ
10-14-2004, 12:07 PM
...playing as the first option...

:unimpressed:

The real test of whether Sjax is going to make an impact is how he does when he has to share the ball with JO, Ron, and perhaps Bender.

He proved he can fill it up on a bad team (and the Pacers, minus JO, Ron and JB would be considered a bad team) last year. If he couldn't put up big numbers the other night, we should all be very concerned.

Fool
10-14-2004, 02:56 PM
Now I haven't really paid attention to Rick's appearance for a year or more but is he on Rogaine or something? Last time I knew he had thinning hair in a comb over with a growing bald spot right at the part.

TheSauceMaster
10-14-2004, 03:22 PM
...playing as the first option...

:unimpressed:

The real test of whether Sjax is going to make an impact is how he does when he has to share the ball with JO, Ron, and perhaps Bender.

He proved he can fill it up on a bad team (and the Pacers, minus JO, Ron and JB would be considered a bad team) last year. If he couldn't put up big numbers the other night, we should all be very concerned.


How do you know there won't be a point in the Season where we have a few games of no J.O or Ron ? I think it made me feel alittle more comfortable , 19 points in 22 mins is nothing to be ashamed of and considering he was playing with alot of the 2-3 stringers , maybe he will play better with a starters ..but I can't answer that right now.

Ron will probably play next game , but I remember J.O saying he probably won't play the first 2-3 preseason games probably.

I know it's early and only one game , but I think Sjax is gonna work out better than some are wanting to give credit at this time.