PDA

View Full Version : OT: Who is your favorite active NBA player that is NOT a Pacer?



Kemo
04-20-2011, 12:29 AM
Who is your favorite active NBA player that is NOT a Pacer?

... and if you want to, explain why


I figured this could be a fun thread , and interesting to see what everyone's responses are.



My favorite player currently in the NBA that isn't a Pacer would have to be Dirk Nowitzki..
I have thoroughly enjoyed watching him since he came into the NBA..

For 1 ,IMO he plays the "right way" .. He is a very likable guy , a good teammate..
As far as his skills, he is just plain awesome.. He can do it all.. AND at 7 foot tall..
He is probably one of the top 3 guys in the NBA , that you just can't make a gameplan for.. He can post up , put in on the floor, hit shots from anywhere..
I believe he is the closest the NBA has seen to Larry Legend thus far .. sans playoff success .. Other than the Pacers, I am rooting for the Mavs to win it all..







.

itscaleb
04-20-2011, 12:32 AM
Kobe Bryant. Because I live in LA and thats probably the 2nd team I support behind the pacers, some of the shots he hits just boggle my mind.

I Love P
04-20-2011, 12:32 AM
Monta Ellis

KingGeorge
04-20-2011, 12:33 AM
Al Harrington.

I loved him here when he was a Pacer.

imbtyler
04-20-2011, 12:40 AM
I actually am a huge fan of Derrick Rose. Not necessarily bandwagon, I've liked him since his RotY. I also really like Blake Griffin, as do most. Between him, John Wall, and Paul George, I'm really interested to see the development of the rookies over the next few years.

TheDon
04-20-2011, 12:42 AM
Steve Nash

I don't really care for his defense but he makes some pretty nifty passes I think it's sad he'll likely never win an NBA championship.

player I wish we had?

Russel Westbrook

Constellations
04-20-2011, 12:47 AM
This question is so tough. If I have to say absolute favorite, I'd have to say Steve Nash. But I don't like the question so here goes my top 5, lol.

1. Steve Nash
2. Kevin Durant
3. Kevin Love
4. Eric Gordon
5. Russell Westbrook

BAM!

King Tuts Tomb
04-20-2011, 12:47 AM
LeBron, DeMarcus Cousins, Jason Terry and Jamal Crawford.

Kemo
04-20-2011, 12:52 AM
Ya, Steve Nash is definitely one of my favorites as well..

Sookie
04-20-2011, 01:12 AM
Manu Ginobili

Until I saw Manu play in the Olympics, I was pretty much strictly a Uconn fan, I actually wasn't even that interested in men's basketball.

But Manu..man...he's so different than the players I typically watch. Before I got into basketball, I was into ballet, gymnastics, figure skating (typical girl stuff). When I started watching the women's team, I tended to be drawn to the perfectionist type of players, neat tidy and flawless. In fact, some of the women's teams I watched early on, was like watching Ballet..once again..the word flawless comes to mind.

But Manu...Manu is just like a storm on the court. He's a hazard, and he's awkward..and yet makes some of the most out standing plays. He's really my favorite men's player, period.

Second would be Kobe, third would probably be Nash. All my guys are getting old..

Eleazar
04-20-2011, 01:31 AM
Eric Gordon, I'm a sucker for hometown players, and guys I have personally played against. Other than that though I would say Durant.

cdash
04-20-2011, 01:51 AM
Nash. He's so fun to watch and he is a funny, creative guy off the court. Great role model.

Haywoode Workman
04-20-2011, 02:06 AM
deron williams, russel westbrook, nash, manu, jermaine o'neal

Day-V
04-20-2011, 02:10 AM
Don't have one.

ilive4sports
04-20-2011, 02:14 AM
Well if former Pacers count, its JO. Loved him when he was here and wish it would have worked out better. Wouldn't mind seeing him retire as a Pacers, you know one of those one day contract situations.

Of non Pacers, I will say Blake Griffin. Seeing him in person was awesome. I know I will get hate for this, but I actually like LeBron James. Quite frankly I didn't think The Decision was the worst thing that ever happened like people act it was (and as a journalism student I'm more pissed at ESPN/Jim Grey for doing it...). But I love watching the guy play. He is incredibly gifted. A man that size isn't supposed to be that fast or jump like that. Crazy thing is he only gets better.

