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rwill784
04-28-2011, 05:50 PM
Would you guys be open to trying to get Andre Igoudala from Philly to play the SG position? I read that his time maybe up in Philly, and it would give Danny someone to run with. I am high on George but defense aside, he has a lot to work on on offense to reach his potential.

Iggy has a couple of years left on his contract, but I'd think we could absorb it for the little bit of years left.

O.T-Can someone help me fix my view of threads? It displays them in a backwards order with the 1st page being the last posts. I just want to know how to fix that to view in regular order please....thanks:D

DGPR
04-28-2011, 05:53 PM
This seems like something that's been discussed before..........

Young
04-28-2011, 05:54 PM
A lot of people are high on Iggy on this board. It has been discused a lot in previous threads.

I like his game. I think him, Danny, and Paul would make one of the best SG-SF rotations in the league.

There are two concerns I have with him:
- The Pacers need someone who can score especially in the half-court. Iggy would not help with that. At least he won't be that guy who can score 18-20 per night along with Danny.
- His contract bothers me considering that the new CBA is unknown. This makes taking on any large contract very risky.

pacer4ever
04-28-2011, 06:00 PM
why would phily trade iggy? They would proably want to add to iggy unless we gave them a package they couldnt refuse.

Larry Staverman
04-28-2011, 06:28 PM
Lets review some numbers

2011 Playoffs per 36 minutes

Iggy 11.4 pts
7.0 rebs

George 8.2 pts
6.8 rebs

2011-12 Salaries

Iggy $13.5 mill
George $ 2.4 mill

With PG's defense and upside I will pass!

Kraft
04-28-2011, 06:29 PM
Just not enough of an offensive player to fit the need.

IndyPacer
04-28-2011, 06:54 PM
I'm absolutely stunned that there are Pacers fans who just watched this series against the Bulls and want to trade Paul George. That series told me he's a key component of this franchise's future. He STAYS!

Anthem
04-28-2011, 06:57 PM
I'm absolutely stunned that there are Pacers fans who just watched this series against the Bulls and want to trade Paul George.
I don't see anyone saying that.

ECKrueger
04-28-2011, 07:01 PM
I would love to add Iggy without getting rid of PG.

yoadknux
04-28-2011, 07:03 PM
Before the trade deadline I really really wanted to get him because I thought he's a guy who can fix a lot of stuff for us, he can just do so many things.
1. not a shooter, but more of an inside finisher, and if he does shoot it's off the dribble
2. a great defender
3. can help run the offense with DC
4. decent rebounder

The only problem with him is that he's pretty limited when it comes down to putting the ball in the basket... He's not a big improvement over what we've got now in terms of scoring.
And yes Philli are in cap hell. But what can we offer for him? Rush+Picks? I don't think it's good enough.

Don't get me wrong, getting him without losing our core guys can turn us into a top 6 team in the east

DC / AJ
Iggy / George
Danny / Jones
(Nene/West/Landry) / Tyler
Roy / Foster

But... What are we willing to give?

PR07
04-28-2011, 07:18 PM
We need a #1 scorer, Iggy is not any better than Granger in that regard. In fact, he's probably worse.

rwill784
04-28-2011, 07:24 PM
why would phily trade iggy? They would proably want to add to iggy unless we gave them a package they couldnt refuse.

Philly is in cap hell as another poster stated. They have a great up and coming team but are handcuffed with Iggy and Brands contract. They'd prolly do a deal like LAC did with Cleveland just to unload Barons contract. LAC gave up only Baron and a lottery pick and got Mo Williams and Moon. The addition was great because Baron didn't fit in their plans and this draft kinda sucks, and just to rid Barons contract it was well worth it.

Now Iggy on the other hand is still a great player, capable of posting 19/6/8 and if on a good team takes Joe Johnsons spot at the ASG. Philly and him need to end it this summer, because Evan Turner is most effective with the ball, and Jrue Holliday needs the ball as well. Now that's cool having two players who drive the offense, but it's a little too much with Iggy there as well. And they also have Thad Young who can run the 3 as well.

O.T-Can someone pleaseeeee tell me how to change how I am viewing the threads??? I didnt even know someone responded.

yoadknux
04-28-2011, 07:28 PM
By the way, uhh...

Andre Iguodala did not show up for his exit meeting with Sixers officials today, multiple sources have told the Daily News.

Iguodala was the only player who did not have an individual meeting with coach Doug Collins, team president Rod Thorn and general manager Ed Stefanski a day after the Sixers were eliminated from the playoffs in five games by the Miami Heat.


http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sixerville/Sources-Iguodala-a-no-show-at-meeting-with-team-officials.html

Rwill784 - I had that problem as well, check this thread
http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=62838

Oliver
04-28-2011, 07:31 PM
While I'm not an overall fan of Iggy's game, I think he could be potentially very valuable to the Pacers. His athleticism and ability to drive to the hoop collapsing the D is what our team is really lacking at the 2. His defense is a plus. I'm pretty much 50/50 on him. I want somebody but I'm not sure he is the best option yet.

rwill784
04-28-2011, 07:32 PM
We need a #1 scorer, Iggy is not any better than Granger in that regard. In fact, he's probably worse.

No we don't, we need a player who can take the pressure off of Danny. He can be of equal talent or a little better but we don't need a ball hog. San Antonio, Memphis, Portland, Boston, Detroit (chip years), Sacramento (playoff yrs) and etc are good TEAMS. They are deadly because they have a group of players who all can drop 20 at any night. Those teams IMHO are the hardest to beat. We were easy to beat because we only had ONE real threat. Collison is a distributor and isn't gonna drop 20+ a lot, Tyler is coming on but looks to be best off the bench, Roy is developing, and PG isn't there yet.

