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View Full Version : So Bird and Company really wanted DeJuan Blair over Tyler?



90'sNBARocked
05-04-2011, 06:14 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19665


The Right Pick, After All?

Right up until the final seconds before the Indiana Pacers made their pick in the 2009 NBA Draft their pick was DeJuan Blair. Then, as the last few seconds ticked away and their decision had to be made, they allowed medical reports about Blair's knees to scare them away, and they chose Tyler Hansbrough with the 13th overall pick instead. The Pacers weren't alone, either, as so many teams were scared off by those medical reports concerning Blair that he dropped all the way to the San Antonio Spurs with the 37th overall pick.

Last year it looked like the Pacers had made a huge mistake; after all, Blair appeared in all 82 games for the Spurs, even starting 23 times, while Hansbrough missed all but 29 games as he battled various injuries. Had the Pacers over-analyzed their pick?

Maybe not.

Fast forward another year. Blair fell out of grace late in the season in San Antonio, though injuries have never been an issue. He improved a little across the board on the season, but not remarkably. Meanwhile, Hansbrough benefited from a mid-season coaching change that landed him in the starting lineup, where he would stay for the rest of the season and through the playoffs. He averaged 14.2 points and 6.3 rebounds as a starter and proved he deserves to be the team's starting four going forward.

''The guy is a big-time competitor - big-time,'' Pacers head coach Frank Vogel said during his team's first round series against Chicago. ''I'm glad he's on my team.''

Indeed, Vogel's faith in Hansbrough was one of the reasons he earned the job as interim coach when Jim O'Brien was fired mid-season. Pacers management wanted to see more of Hansbrough, and Vogel was happy to oblige. For his part, Hansbrough's hard work on and off the court kept him in the starting lineup, taking full advantage of his opportunity.

There's no question that DeJuan Blair would have been a solid pick had the Pacers made him the 13th overall selection in 2009. There's also no question that he was easily the steal of that same draft as the 37th overall pick. That said, it may just be that the concerns over Blair's knees, justified or not, pushed the Pacers to make an even better, perhaps even lucky, pick with 13. The Pacers believe Hansbrough is one of their foundational pieces as they look to become a perennial playoff team once again . . .and all indications are that they're absolutely right.

Spirit
05-04-2011, 06:16 PM
Thank God. Blair may be a good player right now, but his knees are going "Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock" every second he's on the court. One bad landing and he is done for.

wintermute
05-04-2011, 06:26 PM
First I've heard of Blair as an option.

I remember reading that Bird wanted Hansbrough, and if he's not there, then Lawson.

Cactus Jax
05-04-2011, 06:34 PM
Blair didn't play much in the postseason for the Spurs, and I don't think it had much to do with injuries.

IndyPacer
05-04-2011, 06:45 PM
First I've heard of Blair as an option.

I remember reading that Bird wanted Hansbrough, and if he's not there, then Lawson.

Agreed. I'm not convinced. I read Bird had a deal in place to get both Hansbrough and Lawson that fell apart in the final minutes. I've never heard anything about him wanting Blair.

KingGeorge
05-04-2011, 06:47 PM
The dude doesn't have an ACL in either knee. Blair is a good player, but it seems almost impossible for him to have a productive, long career. Hansbrough was the right pick.

BringJackBack
05-04-2011, 07:04 PM
Yeah, good thing we got Tyler. Not only is Tyler more healthy, but he is also a better player.

mikeyism
05-04-2011, 07:06 PM
Blair was enough of a defensive liability against Gasol and Zach Randolph where they had to DNP him.

90'sNBARocked
05-04-2011, 07:14 PM
Thank God. Blair may be a good player right now, but his knees are going "Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock" every second he's on the court. One bad landing and he is done for.

I never thought I would say this but

I think Ty is the much more complete, and better player

pacer4ever
05-04-2011, 07:33 PM
Holiday or Lawson was the way to go. Deepest pg draft in some time and that was our need as well.

pwee31
05-04-2011, 07:37 PM
I was happy with the draft. My biggest concern was that Blair would be taken by us. I didn't not like the guy, I just liked Hansbrough better than a lot of players in that draft that would have been available at #13

pwee31
05-04-2011, 07:38 PM
Still haven't changed my sig

Lou Bega
05-04-2011, 09:00 PM
If Lawson did not a get a DUI he would have been in the draft a year earlier. I remember reports of Bird wanting to draft him till the incident. Remember the "Pacers" rep @ that time.