BornReady
04-20-2011, 02:14 AM
Kevin Durant

Richard_Skull
04-20-2011, 02:22 AM
As for players I root for (when not playing the Pacers ofc)
1: Tim Duncan
2: Nash
3: Dirk
4: Wade
5: LeBron (used to be 2, but, well... he's kinda... well... It's hard to explain)
6: Paul Pierce (used to be higher on him, but i think KG's personality has rubbed off on him and I hate KG)

Oddly, the only jersey I don't have is Timmy's.

Up and comers may include, Klove, BGriff, EJ.

And sadly, I still have a soft spot for Ron Ron.

Psyren
04-20-2011, 02:25 AM
1. Kevin Durant
2. Chris Paul
3. Manu
4. D Wade
5. LeBron James (As ilive4sports said, the guy is just plain ridiculous. I didn't like the decision and how he did it, but all that stuff aside I love the guy as a player)

birdsandbats
04-20-2011, 02:39 AM
Wade, Eric Gordon, Jeremy Lin from summer league lol

imbtyler
04-20-2011, 02:51 AM
I've also been a fan of Vince Carter since I can remember. He had so much athleticism back in the day, and he's still decently spry in his age. And he jumped over Fred Weis. I kind of hope for Paul George to become a sized-up, high-defense VC. I could see it happening.

KingGeorge
04-20-2011, 03:09 AM
I've also been a fan of Vince Carter since I can remember. He had so much athleticism back in the day, and he's still decently spry in his age. And he jumped over Fred Weis. I kind of hope for Paul George to become a sized-up, high-defense VC. I could see it happening.

I love VC!

I remember when I was younger I had the purple Raptors jersey.

CooperManning
04-20-2011, 04:03 AM
On a "I wish this guy was a Pacer" level? Serge Ibaka.

On a "I love watching him play" level? Kobe.

On a "I want him to win a championship sometime" level? Dirk.

On a "This guy loves basketball so much that I have to love him" level? KG and pretty much the rest of the Celtics.

D0NT SH0OT ME
04-20-2011, 04:08 AM
Derek Fisher - He knows his role, embraces it, and always brings his best every night. Not to mention he is an extremely charitable human being.

Steve Nash - Has to be one of the greatest PG's ever, but doesn't have the all about me attitude most superstars today have.

Lebron James - I had always liked Lebron, but he didn't become one of my favorite players until after the "decision". What people seem to conveniently forget is that the only reason he agreed to the special was because a large majority of the proceeds from the event went to charity. Hell the thing was filmed in a Boy's and Girls Club of America. I also loved his response to all the hate in his Nike commercial Rise.

mattie
04-20-2011, 04:37 AM
ok, so once again, (shocking) I'm blacked out drunk so not only is there a chance I won't remember this, it probably won't make any sense. I'm sure I'll get ridiculed. But **** it. I'll try to make sense bourbon be damned.

But Wade, he's my favorite non-Pacer for several reasons...

First I believe he's slightly underappreciated. And I'll say this, Wade is appreciated for a great player he always will be. So it is not as if this is a grave injustice. The guy obviously gets love.

What I'm speaking of is my own belief that vast public doesn't realize how good he really is.

See the general public would say Kobe is the greatest player alive today followed by Lebron and Howard. I'd say Lebron is the best and Wade is an easy second.

While Wade is very cocky, just like every great player, but when I watch him I feel like Wade has always tried to prove it on the court. He's not a talker, once it is game time, Wade has a killer instinct unlike any other besides Rose today, and MJ prior to that.

I've always had a problem with Kobe because it has always as if the guy is ok with losing so long as people consider him better than Jordan. He never passes in the crunch time, and statistics reflect this. Statistically, in tight games, the Lakers flounder slightly below average. Kobe statistically is one of the poorest shooters in the clutch. He's also one of the worst passers, reflecting my belief he values public adoration rather than winning.

But this is why I love Wade. the guy, when it has mattered the most has destroyed teams in the playoffs. And not in the way that most people say Kobe has. Kobe has a history of jacking up terrible shots, missing them as expected, and then in the rare instances that he has made them, people remember those times and consider him Mr Clutch. Wade has a history of murdering teams single handedly, despite having lesser teams. I love this. Despite his own extremely high esteem. The guy has made it a point to prove it on the basketball court, and if it wasn't with the NBA's insistence on making Kobe the next MJ, people would see this.

I think it is a little unfortunate. Not a big deal in the long run, I mean people recognize Wade's ability. But if we are to be truly reflective, without buying the NBA's hype, other than his couple injury plagued seasons, Wade has clearly been the best two guard in the NBA without question. Every statistic ever recorded also reflects this. It is not just our own eyes observing every play. It's also the statistics! Wade is the type of guy who is ok winning if that means he scores 10 points. Kobe has always been that guy. He cares about stats.

