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View Full Version : The Reason We are Down 0-3



Midcoasted
04-22-2011, 03:23 PM
We are asking our point gaurd to match up with their shooting gaurd. It has cost us three games I think. If I can pinpoint it to anything it has to be this. To bad Lance had to mess everything up, because he was the only point gaurd we had big enough to guard Rose, and that would have allowed us to leave Paul George on Korver or Brewer and not Collison or Price sprinting late after the shooter about 6 inches to short to affect the shot.

Simple and plain, we need a bigger point gaurd if putting Paul George on Rose will ever work. They are exploiting us at the SG spot when we are on defense and the Bulls have leaned on it to win. Finally last night Frank did a situational substitution. So either Lance has a miraculous turnaround in 24 hours (he won't), or we get exploited by their SG again.

Actually I think just leaving Collison to gaurd Rose may have been the better option. I'd rather have Paul George playing help defense on Rose and if he has to sprint back to his shooter he has like 11 more inches in wing span to affect the shot.

Will we let Collison and Price gaurd Rose next game or are we going to live and die by this strategy?

pacer4ever
04-22-2011, 03:29 PM
dude DC on Drose we would have been blown out in the first 3gms. We are down 3-0 because we dont have a closer it is that simple. Our gameplan has been solid.

mattie
04-22-2011, 03:30 PM
Rose would score 97 points a game on DC. This is a fact.

Scot Pollard
04-22-2011, 03:31 PM
We need Eric Gordon in a Pacers uniform.

ilive4sports
04-22-2011, 03:48 PM
We are down 0-3 because we can't keep them off the offensive glass, get little production from anyone not named Danny Granger, can't execute down the stretch, and are a young and inexperienced team. Playing DC on Rose is a terrible idea. I much rather him chasing whatever SG is in the game.

Hicks
04-22-2011, 04:01 PM
Teams always have deficiencies. We have one (or two) deficiencies too many. Here's hoping we make up for those in the coming year. I'm hoping at least one good move (trade or FA) plus the improvement of our core will be enough.

troyc11a
04-22-2011, 04:09 PM
We need Eric Gordon in a Pacers uniform.

I will stick with Paul George. Bigger, stronger, more athletic, and plays better "D". Not to mention he will be millions cheaper!

troyc11a
04-22-2011, 04:11 PM
We are asking our point gaurd to match up with their shooting gaurd. It has cost us three games I think. If I can pinpoint it to anything it has to be this. To bad Lance had to mess everything up, because he was the only point gaurd we had big enough to guard Rose, and that would have allowed us to leave Paul George on Korver or Brewer and not Collison or Price sprinting late after the shooter about 6 inches to short to affect the shot.

Simple and plain, we need a bigger point gaurd if putting Paul George on Rose will ever work. They are exploiting us at the SG spot when we are on defense and the Bulls have leaned on it to win. Finally last night Frank did a situational substitution. So either Lance has a miraculous turnaround in 24 hours (he won't), or we get exploited by their SG again.

Actually I think just leaving Collison to gaurd Rose may have been the better option. I'd rather have Paul George playing help defense on Rose and if he has to sprint back to his shooter he has like 11 more inches in wing span to affect the shot.

Will we let Collison and Price gaurd Rose next game or are we going to live and die by this strategy?

You are right on one thing. We really do need a bigger point guard if we are ever going to make a serious run. Guys in the NBA are just bigger and stronger today then they were 10-20 years ago.

MrHale
04-22-2011, 04:43 PM
hmm did u even watch the games? George on rose obviously best option and he's been doin really good on him, id rather contain rose and let korver have better shots then let rose destroy collison with ease...

IndyPacer
04-22-2011, 04:44 PM
We are asking our point gaurd to match up with their shooting gaurd. It has cost us three games I think. If I can pinpoint it to anything it has to be this. To bad Lance had to mess everything up, because he was the only point gaurd we had big enough to guard Rose, and that would have allowed us to leave Paul George on Korver or Brewer and not Collison or Price sprinting late after the shooter about 6 inches to short to affect the shot.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZVZG4CS6kXQ/TXTkP0Q5xNI/AAAAAAAAI-M/1A6FNmtEz3Q/s1600/lil_jon_dave_chappelle_l_461c9a590dec5.jpg

You can't be serious. Collison would have been blown into the weeds trying to guard D. Rose. He can't do it. And Born Ready? Stephenson would still be looking around for Rose long after the play was over while everyone else was heading back to the other end of the court. No way could he keep up with Rose.

naptownmenace
04-22-2011, 04:50 PM
They held DRose to 23 points on 4-18 shooting and forced him to turn the ball over 5 times. They also held him to 2 assists. The defense on Rose was the best it's been all series last night.

