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Peck
04-27-2011, 04:12 AM
Sorry guys I just don't have it in me to crank out an Odd Thoughts tonight. Not depressed per say but just sad that it came to an end. Love our team.

I'll say that again because for the first time since 2000 I can say I love our team without reservation. There are improvements that can be made of course but I don't want the fact that I'm going to talk about things in what we have learned to diminish the fact that I love our team.

What have we learned?

Danny Granger has another gear. This has been the question that many of us have asked for six seasons now, is what you get from Danny during the regular season the best he can play or does he have another notch to turn to on his post season dial. I think the answer is, yes he does. Many people are talking about needing a closer or getting a higher scorer and Danny can be second fiddle. Sure if someone wants to drop one of those superstar closers on our team who am I to complain. But since these people don’t grow on tree’s we are going to have to be realistic and try and build with Danny. To some people this will be a horror filled thought that will induce nausea and vomiting. But to me I still believe we can advance with Danny being the best player. How far can we advance? I don’t know but if he had a solid team around him I think he will be fine.

Dahntay Jones has another gear. Yes his offense is as subtle as a Sherman tank and yes he looks to pass as often as A.J. Price does (which is not very often) but he and Tyler & Jeff for that matter share one trait in common. They have a high motor and it is constantly running. His defense, which he has been the subject of scorn for months by some, was in full display in the three games he played and not once was he found wanting. No, he is never going to be anything more than a good solid rotational bench player but there is no way this guy should not be in a rotation. Some people wilt in the playoff spotlight, D. Jones is not one of them.

Paul George has another defensive gear, for certain. I’ll just go ahead now and say that games 2 – 4 his defense was at an elite level. He pestered, harassed, bumped and bothered Rose into poor shooting performances. Sadly game 5 he sort of slipped off, but still slipping off from where he was just brought him down to just being good on defense. His offense is going to need some work, but right now his defense is already there.

Darren Collison might have another gear, although I’m not sure. Sadly due to injury, you know the one that wasn’t the subject of every single reporters and analyst commentary, we will probably not know how effective he could have been this series. However he did not embarrass himself this series. I still worry greatly about his height and his court vision. But overall he played well enough throughout this for me to at least not be panicked about the point guard spot.

Tyler Hansbrough…. This is a tough one. I don’t want to say that he does not have another gear, yet I’m also forced to make certain that I don’t say he does. He had one good game, one great game, two less than stellar games and one horrid game. I’ll take into consideration that he is a first time playoff person and still has never had a year of solid steady min. so I think I’m just going to say I don’t know about him yet.

Jeff Foster has another gear, but we knew that already. Not much more I can say that hasn’t been repeated ad nauseam about Jeff but its safe to say that if he wants to return to the club he will be welcomed back with open arms. Again though, it is imperative to start looking for Jeff’s replacement now, not later. He is getting very long in the tooth and with his back I don’t think it is right to expect him to play big min. during the regular season.

Ok, now we start to talk about what we have learned but really probably did not want to know.

Roy Hibbert in this series anyway showed he has no other gear and in fact might have stripped the gears a couple of times during this game alone. It’s bad enough in the regular season that whenever a team decides to get physical with Roy that he sometimes wilts and on rare occasions he come through. But in the playoffs where every game is going to be a war and the deeper you get into the playoffs the better the oppositions center is going to be I’ll just say that I’m really worried. In fact, sad to admit this but Roy’s inadequacy’s make it so that we really need to look at a different type of power forward. While both Tyler & Josh are fine by themselves neither of them is going to be able to hand the very physical centers that Roy is not going to be able to handle. So much like Rik Smits needed Dale Davis I think Roy is going to need a big bulky power forward to either work along side him or replace him when he goes to the bench.

Mike Dunleavy has been found wanting. Ok, I’ll admit it now. I was very disappointed with Mike’s playoff debut. I honestly thought he would be the offensive spark that we need coming off of the bench. However there is a sad truth here that some are not going to like. The playoffs are more physical and athletic than the regular season and players like Mike are at a disadvantage. He’s not a deadeye shooter like Korver so he can’t milk that from his game. Maybe vs. a different team he could have been more effective but my honest opinion now that I have seen him play in the playoffs is that Mike really is always going to struggle with big min. Not saying he can’t contribute but can you really think of one game where you looked back and said “man we need to get Dunleavy in there”.

A.J. Price needs to be deprogrammed and sent to a new training camp with a new coach. If it’s Vogel fine if it’s whoever else our coach is fine as well. But this guy has got to learn to be a point guard again. Yes I appreciate the shots he hit at home he hit some big ones. But overall this guy just has almost given up on running an offense and has just decided to be a destitute man’s Allen Iverson. I’m blaming this on being forced into Lucifer’s service for a year and a half and two training camps under him. His defense was ok, but not stellar. But my God the offense is just abysmal when he is in there. Yes, I know he doesn’t have a lot of choices but still.

Josh McRoberts is also a quandary. Why oh why are they keeping whatever is wrong with his leg a secret? It was obvious tonight, and every night for that matter, Josh could not elevate. With that in mind we just got a dose of what Josh must work on to stay in the NBA for a good amount of time. Some day the legs will fail you, now is the time to work on positioning, leverage and strength. No you are never going to be Kevin Willis but you have got to get some more upper body strength and start learning better rebounding techniques. Like Tyler I’m giving Josh an incomplete for this series due to injury.

Brandon Rush, I almost forgot to do Brandon but then I found the irony in that to be that I often forget Brandon is on the floor. Brandon’s dwindling playing time during this series said all that needed to be said. Hit a couple of shots but other than that, Meh.

I want to leave on an upbeat note and I’m going to do it by making a bold statement that I know many will disagree with.

First the complimentary background statement. I have seen every playoff game the Indiana Pacers have ever played in during their tenure in the NBA. I have been to every home playoff game that we have ever played minus two games (so yes Uncle Buck has me beaten by one). I say all of that to say this.

This was the best performance in the playoffs by our club that I have ever seen based on the talent & experience available. That includes the great years of 94-2000.

Now hold on before your eyes totally pop out of your skull let me clarify. Never have I seen a team come so far in such a little time with so little experience and no star power at all to battle a team toe to toe game to game (minus the last one) than I have with this team.

Sure we have fielded better teams in fact we have fielded a lot better teams. But each of them had something that this team did not have and that is both experience and star power.

Look back over this series and think to yourself for a moment. Other than Danny night in and night out giving you a good game what one player stood out to you every night? In fact there were several nights if you looked at the box score you were probably trying to figure out how we stayed so close, let alone have a lead for most of the games.

We fought as a team and we fought well enough that legitimately we can talk about being disappointed that we didn’t split the series. Think about that again for a min. we were the worst team in the playoffs they were the best. Game five’s outcome should have by all rights been at least 3 or 4 more of those games outcomes.

I give credit to the players for laying it on the line and I of course once again will give credit to Frank Vogel.

Constellations
04-27-2011, 04:50 AM
Not saying he can’t contribute but can you really think of one game where you looked back and said “man we need to get Dunleavy in there”.

I will absolutely say Mike's production in the series was horrid. And that is keeping it nicely. But I have to say during that horrible 6 game losing streak towards the end of the season the offense jsut wasn't moving like it did when he was in there. I did tell my g/f "They could use Mike so bad right now" a few times. Not necessarily for his scoring, but he does help the offense flow.

And this is a very great post.

cgehlhausen4
04-27-2011, 04:58 AM
Couldn't have said it better myself. I think we should have went with a different strategy though. Since the whole team have a skill they are good at and none of them are stars, why not start brandon rush and dahnte jones over Granger and George. Sound crazy? Well you have Jones on Rose and Rush on Deng. Jones harrased Rose, Rush is a pretty good defender. He could keep deng under control. That isnt the point tho. Once Rose and Deng come out thats when you bring in Danny And George. Danny wouldnt have to defend Deng and he wouldnt have deng guarding him. He would have had an advantage and would have probibly scored more points. If rose didnt come out, which he doesnt alot George still could have guarded him. Im half asleep so this probibly isnt coming out right, but basically I feel like Jones and rush are good enough on defense to keep the bulls from scoring alot and both of them can score good enough. Between DC, Jones, Rush, Hibbert and Tyler I see it as they could end the 1st quarter of games close. Something like 22-20 thus bringing in granger and george against the bulls second unit, still having good defense on the court and more offense...Over all tho we played alot better than anyone expected. Everyone had the broom out and we could have easily swept them if we can close the game. The whole series all i could think about was the Josh Mcbob for OJ Mayo trade that didnt go down. If that would have went down, I think we win this series...good play pacers.

GizzyStardust
04-27-2011, 04:59 AM
Great, great post.

Things that we learned from the playoffs?

I learned that Paul George will likely be a cornerstone of this franchise for many, many years to come. And, I don't care if his offensive game does not develop one bit (though I'm sure it will, many times over).

The kid just defended (arguably) the toughest cover in the entire Association and did it with such remarkable tenacity, length and foot speed that I was absolutely amazed by his progression. Sure, Rose got his in the end, but I think George defended him just about as well as anybody on the planet could and the kid's only 20! That is big-time defense on a big-time stage. Another gear, for sure.

rock747
04-27-2011, 05:14 AM
I dont know what I learned. But it seemed as though the Pacer's team learned alot. The postgame locker room interviews pumped me up.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/video/originals/

Kuq_e_Zi91
04-27-2011, 05:53 AM
I dont know what I learned. But it seemed as though the Pacer's team learned alot. The postgame locker room interviews pumped me up.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/video/originals/

Roy's interview left me with the impression that he understands how important he is to this team. He knows he let his teammates down. He hears the criticism, he understands it's warranted. That gives me hope that we'll see him work his tail off to become a better player this summer. I know he's incredibly frustrating at times, and I'm sure a lot of Pacers fans are ready to give up on him, but if anyone gets it, it's Roy.

Danny exemplified everything I want from a leader. During the regular season, he might have taken some plays (or even games) off. He wasn't always the most vocal or even the most visible, unless he was taking a bad shot. But this is where leaders are made and Danny answered the call. "He elbowed two of my power forwards..." Yes, Danny. It's clearly your team now. If you were advertised as the leader before, it was by default. Now, you've earned it. Now let's get you some help.

