PDA

View Full Version : ESPN: Granger: Noah 'cowardly'



vapacersfan
04-27-2011, 12:03 PM
I normally hate whining in the press, however in this case I agree. Noah and Boozer both gave some cheap shots, though Josh is an idiot for getting caught. Will be interesting to see if the NBA does anything about the elbow that Josh received, my guess is nothing happens.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6434456



CHICAGO -- Pacers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/ind/indiana-pacers) forward Danny Granger (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2760/danny-granger) said Chicago Bulls (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/chi/chicago-bulls) center Joakim Noah (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3224/joakim-noah) played "cowardly" at times Tuesday, accusing Noah of cheap-shotting his Indiana teammates.

The Bulls' 116-89 victory eliminated the Pacers in five games and capped off a physical series that saw Pacers forward Josh McRoberts (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3220/josh-mcroberts) ejected after a skirmish with Noah on Tuesday. Indiana forward Tyler Hansbrough (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3991/tyler-hansbrough) also tangled with the Bulls' center.

"He pulled a cowardly move," Granger said. "He cheap-shotted a couple of my teammates, and one gets thrown out ...

"The refs never catch what he did ... it's cowardly. And I'm going to say something about it. I wanted to say something about it all the way to the game was over. I just don't think the game should be played that way.

You can play hard and fight and battle, but when you start cheap-shotting people it gets out of hand."

Granger said he was going to talk to Noah after the game, but Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau intervened.

"It's just heat of the battle stuff," Thibodeau said.

Granger praised the rest of the Bulls and said he hopes they win the NBA title.

Noah returned the praise, even after hearing of Granger's frustration.

"I played dirty? OK. I'm just trying to win basketball games, man," Noah said. "It's the name of the game.

"I'm just out there trying to do what I gotta do. Like I said, I give a lot of credit to their team. They play hard as hell. They were competitive. I don't have anything bad to say about them. Everybody saw what happened out there. Now you want to call me a dirty player? I don't think
I've ever been a dirty player. It is what it is. It's OK."

The Pacers were credited with dictating the series' physical style in the first three games, but Noah seemed to turn up the intensity in Game 5.
McRoberts appeared to catch an elbow to the neck when he and Noah battled near the lane. He then tried to return a shot, for which he was assessed a flagrant 2 foul and ejected. But McRoberts didn't agree with Granger's assertion that the play was dirty.

"I'm not mad about it," McRoberts said. "He got a good hit on me. They caught me trying to hit him back.

"It's part of the game. I'm not going to say it's dirty. That's Game 5 of a playoff series. You can't say it's dirty, it's part of basketball."

Bulls guard Kyle Korver (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2011/kyle-korver) was surprised to hear that a Pacer was crying foul.
"Come on now. All this stuff we've talked about with the Pacers the last few days and how they're [giving] hard fouls," Korver said. "Come on. It's the playoffs, right?

"It's the playoffs. That's what it is. There's going to be hard fouls. There's going to be stuff being said. I think they were mad they were down a little bit, and Jo played with a lot of energy. Jo played great. Jo's one of those guys, when you're not on his team he pisses you off. That's just the way it is. He's like Jeff Foster (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/250/jeff-foster). When he's on your team, you love him. When he's on the other team, you hate him. And that's one of the special things about Jo."

rock747
04-27-2011, 12:05 PM
Why won't Noah's elbow be reviewed like Foster's was?

vapacersfan
04-27-2011, 12:08 PM
Why won't Noah's elbow be reviewed like Foster's was?

My asnwer: Hopefully it will

My cynical answer: It will be a 1-0 vote not to review it, and I won :rolleyes:

ECKrueger
04-27-2011, 12:14 PM
**** korver and noah. The noah/Josh incident was not a couple of hard fouls. They were both stupid.

CableKC
04-27-2011, 12:15 PM
It would seem that the Chicago Media and fans are the only ones that think that the Pacers played rough not tough.

Note to Noah and Boozer - Good luck with either Horford/Zaza/JSmoove or Dwight/Bass....their frontcourt is way tougher then Hibbert/Foster/Mcbob/Hansbrough.

The only thing that we, as Pacer fans, can say now is that it doesn't get any easier for the Bulls.

yoadknux
04-27-2011, 12:17 PM
I think Danny should calm down, really:rolleyes:

Brad8888
04-27-2011, 12:17 PM
It is laughable to compare the classless cheapshot artist that Noah is to Jeff Foster. What Jeff did served a purpose, namely to let Chicago know that the Pacers were not going to back down to them, and that nobody would be immune to contact if that is the way the Bulls wanted to play the game. Jeff has never been a dirty player, but in these cases it was obvious that he was very agitated and wanted to make a point. He succeeded, in my view.

At some point in the future, Noah will finally get a very rude awakening. I would LOVE him to try his shenanigans against somebody who can do something about it, like Blake Griffin. Griffin would laugh, and then he would proceed to dish out punishment without fear of retribution, leaving Noah crying to the officials and the media in a way that would make Rasheed Wallace seem like a cool headed player with utmost respect for the officials and other players.

CableKC
04-27-2011, 12:22 PM
I think Danny should calm down, really:rolleyes:
On the surface, yeah.....if we are to take the whole "It's the Playoffs, you don't expect it to be rough out there?" stance when it comes to Foster hard fouling DRose.....then Granger should just grow a tougher skin when it comes to Noah.

But I like that Granger decided to go this route as a Team Leader stepping up and saying it...as he was ( pretty much ) the only one that should being one of the veterans on the Team.

I may not like the way he did it...but I liked that he actually did it in the first place...it shows that he cares...both as a teammate and a leader of this Team.

