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Hicks
05-03-2011, 10:35 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_17978868

By Chris Dempsey
The Denver Post



On the table in front of Nene are two choices: Take the last year of his contract, which would keep him with the Nuggets, or opt out of his contract, which could make him a former member of the Nuggets.

While no final decision has been made, Nene said Monday he is strongly considering opting out of the final season of his six-year, $60 million contract, which would pay him $12 million, and testing the free-agent market.

After nine seasons in the NBA, Nene has full control of his future and it could take hard work for the Nuggets to make him happy enough to return.

"I've been here for nine years," said Nene, 28. "If that doesn't work how you want it, you need to sit down and evaluate everything and see what you can do."

The overarching issues in this situation are his level of happiness with the Nuggets and, ultimately, his value on the open market.

Players similar to him — Utah's Al Jefferson, Chicago's Carlos Boozer and Portland's LaMarcus Aldridge — will make $11 million to $14 million next season. The NBA's new collective bargaining agreement will have the final say about what the market can offer Nene, but he stands to command big dollars.

Nuggets executives Masai Ujiri and Josh Kroenke have said they want Nene back, but will have to ask themselves how high they want to go.

But it's not all about the next contract for Nene. There is a large component of appreciation that Nene says is missing, and that's proving to be equally as important as the dollars.

"If I play happy, if I enjoy the game, my game improves," Nene said. "I did my best for the team, for the city. I tried to do my best for the fans. But the (Nuggets) need to understand you need to see the return on the other side, or you need to look for it. You need to look for it sometimes.

"They don't realize all of the sacrifices I made. When you don't feel appreciated, it's hard."

During his career in Denver, Nene has had to battle back from major injuries and ailments: a torn ACL in his right knee in the 2005-06 season opener, a torn ulnar collateral ligament in his left thumb in November 2007 and a bout with testicular cancer in January 2008.

Nene made it through and has been a durable player the past three seasons, playing no fewer than 75 games.

This season, Nene set a career high in field-goal percentage (.615). The 6-foot-11 center from Brazil was near career highs in points (averaging 14.5), free-throw percentage (.711) and rebounds (averaging 7.6).

"I'm very professional. I do my best and I want the team to do their best too — look good, have the best players they can have, be smart," Nene said.

And he intends to continue operating in that fashion whether it's with the Nuggets or another team.

"Nine years you give your best to represent the Denver Nuggets name," Nene said. "There's not many players that take that seriously, that name. I did because I want to be here. I want to retire here. But God says you know your present, but your future is in his hands."



I certainly hope he does! And if so, we need to go after him big time. If you're going to overpay anyone this summer, this is the guy. This is that Player X we used to talk about. The guy who is a good fit next to Roy AND Tyler.

We can pay as much as anyone for this guy, and this franchise is known for treating its players like angels. Oh, and there's the part where he's a huge, huge missing piece for us towards becoming a contender.

Admittedly, his stats aren't as good as I thought they were, but I still think he's a great fit here. Big, skilled, athletic, a finisher. Not the rebounder I thought he was, but not terrible.

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PacerPride33
05-03-2011, 10:42 AM
Made my morning! Pacers will be in GREAT position to sign him, come on Larry Legend!!!!!

itzryan07
05-03-2011, 10:50 AM
Nene!!!!!!

HC
05-03-2011, 11:02 AM
I think he would be a nice addition, but by player X are you saying that you think he makes us a contender? I don't know if he makes us that much better, but he would obvioulsy help.

vnzla81
05-03-2011, 11:05 AM
Pacers need to get him and in case he doesn't fit with Roy, send Roy to the bench, we need a consistent starting center ASAP.

Hicks
05-03-2011, 11:07 AM
Going by this:

http://www.82games.com/1011/10DEN17.HTM

He makes their offense better, but he makes their defense a lot better.

Rebounding-wise, he's apparently going to hurt you on offense, but help you scoop up more of them on defense. Not ideal, but we certainly could have used more help with defensive boards against the Bulls.

Hicks
05-03-2011, 11:09 AM
I think he would be a nice addition, but by player X are you saying that you think he makes us a contender? I don't know if he makes us that much better, but he would obvioulsy help.

Player X is the mysterious power forward that used to get discussed a year, two years, ago who would serve as a compliment to both Roy Hibbert and also to Tyler Hansbrough.

You start Nene and Roy, then Roy sits, Tyler comes in, and Nene is the center.

vnzla81
05-03-2011, 11:11 AM
Player X is the mysterious power forward that used to get discussed a year, two years, ago who would serve as a compliment to both Roy Hibbert and also to Tyler Hansbrough.

You start Nene and Roy, then Roy sits, Tyler comes in, and Nene is the center.

I can live with that :signit:

DemonHunter1105
05-03-2011, 11:18 AM
Holy crap, I hope we go HARD after him.

If all we did this summer is sign him I would be on Cloud 9.

ballism
05-03-2011, 11:18 AM
I certainly hope he does! And if so, we need to go after him big time. If you're going to overpay anyone this summer, this is the guy. This is that Player X we used to talk about. The guy who is a good fit next to Roy AND Tyler.

We can pay as much as anyone for this guy, and this franchise is known for treating its players like angels. Oh, and there's the part where he's a huge, huge missing piece for us towards becoming a contender.

Admittedly, his stats aren't as good as I thought they were, but I still think he's a great fit here. Big, skilled, athletic, a finisher. Not the rebounder I thought he was, but not terrible.



My issue with Nene is inconsistent defensive effort. Given Hibbert's defensive issues, it's a problem. Can Vogel do what George Karl could not and keep Nene engaged at all times? If this was Horford or Noah, I'd be exstatic about pursuing him. Nene is a good rotation guy with painfull flaws that also happen to be Hibbert's flaws.

ksuttonjr76
05-03-2011, 11:18 AM
Interesting...I don't know why I thought his stats were better than that.

Gamble1
05-03-2011, 11:23 AM
The way I look at it and I posted it before Nene will take about 15 million per year. Thats a lot of money for one guy and I am reluctant to offer him that type of money so we can have a pf/c "fit" with the team.

What would be a better overall team. Offer Nene 15 million and hopefully grab Mayo with our draft pick or offer Dalembert 8 to 10 mill/year and offer Crawford 8-10 mill/year.

To me Crawford trumps Mayo by a lot and Dalembert is pretty close to Nene.

Hicks
05-03-2011, 11:26 AM
I don't view Dalembert as someone who plays at the 4, and I also don't think he's nearly the threat offensively Nene is. I'd take the former combo every time.

Unclebuck
05-03-2011, 11:30 AM
What is the scenerio as to why he would want to come here. Money OK, but do we know the Nuggets aren't going to pay him as much as we would?

DemonHunter1105
05-03-2011, 11:31 AM
I watched Dalembert some when he was in Philly I think, and tried to get behind the guy. I just don't think he is that good. I would easily overpay for Nene before giving Dalembert that kind of money.

If anything, I would rather just take a flier on a young C in the draft or bring in a Euro guy(Stanko) than sign Dalembert.

DemonHunter1105
05-03-2011, 11:35 AM
What is the scenerio as to why he would want to come here. Money OK, but do we know the Nuggets aren't going to pay him as much as we would?

Well he feels under-appreciated in Denver. I know we would pitch it to him like he would be a major part of our team, and he most certainly would be.

The fan support would be pretty strong too I would think. I already like him as a player and his name is Nene which is unique/easily marketable. I could easily see him becoming a fan favorite for his thunderous one handed jams and energetic play.

vnzla81
05-03-2011, 11:35 AM
What is the scenerio as to why he would want to come here. Money OK, but do we know the Nuggets aren't going to pay him as much as we would?

No we don't know, that is the reason why teams send an offer to see if the other team match.
I have a feeling that Denver is going to start going young and wouldn't like to pay to much for a guy that is 28, I would expect them to ask for Roy also(in a sign and trade)

Gamble1
05-03-2011, 11:37 AM
I don't view Dalembert as someone who plays at the 4, and I also don't think he's nearly the threat offensively Nene is. I'd take the former combo every time.
I don't think either are much of a threat offensively. I think Dalembert could play pf and center. He similar in height and weight to Nene and he would be a better rebounder and shot blocker.

I would really like a big line up that we dominate the paint with but I don't want to sacrafice almost all the capspace to do it. For sure Bird will go after Mayo and if he does he will want to resign him which will be around 7 million per year or more.

naptownmenace
05-03-2011, 11:38 AM
The way I look at it and I posted it before Nene will take about 15 million per year. Thats a lot of money for one guy and I am reluctant to offer him that type of money so we can have a pf/c "fit" with the team.

What would be a better overall team. Offer Nene 15 million and hopefully grab Mayo with our draft pick or offer Dalembert 8 to 10 mill/year and offer Crawford 8-10 mill/year.

To me Crawford trumps Mayo by a lot and Dalembert is pretty close to Nene.

Sam Dalembert is a bum, IMHO. Seriously, he is an underachiever with little to no offensive game, and he has a poor work ethic.

He was kicked off the Canadian National team because of his attitude a few years back and he reportedly had problems with 2 different coaches in Philly because he doesn't like to practice.

Although he's not the rebounder Dalembert is, Nene is a much better player. If you're the opposing team, you have to include him as a player you have to stop in your gameplan. He's a very good team defender as well and I think if he had the opportunity to play more minutes at PF he would be even more effective. The Pacers can give him that opportunity.


I agree that Jamal Crawford would be much better for the Pacers (he's the #1 free agent I would love them to sign) but as Atlanta continues to compete and win, it's going to be harder to pull him away from the Hawks.

Jared Sullinger
05-03-2011, 11:43 AM
Here's (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=hilarne01&y1=2011&p2=hibbero01&y2=2011&p3=hansbty01&y3=2011&p4=mcrobjo01&y4=2011&p5=fosteje01&y5=2011) Nene's production compared to the production of our other bigs.

For those who care about this sort of thing, Nene had the 26th best PER (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics) in the league this past season, 5th best amongst centers.

Gamble1
05-03-2011, 11:54 AM
Sam Dalembert is a bum, IMHO. Seriously, he is an underachiever with little to no offensive game, and he has a poor work ethic.

He was kicked off the Canadian National team because of his attitude a few years back and he reportedly had problems with 2 different coaches in Philly because he doesn't like to practice.

Although he's not the rebounder Dalembert is, Nene is a much better player. If you're the opposing team, you have to include him as a player you have to stop in your gameplan. He's a very good team defender as well and I think if he had the opportunity to play more minutes at PF he would be even more effective. The Pacers can give him that opportunity.


I agree that Jamal Crawford would be much better for the Pacers (he's the #1 free agent I would love them to sign) but as Atlanta continues to compete and win, it's going to be harder to pull him away from the Hawks.
I highly doubt the Hawks resign Crawford. It would put them around 80 million in team salary which is very step for Atlanta.