Granger is a 20+ ppg player and Allstar we don't need to break the bank for a ball hog.

rwill784
04-28-2011, 07:37 PM
By the way, uhh...

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sixerville/Sources-Iguodala-a-no-show-at-meeting-with-team-officials.html

Rwill784 - I had that problem as well, check this thread
http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=62838

THANK YOU!!!!!:dance:

rwill784
04-28-2011, 07:54 PM
Before the trade deadline I really really wanted to get him because I thought he's a guy who can fix a lot of stuff for us, he can just do so many things.
1. not a shooter, but more of an inside finisher, and if he does shoot it's off the dribble
2. a great defender
3. can help run the offense with DC
4. decent rebounder

The only problem with him is that he's pretty limited when it comes down to putting the ball in the basket... He's not a big improvement over what we've got now in terms of scoring.
And yes Philli are in cap hell. But what can we offer for him? Rush+Picks? I don't think it's good enough.

Don't get me wrong, getting him without losing our core guys can turn us into a top 6 team in the east

DC / AJ
Iggy / George
Danny / Jones
(Nene/West/Landry) / Tyler
Roy / Foster

But... What are we willing to give?

IDK, but that team would be a top 4 team in the east!
If we could get NeNe or West we automatically become a fave. Ppl need to realize we are only like 3 players away from being a 50 win team.

Scoring SG-Iggy, Mayo, JR Smith, Wilson Chandler, RIP, Nick Young, Rodney Stuckey
Rebounding/average scoring PF-Gasol,Nene, Landry, West, Love?, Glenn Davis, Jeff Green
Bench Scoring...Grabbing at least 2 of those needs help this out. You get a PF Tyler, Dante, Josh, and Rush is a fine second unit. Maybe we could grab a backup pg.

This team needs depth this summer, then next you make bids for the Love's, Gordons, and other stars.

rwill784
04-28-2011, 07:57 PM
Lets review some numbers

2011 Playoffs per 36 minutes

Iggy 11.4 pts
7.0 rebs

George 8.2 pts
6.8 rebs

2011-12 Salaries

Iggy $13.5 mill
George $ 2.4 mill

With PG's defense and upside I will pass!

lol, you do know Iggy is the top 3 best defensive SF/SG in the league right? And he hurt his knee before the playoffs, a player like him needs his explosiveness to be effective and a hurt knee hampers that.

Young
04-28-2011, 08:35 PM
No we don't, we need a player who can take the pressure off of Danny. He can be of equal talent or a little better but we don't need a ball hog. San Antonio, Memphis, Portland, Boston, Detroit (chip years), Sacramento (playoff yrs) and etc are good TEAMS. They are deadly because they have a group of players who all can drop 20 at any night. Those teams IMHO are the hardest to beat. We were easy to beat because we only had ONE real threat. Collison is a distributor and isn't gonna drop 20+ a lot, Tyler is coming on but looks to be best off the bench, Roy is developing, and PG isn't there yet.

Granger is a 20+ ppg player and Allstar we don't need to break the bank for a ball hog.

I agree with much of what you say. However...

Most players who average 20+ points per game have probably been called a ball hog at one time or another.

Yes the Pacers have to build their team similar to how Portland, Boston, Detroit, etc built theirs. The problem is the only Pacer who can average 20 points on a good team is Danny. As you said Tyler, Roy, Darren, and Paul are not capable of doing that as of right now. I think Iggy is good for around 15 per game on a good team but not 20 or more.

eldubious
04-28-2011, 11:53 PM
After watching the series against the Bulls one thing became evident, we need a PG. Collison is a pass first PG who can't run an offense. If I'm the Pacers, I will do whatever it takes to get Deron Williams. This season will only help the Pacers in moving forward, free agents may take notice of this franchise and its future.

PS Oden is also available.

vnzla81
04-28-2011, 11:58 PM
After watching the series against the Bulls one thing became evident, we need a PG. Collison is a pass first PG who can't run an offense. If I'm the Pacers, I will do whatever it takes to get Deron Williams. This season will only help the Pacers in moving forward, free agents may take notice of this franchise and its future.

PS Oden is also available.

Collison is a pass first PG?

daschysta
04-29-2011, 12:02 AM
Collison was playing hurt.

He looked great when he was healthy for game one, and was great until he got hurt in game two.

He wasn't near 100 percent.

Starting Power forward is a bigger concern by far.

judicata
04-29-2011, 12:03 AM
I agree with the folks that think that it would be duplicative of George now that his defense is 1st tier and he can get to the rack on demand. If he can work on finishing over the off season I think we look elsewhere for a talent upgrade. Our wings will be George/Granger/Jones, I like that a lot. If we keep our pick we might get a Singleton type of player. I don't see a compelling reason to adjust our wings unless we can get a star player.

IndyPacer
04-29-2011, 12:07 AM
I don't see anyone saying that.

I'll amend what I said; I misspoke a bit in my post.

This reflects what I meant to say:

I'm absolutely stunned that there are Pacers fans who just watched this series against the Bulls and are already seriously considering trades involving Paul George.

I do not want to see him traded unless it involves a massive upgrade. Paul George may end up being as good or better than either Danny or Iggy, so I'm very much against letting him go right now.

Constellations
04-29-2011, 12:43 AM
I'll be honest. I love Iggy and would absolutely love to have him. He would definitley take alot of pressure off of Danny's back in scoring terms. And this guy can run the offense like a PG.

Just a bonus as well, Danny and Iggy became good friends on the 2011 Gold Medal USA team. So having good chemistry between those too would be an awesome duo.