AesopRockOn
04-27-2011, 06:05 AM
That Bulls fans seem to harbor such strong vitriol for Danny makes me even happier about his presence on the team.

Also, in an attempt to refrain from negativity, I will only say that I have much concern about Roy's role on the team for the foreseeable future.

vnzla81
04-27-2011, 06:41 AM
Mike Dunleavy has been found wanting. Ok, I’ll admit it now. I was very disappointed with Mike’s playoff debut. I honestly thought he would be the offensive spark that we need coming off of the bench. However there is a sad truth here that some are not going to like. The playoffs are more physical and athletic than the regular season and players like Mike are at a disadvantage. He’s not a deadeye shooter like Korver so he can’t milk that from his game. Maybe vs. a different team he could have been more effective but my honest opinion now that I have seen him play in the playoffs is that Mike really is always going to struggle with big min. Not saying he can’t contribute but can you really think of one game where you looked back and said “man we need to get Dunleavy in there”.

No to be a d*** or anything, but this is pretty much what I predicted was going to happen, there was not need for him to play at all, Vogel should had play DJ since the beginning.

Banta
04-27-2011, 07:56 AM
Roy Hibbert in this series anyway showed he has no other gear and in fact might have stripped the gears a couple of times during this game alone. It’s bad enough in the regular season that whenever a team decides to get physical with Roy that he sometimes wilts and on rare occasions he come through. But in the playoffs where every game is going to be a war and the deeper you get into the playoffs the better the oppositions center is going to be I’ll just say that I’m really worried. In fact, sad to admit this but Roy’s inadequacy’s make it so that we really need to look at a different type of power forward. While both Tyler & Josh are fine by themselves neither of them is going to be able to hand the very physical centers that Roy is not going to be able to handle. So much like Rik Smits needed Dale Davis I think Roy is going to need a big bulky power forward to either work along side him or replace him when he goes to the bench.




This. What he said. Roy = Charmin.

And, despite what Spazzxxb wanted to say in my previous thread about Hibs, it pains to me face this reality. I had very high hopes for Roy on draft night a few years ago, but I think he has reached his potential.

My love of Granger increased in this series and I'm pretty excited about George. I loves me some Dahntay Jones, too.

D-BONE
04-27-2011, 08:17 AM
Nice post!

Here's what I believe I've learned. These are the guys on the current roster I definitely want to see back:

-DG
-PG
-DJ
-TH
-JF (unless he decides to hang it up)

Nobody of the remainder has impressed me to the point where I would be disappointed if they weren't back. Certainly, Roy and DC are borderline guys who might yet improve, but each has key core weaknesses that I'm not sure more experience can rectify - Roy's physical strength/athletic challenges and Darren's mediocre or worse handles/vision/size.

Nobody on the roster is off limits for a good deal though. DG really favorably impressed me in the series. That said, it does not change the fact that, given his skill set, on a mid-level playoff to contending team, his best role is offensive second option or option 1A, if you prefer.

speakout4
04-27-2011, 08:29 AM
I have always been a Dunleavey fan and certainly not a Rush fan but both should be gone now. I would like to retain Foster and possibly McRob if he is very cheap, 2+M/year max but that's it. We need wings who can shoot and someone to help Roy who can't do it alone in the paint.
Our best player was comparable to Deng who is probably the 3rd or 4th best player on Chicago's team but the pacers certainly gave us our money's worth this playoff so there is a lot to look forward to.

We need a steal in free agency going forward.

RWB
04-27-2011, 08:41 AM
Yes I'm disappointed in Roy's soft play, but I'm not ready to give up on our 25 year old center. Putting frustrations aside there is still time.

QuickRelease
04-27-2011, 08:43 AM
I think it would be incredibly shortsighted to close the book on Roy after his 3rd season, and 1st postseason. I don't want to lean on cheap cliches, but it takes big men longer to put it all together. Roy has put in alot of work to get better, and I think he'll do even more this offseason. He definitely needs to get stronger, which I think he will. We need to give Roy a little more time before assigning him to the 'he is what he is' category.

Unclebuck
04-27-2011, 08:53 AM
If I were running the team, I would look hard at trading Roy. Not get rid of Roy, but trade Roy, and by trade I don't mean for a second round draft pick in 2029. But he probably has some pretty high trade value - likely third behind Danny and George. So package Roy with Brandon and see what we could get. Someone will ask me who do I have in mind? I don't know yet. <O:p</O:p

So while I would see what we could get for Roy, I would do everything I could to trade Brandon. He brings nothing to our team that is unique, plus we have traded him twice already, so I would be shocked if he is back next season.
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Foster I would guess might be back, maybe 50/50. Dunleavy will not be back, he was a better fit with JOB's system, so he is gone. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Tyler's best role? I don't know if you listened to Steve Kerr last night discuss what Vogel told him about Tyler, that is the whole team feeds off Tyler's energy - if you believe that and I do, in order for that to have a big influence on the team Tyler needs to start. Although in theory he would be great as an energy guy off the bench. But if we do trade Roy and bring in a more athletic big guy, I think Tyler can start.
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Danny and George I am fine with. Collison is the biggest question im my mind. He is only a second year player so he will get better, but the question is does he have the necessary upside to be what we need. if you assume Danny and Paul are locked in at the 2 and 3 - is Darren what we need? I have my serious doubts. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

So if we aren't going to get a player better than Danny, the bottonline is in order to be a championship contender, I think we need players better than Roy and darren. if somehow we can get a player better than danny, then sure Roy and Darren might be good enough. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p</O:p

I am only looking at our top 8 players or so, players 9-12 I don't spend too much time worrying about -besiudes those players are not our problem. Josh coming off the bench for 15 minutes a game is fine. I will say I really don't want Price on the team next season - he's just not very good. Lance has talent, but too much baggage. Jones is fine for 15 minutes a game, if Jeff comes back and can play some that is fine. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Ok, that is my off-the-top of my head evaluation of this team. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

I think Vogel deserves to be our coach, although if I were in charge I would go through the process, see who else is interested and also I would want to know what Vogel plans to do with this team when he has a full traning camp - what didn't he have time to install that he wanted to. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

RWB
04-27-2011, 09:04 AM
I think Vogel deserves to be our coach, although if I were in charge I would go through the process, see who else is interested and also I would want to know what Vogel plans to do with this team when he has a full traning camp - what didn't he have time to install that he wanted to.

I still have really mixed feelings on Vogel as coach. My heart says yes because of his dedication the last part of the season. But if Frank doesn't plan on bringing in a veteran coach to help on the bench then I'm not satisfied with his decision making.

Unclebuck
04-27-2011, 09:07 AM
I still have really mixed feelings on Vogel as coach. My heart says yes because of his dedication the last part of the season. But if Frank doesn't plan on bringing in a veteran coach to help on the bench then I'm not satisfied with his decision making.


That would be one of my questions I would ask Frank in the interview.

As Kravitz said in his column this morning if Bird is out, then the new GM needs to bring hin his own coach, I will say that is 100% true, nothing worse then having a coach and GM not working together especially if the coach isn't the GM's choice.

I think right now I am of the opinion to build our team around Granger and George, I think they can play together at the 2 and the 3. if George can guard rose, then George can guard any two guard.

yoadknux
04-27-2011, 09:26 AM
Granger played like an all star, George was a great defender, Jeff did some dirty work, Price played pretty fair... the rest were inconsistent

vnzla81
04-27-2011, 09:36 AM
I've learned that Vogel saved Bird, now is his decision and not Simon's for him to come back.

I've learned that we need an starting point guard, we need to move DC to the bench and maybe keep price as a back up.

I also think we need an starting center, just like UB said, we need to find a way to trade him for another center, maybe Al Jefferson or Nene.

I think we are fine at SG and SF but still need to get better backups.

At PF I think is expected for Tyler to get better now that he is healthy and can workout in the summer, if we can upgrade fine but I don't see PF as priority.

At the end of the day I think we need an starting PG and Center and better backups at SG,SF,PF and Center.

MTM
04-27-2011, 09:39 AM
This was the best performance in the playoffs by our club that I have ever seen based on the talent & experience available. That includes the great years of 94-2000.


Thanks Peck for a fantastic post. In the interest of debate, I would argue that in terms of fighting against a superior opponent and trying to pull every ounce of talent from an over-matched roster, there was one other time a Pacers team did it better than this year's team: 1991 Pacers vs. Celtics.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/bird_person_game5.html


Though the Pacers didn’t break through into the NBA elite until reaching the Eastern Conference Finals for the first time in 1994, they very nearly made their big move three years earlier. Coming off a 41-41 regular season, they entered the playoffs as the No. 7 seed against the No. 2 seeded, Atlantic Division champion Boston Celtics. Though they were aging, the Celtics still had Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish up front and a rising star named Reggie Lewis in the backcourt. The Pacers were led by Chuck Person, Reggie Miller and Detlef Schrempf. The teams produced one of the most thrilling first-round series in NBA Playoff history, with Boston surviving to win Game 5, and Person and Bird were center stage. Those two principles, reunited in the Pacers’ front office – Bird as President of Basketball Operations, Person as Assistant to the President/Player Relations – reflected on that memorable series as the Pacers prepared to face the Celtics in the first round of the 2004 Playoffs. The story is told in their words.

Chuck Person and Larry Bird enjoyed a fierce rivalry through the late 1980s and early '90s.

Chuck Person: ”We were young and inexperienced. Boston had the great leaders in Larry, Robert and Kevin. But we were young, fast and brash. With Micheal Williams running the point and Detlef and myself and Reggie, we had a lot of guys who could push and really score the ball. Defensively, we weren’t very good so we played a style that we thought we could win with.”

Larry Bird: “They scored a lot of points. They were a run-and-gun type of team. They got the ball out and pushed it up the court. When they got into their set offense, they ran a high pick and put either Reggie or Chuck in the corner. Micheal Williams would come off a pick and when you came to give help, they hit the corner and scored. They almost beat us with that one play, but it was a tough play to defend.”