My appreciation of Wade has everything to do with Kobe. See, had most people accepted that Kobe has been exceptional player with obvious flaws in his game, he wouldn't be such a polarizing character. I believe he is polarizing because he's exalted slightly above what he has actually done.

All those people who praise Kobe's exceptional play should at the very least direct that towards Wade, because I personally believe Wade has been that player. He wins. He plays exceptional defense. And not the type of defense that Kobe has been praised for. Kobe has been the Jeter of the NBA. The one who has been praised for defense that he's never played. Wade receives my affection because he defends the best player of the opposing team no matter what, even if that mean there is a possibility he may be beat.

Kobe never does this. First he doesn't have the defensive ability. And second, he'd never risk having his name discredited by being posterized by a great offensive player. Wade's incredible defensive covers up for his own teams flaws... He's a true leader.. Not a diva. I love that, even if he has a massive EGO to go with it. He backs it up 100% with his play.

Dece
04-20-2011, 04:41 AM
My man crush on Chris Paul is undeniable.

ilive4sports
04-20-2011, 04:56 AM
Derek Fisher - He knows his role, embraces it, and always brings his best every night. Not to mention he is an extremely charitable human being.

Steve Nash - Has to be one of the greatest PG's ever, but doesn't have the all about me attitude most superstars today have.

Lebron James - I had always liked Lebron, but he didn't become one of my favorite players until after the "decision". What people seem to conveniently forget is that the only reason he agreed to the special was because a large majority of the proceeds from the event went to charity. Hell the thing was filmed in a Boy's and Girls Club of America. I also loved his response to all the hate in his Nike commercial Rise.

Just an FYI, Jame's camp came up with the idea for the decision and everything that went with it. ESPN is the one who agreed to the terms as James approached them.

BringJackBack
04-20-2011, 06:37 AM
It actually used to be James Posey. Then he got older and he's a real hindrance on the court. I liked how freakishly tall and long he was and his clutchness. Plus if he was put on just a mediocre team he could average 20 ppg, yet he always took the 6th man role and sacrificed for the team.

Now my favorite player is probably Kobe. It's neat seeing him adjust his game as age becomes a factor.

Sollozzo
04-20-2011, 07:29 AM
Mamba

LucasRL13
04-20-2011, 07:57 AM
Flash

Doddage
04-20-2011, 08:30 AM
CP3 and WADE

vnzla81
04-20-2011, 08:31 AM
Nash, Manu and of course Greivis Vasquez :cool:

spreedom
04-20-2011, 08:53 AM
Dirk!!

Trader Joe
04-20-2011, 09:23 AM
How can anyone watch Chris Paul at the height of his powers and not have him on their list?

BRushWithDeath
04-20-2011, 10:12 AM
His father-in-law may be responsible for allowing somebody who brutally murdered two people to go free, but I love watching Lamar Odom play.

CooperManning
04-20-2011, 10:20 AM
Lebron James - I had always liked Lebron, but he didn't become one of my favorite players until after the "decision". What people seem to conveniently forget is that the only reason he agreed to the special was because a large majority of the proceeds from the event went to charity. Hell the thing was filmed in a Boy's and Girls Club of America. I also loved his response to all the hate in his Nike commercial Rise.

PR guys get paid to make people believe stuff like this. "The Decision" was about Lebron's ego, plain and simple. The Boys and Girls Club stuff was a positive PR spin since, you know, he was telling his hometown to F off on national TV and all.

CooperManning
04-20-2011, 10:22 AM
His father-in-law may be responsible for allowing somebody who brutally murdered two people to go free, but I love watching Lamar Odom play.

http://i.imgur.com/E25Wl.png

I think I'll give Lamar a pass.

Basketball Fan
04-20-2011, 11:23 AM
Kobe

However I also enjoy Dirk as well

spazzxb
04-20-2011, 11:47 AM
Kevin Durant

D0NT SH0OT ME
04-20-2011, 01:43 PM
Just an FYI, Jame's camp came up with the idea for the decision and everything that went with it. ESPN is the one who agreed to the terms as James approached them.

So then Lebron was the one who decided to have the event raise money for charity. Another reason to like him.


PR guys get paid to make people believe stuff like this. "The Decision" was about Lebron's ego, plain and simple. The Boys and Girls Club stuff was a positive PR spin since, you know, he was telling his hometown to F off on national TV and all.

