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View Full Version : Defending Rose - what has been our most effective approach??



Unclebuck
04-19-2011, 09:28 AM
Last night the Pacers defended Rose many different ways and I thought it was effective at times.

Obviously George defended Rose almost the entire game, but that is not what I am discussing here.

4 different ways and I am curious as to which one you liked the best?

1) Although they only did it probably 3 or 4 times they did double team Rose as soon as he got across halfcourt. I thought it was effective as a surprise tactic, and I would use it again especially at home.

2) Pacers in the 4th quarter especially switched the pick and roll. This did put Granger on Rose and overall I thought this was the least effective strategy. The benefit is that it doesn't get our defense so out of position, but then again if Rose blows right by Danny, it does.
I would only do this again on the very end of game situations.

3) Pacers also trapped Rose in the pick and rolls, I mean a hard trap. You cannot do this with Roy, but I thought it was effective a few times with Tyler, Jeff and I think even Josh. Problem of course if the pacers are not used to doing this, and they aren't really good at coming out of the trap and matching back up.

4) the 4th way was the pacers standard defense, on pick and rolls the big guy hedges. This might be OK quarters 1-3, but in the 4th, I don't think it is good enough.


On the play where Korver got the wide open three late in the 4th. The problem is Tyler came over late after the Pacers waving him over, so the Bulls knew it was coming and it was just too obvious. it did get the ball out of Rose's hands, but AJ did a very poor job of rotating out of the double instead of just sort of filling in the lane he should have been out on Korver. (disclaimer - I probably need to watch that again to make sure it was AJ's fault)

I would probably do our normal defense on pick and rolls for 3 quarters, although on Iso's and transitions, the pacers need to build a wall to keep Rose from getting too deep. But in the fourth I would do a little bit of trapping Rose at midcourt and trapping hard the pick and rolls. And also in the 4th I would if Rose is Iso at the top, I would bring a second defender, to get the ball out of Rose's hands

Liked hearing that Vogel watched the film of the Sixers defending Rose from earlier this season.

Overall I thought the pacers did a better job on him in game #2

Slick Pinkham
04-19-2011, 10:56 AM
I liked the quick hard trap as a change of pace move. The only time it failed was a biggie- the ball rotation inside to Noah then out to Korver for 3. When Korver isn't on the court I would opt for this on occasion, or leave specific instructions not to shade too far off of him.

sobleski
04-19-2011, 11:04 AM
I hated the simple switch putting Danny on rose, I did like the hard trap with Josh/Jeff and paul because there all so active and long. My favorite tactic we used was paul simply sliding under the screen when they set it out by the 3 point line, with the way rose is shootin jumpers so far this series I'm content with a somewhat contested drose jumper as the bulls shot

bellisimo
04-19-2011, 11:10 AM
the simple switch was horrible - that is exactly what the Bulls wanted and we were giving it to them.

I liked the hard traps which we were doing but you can't play that way for a whole game...specially now that the cat is out of the bag...

PR07
04-19-2011, 11:19 AM
The trapping approach was nice. Even though the TNT post-game crew hated it, I also liked having our bigs come out and hedge Rose along with George on screens. It reminded me of Butler's defense. Only change I would make is for the Pacers' to position themselves in a way that forces Noah to take a midrange jumper when he's on the court instead of letting someone like Korver wide open.

Trader Joe
04-19-2011, 11:22 AM
It's easily when we allow George and whoever is guarding Noah to bring a quick hard trap well outside of the 3 point line.

Brad8888
04-19-2011, 11:49 AM
The traps were very effective because the Bulls had little warning that they were coming. Occasional use of them will be effective in an effort to keep them honest offensively, but if they are used frequently they could easily leave us in poor defensive position, especially with Rose having the vision that he does.

Switching up the defense is important in both containing Rose to a small extent, and limiting the Bulls' ability to get into an offensive rhythm. The Pacers are doing an excellent job of that so far.

So, what is the most effective defense against Rose? Making sure to leave Rose in positions where he either has a contested jumper or is forced to drive into traffic with limited passing lanes, and the way to do that varies from one play to the next. In other words, there may not be one best way to defend against Rose as much as there is a goal of limiting him somewhat while gumming up the remainder of the Bulls offensive continuity by concentrating on cutting off passing lanes while attempting to limit Rose's driving lanes somewhat.