Bird and Person enjoyed a fierce rivalry throughout their careers. Person was a brash, outspoken, trash-talker who wanted to get in Bird’s face. Bird was a quiet assassin who generally let his actions speak for him – although he could talk trash with the best of them. On one legendary late December night, Bird told Person before a game that he had a present for him. In the fourth quarter, after hitting a clutch 3-pointer, Bird turned to Person, who was seated on the Pacers’ bench, and said, “Merry Christmas.” Such was the nature of their rivalry.

Chuck Person: “I don’t know if Larry remembers, but my first game in the pros was against him in Terre Haute and he said, ‘Young fella, when you come out to play, play hard every night or you’ll get embarrassed – especially by me.’ That gave me extra incentive to play hard against Larry. My first regular-season game against Larry he had something like 40 points, 20 rebounds and 15 assists, so I told myself I had to come out and play as hard as I possibly could every night.”

Larry Bird: “The thing about Chuck, no matter if it was the regular season or the playoffs, he came to play. I think he played harder against me than anybody else, but it was good. In this league, a lot of times the players don’t give you any resistance. But when you played against Chuck, you knew you had to play and you had to play hard – and if you didn’t play well, they’d probably beat you.”

Boston won a tight Game 1 at home, 127-120, with Bird struggling to a 6 of 20 shooting night but nonetheless producing a 21-point, 12-rebound, 12-assist triple-double. Person scored 23 points with eight rebounds and seven assists. Then came the stunner, with the Pacers winning Game 2 in Boston Garden 130-118 as Person racked up 39 points, including a team playoff record of seven 3-pointers. With a chance to take control of the series at home, however, the Pacers dropped Game 3 in Market Square Arena, 112-105, as Person attempted just eight shots and scored six points. Facing elimination, the Pacers got big games from both Person (30 points) and Miller (27) to rally in the fourth quarter to win Game 4, 116-113. That set the stage for the deciding Game 5, on May 5, 1991 in Boston Garden.

Chuck Person: “I felt, obviously, going into a short series, anything could happen if we could go into their building and get a win – and maybe two. The most important thing was to go get one and we did. But we came back and laid an egg in Game 3 – particularly myself by having only six points and taking a limited amount of shots. But we had the big Game 4 and went back (to Boston) for Game 5. I thought we played well but, obviously, the dramatics with Larry going down and coming back and the Garden crowd never sitting down after that had a major impact in the outcome of the game. Larry pretty much dominated that series.”

Boston led by 10 after the first quarter, but the Pacers tied it at 58-all by halftime. Late in the second quarter, Bird crashed to the floor in pursuit of a loose ball and his head bounced hard off the fabled parquet. He stayed down for what seemed like an eternity to Boston fans before heading straight to the locker room. When he did not return with his teammates for the start of the third quarter, the drama began mounting about when – or if – he would re-enter the game.

Chuck Person: “As soon as he went down, we went into a timeout shortly after that and (Coach Bob Hill) said, ‘When the guy comes back, and the fans are going to get into it and Larry’s going to try to take over the game.’ He came back and missed his first couple of shots but then he got on a roll, got the fans and his teammates into it. They made a run but we kept our composure, came back and made a run at them.”

Larry Bird: “Going into the series, I was having a problem with my back and didn’t know if I was going to be able to play in all the games. In the last game, right before halftime, I took a spill and hit my head and went back to the locker room and really debated whether I should go on. The doctor told me I probably had a concussion and they didn’t think I should go out there with both the back and the damage I did to my brain – I rattled it a little bit.”

The Pacers took an 82-79 lead in the third period but when Bird came jogging through the tunnel, the Garden crowd erupted.

Chuck Person: (When Bird came through the tunnel) “I thought, ‘Well, here’s the second coming.’ He definitely played ungodly the rest of the way. For a guy who could’ve broken his neck or fractured a jaw or something, he really came out and performed at a level he’s accustomed to playing at.”

Larry Bird: “I kept hearing the crowd oohing and aahing, and I kept asking what the score was. I had this massive headache on the right side of my head but finally I decided, ‘This could be your last game ever, so you’d better get out there and give it all you can.’ ‘’

Though the Pacers had been prepared by Hill for what was coming, they didn’t handle it well. Boston outscored the visitors 33-14 to take a 112-96 lead before Indiana re-gathered itself for one last push. They cut the lead to 120-118 in the final seconds, setting up the game’s most memorable shot. Person initially posted up but Vern Fleming couldn’t get an angle for the entry pass, so Person popped to the 3-point line to take the ball. With Derek Smith and Bird both in his face, Person shot a 26-foot turnaround trey with 10 seconds left. Fleming was in perfect position in front of the rim to grab the rebound, but Parish jumped in and pushed the point guard under the rim, allowing Brian Shaw to get the ball. He was fouled and made both shots. Though Person tossed in a desperation 3-pointer from 35 feet out to cut it to 122-121, Shaw was fouled after the inbounds pass and made both free throws to finish the scoring. Bird, who had averaged 18.0 points on 36.9 percent shooting in the first four games, scored 32 and went 12-of-19 in the finale.

Chuck Person: “The play was for me. Reggie was supposed to curl, pop out and give it to me. I couldn’t quite get into position like I wanted and Reggie couldn’t get it. Vern had the ball, so I came out to get it. I knew if I popped out behind the 3-point line, I was going to take it. After I received the ball, I saw an opening. It probably was not such a good shot, but I took it. On tape, it looked like Vern was open and I probably should’ve gotten it to him. But I wanted to take the shot because I didn’t think we could go into overtime and beat these guys with the momentum they had and the energy we had wasted trying to catch up. (The shot) didn’t feel good but I knew I was shooting the ball well the entire series, especially in Boston, so I thought it had a chance to go in. But it didn’t.”

Larry Bird: “I thought they’d go for the tie. I thought they’d go down low to the big man and kick it out, try to get something off the drive. At that time we were older and what they did best against us was take us off the dribble and make plays. But what happened was they were having trouble getting the ball to Chuck in the post so he came out and got it. When he took the shot I was a little surprised. He had the 3-pointer, but he was more or less going away from the basket when he shot it. I always thought they would go inside-out, but they didn’t do that.”

Chuck Person: “At any one given time in a game or during a person’s life, I think you have one chance at greatness. For this franchise, I thought that time was then. We could’ve put something together and had a great run for a long time with the team we had intact. If we could’ve added a couple of pieces and kept Detlef, I think things could’ve really been great for this franchise for a long time, but it didn’t work out that way. But we’re fortunate this franchise has Donnie Walsh, and the franchise has been pretty good since that time.”

Immediately after the game, Bird made clear how impressed he had been by the Pacers. “If they don’t win 50 games next year,” he said, “something’s wrong.” The immediate future didn’t work out as expected for either team. After a disappointing 1991-92 season that produced 40 wins and a first-round sweep at the hands of the Celtics, Person was traded to Minnesota. The Pacers had to wait until the 1994-95 season to reach 50 wins. The Celtics didn’t make it past the second round in either ’91 or ’92 and Bird retired in ’92, McHale in ’93 and Parish left Boston in ’94. That turned out to be the beginning of the end of Boston’s reign of dominance, and marked the rise of the Pacers to elite status. They reached the Conference Finals five times in seven years beginning in 1994, culminating in a trip to the NBA Finals in 2000.

Chuck Person: “I think it was the youth of our team, how everybody wanted to have it all at once. We had Rik Smits, who was coming into his own, and myself and Reggie (Miller) and Detlef Schrempf. Those four guys alone, we all had a lot of talent, we all had the opportunity to become great players but, obviously, we didn’t have enough minutes and enough balls to go around so some changes had to be made. I was the one that got traded.”

Larry Bird: “There’s no question about it, they gave us all we wanted. We thought we were playing pretty good. We played Game 4 in Indianapolis and went right down to the wire. The quickness they had to take us off the dribble, I know Kevin McHale and Robert were saying, ‘Maybe it’s time to quit because these young guys are starting to take over the league.’ The only thing that beat the Pacers that was probably the years we had been in playoff situations. We knew where to get the ball at the right time. But from that point on, we always felt like the Pacers were an up-and-coming team and they’d probably win 50 games every year.”

Major Cold
04-27-2011, 09:49 AM
I think it is evident that Danny should remain a Pacer unless we get back a more proven player. Coupling him with an equal talent, would force teams to not focus on Danny so much.

Danny had a greater series than his numbers indicate. Except for Roy in a couple of games, the Bulls defense solely had plans to stop Danny. And they couldn't. Deng could not stop him. Bogans could not stop him.

Hibbert needs to add strength. He needed to do that last offseason. But instead he got quicker, laterally. It still takes him forever to make a move. And it might always take that long. But add strength and power to those slow methodical moves and I think Roy's consistency goes up.

PG and Tyler should start their off season next week. Hit it hard and come in changed. They need a consistent offensive arsenal. PG I know can have that, but Tyler I doubt.

KnicksRGarbage
04-27-2011, 09:54 AM
After this series I:
1. gained a lot of respect for Danny
2. have become worried, rather quickly, about Big Roy's lack of aggression.
3. am very excited for paul george's future
4. think it is clear that Mcbob really isn't a "valuable asset."
5. believe D. Jones showed he belongs in the rotation
6. am very frustrated by the comments made by josh after game 5 regarding his ejection

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6434456
McRoberts appeared to catch an elbow to the neck when he and Noah battled near the lane. He then tried to return a shot, for which he was assessed a flagrant 2 foul and ejected. But McRoberts didn't agree with Granger's assertion that the play was dirty.

"I'm not mad about it," McRoberts said. "He got a good hit on me. They caught me trying to hit him back.

"It's part of the game. I'm not going to say it's dirty. That's Game 5 of a playoff series. You can't say it's dirty, it's part of basketball."

Kind of a slap in the face to Danny if you ask me. I certainly wouldn't be happy if I stuck up for one of my teammates in a situation like this and they say something like Josh did.

Anyway, I am way excited about the future of our team.

Foul on Smits
04-27-2011, 09:55 AM
I learned...

We need to explore giving Foster a 1 or 2 year deal, if he still wants to play.

Paul George has elite defensive skill and if he fine tunes his offensive game, he will be an All Star.

Danny Granger doesn't disappear in the playoffs, he raises him game.