CableKC
04-29-2011, 03:02 AM
I would love to add Iggy without getting rid of PG.
I would too....but that wouldn't happen.

CooperManning
04-29-2011, 03:06 AM
Iggy would be great on the Pacers, but he's more or less the Sixers' version of Danny: worth more than they're going to get for him.

Taterhead
04-29-2011, 04:15 AM
I really like an Igoudala, Granger and George trio on the wings. That is a great mix on the perimeter. People forget that from 2006-2010 Igoudala averaged 18-5-5 while playing high level perimeter defense. And in his last trip to the playoffs in 08-09 he averaged 22-6-6 in a six game series vs. Orlando. The guy is capable and one of the best all around players in the league.

I think Igoudala just needs a change of scenery and he'll return to his previous form. It's a no brainer we should be interested. I would rather have him than Mayo.

rwill784
04-29-2011, 03:15 PM
Iggy has been hurt for sometime I read on a philly board. He has been toughing it out for the team, you tell me you don't want a constant triple double threat on the team and I punch u in the nuts....lol.

Dudes a beast on the floor, he's just not a number one option, sometimes you don't need one to be sucessfull but rather a 1-2 punch who can feed off eachother. I can see that with Mayo or Iggy. We have great team defense with vogel calling the shots and its our offense that needs a boost. Mayo or iggy give us that instantly. Because Granger is a good player but I place him in the Paul Pierce category. He just needs help.

15th parallel
04-29-2011, 03:32 PM
Rather than Iggy, why not aim at Holiday? Not that the Sixers are currently open for Holiday trade talks but he's the guy that will definitely solve our problems more than Iggy does. He provides size in PG spot, plus he's an up-and-coming player that is young and lots of potential. Iggy will definitely solidify the wings, but there will definitely a logjam in playing time against Granger, Iggy and George (unless you play Danny some minutes at PF).

rwill784
04-29-2011, 06:33 PM
Rather than Iggy, why not aim at Holiday? Not that the Sixers are currently open for Holiday trade talks but he's the guy that will definitely solve our problems more than Iggy does. He provides size in PG spot, plus he's an up-and-coming player that is young and lots of potential. Iggy will definitely solidify the wings, but there will definitely a logjam in playing time against Granger, Iggy and George (unless you play Danny some minutes at PF).

Why give up on Collison? And Holiday is their future. I see him maturing into a Russell Westbrook clone. The sixers have a bright future ahead of them as do we.

Holiday/Williams
Iggy/Meeks(very underrated shooter)
Turner/Nocioni
Brand/Young (Soon to be sixth man of the year)
???/Hawes/Speights

DC/???
PG/FA???
Danny/Dunleavy
Tyler/McBob
Hibbert/???

FILL THE ??? MARKS LARRY!!!!:confused:

beast23
04-29-2011, 10:00 PM
Igoudala has been on my list for some time now. However, I do NOT see SG as our primary need. I do believe that having a very good (or even great) defender next to Collison should be a priority. I believe that Paul George has proven that he is very capable of providing excellent defense at SG. I also believe that George will show improvement in his offensive game next season... possibly significant improvement.

That being said, I would concentrate on the PF that we need to play next to Hibbert. I believe that Hansbrough will continue to improve, I just don't believe he will soon become the defensive presence we need to pair with Hibbert. And, at least from my perspective, he may never become a good match with Hibbert defensively.

So, among players that either are available through FA or might be available through trades, my #1 acquisition would be Josh Smith. He significantly strengthens the frontcourt defensive while also being able to rebound and score points and his defensive presence could possibly be the one factor that would enable the Pacers to pass on an Igoudala and remain patient with George's development.

In fact, if we were able to attract Josh Smith, it bodes well for the team in its building process to the point that they could then take the time to go after Eric Gordon. Of course, if the Pacers acquired Gordon, they would then have to re-address the defense in the backcourt. However, having Gordon's offensive closing abilities would probably trump any defensive problems that might be experienced... especially with a player like Josh Smith in the frontcourt to help overcome them.

In a couple of years, who knows? Perhaps the following:

PG - Collison / ? / Stephenson
SG - Gordon / George / DJones
SF - Granger / George / ?
PF - Smith / Hansbrough / ?
C - Hibbert / McRoberts / ?

rwill784
04-30-2011, 07:44 AM
Igoudala has been on my list for some time now. However, I do NOT see SG as our primary need. I do believe that having a very good (or even great) defender next to Collison should be a priority. I believe that Paul George has proven that he is very capable of providing excellent defense at SG. I also believe that George will show improvement in his offensive game next season... possibly significant improvement.

That being said, I would concentrate on the PF that we need to play next to Hibbert. I believe that Hansbrough will continue to improve, I just don't believe he will soon become the defensive presence we need to pair with Hibbert. And, at least from my perspective, he may never become a good match with Hibbert defensively.

So, among players that either are available through FA or might be available through trades, my #1 acquisition would be Josh Smith. He significantly strengthens the frontcourt defensive while also being able to rebound and score points and his defensive presence could possibly be the one factor that would enable the Pacers to pass on an Igoudala and remain patient with George's development.

In fact, if we were able to attract Josh Smith, it bodes well for the team in its building process to the point that they could then take the time to go after Eric Gordon. Of course, if the Pacers acquired Gordon, they would then have to re-address the defense in the backcourt. However, having Gordon's offensive closing abilities would probably trump any defensive problems that might be experienced... especially with a player like Josh Smith in the frontcourt to help overcome them.