And journalists get paid money to make people believe things like this. Yeah, lets treat donating $2.5 million as just a "positive PR spin" because obviously the only motivation was to stroke his ego. Get ****ing real. Fact is that if ESPN had declined to give Lebron and his PR group permission to donate the money raised from advertising the Decision would not have taken place. You have zero proof to support your claim that the Decision was made to stroke Lebron's ego, while I have $2.5 million saying that the Decision was was made as a charitable act. Your emotions are based off assumptions, mine are based off of facts.

Edit: Lebron essentially donated $5 million actually. Nike agreed to match the amount raised from the TV special and donate that as well.

ECKrueger
04-20-2011, 01:58 PM
I love Nash. Also starting to like Dirk more.

michealwilliams4
04-20-2011, 02:27 PM
Eric Gordon and D.J. White are my two favorites. Hope White has found a home in Charlotte, I think he can be a good player at this level.

I also like Brandon Jennings, Nick Young, and Louis Williams. I tend to like high volume chuckers. I don't know why. I wouldn't want any of them as Pacers though. Maybe Jennings if he ever finds a shot.

I've also been a fan of Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah, but I think that'll slowly fade away as these two teams keep playing.

Most of all, I'm just a fan of the young talent in the NBA that's coming up on just about every team. There was a pretty big gap between 1997-2004 where I just couldn't find many new guys worth rooting for. I'm glad that's changing.

PacersFan1991
04-20-2011, 02:29 PM
Durant, Westbrook, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Kevin Love.

Sparhawk
04-20-2011, 02:40 PM
Players I like from other teams

Flash - D Wade
CP3 - Chris Paul
Durant
Westbrook

I'm coming to like Derrick Rose. Dude is pretty amazing.

Used to like Kevin Garnett, but he's a *****ing putz now.

Sparhawk
04-20-2011, 02:41 PM
Nash, Manu and of course Greivis Vasquez :cool:

You should be an Atlanta Braves baseball fan. They are loaded with some good Venezuelans, like my favorite Brave, Martin Prado. :buddies:

Lou Bega
04-20-2011, 02:44 PM
Birdman Chris Andersen.

Will Galen
04-20-2011, 03:03 PM
I couldn't think of any. I even went to NBA.com and ran though their player list and didn't see anyone that I could call a favorite.

I do follow certain players, mostly ex Pacers, but not one of them would I call a favorite.

Basically I just like Pacer players, but not all, some I'm indifferent to. Danny, Roy, and Paul, are steady favorites, but I'm happy when any Pacer is doing well.

vnzla81
04-20-2011, 03:28 PM
You should be an Atlanta Braves baseball fan. They are loaded with some good Venezuelans, like my favorite Brave, Martin Prado. :buddies:

I used to be an Atlanta Braves fan until my idol Andres Galarraga left and Baseball got more boring :)

joeyd
04-20-2011, 03:42 PM
Vince Carter and J.O.

Kemo
04-20-2011, 03:55 PM
His father-in-law may be responsible for allowing somebody who brutally murdered two people to go free, but I love watching Lamar Odom play.



SAY WUT? lol

Was he the lawyer involved in the oj case ?

I thought Kardashian's dad was Bruce Jenner


edited to add.. my bad he is their stepfather

ilive4sports
04-20-2011, 04:09 PM
So then Lebron was the one who decided to have the event raise money for charity. Another reason to like him.



And journalists get paid money to make people believe things like this. Yeah, lets treat donating $2.5 million as just a "positive PR spin" because obviously the only motivation was to stroke his ego. Get ****ing real. Fact is that if ESPN had declined to give Lebron and his PR group permission to donate the money raised from advertising the Decision would not have taken place. You have zero proof to support your claim that the Decision was made to stroke Lebron's ego, while I have $2.5 million saying that the Decision was was made as a charitable act. Your emotions are based off assumptions, mine are based off of facts.

Edit: Lebron essentially donated $5 million actually. Nike agreed to match the amount raised from the TV special and donate that as well.


For starters, LeBron didn't donate a dime. ESPN and Nike donated it all. ESPN was the one getting the ad revenue. And Nike matched their donation. It is because of LeBron that the donations happened, but LeBron didn't donate any of it.

And if ESPN declined, LeBron would have held it on another network. LeBron is a very powerful man and having ESPN in the palm of his hand shows it. He took advantage of it and made it about himself. He definitely stroked his own ego. It wasn't to raise money for charity man. He can do so many things just to raise money. He likes being the center of attention.

I love watching him play, I think he is one of the best talents this league has ever seen. But lets not paint him to be some saint that did the decision for charity.

