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View Full Version : Kravitz article & suprise suprise it's not just about the crowd



Peck
04-24-2011, 03:39 AM
In fact I really like the way he spells out why the crowd was the way it was and properly put's it in perspective why the locals didn't just flock back in. Doesn't make anybody happy for sure, but what he say's makes sense.

In fact I don't judge Bob articles because I know that Bob's job is to make us talk about Bob, which he is very good at doing. But in this case I think Bob is on the money here.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110424/SPORTS15/104240378/1062/SPORTS04/Surprising-Pacers-continue-play-beyond-expectations

Written by
Bob Kravitz

CHICAGO Sorry. My mistake.

INDIANAPOLIS

Maybe there will be more Indiana Pacers fans in the house for Game 6 on Thursday at Conseco Fieldhouse.

What? You don't think that's possible?

The Pacers were supposed to get run out of United Center in Game 1 of this playoff series. Didn't happen. The Chicago Bulls were supposed to wake up and slap some sense into the Pacers in Game 2. Didn't happen. The Bulls were supposed to lay down the law in Game 3, show the world why they're the No. 1 seed. Didn't happen.

Everybody outside the Indiana locker room seems to think there will be a Bulls coronation Tuesday night after the Pacers' 89-84 Game 4 victory Saturday, but after four copycat games, it's abundantly clear there's not that much difference between these teams.

"We know (no NBA team has ever come back) down 3-0, but we know it's going to happen at some point, and we're trying to make it us, be that team,'' Indiana interim coach Frank Vogel said. "This is still a series.''

Whatever happens Tuesday night in the Madhouse on Madison -- as opposed to the Madhouse Near Meridian, as was the case Saturday afternoon -- this was a victory the Pacers absolutely deserved. They've done too many good things, played the Bulls too tough in every game, to have history remember them as the victims of just another first-round sweep.

The Bulls won the first three games by a total of 15 points. The Pacers won Saturday by five points. This thing isn't in the same area code as over. Though, just in case, Pacers president Larry Bird might ask commissioner David Stern to reduce the length of games to, say, 45 minutes the rest of the playoffs.

"Let's face it, even though we were up 3-0, we are not playing good basketball,'' Chicago's Kyle Korver said. "Maybe it's time for a reality check.''

Reality? Here's the reality: For all the grousing in Chicago about how the Bulls have "played down'' to their competition, these Pacers have come of age and are a whole lot better than most of us believed.

There was so much good stuff Saturday -- for 45 minutes again -- it's hard to know where to start:

Danny Granger continued to quiet his critics. Is he an alpha-dog superstar who's going to be Indiana's version of Derrick Rose? No. But when he's eventually surrounded by more scoring threats, he's going to be a special player.

Jeff Foster forgot to check his birth certificate and acted like he was 25 years old again. It's not often a player scores two points and has that kind of impact on a game. And he didn't even maim Rose this time around. The Pacers' bench, which has been good all year, outscored Chicago's reserves 30-17.

Roy Hibbert got mad and played mad, producing 16 points, 10 rebounds and three blocked shots. Somebody in the Pacers organization has got to be responsible for firing up the big man every night with a well-timed insult. Maybe get an intern on it.

For the first time all series, they shot more free throws than the Bulls. They didn't turn the ball over, except for the last few minutes -- and how often have I written the phrase, "except for the last few minutes'' in this series? The Bulls had no fast-break points.

The only disappointment came not on the floor, but in the stands. What do you say? Sixty-forty Bulls fans? Sixty-five, thirty-five? At one point, I thought, "Wow, it'll be nice to leave the game and go hit the bars on Rush Street.'' The biggest surprise is we didn't see Oprah in the fieldhouse. This might have marked the first time the home team tried to shut up its home crowd.

Embarrassing? Sure. Unexpected? Not really. (For Chicagoans who pay two months' mortgage for a seat at United Center, the fieldhouse is a bargain.) Disgraceful? Not in the least.

During the first half, Pacers executive Rick Fuson angrily walked over to some reporters and, noting the sea of red, said, "I hope Indiana learns.''

Please.

You can't field a lousy and thoroughly irrelevant team for four-plus years, then have a decent two months and expect the entire city to reach for its wallets. It's like the Colts playoff game in 1999 when Tennessee Titans fans filled the RCA Dome, before the Colts really became the Colts. This is a small market, really a soft market, and you can't undo years of mediocrity and worse overnight, especially during these harsh economic times.