In a couple of years, who knows? Perhaps the following:

PG - Collison / ? / Stephenson
SG - Gordon / George / DJones
SF - Granger / George / ?
PF - Smith / Hansbrough / ?
C - Hibbert / McRoberts / ?
Idk what the thing is with you guys and Gordon, maybe its the Indy thing but some of you guys gotta start wacthing Clipper games. Gordon is not a closer, in fact i'd rather give the ball to danny in a clutch situation before gordon. Gordon has been given the keys to do it on a few occasions this and last year and either loses the ball or commits a turnover.

And also gordon is a excellent defender, he's short at 6'3 but he's become a very good defender often gaurding a teams best guard. So he and DC (who is a above average defender) would do good together in the backcourt.

Idk maybe its just me but I don't see LAC giving EJ a chance to walk. He's prolly going to stay with Blake.

I like DC but I'm not a huge fan on the tyler selection when Holliday was still there. DC is a poormans Paul if given the chance and proper offensive scheme.

CableKC
04-30-2011, 11:48 AM
I know that it's blasphemy to consider it....but I'd consider trading Granger straight up for Iggy and then shift PG over to the Starting SF spot.

Iggy is a far better creator then Granger is. If the FO doesn't think that PG is ready to take over the Starting SF spot.....since the SF Free Agent Market appears to be better then the SG Free Agent Market....I'd get Iggy and then go after Caron Butler, Tayshaun, AK47 or Wilson Chandler at the Starting SF spot in FA.

But if the FO wants to stick with Granger....despite what many of you think of PG ( and I am sure that I am in in the minority here ), I'd consider a PG+1st for Iggy trade if the Sixers are willing to do that.

BringJackBack
04-30-2011, 12:02 PM
I'd stick with Granger...put guys around him and he will flourish. Just like he did in the Playoffs. Igoudala didn't.

CableKC
04-30-2011, 12:14 PM
I'd stick with Granger...put guys around him and he will flourish. Just like he did in the Playoffs. Igoudala didn't.
Who did Iggy have on his Team that allowed him to flourish?

A better Starting PG and Brand?

Not much of a better supporting cast then Granger IMHO.

PR07
04-30-2011, 01:44 PM
Where does acquiring Iggy leave someone like Paul George? George is a guy who needs to expand his role with the team, and there has to be opportunity to do so.

mattie
04-30-2011, 04:10 PM
Where does acquiring Iggy leave someone like Paul George? George is a guy who needs to expand his role with the team, and there has to be opportunity to do so.

Exactly.

Signing anyone that could eat up valuable cap space at 2 guard is borderline insane. That is not how you build winners-

Think about what you want to do folks. You want to trade players from a current talentless team just so you can start them over the 1 guy on our team who could turn into a legit perennial all-star?

We have positions on this team that need upgraded... PF, possibly PG and possibly even center. But 2g? Absolutely not.

I wouldn't even trade McBob for OJ Mayo's bad attitude and sub-par scoring ability.

Paul needs to be forced to play 35 minutes and develop his scoring ability next season, if this happens we'll have a much cheaper and better version of every possible SG that people have mentioned on this board, whether that was Mayo or Iggy.

yoadknux
04-30-2011, 04:27 PM
But George, as he is now, isn't good enough to start at the SG spot. Iggy is basically a George with slightly better scoring & way better all around game.
Of course the optimal scenario is adding no one to the SG spot and pray George turns into a superstar, but the realistic scenario is to make your team better any way you can. If George is that much of a superstar, he'll earn his place off the bench.
I'm not saying "Add Iggy at all costs", but they are shopping him, if we can get a good deal for him then we should do it.

mattie
04-30-2011, 04:57 PM
But George, as he is now, isn't good enough to start at the SG spot. Iggy is basically a George with slightly better scoring & way better all around game.
Of course the optimal scenario is adding no one to the SG spot and pray George turns into a superstar, but the realistic scenario is to make your team better any way you can. If George is that much of a superstar, he'll earn his place off the bench.
I'm not saying "Add Iggy at all costs", but they are shopping him, if we can get a good deal for him then we should do it.

That makes sense if the SG is the only position that needs upgraded. Then that would be the right move. But considering we know we need upgrades at PF and PG if we're ever going to win, I wouldn't want to waste any cap space on the SG.

I believe if you want to win you have to horde cap space at all costs. See if we allow Paul George 35 minutes and see if he can throw up 15 a game, if he can he'll be a solid starter. Worst case scenario? in 2/3 years we look to find a 2 guard if George doesn't pan out.

eldubious
05-01-2011, 12:21 PM
Collison is a pass first PG?

He's a shoot first, second, then pass PG.

cgehlhausen4
05-01-2011, 12:25 PM
They have talked about it for a while. Id like to see Iggy here but If you are tryin to throw george in a trade to get him, no way.

yoadknux
05-01-2011, 01:48 PM
That makes sense if the SG is the only position that needs upgraded. Then that would be the right move. But considering we know we need upgrades at PF and PG if we're ever going to win, I wouldn't want to waste any cap space on the SG.

I believe if you want to win you have to horde cap space at all costs. See if we allow Paul George 35 minutes and see if he can throw up 15 a game, if he can he'll be a solid starter. Worst case scenario? in 2/3 years we look to find a 2 guard if George doesn't pan out.
Our pg spot is fine, and Iggy can help run the offense as well. I don't see any available PG upgrades as well. Our top priority is to upgrade either the SG or the PF, and since Iggy is available and is an upgrade, I'd take him.

In 2-3 years the players you have now will not be here, or will not be as good. You won't have the same Granger. You might end up without Roy (expires next year), Tyler (expires 2 years), DC (2 years)
You can't put the entire team on "hold" to see if Paul George turns into a superstar. It's too much. I'd take any available upgrade as long as it can make us better. And I think adding Iggy, with a decent PF (through trades or free agency), will make us a top 5-6 in the east, rather than the "might make the playoffs" team we have now.
Guys you gotta understand, we played good in the playoffs, which is great, but next year, if we do not change our starting 5, we'll be lucky to hit .500 . We almost failed to make the playoffs this year with this starting 5.