Major Cold
04-27-2011, 12:47 PM
The series is over with. Please let it go.

graphic-er
04-27-2011, 12:57 PM
The hard fouls on Rose was to prevent easy layups. Its a bit different compared to throwing an elbow to the throat at a player trying to box you out on the rebound.

IUfan4life
04-27-2011, 01:10 PM
everyone is a big baby nowadays. I'm only 21 and I remember the "good ole days" of basketball. Well the precursor generation to this sissy league we have now at least

Isaac
04-27-2011, 01:18 PM
None of the players for either team are dirty. Jeff and Joakim both played hard, tough and fair. When I say hard and tough though, I mean for this era. We aren't seeing Dale David and Charles Oakley out there.

Hicks
04-27-2011, 01:20 PM
Why won't Noah's elbow be reviewed like Foster's was?

Didn't happen on ball, didn't receive a lot of attention during the broadcast, and it didn't happen to one of Stern's golden children.

Roaming Gnome
04-27-2011, 01:33 PM
I know a lot of you are gonna disagree, but...

Shut up, Danny!

After losing the game/series it just sounds like freakin' sour grapes to me.

Unclebuck
04-27-2011, 01:39 PM
Why won't Noah's elbow be reviewed like Foster's was?


how do you know it won't be. Atlhough I don't think there is a great camera angle showing the elbow.

Unclebuck
04-27-2011, 01:41 PM
I know a lot of you are gonna disagree, but...

Shut up, Danny!

After losing the game/series it just sounds like freakin' sour grapes to me.


I agree 100%. I think once the series is over, as a player you have to forgive and forget and only compliment the opposing team. Shake their hands, wish them well. If you play them again next year in the playoffs, that is where you can pick up your grudge - not in the regular season either that is separate.

kellogg
04-27-2011, 01:48 PM
Why won't Noah's elbow be reviewed like Foster's was?

Because it's the Bulls and their NBA- and Media-hyped darling, D Rose.

focused444
04-27-2011, 01:48 PM
This kind of stuff happens even with kids all across America playing in backyards. I do not have a problem with things getting physical. I have more of a problem with the taunting, smiling, parading, after the physical stuff that occurs. A lot of Bulls had s*** eating grins at different times during the game. Cowardly isn't the term I would have gone with as I don't relate bravery with sports for the most part, but I do hope this inspires Danny to push his game to new heights.

Now here's a little thing I've been wondering. If the NBA has decided to institute replay for decisions like the McRoberts ejection, why don't they have the leeway to examine the entire immediate incident? Even if this went against the Pacers in the future I would like the NBA to be able to review the entire sequence. Over and over we hear the announcers say "they never catch the first act" or something along those lines. So being able to review the entire sequence would go a long way to holding players accountable, keeping the game clean, and eliminating accusations of bias. Just a thought.

Derek2k3
04-27-2011, 01:52 PM
My opinion:

1. It wasn't ridiculous, he didn't act illogical. He complimented the team, while pointing out his distaste for the way Noah went after a couple Pacer players. He didn't say Noah was a bad player or anything, he pointed out that he thought Noah cheap shotted a few times. Anyone watching the games would probably agree; while a Foster esque' player lays hard fouls on the ball, Noah throws elbows and grabs off the ball. Totally different.

2. Korver is an idiot. A complete idiot. taking a cheap shot at someone is completely different than laying someone out on a drive.

3. Biggest difference? A Pacer was ejected as a result of the "Playoff" basketball Noah was playing. Had it been any other player it would be double technicals, sit down and calm down. But since Noah already had one T, there was no way they were giving him another. Same as when he got tangled with Tyler. Anytime one player is in the middle of so much trouble, the refs typically give double T's. Well, no such chance because it meant Noah would be tossed.

Tom White
04-27-2011, 01:55 PM
I agree 100%. I think once the series is over, as a player you have to forgive and forget and only compliment the opposing team. Shake their hands, wish them well. If you play them again next year in the playoffs, that is where you can pick up your grudge - not in the regular season either that is separate.

I agree with this except for the last few words. The way the Pacers played in this series should be the start point for the way they approach ALL games.

Welcome back "smashmouth" basketball.

Unclebuck
04-27-2011, 01:56 PM
I agree with this except for the last few words. The way the Pacers played in this series should be the start point for the way they approach ALL games.

Welcome back "smashmouth" basketball.


I'm just talking about if Danny wants to hold a grudge for the Bulls and or Noah take it up next year inthe playoffs, not right after the series is over or in the regular season.

focused444
04-27-2011, 02:01 PM
I agree 100%. I think once the series is over, as a player you have to forgive and forget and only compliment the opposing team. Shake their hands, wish them well. If you play them again next year in the playoffs, that is where you can pick up your grudge - not in the regular season either that is separate.

I agree with forgiving, but I have to believe the next time these teams play in the regular season it will be intense. Not necessarily a grudge, but intensity will be higher than usual for regular season games.

rock747
04-27-2011, 02:01 PM
how do you know it won't be. Atlhough I don't think there is a great camera angle showing the elbow.

Seriously? I will be shocked if it is. NBA isn't going to bring this up again.

Unclebuck
04-27-2011, 02:03 PM
Seriously? I will be shocked if it is. NBA isn't going to bring this up again.


why not. Plus the NBA reviews a lot of plays, a lot more than we ever hear about

MyFavMartin
04-27-2011, 02:04 PM
Replay showed Noah throwing an elbow at Josh's head. I think I'd be upset too. There's a difference between blocking out, even if it's playoff basketball, and actions that are dirty.

psychoTT
04-27-2011, 02:13 PM
Did Granger not see the elbow McRoberts threw in game 4?