NuffSaid
04-19-2011, 11:57 AM
3) Pacers also trapped Rose in the pick and rolls, I mean a hard trap. You cannot do this with Roy, but I thought it was effective a few times with Tyler, Jeff and I think even Josh. Problem of course if the pacers are not used to doing this, and they aren't really good at coming out of the trap and matching back up.
BINGO!!!

This was by far the most effective defensive strategy the Pacers employed against Rose. I think they should do it much more often along with...


4) the 4th way was the pacers standard defense, on pick and rolls the big guy hedges. This might be OK quarters 1-3, but in the 4th, I don't think it is good enough.

If Roy Hibbert or any of our Bigs, i.e., Foster, would stay out on Rose when they hedge against the PnR - just another second or two - and extend their arms to widened the distance he has to manuevery around that would slow Rose down just enough to allow the primary defender, i.e., Paul George, to recovery defensively and force Rose to either pass the ball or take jump shots behind his screener. He hasn't knocked down many shots from the field. So, if you can force him out of his comfort zone which is to get into the heart of the defense and get to the rim, you stand a far better chance of beating the Bulls.


On the play where Korver got the wide open three late in the 4th. The problem is Tyler came over late after the Pacers waving him over, so the Bulls knew it was coming and it was just too obvious. it did get the ball out of Rose's hands, but AJ did a very poor job of rotating out of the double instead of just sort of filling in the lane he should have been out on Korver. (disclaimer - I probably need to watch that again to make sure it was AJ's fault)

I would probably do our normal defense on pick and rolls for 3 quarters, although on Iso's and transitions, the pacers need to build a wall to keep Rose from getting too deep. But in the fourth I would do a little bit of trapping Rose at midcourt and trapping hard the pick and rolls. And also in the 4th I would if Rose is Iso at the top, I would bring a second defender, to get the ball out of Rose's hands

Liked hearing that Vogel watched the film of the Sixers defending Rose from earlier this season.

Overall I thought the pacers did a better job on him in game #2
Agreed on all 3 counts above.

What truly surprises me is that Vogel hasn't gone w/Dahntey Jones in either game. I think his ability to cut through the defense, ala, Quisy-style, can have a dramatic impact. The only players who thus far have been effective for the Pacers in that area are Collison and Granger to a limited extent. Give Danhtey some of either Dunleavy or Georges minutes and you may see the Pacers get to the foul line alot more and some of the Bull's bigs stay on the bench longer.

Hicks
04-19-2011, 12:35 PM
Late the Bulls switched Danny onto Rose with a pick and roll. Is our counter to this going to be having Danny and Paul trap Rose, forcing him to pass, or hesitating long enough for us to switch Paul back onto Rose?

graphic-er
04-19-2011, 12:44 PM
I think what ever got the ball out of Rose's hands the quickest. It was combination of all our tactics. Paul George gave them fits when it came to trying to pass the ball back to Rose. Rose out juked his own teammates multiple times and it resulted in a turnover. I do not understand why we got away from this late in the 4th. Its like all the sudden we just dared Rose to beat us one vs one. I understand the ISO clear out for Rose made the trap distance alot more to cover though.

Trader Joe
04-19-2011, 12:45 PM
Also, I didn't like when we started switching on Rose. I liked it a lot more when we just let George chase. Switching Granger onto Rose seemed to calm Rose down a bit and allow him to make plays.

Since86
04-19-2011, 12:49 PM
I think you gotta have a mixture. They need to do a hard trap, but then fall out of it once George recovers. If the big can force DRose to take a couple of steps backwards, and not just hedge out forcing him sideways, I think that would give George enough time to get through the screen and back into a good defensive position.

Once he's back, Josh/Tyler/Jeff need to retreat and cover their man getting back into a one-on-one situation everywhere.

Rose isn't going to turn the ball over like he did again, and the Pacers shouldn't expect it. If it happens, then gravy, but the focus should be on keeping George in front of him, because his length makes it difficult to drive.

CableKC
04-19-2011, 01:19 PM
While the "tactic" itself can be examined.....but has anyone given some thought to swapping out BRush for Inferno at some point to have him hound DRose?

ChicagoJ
04-19-2011, 01:23 PM
From the bird's eye view I had in Section 324 last night, I found it interesting the way they switched it up. Although, given Rose's production, and also his willingness to distribute the ball when the defense over-commits to him, I'm not sure anything is working all that well.