Aj Price is pretty horrible a lot of times

Frank Vogel deserves a contract. I was on the fence, but now I'm convinced.

Roy still has a lot of work to do. He needs to get more fierce at the rim.

This team can be a contender next season depending on what they do with there cap room

bellisimo
04-27-2011, 10:03 AM
I learned...

I'm getting too old for watching games till 5am due to time difference and going to work the next day...

Marlin
04-27-2011, 10:12 AM
Couldn't have said it better myself. I think we should have went with a different strategy though. Since the whole team have a skill they are good at and none of them are stars, why not start brandon rush and dahnte jones over Granger and George. Sound crazy? Well you have Jones on Rose and Rush on Deng. Jones harrased Rose, Rush is a pretty good defender. He could keep deng under control. That isnt the point tho. Once Rose and Deng come out thats when you bring in Danny And George. Danny wouldnt have to defend Deng and he wouldnt have deng guarding him. He would have had an advantage and would have probibly scored more points. If rose didnt come out, which he doesnt alot George still could have guarded him. Im half asleep so this probibly isnt coming out right, but basically I feel like Jones and rush are good enough on defense to keep the bulls from scoring alot and both of them can score good enough. Between DC, Jones, Rush, Hibbert and Tyler I see it as they could end the 1st quarter of games close. Something like 22-20 thus bringing in granger and george against the bulls second unit, still having good defense on the court and more offense...Over all tho we played alot better than anyone expected. Everyone had the broom out and we could have easily swept them if we can close the game. The whole series all i could think about was the Josh Mcbob for OJ Mayo trade that didnt go down. If that would have went down, I think we win this series...good play pacers.
Two major problems with your theory:

1) Rose and Deng play over 40 minutes per game. Rose comes out at the beginning of the second quarter, Deng midway through it: if you wait for them to be on the bench, you're not gonna see Danny and Paul on the floor for more than a handful of minutes.
Besides, the Bulls' second unit isn't out there alone ever, there's always a starter or two mixed in. We've never seen Watson/Brewer/Korver/Gibson/Asik on the floor together, not in the regular season, nor in the playoffs until the final minutes of game 5.

2) Who's gonna score early to keep up with them? Jones and Rush may make their lives tough, but you know they aren't gonna be completely stopped...so you have a lineup of DC/Jones/Rush/Hans/Hibs, where is the scoring coming from regularly?

Justin Tyme
04-27-2011, 10:19 AM
If I were running the team, I would look hard at trading Roy. Not get rid of Roy, but trade Roy, and by trade I don't mean for a second round draft pick in 2029. But he probably has some pretty high trade value - likely third behind Danny and George. So package Roy with Brandon and see what we could get. Someone will ask me who do I have in mind? I don't know yet. <O:p</O:p

So while I would see what we could get for Roy, I would do everything I could to trade Brandon. He brings nothing to our team that is unique, plus we have traded him twice already, so I would be shocked if he is back next season.
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Foster I would guess might be back, maybe 50/50. Dunleavy will not be back, he was a better fit with JOB's system, so he is gone. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Tyler's best role? I don't know if you listened to Steve Kerr last night discuss what Vogel told him about Tyler, that is the whole team feeds off Tyler's energy - if you believe that and I do, in order for that to have a big influence on the team Tyler needs to start. Although in theory he would be great as an energy guy off the bench. But if we do trade Roy and bring in a more athletic big guy, I think Tyler can start.
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Danny and George I am fine with. Collison is the biggest question im my mind. He is only a second year player so he will get better, but the question is does he have the necessary upside to be what we need. if you assume Danny and Paul are locked in at the 2 and 3 - is Darren what we need? I have my serious doubts. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

So if we aren't going to get a player better than Danny, the bottonline is in order to be a championship contender, I think we need players better than Roy and darren. if somehow we can get a player better than danny, then sure Roy and Darren might be good enough. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p</O:p

I am only looking at our top 8 players or so, players 9-12 I don't spend too much time worrying about -besiudes those players are not our problem. Josh coming off the bench for 15 minutes a game is fine. I will say I really don't want Price on the team next season - he's just not very good. Lance has talent, but too much baggage. Jones is fine for 15 minutes a game, if Jeff comes back and can play some that is fine. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Ok, that is my off-the-top of my head evaluation of this team. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

I think Vogel deserves to be our coach, although if I were in charge I would go through the process, see who else is interested and also I would want to know what Vogel plans to do with this team when he has a full traning camp - what didn't he have time to install that he wanted to. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p



Pretty much sums it up. I said in a thread last night in order for this team to beat the Bulls in game 5 both Hibbert and Collison had to step up and have good games which neither did.

I have no longing to see Rush or Dun back, nor would I be disappointed if McBob and Price aren't back either. I'd probably give Hibbert and Collison another year b4 I'd cut the umbilical cord unless some unbelieveable trade comes along that can't be turned down that would have to include them.

I'm not sure this team needs a Batman for Granger, but another Robin plus George might be all that's needed. The Pacers need a scorer who can play "D" who is capable of hitting a big shot when needed.

I'm not opposed to Vogel being the HC next year, but like many others I feel you need to look at all the options. Rick Adelman is one of those experienced options. As far as non-experienced possibilities, my feeling is Vogel is at the top of the list.

I'll go into players who I'd like to see the Pacers look into getting at another time. I will say OJ Mayo isn't presently on that list, and may never be.

naptownmenace
04-27-2011, 10:35 AM
The biggest thing I learned was that if you took Derrick Rose and put him on the Pacers roster, the Pacers would be a 62-win team.

Seriously, the Pacers and Bulls teams are so similar. Granger showed he can defend, score, and pass like Deng. Noah was more consistent than Roy but they play a similar type of game. I think the PFs of both teams were up and down all series but overall they were pretty even. Paul George and Keith Bogins are excellent defenders who each had a game or two where they had a positive offensive output.

The Pacers need a player like DRose that is quick enough and strong enough to get in the lane and cause havoc. Having an extra shooter like Korver would help a lot as well.

I look at this as a positive. The Pacers aren't that far away from being a contending team. A player like a healthy Baron Davis (not that such a thing really exists) would really go a long way.

BillS
04-27-2011, 10:36 AM
While Dun was not effective this postseason, I'd love to see what he's capable of with an offense built from training camp around the other guys with him as a piece.

I would not chase him or anything, but he is still the only guy on the team willing to catch and shoot, so if he comes back at a reasonable price (same with Foster) I'd be hesitant to dump him.

I think we really need a player with a consistent shot that doesn't require teammates to get him space. Whether it is a post shot, a midrange, or a long jumper doesn't matter, I just want someone who, when he gets the ball, I have a reasonable chance of thinking "that ball is going in the hoop".

I don't like the idea of a raw coach plus a raw team, but Vogel is more than just an assistant who got lucky. He's a hard worker and will spend the summer learning from his mistakes. His biggest challenges if he gets rehired will be working with a shortened training camp after a lockout AND handling adversity in the team if they come out of the gate badly.

I learned that having Charles Barkley say nice things about the Pacers is the Kiss of Death...

Psyren
04-27-2011, 10:38 AM
Sadly, I agree on Roy as well.

I think he is what he is, which isn't necessarily bad. He's better than quite a few centers in the league. But I don't think he'll ever improve. He's about as soft of a big man as you could ever find, both mentally and physically. His hands are awful. He gets happy feet every time he touches the ball. And is a horrid, horrid rebounder considering his size.

Yes, some of that can be fixed. But will it get fixed? I doubt it.

Others:

DG: Really brought me back on board to his game, with the exception of last night. He was awful so many times. As a series though, I really liked what I saw.

DC: Still like the kid, but not sure he's the answer. However, I'm willing to wait it out.

PG: Absolutely love this kid. Has a really good motor, shows excellent defensive skills, and will be a stud once his shot starts to fall and he tightens up his handles.

Tyler: As Peck said, I didn't think his season was great, but I want him back. Toughness like that is hard to find.

Jeff: Always loved him, still do. Tough as nails, and if he hangs it up, I'll certainly miss him. If he wants to come back, he's always got a roster spot if I were running the team.

Brandon: Awful. Like usual. No surprise here. Sorry Rush fans, but he still sucks.

Dunleavy: I could take him or leave him, but I lean towards leaving him. If he shot isn't falling, he doesn't do much for us. Yes he's smart offensively, but man was he non existent in this series.

AJ: Agree with Peck. Either needs to re-learn to play PG, or get off this team. Just horrid play, but I have family that follows UCONN heavily, and I know he can play PG. He was good at PG. Hopefully he can fix whatever the hell happened this year.

Josh: Still not very impressed with him, but I want him around simply because of his age. Could still develop into something good.

TJ: I add TJ in for only one reason. To thank him for being such a classy professional. When DC went down, he was ready to step right in no questions asked and actually played pretty well. He's never once complained to my knowledge, and just seems like one of those genuine, great people. I'm not a big fan of his play, but I can't thank him enough for how well he handled his time here. A true class act, and guys like that are hard to find.

naptownmenace
04-27-2011, 10:40 AM
Thanks Peck for a fantastic post. In the interest of debate, I would argue that in terms of fighting against a superior opponent and trying to pull every ounce of talent from an over-matched roster, there was one other time a Pacers team did it better than this year's team: 1991 Pacers vs. Celtics.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/bird_person_game5.html

Thank you and I agree!

MyFavMartin
04-27-2011, 10:41 AM
I want Jordan Williams of Maryland or another wide low post presence.

I want time for this team to grow together and mature.

I want someone to step up to slow down DRose in the next couple years.

I also want Jeff back, in anything, just to give the Bulls fans something to moan about next year.

I want another 15-20 pounds of muscle on Roy... in the legs and butt. And for him to learn to turn right.

I want PG and Rush to develop, esp. PG to become our #2 scorer, work on his handles, and have the confidence in creating his shot...

I want Vogel to be up late at night over obsessions with the last 5 minutes of games.

BobbyMac
04-27-2011, 10:44 AM
I don't think the Pacers should give up on Roy, He reminds me a lot of Rik Smits and it took Rik several years to become a top center.

MagicRat
04-27-2011, 10:49 AM
I don't think the Pacers should give up on Roy, He reminds me a lot of Rik Smits and it took Rik several years to become a top center.