Vogel, by comparison, had it right. When asked about the crowd, he smirked.

"I only heard Pacers fans,'' he said. "I didn't see any red, only yellow and blue. I only heard Pacers chants. That's all I heard.''

We keep waiting for the Bulls to look like the 62-victory team that rolled through the regular season. And it isn't happening.

We keep waiting for the Pacers, who won just 37 games and only became better-than-average the last half of the season, to fall to pieces and look like they don't belong on the same court. And it isn't happening.

What's to say they can't do this again in Game 6 at Chicago?

Who knows? Maybe more Pacers fans will show up next time.

Trader Joe
04-24-2011, 03:48 AM
He makes strong, salient points.

And yes this game was very comparable to the Titans game in 99. Young team, terrible for a solid stretch (the colts even longer), a weekend afternoon game with a city that isn't that far away (Chicago is only about 3 hours, like we wouldn't make that drive to see the number 1 seeded Pacers play if the roles were reversed?)

The only way the two games don't compare?

The Pacers actually won.

KingGeorge
04-24-2011, 03:51 AM
I thought this was a great article.

I really hope we can force a game 6 to see if there is any difference. I honestly think there will be.

Trader Joe
04-24-2011, 03:52 AM
I thought this was a great article.

I really hope we can force a game 6 to see if there is any difference. I honestly think there will be.

Of course there will be. The game Thursday was probably 80-20 Pacer fans and that was at the start of a long weeekend.

Next Thursday IF they can come back, it will be a weekday, probably an early start 7pm for us (6pm for them) and the city will probably have a pretty nice buzz about the team by then.

This is all part of the process folks, we knew it would happen, just sucks that we got a bandwagoning fanbase that also happens to only be 3 hours away.

King Tuts Tomb
04-24-2011, 03:53 AM
During the first half, Pacers executive Rick Fuson angrily walked over to some reporters and, noting the sea of red, said, "I hope Indiana learns.''

Please.

You can't field a lousy and thoroughly irrelevant team for four-plus years, then have a decent two months and expect the entire city to reach for its wallets.

Exactly.

Trader Joe
04-24-2011, 03:57 AM
Plus, I don't know exactly what Rick Fuson does, but me thinks he's going to get a talking to that his little sound bite made it out into the media. Not exactly the way to bring the casual fan back.

cdash
04-24-2011, 04:03 AM
I actually thought this was a great article by Kravitz.

I just want to say this somewhere in the midst of all these threads: I love this team. This might be my favorite Pacer team of all time. I am only 25 and saw a lot of great Reggie-led teams during my formative years, but this team has took us all for a ride this year that has felt special. Peaks and valleys galore. You think they turn the corner when Obie got the axe, they have a locker room meltdown, give some of the worst efforts I've ever seen out of a pro sports team (the Minnesota and Toronto games), and then pull through it and not only make the playoffs, but really made us believe in this team again. I love rooting for this team. I always have been on the "I just want to win, character doesn't mean all that much to me" bandwagon, but watching this group of guys, with this coach, just makes me proud of our team. This has been an incredibly enjoyable season for me as a fan, and I wasn't just spitting out BS when I said in another thread that I thought we could still win this series. I honestly think we can do it. I believe in this team. I'm proud to be a fan of this team, regardless of what happens.

pizza guy
04-24-2011, 05:48 AM
Good article, and I agree with Fuson. I hope Indiana learns.

AesopRockOn
04-24-2011, 06:01 AM
He quoted himself more than he quoted the players he kept asking the same questions to during the post-game, but, like others have iterated, great write-up by the badger man.

Unclebuck
04-24-2011, 07:39 AM
I agree with Fusion. It was a disgrace. I don't care what the reasons were, it was embarassing and disgusting. No reason is valid IMO. And just to be clear, I am not mad at the bulls fans, I am mad at the Pacers fans. Pacers fans had at least every opportunity to get the tickets that ended up in the hands of Bulls fans.

mildlysane
04-24-2011, 07:54 AM
What's to say they can't do this again in Game 6 at Chicago?

Editors must be off for Easter...

Anthem
04-24-2011, 08:03 AM
Danny Granger continued to quiet his critics. Is he an alpha-dog superstar who's going to be Indiana's version of Derrick Rose? No. But when he's eventually surrounded by more scoring threats, he's going to be a special player.
And by "his critics," Bob means "me."