There were a couple of traps at half court - one off a pick-n-roll, and the other just as he crossed the timeline, that he got himself in trouble but the trouble was only temporary. We're best off if we use Danny, Brandon, Mike, etc. in the trapping role. He's a good enough passer that he just doesn't require much daylight to pass, either.

I thought Brandon did a better job on him one-on-one than Paul did. Paul's length may have taken away the jumper, but Paul isn't quick enough to take away the dribble penetration. I'd rather he shoot jumpers than drive into the lane. Brandon's size and quickness are a better fit at taking away both the dribble penetration and jumper - if anyone can really do it.

This one happened right in front of my seat, and it was a bit unusual in how it unfolded but I liked it. I'm referreing to the defensive play where Rose was holding the ball in front of the Pacers bench ball to set up an isolation play. He was trying to bait the Pacers into a defensive three seconds. At a set time in the shotclock, Tyler came across the lane, fully committed to the double team. When Rose went into his move, the double team was timed perfectly and it came from a place that he couldn't make a pass. However, they tried this again later in the quarter and I think that was the play that led to Korver's three.

Unfortunately, though, the Bulls scored on most of those plays, no matter what the Pacers did. They've got a go-to guy, a closer, and we've got a team full of "second options." Balance isn't going to win many playoff games, but it will keep us in the game so let's acknowledge it for what it is. These are playing out right to the script - our roster full of second options is competitive, but their #1 guy and a bunch of spectators is enough to make the winning plays in crunch time.

Once Rose splits the defense, he's a great finisher at the rim and he hits his FTs. He's like the anti-Ford/ anti-Travis in that situation.

Y'all know I'm not a big fan of Dhantay Jones, but this is exactly the scenario to use him. When DC went down, I told the Bulls fans sitting around me that I expected Dhantay to play some in the second half, but obviously Vogel chose to go with Price and Ford.

I hate to say it, but Mike has been underwhelming so far. I'd think about playing Dhantay instead of Mike because of defense. And like George Karl would do, I'd play Dhantay - as the first sub - with the rest of the starters so he's less likely to hog the ball at the other end of the court.

It was an interesting case study, but UB's leading question assumes there is a impactive (you know I wasn't going to try affective/effective) way to defend Rose. Sometimes, good offense beats great defense.

The best thing to do to Rose is make him work hard on defense. Don't let him take plays off at the defensive end of the court. Price is a nice backup PG, but he's not going to put that kind of pressure on Rose. If Collison can get back onto the court (and he really hobbled back into the tunnel after trying to warm up at halftime), we've got to run more pick-and-rolls so that DC's speed puts pressure on Rose at the other end of the court.

Our inability to defend Rose isn't the reason we're down 0-2. Our inability to counterpunch with a similar quality playmaker is the reason we're down 0-2. Meanwhile, variety is the best approach as he will eventually break down whatever we throw at him.

Sollozzo
04-19-2011, 01:35 PM
Wow, a ChicagoJ sighting! I was hoping you'd come back for this series.

CableKC
04-19-2011, 01:38 PM
Wow, a ChicagoJ sighting! I was hoping you'd come back for this series unscathed.
Fixed...after hearing about the douche-baggery of some Bulls fans and their treatment of Pacer fans....hopefully ChicagoJ didn't have to deal with any of that garbage.

Sollozzo
04-19-2011, 01:43 PM
Our inability to defend Rose isn't the reason we're down 0-2. Our inability to counterpunch with a similar quality playmaker is the reason we're down 0-2. Meanwhile, variety is the best approach as he will eventually break down whatever we throw at him.


Agreed, and that's why the Bulls won't survive the Celtics/Heat. Both of those teams have multiple players who can counterpunch Rose.

Trader Joe
04-19-2011, 01:44 PM
I thought Dunleavy was ok in game 2 :shrug:

CableKC
04-19-2011, 01:46 PM
I thought Brandon did a better job on him one-on-one than Paul did. Paul's length may have taken away the jumper, but Paul isn't quick enough to take away the dribble penetration. I'd rather he shoot jumpers than drive into the lane. Brandon's size and quickness are a better fit at taking away both the dribble penetration and jumper - if anyone can really do it.