We are just going to have to disagree with Dalembert. Nene's is not a sure lock for the money and I am not even sure he the pf/c every one is making him out to be. The guy may be good but in my mind he isn't 15 million per year and the best player on your team good.

PR07
05-03-2011, 12:07 PM
I think Nene would be a good fit. It's all about the price though.

Also, no thanks on Dalembert. This frontline needs to get bulkier and stronger on the frontline, not skinnier and more frail. Besides blocking shots, what would Dalembert give us that we really need?

PaceBalls
05-03-2011, 12:11 PM
He is perfect for what we need. He will be one of the oldest players, but I think he can give five solid years at least.

From a basketball standpoint, I think he would look at our team as a good opportunity. He would be THE man, or at least one of the top guys. We have a young team with tons of potential where he could be the guy who pushes us beyond mediocrity into good and dangerous.

The downside is how cold it gets in winter time... and he is from Brazil, but heck, he has been playing in Denver for the last 9 years, so he is probably used to it by now.

We need our guys like Danny, Roy, DC and Paul talking to people like Nene, or whoever else we are trying to get, and getting them excited about the future of the Indiana Pacers. I think the future looks very bright, if we can just get one or two more pieces.

naptownmenace
05-03-2011, 12:15 PM
I highly doubt the Hawks resign Crawford. It would put them around 80 million in team salary which is very step for Atlanta.

We are just going to have to disagree with Dalembert. Nene's is not a sure lock for the money and I am not even sure he the pf/c every one is making him out to be. The guy may be good but in my mind he isn't 15 million per year and the best player on your team good.

If the Hawks don't re-sign Crawford and the Pacers do, I'll be dancing for joy. I've wanted Jamal Crawford on the Pacers since he was in Chicago. He just plays so well in the playoffs and he can be a catch-and-shoot scorer or create his own shot off the dribble and guys like that are hard to find.

No matter where Nene goes, he won't get a contract starting anywhere north of 12 million. It might eventually grow to 15 million by year 3 but I would expect him to get a deal like Noah and Horford got. He's worth as much as Horford especially. Big men come at a premium price.

vnzla81
05-03-2011, 12:22 PM
I highly doubt the Hawks resign Crawford. It would put them around 80 million in team salary which is very step for Atlanta.

We are just going to have to disagree with Dalembert. Nene's is not a sure lock for the money and I am not even sure he the pf/c every one is making him out to be. The guy may be good but in my mind he isn't 15 million per year and the best player on your team good.

I am sorry but aren't you the same guy that keeps pushing for us to sign Dwest for close to that kind of money even after he got hurt?

Hicks
05-03-2011, 12:22 PM
I don't think either are much of a threat offensively. I think Dalembert could play pf and center. He similar in height and weight to Nene and he would be a better rebounder and shot blocker.

I would really like a big line up that we dominate the paint with but I don't want to sacrafice almost all the capspace to do it. For sure Bird will go after Mayo and if he does he will want to resign him which will be around 7 million per year or more.

I would be stunned if Mayo gets 7 a year.

CooperManning
05-03-2011, 12:27 PM
For those that need convincing on Nene:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/04/nene-is-an-elite-player/

Gamble1
05-03-2011, 12:27 PM
I am sorry but aren't you the same guy that keeps pushing for us to sign Dwest for close to that kind of money even after he got hurt?
Quote it then.... I do believe I "ask" the board if we should even consider Dwest after his injury. Preinjury for sure i would give Dwest 13 mill per year.

Nene is a good player don't get me wrong but I am not sold that he is 15 million dollars good and I don't think I put Dwest as a 15 million dollar per year player either. Maybe I was off my rocker one night but I hgihly doubt you can pull up any post of mine where I said Dwest was worth 15 million dollars.

wintermute
05-03-2011, 12:30 PM
Here's (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=hilarne01&y1=2011&p2=hibbero01&y2=2011&p3=hansbty01&y3=2011&p4=mcrobjo01&y4=2011&p5=fosteje01&y5=2011) Nene's production compared to the production of our other bigs.


Hey, that's a nice feature. Didn't know about that, thanks.

Looking at those numbers, Nene's high efficiency, low usage offense seems to be exactly what we need in the starting lineup. His rebounding numbers leave a lot to be desired though. Looking at reb%, he's a bit worse than Hibbert and far worse than Foster. And his orb% is the worst of the group, despite having the best combination of size and athleticism. Have to say, his assist, steals, and FTA numbers are very nice for a big man.

For reference, I did a comparison for other potential big man targets as well, here (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=hilarne01&y1=2011&p2=chandty01&y2=2011&p3=dalemsa01&y3=2011&p4=varejan01&y4=2011).

I think Chandler is still my top target (offensive efficiency + great rebounding), but his injury history is very concerning. On the other hand, I think we could get him for cheaper. With Nene, offense would obviously not be a problem, but rebounding would be. Have to hope that Hibbert continues to improve here.

OakMoses
05-03-2011, 12:31 PM
I don't know if he'd seriously consider coming here. I don't know if he's worth $12-14 million per year.

I do believe, however, that he and Varejao are the only big guys we'll be able to make a run at that can play both positions better than both of the guys we already have. I think Nene is a lot better than Varejao..

We need to add a 30+ mpg big to the roster this summer.

For the record, if we got Nene, I'd probably start him alongside Roy. If Roy doesn't establish himself in the first 5 minutes, then I bring in Tyler. Roy and Tyler are both high usage guys who do not fit that well together. We've got to bench one of them, and I'm not sure Roy can mentally handle coming off the bench.

vnzla81
05-03-2011, 12:31 PM
Quote it then.... I do believe I "ask" the board if we should even consider Dwest after his injury. Preinjury for sure i would give Dwest 13 mill per year.

Nene is a good player don't get me wrong but I am not sold that he is 15 million dollars good and I don't think I put Dwest as a 15 million dollar per year player either. Maybe I was off my rocker one night but I hgihly doubt you can pull up any post of mine where I said Dwest was worth 15 million dollars.

13, 15, the difference is only 2mil.

Gamble1
05-03-2011, 12:34 PM
I would be stunned if Mayo gets 7 a year.
On this current team playing 30 minutes a game I think he could easily play himself into the 7 million dollar per year range. Production wise he was doing that before this year.

Edit: Also look at Birds fixation on him.. If Bird stays the man in charge he would lock Mayo up for 7 million per year.

Pacerfan
05-03-2011, 12:38 PM
He is perfect for what we need. He will be one of the oldest players, but I think he can give five solid years at least.

From a basketball standpoint, I think he would look at our team as a good opportunity. He would be THE man, or at least one of the top guys. We have a young team with tons of potential where he could be the guy who pushes us beyond mediocrity into good and dangerous.

The downside is how cold it gets in winter time... and he is from Brazil, but heck, he has been playing in Denver for the last 9 years, so he is probably used to it by now.

We need our guys like Danny, Roy, DC and Paul talking to people like Nene, or whoever else we are trying to get, and getting them excited about the future of the Indiana Pacers. I think the future looks very bright, if we can just get one or two more pieces.


I think he would be a great fit with out team. Those guys can talk to him but so can Dahntay. I wonder if him and Dahntay were good friends when they were both in Denver? I know Dahntay's a pretty friendly person... "soo friend to friend... you should think about coming to the Pacers"

wintermute
05-03-2011, 12:38 PM
No matter where Nene goes, he won't get a contract starting anywhere north of 12 million. It might eventually grow to 15 million by year 3 but I would expect him to get a deal like Noah and Horford got. He's worth as much as Horford especially. Big men come at a premium price.

In 2006, the Bulls signed Ben Wallace to a 4 year $60m contract. No one on the Bulls thought he would be their best player. But they offered the money to him anyway because they thought they were on the cusp.

For the Pacers, it would have to be a similar situation. If we don't overpay, Nene will simply stay with the Nuggets. If we do, well hopefully it works out better than it did for the Bulls.

Gamble1
05-03-2011, 12:39 PM
13, 15, the difference is only 2mil.
Are you following the conversation here...:)

Preinjury yes.... Postinjury no....

Would I pay 13 million for Nene? Yes, and so would the Nuggets so what do you think he would chose? Pacers team or the Nuggets..

Overpaying for a guy even if its 2 million a year does matter to me. Its how guys like Jamison become hard to move and end up hurting your team for the final 2 years of their contract. See also Richard Hamilton

docpaul
05-03-2011, 12:46 PM
Hey, that's a nice feature. Didn't know about that, thanks.

Looking at those numbers, Nene's high efficiency, low usage offense seems to be exactly what we need in the starting lineup. His rebounding numbers leave a lot to be desired though. Looking at reb%, he's a bit worse than Hibbert and far worse than Foster. And his orb% is the worst of the group, despite having the best combination of size and athleticism. Have to say, his assist, steals, and FTA numbers are very nice for a big man.

For reference, I did a comparison for other potential big man targets as well, here (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=hilarne01&y1=2011&p2=chandty01&y2=2011&p3=dalemsa01&y3=2011&p4=varejan01&y4=2011).

I think Chandler is still my top target (offensive efficiency + great rebounding), but his injury history is very concerning. On the other hand, I think we could get him for cheaper. With Nene, offense would obviously not be a problem, but rebounding would be. Have to hope that Hibbert continues to improve here.

When looking at the per36 numbers, I walked away thinking that Hibbert is a less efficient version of Nene, today.... surprisingly. They only meaningfully differ in FG%.

Does the team really want to pay $15m/year for this? :) There's no question that Hibbert could improve his touch, especially noticing how a lot of his challenges relate to his mechanics in the post. Hell, Nene started as a 50% shooter:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hilarne01.html

Hicks
05-03-2011, 12:48 PM
Having quality in the front court is so important. Especially if you don't have an elite perimeter guy. Look at Memphis right now. I'm not saying this would be like Memphis, but I am saying the more size and quality we have in the frontcourt, the better. That's why I'm so bullish on getting a guy like Nene, or even Okafor.

Gamble1
05-03-2011, 12:55 PM
shots, what would Dalembert give us that we really need?
Obviously I would want Nene over Dalembert for the right price but comparing per 36 min production Dalemberts averages 12 pnt, 12 rbd, 2.2 blks. While Nene averages 17 pnts, 9 rbd, 1 bks.

vnzla81
05-03-2011, 12:56 PM
Are you following the conversation here...:)

Preinjury yes.... Postinjury no....

Would I pay 13 million for Nene? Yes, and so would the Nuggets so what do you think he would chose? Pacers team or the Nuggets..

Overpaying for a guy even if its 2 million a year does matter to me. Its how guys like Jamison become hard to move and end up hurting your team for the final 2 years of their contract. See also Richard Hamilton

You keep making my point, if you were willing to pay 13mil for an undersize PF why no pay 2 more mil for a guy that is way better and is also big enough to play PF/C?

Will Galen
05-03-2011, 12:56 PM
Hey, that's a nice feature. Didn't know about that, thanks.