BringJackBack
05-01-2011, 02:20 PM
Guys you gotta understand, we played good in the playoffs, which is great, but next year, if we do not change our starting 5, we'll be lucky to hit .500 . We almost failed to make the playoffs this year with this starting 5.

I call BS.

We were 20-18 once Vogel took over with this roster. That correlates to around 44-45 wins. Take away the 6 game losing streak which was caused by Lance, Posey, and Solo (Solo and Foster being put in due to Foster's injury and Roy's foul trouble and Lance so that he could get some experience) being put into the rotation in which we should have went about 3-3 and that adds up to about 47-48 wins.

Expect DC, George, Hibbert, Hansbrough, and Granger to significantly improve on their games during the summer for next year. With a DC/George/Granger/Hans/Hibbert starting five I think that we can challenge 45 wins next year.

Get some upgrades at the 2 and the 4 and that can only make us better as well.

rwill784
05-01-2011, 02:35 PM
I call BS.

We were 20-18 once Vogel took over with this roster. That correlates to around 44-45 wins. Take away the 6 game losing streak which was caused by Lance, Posey, and Solo (Solo and Foster being put in due to Foster's injury and Roy's foul trouble and Lance so that he could get some experience) being put into the rotation in which we should have went about 3-3 and that adds up to about 47-48 wins.

Expect DC, George, Hibbert, Hansbrough, and Granger to significantly improve on their games during the summer for next year. With a DC/George/Granger/Hans/Hibbert starting five I think that we can challenge 45 wins next year.

Get some upgrades at the 2 and the 4 and that can only make us better as well.

I agree, we seriously need to lump together Rush/McBob/Foster/Ford and get help at the SG and PF position. There is no way in hell we go any further in the seedings with Tyler as a starter. I'm not a hater of him but he adds nothing to our interior D and he's too streaky of a scorer, he reminds me of Darius Songalia, best coming off the bench and being a contributor from the second unit...BUT JEEZ DO I WISH WE PICKED HOLIDAY!!!!

Darren is cool, I think maybe with a better more normal offense his assist numbers climb to at least 8 per game. Ppl forget that dude was basically a top 5 PG when Paul got hurt, and it doesn't help him that outside of Danny his dimes will go without credit because we don't have a lot of scorers who do anything when he sets them up. DC should do well in his JR yr with the sophmore slump behind him.

But I think we need to press the issue and get OJ like we wanted, and possibly get a upgrade at the 4 in the draft. We could use a scorer at the 4 but we really need a rebounder/enforcer in the paint. If we get OJ we don't need all 5 positions to be scorers. Hibbert with some actual help down low could finally be a 18/10/1.5 guy that we saw at the beginning of the yr.

rwill784
05-01-2011, 02:39 PM
I call BS.

We were 20-18 once Vogel took over with this roster. That correlates to around 44-45 wins. Take away the 6 game losing streak which was caused by Lance, Posey, and Solo (Solo and Foster being put in due to Foster's injury and Roy's foul trouble and Lance so that he could get some experience) being put into the rotation in which we should have went about 3-3 and that adds up to about 47-48 wins.

Expect DC, George, Hibbert, Hansbrough, and Granger to significantly improve on their games during the summer for next year. With a DC/George/Granger/Hans/Hibbert starting five I think that we can challenge 45 wins next year.

Get some upgrades at the 2 and the 4 and that can only make us better as well.

Yeah, you have to account the fact that we were going to lose at least 10 due to just having a new coach, and we still won 20. A good training camp makes us at least a 45 win squad

yoadknux
05-01-2011, 04:00 PM
I don't know. I still think we're not a 45 win team. Atlanta is a 45 win team, can you compare their roster to ours? :rolleyes:
We will be as good as Philly were this year. And if Philly stays with their current roster, we might be in trouble because we will probably need to compete with the Nets & 76ers for the final spots.

BringJackBack
05-01-2011, 04:20 PM
I don't know. I still think we're not a 45 win team. Atlanta is a 45 win team, can you compare their roster to ours? :rolleyes:
We will be as good as Philly were this year. And if Philly stays with their current roster, we might be in trouble because we will probably need to compete with the Nets & 76ers for the final spots.

Problem w/ Atlanta has nothing to do with talent.. It's their mental makeup, coaching, and lack of depth/PG play. If they had a bench and played with great intensity they could win a lot more games than 45 in my opinion.

daschysta
05-01-2011, 04:39 PM
I don't know. I still think we're not a 45 win team. Atlanta is a 45 win team, can you compare their roster to ours? :rolleyes:
We will be as good as Philly were this year. And if Philly stays with their current roster, we might be in trouble because we will probably need to compete with the Nets & 76ers for the final spots.


Atlanta had chemistry and injury issues this year, it was simply a down year for them.

We've seen their exact same roster win 50 plus before. With a good training camp i could optimistically predict 45 wins barring no moves. We were on that pace under frank, despite losing some inexplicably bad games during the chemistry induced losing streak (minny anyone?).

The playoff experience gives us more confidence against top level teams too, and i'd wager we'll steal a few more of those close games against good teams than we did this year. Plus we'll have a full season of continuity (hopefully) and Darren, Hibbert, and George all could potentially make significant jumps in their game.

I'd comfortably say were at least .500 with the potential to be better than that by a bit.

One more really good piece like a nene and I don't think 50 wins is that unreasonable.

rwill784
05-01-2011, 05:06 PM
Atlanta had chemistry and injury issues this year, it was simply a down year for them.