What's to say they can't do this again in Game 6 at Chicago?
I guaranty we won't win Game 6 at Chicago.

owl
04-24-2011, 08:46 AM
Peck, I know you did not want the Bulls for exactly the way the game crowd turned out on Saturday but despite that are you pleased about the series? I know the Pacers are losing but I wanted the Pacers to have to play the hardest team in the playoffs in the
most difficult situations possible.

Peck
04-24-2011, 11:58 AM
Peck, I know you did not want the Bulls for exactly the way the game crowd turned out on Saturday but despite that are you pleased about the series? I know the Pacers are losing but I wanted the Pacers to have to play the hardest team in the playoffs in the
most difficult situations possible.

Yes, I'm thrilled with the way our club has battled. This series has turned out to be far far more meaningful than I ever dreamed it could have been.

I wanted them to get playoff experiance & even had they been beaten soundly I always thought at least they could see what to prepare for when sometime in the future they might compete for a series.

Never did I dream that we'd make the 1st seed work like madmen & need superstar power to be able to slip past us in each game.

So is this a learning experiance? You bet, but instead of it being elementry school I feel like our guys are working on masters degree's.

Basketball Fan
04-24-2011, 12:04 PM
I agree with Fusion. It was a disgrace. I don't care what the reasons were, it was embarassing and disgusting. No reason is valid IMO. And just to be clear, I am not mad at the bulls fans, I am mad at the Pacers fans. Pacers fans had at least every opportunity to get the tickets that ended up in the hands of Bulls fans.


Yep and they can't complain when people call Indianapolis a frontrunning sports town when it is a frontrunning sports town.

Its games like yesterday where it makes it crystal clear.

hoosierguy
04-24-2011, 12:05 PM
I am pleasantly surprised by this article from Kravitz. He didn't rag on Pacers fans for the number of Bulls fans at the game and explained, as I have, the reasons for the attendance disparity.

He seems genuinely positive about the direction of this franchise which is nice to see.

This column is a complete 180 from the one he wrote about Manning being a postseason choker, despite having better numbers than Brady.

threein73
04-24-2011, 12:14 PM
absolutely love Vogel's comments in the article about the crowd He heard and cares about! Again, KEEP FRANK!

Basketball Fan
04-24-2011, 12:16 PM
I am pleasantly surprised by this article from Kravitz. He didn't rag on Pacers fans for the number of Bulls fans at the game and explained, as I have, the reasons for the attendance disparity.

He seems genuinely positive about the direction of this franchise which is nice to see.

This column is a complete 180 from the one he wrote about Manning being a postseason choker, despite having better numbers than Brady.


Yes but Brady has more rings and as much as that sucks that's what matters in the end.

That being said the Colts wouldn't even be in the discussion without Manning anyways.

hoosierguy
04-24-2011, 12:21 PM
Yes but Brady has more rings and as much as that sucks that's what matters in the end.

That being said the Colts wouldn't even be in the discussion without Manning anyways.

No, his TEAM has more rings. Brady's postseason numbers are worse than Peyton's.

MaHa3000
04-24-2011, 12:23 PM
I wonder how many of those Bulls fans at the game were Indianapolis residents who had routed for the Pacers in the past.

I hope there wasn't anyone that fits into that category, but if so, those bandwagoners can suck it!

grace
04-24-2011, 12:29 PM
I don't care what the reasons were, it was embarassing and disgusting. No reason is valid IMO.

How about being unemployed for over a year? Can't afford the ticket and the $4/gallon gas to get to the game if you don't have a paycheck coming in.

Basketball Fan
04-24-2011, 12:32 PM
How about being unemployed for over a year? Can't afford the ticket and the $4/gallon gas to get to the game if you don't have a paycheck coming in.

This I agree with but I think UB was referring to those fans who probably had tickets to this game and sold them to Bulls fans(and yes people in Indy are notorious with this for the Colts and Pacers)

Basketball Fan
04-24-2011, 12:34 PM
No, his TEAM has more rings. Brady's postseason numbers are worse than Peyton's.



Like it matters nobody cares about numbers they care about rings.

That's why guys like Kobe/MJ/Magic etc are always going to be held in higher regard than players like Malone/Ewing/Miller.

I never said it was fair I'm just pointing out the reality.

There's a difference.

I think Manning is a better QB than Brady and even if I weren't a Colts fan I'd still say this but he only has one ring to show for it.

He'll never be held in the same regard as Montana (although Bradshaw has 4 rings too and he's thought of far less)

Sollozzo
04-24-2011, 12:41 PM
How about being unemployed for over a year? Can't afford the ticket and the $4/gallon gas to get to the game if you don't have a paycheck coming in.