I think we should've started Greg Dreiling.

ensergio
04-27-2011, 10:51 AM
I don't understand. For me, Rush played well in the little time he did it. He is not a star SG, but he is a glue player, good defense and 3pt shooting.

vnzla81
04-27-2011, 10:51 AM
While Dun was not effective this postseason, I'd love to see what he's capable of with an offense built from training camp around the other guys with him as a piece.

Please God nooooooooo :puke:

Unclebuck
04-27-2011, 10:51 AM
I don't think the Pacers should give up on Roy, He reminds me a lot of Rik Smits and it took Rik several years to become a top center.


I think the Pacers have given up on Rush, but not on Roy. But that doesn't mean that the pacers should not look to trade Roy. lets see what we can get for him. if we don't like the trade offers, OK then lets keep him until he either gets good enough that we want to keep him or he gets good enough that his trade value increases. of course if we do keep him too long and his trade value decreases, then we lose out.

Sollozzo
04-27-2011, 10:54 AM
I don't think we should "give up" on Roy per se, but at the same time, I'd ship him out in a heartbeat if it were in a deal that significantly upgraded our post presence.

I know DC is just a second year player, but I would get rid of him too if the right deal came along. He wastes so many seconds off the shot clock with unnecessary dribbling and moves that have no benefit. So frustrating to watch. It seems like so many possessions were wasted this series by his dribbling around. Then you all of the sudden only have 11 seconds left on the shot clock and we end up getting a horrible, rushed shot.

Rush is completely worthless. I'm someone that was high on Rush two years ago when he had a strong finish to his rookie season but the guy has had NO IMPROVEMENT WHATSOEVER. He sucks as far as I (and it seems like most here) are concerned. He had the starting position handed to him on a silver platter and now can barely get off the bench. Sad.

George is definitely the guy I'm most excited about. If he develops a consistent offense game then whoa. He will probably be our second best player very soon, though I am always kind of leery about a team who's best two players are wing players if those players aren't named Jordan and Pippen.

This was basically Hansbrough's rookie season for all practical purposes and I generally liked what I saw. He is a hard worker who we know will be working on his game nonstop all summer and I'm confident we will see improvement. It seems to me like he played like crap this series the moment he hit his head.

Dahntay should get more minutes next year. Don't care one way or another if McRoberts is back. We should not spend a dime on Dunleavy. This series proved that, IMO.

Unclebuck
04-27-2011, 10:56 AM
One thing I leanred is that the Chicago Sun Time's Bulls coverage is much much better than the Chicago Tribune's Bulls coverage. What happened to the Tribune - maybe it is just their online stuff, but it is really lacking. I remember back in the 90's buying the Trib. to read about the Bulls and the playoffs.

diamonddave00
04-27-2011, 11:00 AM
I echo what most have said another minus from this team is James Posey who was brought in to show leadership and showed anything but that. Eat his contract if you must with the cap space the Pacers have, I want him having no part in the youth of this teams development.

Roy Hibbert to me showed he is Rik Smits without the consistant long range shot 17-20 feet. Smits needed the Davis' to cover his weaknesses much as Roy needs the banger type to play alongside him. If you can get a more physical big man to play alongside Roy keep him , otherwise look into moving him for a more physical big at 25 , Roy's trade value will likely never be better.

Tyler to me is the perfect 6th man , come in and carry a team for a few minutes of the bench playing with energy. Hopefully with a healthy summer Tyler will be able to improve his all around game.

Darren Collison the jury is still out on , but when you consider his youth and speed he could very well improve to a 6-10 range point guard in this league. BUT his defense must greatly improve even more so than his offense.

Danny played better than I expected but he needs to refocus on defense too often he got lost on his man . Danny is too good a player to be mediocre at best on defense.

Paul George needs to work on his ball handling , he also needs to limit his shooting of the 3. Paul's games is 20 feet and in , tightning up his ball handling will enable him to use his quickness and size to punish other shooting guards going to the hole. From what we saw defensively from Paul in the playoffs , I was reminded of Scottie Pippen a player type I can see him becoming. At 21, in a couple weeks Paul has the dreaded word potential to be a top level 2-way player in the NBA for 12-15 years and prove the scouts correct in saying he would be the best player from the 2010 NBA Draft.

Never a Jeff Foster fan I give him props for giving his all as a leader , showing the youth of this team what the playoffs are and how you play in them. His hardnose play and aggressiveness was the example to them all what it means to play, playoff basketball. If Jeff wants to comeback re-sign him short term but remember you are signing him as a 10-12 minute a night player.

Dahntay Jones , to me is a 10-15 minute a night player. I still see his defense as over-rated but he can be a true spark off the bench when he tempers being a black hole on offense.

Josh McRoberts if he is back fine if not its not the end of the world. Josh will give you effort but to me is a true liability on defense . If Foster isn't back I'd be more likely to re-sign Josh.

B. Rush is an enigma who seems destined to always be one. He just seems to lack any real desire to be more than a player who has ability but doesn't care. He has had chances for 3 years now and to me has shown no improvement at all . Deal him for basicly anything you can get at this point.

Lance Stephenson has skills but at 20 its time he matured. To me you bring him back hopefully after doing nothing but watching the playoffs humbled him a little and will drive him to work on his game both physically and mentally if not the rope of keeping him is very short.

A J Price if he is going to have a long NBA career he must realize he is a back up point , his job is get the ball to other players . Not to lead the team in FGA's per minutes played. Price seems to think he is a shooting guard problem is he can not survive in the NBA with that mindset. We need an upgrade at back up point guard so to me if he is back its as the 3rd point guard.

TJ Ford, Dunleavy, and Solo Jones thanks for the effort you gave here hopefully tey catch on somewhere they all seem to be class guys.

This summer the Pacers have cap space and are coming of an impressive Playoff effort vs. the Bulls ; whoever is in charge has an opportunity to continue to build the Pacers toward what they were just a frew years ago, A solid 50+ win team and a challenger every year. This is a summer that must not go by without major improvement they may not have the opportunity again if they don't make the next step now.

PR07
04-27-2011, 11:01 AM
-It's clear we need a big man with some brute strength who can move some people around. I'm not taking about Psycho T strength, but a big guy with a big frame who can handle some physical players down low.

Nene would be a great fit, but I'm curious to see what his contract range is, as he might be out of ours...given that Hibbert and Hansbrough should command a lot of minutes as well.

-Foster should be back. I'd like to see McRoberts come back and have him play a lot of Foster's minutes in the regular season to keep Feisty fresh. However, come playoff time, I'd have Foster essentially take McRoberts minutes as the second big off the bench (assuming we can get a bruiser).

-Hibbert and McRoberts have to get stronger

-Paul George needs to gain better handles and get stronger^

-Rush is a goner. He has the tools, but he lacks the aggressiveness and is seemingly out of the Pacers' plans it looks like.

-Pure shooter off the bench (maybe Rush ends up this guy because of no better options). I thought Dunleavy may be the guy after a nice Game 1, but he was pretty bad the rest of the series. His lack of aggressiveness in Game 5 was brutal, and his missing FT's in Game 4 almost cost us the game.

-I like AJ Price as a backup PG. Some of his decisionmaking was horrible, but I think some of you guys are being too hard on him. Outside of Danny, did anyone hit more "big shots" this series? I like the confidence and swagger from him as a backup PG.

Sollozzo
04-27-2011, 11:09 AM
One thing I leanred is that the Chicago Sun Time's Bulls coverage is much much better than the Chicago Tribune's Bulls coverage. What happened to the Tribune - maybe it is just their online stuff, but it is really lacking. I remember back in the 90's buying the Trib. to read about the Bulls and the playoffs.



Most newspapers in general have become bland corporately owned crap.

SMosley21
04-27-2011, 11:10 AM
If there is one thing, other than that the Pacers are awesome, that I took away from this series it is that Chicago Bulls fans are some of the whiniest/fake tough fans in all of sports.

Trader Joe
04-27-2011, 11:10 AM
I learned...

It's pretty amazing what Vogel did with this team in 3 months. Let's find out what he can do with a whole summer.

Don't trade Granger, unless you're absolutely getting an unquestionable upgrade back.

Make Roy Hibbert available in every trade negotiation that could possibly land us someone of equal or greater talent to Granger.

Keep Paul George at all costs.

Continue to look to upgrade the PG position, don't be afraid to move Collison if it can get a solid deal done.

Hansbrough is OK, but probably better suited off the bench in a long term role.

Don't resign Josh. We can find another athlete just like him.

Carlos Boozer's contract will cripple this group of Bulls chances of ever actually winning a championship.

DaveP63
04-27-2011, 11:10 AM
Marginal Marv and Steve "Bulls" Kerr wear me out trying to figure out what they're saying through mouthfulls of Chicago pork.

Justin Tyme
04-27-2011, 11:22 AM
-Rush is a goner. He has the tools, but he lacks the aggressiveness and is seemingly out of the Pacers' plans it looks like.


Rush is cut from the same bolt of cloth as his brothers. It well could be Brandon will be spoken about in the near future as Kareem in "where are they now?"

I truly regret the Pacers lost out on the Bobcats trade for Augustin, Henderson, and Nazr for Ford and Rush.

Justin Tyme
04-27-2011, 11:31 AM
Dahntay Jones has another gear.


Great post.

I have seen this twice within the last 24 hours. I don't know where this idea is coming from, but Dahntay is in year 2 of a "4" year contract. He has 2 years left on his contract with the 4th year a player option year at 2.9 mil.

Dahntay can be frustrating at times, but he's worth the salary.

Reginald
04-27-2011, 11:34 AM
...am very frustrated by the comments made by josh after game 5 regarding his ejection...Kind of a slap in the face to Danny if you ask me. I certainly wouldn't be happy if I stuck up for one of my teammates in a situation like this and they say something like Josh did.

I'm not a McRoberts fan, but I think you're reading way too much into it. If anything, Josh took the high road and Danny just needs to shut up.

CircleCity3318
04-27-2011, 11:50 AM
The hate for hibbert around here is just crazy. The man is 25 years old.. Not 35. The center position takes longer to fully develop than any other position. Also most act as if good quality centers grow on trees and they most certainly do not.