If Hansbrough and Hibbert had shot better than a combined 6-24 the Pacers would have won. That is the real reason the Pacers are down 0-3.

NuffSaid
04-22-2011, 05:32 PM
I was hoping Vogel would have let Dahntey play extended minutes, but he pulled him at a time when he was doing quite well. The way I see it, the Pacers' problem is that they haven't used the one player they have who can probe the defense, get inside, create shots for himself and finish at the rim AND is not afraid of the contact.

Collison can do it, but I think he fears the contact. TJ Ford can do it, but Vogel seems reluctant to use him except when either our primary or secondary PG gets hurt. BRush can do it, but he's been on the floor more for his perimeter shooting or 1-on-1 defense and even that's been suspect against bigger Shooting Guards. Granger and Dunleavy can do it, but only when either has a clear-out by the Bigs (Granger) or is able to come off baseline screens or PnR plays (Dunleavy).

The only player who can do this on his own and is NOT affraid of the contact is Dahntey Jones. If you look at game footage of each game in this series, what you'll find is in that final 3 minutes - CRUNCH TIME - the Bulls put the ball in DRose's hands and lets him facilitate. More often than not, he's going to run clock and drive to the basket. The Pacers know it's coming. It's a clearout! Rose sits out there...dribble...dribble...dribble...waiting...bi dding his time...picking his moment. And like all PG/SGs, he knows the defense will either try to take him 1-on-1 or the interior defense will converge on him. Defenders then have to decide, "Do I stay with my man out on the wing or do I collapse on DRose and hope to either draw the foul and he misses or I get the steal." The 3rd worse thing that could happen is Rose kicks the ball out to the wing-man (Kover or Deng) and they knock down the open 3PA. The best case, he misses the shot and doesn't get fouled. But what ultimately happens is he either gets the And1 or he draws the foul and still gets to the free throw line. That, ladies and gentlemen, is playing "smarter, not harder" and few NBA players understand this or are gifted enough to do it well.

Dahntey Jones is the only player on this team who isn't affraid to drive the lanes, get inside the defense, and finish at the rim. Don't get me wrong. Collison and TJ Ford both can do it, but Dahntey is fearless about it and has shown he can do it consistently. It's unfortunately that coach Vogel, who lamented Dahntey's skills once he became interim head coach, hasn't taken advantage of what this player has to offer more often. My hope is that he recognizes this come Saturday (or someone out their in PacerLand who is connected with management reads this and goes, "Hmmmm...there might be something to this." :D )

Personal Note: I wasn't too high on Dahntey coming into the season, but I've warmed to him since Vogel took over. He's a better two-sided player than I thought.

Really?
04-22-2011, 05:32 PM
To add what Pacer4ever said we also need experience, but yes I thin closer would have helped out a lot, experience would have helped us from making some of the silly mistakes that we made.

Still glad that we got to the playoffs this year instead of being in the Lottery though.

Go Pacers

xBulletproof
04-22-2011, 08:12 PM
We are down 0-3 because Rose is the best player on either team.

They have Rose getting to the rim at the end of games and we have Granger chucking contested jump shots. Pretty simple.

DemonHunter1105
04-22-2011, 08:28 PM
I think the only positions you can reasonably complain about this series is C and PF. Roy has been bad, and when he makes a bucket they call a phantom O-foul call. Tyler was good game 1 but he REALLY needs to develop some kind of low post move besides awkwardness. Danny has been good in my opinion. DC has been tough as nails. PG may be shooting like crap but his defense is amazing and he is super young.

While we don't have a closer, I think we proved we don't need one that bad once this team reaches its peak. If we had any production game 2/3 from Roy and Tyler, even Rose wouldn't have been able to save them.

I find it hilarious that Bulls' fans are celebrating like they won the championship already when they can barely beat the only team in the playoffs with a losing record and no superstar whatsoever. The fact they have the MVP makes it even better.

Here is to hoping they get blown off the map my Miami/Boston/Orlando down the road.