Looking at those numbers, Nene's high efficiency, low usage offense seems to be exactly what we need in the starting lineup. His rebounding numbers leave a lot to be desired though. Looking at reb%, he's a bit worse than Hibbert and far worse than Foster. And his orb% is the worst of the group, despite having the best combination of size and athleticism. Have to say, his assist, steals, and FTA numbers are very nice for a big man.

For reference, I did a comparison for other potential big man targets as well, here (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=hilarne01&y1=2011&p2=chandty01&y2=2011&p3=dalemsa01&y3=2011&p4=varejan01&y4=2011).

I think Chandler is still my top target (offensive efficiency + great rebounding), but his injury history is very concerning. On the other hand, I think we could get him for cheaper. With Nene, offense would obviously not be a problem, but rebounding would be. Have to hope that Hibbert continues to improve here.

I like them and their numbers but I can't see any reasonable scenarios where we could get Chandler or Varejao. I don't see their teams giving them up unless we make it a no brainer and overpay. Nene looks like the only real option and we would likely have to overpay to get him.

Moving down in the draft looks like a more likely option.

docpaul
05-03-2011, 01:03 PM
Having quality in the front court is so important. Especially if you don't have an elite perimeter guy. Look at Memphis right now. I'm not saying this would be like Memphis, but I am saying the more size and quality we have in the frontcourt, the better. That's why I'm so bullish on getting a guy like Nene, or even Okafor.

There's no question in my mind that Bird wants to see more of an inside-out game from this team going forward. I think our deficiencies there were glaringly obvious in the Bulls series. Even our bigs prefer a mid-range game. :)

I'd submit that we could find these players just as easily in the draft. Look at Ed Davis' production this year or Marc Gasol. Hell, even someone languishing on the wrong team, like David Lee. All three of these guys have the inside game that'd complement Hibbert, IMO. All could be had for a proportionally much better value.

Gamble1
05-03-2011, 01:10 PM
You keep making my point, if you were willing to pay 13mil for an undersize PF why no pay 2 more mil for a guy that is way better and is also big enough to play PF/C?
First off its your opinion that he is WAY better than David West not mine. David brings a different game which I think works well with Collison. Nene is different to me and would bring positional flexibility but his production is not something that makes me say, "hey he's worth 15 million dollars".

IF he does become a Pacer I will be happy but I won't be blind to the fact that he could end up hurting the Pacers salary cap flexibility latter down the road. See also Boozer if anyone wants more examples the NBA is full of them.

CableKC
05-03-2011, 01:12 PM
What is the scenerio as to why he would want to come here. Money OK, but do we know the Nuggets aren't going to pay him as much as we would?
We don't....but as Hicks said....if we are going to overpay a Player.....Nene would be one of the few that we should try to overpay. Even if the Nuggets have every intention of matching....make an offer and force the Nuggets to the table.

We may not have a chance.....not only do I want to try....I want to at least make a very good run at him.

dohman
05-03-2011, 01:14 PM
I have never really seen him play. I can only go by what people say and his numbers.

How good is he really defensivly? Is he a GAME changer. Will he take 5 - 10 points off the oppositions score every night?

If not then I would not pay the money for him. At 14 ppg we can easily get the production from tyler next season. Tyler need a offseason to work on his jump shot. he didnt have one last summer or the summer before that. He also needs a training camp under the new coach whoever it may be.

I see tylers numbers being closer to 16ppg next season. But we all know his defense is lacking. So if nene is going to take the points off the board then I say go for him. Otherwise save our money sign crawford and use the rest for the next summer.

PacerPride33
05-03-2011, 01:24 PM
Nene is the missing piece this team needs. We have been looking for an above average PF and Nene fits that perfectly. He is our best option that is realistic this summer in gettting that PF. We aren't going to get a Josh Smith or Z-Bo. Trade wise or free agency Nene is our best option, that is why we must work our hardest to get him (overpay some). Hans can come off the bench and become a great role player

Eddie Gill
05-03-2011, 01:36 PM
My dream scenario would be to grab Nene this offseason and still be in a position salary cap wise to make a serious run at Gordon. I feel like he would definitely come back if we had the pieces in place.

vnzla81
05-03-2011, 01:41 PM
My dream scenario would be to grab Nene this offseason and still be in a position salary cap wise to make a serious run at Gordon. I feel like he would definitely come back if we had the pieces in place.

If we pay Nene(12/13mil) and then sign Crawford or Butler for about (7mil) I think we could still have enough money to make a run to any free agent in 2012, remember that Posey would also be an expirer.

Speed
05-03-2011, 01:52 PM
Nene and Jamaal Crawford are exactly the pieces this team needs!

Gamble1
05-03-2011, 02:06 PM
If we pay Nene(12/13mil) and then sign Crawford or Butler for about (7mil) I think we could still have enough money to make a run to any free agent in 2012, remember that Posey would also be an expirer.
I think you are low balling those numbers a bit and remember Roy will also need to be extended as well unless we think he's not worth it.

KingGeorge
05-03-2011, 02:14 PM
I really want Nene :pray:

He is the game changer this team needs.

naptownmenace
05-03-2011, 02:15 PM
Here's (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=hilarne01&y1=2011&p2=hibbero01&y2=2011&p3=hansbty01&y3=2011&p4=mcrobjo01&y4=2011&p5=fosteje01&y5=2011) Nene's production compared to the production of our other bigs.

For those who care about this sort of thing, Nene had the 26th best PER (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics) in the league this past season, 5th best amongst centers.


Nene was far more efficient and consistent. He averaged 14 points per game with 8 attempts. That's better than Roy and Tyler by far during the regular season. Take a good look at the playoffs numbers and you'll see that Nene was once again head and shoulders better.

Jrod Jones
05-03-2011, 02:22 PM
Guys we are going to have 30+ mill in cap space this offseason. What type of player would you realistically expect to get that is more worth the money? Although 12-15mill a year is expensive, it is market value and is completely reasonable for a top tier bigman like Nene.

Guys, like it or not this money has to go somewhere. The point of clearing cap space is to be able to make moves like this, to get that next piece to set the team up for more success. Signing Nene would be huge for this teams depth, flexibility and overall productivity. Stop whining about spending 3-5mill more on a guy that would change this team rather then getting fringe starter like Dalembert for 8-10 mill.

pacers74
05-03-2011, 02:24 PM
Nene is the best available big man this summer. If West can come back and be healthy again he is a close second.

I would love to get Nene, but I still feel like he will stay in Denver. Remember his wife is from Colorado and I am sure she wants to stay there.

BringJackBack
05-03-2011, 03:06 PM
Most important question:

Who is our competition for Nene?

xIndyFan
05-03-2011, 03:09 PM
Nene is not an above average center or power forward. he is a top 5, top 10 C/PF. the dude can play. he come to indiana and he is suddenly the teams best player. or 2nd best player. with a huge gap between nene, danny and the rest of the team. if the pacers want to get him, then they will have to make a max offer, because someone else will.

Gamble1
05-03-2011, 03:10 PM
Most important question:

Who is our competition for Nene?
THe GSW's were rumored to be interested in him during the trade deadline.

Also Ken Berger said he had sources that he wouldn't mind being traded to the Heat and that he had 3 teams he wouldn't mind playing for...Of course this is back in Jan.


Nene is not an above average center or power forward. he is a top 5, top 10 C/PF. the dude can play. he come to indiana and he is suddenly the teams best player. or 2nd best player. with a huge gap between nene, danny and the rest of the team. if the pacers want to get him, then they will have to make a max offer, because someone else will.
How is 15 and 8 a max player? I just can't wrap my mind around that.

ballism
05-03-2011, 03:12 PM
Most important question:

Who is our competition for Nene?

Rockets is the most obvious one, outside of Nuggets. He's been rumoured as Rockets' main target multiple times.
They'd also seem clear favorites over us: big city, no state income tax in Texas (correct me if im wrong), insane amount of draft picks and other trade assets, some good veteran players, respected owner and front office.

Jared Sullinger
05-03-2011, 03:15 PM
Most important question:

Who is our competition for Nene?

2011 Team by Team breakdown (Cap Situation) - Home of the Knicks (http://www.homeoftheknicks.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6670)


Nuggets (obviously)
Kings
Nets
Raptors
Clippers
Timberwolves

Hicks
05-03-2011, 03:18 PM
Count was suggesting on Twitter the idea of trading Roy to Denver in a sign-and-trade to land Nene. The idea being (aside from him being more down on Roy than I am, I think) to avoid having to pay Roy bigger money in the coming years.

I'd do that, if that's what it takes. I would be happy to hold onto Roy and see what he ultimately can become, but if my choices are him and Nene, I have to choose Nene.

That said, I'd still prefer to have both.

CableKC
05-03-2011, 03:21 PM
Most important question:

Who is our competition for Nene?
My guess.....the Kings, Nuggets ( obviously ) and the Nets ( but I'm guessing that they will save the space for making a run at Dwight )...all of which have the Capspace and need to fill out their Frontcourt.

The Kings have the capspace and Geoff Petrie indicated that want to add Frontcourt Depth. It's unclear what they are looking for....either a Starter or if they are simply looking to re-sign Dalembert.

NOTE - or what Jared said.

vnzla81
05-03-2011, 03:27 PM
I agree with Count55, if we could pull a sign and trade and send Roy+picks+AJ for Nene/Felton I would do it and never look back.

pacer4ever
05-03-2011, 03:28 PM
If we pay Nene(12/13mil) and then sign Crawford or Butler for about (7mil) I think we could still have enough money to make a run to any free agent in 2012, remember that Posey would also be an expirer.

We would be so far in the LT when it would come time to resign DC and Hibbert and Hans and George we wouldnt pay the LT(at least thats what Herb says "we spend up to the tax") to resign them and add that much.

ballism
05-03-2011, 03:30 PM
My guess.....the Kings, Nuggets ( obviously ) and the Nets ( but I'm guessing that they will save the space for making a run at Dwight )...all of which have the Capspace and need to fill out their Frontcourt.

The Kings have the capspace and Geoff Petrie indicated that want to add Frontcourt Depth. It's unclear what they are looking for....either a Starter or if they are simply looking to re-sign Dalembert.

NOTE - or what Jared said.

Nets do seem very likely (of those I've never heard in Nene rumours). After all, they can always use Nene as a trade chip in Dwight deal. Nene + Brook Lopez would be a great offer for Dwight if it gets to that.
And if they don't get Dwight, Nene can help convince D-Will to stay.
There's no downside whatsover with Nene to Nets, unless he gets hurt.

pacer4ever
05-03-2011, 03:32 PM
I would be stunned if Mayo gets 7 a year.

Drew Gooden got 5m per last year and there are so many bad deals teams sign. I wouldnt be shocked if someone over pays for him.

EDIT: I mean GS paid Dunleavy 10m per for a lot of years and OJ put up better numbers than MDJ did early on in his career. Value is in the eye of the be holder I guess.