That's definitely a valid excuse for some, but it's not like the entire metro area is unemployed. The number 1 reason for people not going yesterday has to be: "the series was over after Thursday night so I'm not spending my Saturday watching something that's already over."

Trophy
04-24-2011, 12:44 PM
I'm hoping next season will be a hell of a lot better than this whole season.

It's really embarrassing hearing ESPN even commenting on it being like a Bulls home game.

Of all places, Indy? For a Pacers playoff game?

Even when we had the bad guys, we were still winning and the place was filled with Pacers fans so I don't believe in people writing off the team for good due to that.

People I wouldn't think are that stupid, I'm sure the casual fans are aware of where this team is at.

I really enjoyed the Thursday crowd. It appeared like it was 70-80% Pacers fans and it sounded like a real home crowd. I just want to know where everyone went?

Oh well. Next season, hopefully will be like it was back when we were always in the playoffs.

Honestly, after not making the playoffs since 2006 I thought it was going to be like this, but the following season will be a lot better. It seems to be the case for most teams. Make the playoffs the previous year and next season everyone is back on board.

McKeyFan
04-24-2011, 03:03 PM
For Kravitz to be so positive about Vogel and the Pacers, you gotta figure the stark contrast with his predecessor is a big part of the reason.

However, this playoff performance has changed the recipe from just the fact that Obie is gone to—one part no Obie and one part Vogel has some skillz.

Scot Pollard
04-24-2011, 03:10 PM
Kravitz is good with attendance analysis and to be honest with you it's easy to figure it out.

This is all new for people here. Playoffs/good basketball hasn't been at the Fieldhouse for the past 5 years.

Give it next season and I guarantee the place will be filled constantly and we won't have to see THIS many opposing suckers.

Hoosiers cannot resist good basketball. Especially if it's from the Pacers.

The interest is way higher so I'm fully expecting us to average over 16,000 in attendance.

Lord Helmet
04-24-2011, 03:38 PM
It'll take more than one year of playoffs to fill Conseco back up. People forget that when we last made the playoffs, that we had made the playoffs for like 10 consecutive years.

The casuals won't really care yet, and probably just call this year a fluke. We have to be consistent to have the casual/bandwagons back.

BillS
04-24-2011, 03:41 PM
We start off the year winning home games and we'll see the attendance go up. We have a lockout, or we play poorly in the preseason or early games, and it'll be echo city again.

It's a matter of carrying through the progress made so far.

speakout4
04-24-2011, 03:55 PM
I'm just hoping that our guys wearing the Bulls down in hard fought games and Derrick's swollen ankle will result in their getting their asses kicked in the next round. Nothing personal but there was no respect either from the Bull players or their fans.

Unclebuck
04-24-2011, 05:23 PM
How about being unemployed for over a year? Can't afford the ticket and the $4/gallon gas to get to the game if you don't have a paycheck coming in.


what you are saying might hold some weight if I was complaining about all Pacers fans not being there. Obviously I am only looking for 18,135 Pacers fans to be there. and I am sure there are at least 18,135 Pacers fans who hve a job and who can afford the cost of the ticket and the cost of gas to get to the game. I'm sure there are 10X - 15X times that number. No, about 10,000 Pacers fans choose not to attend the game Saturday.

so if there are Pacers fans who could not make the game because they are unemployed and can't afford the ticket and the cost to drive to the game, I give them a pass.

graphic-er
04-24-2011, 05:30 PM
To the people of Central Indiana who sat at home and watched these 4 games.

Are you not entertained? What more do you want? How can you sit idle in this situation?

Seriously this has probably been best first found playoff series since the Warriors beat the Mavs in the first round. Its certainly been the best Pacers first round series. I feel very fortunate to be able to witness these games in person. I can say years from now that I witnessed the spark that signaled the comeback of this franchise.

Slick Pinkham
04-24-2011, 05:49 PM
Nothing personal but there was no respect either from the Bull players or their fans.

On the contrary I think that the Bulls players and coaches realize that this has been no walk in the park and have no reason to think it gets different on Tuesday.

"They're playing good defense," Bulls head coach Tom Thibodeau said. "You have to give them credit. We have to read. You have to hit the first open man. When you do that, the ball moves. We're trying to thread the needle and you can't thread the needle. You have to hit the first open man."