This one happened right in front of my seat, and it was a bit unusual in how it unfolded but I liked it. I'm referreing to the defensive play where Rose was holding the ball in front of the Pacers bench ball to set up an isolation play. He was trying to bait the Pacers into a defensive three seconds. At a set time in the shotclock, Tyler came across the lane, fully committed to the double team. When Rose went into his move, the double team was timed perfectly and it came from a place that he couldn't make a pass. However, they tried this again later in the quarter and I think that was the play that led to Korver's three.

Unfortunately, though, the Bulls scored on most of those plays, no matter what the Pacers did. They've got a go-to guy, a closer, and we've got a team full of "second options." Balance isn't going to win many playoff games, but it will keep us in the game so let's acknowledge it for what it is. These are playing out right to the script - our roster full of second options is competitive, but their #1 guy and a bunch of spectators is enough to make the winning plays in crunch time.

Once Rose splits the defense, he's a great finisher at the rim and he hits his FTs. He's like the anti-Ford/ anti-Travis in that situation.

Y'all know I'm not a big fan of Dhantay Jones, but this is exactly the scenario to use him. When DC went down, I told the Bulls fans sitting around me that I expected Dhantay to play some in the second half, but obviously Vogel chose to go with Price and Ford.

I hate to say it, but Mike has been underwhelming so far. I'd think about playing Dhantay instead of Mike because of defense. And like George Karl would do, I'd play Dhantay - as the first sub - with the rest of the starters so he's less likely to hog the ball at the other end of the court.

It was an interesting case study, but UB's leading question assumes there is a impactive (you know I wasn't going to try affective/effective) way to defend Rose. Sometimes, good offense beats great defense.

The best thing to do to Rose is make him work hard on defense. Don't let him take plays off at the defensive end of the court. Price is a nice backup PG, but he's not going to put that kind of pressure on Rose. If Collison can get back onto the court (and he really hobbled back into the tunnel after trying to warm up at halftime), we've got to run more pick-and-rolls so that DC's speed puts pressure on Rose at the other end of the court.

Our inability to defend Rose isn't the reason we're down 0-2. Our inability to counterpunch with a similar quality playmaker is the reason we're down 0-2. Meanwhile, variety is the best approach as he will eventually break down whatever we throw at him.
At the very least....I'd like to put Inferno in to see how DRose would respond to a more aggressive and quicker defender like Inferno. On top of that, Inferno's offensive game maybe "black hole" like...but he does offer up a different offensive option to throw at the Bulls that may simply change things up since he's more adept at attacking the basket ( something we need to do ) while increasing the chance that we can draw some fouls.

For me...despite the possible chemistry issues that we may have....a small change in pace to see if Inferno's presence can "shake things up" for the positive can help in the 2nd half...especially when we go cold. Of course, if Inferno isn't really effective out there...then pull him...but my guess is that...in small doses....Inferno's veteran Playoff experience and defense could really help during crunch time.

Trader Joe
04-19-2011, 01:53 PM
Agreed, and that's why the Bulls won't survive the Celtics/Heat. Both of those teams have multiple players who can counterpunch Rose.

Oh yeah. If this series has proven anything so far it's that the Bulls got home court during the regular season by playing every regular season game like it was a playoff game. Not because they're the best team in the East.

Dr. Hibbert
04-19-2011, 01:54 PM
Who knows going forward. The biggest thing to me wasn't that the Pacers did something original or new. It was that Vogel came out with a terrific gameplan and his team executed it.

I think Vogel can come up with another good one.

Hicks
04-19-2011, 01:57 PM
I recall Rose driving on George at times, but then I also recall George recovering and forcing Rose to take a bad shot, too. It wasn't like he just blew past him for a bunch of layups. George is good about giving his man enough daylight to make a decision, but then using his length and quickness to contest the shot.

birdsandbats
04-19-2011, 02:37 PM
George was really good on Rose, but as all of us know, no one can take Rose 1v1. Whoever is on their weakest player should be the help or we should go into a zone sometimes. The hard trap is really effective, we need to trap Rose even harder next game the way Boston trapped Wade before LBJ got there. If Deng/Booz/Korver can beat us with Rose playing off the ball, I can live with that.

ChicagoJ
04-19-2011, 03:06 PM
Fixed...after hearing about the douche-baggery of some Bulls fans and their treatment of Pacer fans....hopefully ChicagoJ didn't have to deal with any of that garbage.

Well... I know how to be behave when I go into somebody else's gym. So I didn't have any problems and I didn't expect any.

I had a very pleasant conversation with the Bulls fans around me throughout the game.