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PK5eNSWFB4o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

DemonHunter1105
04-27-2011, 02:13 PM
Well Danny was asked about the stuff at the end, and he gave his honest opinion about it. The fact that he was backing up his teammates makes me respect him a heck of a lot more. Who cares what everyone else thinks?

rock747
04-27-2011, 02:20 PM
why not. Plus the NBA reviews a lot of plays, a lot more than we ever hear about

Why'd we hear a bout Foster's then?

pacers_heath
04-27-2011, 02:41 PM
i'm pretty sure danny was looking for noah after the game to tell him he's 'dirty' and that he needs to take a shower. i think he makes a very good point personally

Derek2k3
04-27-2011, 02:52 PM
Why'd we hear a bout Foster's then?

Controversial play + Eventual league MVP = Special attention.

Psyren
04-27-2011, 03:01 PM
Frankly, Noah is a coward. He shoved the hell out of Hibbert every play down the floor all series.

And I've never seen a guy who gets so excited about making layups and missing easy and one attempts like Noah does.

Conclusion:

Noah = Toolbag

MyFavMartin
04-27-2011, 03:08 PM
Did Granger not see the elbow McRoberts threw in game 4?

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PK5eNSWFB4o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

DRose was hanging on the rim and showboating. He was also blocking his access to the ball, which would be a technical.

Slick Pinkham
04-27-2011, 03:10 PM
Noah is extremely ugly and plays rough. But I sure wish that he were on our team. The dude has a huge motor and plays hard all of the time, sort of like a healthy younger verson of Jeff Foster with a way uglier but way more effective shot.

vapacersfan
04-27-2011, 03:11 PM
I know a lot of you are gonna disagree, but...

Shut up, Danny!

After losing the game/series it just sounds like freakin' sour grapes to me.

I disagree 100%.

Being a team leader does not equal sour grades. He stood up for a teammate. Good for him.


I'm just talking about if Danny wants to hold a grudge for the Bulls and or Noah take it up next year inthe playoffs, not right after the series is over or in the regular season.

Yet if he did that there would be double technicals and people would be screaming "can he not get over something that happened over year ago, just let it go and play this year


how do you know it won't be. Atlhough I don't think there is a great camera angle showing the elbow.

Bet they wont

Derek2k3
04-27-2011, 03:12 PM
There was an NBA writer that tweeted during the game, "For a 1 seed in a life and death struggle with an 8 seed, the Bulls sure do talk a lot of smack."

That embodies this team. Arrogance without substance.

vapacersfan
04-27-2011, 03:12 PM
Did Granger not see the elbow McRoberts threw in game 4?

<IFRAME title="YouTube video player" height=390 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PK5eNSWFB4o" frameBorder=0 width=640 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

It didn't even connect..............

KingGeorge
04-27-2011, 03:13 PM
Granger should have walked to the locker room and shut his mouth after the game. If I was in his shoes, I would be more concerned about the 27 point embarrassment just handed to us, and realize my season is over.

After fighting with the Bulls for 4 tough games, he has now presented the Pacers as "sore losers" to the media.

I'm not here to defend Noah, but that is just the way the guy plays. Get over it! The team came out flat last night, so they should have expected to be pushed around.

I like that Granger was trying to protect the other players, but this was definitely wrong place, wrong time.

vapacersfan
04-27-2011, 03:14 PM
My opinion:

1. It wasn't ridiculous, he didn't act illogical. He complimented the team, while pointing out his distaste for the way Noah went after a couple Pacer players. He didn't say Noah was a bad player or anything, he pointed out that he thought Noah cheap shotted a few times. Anyone watching the games would probably agree; while a Foster esque' player lays hard fouls on the ball, Noah throws elbows and grabs off the ball. Totally different.

2. Korver is an idiot. A complete idiot. taking a cheap shot at someone is completely different than laying someone out on a drive.

3. Biggest difference? A Pacer was ejected as a result of the "Playoff" basketball Noah was playing. Had it been any other player it would be double technicals, sit down and calm down. But since Noah already had one T, there was no way they were giving him another. Same as when he got tangled with Tyler. Anytime one player is in the middle of so much trouble, the refs typically give double T's. Well, no such chance because it meant Noah would be tossed.


Exactly.

If he did not have 1 technical foul I bet he gets a double technical 10 times out of 10

Unclebuck
04-27-2011, 03:14 PM
The refs and the league official who grades the refs looks at every single play in every single NBA game.

I do not know the process of how a certain play gets reviewed for a possible fine or suspension, but I know it happens all the time

vapacersfan
04-27-2011, 03:15 PM
Granger should have walked to the locker room and shut his mouth after the game. If I was in his shoes, I would be more concerned about the 27 point embarrassment just handed to us, and realize my season is over.

After fighting with the Bulls for 4 tough games, he has now presented the Pacers as "sore losers" to the media.

I'm not here to defend Noah, but that is just the way the guy plays. Get over it! The team came out flat last night, so they should have expected to be pushed around.

I like that Granger was trying to protect the other players, but this was definitely wrong place, wrong time.

We got outplayed by a team that won 20 more games then us. Frustrating? Sure, but not Danny's fault.

I have no problem what Danny said, and I like the fact he said it.

Since86
04-27-2011, 03:16 PM
It didn't even connect..............

To be fair, that doesn't matter.

I would also bet that the refs had discussed McRoberts elbow towards Rose, and were told to be on the lookout for such actions from him.

Which also makes me wonder how in the world Boozer can blantantly shove people in the backs on rebounds and hardly ever get called for it.

vapacersfan
04-27-2011, 03:17 PM
The refs and the league official who grades the refs looks at every single play in every single NBA game.

I do not know the process of how a certain play gets reviewed for a possible fine or suspension, but I know it happens all the time

I know they say that, I just do not beleive it. Maybe they review X number of games, but I doubt they review every game.

If that was the case, a lot of "questionable" calls would get reversed, and as it is the NBA only really comments on a call if it gets a lot of air time.