"They're playing hard," Luol Deng said of the Pacers. "They're playing with a lot of intensity. I thought today they played like a team that didn't want to get swept in the first half. They played hard. They played way harder than us..

"I think it's taking us out of what we want to do, for sure," Bulls guard Kyle Korver said of the Pacers' physicality.

"We ran a play for D. [Rose] and tried to get Kyle open and tried to get Lu open," Boozer said. "They did a good job on our 3-point shooters. I just happened to be the one that was open in the corner, tried to get it up and give it a chance, I thought it had a chance but it was a little short."

"There's three or four different (ways) to get a three," Thibodeau added. "We didn't get a good look ... they defended it well."

"Listen, at the end of the day, this is the NBA, this is the playoffs," Bulls forward Carlos Boozer said. "The team that's supposed to win, wins. You guys have been around enough to know that."

speakout4
04-24-2011, 06:06 PM
On the contrary I think that the Bulls players and coaches realize that this has been no walk in the park and have no reason to think it gets different on Tuesday.

"They're playing good defense," Bulls head coach Tom Thibodeau said. "You have to give them credit. We have to read. You have to hit the first open man. When you do that, the ball moves. We're trying to thread the needle and you can't thread the needle. You have to hit the first open man."

"They're playing hard," Luol Deng said of the Pacers. "They're playing with a lot of intensity. I thought today they played like a team that didn't want to get swept in the first half. They played hard. They played way harder than us..

"I think it's taking us out of what we want to do, for sure," Bulls guard Kyle Korver said of the Pacers' physicality.

"We ran a play for D. [Rose] and tried to get Kyle open and tried to get Lu open," Boozer said. "They did a good job on our 3-point shooters. I just happened to be the one that was open in the corner, tried to get it up and give it a chance, I thought it had a chance but it was a little short."

"There's three or four different (ways) to get a three," Thibodeau added. "We didn't get a good look ... they defended it well."

"Listen, at the end of the day, this is the NBA, this is the playoffs," Bulls forward Carlos Boozer said. "The team that's supposed to win, wins. You guys have been around enough to know that."
Are your quotes from yesterday or before yesterday as Boozer had not much good to say about the pacers?

Slick Pinkham
04-24-2011, 06:28 PM
postgame quotes after game 4

Haywoode Workman
04-24-2011, 06:50 PM
if the pacers force a game 6, I swear to the giant magical bunny that I will pawn my ps3 to make it to conseco.

ndcoltsnpacers
04-24-2011, 06:58 PM
if the pacers force a game 6, I swear to the giant magical bunny that I will pawn my ps3 to make it to conseco.

I've got my tickets, I really want to use them.

Haywoode Workman
04-24-2011, 07:19 PM
I've got my tickets, I really want to use them.

i assume you get a refund if you don't right?

pacerDU
04-24-2011, 09:43 PM
Seriously this has probably been best first found playoff series since the Warriors beat the Mavs in the first round.

That's the exact series I was thinking of when people use the "haven't been good for a while" reason to not show up to games. The Warriors got an AMAZING crowd to those games and they've been bad since... forever.

Isn't only going to games when a team is good the pure definition of a bandwagon fan? I mean Sacramento's fans still show up and they're possibly about to move to another city.

As UB said, there are obviously 18,000+ people in Indianapolis who are gainfully employed and could have shown up. I was thoroughly disappointed with the turn-out at Conseco.

Now you might feel I have no right to criticize being that I don't live in Indiana and wasn't there. That's fine, but I sure as hell would've been there if I was an Indiana resident. I've flown from Australia (where I'm from) specifically to see the Pacers. I've seen games at both MSA and CFH, so if I can do that people living just around the corner can get to a playoff game.

PacersPride
04-24-2011, 10:08 PM
what you are saying might hold some weight if I was complaining about all Pacers fans not being there. Obviously I am only looking for 18,135 Pacers fans to be there. and I am sure there are at least 18,135 Pacers fans who hve a job and who can afford the cost of the ticket and the cost of gas to get to the game. I'm sure there are 10X - 15X times that number. No, about 10,000 Pacers fans choose not to attend the game Saturday.

so if there are Pacers fans who could not make the game because they are unemployed and can't afford the ticket and the cost to drive to the game, I give them a pass.

my guess and kravitz eluded too it.. this is a bargain for diehard chicago fans too come too a game here.. or even bulls fans who cannot get seats in chicago.

when they offer 3x or maybe even up too 10x the price of the ticket too pacer fans with tix.. they take it.

if i paid 80 bucks for two seats at club level and a bulls fan offers me 350 a piece or something like that.. i would have too consider also.

money talks.. esp in times like these. i love the pacers, and if i could afford it i would sit on the baseline every game, but its not reasonable for me too do so.

im using this as a general illustration overall as too why many pacer fans likely sold their seats.