CableKC
05-03-2011, 03:34 PM
Count was suggesting on Twitter the idea of trading Roy to Denver in a sign-and-trade to land Nene. The idea being (aside from him being more down on Roy than I am, I think) to avoid having to pay Roy bigger money in the coming years.

I'd do that, if that's what it takes. I would be happy to hold onto Roy and see what he ultimately can become, but if my choices are him and Nene, I have to choose Nene.

That said, I'd still prefer to have both.
OT...but where has count55 been? He hasn't posted here in awhile.

Hicks
05-03-2011, 03:37 PM
We would be so far in the LT when it would come time to resign DC and Hibbert and Hans and George we wouldnt pay the LT(at least thats what Herb says "we spend up to the tax") to resign them and add that much.

Maybe, maybe not, but even if it means letting 1 or 2 of them go, would you really be upset if we had to? Let's assume George is a given to re-sign. Letting Tyler go wouldn't be devastating (well, ever, but especially) if you have Nene, and Nene also serves as Roy insurance. I also don't think Collison is looking too expensive right now.

Bottom line: I don't not get Nene because I'm worried about keeping one or two of Roy, Tyler, and Collison.

Hicks
05-03-2011, 03:37 PM
Nets do seem very likely (of those I've never heard in Nene rumours). After all, they can always use Nene as a trade chip in Dwight deal. Nene + Brook Lopez would be a great offer for Dwight if it gets to that.
And if they don't get Dwight, Nene can help convince D-Will to stay.
There's no downside whatsover with Nene to Nets, unless he gets hurt.

Why would Nene want to go there just to be Dwight trade bait?

pacer4ever
05-03-2011, 03:38 PM
Why would Nene want to go there just to be Dwight trade bait?

$$$$$$$$$$$

Trophy
05-03-2011, 03:38 PM
I'd love to get Nene.

As said, he'd be a great fit as the starting PF next to Roy and can play center next to Tyler.

Hopefully we can sign him without having to make a trade.

Hicks
05-03-2011, 03:40 PM
$$$$$$$$$$$

Well, obviously he's looking to get paid, but we can pay as much as anyone else, so that doesn't tell me why New Jersey is more attractive to him than Indiana.

I would imagine if winning is of interest to him, he can be sold on how important of a piece he is here. And everyone just saw in the playoffs we're close to turning a serious corner here. New Jersey may or may not.

pacer4ever
05-03-2011, 03:41 PM
Maybe, maybe not, but even if it means letting 1 or 2 of them go, would you really be upset if we had to? Let's assume George is a given to re-sign. Letting Tyler go wouldn't be devastating (well, ever, but especially) if you have Nene, and Nene also serves as Roy insurance. I also don't think Collison is looking too expensive right now.

Bottom line: I don't not get Nene because I'm worried about keeping one or two of Roy, Tyler, and Collison.

I wouldnt mind if DC, Tyler or Roy are traded or what not. But it sounds like Larry feels these guys are his main core moving forward. Which I hope isnt the case but sure sounds like it.

daschysta
05-03-2011, 03:42 PM
Our roster plus nene > New Jersey with nene.

I don't know that the lack of respect angle would jive with the whole "dwight trade bait thing".

CableKC
05-03-2011, 03:43 PM
Why would Nene want to go there just to be Dwight trade bait?
I'd doubt that the Nets would sell it to him like that if they were interested in him. But I'd think that if Nene and his Agent were smart...that very possiblity would be in the back of my mind if they decided to go with the Nets.

My total guess that I am pulling out of thin air is that if Dwight was moved ( a la the Nuggets / Knicks ), he'll be moved back West. I can totally see a Dwight for Cousins+Picks+other Assets type of deal just to move Dwight to the West.

pacer4ever
05-03-2011, 03:43 PM
Well, obviously he's looking to get paid, but we can pay as much as anyone else, so that doesn't tell me why New Jersey is more attractive to him than Indiana.

I would imagine if winning is of interest to him, he can be sold on how important of a piece he is here. And everyone just saw in the playoffs we're close to turning a serious corner here. New Jersey may or may not.

Dwill and Brooklyn(endorsements)

Shade
05-03-2011, 03:47 PM
Nene would be a nearly-perfect addition for us.

CableKC
05-03-2011, 03:47 PM
EDIT: I mean GS paid Dunleavy 10m per for a lot of years and OJ put up better numbers than MDJ did early on in his career. Value is in the eye of the be holder I guess.
You can't compare what Dunleavy got to what Mayo could get. Keep in mind that when Dunleavy hit the FA market....during that specific timeframe, EVERYONE was getting overpaid.

Dunleavy didn't get overpaid because he put up mediocre #s, he got paid cuz that was the market price during that time and the Owners were willing to overspend on their roster at that time ( during that time, Murphy and Adonal Foyle were overpaid as well ).

BringJackBack
05-03-2011, 03:53 PM
This year in Denver he averaged 8.7 shot attempts per game. Wouldn't that number jump up to around 10-12 shot attempts per game for us?

His field goal percentage is just amazing (61.5%).

cgehlhausen4
05-03-2011, 03:55 PM
Sign Nene, trade 15th pick and however many future piicks plus brandon rush for OJ Mayo. Sign Jamal Crawford or JR. Smith. And possibly Sam Dalembert. Gives us a Starting SG in OJ, Back up in Crawford or smith. A starter next to Hibbert with Nene, back up to roy with Dalembert and tyler backing up nene. George Backs granger. DC backed up by Lance and AJ. I see a 50 win season.

Trophy
05-03-2011, 03:56 PM
I'd want us to just sign Nene without having to S&T with Denver to get him.

I want him to start with Roy and to play next to Tyler. Both are young and we don't have much at the position to begin with and adding Nene with the Roy and Tyler big man position would be huge.

The FA I'd be willing to S&T to get is Eric Gordon and I'd give up Danny.

CableKC
05-03-2011, 03:59 PM
Sign Nene, trade 15th pick and however many future piicks plus brandon rush for OJ Mayo. Sign Jamal Crawford or JR. Smith. And possibly Sam Dalembert. Gives us a Starting SG in OJ, Back up in Crawford or smith. A starter next to Hibbert with Nene, back up to roy with Dalembert and tyler backing up nene. George Backs granger. DC backed up by Lance and AJ. I see a 50 win season.
There is no way that Dalembert would be a backup Center to Hibbert....add in that there would be no minutes to sustain a Nene/Hibbert/Dalembert/Hansbrough Frontcourt. Same thing about a Mayo/JCraw/Granger/PG Wing Rotation.

The sheer amount of $$$ that is devoted to those Players could not be justifiy much less work out when it comes to the # of minutes.

ballism
05-03-2011, 04:07 PM
Why would Nene want to go there just to be Dwight trade bait?

You probably don't sell it like that to Nene if you are the Nets GM. Just an educated guess. :)
If you are the GM, you could make a good case that Nene is a great fit next to Howard or anyone they bring in.
You could also make a strong case that if it comes to trades, Brook Lopez + cap relief is a great offer by itself. If Nets are willing to gut the roster, in theory they are capable to make a max or near max offer to Nene, and then trade Lopez+[insert remaining cap space and multitude of role players] for Dwight and Arenas. I'd think that would be pretty harsh, but you get the picture.
Nene would not HAVE to be a trade bait. It's even very likely that Orlando would prefer to unload Arenas or Turkoglu in any Dwight deal over getting more talent.

Gamble1
05-03-2011, 04:09 PM
This year in Denver he averaged 8.7 shot attempts per game. Wouldn't that number jump up to around 10-12 shot attempts per game for us?

His field goal percentage is just amazing (61.5%).
Roy took 11 shots and McBob took 5.4 (FIXED).

Nene took 8.7 and Martin took 7.5.

I really don't understand why Nene took so few shots if he was so effective. Would he shoot more here? I would hope so but even in the playoffs he only took 9.2 which isn't a big jump when you factor in Melo being gone and certainly the scoring load should fall more on him.

daschysta
05-03-2011, 04:26 PM
The nuggets opt for a balanced scoring attack, similar to how we do things. At least in the regular season that style racks up alot of wins, and it can work well in the playoffs too, as long as you can close games out.

Gamble1
05-03-2011, 04:29 PM
The nuggets opt for a balanced scoring attack, similar to how we do things. At least in the regular season that style racks up alot of wins, and it can work well in the playoffs too, as long as you can close games out.
They sure didn't when Carmelo was there..

daschysta
05-03-2011, 04:33 PM
They sure didn't when Carmelo was there..

Obviously not, but in that case all the shots were going to carmelo, as opposed to now when they are being spread around. In both cases nene hans't been asked to be a guy that needs to take a million shots.

naptownmenace
05-03-2011, 04:35 PM
Roy took 11 shots and McBob took 8.7.

Nene took 8.7 and Martin took 7.5.

I really don't understand why Nene took so few shots if he was so effective. Would he shoot more here? I would hope so but even in the playoffs he only took 9.2 which isn't a big jump when you factor in Melo being gone and certainly the scoring load should fall more on him.

After the Melo trade, KMart was the one whose shots went up a lot. They also added Gallinari who is a ballhog and definitely gets his shots. So even though Melo and Billups were traded, 3 guys (each who are above average scorers) took their place. Still Nene's FG percentage and efficiency was actually better after the trade. Nene doesn't force things or take bad shots.

In the article referenced in the OP, Nene mentioned that he sacrificed a lot for the sake of the team and he felt that they (management) didn't appreciate that. I took that to mean that he sacrificed shots and scoring more to stick with the team offense.

Gamble1
05-03-2011, 04:47 PM
Nene doesn't force things or take bad shots.

In the article referenced in the OP, Nene mentioned that he sacrificed a lot for the sake of the team and he felt that they (management) didn't appreciate that. I took that to mean that he sacrificed shots and scoring more to stick with the team offense.
That sounds like more speculation than anything. Its hard to say but I have heard Nene can disappear at times in games. I mean I get not taking bad shot but if the pacers are offering 13 million then you better force things down low and hit difficult shots.

wintermute
05-03-2011, 04:54 PM
In the article referenced in the OP, Nene mentioned that he sacrificed a lot for the sake of the team and he felt that they (management) didn't appreciate that. I took that to mean that he sacrificed shots and scoring more to stick with the team offense.

That's a plausible explanation for Nene's remarks. Doesn't bode well for us though since we'll be asking him to continue that sort of role, playing with high usage players like Hibbert and Hans.



I mean I get not taking bad shot but if the pacers are offering 13 million then you better force things down low and hit difficult shots.


I don't think Nene is the sort of player that can get buckets as a number one option. Maybe naptownmenace is right and he wants more shots, but I don't think he'd ever be more than a 3rd or 4th option.


Roy took 11 shots and McBob took 8.7.

Nene took 8.7 and Martin took 7.5.