I can't fault Larry in his draft choices. Shawne Williams was not a BUST. Hibbert, Rush, & Hans have been solid picks and PG is considered a steal by many on this board. I still want Patrick Patterson over him.

Lou Bega
05-04-2011, 09:01 PM
Holiday or Lawson was the way to go. Deepest pg draft in some time and that was our need as well.

Man if we could have pulled that alleged deal with the Bulls. Wow Imagine the Pacers getting even Eric Maynor with a later pick.

Trophy
05-04-2011, 09:11 PM
I have been happy with the Tyler selection though it would've been smart to grab Jrue Holiday in a heavy PG draft.

We did get a PG from that draft in DC so we were pretty fortunate there.

SMosley21
05-04-2011, 09:38 PM
I have been happy with the Tyler selection though it would've been smart to grab Jrue Holiday in a heavy PG draft.

We did get a PG from that draft in DC so we were pretty fortunate there.

Leading up to that draft, I was literally praying that we would draft Jrue Holiday. So when we picked Tyler, I was a little let down but not near upset. For about 2 minutes I sat there in Conseco and thought, "damn it! why didn't we go for Holiday? we NEED a point guard and he's going to be awesome." Then I started thinking, "Damn! We just drafted Tyler freakin Hansbrough. That dude dominated NCAA basketball for 4 years. He's gonna be a good pick."

ksuttonjr76
05-04-2011, 10:11 PM
Leading up to that draft, I was literally praying that we would draft Jrue Holiday. So when we picked Tyler, I was a little let down but not near upset. For about 2 minutes I sat there in Conseco and thought, "damn it! why didn't we go for Holiday? we NEED a point guard and he's going to be awesome." Then I started thinking, "Damn! We just drafted Tyler freakin Hansbrough. That dude dominated NCAA basketball for 4 years. He's gonna be a good pick."

Honestly, I thought Tyler Hansbrough was the best pick, but I was leaning towards Blair. I'm not going to lie...the no ACL in both legs would have scared me off too.

JEM
05-04-2011, 10:16 PM
I think Bird really wanted Hansbrough because IMO he sees a little of himself in Tyler.

vnzla81
05-04-2011, 10:44 PM
I knew that Tyler was going to be the pick as soon as Larry said that they needed a player like Foster but with better offense.

Hicks
05-04-2011, 11:21 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19665

Makes sense to me (Tyler versus Blair's knees). I know some people were never convinced the knees would be a problem, but I was not one of those people.

With that said, I disagree that Tyler has proven he's our starting power forward for the foreseeable future. I don't think he is. We need something a lot better, IMO.

With that said, I still think Tyler could improve.

As for the pick being 'lucky', that would only apply had we taken the plunge on Jrue Holiday.

Hicks
05-04-2011, 11:25 PM
Blair was enough of a defensive liability against Gasol and Zach Randolph where they had to DNP him.

Which is a surprise to me because I thought the word on Blair was that he brought toughness, defense, and rebounding.

Hicks
05-04-2011, 11:26 PM
I think Bird really wanted Hansbrough because IMO he sees a little of himself in Tyler.

People like to say that, but I don't see it, myself. They play nothing alike one another.

vnzla81
05-04-2011, 11:56 PM
<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Q8ljQdKmtfo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Haywoode Workman
05-05-2011, 12:03 AM
Holiday or Lawson was the way to go. Deepest pg draft in some time and that was our need as well.

but in the end we got dc (for basically nothing) and hansbrough right? we've "won" the past 2 drafts by a mile in my eyes.

Hoop
05-05-2011, 01:19 AM
Not sure why Blair didn't play much down the stretch or in the playoffs, but he looked like he kept getting fatter ever time I saw him play during the season.

Weight problem, plus bad knees, tick tock.

I feel good about drafting Tyler, not like other teams jumped at Blair in the 1st round.

CableKC
05-05-2011, 01:50 AM
<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Q8ljQdKmtfo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
LOL at the Player Comparisons at the end......the only thing that I can see that Hansbrough and ZaZa have in common is a tendency swing their elbows at eye level when going for Defensive Rebounds.

Will Galen
05-05-2011, 02:40 AM
First I've heard of Blair as an option.

I remember reading that Bird wanted Hansbrough, and if he's not there, then Lawson.

Me too.

I think the title of this thread is incorrect. That article doesn't say Bird wanted Blair.