$400 dollars gives kids food and clothers and that is acceptable in my opinion.

Go Pacers!!!

TheDon
04-24-2011, 10:13 PM
I think the reason a lot of the crowd from Thursday the reason they didn't show up on Saturday other than what Grace had said already is because after the game Thursday it took a lot of willpower to not a pop a few of those idiots in the mouth that felt the need to get in your face. It was very demoralizing to lose yet another close game and have those people celebrate like they had just won the NBA Finals. I wanted to go the game Saturday but job kept me from attending.

All that aside it sure is nice to finally be in the playoffs regardless of what is happening, although what is happening makes me very proud to be a fan of this team. The "casual fans" of this team will not be able to appreciate this team like many of us on this board will be able to with what has transpired over the past 5 years and sticking through every frustration. If we lose on Tuesday this still will have been the most fun i've had in a long time and hope for no lockout.

captainC
04-24-2011, 10:17 PM
Editors must be off for Easter...

Actually, I read that line as a pun on words. Most of his article referred to the fact that it was almost like a Chicago home game, and another game in CFH might seem like its in Chicago.

I think that was how he intended to sound, even though I would have written something.

Unclebuck
04-24-2011, 10:25 PM
my guess and kravitz eluded too it.. this is a bargain for diehard chicago fans too come too a game here.. or even bulls fans who cannot get seats in chicago.

when they offer 3x or maybe even up too 10x the price of the ticket too pacer fans with tix.. they take it.

if i paid 80 bucks for two seats at club level and a bulls fan offers me 350 a piece or something like that.. i would have too consider also.

money talks.. esp in times like these. i love the pacers, and if i could afford it i would sit on the baseline every game, but its not reasonable for me too do so.

im using this as a general illustration overall as too why many pacer fans likely sold their seats.

$400 dollars gives kids food and clothers and that is acceptable in my opinion.

Go Pacers!!!


OK, but how do Pacers fans know what they could sell the tickets for? They must have decided to at the very least "look into it". I have no idea what I could sell my tickets for, because I didn't consider selling.

Peck
04-24-2011, 10:33 PM
I know for a fact the traitors who set behind me and in front of me are season ticket holders and sold their tickets online to the Bulls fans. Believe me whether it be Thursday or next pre-season I will give them an earful.

El Pacero
04-24-2011, 10:45 PM
This is interesting, because I originally dismissed the fact that a lot of Pacers STH or even fans sold their tickets to Bulls fans. There were a lot of ebay auctions now that I think about it.

I still think this is more due to Bulls fans buying tickets from ticketmaster.com before the Thursday game... basically right when they were allowed to buy them. That's why I think we saw large groups together. They are known to travel and we are known for bad attendance right now. And the Indy-only presale wasn't widely known about.

It was so bad, I see this as a way to spin it and get Indy fair weather fans mad about the invasion in our Indy house during solid playoff play and the first home playoff win in five years.

mattie
04-25-2011, 04:30 AM
To the people of Central Indiana who sat at home and watched these 4 games.

Are you not entertained? What more do you want? How can you sit idle in this situation?

Seriously this has probably been best first found playoff series since the Warriors beat the Mavs in the first round. Its certainly been the best Pacers first round series. I feel very fortunate to be able to witness these games in person. I can say years from now that I witnessed the spark that signaled the comeback of this franchise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqJFIJ5lLs

Sounds like the Pacers need to win the crowd!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H4e9eRUZZY

And then they'll be cheering!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MThRP7jQivI&feature=related

CableKC
04-25-2011, 01:08 PM
I agree with Fusion. It was a disgrace. I don't care what the reasons were, it was embarassing and disgusting. No reason is valid IMO. And just to be clear, I am not mad at the bulls fans, I am mad at the Pacers fans. Pacers fans had at least every opportunity to get the tickets that ended up in the hands of Bulls fans.
This....+1000.

Kravitz does bring up a good point...it's hard to root for a Team that was irrelevant up until 2 months ago and expect people to come out of the woodworks.