Your stat for McBob seems off. Hibbert took 11 FGA/game, and Nene took 8.7. But McBob's per game average is 5.4 FGA.

spreedom
05-03-2011, 04:54 PM
So assuming he'd be our big offseason signing, how much would you all be willing to offer? Would $13M/5yrs work for everyone? I'd give him at least that, or even 6 years in a sign and trade if the Nuggets wanted a trade exception.

naptownmenace
05-03-2011, 05:18 PM
That sounds like more speculation than anything. Its hard to say but I have heard Nene can disappear at times in games. I mean I get not taking bad shot but if the pacers are offering 13 million then you better force things down low and hit difficult shots.

Why didn't the Nuggets throw it down to him more late in close games? They did during the playoffs and he made some good plays (see the video in the OP). They sure didn't go to him much during the regular season though.

I definitely see your point, though and it's a very valid one. In the Pacers offense he could probably get up an average of 11-13 shots a night.

vnzla81
05-03-2011, 05:24 PM
Chris Mannix

Nuggets and Nene are not close to an agreement on an extension, sources say. Haven't discussed terms in weeks.



Nene is inclined to stay in Denver. But there will be a robust market for 28-year old center. Houston, Portland possibilities.
web • 5/3/11 4:32 PM

CableKC
05-03-2011, 05:48 PM
Chris Mannix

Nuggets and Nene are not close to an agreement on an extension, sources say. Haven't discussed terms in weeks.

Nene is inclined to stay in Denver. But there will be a robust market for 28-year old center. Houston, Portland possibilities.
web • 5/3/11 4:32 PM
Portland doesn't have the SalaryCap space to pay him. Houston techincally does....but they have $48 mil in guaranteed Salary.....if he's to command a $13-15 mil contract, that would put the Houston Payroll close to $60+ mil in 2011-2012 Salary.

CableKC
05-03-2011, 05:52 PM
I'd say that Nene will be commanding a contract between $13 to 15 mil a year for 5 seasons....this is roughly what comprable Big Men like ZBo got. The Nuggets will easily match a $13 mil a year....if you really want Nene....be prepared to overpay at $15 mil....that would be the price to pay to get him.

pacer4ever
05-03-2011, 06:04 PM
You can't compare what Dunleavy got to what Mayo could get. Keep in mind that when Dunleavy hit the FA market....during that specific timeframe, EVERYONE was getting overpaid.

Dunleavy didn't get overpaid because he put up mediocre #s, he got paid cuz that was the market price during that time and the Owners were willing to overspend on their roster at that time ( during that time, Murphy and Adonal Foyle were overpaid as well ).

Everyone is still getting over paid Gooden got 5yrs 32m last year and Salmons 40m 5yrs. Plush Charlie V and Ben Gordon. Plenty more exmaples thats why a lockout is coming owners need to stop making stupid deals.

ballism
05-03-2011, 06:40 PM
Portland doesn't have the SalaryCap space to pay him. Houston techincally does....but they have $48 mil in guaranteed Salary.....if he's to command a $13-15 mil contract, that would put the Houston Payroll close to $60+ mil in 2011-2012 Salary.

They both have plenty of assets for sign and trades, so I wouldn't think cap numbers are an issue. Unless SnT is removed from CBA.

As for money, I would never consider paying Nene more than Al Horford or Noah. They are both better than Nene - and were at the time of extensions. Now you may be right and he gets overpayed at 13-15 mil, just saying I wouldn't pay it.

However, I wouldn't judge the market price based on Z-BO - when he signed it after game 1, I didn't see anyone who thinks it was a market price salary (except random fans). It might become a decent contract eventually if he keeps playing like an MVP (at a level Nene has never touched), but few weeks ago that wasn't a market price extension.

Anthem
05-03-2011, 07:28 PM
His rebounding numbers leave a lot to be desired though. Looking at reb%, he's a bit worse than Hibbert and far worse than Foster.
But he's not a replacement for either of those guys. He's a replacement for McBob/Tyler.

wintermute
05-03-2011, 09:10 PM
But he's not a replacement for either of those guys. He's a replacement for McBob/Tyler.

Fair enough. Still, Hibbert and Nene are at best average rebounders. You'd like to think that if we're paying up for a big man, we'd be able to address our rebounding problems.

There's also the disappointment factor, I guess, that a guy who's built like Dale Davis, actually rebounds like Rik Smits. That's not even an exaggeration - Nene's career ORB%, DRB%, and TRB% are 8.4, 18.3, and 13.4 respectively, while Rik's are 8.0, 18.2, and 13.3.

JEM
05-03-2011, 09:15 PM
Nene would be the only guy out there I wouldnt mind the Pacers getting with the reason being he can play the 4 and 5 positions.

vnzla81
05-03-2011, 09:17 PM
Could it be that one of the reasons why Nene's rebound numbers are low is because he makes almost every shot he makes? guys like Zbo, Howard, etc, get a lot of put backs and double rebounds when they miss.


Note: I don't have the numbers I'm just asking the question.

pacer4ever
05-03-2011, 09:31 PM
Could it be that one of the reasons why Nene's rebound numbers are low is because he makes almost every shot he makes? guys like Zbo, Howard, etc, get a lot of put backs and double rebounds when they miss.


Note: I don't have the numbers I'm just asking the question.

No Dwight aved 14rebs while shooting 60% this season. Zbo shot 50% this season however he shots a lot of jumpers. (Nene shot 61%)Zbo and Howard are just better rebounders.

vnzla81
05-03-2011, 09:44 PM
Here is another nice video I found





<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ays9bZnKXkA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

BringJackBack
05-03-2011, 09:50 PM
Watching that video immediately makes me feel super thankful that we don't have to watch Rasho/Murphy on the floor at the same time anymore.. How far we have come.

Trophy
05-03-2011, 09:54 PM
Watching that video immediately makes me feel super thankful that we don't have to watch Rasho/Murphy on the floor at the same time anymore.. How far we have come.

I'm happy with how far Roy has come.

Rasho was starting over Roy and whenever Roy would go out there, he clearly had no idea what he was doing.

To think we can get a currently improved and still getting better Roy and a defensive stopper in Nene with Tyler's energy off the bench, that would be great.

Hopefully we can get this done.

Pacerized
05-03-2011, 09:56 PM
I've been in favor of going after Nene all season. I thought Denver would try to take the same approach with Nene as they did with Melo and get something for him before he left them hanging. I agree with Hicks that if we're going to over pay this is the guy. I don't see how anyone could justify giving up assets to obtain Iggy and his contract that goes up to 16 mil in the 13/14 season and not want to offer the same contract to Nene. You over pay for big men not wings. Nene is not a 4 he's a 5 but he's a 5 that can start along with Hibbert and not give up anything on defense to teams who start small forwards at the 4. I hope we can sign him out right and get him without giving up any assets in a trade. The day Nene opts out we need to be on his doorstep with an offer sheet.

pacer4ever
05-03-2011, 09:57 PM
Here is another nice video I found





<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ays9bZnKXkA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Youtube videos arent gonna show if a player is good or not i mean watch this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw9-yyFwffo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsERjrGnECI&feature=related

Nene is a great player but mixs dont show how good or bad a player is.

this one is my favorite it is so :lol:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GFC5892OTs

mikeyism
05-03-2011, 10:17 PM
The smart thing would be for Nene to opt out. He will probably grab $14M a year in a weak FA market, which is a lot of dust for a guy that will get you 15ppg and 8rb for the next 3-5 years. He would potentially be our highest paid player if we picked him up. And he doesn't solve our problems with scoring or post defense. He's quick and has size, which he uses to get steals and draw charges. But he's not a shot-blocker, and opposing centers averaged a very healthy 18 pts per 48 against him (82games.com).

Spirit
05-03-2011, 10:34 PM
I'd sign him as our starting Center. I don't think Hansbrough has warranted being benched just yet. We need to see if he can be a consistent starter before we call him a bench player.

mattie
05-03-2011, 10:38 PM
Picking him up wouldn't be the worst decision in the world, but it truly isn't going to help this team ever compete in the long run, in fact I'm quite certain it would handicap any chances of the Pacers competing for a title in the next 5.

IF the Pacers horde cap space and way for the right guys, while possibly trading up for good draft picks... etc, they'll build a true winner. You over pay someone like Nene? You're going to have flaws on your team.

Not saying it's the worst thing ever, I'd love to have a legit PF next to Roy. With that said, we'd still be terrible rebounding the ball- We'd still have a sub par interior defense. I think the only thing that would happen is we'd be more efficient on offense but our overall defensive efficiency I don't think would improve at all. If we're honest with ourselves!

Daily we try to be honest about all our guys. Everyone repeatedly says How DG isn't really that good, or Roy will never be anything he's too soft, or PG shows no offensive upside, or DC has no court vision...

Folks you're going to find those similar criticisms on the next guy Larry signs. It's going to happen and you'll be able to see that players glaring weaknesses. Stop looking with rose colored glasses at the supposed greatness of certain players on opposing teams.

Nene wouldn't be terrible, but he'd take a lot of cap space, he would marginally improve our win total, and would certainly keep up us from landing a truly good big man that actually can rebound and defend effectively.

mattie
05-03-2011, 10:40 PM
Here's the deal, if you want to sign Mayo, Crawford, Nene? You're going to be the Hawks, a team that might be good enough to compete for 50 games, but with a ton of egotistical personalities, and absolutely no cap space.

The Hawks have shown who they are... They have talent, they don't always perform at their potential and they certainly have an opportunity to shock the Bulls, but that team cannot win a title. It's not going to happen.

mattie
05-03-2011, 10:46 PM
Here's a thought for those who want a strong big man: We can always trade up for the necessary pick to land Bismack who will be a truly good big man like Iblocka. How willing would you be to do that?

ilive4sports
05-03-2011, 10:49 PM
Here's a thought for those who want a strong big man: We can always trade up for the necessary pick to land Bismack who will be a truly good big man like Iblocka. How willing would you be to do that?

I would much rather sign a proven player like Nene, than have to trade away assets to get Bismack who is certainly not a sure thing and will take time to develop into the player he can be.

Give me Nene and Crawford for 6th man. That makes us a pretty damn good team. As the rest of the roster matures and grows into the players they can be, this team would be near the top in the league.

BringJackBack
05-03-2011, 10:52 PM
Here's the deal, if you want to sign Mayo, Crawford, Nene? You're going to be the Hawks, a team that might be good enough to compete for 50 games, but with a ton of egotistical personalities, and absolutely no cap space.
.

I don't see it that way at all. There is a good chance that Jamaal and Nene would be our two best scorers next year.. Nene also takes care of our rebounding, post defense, and post up scoring while Crawford takes care of our closing games. I think we could potentially win something around 55 games NEXT YEAR depending on how much DC/Hibbert/George/Hans/Lance improve.

And if Vogel is back.

ilive4sports
05-03-2011, 11:02 PM
The nice thing about bringing in Nene and Crawford would be having legit and consistent options on the offensive end outside of Danny Granger. That has been a huge problem with this team. Say what you want about Danny not being a number one. But there aren't many true number one guys in the league. Not having a legit and consistent number two has been killing this team.

mattie
05-03-2011, 11:03 PM
I would much rather sign a proven player like Nene, than have to trade away assets to get Bismack who is certainly not a sure thing and will take time to develop into the player he can be.