Roy is still a young center. Why trade Roy now and have him become dominant on another team? We are going to have to continue to be patient with him, after all patience is what got us to the current bright state of the team right now.

CircleCity3318
04-27-2011, 11:51 AM
I'm not a McRoberts fan, but I think you're reading way too much into it. If anything, Josh took the high road and Danny just needs to shut up.

Bingo

SMosley21
04-27-2011, 11:51 AM
Rush is cut from the same bolt of cloth as his brothers. It well could be Brandon will be spoken about in the near future as Kareem in "where are they now?"

I truly regret the Pacers lost out on the Bobcats trade for Augustin, Henderson, and Nazr for Ford and Rush.

A lot of people, including myself, already as that question about Brandon.

PR07
04-27-2011, 12:02 PM
A lot of people, including myself, already as that question about Brandon.

The thing is, Brandon is a better player than his brother, and should at least stick around the league quite a bit longer because he's an above average defender and a more consistent shooter. The problem is, he could be a lot more than this! Sometimes, you just forget he's on the court. If he's fallen out of favor with Vogel, a player's coach, then maybe he just doesn't what it takes.

joeyd
04-27-2011, 12:44 PM
Great post. Here is what I learned, but not just from the playoffs. From the time that Frank replaced JOB:

1) I don't think there is hate for Roy as some have mentioned, but I think many people, including me, think that he has issues that you cannot teach to. He is just not the aggressive/assertive guy that we had hoped for. Now, having said this, onto point #2.
2) I learned that with the right guy at the helm, a team can make an astronomical progression in a very short time. With this in mind, I am more than willing to see what Frank can do with Roy as well as DC, who is also someone that many are not sold on, but hey, it's just his second year.
3) So, I am high on Frank b/c of the amazing body of work he was able to do in a relatively short time. He deserves a 3 year contract. I would like to see him have Roy and DC work their butts off and hopefully arrange for the Pacers will bring in some folks to work with them this offseason.
4) I would like to see Danny, DC, Tyler, PG, Roy and Jeff back next season. I thank Mike, TJ, Posey, Rush and Solo for their efforts, but it's time for them to move on. On the fence about AJ, but maybe someone could work with him this summer as well. But..bye-bye Lance! Would love for Josh to stick around, but not willing to pay a high price.

Hicks
04-27-2011, 12:55 PM
I learned that veteran experience makes a difference because I was just trying to think who I felt were the players I felt were the most consistent and reliable for the time they played, and I thought of Danny, Jeff, and Dahntay.

Looking at the whole team, I'll start with point guards and work my way down.

Darren's ankle injury was a major bummer because I thought he was stepping up to the moment with his offensive game. He fizzled out, but it's impossible to know what % of that was the injury and what % was just him/basketball.

I'm okay with DC coming back as the starter because I think he has room to grow and I think offensively he can be as potent as Danny Granger. That doesn't mean I'm happy with his court vision and passing, because I'm not. If you can get a better floor general who, overall, is no worse than DC, you probably ought to get him.

AJ didn't bother me as much as he bothered Peck because when he's in the game with Rush/Jones, Dunleavy, McRoberts, and Foster, his options are basically call a play to try to get Rush or Mike open for a jump shot, pick and roll, or iso. If you lean on Mike and Brandon for your offense in the playoffs you're usually screwed, and a pick and roll with Josh (especially crippled Josh) and Jeff means the majority of the time your best option is to shoot or drive yourself, and after that it's just iso plays. So I understand why he played like a scoring guard. I can live with AJ if he can figure out how to raise his FG%.

Lance Stephenson: _________________. Next.

TJ Ford. Professional, nice guy, seems to get along with the others. Good player, to a point, but not someone you want to rely upon. I think he'll find a new team that can put him to some use.

Shooting guards.

I'm ready to move on from Dunleavy. I'm ready to move on from Rush. If I had to choose to keep one, it'd easily be Rush because good teams can usually find use for a guy like him to try to shut a single player down while knocking down shots. Dunleavy's been discussed to death, but I think it's obvious that in a playoff atmosphere his skills are less usable than normal.

Dahntay Jones is another piece that's good to have around in the playoffs. Similar to Rush with regards to it being nice to have a good wing defender, though obviously he can't be counted on to hit shots. Still, in very limited doses, he can create offense for you and bring toughness.

Paul George is obviously a keeper and the big question is how much better he can be offensively. He'll show flashes of being able to create his own shots from about 15 feet and nail them, but he needs to be able to do that about 5x as much as he currently does it. Other than that, I really, really hope he can learn to not be so limp-wristed when he tries to finish at the rim. Too many soft, soft, way below the rim, layup attempts. In the immortal words of Bill Walton, "THROW IT DOWN!!!". But defensively, I think anyone who paid attention now realizes this kid has 1st team all-defense, perhaps defensive player of the year ability, and we got a nice, extended look at that aspect of his game. He could be a monster defensively.

Small forwards.

Danny Granger consistently showed up. I admit I've tuned out on Danny and take him for granted. I became jaded when I realized he was never going to be the consistent two-way player I know/thought he could be, and offensively, I still hate it when he forces the action, but the truth remains that in the playoffs, against a terrific defensive team, he put up very solid numbers and proved we have a very good small forward. Not a superstar by any means, but a borderline all-star like Rip Hamilton was for Detroit. A keeper that can drive you nuts.

Oh God I just realized I've been brainwashed. I tucked Mike Dunleavy's comments up in the shooting guard section because I've been overexposed to the concept of him as a 2 for too many years here in Indiana. AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!

James Posey has not been here long enough for me to mistakenly list him with the power fowards. I realize that's where he played 99% of the time due to his inability to be effective at the 3 anymore, but that's ultimately what he is: A broken down small forward who can 'technically' be used at the 4 for small ball. He's clearly washed up, and my only interest in him is his now expiring contract of about $7.5 million we might be able to use as trade bait next year.

Power forwards.

We have no starter. We have two players who can masquerade as a starter, but it's just an act.

Josh McRoberts. I've never been in love with Josh as much as his biggest fans, but if your choices are he and Tyler, Josh is the better choice to pair with DC, Danny, and Roy. But that doesn't for a second mean I view him as a starting-quality player. He's interesting, he's selectively very talented (passing, finish, and dribbling), but he still has a lot of flaws that I don't think will ever be upgraded to the level of his current strengths. I also don't like the signs here and there that he's still a bit too immature. That used to be a bigger red flag in his past, and I think he's grown, but it's still there.

Tyler Hansbrough. I love scrappy, busting-their-asses-to-maximize-their-abilities guys like him, and I love underdogs, which, in this league, he clearly is. I think he's the cliche 'winner' that you always like to have on your team in terms of high-energy/effort, no quit, tough-as-nails, and willing/able to hit big shots. I think he's just 'regular athletic' as opposed to 'under athletic', I think he's more skilled than he's often given credit for, and I think he's proven the skeptics wrong who thought he would never succeed in this league.

With all of that said, he's still too small, he's not athletic enough to be a starting power forward, he's not offensively reliable, he needs serious work in the passing department as well as with his defensive awareness, and sometimes he thinks he's better than he is, to the detriment of his team.

Between the two, it's just a matter of who would you rather be our backup 4. I would rather bring Tyler Hansbrough off my bench than Josh McRoberts.

Centers.

Roy Hibbert. I haven't given up on him, but I'm certainly not optimistic anymore. I firmly believe we will not do better than Roy at the 5, and I also believe year 3 isn't necessarily a young, developing center's moment of truth. Those are why I think our best bet is to just wait him out, accept you almost certainly won't get a better center any time soon, and just keep trying to get more talented in other ways at other positions. Roy can't handle physical, playoff basketball. I was disappointed in how he regressed at dunking the ball. During the regular season, he was getting better and better at throwing it down in the paint, but it seemed like he really regressed in the post season.

With Roy, I see a hard-working, skilled, good-intentioned young man with his head on his shoulders. But I also see a guy whose body was barely meant to play basketball (I only say that because if I say a body wasn't meant to play basketball, it'd be someone whose body keeps breaking down). He's still awkward and gets off-balance too easily. I want him to strengthen his legs, but ultimately it's going to come down to improving his balance. Get big men to keep beating him up on the block this summer and drill, drill, drill at getting off his moves and finishing with all of that contact. Learn to find your balance while you're getting bumped around.

There's still hope for Roy.

Jeff Foster. Reports of his demise have been greatly exaggerated. Love what he brings, love his legacy with this team, and I'd welcome him back for another couple years, if he can handle it. Nothing else needs to be said, really. We all know what he does, and he's proven that he can still bring it in spades when it matters the most. I hope he retires a Pacer. Maybe Herb will give him an Acura when he retires.

Solomon Jones. I'm done with him. He has some ability, but not enough ability for me to care about him. Enter the Stanko.

-----

So what does that make the blue print look like?

Well, let's start with what I'm comfortable with. I'm comfortable with our starting shooting guard, our starting small forward, our backup power forward, and our backup center.

That would be Paul George, Danny Granger, Tyler Hansbrough, and Jeff Foster.

So I guess the first thing I'll add to the 2011 To Do List is re-sign Jeff Foster.

Next, who would I not think twice about losing? I'll list them all, but keep in mind I like some of them.

TJ Ford, AJ Price, Lance Stephenson, Brandon Rush, Mike Dunleavy, James Posey, Josh McRoberts, Solomon Jones.

So next on the To Do List is to let Ford, Dunleavy, McRoberts, and Jones leave, though explore sign-and-trades just in case.

Next on the To Do List is explore yet another possible trade of Brandon Rush. If you like what you see, take it.

AJ Price I can take or leave. He's got a non-guaranteed contract, so I'm totally fine with exploring other possibilities at the backup point guard spot.

So next on the To Do List is to try to get a new backup point with more experience who is preferably much bigger and stronger than DC. Jarrett Jack comes to mind. If he hadn't totally scared me away with all that BS drama in Detroit, I'd mention Rodney Stuckey as a thought, but I'm very gunshy with anyone from the 2011 Pistons. Otherwise, a veteran like Felton is interesting.

That leaves the folks who I acknowledge that an upgrade would be preferred, but I doubt we'll do better, and/or I also don't think they're that bad.