Gold
04-22-2011, 08:36 PM
Bulls didn't get past 90 points yesterday. There is nothing wrong with our defensive strategy, we need to find ways to score more points down the stretch. That's it.

Infinite MAN_force
04-22-2011, 08:39 PM
The reason we are down 0-3 is rebounding. Plain and simple. They are absolutely killing us with second chance points.

I have wavered on this issue from time to time, but this team needs a front court upgrade like nobodies business. If we had a guy like Josh Smith out there it would change the complexion of this series immensely.

Infinite MAN_force
04-22-2011, 08:44 PM
We are down 0-3 because Rose is the best player on either team.

They have Rose getting to the rim at the end of games and we have Granger chucking contested jump shots. Pretty simple.

Without Granger we would have been blown out every single game.

Granger is our leading scorer shooting 50% from the field. He does this fighting constant double teams and taking all the defensive attention of the other team.

Granger is not the problem, his teammates need to step up. We don't have another consistent scoring option (outside of maybe Collison) on the Team. It is not his fault that he is forced to try to create offense when its not his strong suit, the fact of the matter is he is still our best scoring option even when he forces it.

IndyHoya
04-22-2011, 08:48 PM
Without Granger we would have been blown out every single game.

Granger is our leading scorer shooting 50% from the field. He does this fighting constant double teams and taking all the defensive attention of the other team.

Granger is not the problem, his teammates need to step up. We don't have another consistent scoring option (outside of maybe Collison) on the Team. It is not his fault that he is forced to try to create offense when its not his strong suit, the fact of the matter is he is still our best scoring option even when he forces it.

True. If we get a 14 point night out of Roy or Tyler, we win.

IndyPacer
04-22-2011, 08:51 PM
I think the only positions you can reasonably complain about this series is C and PF. Roy has been bad, and when he makes a bucket they call a phantom O-foul call. Tyler was good game 1 but he REALLY needs to develop some kind of low post move besides awkwardness. Danny has been good in my opinion. DC has been tough as nails. PG may be shooting like crap but his defense is amazing and he is super young.

Roy has disappointed most, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he'll work on some of this given he's never faced playoffs competition.

No need for any benefit of the doubt needed for Hansbrough. I KNOW he'll work this summer to get better. I think the expectations have been a bit unfair around here to be honest. He's practically a rookie starting in the playoffs playing Boozer. I expected him to struggle. Look where most PF rookies are right now. Was he expected to be a superstar in this series? Last season many here speculated he'd never play another NBA game. Look where he's at now. I'm sure he'll address many of his weakness over time.

I agree that the perimeter guys have been really good. George really can be a legitimate star if he maintains his defensive intensity and catches up on offense. Collison will get better. The Bulls are a particularly tough matchup for him (guard D. Rose or the SG; bad news for him), but he's more than hung in there.

IndyHoya
04-22-2011, 08:56 PM
Roy has disappointed most, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he'll work on some of this given he's never faced playoffs competition.

No need for any benefit of the doubt needed for Hansbrough. I KNOW he'll work this summer to get better. I think the expectations have been a bit unfair around here to be honest. He's practically a rookie starting in the playoffs playing Boozer. I expected him to struggle. Look where most PF rookies are right now. Was he expected to be a superstar in this series? Last season many here speculated he'd never play another NBA game. Look where he's at now. I'm sure he'll address many of his weakness over time.

I agree that the perimeter guys have been really good. George really can be a legitimate star if he maintains his defensive intensity and catches up on offense. Collison will get better. The Bulls are a particularly tough matchup for him (guard D. Rose or the SG; bad news for him), but he's more than hung in there.

Roy and Tyler have played pretty good defense too. Rebounding's been lopsided due to all Rose's penetration, but we've been competitive despite the Bulls edge there. We've also taken good care of the ball, for the most part, against what's supposed to be the best defense in the league.

We get a few breaks, we could beat a deflated Bulls team on Saturday. We'll see.

The Jackson shimmy
04-22-2011, 09:00 PM
We are asking our point gaurd to match up with their shooting gaurd. It has cost us three games I think. If I can pinpoint it to anything it has to be this. To bad Lance had to mess everything up, because he was the only point gaurd we had big enough to guard Rose, and that would have allowed us to leave Paul George on Korver or Brewer and not Collison or Price sprinting late after the shooter about 6 inches to short to affect the shot.