CooperManning
04-20-2011, 04:42 PM
And journalists get paid money to make people believe things like this.

I assure you I didn't arrive at my opinion by reading an article. Journalists are paid to inform and let the reader decide for themselves. Not sure what kind of anti-journalist agenda you have going on here.


Fact is that if ESPN had declined to give Lebron and his PR group permission to donate the money raised from advertising the Decision would not have taken place.

Actually, that's not a fact. As live4sports pointed out, Lebron would have taken The Decision to another network. ESPN knew The Decision would be a ratings bonanza, which it was, so they took Lebron up on his offer. I assure you other networks wanted The Decision. I work in the entertainment industry and that's how the business works.


You have zero proof to support your claim that the Decision was made to stroke Lebron's ego

What kind of proof do you want me to have for that? Lebron on tape saying, "I was really in love with me at the time so I decided to announce I was going to Miami on national TV"? Sorry. This is a forum and we're all psychoanalyzing athletes on gut feelings, yourself included. I presented my argument objectively because I don't feel it necessary to say "imo" after every statement I make on a forum. I thought that was obvious. If "hard facts" like a charity receiving $2.5 million at the end of the day are all you want to look at when considering Lebron's intentions with The Decision, that's fine. But don't punish the rest of us for thinking critically.

Trophy
04-20-2011, 05:54 PM
Rudy Gay
OJ Mayo
Mike Conley
Eric Gordon
Kevin Durant
Serge Ibaka

Just a few favorites I can name off the top of my head.

naptownmenace
04-20-2011, 06:09 PM
1. DRose
2. Carmelo Anthony
3. Rondo
4. Blake Griffin
5. Manu Ginobilli

BQQ
04-20-2011, 06:11 PM
1.Melo
2.Nash
3.Kobe
4.Dirk
5.Gortat:)

D0NT SH0OT ME
04-20-2011, 07:02 PM
For starters, LeBron didn't donate a dime. ESPN and Nike donated it all. ESPN was the one getting the ad revenue. And Nike matched their donation. It is because of LeBron that the donations happened, but LeBron didn't donate any of it.


Sorry, you are mistaken. Lebron let ESPN air the special in return for the rights to sell half of the advertising. The proceeds from his chunk of advertising ($2.5 million) were donated to the Boys and Girls Club of America.


And if ESPN declined, LeBron would have held it on another network. LeBron is a very powerful man and having ESPN in the palm of his hand shows it. He took advantage of it and made it about himself.

I should have worded this statement better. What I meant to convey is that the decision would not have taken place had Lebron's request to donate to the Boys and Girls Club of America been denied. Lebron realized that that there was tremendous marketing potential surrounding his decision, and yes, he decided to perform a very charitable act by taking advantage of that potential. Also, were you honestly stupid enough to believe a special about one person's free agency decision would be about anything other than that person? Because that is what your last sentence suggests.


He definitely stroked his own ego. It wasn't to raise money for charity man. He can do so many things just to raise money. He likes being the center of attention.

Really, he could have done something else to raise $2.5 million in one hour? Please, enlighten me with your master money raising plan. In fact, the rest of the world might be interested in your plan, because I do not see many one hour events raising more than $5 million for charity these days.


I love watching him play, I think he is one of the best talents this league has ever seen. But lets not paint him to be some saint that did the decision for charity.


So instead you paint him as the devil for no reason other than emotion? What is wrong with you? Whether you believe it was his sole intention or not, he donated $2.5 million to help better the lives of thousands of boys and girls. How can you hate a man for performing such a selfless act?

The truth is that you can believe all you want that he set up the special purely for his ego, but you have zero evidence to base that belief upon. All the facts speak contrary to your belief. I find it sad that such a charitable act has been poisoned due to such baseless hate.


I assure you I didn't arrive at my opinion by reading an article. Journalists are paid to inform and let the reader decide for themselves. Not sure what kind of anti-journalist agenda you have going on here.

And I assure you I didn't arrive at my opinion by listening to some PR rep. Public relations representatives are paid to advise their clients as to how to conduct themselves, and the public is free to interpret that clients conduct for themselves. Not sure what kind of anti-PR agenda you have going on here.

Now that I am done showing how contradictory your statement is, I will explain how it is wrong. Journalists are not paid to “let the reader decide for themselves”. They are paid to influence the opinion of the masses. The notion that journalists are unbiased and write/speak purely in facts is absolutely silly. I would explain further, but as this is completely off topic I will drop the subject.