We've seen their exact same roster win 50 plus before. With a good training camp i could optimistically predict 45 wins barring no moves. We were on that pace under frank, despite losing some inexplicably bad games during the chemistry induced losing streak (minny anyone?).

The playoff experience gives us more confidence against top level teams too, and i'd wager we'll steal a few more of those close games against good teams than we did this year. Plus we'll have a full season of continuity (hopefully) and Darren, Hibbert, and George all could potentially make significant jumps in their game.

I'd comfortably say were at least .500 with the potential to be better than that by a bit.

One more really good piece like a nene and I don't think 50 wins is that unreasonable.

If milwaukee could win 50 and chicago could with only one good player, we can too. All it takes is good coaching

MyFavMartin
05-01-2011, 05:48 PM
There's a bunch of wings available in FA this summer (JRich/Jamal Crawford/Caron Butler/DeShawn Stevenson/JR Smith/Rasual Butler/Tayshaun/Battier/James Jones/Michael Redd/Willie Green/Corey Brewer/Jason Kapano/Grant Hill/Marquis Daniels/Al Thornton), some of which would be good fits and one might use that as leverage against the 76ers.

There's other teams that have salary cap space but I'd offer PG and our pick for Iggy and Speights and see if they bite, though this wouldn't be the first line of pursuit that I'd seek (ie Chandler and JR Smith or Mayo in FA). I love PG, but Speights would address our starting PF position and solidify our front court while getting a talented and defensive minded, veteran SG.

PG:Collison/Price/Lance

Wing:Iggy/Rush/DG/Dahntay

FC: Speights/Hibbert/Tyler/Foster(resign)

Justin Tyme
05-01-2011, 07:14 PM
Our pg spot is fine, and Iggy can help run the offense as well. I don't see any available PG upgrades as well. Our top priority is to upgrade either the SG or the PF, and since Iggy is available and is an upgrade, I'd take him.

In 2-3 years the players you have now will not be here, or will not be as good. You won't have the same Granger. You might end up without Roy (expires next year), Tyler (expires 2 years), DC (2 years)
You can't put the entire team on "hold" to see if Paul George turns into a superstar. It's too much. I'd take any available upgrade as long as it can make us better. And I think adding Iggy, with a decent PF (through trades or free agency), will make us a top 5-6 in the east, rather than the "might make the playoffs" team we have now.
Guys you gotta understand, we played good in the playoffs, which is great, but next year, if we do not change our starting 5, we'll be lucky to hit .500 . We almost failed to make the playoffs this year with this starting 5.


Are you not expecting Hibbert, DC, PG, and Hans being better next year, but staying the same as they are? I would hope all 4 step up their games. Add a quality starting PF, a b/u center, and a quality b/u PG and this team should be in good shape to challenge for a 5-6 seed.

yoadknux
05-01-2011, 07:41 PM
Are you not expecting Hibbert, DC, PG, and Hans being better next year, but staying the same as they are? I would hope all 4 step up their games. Add a quality starting PF, a b/u center, and a quality b/u PG and this team should be in good shape to challenge for a 5-6 seed.
Of course I expect them to get better, but I don't think they'll improve drastically, or enough to get us 45 wins

xIndyFan
05-01-2011, 08:37 PM
DC/???
PG/FA???
Danny/Dunleavy
Tyler/McBob
Hibbert/???

FILL THE ??? MARKS LARRY!!!!:confused:

i think larry's roster looks more like this.

DC/lance
PG/new guy #1
DG
new guy #2/tyler
roy

new guy #1 is a rodney stuckey/OJ mayo type. combo guard type that can score in isolation. someone who can shoot. not like igoudala at all

new guy #2 is the guy bird wants to spend money on, imo at least. a Nene/Al Horford type that can play both the 4 and 5. he has to be athletic, rebound, defend for sure. and shotblock. plus it would be nice if he can score.

15th parallel
05-01-2011, 09:30 PM
Why give up on Collison? And Holiday is their future. I see him maturing into a Russell Westbrook clone. The sixers have a bright future ahead of them as do we.

Holiday/Williams
Iggy/Meeks(very underrated shooter)
Turner/Nocioni
Brand/Young (Soon to be sixth man of the year)
???/Hawes/Speights

DC/???
PG/FA???
Danny/Dunleavy
Tyler/McBob
Hibbert/???

FILL THE ??? MARKS LARRY!!!!:confused:

Not really giving up on DC, but there's no question we need another guy to upgrade the PG spot. And in my earlier post I said that it's not like the Sixers are open to trade for Holiday, but they can try inquiring about him first IMO before we aim at Iggy. Iggy is good, and the wing combo will certainly become formidable when he's in there, but I believe the Pacers have more open issues on other spots, mainly on the Center position (Hibbert is the only center in the current roster) and PG position.

MyFavMartin
05-02-2011, 09:38 AM
Not really giving up on DC, but there's no question we need another guy to upgrade the PG spot. And in my earlier post I said that it's not like the Sixers are open to trade for Holiday, but they can try inquiring about him first IMO before we aim at Iggy. Iggy is good, and the wing combo will certainly become formidable when he's in there, but I believe the Pacers have more open issues on other spots, mainly on the Center position (Hibbert is the only center in the current roster) and PG position.

I thought DC played well this season and I'm pretty pleased with him as our starting PG next season.

MyFavMartin
05-02-2011, 09:41 AM
i think larry's roster looks more like this.

DC/lance
PG/new guy #1
DG
new guy #2/tyler
roy

new guy #1 is a rodney stuckey/OJ mayo type. combo guard type that can score in isolation. someone who can shoot. not like igoudala at all

new guy #2 is the guy bird wants to spend money on, imo at least. a Nene/Al Horford type that can play both the 4 and 5. he has to be athletic, rebound, defend for sure. and shotblock. plus it would be nice if he can score.