CircleCity3318
04-27-2011, 03:17 PM
I have no problem with it, so what they don't all to be friends. Good for you granger for calling Noah out. If he punched him that would be different but it was just words...

vapacersfan
04-27-2011, 03:18 PM
To be fair, that doesn't matter.

I would also bet that the refs had discussed McRoberts elbow towards Rose, and were told to be on the lookout for such actions from him.

Which also makes me wonder how in the world Boozer can blantantly shove people in the backs on rebounds and hardly ever get called for it.

100% true. If that was a non Pacers I would be pissed.

Ditto on your second point.

You know what, a ratethenbarefs.com website might be a fun blog project for next year. hmmmm

KingGeorge
04-27-2011, 03:21 PM
We got outplayed by a team that won 20 more games then us. Frustrating? Sure, but not Danny's fault.

I have no problem what Danny said, and I like the fact he said it.

I just don't think you should be calling a person out when they just ended your season. Especially when they win by 27. I would be angry with myself rather than Noah.

vapacersfan
04-27-2011, 03:25 PM
I just don't think you should be calling a person out when they just ended your season. Especially when they win by 27. I would be angry with myself rather than Noah.

I guess I just see things diffrently then you.

Danny was not "superman", but he played a pretty damn good game. We did not lose because of Danny Granger, so I see no problem with him answering a question.

Would it be more PC for him to say "no comment" or "watch the tape"? Sure

But I personally got tired of some of the cheap shots, and I am a fan watching at home 1000 miles away. I can only imagine a player experiencing it gets just as upset, if not more.

FWIW, I do not think Danny "cares" less about losing because he called Noah out.

At the end of the day, both guys will cool off and the bulls advance. But what Danny said was true. Noah played dirty, and tha cheap shot elbow was just one example of many

Dr. Hibbert
04-27-2011, 03:31 PM
everyone is a big baby nowadays. I'm only 21 and I remember the "good ole days" of basketball. Well the precursor generation to this sissy league we have now at least

THIS. Thank you. What happened to the NBA of the 90s? It got so soft. The same people whining about Noah were the ones complaining about Chicago fans whining about Foster.

IT'S THE PLAYOFFS! Hard fouls and cheap shots are fair game. You'd damn well better be able to rise above both and kick the other guy's *** regardless.

Dr. Hibbert
04-27-2011, 03:32 PM
Noah is extremely ugly and plays rough. But I sure wish that he were on our team. The dude has a huge motor and plays hard all of the time, sort of like a healthy younger verson of Jeff Foster with a way uglier but way more effective shot.

Anyone who wouldn't take him over Hibbert right now is crazy.

vapacersfan
04-27-2011, 03:39 PM
THIS. Thank you. What happened to the NBA of the 90s? It got so soft. The same people whining about Noah were the ones complaining about Chicago fans whining about Foster.

IT'S THE PLAYOFFS! Hard fouls and cheap shots are fair game. You'd damn well better be able to rise above both and kick the other guy's *** regardless.

I am only 25, so my memories only go back to the Knicks - Pacers and Knicks - Miami series, but I think you are a bit off.

If you would have thrown a elbow the way Noah did last night in the 90's, Barkley or Ewing would have turned around and punched you in the face.

Hard fouls are one thing. Cheap shots are another.

You can have lots of hard fouls and not be a dirty player. If you have to resort to cheap shots, then you are dirty.

Haywoode Workman
04-27-2011, 03:42 PM
Anyone who wouldn't take him over Hibbert right now is crazy.

i've always like noah, but i'm pretty partial to guys who openly smoke weed. it says a lot about their integrity to me that they're not willing to crumble under this ridiculous archaic stigma that marijuana somehow still possesses.

like a lot of you have already said, he's just one of those guys that you love if he's on your team, but hate if he's not. i've always said the same thing about tyler.

Haywoode Workman
04-27-2011, 03:46 PM
I guess I just see things diffrently then you.

Danny was not "superman", but he played a pretty damn good game. We did not lose because of Danny Granger, so I see no problem with him answering a question.

Would it be more PC for him to say "no comment" or "watch the tape"? Sure

But I personally got tired of some of the cheap shots, and I am a fan watching at home 1000 miles away. I can only imagine a player experiencing it gets just as upset, if not more.

FWIW, I do not think Danny "cares" less about losing because he called Noah out.

At the end of the day, both guys will cool off and the bulls advance. But what Danny said was true. Noah played dirty, and tha cheap shot elbow was just one example of many

i, for one, am so tired of these politically correct, canned responses that we get from most players these days. i respect a guy more when he says what he really feels and not some generic bull**** you've heard a million times before.

if you've never heard melvin bullit talking to reporters after a game, i suggest you look some of his post game interviews up. dude is as real as they get

Unclebuck
04-27-2011, 03:52 PM
I know they say that, I just do not beleive it. Maybe they review X number of games, but I doubt they review every game.

If that was the case, a lot of "questionable" calls would get reversed, and as it is the NBA only really comments on a call if it gets a lot of air time.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2008-11-17-refs-life-monday_N.htm

vapacersfan
04-27-2011, 03:57 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2008-11-17-refs-life-monday_N.htm

Yes, you posted this same article last week......................

Unclebuck
04-27-2011, 04:00 PM
Yes, you posted this same article last week......................


oops, my bad

vapacersfan
04-27-2011, 04:04 PM
oops, my bad

I hear you, though. The NBA says the right things.

I just find it weird that calls seem to get more "attention" when they get more airtime or when a coach blabs about it and it makes ESPN. Perhaps that is coincidence, perhaps I am looking for a bias where there is not one, but I still geniuinly can not understand how Boozer did not have anything happened to him in the beginning of the series, esp with some of the cheap shots he gave out. The NBA could have reviewed those calls, but never did (or if they did they deemed his play "acceptable" enough not to comment on it or punish him")

Now if we tracked him with all the refs are the refs next series are told to watch for X Y or Z, and he gets called for it more [or at all].............