Actually, that's not a fact. As live4sports pointed out, Lebron would have taken The Decision to another network. ESPN knew The Decision would be a ratings bonanza, which it was, so they took Lebron up on his offer. I assure you other networks wanted The Decision. I work in the entertainment industry and that's how the business works.

Read my response to his statement please. Also, it doesn’t take someone who works in the industry to understand the marketing potential of such an event, don’t act like you have some kind of special qualification.


What kind of proof do you want me to have for that? Lebron on tape saying, "I was really in love with me at the time so I decided to announce I was going to Miami on national TV"?


I want you to stop stating your opinions in the form of facts. ("The Decision" was about Lebron's ego, plain and simple.) This is phrased in the format of a fact, do not act like you were innocently expressing your opinion. Also, my statement was not a request for proof. I pointed out that your opinion was formed in the complete absence of evidence and was based purely on emotion, which as most people know is never a good way to base you beliefs. What you feel is not what you know.


Sorry. This is a forum and we're all psychoanalyzing athletes on gut feelings, yourself included. I presented my argument objectively because I don't feel it necessary to say "imo" after every statement I make on a forum. I thought that was obvious.


It is not necessary to say “imo” in order to present your argument subjectively. Also, I am not using my “gut feelings”, I am using critical thinking skills. Big difference.


If "hard facts" like a charity receiving $2.5 million at the end of the day are all you want to look at when considering Lebron's intentions with The Decision, that's fine. But don't punish the rest of us for thinking critically.

You are not thinking critically though, and that is what I am trying to point out. Your opinion is based off emotion, which evolves in the absence of thought. As I stated before, what you feel is not what you know.

The impression I am getting from both of you is that you believe Lebron is an egomaniac due to him using his fame to raise money for charity. Lets apply this belief to other people. Those people signing autographs? Egomaniacs. Those bands playing for charity? Egomaniacs. Celebrities endorsing charities? Egomaniacs. But you disagree don't you? You do not find these people to be egomaniacs. Why is that? They, like Lebron, are using their fame as a front to draw attention to the cause of their choice. So please, tell me, why do you hold Lebron to a different standard than all other celebrities? I know the answer, but do you?

NapTonius Monk
04-20-2011, 07:18 PM
Ray Allen, Kevin Durant, DWade

Slick Pinkham
04-20-2011, 07:31 PM
high energy /huge effort guys: Ginobili, Kevin Love, Anderson Varejo, Joakim Noah (sorry!), Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Stephan Curry

hard workers/ fundamentally sound: Ray Allen, Tim Duncan

CooperManning
04-20-2011, 07:33 PM
So please, tell me, why do you hold Lebron to a different standard than all other celebrities? I know the answer, but do you?

lol, please enlighten us further.

D0NT SH0OT ME
04-20-2011, 07:49 PM
lol, please enlighten us further.

No response to the rest of the post? Thought so.

Scot Pollard
04-20-2011, 07:53 PM
Brian Scalabrine

LA_Confidential
04-20-2011, 08:06 PM
Kobe and Dirk. (Jordan & Bird):D

CooperManning
04-20-2011, 08:41 PM
No response to the rest of the post? Thought so.

haha, what do you even want me to say in response to that rambling mess in the middle about letting emotions form my opinions? I don't have time for a philosophical debate (you're going to rip me a new one about this, aren't you?), but I'll respond to a few things:

"Public relations representatives are paid to advise their clients as to how to conduct themselves, and the public is free to interpret that clients conduct for themselves. Not sure what kind of anti-PR agenda you have going on here."

That's one way of saying what PR reps do. Another is that they are paid to make their clients look good in the public eye at all costs. I don't have anything against PR reps, I was just saying that your opinion is the product of a successful PR campaign.

"The impression I am getting from both of you is that you believe Lebron is an egomaniac due to him using his fame to raise money for charity. Lets apply this belief to other people. Those people signing autographs? Egomaniacs. Those bands playing for charity? Egomaniacs. Celebrities endorsing charities? Egomaniacs. But you disagree don't you? You do not find these people to be egomaniacs. Why is that? They, like Lebron, are using their fame as a front to draw attention to the cause of their choice. So please, tell me, why do you hold Lebron to a different standard than all other celebrities? I know the answer, but do you?"

You make so many assumptions here, it's ridiculous. Are you trying to say that Lebron is the only celebrity that I think is an egomaniac? Remember that part where I said I worked in the entertainment industry? A large percentage of celebrities are absolutely egomaniacs and I don't hold Lebron to a different standard at all. It's a case by case basis, as it is with everyone. But please, don't say signing autographs is the same thing as starring in a 1-hour special after two months of buildup about where you're going to sign your next contract.