There were about a half dozen loudmouths further behind me that cheered like crazy for every Pacers basket in the first quarter. That's only necessary if you're trying to **** off everyone.

Were they chanting "PACERS SUCK!!" at the team/ court or the loudmouths behind me? Probably both. Just as we don't like the way Pistons fans have behaved in our Fieldhouse in the past, not every Pacers fan in the buidling last night gave themselves a good reputation.

The Bulls fans to my right dislike Jeff Foster almost as much as I dislike him. So we got along fine. :D

ChicagoJ
04-19-2011, 03:08 PM
I thought Dunleavy was ok in game 2 :shrug:

Yes, but we need more than "okay", though.

Trader Joe
04-19-2011, 03:11 PM
What'd he have 8 points 4 assists and no turnovers? I actually think that's pretty good. Granted he was beyond terrible in game 1 so maybe it evens out.

ChicagoJ
04-19-2011, 03:25 PM
I recall Rose driving on George at times, but then I also recall George recovering and forcing Rose to take a bad shot, too. It wasn't like he just blew past him for a bunch of layups. George is good about giving his man enough daylight to make a decision, but then using his length and quickness to contest the shot.

Not that I've had time to chart it out (since it was after midnight by the time I got home in the west suburbs... who's idea was it for tipoff to be that late?!?), but Rose was able to penetrate on just about everybody we put against him. Rush and George were probably most useful, but Rose can get to the rim against every one of our perimeter defenders one-on-one. Maybe not Dhantay, so its worth a try. But he can get to the rim against all of our perimeter players that have played so far.

PS, one other thing I really noticed last night, since I had a good view of the Pacers' bench, was just how engaged Dhantay is with his teammates even though he's not part of the gameplan. Cheering, yelling, energetic. He gives the impression he's ready/ prepared. It was also interesting to note that Ford's demeanor on the bench changed when DC limped off the court. I wouldn't say he's sulking, but you know its tough on him to go into the game knowing the only way he'll get involved is due to injury or a foul epedimic. I don't care for the "game" of either of those players but I respect their professionalism.

Anyway, it was really telling that Ford was never matched against Rose defensively. Clearly, the plan is to defend Rose with a 2/3 and not a point. I guess what I'm saying is, we're down 0-2 because Rose has been making plays all game long to keep it close and then he's taking over down the stretch. No matter what we've done it hasn't really worked yet.

Remember the mugging that Scottie Pippen put onto Mark Jackson in the '98 playoffs, especially games #1 and #2 in Chicago? That's we we need to try with Dhantay. Having said that, it only took one Dale Davis pick at MSA to give Jackson a little more breathing room. I think Noah is ready to deliver that type of pick, too.

BPump33
04-19-2011, 03:28 PM
Remember the mugging that Scottie Pippen put onto Mark Jackson in the '98 playoffs, especially games #1 and #2 in Chicago? That's we we need to try with Dhantay. Having said that, it only took one Dale Davis pick at MSA to give Jackson a little more breathing room. I think Noah is ready to deliver that type of pick, too.

The difference there is DD would have ripped Pippen's head off and threw it into the crowd. I think Dahntay could more than hold his own with Pebbles.

ChicagoJ
04-19-2011, 03:36 PM
What'd he have 8 points 4 assists and no turnovers? I actually think that's pretty good. Granted he was beyond terrible in game 1 so maybe it evens out.

I like Mike. I had high hopes for him in this series. But unless he's paired with Korver, there isn't a good matchup for him in this series and through the first two games he's not creating problems for the Bulls' defense with his offense. So then it comes down to this: we don't need his team defense when Rose is breaking us down at will and finding the seam in our rotations. We need our best individual defender. So if there's a player I would pull for Dhantay, its Mike. But maybe back at the Fieldhouse, Mike gets into one of his grooves on offense and then the offense flows better and creates a bunch of easy baskets. Mike played better individually last night (vs. Game #1), but we did not have very many of the easy baskets that he often helps create.

Sookie
04-19-2011, 03:40 PM
What'd he have 8 points 4 assists and no turnovers? I actually think that's pretty good. Granted he was beyond terrible in game 1 so maybe it evens out.

Him and Josh were playing really well for a stretch, in terms of running an offense.

They really play well together.

ChicagoJ
04-19-2011, 03:43 PM
I think Dahntay could more than hold his own with Pebbles.