Darren Collison, Dahntay Jones, Roy Hibbert.

It's hard to decide where to put Dahntay. Ultimately I'm okay with him, though preferably as the 4th or 5th wing.

Look, I see what you all see with DC and Roy's weaknesses. They both drive me crazy on occasion. But I seriously doubt we do better any time soon, so get used to them. Thankfully, they're not a total lost cause, and they both very well might improve.

----

So let's see:

Summary of the To Do List (in no particular order)

* Re-sign Jeff Foster
* Let Ford, Dunleavy, McRoberts, and Jones walk, explore sign-and-trades if applicable
* Place Stephenson, Rush, and Posey on the trading block
* Be open to trading anyone else, but don't lose sleep over it
* Be looking for a better starting point guard and a better starting center, but don't hold your breath
* Heavily pursue a superior starting power forward who brings a lot of size, doesn't get pushed around, and the more athletic the better
* Look for a superior backup point guard with more size, strength, and experience
* Look for a superior backup shooting guard who can create his own offense
* Look for a new backup small forward who hopefully plays better defense than Dunleavy
* Look for Jeff Foster's successor (Stanko?)

Collison/New bPG or AJ Price
George/New bSG or Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush
Granger/New bSF
New PF/Hansbrough
Hibbert/Foster

That should hopefully be the worst case scenario roster when the season starts.

If we keep the 15th pick, I'd hope we take a stab at a backup 3 or 5.

Major Cold
04-27-2011, 01:20 PM
Why do we have to spend all our cap relief this offseason? Do we want to repeat what Detroit did with Gordon and CharlieV?

Sit on most of it.

joeyd
04-27-2011, 01:23 PM
So I guess the first thing I'll add to the 2011 To Do List is re-sign Jeff Foster.


I definitely agree, especially if Mackey Rose gives his blessing!

Besides re-signing Jeff, the other matter that should be settled independent of any other is to sign Vogel to a 3 year contract.

Sookie
04-27-2011, 01:29 PM
What I learned, these guys have a lot of heart. They are capable of playing really good defense, and are capable of competing with elite teams. We've known this all year, as they've shown flashes, but to do it for four games in a row..I was proud. It's unfortunate, we really should have been more in this series.

Individual players

I'm still on DC's side. He didn't have a great playoff series after the ankle turn. And he dribbles around in circles too much, but he also can make some really good plays and is a good scorer. He's not everyone's ideal point guard, but certainly give him another year of development.

It's extremely difficult to learn the PG position. Collison had had to learn 4 or 5 different offenses because he's had 4 or 5 different coaches. He was put in a position that had a lot of pressure on him, and for the first half of the season, was in an offense that didn't suit him at all. And in the playoffs, he showed a lot of toughness. From the first game of going right at Rose, to the third game of playing despite his injury. He's a second year guy, he needs to develop. Over the summer he needs to work on controlling his body, controlling the ball, and controlling the team. To me, that's his biggest problem.

Roy Hibbert needs to get stronger, mentally and physically. And mentally is a bigger issue. I don't know what Jimmy did to him, because I don't remember him being this soft mentally in college. But he needs to come out of it and get his head on straight. No more getting too high or too low. He also needs to strengthen his core. He gets pushed around too easily.

I was really hoping Roy would have a fantastic season. When a guy works as hard as Roy did, you really want him to succeed. And he had some really good moments this season and this series, but overall, I expected him to be better. I still think he has the potential to be better, and I fully expect him to work just as hard this summer. But I don't know that he's got the mentality for being anything more than a solid starter. Hopefully I'm wrong and it's just an age + Jimmy thing.

AJ Price, has some how become the new whipping boy. One mistake or one bad shot seemed to equal omgihateajhesux!! Good timing, seeing as Dun unfortunately most likely won't be back. I would have thought people would be more reasonable with their expectations for AJ this season, but whatever. He actually played very well in the playoffs overall. He didn't play like some wanted him too (me included) but he played well.

That said, the mentality change from AJ bothers me more than anyone here. I've watched the kid for a long time. Being a court general, is the best part of his game. In fact, it's the reason I'm a fan. Don't get me wrong, he always got his confidence from shooting. But he always had a fantastic balance of knowing when to look for his own shot and when to set others up. On the one hand, given the lineups he was put on the floor with, and that I think Vogel looked at him as a primary scorer, I understand why he played the way he played. But..whether it was simply his role for this season, whether it was scars from O'brien, or whether AJ just made a sudden switch in on court personality for whatever reason, I hope that his focus over the summer (other than no knee injuries kthx) is to get back to playing like a "court general" and getting his mind back into the better balance he once had. (he can also work on defense and a more consistent shot..)

Tyler and Josh, to me they go together. My dream scenario is to keep them both, have Josh play backup Center (getting stronger) Tyler play backup PF, and get a PF. The Pacers need a better defender and rebounder up front next to Roy. And Neither Tyler or Josh are ever going to become that. But I adore them both (so I hate the fighting over them..) and hope we keep both. (Not so worried about keeping Tyler..)

I'd like them both to work on their midrange shot. As I said, Josh needs to get stronger, Tyler needs to work on passing. But I like what each one brings to the table.

Danny Granger really showed up this series. That was what I needed to see from him. He shot well, he defended well. He led the team. He stuck up for Josh and Tyler when Noah went after them. This series made me like Danny Granger more than I ever have. And I never got on the "Blame Danny" train.

Is he elite. No, I don't think so. He's not Kobe Lebron, Durant or Wade. But there are only four of those guys. I think he's certainly in the next tier. We just need another guy equal to him in talent..and to wait until Paul George develops.

Jeff Foster..If he wants to come back, he should get to come back. He can clearly still contribute. He was great in this series. Which was great to see. If he retires, this is probably a really good way to go.

Dahntay is Dahntay and Brandon is Brandon. At this point they are what they are, and if you like them you like them, and if you don't you don't. I personally like them both in a limited role. But we only need one of them.

and finally Paul George. Paul George's defense is really spectacular. The way he played Rose was fantastic, and he should get an unlimited amount of praise for it. I just..could go on and on about how excited I am about this kid. Because I honestly, 100% believe, that Paul George has the potential to be one of the best players in this league. He has the offensive and defensive skills, wait until they develop. To me, Paul George is the only guy who is off limits in terms of trading this season. Like, completely off limits unless someone wants to give us an elite talent for him. I'm not typically huge on potential. But my god..

And to me, this was not a coming out party for Paul George. This was just a glimpse of him. I think, like Hibbert, he's got the work ethic to really improve. And he seems like a smart kid with a good mentality too. So all signs point to really really good things for him.

For over the summer, we need a starting PF more than anything. I also think we need an SG that can score, not for long, because I expect PG to get there..and if we just wanted to roll with PG and quickly develop him that's fine, but I wouldn't mind getting an SG that can score, and letting PG develop a little slower.

Unclebuck
04-27-2011, 01:33 PM
I think it would be a mistake for the Pacers to just sort of go with the flow this summer. Going with the flow means let the free agents contract expire, keep all those currently under contract and add a draft pick, 3 free agents and come back next year and see what happens. I think the core needs to change. If I were in charge I would be looking to keep Tyler, George, and Granger and look to wheel and deal everyone else.

This is the most important summer for the Pacers in many many years (wasn't there a year back in the 90's where the Pacers re-signed Reggie, AD and DD. It is as important as that. if the right moves are made this summer the franchise could very well be set for the next 5 or 6 years.

I am expecting major changes, because we finally have cap space and some tradeable player that I think we should be willing to trade.

Trader Joe
04-27-2011, 02:22 PM
Was Brandon's D that great this series? I'm gonna be honest, I thought it sucked. He was easily the worst defensive wing other than Dunleavy IMO.

Peck
04-27-2011, 02:35 PM
Was Brandon's D that great this series? I'm gonna be honest, I thought it sucked. He was easily the worst defensive wing other than Dunleavy IMO.

Vogel must have agreed with you because anytime that Rose came on the floor during games 3 & 4 Brandon came out.

I'll say this, his defense was not stellar to be certain. Unlike Paul's which was almost otherwordly considering his is a rookie.

Trader Joe
04-27-2011, 02:46 PM
Rush was getting worked the entire series chasing people around screens. I don't know Brandon is not long for the NBA world at this point I think.

GizzyStardust
04-27-2011, 03:44 PM
Why do we have to spend all our cap relief this offseason? Do we want to repeat what Detroit did with Gordon and CharlieV?

This is undoubtedly my biggest fear. I sincerely hope and expect that our management is prudent enough not to fall into this trap.

Also, I agree 100% with the sentiment that some of you have expressed about resigning Foster. He still has some gas left in the tank and proved (as usual) to be an invaluable team presence and role player off the bench this postseason. That man should retire as a Pacer.

KingGeorge
04-27-2011, 04:00 PM
What I learned from the playoffs...

- Paul George is the man. He will be our best player in 2 years.

- I thought Vogel deserved the job even if we didn't make the playoffs, but he proved that he is going to take this team far in years to come, if given the chance.

- Maybe I expected too much, but Hansbrough didn't show up in this series offensively after game 1. We must upgrade at the PF position over the summer.

- We need to find a dependable backup PG.

- People are getting excited about the Pacers again :)

- Vogel was right when he said it would be a special end to this season.

- The season ended to early.

Eleazar
04-27-2011, 04:33 PM
Granger finally decided to play like he should in the regular season.

If Roy doesn't get stronger and tougher he isn't the answer. I'm not asking for Dale Davis tough, but just the ability to hold is own.

George will defiantly be on the 1st team all-defense in his future.

Price is clutch, has more potential to be a true PG than Collison, but isn't good enough to play Price ball and not getting others involved.

Rush I don't get why people think we need to get rid of him after this series. When he was given time he played well. He wasn't perfect, but he didn't have a bad minute the whole series. I don't know what Vogel was thinking playing Dunleavy over him. I swear most of you guys just watch the ball and not the whole game.

Kraft
04-27-2011, 05:12 PM
To me, you structurally need a roster of 10 solid players. The final five can be whatever ... projects, rookies, expiring contracts or the Kool-Aid man. Whatever.