I guess for me what it comes down to [on that front] is the NBA is entertainment, and I will never forget that (or game 6 Lakers - Kings or all the Suns suspensions)

As for Danny, I hope he has cooled off, he made his point, and I hope his teammates know they have someone who will stick up for them. I also hope we get a player to compliment Danny [and we may have him in Paul George].

ChristianDudley
04-27-2011, 04:48 PM
If the NBA doesn't review Noah's actions on the court from Game 5, the NBA is even more rigged. This particular series has shown LOTS of proof of the NBA wanting certain teams and players to succeed no matter what--they can play garbage basketball and the NBA will still force the game in the favor of the team they want to win. I wonder how it feels to be on the other side of this...hmm, must be fun to cheat and get away with it.

DemonHunter1105
04-27-2011, 04:53 PM
Not that it matters, but I had SportsNation on TV while studying and they did a poll on Granger's comment, whether it was fair or whining.

64% said it was a fair point while the rest said it was whining. I think that just means the general consensus is most people that are not Bulls or Florida fans do not like him that much, more than people actually thinking he is a dirty player.

Just thought I would add it to this thread.

vapacersfan
04-27-2011, 04:57 PM
If the NBA doesn't review Noah's actions on the court from Game 5, the NBA is even more rigged. This particular series has shown LOTS of proof of the NBA wanting certain teams and players to succeed no matter what--they can play garbage basketball and the NBA will still force the game in the favor of the team they want to win. I wonder how it feels to be on the other side of this...hmm, must be fun to cheat and get away with it.

To be fair Reggie flopped, kicked, and screamed foul with the best of them......

Pingu
04-27-2011, 05:09 PM
Granger should have kept his mouth shut.

Slick Pinkham
04-27-2011, 05:23 PM
64% said it was a fair point while the rest said it was whining. I think that just means the general consensus is most people that are not Bulls or Florida fans do not like him that much, more than people actually thinking he is a dirty player.

Just thought I would add it to this thread.

I think Granger's comment was accurate, that Noah is rough and sometimes dirty, but that doesn't mean I don't like Noah as a player and wish we matched that intensity or had him on our team (and I'm not a Gators fan). That's how playoff basketball is played. Remember the "no layups rule" between the Celtics and Lakers at the height of the NBA in the 80s? They took each others heads off when someone dared drive hard to the basket, and yet it was great basketball.

Young
04-27-2011, 05:29 PM
Noah is the type of player you love if he is on your team but hate if he is not.

Most teams don't like physical play. So that's why the Bulls and their fans complained. Foster's foul on Deng crossed the line. Thomas's elbow and Boozer's push to Tyler also crossed the line.

I don't think Granger's comment was a big deal. Most people who watch Noah play have thought the same thing.

90'sNBARocked
04-27-2011, 05:32 PM
My only beef wih Granger is , if Noah bothered you so much, then why not get into it with him after he hit Josh with the elbow

Why wait till the end of the game?


As someone mentioned, looks like sour grapes


on another note I think Danny was much more explosive under Jim O'Brien

BillS
04-27-2011, 05:39 PM
My only beef wih Granger is , if Noah bothered you so much, then why not get into it with him after he hit Josh with the elbow

Why wait till the end of the game?

So you don't get thrown out too? Can't berate Josh for holding his temper and then come down on Danny for waiting.

ilive4sports
04-27-2011, 06:02 PM
My only beef wih Granger is , if Noah bothered you so much, then why not get into it with him after he hit Josh with the elbow

Why wait till the end of the game?


As someone mentioned, looks like sour grapes


on another note I think Danny was much more explosive under Jim O'Brien

He said he wanted to because he figured he wouldn't get suspended til next season, but he gathered himself and didn't do it. We saw Danny jaw with Noah last night.

Danny was pissed. He was pissed with Noah, pissed they lost, pissed they played poorly. Am I gonna be upset that one of the Pacers players showed some emotion after this series? Hell no, its what I want to hear. This is the type of stuff that drives players in the off season.

BringJackBack
04-27-2011, 06:12 PM
Noah is the type of player you love if he is on your team but hate if he is not.


Nah, not for me...the mid-game mini orgasms when he gets a random defensive board or a block, and his celebrating as if he won game 7 of the Finals when he gets to the line, and his fake toughness would get ridiculously old.

Plus he's injury prone.

ECKrueger
04-27-2011, 06:15 PM
Nah, not for me...the mid-game mini orgasms when he gets a random defensive board or a block, and his celebrating as if he won game 7 of the Finals when he gets to the line, and his fake toughness would get ridiculously old.

Plus he's injury prone.

Thank you.

90'sNBARocked
04-27-2011, 06:36 PM
So you don't get thrown out too? Can't berate Josh for holding his temper and then come down on Danny for waiting.

I didnt berate Josh, I think thats much to do about nothing, heat of the moment, he took a cheap shot and we were geting our asses handed to us

Grnager could have gotten in Noah's face without being thrown out of the game, as long as he didnt touch him,

but no he waits until its over and comes after him

weak

DemonHunter1105
04-27-2011, 06:39 PM
I didnt berate Josh, I think thats much to do about nothing, heat of the moment, he took a cheap shot and we were geting our asses handed to us

Grnager could have gotten in Noah's face without being thrown out of the game, as long as he didnt touch him,

but no he waits until its over and comes after him

weak

I am pretty sure someone said they saw him jawing at Noah right after it happened, but just let it go until the end of the game.

If this seriously makes you think that much less of Granger for being honest and sticking up for "his power forwards" I don't know what to tell you.