If I remember right Blair was higher rated than Hans. So the scouts, and most of the front office could have wanted Blair, Bird wanted Hans, but was going along with the majority, then at the last second the majority could have switched to Hans because of Blairs health problems. Or Bird could have chosen to over rule the majority.

I do remember reading that Walsh would ask the others in the war room who they wanted before making his pick. Bird probably does it that way too.

For whatever reason, I'm happy with the Pacers pick of Hans.

BillS
05-05-2011, 10:30 AM
I suspect Blair was on the table but I doubt if it was "right up to the last minute" in anyone's eyes but the article writer.

pacergod2
05-05-2011, 10:40 AM
The deal we were trying to swing with the Bulls was probably to draft Blair until they changed their mind on his medical reports. They used their 26th pick on Taj Gibson to fill the PF spot. They took James Johnson as well who is a SF/PF tweener. There was obviously interest in the PF position and they passed on Blair twice. I think the Bulls were the ones who we would have selected Blair for, but the deal fell through when they went another direction. Just a thought.

JEM
05-05-2011, 10:41 AM
People like to say that, but I don't see it, myself. They play nothing alike one another.

Why do people always assume thats the meaning? It isnt. :rolleyes:

JEM
05-05-2011, 10:45 AM
The deal we were trying to swing with the Bulls was probably to draft Blair until they changed their mind on his medical reports. They used their 26th pick on Taj Gibson to fill the PF spot. They took James Johnson as well who is a SF/PF tweener. There was obviously interest in the PF position and they passed on Blair twice. I think the Bulls were the ones who we would have selected Blair for, but the deal fell through when they went another direction. Just a thought.

There was some talk that the Bulls also wanted Hansbrough.

dgranger17
05-05-2011, 10:47 AM
I remember when Kravitz wrote he wanted Blair, then wrote he didn't want Blair, then wrote we should've taken Blair over Hansbrough. Kravitz reminds me alot of clipper4ever, except that I actually like clipper4ever

ksuttonjr76
05-05-2011, 10:54 AM
Makes sense to me (Tyler versus Blair's knees). I know some people were never convinced the knees would be a problem, but I was not one of those people.

With that said, I disagree that Tyler has proven he's our starting power forward for the foreseeable future. I don't think he is. We need something a lot better, IMO.

With that said, I still think Tyler could improve.

As for the pick being 'lucky', that would only apply had we taken the plunge on Jrue Holiday.

This only Tyler's "2nd year". Your comment can be applied to any starting 5 player in the NBA who wasn't a bonafide superstar coming into the league (John Wall, Blake Griffin, etc).

ksuttonjr76
05-05-2011, 11:10 AM
<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Q8ljQdKmtfo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Wow...people didn't Tyler that much of a chance in the NBA. His potential is Zaza and as 7th or 8th man???? Wow...just wow. I would have (and have given him) 6th man at the minium just based on his energy alone.

Sparhawk
05-05-2011, 11:24 AM
Shocked that a point wasn't even in the discussion. Just really surprised.

Unclebuck
05-05-2011, 11:28 AM
Wasn't T-Bird really high on Blair. I think I remember him being so on draft day.

Please correct me if I am wrong

Justin Tyme
05-05-2011, 11:44 AM
Thank God. Blair may be a good player right now, but his knees are going "Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock" every second he's on the court. One bad landing and he is done for.


I can't disagree, but at the same time I feel that Hans has the same issue with vertigo or whatever it is. I, like most, was holding my breath when Tyler got hit in the ear/head in the playoffs and went down. I'm not sure both aren't an injury away with their existing problems from being out of the NBA. I hope it NEVER happens to either of them.

Justin Tyme
05-05-2011, 11:54 AM
Wasn't T-Bird really high on Blair. I think I remember him being so on draft day.

Please correct me if I am wrong



I really don't remember. The only poster I remember who was a staunch Blair supporter was Seth. I had an issue with his size, and his size proved me out wrong last season. He was a good pick for the 2nd round.

naptownmenace
05-05-2011, 12:00 PM
That ESPN video breakdown was very accurate. They nailed Tyler when they mentioned that he sometimes forces the issue when he's matched up with bigger guys which often results in getting his shot blocked or a traveling call. He doesn't have a bevy of moves in the post and he's not very patient on offense.