What you don't seem to understand is that unlike yourself, I don't believe The Decision's primary goal was to get money for the Boys and Girls Clubs of America. I think The Decision's primary goal was to make Lebron the spotlight of the (sports) world. I think the Boys and Girls Club was used to make Lebron look like a better guy, so he would have at least some leg to stand on in discussions critiquing "The Decision." Did the Boys and Girls Club benefit from it? Absolutely. Does that mean The Decision happened only because Lebron wanted to raise money for them? No, it doesn't. Lebron could have shot a series of TV ads for the B+G clubs that would raise far more money and awareness than "The Decision".

If you want to rip up everything I've said here and explain why I shouldn't base any of it off of emotions or whatever, feel free. But just know that my opinion here isn't an uncommon one. Is this the first time you've heard anyone call Lebron James an egomaniac? Do you have similar reactions when you hear it from other people or did I strike a particular nerve?

speakout4
04-20-2011, 09:16 PM
These two are past their prime but i always enjoyrf their game

Shawne Marion
Gerald Wallace

D0NT SH0OT ME
04-20-2011, 11:20 PM
haha, what do you even want me to say in response to that rambling mess in the middle about letting emotions form my opinions? I don't have time for a philosophical debate (you're going to rip me a new one about this, aren't you?), but I'll respond to a few things:

Rambling mess? I made one precise point that has been scientifically proven. No philosophical debate here.


"Public relations representatives are paid to advise their clients as to how to conduct themselves, and the public is free to interpret that clients conduct for themselves. Not sure what kind of anti-PR agenda you have going on here."

That's one way of saying what PR reps do. Another is that they are paid to make their clients look good in the public eye at all costs. I don't have anything against PR reps, I was just saying that your opinion is the product of a successful PR campaign.

I thought that by copying your sentence and inserting the other sides argument (I did this twice) you might understand, but that clearly went right over your head. Anyways what I was trying to convey was that making these assumptions about each other do not mean anything. You can assume my opinion was formed by Lebron’s PR team, and I can assume your opinion was formed by the media trying to deface Lebron. Our assumptions do not prove anything other than that we disagree. They hold no water in a debate, so please stop trying to make them.


"The impression I am getting from both of you is that you believe Lebron is an egomaniac due to him using his fame to raise money for charity. Lets apply this belief to other people. Those people signing autographs? Egomaniacs. Those bands playing for charity? Egomaniacs. Celebrities endorsing charities? Egomaniacs. But you disagree don't you? You do not find these people to be egomaniacs. Why is that? They, like Lebron, are using their fame as a front to draw attention to the cause of their choice. So please, tell me, why do you hold Lebron to a different standard than all other celebrities? I know the answer, but do you?"

You make so many assumptions here, it's ridiculous. Are you trying to say that Lebron is the only celebrity that I think is an egomaniac? Remember that part where I said I worked in the entertainment industry? A large percentage of celebrities are absolutely egomaniacs and I don't hold Lebron to a different standard at all. It's a case by case basis, as it is with everyone. But please, don't say signing autographs is the same thing as starring in a 1-hour special after two months of buildup about where you're going to sign your next contract.

I thought this paragraph was rather easily understood. I will try to explain again. When a celebrity signs autographs, they are using their fame to draw attention to themselves. They then use this attention to benefit themselves or others in various means. The example I was trying to describe was a celebrity signing autographs to raise money for a charity. All of the attention is focused on the celebrity, with maybe a little afterthought going towards the charity they are aiding. This is no different than what Lebron did. The only exception is that instead of signing autographs, Lebron announced his free agency decision. The celebrity signing autographs knew people would pay to get his/her signature, and took advantage of that fact in order to aid a charity. Lebron knew people would watch a TV special about his free agency decision, and took advantage of that fact in order to aid a charity. Same goal, different method.

And by the way, the only reason the special was an hour long was to maximize the advertising. Someone who describes themselves as being in the entertainment industry should understand this.


What you don't seem to understand is that unlike yourself, I don't believe The Decision's primary goal was to get money for the Boys and Girls Clubs of America.

I fully understand that you don’t believe the decision’s primary goal was to raise money; from my understanding of what you have posted it seems you do not even believe it to be a secondary goal. Which of course is an utterly baseless assumption.


I think The Decision's primary goal was to make Lebron the spotlight of the (sports) world. I think the Boys and Girls Club was used to make Lebron look like a better guy, so he would have at least some leg to stand on in discussions critiquing "The Decision." Did the Boys and Girls Club benefit from it? Absolutely. Does that mean The Decision happened only because Lebron wanted to raise money for them? No, it doesn't.