IUfan4life
04-27-2011, 06:40 PM
Nah, not for me...the mid-game mini orgasms when he gets a random defensive board or a block, and his celebrating as if he won game 7 of the Finals when he gets to the line, and his fake toughness would get ridiculously old.

Plus he's injury prone.

Haters gonna hate. He's twice the player Roy will ever be

BringJackBack
04-27-2011, 06:46 PM
Haters gonna hate. He's twice the player Roy will ever be

Wanna bet money on that?

IUfan4life
04-27-2011, 06:49 PM
Wanna bet money on that?
good comeback. Quit being a homer, give credit where it's due

ilive4sports
04-27-2011, 06:58 PM
Noah is Anderson Varejao. Quite frankly I don't like either player and think both are overrated. Roy is much more skilled than Noah. Whether he reaches his potential or not is yet to be seen. Noah played with great players in Florida and is playing with the MVP right now. Give Roy this off season to strengthen up. If he does that, he will be more like November Roy than February Roy.

BringJackBack
04-27-2011, 06:58 PM
good comeback. Quit being a homer, give credit where it's due

This is a joke.

Is Noah better? Yes.
Two times better? **** no.

And at least Roy doesn't pretend to be tough and act all hard yet get scared and be all quiet when he's losing or playing bad. That's more sickening than anything in the world. That'd drive me insane as a fan. And Noah's a dirty player.

Plus Roy is good for 80 games a season; Meanwhile Joakim is only good for 45-50 games.

Before Chicago was getting their *** kissed by everyone, Joakim was known as an average center.

IUfan4life
04-27-2011, 07:08 PM
This is a joke.

Is Noah better? Yes.
Two times better? **** no.

And at least Roy doesn't pretend to be tough and act all hard yet get scared and be all quiet when he's losing or playing bad. That's more sickening than anything in the world. That'd drive me insane as a fan. And Noah's a dirty player.

Plus Roy is good for 80 games a season; Meanwhile Joakim is only good for 45-50 games.

Before Chicago was getting their *** kissed by everyone, Joakim was known as an average center.
Roy might play 80 games a season, but he is definitely not good for 80 games. I'm sorry that the Bulls have a player who gives everything on every play, and I'm sorry that pisses you off. If Noah is dirty, then Jeff is every bit as dirty.

BringJackBack
04-27-2011, 07:10 PM
:laugh: There's a difference between giving your all on every play to win and being a dirty player who is fake tough.

Roy had two months of his season ruined by Obie. I'll give him a pass as he's been good ever since Jim's been gone.

I used to say that JOB wasn't all that bad but he was every bit as bad as everyone around here said he was.

d_c
04-27-2011, 07:11 PM
You may not like Noah (I find him extremely repulsive personally), but he's typically the type of dirty role player that most championship teams have. Laimbeer with Detroit, Rodman with the Bulls and Bruce Bowen with the Spurs. Even Rick Fox during the later years with the Lakers as well as Robert Horry with the Lakers/Spurs. Those guys really are the dirty players that try to get under the skin of opponents, and they're usually pretty successful.

Doesn't hurt that Noah is a great rebounder and a top tier defender at the center position. Remember that the Bulls wouldn't include him in any Carmelo trade. I think the guy is annoying as hell but he's developed into one of the more valuable role players in the league.

DemonHunter1105
04-27-2011, 07:13 PM
I'd take Noah right now, but 2-3 yrs from now I don't see Noah having expanded or refined his game too much more. Roy has all the skill in the world if he can just harness his killer instincts.

MarvelousMarvin
04-27-2011, 07:13 PM
Haters gonna hate. He's twice the player Roy will ever be

This guy isn't an all-star or anything he averages about 11 points 11 rebound and for his career has averaged 8.6 points and 8.4 rebounds and he's 26 years old so he isn't going to be making some huge leap to being an all star. I'd be surprised if Roy weren't better than him next year.

BringJackBack
04-27-2011, 07:14 PM
You may not like Noah (I find him extremely repulsive personally), but he's typically the type of dirty role player that most championship teams have. Laimbeer with Detroit, Rodman with the Bulls and Bruce Bowen with the Spurs. Even Rick Fox during the later years with the Lakers as well as Robert Horry with the Lakers/Spurs. Those guys really are the dirty players that try to get under the skin of opponents, and they're usually pretty successful.

Doesn't hurt that Noah is a great rebounder and a top tier defender at the center position. Remember that the Bulls wouldn't include him in any Carmelo trade. I think the guy is annoying as hell but he's developed into one of the more valuable role players in the league.

I agree. I don't like him, but when he's not injured he's a good energy starting big. Like a poor man's Ben Wallace. I'm not saying that Roy is better than Noah. Noah is better as of right now, just a little bit though. But 2x better? Not even close.

IUfan4life
04-27-2011, 07:15 PM
I'd take Noah right now, but 2-3 yrs from now I don't see Noah having expanded or refined his game too much more. Roy has all the skill in the world if he can just harness his killer instincts.

Hibbert has come a long way from Georgetown. I really don't think he has any killer instinct at all. If Roy ever figured out a way to put everything together he would be scary good, but unfortunately I have seen nothing that indicates he will.

d_c
04-27-2011, 07:36 PM
I agree. I don't like him, but when he's not injured he's a good energy starting big. Like a poor man's Ben Wallace. I'm not saying that Roy is better than Noah. Noah is better as of right now, just a little bit though. But 2x better? Not even close.

He was 2x better than Hibbert in the playoffs, and that's being conservative.

BringJackBack
04-27-2011, 07:41 PM
He was 2x better than Hibbert in the playoffs, and that's being conservative.

...it's not as lopsided as you think. I actually thought it was worse than it really was.