Give me Nene and Crawford for 6th man. That makes us a pretty damn good team. As the rest of the roster matures and grows into the players they can be, this team would be near the top in the league.

I'm not saying that isn't fair. That could be the best way to go about things... essentially turning to a 50+ winner that will never compete for a title. Ever.

I personally would rather this team build a team with the sole intention of winning a title, which we only put guys on the team that will truly help us compete against the best.

If we could I'd trade maybe Tyler and Rush for a chance to pickup Bismarck. I'd be shocked if he doesn't turn into a strong defending, shotblocking and reboudning PF in this league. He's a stud right now.

I'd expect Paul George to start next year and show immediate signs that he'll be a good player, which means I expect him to throw up 14-15 a game showing a marked improvement- If not I'd probably trade DG for draft picks...

In other words I'd continue hording cap space yearly looking for the right guys until it finally came together. I'd never want to turn into the Hawks or the Magic. That's destined for failure.

pacers101
05-03-2011, 11:13 PM
Nene isnt coming here. He's either staying in Denver or going to a city that has direct flights to Brazil. Houston, Miami and whatever the other city he listed all have direct flights to Brazil.

vnzla81
05-03-2011, 11:20 PM
Nene isnt coming here. He's either staying in Denver or going to a city that has direct flights to Brazil. Houston, Miami and whatever the other city he listed all have direct flights to Brazil.

:wtf:

ilive4sports
05-03-2011, 11:36 PM
I'm not saying that isn't fair. That could be the best way to go about things... essentially turning to a 50+ winner that will never compete for a title. Ever.

I personally would rather this team build a team with the sole intention of winning a title, which we only put guys on the team that will truly help us compete against the best.

If we could I'd trade maybe Tyler and Rush for a chance to pickup Bismarck. I'd be shocked if he doesn't turn into a strong defending, shotblocking and reboudning PF in this league. He's a stud right now.

I'd expect Paul George to start next year and show immediate signs that he'll be a good player, which means I expect him to throw up 14-15 a game showing a marked improvement- If not I'd probably trade DG for draft picks...

In other words I'd continue hording cap space yearly looking for the right guys until it finally came together. I'd never want to turn into the Hawks or the Magic. That's destined for failure.

I personally think that this team could be a contender by signing Nene and Crawford and having the rest of the guys develop. A lot depends on how good our young pieces become, but that will be the situation with any additions this team adds.

vnzla81
05-03-2011, 11:54 PM
I personally think that this team could be a contender by signing Nene and Crawford and having the rest of the guys develop. A lot depends on how good our young pieces become, but that will be the situation with any additions this team adds.

Adding those guys and a point guard that knows how to pass the ball could make us contenders, I don't see that happening as long as DC is the PG.

clownskull
05-04-2011, 12:15 AM
I can live with that :signit:

yup, i could deal with that too.
he can effectively play both positions.
if he opts out- i hope we make a pitch for the guy.

ilive4sports
05-04-2011, 12:48 AM
Adding those guys and a point guard that knows how to pass the ball could make us contenders, I don't see that happening as long as DC is the PG.

I still think DC can become that guy, but I do agree that it really is the deciding factor in the way the team can progress. I don't think its the right time to say DC can't do this because he just finished 2nd year and has had how many coaches so far. Let the kid go through an off season and a full season under one coach.

Anthem
05-04-2011, 01:02 AM
Nene isnt coming here. He's either staying in Denver or going to a city that has direct flights to Brazil. Houston, Miami and whatever the other city he listed all have direct flights to Brazil.
You think Nene flies coach?

IndyPacer
05-04-2011, 01:49 AM
I would have to agree that Nene would be a great fit for Indiana. He's exactly the type of guy I'd go after if I was the GM for this team. If he was signed here, I'd actually consider his age (28) a STRENGTH on this team as a dedicated veteran player and good player on a very young team. I hope he's a focus of the brass' efforts.

CableKC
05-04-2011, 04:43 AM
Nene isnt coming here. He's either staying in Denver or going to a city that has direct flights to Brazil. Houston, Miami and whatever the other city he listed all have direct flights to Brazil.
I don't get it...is he going to fly back to Brazil inbetween home games?

Does he even do that now from Denver?

I'm with vnzla81.....:wtf: Whether Indy has a direct flight to anywhere is the last thing that anyone like Nene or any FA is going to look into. There are a multitude of reasons why a FA will choose to come to Indy or not...and that is the last one that anybody will consider.

birdsandbats
05-04-2011, 05:08 AM
Nene's a pick and roll big which is good to pair with DC. However, to pay 15 mill for a guy with not a great post up game is a stretch. He only averages 15 ppg/7 rpg and we wanna pay him LeBron level money?

Also, we suck at rebounding as shown by the Chicago series, and Nene isn't an elite rebounder. Would must rather just sign crawford and a tough defender to pair with Hibbert (crossing my fingers for Josh Smith). If Nene comes at 12 mill, that may be worth it.

Frostwolf
05-04-2011, 05:24 AM
al horford is player X. 4 who can play 5, can shoot the midrange, good post defender, quick enough to stick with stretch 4s.

we'll never be able to get him though. also, 14M for nene is ridonkulous.

CableKC
05-04-2011, 11:07 AM
al horford is player X. 4 who can play 5, can shoot the midrange, good post defender, quick enough to stick with stretch 4s.

we'll never be able to get him though. also, 14M for nene is ridonkulous.
Horford isn't on the Market anyways. He signed an extension with the Hawks.

CableKC
05-04-2011, 11:13 AM
Nene's a pick and roll big which is good to pair with DC. However, to pay 15 mill for a guy with not a great post up game is a stretch. He only averages 15 ppg/7 rpg and we wanna pay him LeBron level money?
Minor point and a really small distinction...but throughout his career...you are right...he averaged 12.3ppg/7rpg over the course 9 seasons...but he's been marred by injury ending seasons. I'm more inclined to look at his last 3 seasons where he played 76, 82, and 75 games where he averaged 14.3ppg/7.6rpg over 33mpg. Again, not that much better....but a slightly clearer picture of his performance.

mildlysane
05-04-2011, 11:25 AM
Sorry, but I would still rather have Scola or Josh Smith. Especially Scola.

Jared Sullinger
05-04-2011, 11:27 AM
Anything more than $11M per for Nene would be overpaying. I'd be o.k. with 5/$55 with incentives that could push the contract up to, say, $60M, but anything more than that and I'd just save the cap space.

$15M per? Yikes...

Gamble1
05-04-2011, 11:29 AM
Sorry, but I would still rather have Scola or Josh Smith. Especially Scola.
I would have to agree here but they are probably not on the trade table.

mildlysane
05-04-2011, 11:36 AM
I would have to agree here but they are probably not on the trade table.
True, but who knew that Deron Williams was on the trading table when he was traded? Just gotta work it!

CableKC
05-04-2011, 11:37 AM
Sorry, but I would still rather have Scola or Josh Smith. Especially Scola.
With the way the Hawks are playing, I'm not so sure that the Hawks will dismantle it so quickly. Maybe if they lost to the Magic and if they didn't pull off a win on the Road against the Bulls....but now? not so sure.

As for Scola....I don't see the Rockets parting with him....despite the likely plans to rebuild...he's the one sole bright spot and consistent Player on the roster. Add in that he's paid $8.5 mil to 11 mil a year over the next 4 seasons...really not that bad for a Big Man that consistently performs.

Gamble1
05-04-2011, 11:46 AM
True, but who knew that Deron Williams was on the trading table when he was traded? Just gotta work it!
The Dwill trade was to get something for a player who was going to leave anyway. As far as we know Scola and Smith are not making trade demands behind close doors.

IT would take a lot to pull Smith away and I have feeling it would take Hibbert and much more to get a deal done. I agree with some here that Nene is not worth 15 mill per year and a deal like that pretty much makes it very unlikely we could get EJ in the future. It will be interesting what teams will want to get under the cap next year.

naptownmenace
05-04-2011, 11:48 AM
Why does everyone keep throwing out the 15 million dollar mark like that's what he's definitely going to command? He probably is not going to get a deal that even averages 15 million.

The Pacers could offer him a 4 year 54 million deal starting at 12 million and increasing 1 million dollars each year. Add in some incentives like making the All-Star team, averaging 10 rebounds a game for the season, and playing at least 75 games. Maybe another team will offer him more but I doubt it.

That deal would average out to 13.5 million per season. That deal would pay him more than the deals that Horford, Scola, and Noah just signed.

Gamble1
05-04-2011, 11:55 AM
Why does everyone keep throwing out the 15 million dollar mark like that's what he's definitely going to command? He probably is not going to get a deal that even averages 15 million.
I think 15 million or something very close is what it would take for the "Pacers" to sign him. The Nuggets have the cash to sign him but I think they would let him walk if it meant 15 mill per. ITs been rumored that he has 3 teams he wouldn't mind signing with and there has been no indications that the Pacers are one of those teams.

mildlysane
05-04-2011, 12:06 PM
The Dwill trade was to get something for a player who was going to leave anyway. As far as we know Scola and Smith are not making trade demands behind close doors.

IT would take a lot to pull Smith away and I have feeling it would take Hibbert and much more to get a deal done. I agree with some here that Nene is not worth 15 mill per year and a deal like that pretty much makes it very unlikely we could get EJ in the future. It will be interesting what teams will want to get under the cap next year.
D Williams seemed awfully shocked about the trade. I would gladly give up Hibbert plus for either Scola or Smith. They are just better players. I don't think anyone is untouchable when it comes to trades. You just have to name the right price. I'm not dumb, though....you don't break the bank for anyone, but if either could be had without shooting ourselves in the foot, I think we would get better results than if we got Nene.

ksuttonjr76
05-04-2011, 12:25 PM
How does Nene fare against Eastern Conference teams? I would think he would put up BETTER numbers in the east at the PF spot.

vnzla81
05-04-2011, 12:42 PM
http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/05/03/nene-would-be-intriguing-addition-to-market/?sct=nba_bf1_a3



There are conflicting reports in the Denver Post about the future of Nene, who has an early-termination option that would allow him to forgo the $11.6 million he could make in Denver next season and become a free agent this summer. The paper reported over the weekend that the team and its center could work out a three-year extension, but in Tuesday’s edition, Nene sounds like he is leaning toward opting out and testing the market.

You can’t blame anyone for the indecision, especially considering the uncertain nature of the next collective bargaining agreement. A call to Nene’s agent, Dan Fegan, was not immediately returned.