Good post, though I think Iggy is quite talented and would help the team, though I agree that getting someone who can create his own shot would be better.

I didn't realize Stuckey was so tall. He's a RFA this summer. Any chance that Detroit doesn't match?

rwill784
05-02-2011, 12:13 PM
Good post, though I think Iggy is quite talented and would help the team, though I agree that getting someone who can create his own shot would be better.

I didn't realize Stuckey was so tall. He's a RFA this summer. Any chance that Detroit doesn't match?

Please god no, stuckey can't shoot to save his life. He's better served comming off the bench, he's not a starter at all. We need to get a shooter to spread the floor, if we get mayo I say go sign someone like jodie meeks who is freaking lights out at the line. I think dude shot like 40 percent from 3.

naptownmenace
05-02-2011, 12:24 PM
This seems like something that's been discussed before..........

It's been brought up almost every year for the past 3 years.

Iggy is like Paul Pierce before Ray Allen and KG arrived in the sense that his name comes up in a ton of trade rumors every season because in Philly he's a guy that the coach always wants to be something more or different than he is.

If you accept that Iggy is a player that plays great defense, is a good passer, rebounder, and is a number 2 or number 3 scorer, you'll have a great player on your hands. When you start expecting him to be a 3-point shooter and scorer is when you'll be disappointed. He's like a Brandon Rush - the Super Edition.

With all that said, I'd love it if he was on the Pacers team. I just woudn't want to trade Granger or George for him. I'm sure the Sixers would want one of those 2 players so unless a 3rd team got involved to offer someone else they want, I doubt the Pacers would make a good trade partner.

xIndyFan
05-02-2011, 01:16 PM
Good post, though I think Iggy is quite talented and would help the team, though I agree that getting someone who can create his own shot would be better.

I didn't realize Stuckey was so tall. He's a RFA this summer. Any chance that Detroit doesn't match?

idk,:whoknows: :laugh:.

kstat might be able to tell us what stuckey can and cannot do. and how detroit feels about him. i think the detroit fans have soured on him, but don't know about TPTB there.

detroit seems to be interested in getting value back for him more than actually keeping him. dumars really used to like the guy. but since he cannot play the point, he becomes an undersized SG with a nice handle.

IIRC, he is a decent mid-range shooter, but not a good 3 pt guy. but i could be wrong there. i just don't remember.

edit: he is lance stephenson lite. lance is an inch taller and 20 lbs heavier. wow, lance is big. i've always thought stuckey had really good size. almost 6-4 and 205. lance is 6-4.5 and 227. pre-draft measurements. stuckey is probably bigger now since he is 4 yrs older.

xIndyFan
05-02-2011, 01:58 PM
Please god no, stuckey can't shoot to save his life. He's better served comming off the bench, he's not a starter at all. We need to get a shooter to spread the floor, if we get mayo I say go sign someone like jodie meeks who is freaking lights out at the line. I think dude shot like 40 percent from 3.

i was thinking a guy like stuckey for the 3rd wing. behind danny and paul. maybe kstat can correct me, but i thought stuckey was a pretty good shooter. at least from mid-range.

Gamble1
05-02-2011, 02:07 PM
edit: he is lance stephenson lite. lance is an inch taller and 20 lbs heavier. wow, lance is big. i've always thought stuckey had really good size. almost 6-4 and 205. lance is 6-4.5 and 227. pre-draft measurements. stuckey is probably bigger now since he is 4 yrs older.
Lance was sort of fat in college according to coworker of mine who watched every single game of his.

Personally I think Stuckey would be a good fit as a backup pg or sg but I doubt Stuckey wants to play that role on the Pacers.

pacer4ever
05-02-2011, 04:08 PM
Lance was sort of fat in college according to coworker of mine who watched every single game of his.

Personally I think Stuckey would be a good fit as a backup pg or sg but I doubt Stuckey wants to play that role on the Pacers.

Ya Lance didnt start eating healthy untill he prepred for the draft in an interview he said he didnt know about diet and such all he use to eat was mickey D's lol. He was down to 215-220 at the stat of the season.

Pacerized
05-02-2011, 10:13 PM
Those are my exact thoughts and I hope it's what Bird does. I'd much rather overpay for big man like Nene something close to a max contract then to pay Iggy his 13.5 mil salary next season that goes up to 16 mil in the 2013/14 season just to put up 14 & 6 then disapear in the playoffs.


i think larry's roster looks more like this.

DC/lance
PG/new guy #1
DG
new guy #2/tyler
roy

new guy #1 is a rodney stuckey/OJ mayo type. combo guard type that can score in isolation. someone who can shoot. not like igoudala at all

new guy #2 is the guy bird wants to spend money on, imo at least. a Nene/Al Horford type that can play both the 4 and 5. he has to be athletic, rebound, defend for sure. and shotblock. plus it would be nice if he can score.

Kstat
05-03-2011, 05:22 PM
Dumars is expected to offer stuckey a long term deal, so I think he would match reasonable offers.

That said, the fans have definitely soured on him. His attitude needs a serious correction.

rwill784
05-03-2011, 05:41 PM
Dumars is expected to offer stuckey a long term deal, so I think he would match reasonable offers.

That said, the fans have definitely soured on him. His attitude needs a serious correction.