Hibbert: 10.4 PPG, 6.8 RPG, 44%

Noah: 12 PPG, 10.6 RPG, 47%

Noah's outplayed him, but it has been pretty close. Roy has to create everything for himself too unlike Noah. He doesn't have a point guard who can set him up. Joakim has Derrick Rose who sets up 75% of his buckets.

speakout4
04-27-2011, 08:12 PM
I am proud of Danny.

IUfan4life
04-27-2011, 08:15 PM
...it's not as lopsided as you think. I actually thought it was worse than it really was.

Hibbert: 10.4 PPG, 6.8 RPG, 44%

Noah: 12 PPG, 10.6 RPG, 47%

Noah's outplayed him, but it has been pretty close. Roy has to create everything for himself too unlike Noah. He doesn't have a point guard who can set him up. Joakim has Derrick Rose who sets up 75% of his buckets.
Those stats indicate that it was close, but it wasn't close at all

BringJackBack
04-27-2011, 08:30 PM
Those stats indicate that it was close, but it wasn't close at all

Yes it was. You just have anti-Roy tinted glasses.

IUfan4life
04-27-2011, 08:32 PM
Yes it was. You just have anti-Roy tinted glasses.

ROY HAD 2 GOOD QUARTERS THE ENTIRE SERIES!!!

BringJackBack
04-27-2011, 08:41 PM
...I rest my case.

speakout4
04-27-2011, 09:17 PM
I'd take Noah right now, but 2-3 yrs from now I don't see Noah having expanded or refined his game too much more. Roy has all the skill in the world if he can just harness his killer instincts.
I don't know how you change your personality. You can improve skills but killer instinct is something you have not much control over. Roy just won't be that kind of player

Scot Pollard
04-27-2011, 09:18 PM
Maybe Noah will shave his face and head.

ilive4sports
04-27-2011, 10:58 PM
ROY HAD 2 GOOD QUARTERS THE ENTIRE SERIES!!!

Maybe that speaks more to how that Noah isn't as good as your making him out to be. I mean he outplayed Roy, but at the end of the day the stats were close.

BlueNGold
04-27-2011, 11:27 PM
Maybe that speaks more to how that Noah isn't as good as your making him out to be. I mean he outplayed Roy, but at the end of the day the stats were close.

Yet another example of why stats don't matter very much. Noah outplayed Roy by some distance. Had Foster not been available, we would have been dominated at the C position. Roy was completely ineffective in the paint because he couldn't get his shot up. So, Roy became a jump shooter. In constrast, Noah, who doesn't have much of a low post game showed some of that. The fact he also drives the team on pure emotion and energy is highly valuable.

The fact is, Noah is the type of player every opponent hates and every team mate loves. The differences between Foster and Noah are actually few. Noah has a bit better offensive game and blocks shots. Noah also does serve up a few cheap shots but I think that's being overstated. Foster at times has whipped his arms down very hard and I think he's gone overboard at times. Not as blatant and cheap...but still right on the edge. I would welcome Noah to Indiana.

Derek2k3
04-27-2011, 11:50 PM
This is such a subjective debate.

If you don't mind having an obnoxious d-bag on your team, you'll love Noah. I find his schtick annoying, he's good but not great. 2/3 of his points seemed to come from being open when Rose would drive.

It's amazing to me that people have completely forgotten how great Roy was early. I'll take Roy's points and assists over Noah's rebounds and blocks.

Noah has reached his ceiling offensively, I don't see him as ever being more than a 12-15 a game guy, 3rd or 4th option. Roy is being groomed to become the 1st or 2nd option.

The Roy hate is ridiculous. Typical overreaction because of 5 games.

Eleazar
04-28-2011, 12:11 AM
Hibbert has come a long way from Georgetown. I really don't think he has any killer instinct at all. If Roy ever figured out a way to put everything together he would be scary good, but unfortunately I have seen nothing that indicates he will.

Unfortunately we have a lot of that on this team. We have players who have all this talent, but they just haven't put it all together yet and may never.

Dr. Hibbert
04-28-2011, 12:17 AM
if he can just harness his killer instincts.

What killer instincts?

Dr. Hibbert
04-28-2011, 12:20 AM
because of 5 games.

...or 3/4 of an NBA season.

Constellations
04-28-2011, 12:37 AM
None of the players for either team are dirty. Jeff and Joakim both played hard, tough and fair. When I say hard and tough though, I mean for this era. We aren't seeing Dale David and Charles Oakley out there.

Dale David? That hurt to read.

joeyd
04-28-2011, 12:39 AM
I would welcome Noah to Indiana.

Gotta say that I definitely would not. In fact, his addition might prohibit me from enjoying the team as much.

Ransom
04-28-2011, 01:20 AM
I'm honestly worried at how Granger seems to overreact in situations like this. Reminds me of the late three and Toronto. I think he feels the needs to prove he's standing up for his teammates and responds out of proportion.

Noah should at least be fined, but we can't lose our cool like that.

BringJackBack
04-28-2011, 06:28 AM
...do I sense the tides turning against Roy? I hope not, because without him we're not making the playoffs.

thefeistyone
04-28-2011, 07:13 AM
Say what you want about Roy, i may be a little less optimistic about him being our future, but not too much.

By the sound of things some of you guys have all but given up on the big fella. One thing he has shown us is that he's willing to put in the work in the off season. Remember how he started out the season before JOB got his claws in him? I think we'll see a much better Roy next season.

As for Noah...he is a dirty player, only surprise is that he doesn't own up to it a little more. There are a lot of players that nit pick and cheap shot and do whatever they can to get under an opponents skin. Some players (Granger) may look at these tactics as "cowardly" because normally these type of players don't have the skill to be a good player without resorting to these tactics.

IMO there's a difference in playing hard and playing dirty. Noah without a doubt plays dirty, but I suppose you can push the envelop as far as the officials will let you take it.