As I watch the playoffs — and especially the Grizzlies — I find myself wondering if Nene’s value would be rising in a theoretical (and nonexistent) world in which the collective bargaining agreement stays the same. There are so few big men who can bully you at the rim on offense and be at least a neutral presence on defense. There are a lot of great two-way power forwards left in the playoffs — Zach Randolph, Chris Bosh, Al Horford (who starts at center for Atlanta), Kevin Garnett, Josh Smith, Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol, Serge Ibaka — but few have the beef of a center, and Ibaka is still unpolished offensively. There are also a few center types who can shove people around the post on defense but don’t do much offensively — Kendrick Perkins, for instance.

This is why Memphis is causing such problems. The Grizzlies have two guys with the bulk of a true center and the ability to contribute on both ends. Marc Gasol isn’t an offensive stud on Randolph’s level, but he’s big, he has touch and he can score in a variety of ways. Randolph isn’t a top-flight defender, but the numbers show he is better than his reputation, and the Grizzlies continue to be a stingy defensive club even as teams try to attack Randolph on pick-and-pops and other plays designed to get him moving. At worst, he’s a neutral presence, not a liability.

Nene is his own entity, but he’s another true big man — a center — who can help on both ends. If there’s a knock on his offensive game, it’s that he has never shown he can carry an attack, and he’s not a back-to-the-basket beast who can score easily in isolation. Not much changed after Denver dealt Carmelo Anthony, either. Nene attempted 8.7 shots per game before the trade and 8.8 after the trade. His field-goal percentage fell from about 62 percent before the trade to 57 percent afterward, but you’d take that latter mark in a second. His free throws went up, and he used about 22 percent of Denver’s possessions, compared to about 19 percent for the full season.

In other words: Nene took on more of a burden after Anthony’s departure, but not enough of one to suggest he could ever do what Randolph has done for Memphis’ offense in the last two weeks. He scores more off cuts, and even his post-up chances usually come after some quick-hitting motion has allowed him to get deep position.

Still, if Nene does opt out, he will probably end up the best player on the market. Unfortunately for him, the most attractive potential suitors — i.e. contenders, or teams with nice foundations — either lack the cap space to sign Nene or a hole in the middle for him to fill.

One intriguing exception might be Houston. The Rockets could get their 2011-12 salary commitments down to about $46 million if they renounce all their free agents, including Yao Ming and Chuck Hayes. Of course, the Rockets love Hayes, and they will also have to set aside money for two first-round picks in the June draft unless they deal one. And we have no idea if the next salary cap will fall close to this season’s $58 million figure.

Here’s a quick list of a few other teams that might have the resources and desire to pursue Nene as a free agent. Keep in mind that Denver can also sign-and-trade Nene, which would open up a pile of other options.

• Golden State: The Warriors are openly lusting after centers (and openly criticizing poor Andris Biedrins, who is certainly not poor in the financial sense), but they are handicapped here by the fact that Charlie Bell and Lou Amundson have options to return next season for nearly $7 million combined. If they exercise those options, the Warriors’ cap number will be around $48 million. That may not leave enough space to make a true run at Nene, depending on how the CBA shakes out. (The $48 million number also doesn’t include money for draft picks and charges for empty roster spots.)

• Detroit: Another possible fool’s gold case, as the Pistons could really only work their way down to about $48 million — and that’s if they decide to part with Rodney Stuckey, perhaps the most divisive restricted free agent set to hit the market. Things could change a bit if they could somehow unload Richard Hamilton and take back less salary in return. There could be fit and spacing issues with the Nene/Greg Monroe pairing, but the Pistons need size badly.

• Toronto: The Raptors have hopefully given up on the notion that Andrea Bargnani can be a real NBA center on the glass. Nene, though not an elite rebounder, could work as an intriguing banger next to Bargnani. The Raptors could cut down to about $47 million for next season if they renounce their free agents (Julian Wright, Sonny Weems and Joey Dorsey), and they could slash further if they find a taker for Leandro Barbosa’s expiring contract. Who knows if they could ever persuade Nene to sign there, especially given the current front-office uncertainty, but it’s an interesting thought.

• Minnesota: The Wolves should have a ton of cap room. I’ll stop there.

• Sacramento: The Kings should have enough cap room to sign two Nenes, but they barely spent last season, and they have to take care of Marcus Thornton and perhaps decide how much Samuel Dalembert might be worth. Of course, if you can get Nene, you wave goodbye to Dalembert in a second. The presence of DeMarcus Cousins might bring some positional overlap issues, too.

At this point, the what-if game becomes a little ridiculous. What if Tim Duncan retires, freeing up cap space in San Antonio? What if David West decides, for some crazy reason, to opt out in New Orleans even though he’s going to miss a huge chunk of next season with a serious knee injury? What if Boris Diaw drinks too much wine one summer night and decides to opt out of his $9 million option in Charlotte? What if the Hawks, all of a sudden on fire, decide to work a sign-and-trade involving Smith? (Note: Before Atlanta’s playoff run, I really liked this possibility — which is just speculation on my part.)

The general point is that the free-agent market is not overrun with easy fits, particularly because some teams with potential cap space either have young centers they like or are gunning for the 2012 class that could include Dwight Howard and Chris Paul. The Clippers and Nets fit both those criteria, though signing Nene doesn’t take you out of the 2012 bidding if you think a sign-and-trade for one of those superstars is possible.

What an interesting spot for Nene — a player good enough, and unusual enough, to affect the balance of power in the league at least a bit.

wintermute
05-04-2011, 12:42 PM
True, but who knew that Deron Williams was on the trading table when he was traded? Just gotta work it!

The problem here is that our main asset is cap space, and teams aren't eager to trade the likes of Deron, Josh Smith, or Scola for cap space. Cap space alone gets you a Marvin Williams, not a Josh Smith.

No, to get those quality of players, we'll need to throw in young talent, and to be honest we don't have a lot of young talent, and we'd like to keep most of them besides.

So if cap space is our main asset, we'd have to look at free agency, and the nature of free agency is that you generally have to overpay. We might get lucky if another team needs a salary dump - something like taking on Posey's contract to get Collison - but there's no guarantee another deal like that pops up.

Then of course, if we don't like our options, we can sit on the cap space and wait another year. But after 3 years of rebuilding, it seems doubtful that the Pacers or the fans are in a mood to be patient. The options would have to be really bad, I think, before we decide to do this.

wintermute
05-04-2011, 12:52 PM
Odd how that article misses the Pacers, which has both the cap space and need. A lot of the teams mentioned could only daydream about going after a player like Nene.



Golden State: The Warriors are openly lusting after centers (and openly criticizing poor Andris Biedrins, who is certainly not poor in the financial sense), but they are handicapped here by the fact that Charlie Bell and Lou Amundson have options to return next season for nearly $7 million combined. If they exercise those options, the Warriors’ cap number will be around $48 million. That may not leave enough space to make a true run at Nene, depending on how the CBA shakes out. (The $48 million number also doesn’t include money for draft picks and charges for empty roster spots.)

I'm intrigued by this though. How badly does Golden State want to go after Nene? If they salary dump say Monta and Biedrins to the Pacers, they would then have more than enough cap space to make a run at Nene.

pacer4ever
05-04-2011, 12:57 PM
Odd how that article misses the Pacers, which has both the cap space and need. A lot of the teams mentioned could only daydream about going after a player like Nene.



I'm intrigued by this though. How badly does Golden State want to go after Nene? If they salary dump say Monta and Biedrins to the Pacers, they would then have more than enough cap space to make a run at Nene.

If i am GM zero way I take Biedrins on unless it is for Curry or Monta and Dorrell Wright. His contract is insanly bad just like Murphys and Dunleavys was. That is cap hell all over again. Monta is really really good. But we couldnt afford any bigs good defensive bigs if we took that deal. Which in my opionion is just as big of need as another scorer.

Blink
05-04-2011, 12:59 PM
Odd how that article misses the Pacers, which has both the cap space and need. A lot of the teams mentioned could only daydream about going after a player like Nene.


Pretty glaring omission...makes you wonder if it's assumed that we aren't going to be a player in FA.

Hicks
05-04-2011, 01:41 PM
My guess, assuming the new CBA is similar to the old one, is Nene will get similar to between 5/$55m and 5/$65m.

The former is a no-brainer, the latter is pushing it.

vnzla81
05-04-2011, 01:41 PM
Here is an article about the Knicks possible targeting Dalembert

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/sights_on_samuel_4cHTQNXaQO4R6rrCC30unI



With the chances slim of adding a quality center with the 17th pick in the draft and with an unkind salary cap situation in 2011, sources close to Knicks president Donnie Walsh say he has targeted Kings 6-foot-11 shotblocker Samuel Dalembert as the likeliest free-agent catch this summer.

CableKC
05-04-2011, 01:43 PM
Pretty glaring omission...makes you wonder if it's assumed that we aren't going to be a player in FA.
I'm not saying that every journalist should know what on Earth an insignificant small Market Team needs are...but they should at least figure out that the Pacers have the capspace necessary to at least try to make a run at a major FA to improve the Team.

The Pacers have the Capspace and a glaring need for some major Frontcourt help...this is something that was obvious during the Playoffs.

You call it a glaring omission....I call it poor journalism and not doing your homework.

CableKC
05-04-2011, 01:55 PM
Here is an article about the Knicks possible targeting Dalembert

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/sights_on_samuel_4cHTQNXaQO4R6rrCC30unI
Not surprising here.....but Dalembert will have to take a paycut if he wants to play in the Big Apple. At least for this season....the Knicks have roughly $51 mil sunk into Carmello/Amare/Billups ( and whoever will be replacing him....whether it is CP3 or Deron ).

cgg
05-04-2011, 02:49 PM
I feel like any player who wears #31 probably wants to play in Indiana. :-p

ballism
05-04-2011, 03:16 PM
Not surprising here.....but Dalembert will have to take a paycut if he wants to play in the Big Apple. At least for this season....the Knicks have roughly $51 mil sunk into Carmello/Amare/Billups ( and whoever will be replacing him....whether it is CP3 or Deron ).

Considering how overpayed is Dalembert, it's a paycut either way for him. Knicks could only offer him midlevel though. I wonder how many suitors will there be.

Justin Tyme
05-04-2011, 05:26 PM
My guess, assuming the new CBA is similar to the old one, is Nene will get similar to between 5/$55m and 5/$65m.

The former is a no-brainer, the latter is pushing it.


My belief is there will be no more Bird rights or 5 year contracts in the new CBA. Owners don't want to get tied into a bad contract as has been done over the years. My feeling is they are going to prefer 3 year deals and only want to give 4 year deals to the top tier players. JMOAA

ballism
05-04-2011, 05:34 PM
My belief is there will be no more Bird rights or 5 year contracts in the new CBA. Owners don't want to get tied into a bad contract as has been done over the years. My feeling is they are going to prefer 3 year deals and only want to give 4 year deals to the top tier players. JMOAA

This is a bit off topic, but even Stern said Bird rights is a good thing (can't remember, recent Scott van Pelt show maybe? Stern was on the radio/TV a lot last month). So, this seems the least likely thing to go away in new CBA. Shorter contracts, less guaranteed money, different midlevel exception - those seem almost inevitable.