Let me get this straight, you are saying that Lebron and his PR team anticipated that an immense amount of criticism would be levied at “the decision”, yet decided to air the special anyways? What sane person would intentionally deface themselves like that?


Lebron could have shot a series of TV ads for the B+G clubs that would raise far more money and awareness than "The Decision".

So your alternative to an event that lasted ONE HOUR and raised $5 million is a series of TV ads that would take weeks to shoot, months to show, thousands of dollars to produce, and millions of dollars to air? After all that money and time invested, there would not even be a guarantee of how much money would be donated and how high awareness would be raised. If I had to choose between the two I would take the $5 million in an hour every single time, and don’t tell me you wouldn’t too.


If you want to rip up everything I've said here and explain why I shouldn't base any of it off of emotions or whatever, feel free. But just know that my opinion here isn't an uncommon one. Is this the first time you've heard anyone call Lebron James an egomaniac? Do you have similar reactions when you hear it from other people or did I strike a particular nerve?

I fully disagree with anyone who believes Lebron is an egomaniac based purely upon the events of “the decision”, not just you. Also it is important to know that I am not just defending Lebron because he is my favorite player, which he isn’t. I would defend just about anyone if they had done the exact same thing. The thing that strikes a chord with me about you specifically is that you describe Kobe Bryant (a man accused of rape who settled the case out of court) as one of your favorite players, while Lebron (whom you believe to be an egomaniac) appears to be one of your least liked.

Kobe – Fact: Accused of rape, settled the case for an undisclosed sum.

Lebron – Opinion: Is an egomaniac.

Who is the villain?

Thoreau87
04-21-2011, 12:48 AM
My fav player... Check the Avatar.

Second fav non Pacer... Lebron.

I've admired his leadership and tenacity ever since I watched him play in HS.

He's so unjustly villainized it is insanse. How anyone can hate someone for a personal decision they have every right to make is beyond me. Don't people have their own lives to live to the fullest? Why can't Lebron capitalize on his brand to it's upmost potential?

It's not like Lebron acted/acts like a man with poor moral fiber. I can't remember him being jealous of a teammate and snitched to the police he was an adulturer, or was accused of rape, or berates his teammates when things get tough, or throw towels on old ladies who want his autograph, or chuck water cups and towels in front of a ball boy just so he can pick them up, or throw your warm ups on a kids face, or demanded a trade when things were bleak instead of playing out his contract, or publicly defaced his front office to the point where his head coach wrote negatively about him in a NYT best seller.

Nope, all he did was give everything he had to Cle over 7 years with one of the worst supporting casts in the history of the NBA (as their record indicates).

Constellations
04-21-2011, 01:13 AM
My fav player... Check the Avatar.

Second fav non Pacer... Lebron.

I've admired his leadership and tenacity ever since I watched him play in HS.

He's so unjustly villainized it is insanse. How anyone can hate someone for a personal decision they have every right to make is beyond me. Don't people have their own lives to live to the fullest? Why can't Lebron capitalize on his brand to it's upmost potential?

It's not like Lebron acted/acts like a man with poor moral fiber. I can't remember him being jealous of a teammate and snitched to the police he was an adulturer, or was accused of rape, or berates his teammates when things get tough, or throw towels on old ladies who want his autograph, or chuck water cups and towels in front of a ball boy just so he can pick them up, or throw your warm ups on a kids face, or demanded a trade when things were bleak instead of playing out his contract, or publicly defaced his front office to the point where his head coach wrote negatively about him in a NYT best seller.

Nope, all he did was give everything he had to Cle over 7 years with one of the worst supporting casts in the history of the NBA (as their record indicates).

His became a villain by leaving Cleveland the way he did. I have no problems with LBJ personally. Just clearing that up.

ThA HoyA
04-21-2011, 01:19 AM
Josh smith
Russel Westbrook

Cherokee
04-21-2011, 01:26 AM
Josh Smith
Eric Gordon
Chris Paul
OJ Mayo
Mike Conley
Kevin Durant
and, apparently in the near future, Josh McRoberts

15th parallel
04-21-2011, 01:26 AM
Favorite active Non-Pacer? Steve Nash and LeBron James.

For Nash, as stated by others he's a likeable guy and just one of the best PGs in his generation.

For James, he takes to much heat here (no pun intended), but he just accomplished what other great players have not done: carrying a weak team to the NBA finals.