Just one request for Noah...If your going to play dirty like that just please for the love of God get that stupid shocked look of your face.

yoadknux
04-28-2011, 07:23 AM
Noah is OK, and he definitely outplayed Roy. Don't show me stats, stats don't show presence. And I agree Roy had maybe 1 good game the entire series. We've had this problem all season long: Sometimes Roy is the big bad bully who makes hook shots over you and dominates you in the paint, and sometimes he's this cute little girl. He's that soft sometimes.

jeffg-body
04-28-2011, 07:56 AM
I think everyone is too hard on Roy. It takes big men about four or five years to fully understand their position. Yes he is inconsistent, but he is still young and his work ethic shows that he will improve. I wonder if they will bring in another big man coach during the offseason.

Ransom
04-28-2011, 11:51 AM
Yes, don't get rid of Roy unless you're getting another center. He's still getting better, and good big men aren't easy to find.

beast23
04-28-2011, 01:49 PM
I think everyone is too hard on Roy. It takes big men about four or five years to fully understand their position. Yes he is inconsistent, but he is still young and his work ethic shows that he will improve. I wonder if they will bring in another big man coach during the offseason.I really don't know if he needs another big man coach.

From my perspective, weekly testerone injections and some additional strength could be his biggest gains.

beast23
04-28-2011, 02:17 PM
I agree 100%. I think once the series is over, as a player you have to forgive and forget and only compliment the opposing team. Shake their hands, wish them well. If you play them again next year in the playoffs, that is where you can pick up your grudge - not in the regular season either that is separate.Danny shut up? Forgive and forget?

I couldn't disagree more.

For the next several years, any hope of success that the Pacers seek in the playoffs will likely be tied to the Bulls. We need to get around them in the standings to have any hope of homecourt advantage in the playoffs. And from my perspective, Boston is getting older and it will be the Bulls, not the Knicks and the Heat, that we must deal with in the coming years to get beyond the ECS. To me, the Bulls will quickly become our modern-day rendition of the old Knicks.

So, every single time that one of our Pacers thinks of the Bulls, I want them to think about Noah putting a forearm or an elbow into the closest Pacer as a shot goes up. When they think of a Bull, I want them to see red... literally and figuratively.

I want them to remember what their successes felt like in this series, and I want them remember how they felt each time they were unable to stop Rose, or a pass was kicked out to Korver and especially each time they got dinged by Noah.

And every time they play the Bulls, even if it is during the regular season, I want them to compete for every single minute of every single game the way they competed in the first four games of this playoff season (I really want them doing this EVERY game against EVERY opponent). An advantage over the Bulls in the four games of the regular season matchup could have a significant impact in homecourt advantage in the playoffs.

So no, I don't want Danny to let it go. And, I don't want to forgive and forget. I want the Pacers to use anything available to them to stoke the competitive juices against the Bulls.

Whiskeyjim
04-30-2011, 05:17 PM
I really don't know if he needs another big man coach.

From my perspective, weekly testerone injections and some additional strength could be his biggest gains.And bags of potatoes. Don't forget the potatoes.

Derek2k3
05-31-2011, 11:33 AM
I figured I would post this in here, but did anyone else catch that blurb on ESPN about Noahs missing post-game?

All numbers are approx, I can't remember exactly what they were.

Basically, out of the 600 points he scored this season, 55 of them were a result of a post move. The rest were putbacks/transition. I'm trying to find the article, but for now...

I thought that stat did a great job putting his offensive contributions in perspective.

xIndyFan
05-31-2011, 11:45 AM
I figured I would post this in here, but did anyone else catch that blurb on ESPN about Noahs missing post-game?

All numbers are approx, I can't remember exactly what they were.

Basically, out of the 600 points he scored this season, 55 of them were a result of a post move. The rest were putbacks/transition. I'm trying to find the article, but for now...

I thought that stat did a great job putting his offensive contributions in perspective.

it would be nice to have a post guy that could score. But both Dale Davis and Jeff Foster have shown that a guy can be an important part of a team's success w/o being a scoring threat.

If the bulls want to get rid of noah, then i hope the pacers try to get him. he is an unusual guy, but the dude can play. noah is not the problem the bulls need to fix if they want to get better.

Trader Joe
05-31-2011, 11:58 AM
Noah wasn't supposed to have to score. They were supposed to be paying Boozer 14 million a year to do that...oops.

xIndyFan
05-31-2011, 12:39 PM
Noah wasn't supposed to have to score. They were supposed to be paying Boozer 14 million a year to do that...oops.

As a Pacer Fan, the Bulls signing Boozer was the best thing they did last summer. Watching him eat up $15M in cap space for the next 4 yrs will make me :dance:

Derek2k3
05-31-2011, 04:25 PM
it would be nice to have a post guy that could score. But both Dale Davis and Jeff Foster have shown that a guy can be an important part of a team's success w/o being a scoring threat.

If the bulls want to get rid of noah, then i hope the pacers try to get him. he is an unusual guy, but the dude can play. noah is not the problem the bulls need to fix if they want to get better.

Except neither of those guys were "franchise" centers. Noah is supposed to make what, 60M over the next 5 seasons? And is completely one dimensional.

I'm not saying Noah isn't skilled or a big part of his teams success, I'm just pointing out that those who simultaneously rip Roy and laud Noah should realize that young players need to grow. Noah is still a young guy, and has almost NO offensive game. Just like Roy, he has a lot of work left.

Derek2k3
06-01-2011, 12:43 PM
Here is the blurb from the article on ESPN by Haberstroh:

If he's not delivering a put-back or receiving a pass at the rim, Noah struggles to get points. According to Synergy Sports data, just 63 of Noah's 561 points were scored as a result of a post-up play. For a five-year, $60 million investment, the Bulls need a larger return on that end of the floor.