Still, I like Tyler. I think finally having a full offseason to workout and work on his game will help him a lot. He was pretty effective without those things and he still has a chip on his shoulder which should keep him motivated. I think it would be interesting to see what he could do next year with an average of 30 minutes per game as opposed to the 22-25 minutes he got most of the season.

ksuttonjr76
05-05-2011, 12:05 PM
That ESPN video breakdown was very accurate. They nailed Tyler when they mentioned that he sometimes forces the issue when he's matched up with bigger guys which often results in getting his shot blocked or a traveling call. He doesn't have a bevy of moves in the post and he's not very patient on offense.

Still, I like Tyler. I think finally having a full offseason to workout and work on his game will help him a lot. He was pretty effective without those things and he still has a chip on his shoulder which should keep him motivated. I think it would be interesting to see what he could do next year with an average of 30 minutes per game as opposed to the 22-25 minutes he got most of the season.

And with a Coach that believes in him...persuming that Vogel comes back.

Kid Minneapolis
05-05-2011, 12:16 PM
Not that I don't think he's a decent player, but I was never in the group of people that thought we made a massive mistake taking Hansbrough over Blair --- even when Blair got off to the better start. Better starts mean absolutely nothing --- Tinsley got off to a better start than Tony Parker in their careers --- see how that worked out in the long run? There's a big lesson to learn there when examining the traits of those two. Physical traits and talent only go so far, you have to have the mental aspects, too, and often that aspect can take you a lot farther than the aforementioned characteristics.

There's certain things you have to look for in a player for long-term decisions like that... people tend to only look short-term. I've always believe Hansbrough had better long-term traits than Blair. People always under-rate determination and drive. Not that Blair doesn't have it, but... there are *few* people in the NBA that I can honestly say has more determination and drive than Hansbrough. His mentality not only helps himself, but completely rubs off on everyone around him... it's an intangible, exponential lift to your entire team. It's difficult to grasp, but you have to examine a player not only "on an island", but also his effect on those around him. Hansbrough is a culture-changer. Those guys are rare. There's a reason why he is doubted at every level and yet wins championships at every level. He doesn't look the part... but he's got the "innards" of a champion. Just like someone else in this organization.

wintermute
05-05-2011, 12:43 PM
Wasn't T-Bird really high on Blair. I think I remember him being so on draft day.

Please correct me if I am wrong

Not really. Here's TBird's Blair thread

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=47128

No one on that thread seemed very high on Blair (the common complaint was lack of quickness), not even Seth. Seth's later beef I think was that Blair dropped all the way to the second round and that we didn't try to get him because we already had Hans.

I do remember TBird being high on James Johnson, who he compared to David West. That comparison isn't looking very good so far :blush:

Hicks
05-05-2011, 12:48 PM
Why do people always assume thats the meaning? It isnt. :rolleyes:

They play nothing alike. Bird was an extremely superior NBA player. Tyler plays with an almost unique level of energy that I don't recall Bird being known for (not that he didn't play hard). They didn't go to similar colleges.

What's left for him to see in Tyler?

PR07
05-05-2011, 01:06 PM
At this time, I'm glad we took Tyler, but if we were that torn on Blair, why didn't we try trading for another pick later in the first round/early round 2? Blair would bring some things to our frontcourt we're lacking: bulk, strength, rebounding, and toughness.

90'sNBARocked
05-05-2011, 02:26 PM
Me too.

I think the title of this thread is incorrect. That article doesn't say Bird wanted Blair.

If I remember right Blair was higher rated than Hans. So the scouts, and most of the front office could have wanted Blair, Bird wanted Hans, but was going along with the majority, then at the last second the majority could have switched to Hans because of Blairs health problems. Or Bird could have chosen to over rule the majority.

I do remember reading that Walsh would ask the others in the war room who they wanted before making his pick. Bird probably does it that way too.

For whatever reason, I'm happy with the Pacers pick of Hans.




Right up until the final seconds before the Indiana Pacers made their pick in the 2009 NBA Draft their pick was DeJuan Blair. Then, as the last few seconds ticked away and their decision had to be made, they allowed medical reports about Blair's knees to scare them away, and they chose Tyler Hansbrough with the 13th overall pick instead.

Whie it doesnt specifically say Bird by name it says the Pacers were set to take Blair until the last minute. Since Bird was the GM , I would only assume he was on board with the pick

JEM
05-05-2011, 02:41 PM
At this time, I'm glad we took Tyler, but if we were that torn on Blair, why didn't we try trading for another pick later in the first round/early round 2? Blair would bring some things to our frontcourt we're lacking: bulk, strength, rebounding, and toughness.