But let's just say when there was a greater chance that someone like myself ( who lives in San Jose, California and would have to spend $$$ and fly out to Indy...which was something that I was considering ) would have purchased tickets to go see Game 3 and 4 over someone who physically lives in Indiana....it tells you something.

I agree that IF the Pacers are able to pull off a Game 6....which is not impossible but unlikely....then I can see more local Indy fans come out to support the Team as bandwagoners....which sucks...but is better than nothing.

PacersPride
04-25-2011, 01:22 PM
OK, but how do Pacers fans know what they could sell the tickets for? They must have decided to at the very least "look into it". I have no idea what I could sell my tickets for, because I didn't consider selling.

thats all good and well but im speaking more on the big picture. my hunch is after thursdays loss more pacer fans were willing to sell their tickets or at least see what the going rate was.

sports is as much a business as it is a game anymore. owners wanna lockout, players want more money.. why should fans be held too a different standard.

im a hardcore pacer fan and unless i really needed the $ i would nvr consider selling. again, my guess is some folks who had no intentions of going to the game bought tickets with the specific goal in mind of selling them for a profit.

if pacer fans were as willing too pay as much for tix as bulls fan, then we would not have had a crowd predominantly from chicago.

simply my opinion from an outsiders perspective. if indy won game 3 i woulda expected about 75-25 pacer fans, i knew if they lost it woudl be closer too 50-50 and it was. if pacers win tuesday, expect it too be 80-20 again for game 6, and if i can get a ticket for face value i will be there.

to answer your question.. its likely not "pacer fans," but scalpers whose only intention is profit, and it doesnt matter if its bulls or pacers fans that buy the tix but who is willing too pay the most.

right now bulls fans are willing too pay more.

Peck
04-25-2011, 01:22 PM
This....+1000.

Kravitz does bring up a good point...it's hard to root for a Team that was irrelevant up until 2 months ago and expect people to come out of the woodworks.

But let's just say when there was a greater chance that someone like myself ( who lives in San Jose, California and would have to spend $$$ and fly out to Indy...which was something that I was considering ) would have purchased tickets to go see Game 3 and 4 over someone who physically lives in Indiana....it tells you something.

I agree that IF the Pacers are able to pull off a Game 6....which is not impossible but unlikely....then I can see more local Indy fans come out to support the Team as bandwagoners....which sucks...but is better than nothing.

In truth that is the moral of the story for my Mother in-law post. In other words, not that the media is totally at fault, but unless you have been closely following the series or are a fan to begin with the local tv media here has not been giving the Pacers to much credit for anything. Outside the metro area the smaller station news casts might show a highlight but in all likelyhood just will say the score at the end of the show.

That's why my wife's family who live no more than 60 miles northwest of Indianapolis had no idea that the team was actually doing well.

Even the metro stations are sometimes half and half.

I watched fox 59 overtime with Mike Wells and the studio guy was great, Mike Wells was more complimentry of the Pacers than I ever remember seeing him be (which btw I'm fine with, it's not his job to be a rah-rah guy IMO) but the female reporter I swear was from Fox sports Chicago. Every single player she spoke with she insinuated that Derrick Rose's ankle fracture highly affected the outcome of the game. (Yes I said ankle fracture because the weight & gravity she was placing on his injury surely it had to be an open tibia & fibula fracture that he held in place with duct tape till it could be reset after the game)

In other words my greatest fear is that this may be one of the greatest Pacer playoff efforts ever only being seen in Indiana by people who were going to watch it no matter the outcome anyway.

BillS
04-25-2011, 01:36 PM
(Yes I said ankle fracture because the weight & gravity she was placing on his injury surely it had to be an open tibia & fibula fracture that he held in place with duct tape till it could be reset after the game)

Pshaw. No, Derick bit down on a bullet and took a rusty screwdriver and a leftover crowbar and set those bones himself, keeping them in place with a cast made of his own indomitable will.

The boot is merely in place to keep the additional awesomeness from his perfectly executed medical procedure from leaking out and tripping fans, reporters, servants, or sycophants.

naptownmenace
04-25-2011, 01:39 PM
That's definitely a valid excuse for some, but it's not like the entire metro area is unemployed. The number 1 reason for people not going yesterday has to be: "the series was over after Thursday night so I'm not spending my Saturday watching something that's already over."

I agree. That had to be a lot of people's thinking. Still Indiana folks who call themselves basketball fans have been very disappointing throughout the playoffs. The Pacers have been getting a lot of love and respect from the National media but the casual fans in Indy seem to be oblivious.