Justin Tyme
05-04-2011, 05:38 PM
Not surprising here.....but Dalembert will have to take a paycut if he wants to play in the Big Apple. At least for this season....the Knicks have roughly $51 mil sunk into Carmello/Amare/Billups ( and whoever will be replacing him....whether it is CP3 or Deron ).


IMO, I feel the Knicks can use Billups salary to bring in players they need more than an aging PG. They were exposed with lack of good players in the playoffs.

IndyPacer
05-04-2011, 06:35 PM
This is a bit off topic, but even Stern said Bird rights is a good thing (can't remember, recent Scott van Pelt show maybe? Stern was on the radio/TV a lot last month). So, this seems the least likely thing to go away in new CBA. Shorter contracts, less guaranteed money, different midlevel exception - those seem almost inevitable.

I think Bird rights are among the few weapons small market teams have to retain the services of their top players. I want that to stay.

jeffg-body
05-05-2011, 12:10 AM
I sure hope he does. He would look good in a Pacer's jersey. I would not care if we overpay a little. We could have the twin towers. If we could land Nene and somehow revist the trade for Mayo or work out a trade for Iggy, we'd be set.

CableKC
05-05-2011, 01:55 AM
IMO, I feel the Knicks can use Billups salary to bring in players they need more than an aging PG. They were exposed with lack of good players in the playoffs.
What I was trying to point out that they will be saddled with 3 Top tier Players that will likely be owed $51+ mil ( with Chauncey this year and eventually either CP3 or Deron )......just like Miami, any Player that wants to join them will have to take a pay cut in order to play in South Beach or the Big Apple. Even if the CBA stays the same ( which doesn't seem to be the case ), the Knicks will only be able to offer so much to any Player joining them.

xBulletproof
05-05-2011, 02:06 AM
What I was trying to point out that they will be saddled with 3 Top tier Players that will likely be owed $51+ mil ( with Chauncey this year and eventually either CP3 or Deron )......just like Miami, any Player that wants to join them will have to take a pay cut in order to play in South Beach or the Big Apple. Even if the CBA stays the same ( which doesn't seem to be the case ), the Knicks will only be able to offer so much to any Player joining them.

It's highly unlikely the Knicks get anyone like that. They have 40 million that season tied up in just Amare and Carmelo. Even if the cap stays at about 55 million, they'd have to sign no more free agents at all and have no more salaries on the books (no draft picks, even) to help stay within range of signing them.

They also don't have anything left anyone would want to trade for besides Amare and Carmelo.

No clue how people think they're going to pull that off.

CableKC
05-05-2011, 12:25 PM
It's highly unlikely the Knicks get anyone like that. They have 40 million that season tied up in just Amare and Carmelo. Even if the cap stays at about 55 million, they'd have to sign no more free agents at all and have no more salaries on the books (no draft picks, even) to help stay within range of signing them.

They also don't have anything left anyone would want to trade for besides Amare and Carmelo.

No clue how people think they're going to pull that off.
Yep...can't agree with you more. The price to play with Carmelo/Amare/Billups ( or CP3/Deron ) in the Big Apple or Wade/LeDecision/TagAlong in South Beach is that you have to take a paycut.

Realistically, veteran Role Players that come cheap are the only ones that would likely end up there....but the good thing is that veteran Role Players with Playoff Experience that may only do 1 thing GOOD is all they really need.

CableKC
05-05-2011, 12:34 PM
Considering how overpayed is Dalembert, it's a paycut either way for him. Knicks could only offer him midlevel though. I wonder how many suitors will there be.
If Dalembert could be had for anywhere between the MidLevel Exception and $5 mil a year and was willing to split time at the Center spot and play some backup PF minutes ( which he sort of did in SacTown with Cousins ) for 28+ minutes a game, I'd be interested in him.

Unfortunately, my guess is that some Team in need for a Starting Shotblocking, athletic and rebounding Center will sign him for $6 to 7 mil a year.

Oliver
05-05-2011, 08:49 PM
I'm no expert but my gut tells me NENE isn't going anywhere. I would love to see him playing for the Pacers, but I am a little hesitant to throw big Big money at him. I could see him going on a downward spiral toward irrelevancy, either bc of injuries or just losing a few steps due to age. He is a somewhat heavy player. Don't get me wrong I think he has at least 2 or 3 more "good" years followed by a few years as a consistent role player, but I would rather get a mean up and coming athletic big man. Actually I wish we had Z-BO but that ship has sailed. I would always put him on my video game pacer teams BITD.

Trophy
05-05-2011, 09:40 PM
Collison/Gordon/George/Nene/Hibbert is a lineup that will be insanely good for us and also Tyler as the sixth man.

I'm really hoping to see this.

Phree Refill
05-06-2011, 01:00 PM
Don't know why but I've never been a fan of Nene's game. If he was better at rebounding AND shot blocking I'd be less apprehensive about throwing 13-15 million at him but I really don't feel like he's worth that. At most I think he's making about the maximum he ever should make right now and thats 11.5 million a year. Tyler can basically give you the same production as Nene. If you're gonna overpay for a Nene who has basically reached their full potential at 14.5ppg and 7.6rpg then I'd feel much more optimistic at throwing 5 million a year less towards Greg Oden and seeing if we can snag him away from Portland. Oden would give you no less than equal production of what Nene would give you and you'd be getting a player that is only halfway to reaching their potential.

Keep in mind that Nene hasn't exactly been the healthiest of players either. He's missed nearly 2 full seasons due to injury and another year he missed a third of the season. He's only played in all 82 games once. I guess I'm saying I'd rather spend less and take a risk on Oden than overspend for a player that gives you the production of someone already on the roster. Sure he might bring a few other intangibles to the table that we don't have at this exact moment but give Tyler a full season of consistent playing time and I'd be willing to bet by the end of next year Tyler is more productive and efficient than Nene. Nene has "developed" for 9 years. Tyler has had barely over a year and already equals Nene's output. Tyler can be better than Nene if he's given steady minutes. Bring Nene in and I feel like you'll stunt Tyler's growth. I don't know if its worth risking. I can think of several other ways I'd rather spend 15million than throwing it at 15-8 guy. Just because we have more money than any other team doesn't mean we have to spend it. Nene isn't a home run. Oden could be. If we signed Nene, we may be a 5th seed in the East. 4 years from now I think we'd look back and say that it was a lateral move. If Oden pans, we could be a top 3 seed. If Oden doesn't pan out? We're no worse than we were before we signed him.

Pacerized
05-06-2011, 09:28 PM
You bring up some good points but I find it hard to understand how you could list Nene's health as an issue and then bring up Oden in the same paragraph. Nene has had 2 bad seasons as far as missing games but one of those was due to testicular cancer which isn't likely to be a reoccurring issue. He's had 6 very healthy season in which he played more then 75 games and more importantly his last 3 seasons have been healthy so it's not like we'd be going after West with an immediate health concern. Overall he's been healthier then average for a center and at 28 he still have a lot of productive years ahead. I can't think of any productive big men who haven't missed games due to injury issues. Granted he's not a franchise player but he's a true big man who I would call a fringe all star and he's likely to make an all star team in the near future. Oden wouldn't come cheap and he is simply too much of a risk. I'd rather pay Nene 13-15 mil, then to pay Oden 10 and never see him play. There are probably 8-10 big men that I'd rather have but none of them are going to be available so I'd be very happy with Nene.


Don't know why but I've never been a fan of Nene's game. If he was better at rebounding AND shot blocking I'd be less apprehensive about throwing 13-15 million at him but I really don't feel like he's worth that. At most I think he's making about the maximum he ever should make right now and thats 11.5 million a year. Tyler can basically give you the same production as Nene. If you're gonna overpay for a Nene who has basically reached their full potential at 14.5ppg and 7.6rpg then I'd feel much more optimistic at throwing 5 million a year less towards Greg Oden and seeing if we can snag him away from Portland. Oden would give you no less than equal production of what Nene would give you and you'd be getting a player that is only halfway to reaching their potential.

Keep in mind that Nene hasn't exactly been the healthiest of players either. He's missed nearly 2 full seasons due to injury and another year he missed a third of the season. He's only played in all 82 games once. I guess I'm saying I'd rather spend less and take a risk on Oden than overspend for a player that gives you the production of someone already on the roster. Sure he might bring a few other intangibles to the table that we don't have at this exact moment but give Tyler a full season of consistent playing time and I'd be willing to bet by the end of next year Tyler is more productive and efficient than Nene. Nene has "developed" for 9 years. Tyler has had barely over a year and already equals Nene's output. Tyler can be better than Nene if he's given steady minutes. Bring Nene in and I feel like you'll stunt Tyler's growth. I don't know if its worth risking. I can think of several other ways I'd rather spend 15million than throwing it at 15-8 guy. Just because we have more money than any other team doesn't mean we have to spend it. Nene isn't a home run. Oden could be. If we signed Nene, we may be a 5th seed in the East. 4 years from now I think we'd look back and say that it was a lateral move. If Oden pans, we could be a top 3 seed. If Oden doesn't pan out? We're no worse than we were before we signed him.

ECKrueger
05-06-2011, 09:56 PM
I think Tyler may put up Nene-type numbers, but Nene is a bigger body in the middle that can be a good starting 4 and great back-up 5.

BringJackBack
05-06-2011, 10:02 PM
Sure, Tyler can put up 15 and 8, just like Nene.

Only difference is that Nene can do it with 60+ field goal percentage and a much higher rebounding percentage. Whereas Tyler would do it with around 43-44 field goal percentage and struggling mightily on rebounding with bigger guys.

If we got Nene, he would give us much, much needed balance. He can score off of other guys, and he can create for himself. Plus he'd be our defensive anchor.

itzryan07
05-06-2011, 11:31 PM
Collison/Gordon/George/Nene/Hibbert is a lineup that will be insanely good for us and also Tyler as the sixth man.

I'm really hoping to see this.

yea, or Mayo at the 2 which is probably more realistic. No matter what i don't want George on the bench. Trade DG for Gordon would work. George is just so special, let him grow

beast23
05-06-2011, 11:44 PM
yea, or Mayo at the 2 which is probably more realistic. No matter what i don't want George on the bench. Trade DG for Gordon would work. George is just so special, let him grow
No! A thousand times "Hell, no!"

The idea is not to trade Granger, but instead to add to him.

That can be accomplished by adding a very good PF who is capable of defending the paint/rim and rebound as well as score when the opportunity presents itself.

As long as George is capable of defending PGs, SGs and SFs, I'd play him at SG. A player with his athletic abilities and length not only presents problems for opposing players at his position when he defends them, but will present even more problems for opponents as his offensive skills improve.

Assuming that George does expand/improve his offensive game, the Pacers would improve tremendously by doing nothing more than acquiring the well-rounded PF that they need so badly.