Really? I dont think Blair brings any of that.

Sure he is stout and probably strong but I dont view him as being tough nor anything more than a decent rebounder. He averaged 7 boards a game this past season which is what Hansbrough averaged when he finally got time on the court.

Spirit
05-05-2011, 09:28 PM
Holiday or Lawson was the way to go. Deepest pg draft in some time and that was our need as well.

Um.. no lol. I rarely disagree with you, but those players to me are glorified backups, and that was from from a deep pg draft.

pacer4ever
05-05-2011, 09:48 PM
Um.. no lol. I rarely disagree with you, but those players to me are glorified backups, and that was from from a deep pg draft.

Both of thoes are starters and even if Holiday would have busted he is still a great defender and big. I mean Lawson starts over Felton i think. I dont think they will ever be stars but they were the way to go that was our biggest need and they were good value also. I would have chosen Holiday just based on size. Undersized PF's are easier to find than big pgs at least i think so.

Naptown_Seth
05-07-2011, 01:46 AM
Thank God. Blair may be a good player right now, but his knees are going "Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock" every second he's on the court. One bad landing and he is done for.
Yes, just like Hines Ward.

Epic fail from a NEVER SEEN BEFORE situation by a non-doctor. The doctors NEVER said "when NBA players develop a knee structure without an ACL they always end up injured within a few years". How do I know this?

BECAUSE IT'S NEVER HAPPENED. NEVER. Not one player redeveloped a virtually new knee structure post-ACL tissue LOSS (not ripped apart, but degenerated away post-injury while the leg muscles/tissue grew in compensation) and then went on to play a full NCAA year and a complete 82 game rookie year at all, let alone do that and then see his legs fall apart.

Hines Ward, the Steelers HOF WR has this EXACT SAME SITUATION in one leg. He fell in his draft because teams had concerns identical to what NBA teams thought with Blair. That's football, the sissy touchy-feely game in which no ACL's are every violently hit or used on a regular basis to spint on turf over and over running routes, let alone driving through a power block downfield to be a Super Bowl hero.

Remember how Ward's career was cut insanely short when his non-ACL knee blew apart? Oh, we're still waiting on that to happen? But that's IMPOSSIBLE, medical science said so. Well, not really.


What the docs have said is "we just don't know, it's unprecedented (except for Hines Ward), but it FEELS like it should end up being a problem somehow...I mean people don't play basketball without ACLs....well other than this Blair kid that just did a full NCAA season without them."

The entire medical community basically had to go :whoknows:

And then Blair went out and was the only Spur to play all 82 games. Just a teensy, tiny bit different than "certain to have knee/leg problems."

He very well might end up with a career ending leg injury, just like tons of ACL having players get all the time. One thing he won't do - tear his ACL.




All of this is moot because the Pacers easily could have traded down and drafted both Holiday (better starter than DC and this was true draft night also) AND Blair.

Then instead of using Troy to get DC you use Troy to get a different piece. Now you have your young PG, your young PF and whatever else you get with Troy. That math is easy, getting more for the same cost is smarter, period.



No one on that thread seemed very high on Blair (the common complaint was lack of quickness), not even Seth.This is true. I was more 100% against Tyler than pro-Blair because TH had no POWER rebounding (hustle is not power), was not a great power defender (even now he relies on lateral quicks and quick hands to deal with Boozer types), was clearly as undersized at PF as Blair, and we needed a tough guy rather than just a worker.

I was more down on Blair and PIT in general earlier in the year, and someone tried to call me on this with no regard to my comments later in the year after more scouting. My opinion changed from Blair being lazy to Blair trying to avoid foul troubles because the Panthers leaned so heavily on him. I started to notice that he was coasting more to avoid fouls than having a lack of will.

The switch for my opinion came when I saw him leverage the much taller Thabeet right out of a rebound at the rim. Just timed it, used his hips and stole his spot without fouling. It was brilliant. I started to realize that Blair was a master rebounder much like Kevin Love. They both used technique that easily overcame any vert limits or height problems.

Plus Blair has great reach.

Blair is also like Love in that he's pretty good about staying down on ball fakes which makes him a solid defender despite not being a vertical shot block threat.