Pebbles? :laugh:

You know, just because I live here doesn't mean I pay much attention to the local team. So when they put the following tidbits on the big scoreboard last night, they were news to me*:

"Noah's father, Yannick, was the 1983 French Open champion and a member of the International Tennis Hall of Fame mother, Cecilia Rodhe, was Miss Sweden in 1978."

I remember Yannick, but you know what I was thinking: how ugly was Miss Sweden back in '78 to produce him? Kinda ruins my mental picture of Sweden.

* yes, those are right there on his nba.com bio too, but why would I read that about him? He's not a Pacer.

CableKC
04-19-2011, 03:48 PM
PS, one other thing I really noticed last night, since I had a good view of the Pacers' bench, was just how engaged Dhantay is with his teammates even though he's not part of the gameplan. Cheering, yelling, energetic. He gives the impression he's ready/ prepared. It was also interesting to note that Ford's demeanor on the bench changed when DC limped off the court. I wouldn't say he's sulking, but you know its tough on him to go into the game knowing the only way he'll get involved is due to injury or a foul epedimic. I don't care for the "game" of either of those players but I respect their professionalism.
Wow....you can see the bench all the way from whatever section you sitting at ( I presume in the 3rd tier of the arena )?

As for Inferno.....you can see that on TV as well....EVERY possession that led to some turnover when the Bulls raced down to our side of the bench....the very 1st person to stand up and cheer is Inferno. Seriously, watch any play where the Bulls either turn the ball over or forces one....you see Inferno being the 1st one to stand up off the bench and cheering.

CableKC
04-19-2011, 03:54 PM
Pebbles? :laugh:

You know, just because I live here doesn't mean I pay much attention to the local team. So when they put the following tidbits on the big scoreboard last night, they were news to me*:

"Noah's father, Yannick, was the 1983 French Open champion and a member of the International Tennis Hall of Fame mother, Cecilia Rodhe, was Miss Sweden in 1978."

I remember Yannick, but you know what I was thinking: how ugly was Miss Sweden back in '78 to produce him? Kinda ruins my mental picture of Sweden.

* yes, those are right there on his nba.com bio too, but why would I read that about him? He's not a Pacer.
Maybe Joakim got the uglies from his Dad's side of the family....or maybe the "ugly" gene skips one generation ( his parents ) and lands on the kids.

Hicks
04-19-2011, 03:56 PM
Some excellent breakdowns of last night by Sebastian Pruiti over at nbaplaybook.com (with still images and video clips):

http://nbaplaybook.com/2011/04/19/what-happened-on-that-double-team/

http://nbaplaybook.com/2011/04/19/the-pacers-defense-on-derrick-rose/

ChicagoJ
04-19-2011, 04:09 PM
Wow....you can see the bench all the way from whatever section you sitting at ( I presume in the 3rd tier of the arena )?

As for Inferno.....you can see that on TV as well....EVERY possession that led to some turnover when the Bulls raced down to our side of the bench....the very 1st person to stand up and cheer is Inferno. Seriously, watch any play where the Bulls either turn the ball over or forces one....you see Inferno being the 1st one to stand up off the bench and cheering.

300 level (2nd row), baseline/corner, facing the Pacers' bench.

BPump33
04-19-2011, 04:23 PM
Pebbles? :laugh:


Yeah, that's who he reminds me of. I thought it was funny.

Drewtone
04-19-2011, 04:26 PM
Having said that, it only took one Dale Davis pick at MSA to give Jackson a little more breathing room. I think Noah is ready to deliver that type of pick, too.

That was the best pick ever set in the history of organized basketball [\peck]. And it was extra-beautiful because Pippen never saw it coming. I would imagine, though totally legal, that it would be considered a flagrant II in today's wussified game.

Thinking back, Pippen was hand-checking the hell out of Jax, so I'd guess that Dante could do that 5 possessions and then foul out.

ChicagoJ
04-19-2011, 04:39 PM
Thinking back, Pippen was hand-checking the hell out of Jax, so I'd guess that Dante could do that 5 possessions and then foul out.

What you call "handchecking", I call "dryhumping".

Wait... can I say that?

Drewtone
04-19-2011, 04:48 PM
What you call "handchecking", I call "dryhumping".

Wait... can I say that?

True, and I'm trying to think if that was before they called 'handchecking' or they just didn't call it on Pippen. He was practically jumping on him down the court, which was why he never knew Mark was running him right into Dale.