Yeah, I really don't get Dumars obsession with Stuckey but we seriously don't need him when we have Lance. I still say get OJ, and a defensive/rebounding PF. Then we either have OJ start and Paul come off the pine until he becomes better offensively, or if Paul looks great in the summer as far as shooting make him the starting SG and have OJ come off the bench.

yoadknux
05-04-2011, 08:25 AM
OK, after thinking about it a bit more, we probably can't use Iggy.
Iggy plays the SF spot. He can't play SG because he can't shoot. SG in my eyes needs a lot of off ball movement and having the ability to shoot. So if we're gonna get Iggy we will need to find Granger a new spot, the PF or the SG. The PF spot isn't good because he will need to play vs guys like Amare, Blake, Smith. which is of course bad for us.
The SG spot is more likely to work, but Danny will need a lot of off ball movement. Can he run around all game long? If he can't our offense will be pretty much stuck.
And we can't have Granger guarding SGs imo...
It could work out, who knows, and I think Iggy fits good in "Smashmouth basketball", and our defense will improve, but it's not as good as I thought

mattie
05-04-2011, 08:51 AM
OK, after thinking about it a bit more, we probably can't use Iggy.
Iggy plays the SF spot. He can't play SG because he can't shoot. SG in my eyes needs a lot of off ball movement and having the ability to shoot. So if we're gonna get Iggy we will need to find Granger a new spot, the PF or the SG. The PF spot isn't good because he will need to play vs guys like Amare, Blake, Smith. which is of course bad for us.
The SG spot is more likely to work, but Danny will need a lot of off ball movement. Can he run around all game long? If he can't our offense will be pretty much stuck.
And we can't have Granger guarding SGs imo...
It could work out, who knows, and I think Iggy fits good in "Smashmouth basketball", and our defense will improve, but it's not as good as I thought

It doesn't matter what the skillset is of wings on the offensive is really, as long as they can guard the corresponding player on defense. Iggy and Danny would probably work together very well. One can create and one is a shooter.

xBulletproof
05-04-2011, 11:06 AM
OK, after thinking about it a bit more, we probably can't use Iggy.
Iggy plays the SF spot. He can't play SG because he can't shoot. SG in my eyes needs a lot of off ball movement and having the ability to shoot. So if we're gonna get Iggy we will need to find Granger a new spot, the PF or the SG. The PF spot isn't good because he will need to play vs guys like Amare, Blake, Smith. which is of course bad for us.
The SG spot is more likely to work, but Danny will need a lot of off ball movement. Can he run around all game long? If he can't our offense will be pretty much stuck.
And we can't have Granger guarding SGs imo...
It could work out, who knows, and I think Iggy fits good in "Smashmouth basketball", and our defense will improve, but it's not as good as I thought

You're thinking way too hard. Just because 'shooting' is in the title of the position it doesn't truthfully mean you have to be the best shooter. The defining attribute to separating the wings is the ability to guard the opposing spot on the floor. Iggy can guard just about any SF/SG. That leaves Danny to just pick whatever is left. Even if Danny isn't the 'shooting guard', he can still be the 'shooter'. Hell, to be honest with Iguodala's ball handling and passing ability in small stretches he could play PG, with Paul George running SG, and Danny playing SF ....

Good lord, what a thought ......

spreedom
05-04-2011, 01:26 PM
You're thinking way too hard. Just because 'shooting' is in the title of the position it doesn't truthfully mean you have to be the best shooter. The defining attribute to separating the wings is the ability to guard the opposing spot on the floor. Iggy can guard just about any SF/SG. That leaves Danny to just pick whatever is left. Even if Danny isn't the 'shooting guard', he can still be the 'shooter'. Hell, to be honest with Iguodala's ball handling and passing ability in small stretches he could play PG, with Paul George running SG, and Danny playing SF ....

Good lord, what a thought ......


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSfN3tJEAIi5jMAuC1jgw1X2yuQ5uOMM gTW9Bw3zl8xI7ud6xmK3aTbFOY (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://danieldickey.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/thats-what-she-said2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://danieldickey.com/thats-what-she-said/&usg=__X2HuG737pTrBl1W2fWPj8Gcf6Sw=&h=390&w=390&sz=15&hl=en&start=13&zoom=1&tbnid=E7UtZEDHM8ZM0M:&tbnh=123&tbnw=123&ei=P4zBTejLGeO80QGF8PGyCg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dthat%2527s%2Bwhat%2Bshe%2Bsaid%26um%3 D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1)

yoadknux
05-04-2011, 01:39 PM
You're thinking way too hard. Just because 'shooting' is in the title of the position it doesn't truthfully mean you have to be the best shooter. The defining attribute to separating the wings is the ability to guard the opposing spot on the floor. Iggy can guard just about any SF/SG. That leaves Danny to just pick whatever is left. Even if Danny isn't the 'shooting guard', he can still be the 'shooter'. Hell, to be honest with Iguodala's ball handling and passing ability in small stretches he could play PG, with Paul George running SG, and Danny playing SF ....

Good lord, what a thought ......
Of course it doesn't mean "your best shooter". But in my eyes a good SG needs to have a lot of off ball movement, and I questioned whether Danny can do it for long stretches.

xBulletproof
05-04-2011, 05:11 PM
Of course it doesn't mean "your best shooter". But in my eyes a good SG needs to have a lot of off ball movement, and I questioned whether Danny can do it for long stretches.

I'm questioning why Danny would be the SG in any scenario anyway.

rwill784
05-05-2011, 08:38 AM
Of course it doesn't mean "your best shooter". But in my eyes a good SG needs to have a lot of off ball movement, and I questioned whether Danny can do it for long stretches.
No it doesnt, the cavs rans with some of the sorriest 2 guards in the world and their offense was fine, same with dallas, chicago, and others. Your sg doesn't need to be a lights out shooter. Because every 2 gaurd in the L isn't one