We went to Applebee's after the game and several people asked us if the Pacers won. That obviously meant that they didn't even bother to watch the game on TV. So not only are people not supporting the team by going to the games, they don't really care to even watch them on TV. How is that even possible when they are in the playoffs and playing against a team with the potential league MVP?

Indy has always been a fair weather sports town so you really can't even use the current economy situation as an excuse. The majority of Hoosiers will support the Pacers and Colts only when they are one of the top teams in their leagues and not a moment sooner. I felt that way back in the 80's and being at game 4 after making the 2 hour drive from Cincy, I feel even stronger about that.

joeyd
04-25-2011, 03:11 PM
This is interesting, because I originally dismissed the fact that a lot of Pacers STH or even fans sold their tickets to Bulls fans. There were a lot of ebay auctions now that I think about it.

I still think this is more due to Bulls fans buying tickets from ticketmaster.com before the Thursday game... basically right when they were allowed to buy them. That's why I think we saw large groups together. They are known to travel and we are known for bad attendance right now. And the Indy-only presale wasn't widely known about.

It was so bad, I see this as a way to spin it and get Indy fair weather fans mad about the invasion in our Indy house during solid playoff play and the first home playoff win in five years.

Most of the Bulls fans I spoke to actually got their tix from Ticketmaster. There were only about 800 tickets available on StubHub after tix went on sale; there were about 8000 Bulls fans in attendance. Even if scalped tix were available through other outlets like e-bay, I think the number of scalped tix making their way into Bulls hands were only a drop in the bucket. I'm guessing that some scalped tix on StubHub were actually purchased by deep-pocketed Pacers fans that waited too long to get them through Ticketmaster.

P.S. to EP: I checked for that Bender bobblehead that I think you wanted; I could not find it, so I think I pitched it during the last round of spring cleaning. Sorry! I was going to surprise you at Game 4.

Unclebuck
04-25-2011, 04:13 PM
I don't think the game #3 loss had anything to do with the number of Bulls fans, because 99% of the game #4 tickets were sold prior to game #3. Sure some pacers fans sold their tickets to a seconbdary source or maybe directly to Bulls fans, but if that was 1,000, i would be shocked.

Nope most of the Bulls fans purchased their tickets from ticketmaster, same place pacers fans could have purchased them

grace
04-25-2011, 06:30 PM
I don't think the game #3 loss had anything to do with the number of Bulls fans, because 99% of the game #4 tickets were sold prior to game #3. Sure some pacers fans sold their tickets to a seconbdary source or maybe directly to Bulls fans, but if that was 1,000, i would be shocked.

Nope most of the Bulls fans purchased their tickets from ticketmaster, same place pacers fans could have purchased them

Look at it from a casual fan's perspective. The Pacers finished 8 games under .500. They're playing a team that was 25 games better than them during the regular season. Why pay to watch the Pacers get their :buttkick: when you can stay at home at watch it on TV for free?

Roaming Gnome
04-25-2011, 06:38 PM
How about being unemployed for over a year? Can't afford the ticket and the $4/gallon gas to get to the game if you don't have a paycheck coming in.

Grace... I understand your point if Indianapolis was the size of Fort Wayne where an area of 350,000 was supporting the team. Any hiccup would make an adverse effect in attendance. However when you have a base that will gladly pay 4X's as much to be one of 65,000 for the place 3 blocks down and another 10,000 that will pay $150 annually to stay on a "waiting list" to be one of the 65,000.

Sure makes a lot of the excuses sound rather thin to me!

grace
04-25-2011, 06:45 PM
Grace... I understand your point if Indianapolis was the size of Fort Wayne where an area of 350,000 was supporting the team. Any hiccup would make an adverse effect in attendance. However when you have a base of that will gladly pay to be one of 65,000 that will pay 4X's as much for the place 3 blocks down and another 10,000 that will pay $150 annually to stay on a "waiting list" to be one of the 65,000. Sure makes a lot of the excuses sound rather thin to me!

In ten years if the Colts are in the same boat that the Pacers are in now I'd say the same thing. However, I'd be more inclined to go to the Colts game because I happen to like football more than basketball.

Roaming Gnome
04-25-2011, 06:52 PM
In ten years if the Colts are in the same boat that the Pacers are in now I'd say the same thing. However, I'd be more inclined to go to the Colts game because I happen to like football more than basketball.

At least saying x amount of people just don't give a flying **** about the Pacers is a lot more honest then making the economy an excuses for this fanbase!