Simple and plain, we need a bigger point gaurd if putting Paul George on Rose will ever work. They are exploiting us at the SG spot when we are on defense and the Bulls have leaned on it to win. Finally last night Frank did a situational substitution. So either Lance has a miraculous turnaround in 24 hours (he won't), or we get exploited by their SG again.

Actually I think just leaving Collison to gaurd Rose may have been the better option. I'd rather have Paul George playing help defense on Rose and if he has to sprint back to his shooter he has like 11 more inches in wing span to affect the shot.

Will we let Collison and Price gaurd Rose next game or are we going to live and die by this strategy?


Lance ? On Rose ?

There is no universe, solar system or planet within which or on which
Stephenson has any prayer whatsover of successfully guarding Derrick
Rose.

Period !

xBulletproof
04-22-2011, 10:01 PM
Without Granger we would have been blown out every single game.

Granger is our leading scorer shooting 50% from the field. He does this fighting constant double teams and taking all the defensive attention of the other team.

Granger is not the problem, his teammates need to step up. We don't have another consistent scoring option (outside of maybe Collison) on the Team. It is not his fault that he is forced to try to create offense when its not his strong suit, the fact of the matter is he is still our best scoring option even when he forces it.

Granger isn't fighting double teams or all of the attention until the end of the game, which is when he can't score. Granger isn't our best scoring option when he forces it, at all. Case in point is the play last game when they were absolutely determined to get Granger a look in the last 20 seconds. He got the ball, gave it up, got it back and then chucked it. He was never comfortable or even had a chance to make that shot. It was pathetic looking.

In fact, when Granger is forced to score, just about any other option is a better option.

vnzla81
04-22-2011, 10:58 PM
Granger isn't fighting double teams or all of the attention until the end of the game, which is when he can't score. Granger isn't our best scoring option when he forces it, at all. Case in point is the play last game when they were absolutely determined to get Granger a look in the last 20 seconds. He got the ball, gave it up, got it back and then chucked it. He was never comfortable or even had a chance to make that shot. It was pathetic looking.

In fact, when Granger is forced to score, just about any other option is a better option.

:confused: Are we agreeing in something now? yeah I agree Danny was forcing some crazy shots yesterday, there was one fadeway 3 that he had no business shooting.

CableKC
04-22-2011, 11:43 PM
Yes, having DC/AJ defending Bogans or Korver is one of the reasons why we are down by 3.....but it's not the main reason.

picasso
04-23-2011, 12:20 AM
LoL. We are down 0-3 because we are a very young and raw team. Did you really expect that we knock out the number ONE SEED in the EAST?


We are giving them trouble and exposing them, something many many teams have not been able to do. If the Bulls fall out the playoffs! it would be because we layed out the blue print on how to beat them..

We don't have a closer?? what is this BS? If Danny would have someone to help him with 18-17 points then we will be 2-1. We don't have sufficient fire power. Plus we are playing the one of the if not the best Defensive teams in the NBA. Danny Granger isn't Jordan, he's not going to go off for 63 points But he will keep us in striking distance, but even a young Jordan scoring all those point's didn't take the Bulls very far. He needs that other guy, Jordan needed Pippen to help him pick up some of his slack. No one in this team can pick up Dannys slack. Danny has been our consistent scorer. Who defends him? Luol Deng whose a pretty legit defender. I know because he gives Lebron a hand full.


Derrick Rose as a rookie got beat in boston. Second year by Cleveland. It's a process guys. Got to learn how to walk before we start running. Paul George and his work ethic are going to lead us very far in the future. We are hungry and are showing that we can hang. We need more seasoning before we demand the stars and moon from this team.

Just enjoy the ride while it's here. I have enjoyed this series so much. Derrick Rose is ridiculous and the MVP of the league. It's taking a insane amount of energy from him. He looked more exhausted and out his rhythm game 3. Just a few more years and we will be a legit team.

/end rant.

xBulletproof
04-23-2011, 04:50 PM
:confused: Are we agreeing in something now? yeah I agree Danny was forcing some crazy shots yesterday, there was one fadeway 3 that he had no business shooting.

Maybe I need to think this through again. :)

Granger is a very good scorer when he's part of a whole, even if it's a big part he's playing. Which is what happens throughout the most of a game. However when he's asked to do it all himself, like at the end of a game ... it doesn't work. That's the difference between a "Batman" and a "Robin".

Eh. Thought it through again, still ended up with the same conclusion.