Tyler proved me wrong when he showed that his crazy, ugly hustling offense could draw fouls even as a rookie. And then out of nowhere he appeared to suddenly become a killer open jump shooter. That gave him value I didn't think he had which changed my opinion on him.

I'm fine with either as a Pacer, but as I said above I'd much rather have had Jrue because he was such a good PnR PG (far better than DC at UCLA) and a much better defender. Missed opportunity. Oh well.

Naptown_Seth
05-07-2011, 02:01 AM
Which is a surprise to me because I thought the word on Blair was that he brought toughness, defense, and rebounding.
The player discussion VNZLA posted nails both players very well, and you'll note that Blair is good when he's in position but struggles with lateral movement defense.

Plus with ZBo especially he plays with great length in spite of contact. Blair can body you which normally is disruptive, but we've been seeing Zack do a lot of scoring after contact almost to the point that he appears to be more comfortable shooting after contact.

Blair is physical and easily holds his floor space, you don't just walk over him. But you can score over him or go by him if you are in PnR or just a more SF scoring capable style of PF.


Blair is also just as inconsistent as Tyler. He has monster nights followed by less than modest outings.

rm1369
05-07-2011, 12:18 PM
Jrue Holiday is the player that should have been drafted. Tyler and Collison have / will show to be good backups and very mediocre starters. The team will always be looking for upgrades at those positions. Holiday would have solidified one of them. A defensive backcourt of Holiday and PG? That would be something to get excited about!

ksuttonjr76
05-07-2011, 05:11 PM
Jrue Holiday is the player that should have been drafted. Tyler and Collison have / will show to be good backups and very mediocre starters. The team will always be looking for upgrades at those positions. Holiday would have solidified one of them. A defensive backcourt of Holiday and PG? That would be something to get excited about!

Based on what??? Collison is posting similar stats to Holiday while playing 6 minutes less.

pacer4ever
05-07-2011, 05:44 PM
Based on what??? Collison is posting similar stats to Holiday while playing 6 minutes less.

DEFENSE (clap clap clap)

rm1369
05-07-2011, 09:52 PM
Based on what??? Collison is posting similar stats to Holiday while playing 6 minutes less.

As Pacer4ever said - Defense! There is no comparing the two on that side of the court. Jrue is also three years younger and 4" taller than Collison.

I know that I'll never be happy with a 6' 180 lbs ( I think those are generous numbers) starting PG that is weak defensively. Especially considering he also isn't a great (or even good) floor general.

PR07
05-09-2011, 11:20 AM
Yeah, right now, it looks like Holliday should've been the pick BUT it's not like the Pacers struck out either. They have a good, but not great player in Hansbrough it appears.

pacer4ever
05-09-2011, 12:23 PM
As Pacer4ever said - Defense! There is no comparing the two on that side of the court. Jrue is also three years younger and 4" taller than Collison.

I know that I'll never be happy with a 6' 180 lbs ( I think those are generous numbers) starting PG that is weak defensively. Especially considering he also isn't a great (or even good) floor general.

and he has some of the worst bball IQ ive ever seen.

Sookie
05-09-2011, 01:08 PM
and he has some of the worst bball IQ ive ever seen.

I really don't think he's that bad for a young guy.

Maybe I've just watched the Uconn men so long I have a different perspective on what a dumb basketball player looks like. :laugh:

BringJackBack
05-09-2011, 03:20 PM
and he has some of the worst bball IQ ive ever seen.

No way. It's way, way overblown around here. Any average watcher of this team would perhaps come to the conclusion that Darren is a scoring point guard, but bad basketball IQ?

If he has some of the lowest basketball IQ you've ever seen than so do 70% of NBA players.

pacer4ever
05-09-2011, 03:51 PM
No way. It's way, way overblown around here. Any average watcher of this team would perhaps come to the conclusion that Darren is a scoring point guard, but bad basketball IQ?

If he has some of the lowest basketball IQ you've ever seen than so do 70% of NBA players.

I saw a number of times he would make a stupid decsion and make stupid fouls at end of qters. when he shouldnt even had been near the ball. He has a poor IQ for a pg.

BringJackBack
05-09-2011, 03:53 PM
Everybody does those things. They're called mistakes.

pacer4ever
05-09-2011, 03:56 PM
Everybody does those things. They're called mistakes.

No he makes mental mistakes there is a differnce between a physical mistake and a mental mistake. Mental mistakes drive coaches crazy coaches can handle physcial mistakes but mental ones are tuff to swallow.