You need two point guards, three impact wings, a fourth rotational wing, three impact bigs and a fourth rotational big.

What do the Pacers have?

PG -- Darren Collison: Pluses and minuses have been discussed. Could they do better? Sure. But I don't want to get into who the Pacers could get rather than what roles they need to fill.
PG -- [NEED]
WING -- Paul George: Obviously, a lot of talent and potential.
WING -- Danny Granger: Where was this guy all season?
WING -- [NEED]
FOURTH WING -- Dahntay Jones: Under reasonable contract. Plays hard. Similar to Rush, but you don't need two glue guys like this in your rotation.
BIG Roy Hibbert -- Kind of the same ground as Collison for me. Talent, but deficiencies. Is upgrade possible? Yeah. But you can at least call him one of three solid bigs.
BIG Tyler Hansbrough -- I prefer him off the bench.
BIG [NEED]
FOURTH BIG Jeff Foster -- Not under contract. Wish he was. Perfect player for this role.

And the leftovers ...

Lance Stephenson: Who knows? Fine project on end of bench if he weren't, well, you know.
A.J. Price: As project guy on end of bench, great ... otherwise, meh.
Solomon Jones: Let him go.
Mike Dunleavy: Let him go.
Brandon Rush: Trade him. Not good enough offensively to be third wing. Not enough motor to supplant Dahntay Jones as situational wing.
Josh McRoberts: Let him go, because he'll cost too much to re-sign. Not good enough to be an impact player down low. Never will be. Don't want to pay him remotely in that range. Would rather have Foster as a fourth contributor for all the intangibles he brings.
T.J. Ford: Let him go, way obviously.
James Posey: Might as well be the Kool-Aid man.

What's available out there? Not worth the time and energy to analyze every scenario.

What's needed?

-- Another wing that can consistently put the ball in the bucket.
-- Another big man that can score down low. Has to have some cajones and girth, unlike our 7-foot-2 center.
-- Either an impact PG to supplant Collison, or a very credible backup.

Young
04-27-2011, 06:15 PM
Some seem ready to give up on Roy. I am not. For one the guy works hard. He will improve. This was only his third year in the league. Big men usually take a little longer to develop. Plus who are the Pacers going to get to replace him? I am not saying that Roy doesn't need to step up big time next season but when you consider his skills, talents, and who else the Pacers can get to play center Roy is one of the last guys I want to see traded.

There is no doubt that the Pacers need another quality big man though. They need someone with size who is VERY physical.

Paul George was one of the most impressive players in the series. His focus on defense was outstanding.

Danny Granger impressed me too. He showed up to play every game of the series. Overall Darren Collison impressed me with his play as well.

This series highlighted the Pacers need for another scorer. Not much more to say on that.

The two things that weight most on my mind have nothing to do with players.

One is Frank Vogel should be back as head coach. He earned it. Halfway through the season I wasn't for sure. Looking at it though I think he deserves to be named head coach. Don't even bother interviewing someone else. Interviewing other coaches sends a message that you are not sold on Vogel and I guess I am. This series has given this team an identity to work with.

The whole situation with Larry bothers me. I think he has earned the right to come back. I believe he has done an outstanding job with this team. The rumors worry me because it makes me wonder what has gone on behind the scenes. I just want to see some stability and believe that if Larry wants to come back he deserves to.

BringJackBack
04-27-2011, 06:22 PM
Some seem ready to give up on Roy. I am not. For one the guy works hard. He will improve. This was only his third year in the league. Big men usually take a little longer to develop. Plus who are the Pacers going to get to replace him? I am not saying that Roy doesn't need to step up big time next season but when you consider his skills, talents, and who else the Pacers can get to play center Roy is one of the last guys I want to see traded.


:ding:

I think he'll be a center who, in the Playoffs can log 26-30 minutes per game and play very well, but he needs a lot of help at the backup center spot who can rebound and hit a high percentage of shots around the rim. A guy with a lot of mass. Someone like Marcin Gortat or Chuck Hayes.

A modern day Shaq minus the injuries fits the bill perfectly as a 'polar opposite' to Roy.

CableKC
04-27-2011, 06:29 PM
"I'm not mad about it," McRoberts said. "He got a good hit on me. They caught me trying to hit him back.

"It's part of the game. I'm not going to say it's dirty. That's Game 5 of a playoff series. You can't say it's dirty, it's part of basketball."

Kind of a slap in the face to Danny if you ask me. I certainly wouldn't be happy if I stuck up for one of my teammates in a situation like this and they say something like Josh did.

Anyway, I am way excited about the future of our team.
I have no problem with what McBob said and don't see it as a slap in the face after Granger stood up for him. If anything, McBob is taking the high road here and is saying what everyone else is saying...that this is the Playoffs and this is expected.

ilive4sports
04-27-2011, 06:52 PM
There is a lot to like with this team. Some of our players have a bright future, some have a very bright future (Paul George is going to be special). Some are what you see is what you get.

Maybe I was overrating Danny the past few years, but I really feel like this series showed who I have been supporting all along. He elevated his level of play this series. Not even Reggie would have won us this series. The problem isn't Danny, it never was. Is his shot selection great? No, its much better on Vogel and this whole notion that he doesn't drive needs to be dispelled because it's simply not true. He will always be a guy who in transition, takes a quick three. The misses bother you a lot, but he hits them regularly and they are huge momentum shots too. Danny is a damn good player. Kerr kept saying he isn't a superstar, and he is right. But only a handful of players are superstars. And even those superstars can't do it alone. Not Kobe, not LeBron, not Dwight, not Wade. So it is really time that management gets Danny the help he needs so we can get it done.

I get all tingly inside when I think of Paul George's future. He reminds me so much of Tracy McGrady (I'M NOT SAYING HE WILL BE TRACY OR AVERAGE 30PPG). I'm saying he has a similar flow to his offense. I think his ceiling is higher than Danny's and he has the work ethic to reach it. Year three will be his year. Next year is too soon though. I think his offense will come a long way, but its not time to ask him to be that second offensive option. Just keep up the great defense Paul. You will be an All NBA defender sooner than later.

Right now we have a team full of third options to pair with Danny. At times each can be a second option, hell sometimes they can be the first option. But none are consistent enough to be the second option. This is Collison/Hansbrough/Hibbert. Darren is the most consistent and is a good young point guard. He has his faults. But I do think he can run the offense (can we give him a coach for more than a few months). His mid range jumper is deadly. He can knock down threes. He can attack the basket. He is a scoring PG. He's more Russell Westbrook than Steve Nash. Well his defense is more Nash than Westbrook but thats another story. But he can run the offense. He won't be feeding the post because he is too short. But he can create offense with his speed. He is young and deserves a full season under one coach who has been here since the off season before we say he can't be the answer. He had a great game one and half of game 2 before he went out.

Hansbrough should be starting. I don't care what the numbers are between him and McRoberts. When I see him on the court, he gives us a reliable scoring option that the starters need. You need to improve your starting line up before you improve the bench. I would have liked to see more post ups with him in the post season. I feel like he was just given jumpers when he clearly wasn't hitting them. But credit Chicago because they are a great defensive team and I think they bothered him. With Hansbrough in the starting line up, we have a better chance at winning when Roy is useless than we do with McRoberts. Is Hans the answer at PF? Probably not. He is better suited being the first big off the bench, but thats not behind McRoberts.

And this leads us to Hibbert. I love Roy. I see so much potential in his game. He is very skilled. But man, he needs to hit the gym hard this summer. He did great at losing weight. And he is better for it. He needed to lose that fat. But now he needs to put on muscle. He needs it everywhere honestly, but especially in his legs and his core. He can't be pushed off the block anymore. He has to be able to finish at the rim. He has the skill to do so, but he lacks the strength right now. With his old weight he was more comfortable down there, but losing it threw him off his game. As the season went on and he just kept losing weight (what was he, in the 250lbs area in this series?) and thats why his first month was so good. He was at his strongest then. So hit the weights this off season big fella.

I feel like the rest of the roster is what you see what you get. Will AJ ever be a point guard again? He seemed to get worse as the season went on. I hope he can get back to playing point guard, but to me, he is a third string PG. It doesn't help that the second unit isn't really a scoring threat, but he didn't even attempt to run the offense. Dunleavy, I mean we could do worse, but at best he is a back up SF. Check the market and see whats out there before resigning him to a reasonable contract. Bring Foster back if he doesn't retire. He is a great person to have on your roster. Rush is well, we saw he barely played when it mattered. There is a reason for that. DJ is DJ too. Someone to keep because he plays great defense and can be a spark off the bench.

I know some will hate me for this, but McRoberts is pretty much the player that he will be. He doesn't have post skills. He isn't a good defender. He isn't a rebounder. He's Mike Dunleavy at the PF position. He does some good stuff, but ultimately you want more from your PF, starter or back up. I wouldn't be upset if we didn't resign him. At least Foster will rebound and defend to make up his offensive liability. McRoberts is good for ball movement. He is a big at the end of the bench you go too when the rest are in foul trouble.

Ultimately we need a consistent second option. Thats why I want to see someone like Jamal Crawford brought in to play off the bench. Someone who can give us 25 mins in a rotation with Paul George and Danny Granger. We need another guy to take pressure of Roy and Collison. We need another veteran too. Also we need a PF. But I don't know if one is out there. Randolph is staying in Memphis and West probably wont be an FA with his knee injury. Not sure who we could get in a trade to solve the problems either, but they need to be a defender and a rebounder. That way we have him paired with Roy who isn't a defender/rebounder guy and we have Hans, a scorer, paired with Foster.

There is a lot to like about this team. They certainly have the heart and character. That goes a long way. I think we have a coach too. Keep Frank here. The team likes and respects him and he coaches with common sense. I don't always agree with him 100%, but there isn't a coach that exists out there that I do. So lock him up for a few years Larry and get to work on a starting PF and back up SG who can score.

speakout4
04-27-2011, 07:13 PM
Rush is cut from the same bolt of cloth as his brothers. It well could be Brandon will be spoken about in the near future as Kareem in "where are they now?"

I truly regret the Pacers lost out on the Bobcats trade for Augustin, Henderson, and Nazr for Ford and Rush.
Any trade for Rush would have been good but it's too late now to get value.